EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

10.12.08

Question Revisited: Is Novell’s OpenSUSE Free Software?

Posted in Free/Libre Software, GNU/Linux, Law, Microsoft, Novell at 9:09 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

EULA raises more questions

We have dealt with this issue before [1, 2, 3, 4, 5], but this discussion returns in light of proprietary software inclusion and a draconian EULA. From LWN:

In other words, redistribution of the openSUSE DVD is not permitted. Members of the openSUSE mirror network are, technically, in violation of the EULA, though nobody appears to be in a hurry to call them on that. But the EULA raises eyebrows and makes some users uncomfortable; many people got into free software to avoid dealing with agreements like that.

[...]

The openSUSE distribution is not distancing itself from proprietary software at this time; it is just reorganizing its management of that software to address one of the problems it brings. But it is still hard to avoid the temptation to read between lines and look forward to a day when openSUSE, too, distributes only free software – not as a result of any sort of push for purity, but just because its users no longer have any need for anything else.

The Novell/Microsoft deal clearly harms OpenSUSE, so why don’t volunteer developers take control of the project, rebrand it, and take it out of Novell’s hand? Dedicated members of the OpenSUSE community actually admit that Novell controls OpenSUSE (many of the members of paid employees). Can a Microsoft partner be trusted near a GNU/Linux distribution? A partner whose relationship tightens all the time and is expected to see collaborations almost tripling fairly soon?

“Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand.”

Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO

“It’s going very well insofar as we originally agreed to co-operate on three distinct projects and now we’re working on nine projects and there’s a good list of 19 other projects that we plan to co-operate on.”

Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO

Microvell

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

31 Comments

  1. AlbertoP said,

    October 12, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Gravatar

    [quote]why don’t volunteer developers take control of the project, rebrand it, and take it out of Novell’s hand? [/quote]

    The answer is really simple: because Novell people is doing a great job with openSUSE. In three years the openSUSE community matured a lot, creating a cooperative environment where Novell’s developers, external contributors and users can easily have a role and work together with common goals, in the interest of openSUSE, Novell, and Linux.
    So, to make it short, openSUSE users and contributors don’t really feel the need of a divisive move like a fork, to have a second choice distribution to add to DistroWatch list. It’s a lot better to work together to achieve the best linux distribution :-)

    Regards,
    A.

  2. xISO_ZWT said,

    October 12, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Gravatar

    Yeah, it’s working at achieving to be the best ‘linux-based’ distro. Of course you couldn’t argue with those semi-commercials in you tube.

  3. AlbertoP said,

    October 12, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Gravatar

    @xISO_ZWT: openSUSE OSS version is pure Linux, exactly as every other distribution, fully GPL compliant. All the non-OSS additions are in the non-OSS repository, quite clearly separated from the OSS one.

    The team is also working to make a fully OSS distribution medium (DVD), to remove the legal need of the EULA, moving all the non-OSS, non redistributable software (flash, adobe reader, …) to a separate, Novell host, repository.

  4. Xanadu said,

    October 12, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Gravatar

    Attack of the double standard, AlbertoP supports Novell’s aggressive fork of OpenOffice because Sun was not open enough according to him. Now that Novell forbids openSUSE redistribution he opposes a fork of openSUSE.

  5. xISO_ZWT said,

    October 12, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Gravatar

    gnewsense is pure Linux.

  6. AlbertoP said,

    October 12, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Gravatar

    [quote]
    Xanadu said,

    Attack of the double standard, AlbertoP supports Novell’s aggressive fork of OpenOffice because Sun was not open enough according to him. Now that Novell forbids openSUSE redistribution he opposes a fork of openSUSE.
    [/quote]

    Probably you didn’t pay attention at my exact sentences, as you didn’t read the openSUSE Eula correctly.

    OpenSUSE OSS can be redistributed without any problem. The EULA refers simply to those packages contained in the non-OSS repository and on the DVD, whose producers (Adobe mainly) do not allow redistribution. This is clearly explained by the EULA. You just need to read it as it is written, instead than interpreting it at your use.

