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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 24th, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:01 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

PetoKraus schestowitz: it’s not a bad idea though Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus it’s just complete dream Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus “dream” Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus I hope you like orange: http://pk.gjhak.sk/ Jan 24 00:08
schestowitz Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz Wrong! Hackers in the ’70s were the good guys. They modified and improved code as they saw fit for their use or their organization’s use. The emergence of proprietary licenses has disabled this practice. Imagine someone who enjoys to work on cars in his/her garage being told they cannot paint their car or add any horsepower to their engine. GPL does for the software what recipe books do for cooks.” Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz From http://news.cnet.com/8301-1… Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz This might make Digg’s front page as well.. and BN is cited Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz PetoKraus: Organce sucks. Are you a (concerned) client? Jan 24 00:09
PetoKraus :D Jan 24 00:10
schestowitz http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/01/22/… Jan 24 00:13
schestowitz Blogs: 133 million – The number of blogs on the Internet (as tracked by Technorati). Jan 24 00:13
PetoKraus :) i wonder whether it counts mine in Jan 24 00:15
PetoKraus anyway Jan 24 00:15
PetoKraus good night Jan 24 00:15
schestowitz There are probably hundreds of millions, many are spam (fake blogs or splogs run by bots) Jan 24 00:16
schestowitz Anti=FOSS article in embedded.com: “However, with all of the promise, the emerging open mobile ecosystem faces a number of challenges, including security, interoperability and diverging next-generation technologies.” http://www.embedded.com/design/212901998 Jan 24 00:43
schestowitz Whoa! Likewise is from “BELLEVUE”? No wonder it flirts with Microsoft and Novelll.. maybe former Softies.. http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=10… Jan 24 00:46
schestowitz WOT???? ‘Research Consortium and the Open Source Building Alliance (OSBA) at MIT.” http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/dual-perspe… open source buildings????? Jan 24 01:12
schestowitz Great photo of the National Mall: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/01/20/200… Jan 24 01:15
schestowitz Another example of Apple-only ‘open-source’ apps (provided you use proprietary platforms): http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2009/… Jan 24 01:19
schestowitz Windows-only… http://lifehacker.com/5135118/the-guide-… Jan 24 01:21
schestowitz Microsoft Office-only  so-called ‘open source’.. http://uk.sys-con.com/node/813757 Jan 24 01:23
MinceR gn Jan 24 02:32
twitter hi, I’m back Jan 24 02:54
twitter seen the botstorm?  http://blog.networksolutions.com/2009/pote… Jan 24 02:54
*schestowitz looks Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz Ha! Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz That’s what happened yesterday! Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz I checked this to see and there was a DNS resolve laterncy Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz I was going to point this out in IRC Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz They tossed out some rogue nodes, which resolved the issue. Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz Got to love Windows zombie ruining your whole day, having you change the schedule, not being able to work and so on. Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz *zombies Jan 24 02:56
twitter I like the fool, “if the world switches to linux, it will switch to OpenOffice too.” unintentionally prophetic. Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz Microsoft dumps Windows because it needs to peddle Office Jan 24 02:59
schestowitz Office is far more profitable than Wndows… it’s one of the few products from Microsoft that actually makes money (other than servers). Jan 24 02:59
twitter I imagine they strategically “dump” office on large companies, government and education too, with site licensing.  This forces everyone else to buy it at retail. Jan 24 03:06
twitter Don’t like this.  http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009… Jan 24 03:06
schestowitz They grow up and buy it later Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz They target kids Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz Early experiences count. Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz twitter: let YouTube advertise… it’s only fair gives how much RAM, CPU and b/w they gave us all over the years Jan 24 03:08
schestowitz *given Jan 24 03:08
twitter The question is, who decides what’s “illegal” Jan 24 03:09
twitter right now, it’s the big publishers.  they get to decide what to pull at will. Jan 24 03:09
twitter now they get to spam as well as pull. Jan 24 03:09
schestowitz Oh wait Jan 24 03:12
schestowitz I thought it was about ads Jan 24 03:12
twitter it is. Jan 24 03:12
twitter it let’s CBS put CBS ads on top of YouTube videos they think they own. Jan 24 03:13
twitter A YouTube identifier is mentioned but big publishers have DMCA pull rights as it is.  I’m sure they will be happy for YouTube to tell on themselves and make the list longer themselves. Jan 24 03:14
schestowitz Yes, true that Jan 24 03:14
schestowitz I’ll read it later Jan 24 03:15