    However, this issue will be fixed, as I wrote already, in openSUSE 11.1, where the DVD will contain only OSS software, making the redistribution possible also for the DVD medium. This has been discussed on openSUSE mailing lists, which you should read before writing so many attacks, just to give value to what you write.

    To conclude, a note about the fork. I said openSUSE users don’t feel that need because they are OK to work together with the openSUSE and Novell development team instead of wasting time with a fork, which would result in a senseless divisive move, with the only purpose of making noise instead than working in the real interest of the users, the distribution and, finally, Linux.
    You don’t think so? Perfect. I agree to disagree. :-)

  7. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 13, 2008 at 1:43 am

    Gravatar

    gnewsense is pure Linux.

    I bet the developers would insist on “GNU”. But either way, they purify the kernel too (no proprietary components).

  8. wajaemue said,

    October 13, 2008 at 2:02 am

    Gravatar

    Just to say I’m angry what personally insulting shit Xanadu writes here and in his other comments. Wash your mouth, boy!

  9. Slashdot User said,

    October 13, 2008 at 3:18 am

    Gravatar

    I have to say I find it fascinating that Roy spends all his time *demanding* that people who post here identify themselves, their employment status and the breed of their cats… except when the comments are in his favour, in which case there’s no issue or interrogation whatsoever. Shills, lurkers and fanboys galore. The more the merrier, it seems.

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 13, 2008 at 3:26 am

    Gravatar

    Not quite. It’s just found to be more suspicious when people come to a Web site only to vilify it. Often enough, once you look deeper, you find that those who criticise the site are Microsoft partners or Novell/OpenSUSE people (AlbertoP, for example, is from OpenSUSE).

  11. pcole said,

    October 13, 2008 at 5:06 am

    Gravatar

    @roy: Doesn’t Debian insists on a non proprietary kernel also?

    @wajaemue: have not read any of xanadu’s comments concerning personal excrement; must have missed that.

    @Slashdot User: have not read any of roy’s comments asking for the breed of their cats; must have missed that also. I think “shills” get paid, therefore, I don’t think that would come to fruition.

  12. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 13, 2008 at 5:17 am

    Gravatar

    @roy: Doesn’t Debian insists on a non proprietary kernel also?

    This was discussed in the IRC channel quite recently.

    In general, the most vocal readers (those who comment) are hecklers, so I don’t dispense their words without a healthy dose of skepticism. Corporate shills in Web sites are a fact, not a theory (we’ve shown plenty of concrete evidence before), but this does not mean that every opposer is a shill. In many ways, shills have given a bad name to genuine and honest critics, but there you go. Some people even tried to label /me/ a shill and claim that PJ is an IBM front. In some sites, people are targeted by groups who wants them silenced or their reputation ruined (so that nobody listens). It’s fierce corporate aggression, some would say bullying.

  13. Xanadu said,

    October 13, 2008 at 8:29 am

    Gravatar

    a senseless divisive move, with the only purpose of making noise instead than working in the real interest of the users, the distribution and, finally, Linux.

    Aw you mean like go-ooo? Of course there’s a difference, holy saint Novell is behind openSUSE so in that case forks are bad, now when holy saint Novell is doing the divisive fork, it is a holy light move for the better of everyone…

    Slashdot user: You are frigging hypocrite, did you notice you are using a nickname as well? Oooh.

    I don’t want to use my real name anymore, I won’t change my mind simply because Roy demands identification from the idiots that come here to defend Novell, I don’t really care about their identification either. I am also not really related to any big company or project so you wouldn’t care at all if you knew my name, right now my name is barely associated to a very small open source project, and I know that if I used my name you idiots will go to spam that project’s blog and also the openSUSE guys would try very hard to prevent it from going to their repos or fork it, so screw you, I won’t identify myself.

  14. Xanadu said,

    October 13, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Gravatar

    Just to say I’m angry what personally insulting shit Xanadu writes here and in his other comments. Wash your mouth, boy!

    Ok the last two days I did these things:
    - I expressed how embarrassing it is that the Novell fan boys would even accept go-ooo, sorry but it is a little pissing off that they would defend Novell even there… Perhaps you got “personally insulted” after the all caps message I typed, sorry but the whole “Novell contributes to free software therefore it is untouchable” argument is bullocks and it is starting to piss me off that they keep using that.
    - Second post “Wow, people truly buy that BS” Yes, the argument I quoted there is BS, this is not a personal insult, it is a comment against the argument itself.
    - “AlexH is an obvious shill”, and do you know what? He is, just see him sticking to go-ooo’s side even after that quote from Simon Phillips… Still no personal insults, just stating facts here.
    - Then in this “article” I pointed out how AlbertoP’s argument was contradicting with the thing he posted in the other thread, and as his reply confirms it, there’s a strong double standard in it.

    So, until the time you made that comment, I did not incur to personal insults, so you were lying, congratulations?

  15. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 13, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Gravatar

    AlexH is not a shill, but he’s on some kind of ‘nitpicking war’ against this Web site because he wants to strip the messengers of their voice. I accept that his hundreds of comments have a high accuracy rate, but his goal is very obvious to see; he hunts for things to argue about and sometimes it’s a tad confrontational.

  16. AlexH said,

    October 13, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Gravatar

    No, I’m not in a “war”. I think there are better targets to pick on than free software projects and I stand up for them, even in the face of software patents.

    Nice that you agree I’m not a shill, although I did notice you called me a troll the other day :P

  17. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 13, 2008 at 10:50 am

    Gravatar

    Nice that you agree I’m not a shill, although I did notice you called me a troll the other day :P

    I did not. I referred collectively to another group.

  18. Balzac said,

    October 13, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Gravatar

    The best response the free software community could do in retaliation to the Microsoft/Novell pact would be to dissolve the SUSE community entirely.

    I would encourage all volunteer contributors of SUSE to defect from that compromised distro and be welcomed into the fold of a distro which has not become a pawn in Microsoft’s attack on all GNU/Linux users.

    Let SUSE go the way of Caldera and Novell will be the next SCO.

  19. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 14, 2008 at 3:15 am

    Gravatar

    @Balzac:

    A Lot of SUSE Developers Left Because of Microsoft/Novell Deal

  20. marbrough said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:22 am

    Gravatar

    Roy, I’ve followed your link expecting to see some shocking numbers like “50% of Novel’s Kernel developers leaving!”. Instead I find another link. That link points to a story about executives who switched companies (such flux happens in all kind of companies all the time). The only actual developers that went notably were some SAMBA-guys who are pretty radical in the views of FOSS. But that’s not ‘many developers’ leaving SUSE.

    So, WHERE ARE the ‘lot of’ developers that left SUSE?

    @Balzac: You wish, pal.

  21. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:27 am

    Gravatar

    It’s not just Samba. We covered many more examples, especially in 2007. This includes SUSE’s top cheerleader (whom I consider|ed a friend). He wrote:

    http://mschlander.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/novell-from-an-opensuse-perspective/#comment-122

    Did you know that I left Novell 11 months ago? I’m not part of the “Novell marketing people” that you seem to think I am. I parted ways with Novell for the very same reasons that you cite about the MS agreement–not its evilness, but the careless disregard for the people that the company never bothered to consult (including me)…

  22. marbrough said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:35 am

    Gravatar

    Martin did some translating and beta-testing; that hardly qualifies as ‘developer’.

    http://news.opensuse.org/2007/08/16/people-of-opensuse-martin-schlander/

  23. marbrough said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:37 am

    Gravatar

    Martin did some translating and beta-testing; that hardly qualifies as ‘developer’ as far as I’m concerned.

    http://news.opensuse.org/2007/08/16/people-of-opensuse-martin-schlander/

  24. frankmiller said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:39 am

    Gravatar

    A cheerleader isn’t a developers, yesno?

  25. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 14, 2008 at 6:43 am

    Gravatar

    Fair enough. Well, a lot of SUSE developers are on a payroll, but I don’t know how many volunteers left.

  26. AlexH said,

    October 14, 2008 at 10:37 am

    Gravatar

    @Roy:

    Sadly, your name calling is on record. You weren’t referring to another group, you were referring to me in the singular.

    And again you propagate this myth that anyone who defends the free software that you attack is somehow defending Microsoft.