schestowitz There’s tons of great new for Linux this week Jan 24 03:15
twitter cool Jan 24 03:16
twitter California has 9% unemployment http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/23/news/econ… Jan 24 03:23
schestowitz What was it last year? Jan 24 03:27
twitter 5, 6.  1 in 10 is bad news. Jan 24 03:29
twitter I don’t even like it at 5. Jan 24 03:29
twitter one in 20 people looking for work is a lot. Jan 24 03:30
schestowitz CA has tent cities Jan 24 03:32
twitter yeah, you showed me the videos. Jan 24 03:32
twitter I wonder if 9% is a lie. Jan 24 03:32
schestowitz Too low? Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz Likely. Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz Pres. George Walker said all was OK… spending over $1000 billion in Iraq was affordable Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz [like the lives of hundreds o thousands of kids] Jan 24 03:33
twitter more than 1 million Iraqi dead, 4 thousand US and 4 trillion dollars. Jan 24 03:34
schestowitz 4?? Jan 24 03:35
schestowitz How time flied Jan 24 03:35
schestowitz *lies Jan 24 03:35
twitter I’ve read 3.7 trillion. Jan 24 03:36
twitter need to check to be sure. Jan 24 03:37
twitter http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars) Jan 24 03:40
twitter http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars)” Jan 24 03:40
twitter sorry for the naming scheme Jan 24 03:40
twitter it does not make clean link pastes, but the point is easy to see. Jan 24 03:41
twitter http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comme… Jan 24 03:41
twitter this estimate is a year old and does not take into account health care for veterans. Jan 24 03:43
twitter gotta go.  see you later. Jan 24 03:43
schestowitz Ta Jan 24 03:43
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schestowitz A reader says that “I’m noticing that the MS/Novell shills are increasing in both activity and intensity on all the forums I read.  I gather that they are really planning to undermine FOSDEM.” Jan 24 11:01
schestowitz They are everywhere… talking about “mixed source” and stuff… Jan 24 11:01
schestowitz Intel’s #2 man is quitting: http://www.pcworld.com/article/158230/crai… Jan 24 11:40
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schestowitz Another Noveller? “Quoting BoycottNovell.com as a factual site makes this article suspect and useless. They are a fringe conspiracy group that even FOSS supporters shun.” http://news.cnet.com/8301-135… Jan 24 11:56
schestowitz There’s a whole bunch of them attacking whoever cites us Jan 24 11:57
*oiaohm2 (n=oiaohm@122.159.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell Jan 24 12:22
oiaohm2 Its going to be interesting with MS hate of standards to see what they try to do about QT lib being LGPL and cross platform. Jan 24 12:24
schestowitz Hey Jan 24 12:29
schestowitz How can they affect Qt? Jan 24 12:29
schestowitz Their relationship with Nokia revolves around DRM. Jan 24 12:29
oiaohm2 That is the point.  Are they going to do another java and release like window only extentions for Qt. Jan 24 12:31
schestowitz DRM? Jan 24 12:33
oiaohm2 Nokia really does not have that much to deal with Microsoft. Jan 24 12:33
schestowitz How close are Nokia and MS based on your knowledge? I have my information about it, but maybe you know more. Jan 24 12:33
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/15824… (Microsoft May Owe $8.5B for ‘Vista Capable’ Debacle) Jan 24 12:34
oiaohm2 Basically nothing.   Nokia has completed for years with symbian (Ok the most common mobile phone os) against MS.  Basically they are only barely friendly with Microsoft. Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz I think you are wrong Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz Search BN Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz Hold on. Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz Places to start: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=… Jan 24 12:35
schestowitz The word is spreading: Russia to Develop Linux-based Alternative to Windows? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158262/Russia_to_… > Jan 24 12:36
oiaohm2 Nokia has been about compadiblity with MS products for the simple reason if they have it they can sell more devices.   Now something you are missing here Nokia does not want to have to pay anyone for OS usage either it effects how well they can complete in the market. Jan 24 12:38
oiaohm2 Nokia is no friend of Microsoft when it comes to having to pay Microsoft. Jan 24 12:39
schestowitz Microsoft Postpones Iowa Data Center.. Jan 24 12:39
schestowitz They share some common goals. I don’t trust the,/. Jan 24 12:40
schestowitz *them Jan 24 12:40
oiaohm2 Nokia also shares some common goals with Open Source. Jan 24 12:40
oiaohm2 Yes 100 percent trust in Nokia to do the right thing would be wrong.   Trust that they will do what is good for there bottom line can be trusted. Jan 24 12:41
oiaohm2 Nokia bottom line depends on selling phones. Jan 24 12:41
schestowitz Nokia is still a large private tyranny Jan 24 12:42
schestowitz Its goal was expressed by Ari — a thing I’ll never forget Jan 24 12:42
schestowitz They are willing to play ball with the MAFIAA using the work of volunteers Jan 24 12:43
oiaohm2 Nokia could have kept the most common mobile phone OS closed source.  They could have kept QT GPL.   Logic of open source wins out for there bottom line. Jan 24 12:45
oiaohm2 By allowing others to build applications they improve the OS running on there product making the product more usable and more likely to sell at lower cost to them. Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2 Nokia actions follow what they think will bring them sales. Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2 Supporting MS DRM ideas at the time they though it would increase sales. Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2 Its the one thing about Nokia you can trust.   Profit is there goal from there actions. Jan 24 12:47
oiaohm2 Nokia will not obey MS instruction blindly.   So sometimes they are MS friend sometimes they are Open Source friend sometimes they are netrual all depending on where they can see profit. Jan 24 12:50
schestowitz Nokia is miserable Jan 24 12:50
schestowitz Symbian is growing too slowly Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz iPhone, Blackberry and Pre will give them a hard time, so they just bought Trolltech on thew cheap Jan 24 12:51
oiaohm2 Nokia has recently been submiting code into Linux kernel. Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz I wonder if they even knew at the time what to do with it. Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz With Maemo it gives them FOSS creds Jan 24 12:51
oiaohm2 Something says they know that symbian is dieing. Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz Yes Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz Moving it open source is a PR thing Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2 No matter what Nokia does not want to have to pay for software. Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2 Not exactly PR Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz Keeping the thing selling for a while longer, maybe mixing some code later Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2 Its tail protection for Nokia. Jan 24 12:53
schestowitz THey already hint at using Linux (Maemo + Qt likely) in smartphones Jan 24 12:53
oiaohm2 Nokia is not really a software company. Jan 24 12:53
oiaohm2 Hardware companies have always been more friendly to open source in general. Jan 24 12:54
oiaohm2 Hardware is heavy competion.  If you have to pay for Like a OS that pushes you too expensive your devices will not sell. Jan 24 12:55
oiaohm2 Nokia is more about selling hardware than charging for software. Jan 24 12:55
oiaohm2 Good thing about selling hardware you don’t have to worry about pirates.  Its fairly hard to pirate hardware. Jan 24 12:56
oiaohm2 What apple is doing with the iphone if Nokia copies then we do have a problem. Jan 24 12:57
schestowitz Fair point Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz It’s manufactured in China, right? Jan 24 13:00
oiaohm2 Some of there lines yes. Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz [use the word "pirate" only in reference to sea crime... otherwise "counterfeiting"] Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz China us killing Japan right now. Jan 24 13:01
schestowitz Price-fixing societies are in peril Jan 24 13:01
oiaohm2 Still counterfeiting a phone is still simpler to trace than counteiting software that can be everywhere. Jan 24 13:02
schestowitz I think ushimitsudoki1 is in Japan. Jan 24 13:02
oiaohm2 China is not the only thing killing japan. Jan 24 13:03
schestowitz I know Jan 24 13:03
schestowitz It’s leveling Jan 24 13:04
oiaohm2 Some japan compaines using cheeper labour in near by countries is also killing japan over time. Jan 24 13:04
schestowitz Trouble is, communism rises in Japan too now… Jan 24 13:04
oiaohm2 Its the annoying things have a bad habit of going full circle if left enough time. Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz Sooner or later, China disengages from Japanese feudalism and does its own… Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz Intel is a good example Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz Intellectual monopoly (IP) is artificial barrier Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz Intel chairman Craig Barrett retires Jan 24 13:06
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/23… Jan 24 13:06
oiaohm2 History tells as that in time artifical barriers will break. Jan 24 13:06
schestowitz Yes Jan 24 13:06
oiaohm2 We have just seen in 2008 MS actifical barrier getting cracks. Jan 24 13:07
schestowitz It already ruins hollywood Jan 24 13:08
schestowitz There are laws that are just designed to protect centers of power, laws that are bought  by them. Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz I have some news coming in BN Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz The maximalists (IP advocates) are afraid of us protesters. Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz It was in the news. Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz We call the emperor “naked” Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2 Have you notices something else about 2009. Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz Many things. Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2 Reporters are starting to become reporters again. Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz WIndows is already free (gratis) Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2 Ratting each other out for taking bribes. Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz You can buy $300 ‘laptops’ with Windows that costs just $5 Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz Linux killed MS’ margins. next stage is MS starvation. Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz This leads to economic pressures, layoffs, etc Jan 24 13:11
oiaohm2 The idea that Linux had to get 100 percent market share to kill MS has always been wrong. Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz Then programmes like EDGI can’t last for much longer and people won’t select MS blindly based on omnipotence and long-term support perceptinos. Jan 24 13:11
oiaohm2 All Linux has to do is force MS margins to the point that is not statainable. Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz That too, re:reporting Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz Sarko stands in the way Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz They try to sort of ‘bail out’ the old press Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz Restore propaganda systems Jan 24 13:12
oiaohm2 That needs money. Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz In the UK, laws are passed to gag people and prevent spilling the beans on corruption Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz Well, they spend billions over half a centurty ago Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz Yes, it needs money,, but the business community will happily supply it… Jan 24 13:13
oiaohm2 No propaganda system runs without money. Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz After the War (second), there was a period of years where social democracy prevailed Jan 24 13:13
oiaohm2 Linux forcing MS proft lines down reduces the money they have for propaganda. Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz The business community said it needed “to capture the mind of man” and then they started a massive PR campaign for “capitalism” (wage slavery and such) Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz oiaohm2: yes, that too. They cut outside markeing Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz As trmanco attested yesterday, Microsoft trolling in USENET almost vanished last week Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz It’s as though people were laid off or something. Jan 24 13:14
oiaohm2 Trolling no long that effective. Jan 24 13:15
oiaohm2 People have got wiser and stopping falling for it as often. Jan 24 13:15
oiaohm2 MS got a rude shock from the study by game companies.   That the 5 percent of the game market that is Linux could in effect double the windows sales of the game. Jan 24 13:16
schestowitz Seen “effective evangelism”? Jan 24 13:16
schestowitz It’s all there… the Microsoft Crime Bible Jan 24 13:16
oiaohm2 Its a simple factor of trust. Jan 24 13:16
oiaohm2 Most Linux people were trusted to give people truthful answers were MS trolls were not. Jan 24 13:17
oiaohm2 PR without trust is useless. Jan 24 13:17
schestowitz It’s an oxymoron Jan 24 13:18
schestowitz PR and trust Jan 24 13:18
oiaohm2 Not really.  Cisco systems have been good at it. Jan 24 13:18
schestowitz PR is new-age term for propaganda or corporate deception.. the original term ceased to be used after Goebbels. Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2 MS has trust before Vista. Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2 has/had Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz Cisco and PR? Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2 Ok miss placed trust. Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz That’s sheltering Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz Very often there is the shadow that is government to be used as a scapegoat for people to shout at. Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2 Public releations.  I am using the old term. Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz Underneath the system which degrades right and wages and suppresses organisation of laboour there is another problem altogether. Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2 Cisco PR has always been truthful.   Just they might skip over some key facts. Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz Yes Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz But that’s where people must fill in the gap Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2 So the PR is trusted. Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2 MS made the big bad mistake of doing untrustable PR ie not truthful. Jan 24 13:21
schestowitz IBM and Intel do the same and Intel blew it when it bribes against AMD, strongarmed China and attacked OLPC Jan 24 13:21
schestowitz I look most profoundly at Novell, but many other companies could be treated similarly. Novell’s problem is that it antagonises FOSS principles now. Jan 24 13:22
oiaohm2 Every company does some things wrong. Jan 24 13:23
schestowitz In other words, it’s like the unwanted friend entering your group just to disrupt and make you ensitive to those who want to break you apart. IOW, Novell = turncoat. Jan 24 13:23
schestowitz Novell’s PR expels these perceptions, so as to keep people dumb and trusting. Jan 24 13:23
oiaohm2 Novell PR is double sided. Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz But the Real Novell needs to be exposed for what it is and what it does. It wants to make money by merely exploiting FOSS and tossing out completely all that it calls “religion” Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2 Novell presents PR to MS that is friendly. Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz Like open source to free software. Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2 So that they can get market share. Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz Precisely. Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2 Novell is no real friend to Microsoft either. Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2 If the day every comes that Novell can get the market share without Microsoft Novell will back stab MS so fast its not funny. Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz It’s too dependent Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz .NET and all.. Jan 24 13:25
oiaohm2 And that would be just history repeating. Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz Microsoft is not stupid Jan 24 13:25
trmanco schestowitz, you have dns I see, try OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/ Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz We’re not as stupid as MS needs us to be, but neither is Microsoft (stupid as we hope) Jan 24 13:26
schestowitz trmanco: that problem is resolved now. Jan 24 13:26
oiaohm2 Other companies have though they had Novell were they wanted them too. Jan 24 13:26
trmanco ok Jan 24 13:26
trmanco just in case you DNS gets laggy, make the switch Jan 24 13:26
schestowitz Windows in hospitals… a bad combination http://wamukota.blogspot.com/2009/01/win… Jan 24 13:27
trmanco your* Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz trmanco: thanks, I will Jan 24 13:27
oiaohm2 The effective of the MS Novell deal has also cut into MS bottom line. Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz “The Conficker- aka Downadup-worm http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_153464.htm is attacking Window based platforms at a terrific rate. The worm uses a security breach in the Windows Server Service and although MS issued a patch – MS08-067 – the worm still manages to bypass the patched systems.” Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz Windows literally causes death Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz Where is the press when it comes to covering it Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz I get E-mails saying that they should be prosecuted if damages can be estimated and a bill serves. Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz *ved Jan 24 13:27
oiaohm2 Virus strikes are normally not that well covered. Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz oiaohm2: not really Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz MS-Novell deal = Microsoft makes money from Linux Jan 24 13:28
benJIman Because that would never happen if they were using GNU/Linux O_o Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz It’s a leeching tactic Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz benJIman: hundreds of millions of zombies? Jan 24 13:28
MinceR geekings Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz Self-replicating virus/zombie instances? Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz RPC.. Jan 24 13:29
oiaohm2 It has schestowitz.   Its a double sided effect. Number one MS pays Novell more than Novell has to pay them.   Number two when MS people are selling Suse Linux they sudendly made Linux as a whole a more trustable option. Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz Microsoft doesn’t pay Novell Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz Microsoft helps Novell sell SUSE Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz Why? Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz To replace Free Linux Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz They try to set a ‘satndard’ where Linux is not free Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz Where Linux is a Microsoft cash cow Jan 24 13:30
trmanco schestowitz, look like Asay is your fan now Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2 The agreement between Novell and Microsoft.  Required Microsoft to promote SUSE. Jan 24 13:30
trmanco looks* Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz Annual Free Software Foundation Fundraiser   < http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20090122-00 > Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2 Novell does not have to premote MS products. Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz oiaohm2: I’d rather they didn’t promote SUSE Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz They should promote Free software, not Micro-Novell-ware Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2 How else could you get Linux in front of MS brain washed drones and have them try it. Jan 24 13:31
MinceR how is m$-sold suse more trustable? Jan 24 13:31
MinceR how is anything coming out of m$ trustable? Jan 24 13:31
MinceR have you ever used their products? Jan 24 13:31
oiaohm2 Yes I have used there products.  I know what MS IT drones are like. Jan 24 13:31
schestowitz They could use Ubuntu Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2 If it has MS on it they trust it. Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz SUSE doesn’t have a Microsoft logo on it Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2 If it does not they will not touch it. Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz Ubuntu or Red Hat are recognised names Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz They don’t need a Ballmer collage with a lizard to have them try SuSE Jan 24 13:32
MinceR well, the m$ IT drone i know won’t use it anyway Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2 By places with Linux personal Ubuntu and Redhat are recognised names. Jan 24 13:32
MinceR because he believes GPL is unholy Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz Holy? Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz What is he religious? Jan 24 13:33
MinceR yes, of course Jan 24 13:33
MinceR all m$ cultists are Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz The Microsoftology Church Jan 24 13:33
MinceR their religion is that m$ products are usable and reliable Jan 24 13:33
benJIman schestowitz: If everyone were running linux then most likely. Jan 24 13:33
MinceR they’re like scientologists in their militant ignorance Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/20/sc… Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz Microsoft — the company where Jihad is a commonly used word (internally)… even by the chariman Jan 24 13:34
MinceR give them a source that disproves the bullshit they’re spreading and they’ll either ignore it (not even reading it) or will try to smear the source Jan 24 13:34
schestowitz “Unholy” sources. Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz Must be IDG|MSNBC|Forbes|Motley Fools|.. Jan 24 13:35
oiaohm2 Novell actions have reduced the numbers of MS IT drones.  Of course not some of the die hards. Jan 24 13:35
oiaohm2 Its really ill wind that brings no good. Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz “MS IT drones”? Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz Miguel? Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz Oh, this reminds me to do a Mono post Jan 24 13:36
oiaohm2 Miguel annoying does what ever he to help Novell profits. Jan 24 13:36
oiaohm2 For a long time he got away with it too.   It was always interesting in if there was a SUSE linux release about a week before a gnome release one of Miguel patches would break Gnome yet version in SUSE Linux would be fine. Jan 24 13:37
benJIman O_o Jan 24 13:38
oiaohm2 Novell trys to hold him up as a trustable open source respsentive. Jan 24 13:38
benJIman Miguel hasn’t been working on GNOME directly while SUSE has been owned by Novell. Jan 24 13:38
oiaohm2 Gnome developers woke up to what was going on before Novell took over Novell. Jan 24 13:39
oiaohm2 Oppa Jan 24 13:39
oiaohm2 Suse Jan 24 13:39
benJIman Miguel was (is) nothing todo with suse. Jan 24 13:40
benJIman He came from ximian… Jan 24 13:40
schestowitz So? Jan 24 13:42
schestowitz There is no Ximian anymore Jan 24 13:42
schestowitz Now he just Microsoftises Novell Jan 24 13:42
benJIman So oiaohm2′s miguel-suse conspiracy is amusing. Jan 24 13:42
MinceR they’re in the same company now Jan 24 13:43
MinceR even legally Jan 24 13:43
benJIman And you’re claiming miguel is submitting patches to GNOME that break it in non-suse distributions. Have you even checked what miguel has committed in the last 5 years? Jan 24 13:44
benJIman Of course actually doing any research instead of just inventing elaborate conspiracy theories would be too much effort. Jan 24 13:44
oiaohm2 It was more of a delay benjiman than a break. Jan 24 13:44
benJIman oiaohm2: He’s not even working on GNOME… Jan 24 13:45
oiaohm2 And I did not say it was in the last 5 years either. Jan 24 13:45
benJIman oiaohm2: Before that he had nothing todo with suse. Jan 24 13:46
benJIman Not that he does now really. Jan 24 13:46
schestowitz benJIman: SUSE is a priority at Novell Jan 24 13:49
schestowitz So it’s likely that Novell’s GNOME programmers will adopt a “SUSE first” policy Jan 24 13:49
schestowitz ANything else would be absurd, based on the very definition of a company’s operation Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz Moonlight is easier to install in *SUSE too Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz benJIman: this is no “theory” Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz The onlt “conspiracy” here is real. Novell and Microsoft conspired against many. By the conservative definition of the word “conspiracy”… Jan 24 13:51
benJIman You are changing the subject. Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz How so? Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz You’re tossing insults Jan 24 13:51
benJIman I was referring to oiaohm2′s crazy hypothesis of miguel submitting patches to gnome to break it in non-suse distros. Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz You sound like the mystic sharks from Novell who try to gag reporters Jan 24 13:52
benJIman When miguel is working on mono rather than gnome, and before that had nothing todo with suse. Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz benJIman: oh, that theory is not substantiated. Jan 24 13:52
oiaohm2 I never said breaking non-suse distributions.   It caused delays in the release cycle. Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz That seems plausible but needs proof Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/24/adv… Jan 24 13:53
benJIman How is it plausable? It’s patently false. Jan 24 13:53
benJIman You can go look at the commits for GNOME if you want. Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz Prove it. Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz Whenever someone alleges something, the first question that come to mind is, “is this true?” Jan 24 13:53
benJIman You want me to prove it false, I’m not the one making ludicrous accusations. Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz Show evidence… either side. Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz I asked oiaohm for proof Jan 24 13:54
schestowitz It seems more like an hypothesis than a factual situation.. so gathering of some evidence — even circumstantial — would help. I doubt he just made this up… maybe he overheard it somewhere, so let’s find out Jan 24 13:55
oiaohm2 Note I said interesting.   This is important it was a effect that was happening but without large enough to lay a case against him fully. Jan 24 13:55
benJIman re that blog post, it’s hardly mono’s fault that your distro hasn’t bothered to package moonlight ^_^ Jan 24 13:55
oiaohm2 Remember I was using Linux from 1994 on. Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2 Yes its a hell load of back logs to dig threw. Jan 24 13:56
MinceR don’t they keep saying that it’s illegal to use moonlight anywhere but on suse? Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2 Not exactly MinceR Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2 illegal to redistrubite it. Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2 So download it from Novell and use it fine. Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2 Bundle it in a distribution not fine. Jan 24 13:57
MinceR so that’s why other distros don’t package it. Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2 Yep Jan 24 13:57
MinceR not that i’d want to install that crap anyway. Jan 24 13:57
MinceR if i want bloated, cpu-eating crap on my webpages, i have Adobe Trash for that. Jan 24 13:58
benJIman Which is non-free. Jan 24 13:58
benJIman oiaohm2: That only applies to the version with microsoft’s codecs included. Jan 24 13:58
benJIman The ffmpeg one infringes other people’s patents but not microsoft’s. Jan 24 13:58
oiaohm2 You try using it on sliverlight sites without MS codecs Jan 24 13:59
schestowitz MinceR: yes, the SFLC says so in a way Jan 24 13:59
MinceR benJIman: just like silverlie/moonlie Jan 24 13:59
MinceR what a coincidence! Jan 24 13:59
MinceR except there’s gnash for trash… Jan 24 14:00
benJIman Moonlight is free software. Jan 24 14:00
MinceR “non-redistributable” is not free. Jan 24 14:00
benJIman There are no software patents here, and if there were then silverlight would be the least of my worries. Jan 24 14:00
MinceR sw patent encumbered isn’t free, either. Jan 24 14:00
benJIman As every single piece of software I use probably infringes several software patents. Jan 24 14:00
schestowitz Novell redefines free Jan 24 14:00
trmanco http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2009/01/21… Jan 24 14:00
benJIman MinceR: I doubt you use any software that doesn’t infringe patents. Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz Free-but-patents-encumbered (patents “We acknowledge and pay protection for”) Jan 24 14:01
MinceR benJIman: the way those patent threats are used makes all the difference. Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz Novell’s definitono of FOSS is a superset, a mixes set, poisonware Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz *mise Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz d*mixed Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz Novell’s approach: we separate open and proprietary and SELL you “MIXED SOURCE” Jan 24 14:02
schestowitz This renders GNU/Linux just a niche Jan 24 14:02
schestowitz Novell wants to attach to it a “complement” you must pay for… like Ubuntu Remix Jan 24 14:02
MinceR who must pay for ubuntu remix? Jan 24 14:03
schestowitz I’just just received an E-mail saying: “See what KDE developers tell about FreeDesktop.org: http://dot.kde.org/1232669203/ Freedesktop was abused as a means to politically push Ximian/Novell technologies. With Mono and the like it even gets more dangerous.” Jan 24 14:04
schestowitz Kind of like go-mono? Jan 24 14:04
MinceR worse Jan 24 14:04
schestowitz go-mono.com/… Jan 24 14:05
schestowitz Go-OOXML Jan 24 14:05
schestowitz Whats’ the “go” for? Jan 24 14:05
MinceR wait, i’ve confused go-mono with go-oo Jan 24 14:05
MinceR dunno Jan 24 14:05
MinceR probably mono.com was already taken Jan 24 14:05
MinceR so they’ve gone the lame workaround way Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz Why go-oo? Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz Will there be go-linux? Jan 24 14:06
MinceR because they had go-mono already Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz go-microsoft? Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz go-miguel-go-so! Jan 24 14:06
oiaohm2 Its not like Mono is playing by MS rules either. Jan 24 14:06
MinceR also, OOo was already renamed to match the domain name Jan 24 14:06
oiaohm2 Mono has AOT mode that basically in time will make .net like any other language that can be complied. Jan 24 14:07
MinceR nah, “go-linux” is called “suse” and “opensuse” Jan 24 14:07
MinceR or you mean forking the kernel? Jan 24 14:07
MinceR i doubt they have the resources needed to maintain a fork Jan 24 14:07
MinceR and distro-specific patches tend to be kept as part of the distro Jan 24 14:08
benJIman Most distros have some kernel patches. Ubuntu has a shedload. They’re essentially forks. Jan 24 14:08
MinceR or putting mono in the kernel? i think that’s unlikely Jan 24 14:08
oiaohm2 Not exactly. Jan 24 14:08
MinceR benJIman: i know Jan 24 14:08
benJIman Are you implying ht Novell is putting mono in the kenrel? Jan 24 14:09
MinceR benJIman: i meant a fork that doesn’t follow the mainline anymore Jan 24 14:09
oiaohm2 Ubuntu kernel is a offical branch of the Linux kernel git system like most other distributions kernels. Jan 24 14:09
MinceR benJIman: not implying, just toying with the idea Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz MinceR: Novell is shrinking. It can’t fork anything well. Jan 24 14:09
MinceR looking for explanations of what schestowitz meant by “go-linux” :) Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz Oracle is more likely to fork, but what for? Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz Oracle might fork RHEL, not Linux. Jan 24 14:09
benJIman A free OS like microsoft’s singluarity would be sweet. Jan 24 14:10
benJIman * singularity Jan 24 14:10
oiaohm2 It already exists benJIman Jan 24 14:10
benJIman There’s sharpos etc, not got very far. Jan 24 14:10
schestowitz *me sees benJIman getting a hardon for MS technologies. Jan 24 14:10
MinceR lol Jan 24 14:10
MinceR it’s mandatory for the flock, you see Jan 24 14:11
benJIman Managed code is good. Whether it’s .net or another platform it doesn’t matter too much. Jan 24 14:11
MinceR building an os on managed code seems to be good only for one thing — locking people into a platform Jan 24 14:11
schestowitz Cool: http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2009/01… Jan 24 14:11
MinceR a .net os can only run .net apps, a java os can run only java apps, … Jan 24 14:11
oiaohm2 MS need for a mangle code OS is to complete with Linxu. Jan 24 14:12
benJIman Of course safety, stability, and performance are not important eh MinceR ? Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2 Slightly wrong Jan 24 14:12
benJIman MinceR: That’s ont true. Jan 24 14:12
MinceR benJIman: you don’t need managed code for those Jan 24 14:12
benJIman a .net OS could run any apps. Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2 a java OS and .net OS cannot run the others though translated. Jan 24 14:12
MinceR there’s hardware support to ensure those already Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2 Singlarity cannot run other than .net benJIman Jan 24 14:12
MinceR a managed os only means you’re not taking advantage of them Jan 24 14:12
benJIman MinceR: The majority of the types of vulnerabilities found in linux et al nowadays would not occur in managed code. Jan 24 14:12
benJIman oiaohm2: That doesn’t mean the same applies to any managed OS. Jan 24 14:13
MinceR other vulnerabilities would occur instead. Jan 24 14:13
schestowitz http://opensourcecinema.org/ Jan 24 14:13
oiaohm2 reason singlarity is ment to be cross cpu type. Jan 24 14:13
benJIman MinceR: Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea to avoid the ones we can. Jan 24 14:13
oiaohm2 Linux user space drivers can be writen in anything. Jan 24 14:14
oiaohm2 Most warped so far is a robotic arm controller writen in python. Jan 24 14:14
MinceR well, i guess it would be possible to run managed servers on a microkernel system… Jan 24 14:21
oiaohm2 Main idea is AOT. Jan 24 14:22
oiaohm2 So you still have a mono lithic kernel. Jan 24 14:23
oiaohm2 Difference is that bytecode can be audited on built to the native code of the platform far more effectively than native cpu code. Jan 24 14:23
MinceR what’s AOT? Jan 24 14:23
oiaohm2 Ahead of time processing of bytecode. Jan 24 14:24
MinceR ic Jan 24 14:24
oiaohm2 Yep basicaly bytecode to native code conversion. Jan 24 14:24
oiaohm2 Gcj in gcc has it for java. Jan 24 14:24
MinceR i don’t see why this has to be in the kernel, though Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2 Mono is working on it for .net.   So yes in future a Linux driver written in C# sharp would be possiable. Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2 Just like a java driver in Linux kernel is possiable now. Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2 Yes major ic Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2 Only minorly less ic than ndiswrapper. Jan 24 14:26
oiaohm2 Issue here is going mangled was though to be required for stablity.   Tools are starting to appear that can do all the auditing mangling offered but on native code. Jan 24 14:34
schestowitz What would Novell gain?/ Jan 24 14:36
schestowitz Or its ally, Microsoft? How could they exploit it? Jan 24 14:36
schestowitz Linus has been hard core about C (he mocked C++), so I can see it being marketed to “them” as a ‘better manages code”.. as in, lets make Linus more ‘modular’ (in the object-oriented sense).. the offer Mono. Jan 24 14:37
schestowitz *then ; Linux; Jan 24 14:37
oiaohm2 There are a lot of things that don’t go main line. Jan 24 14:38
oiaohm2 Question is how Linux gains from a mono with aot that can put drivers into Linux kernel.   Same way ndiswrapper gains linux with windows drivers now except for singlarity. Jan 24 14:39
oiaohm2 Not all Novell actions are about the advantage of Microsoft. Jan 24 14:39
MinceR how can you tell? Jan 24 14:41
oiaohm2 Fairly simply.  Does this action help MS long term profit.   AoT really does not.   Since with AoT platforms can now run .net applications without having to licence an .net envorment. Jan 24 14:43
oiaohm2 Reduces .net to nothing more than a development envorment. Jan 24 14:44
MinceR that depends on what they can do with their patent threats Jan 24 14:44
oiaohm2 You cannot patent attack the device maker instead would have to patent attack the developer of application. Jan 24 14:44
MinceR also, isn’t JIT better than AoT? :> Jan 24 14:44
oiaohm2 JiT in some cases produces better performance than AoT but not many. Jan 24 14:45
benJIman Jits can always be faster, have more optimisation options open to them. Jan 24 14:45
oiaohm2 Depends on the optimisation engine benJIman Jan 24 14:45
benJIman That’s why I said can. Jan 24 14:46
benJIman AoT has less information to base its optimisation on. Jan 24 14:46
oiaohm2 Some of the AoT ones are getting able to do the jit  optimisations though code path prediction. Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz oiaohm2: a lot of Novell’s revenue seems to come from Windows and Microsoft Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz Netware… SUSE vouchers, etc. Jan 24 14:46
benJIman For short running things it makes little difference. For long running things like services JIT realy comes into its own. Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz It makes Novell part of the MS ecosystem. Jan 24 14:46
benJIman oiaohm2: Profiling information is not available ahead of time. AoT compilers can’t make “optimistic assumptions” about the programme and then alter the generated code if they turn out to be false. Jan 24 14:47
oiaohm2 Depends what kind of AoT again. Jan 24 14:48
benJIman Nope that information is just not available. Jan 24 14:48
oiaohm2 