  27. Roy Schestowitz said,

    October 14, 2008 at 11:43 am

    Gravatar

    I see now. These things in the IRC channel are written fast and instinctively. I think I was a bit angry at something you said at the time.

  28. honkapontas said,

    October 16, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Gravatar

    Easily build your own openSUSE-based distribution with openSUSE’s Kiwi imaging tools:
    http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/10/16/remastering-opensuse-how-to-build-your-own-opensuse-based-distro/

    Great how-to by Masim Sugianto there!

  29. honkapontas said,

    October 16, 2008 at 1:24 am

    Gravatar

    …and soon even much more easily with openSUSE studio: http://studio.suse.com/

    http://www.susestudio.com/ (currently in alpha-testing phase)

  30. honkapontas said,

    October 16, 2008 at 1:36 am

    Gravatar

    BTW, for weeks now the preparations for the first free elections for openSUSE’s board have been going on. FREE elections for the governing body of openSUSE! If you want to change the direction that openSUSE’s taking become an openSUSE-member and VOTE – or run for the board yourself.

    Writing hate-mails (well, hate-blogs) is not the way we change things in FLOSS.

  31. stevetheFLY said,

    November 26, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Gravatar

    openSUSE: DING-DONG, the EULA’s dead!

    http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/11/26/opensuse-sports-a-new-license-ding-dong-the-eulas-dead/

    No more EULA, only a lincense, based on the wording of Fedora’s license.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

What Else is New


  1. OSI Did Not Guard the Open Source Brand; Now Its Own Name, Open Source Initiative, is Being 'Diluted' and “Open Source” is Almost Meaningless

    The term or the brand “Open Source” is becoming worthless because those who use it typically engage in production of proprietary software falsely marketed as “Open Source” (that's what openwashing is inherently about)



  2. Microsoft is Not an Open Source Authority But an Opponent of Open Source

    Various outlets that are closely connected to Microsoft are trying to convince us that Microsoft is now 'king' of Open Source; nothing could be further from the truth however



  3. Links 22/9/2019: KMyMoney 5.0.7, Lennart's Latest Plan

    Links for the day



  4. Summits of Open Bear Traps: The Open Core Summit and Other 'Open' Events That Actually Attack Software Freedom

    Conferences that call themselves "open" something are sometimes nothing but an attack on openness (not to mention freedom) and promotion of FUD about Free/Open Source software (FOSS); there's an ample set of examples to that effect



  5. Openwashing Report: 'Open Source' Without Any or Most of the Benefits

    The cheapening of the term "Open Source" continues; sooner or later everything out there will be called "open" irrespective of what it really is



  6. Patent Extremism is Not Normal and Not an Innocent Mindset

    Reflection upon the sad state of the European patent system and how media turns a blind eye to it; worldwide, in general, the discussion about patents is being warped by the litigation giants, whose sole goal is to maximise the number of lawsuits/shakedowns (personal gain)



  7. Links 22/9/2019: LLVM 9.0.0 and FreeBSD 12.1 Beta

    Links for the day



  8. Links 21/9/2019: Plasma 5.17 Beta in Kubuntu, Cockpit 203

    Links for the day



  9. IBM Cannot Become a True Friend of Free Software Because of Its Current Patent Policy

    IBM needs to quit bullying people/companies with software patents; that would help towards appeasement of IBM critics and sceptics



  10. When Patent 'Professionals' Sound Like Children Who Learned to Parrot Some Intentionally-Misleading Buzzwords, Myths and Lies

    With buzzwords like "AI" and misleading terms like "IP" the litigation zealots are trying to convince themselves (and the public) that software is a physical thing and a "property" which needs "protecting" from "theft"; it doesn't seem to bother these people that copyright law already covers software



  11. The European Parliament Needs to Become More Outspoken About EPO Abuses

    There are few encouraging signs in Europe right now because the EPO's disregard for patent law (striving to just grant as many patents as possible) earned it much-needed backlash from the European Parliament



  12. Links 19/9/2019: German Federal Ministry of the Interior Wants FOSS, Top Snaps Named

    Links for the day



  13. Buying the Voices of 'Linux' People to Repeat Microsoft's Talking Points While Removing Our Icons and Leaders (Calling Them Sexist)

    The dirty games leveraged by several companies including Microsoft target charismatic people who are essential for morale and leadership; these tactics aren't particularly novel



  14. When the EPO Sees Itself as Above European Law, Grants Patents in Defiance of the EPC (Its Founding Document) and Violates Staff's Labour Rights/Protections (International Law)

    The absurd state of affairs at the EPO has reached the point where laws at every level are being violated and even judges are being threatened or vainly ignored; the EU is belatedly trying to tackle these issues, which have actually cost its credibility a great deal and threaten the perception of Rule of Law at multiple levels



  15. Links 19/9/2019: Samba 4.11.0 and Kubernetes 1.16

    Links for the day



  16. Update on Koch v EPO: Internal Appeals Committee (IAC) Composition Still Likely Illegal

    An important EPO case, concerning a dismissed staff representative, shows what ILO-AT and the EPO's Internal Appeals Committee boil down to



  17. Links 18/9/2019: Fedora Linux 31 Beta, PCLinuxOS 2019.09 Update

    Links for the day



  18. Links 17/9/2019: CentOS 7.7 and Funtoo Linux 1.4 Released

    Links for the day



  19. EPO is Not European

    Internationalists and patent trolls are those who stand to benefit from the 'globalisation' of low-quality and law-breaking patents such as patents on algorithms, nature and life itself; the EPO isn't equipped to serve its original goals anymore



  20. The EPO's Central Staff Committee and SUEPO (Staff Union) Respond to “Fascist Bills” Supported by EPO President António Campinos

    Raw material pertaining to the latest Campinos "scandal"; what Campinos said, what the Central Staff Committee (CSC) said, and what SUEPO said



  21. Storm Brewing in the European Patent Office After a Hot Summer

    Things aren't rosy in EPOnia (to say the least); in fact, things have been getting a lot worse lately, but the public wouldn't know judging by what media tells the public (almost nothing)



  22. Why I Once Called for Richard Stallman to Step Down

    Guest post from the developer who recently authored "Getting Stallman Wrong Means Getting The 21st Century Wrong"



  23. As Richard Stallman Resigns Let's Consider Why GNU/Linux Without Stallman and Torvalds Would be a Victory to Microsoft

    Stallman has been ejected after a lot of intentionally misleading press coverage; this is a dark day for Software Freedom



  24. Links 16/9/2019: GNU Linux-libre 5.3, GNU World Order 13×38, Vista 10 Breaks Itself Again

    Links for the day



  25. Links 16/9/2019: Qt Quick on Vulkan, Metal, and Direct3D; BlackWeb 1.2 Reviewed

    Links for the day



  26. Richard Stallman's Controversial Views Are Nothing New and They Distract From Bill Gates' Vastly Worse Role

    It's easier to attack Richard Stallman (RMS) using politics (than using his views on software) and media focus on Stallman's personal views on sexuality bears some resemblance to the push against Linus Torvalds, which leans largely on the false perception that he is sexist, rude and intolerant



  27. Links 16/9/2019: Linux 5.3, EasyOS Releases, Media Backlash Against RMS

    Links for the day



  28. Openwashing Report on Open Networking Foundation (ONF): When Open Source Means Collaboration Among Giant Spying Companies

    Massive telecommunications oligopolies (telecoms) are being described as ethical and responsible by means of openwashing; they even have their own front groups for that obscene mischaracterisation and ONF is one of those



  29. 'Open Source' You Cannot Run Without Renting or 'Licensing' Windows From Microsoft

    When so-called ‘open source’ programs strictly require Vista 10 (or similar) to run, how open are they really and does that not redefine the nature of Open Source while betraying everything Free/libre software stands for?



  30. All About Control: Microsoft is Not Open Source But an Open Source Censor/Spy and GitHub/LinkedIn/Skype Are Its Proprietary Censorship/Surveillance Tools

    All the big companies which Microsoft bought in recent years are proprietary software and all of the company’s big products remain proprietary software; all that “Open Source” is to Microsoft is “something to control and censor“


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts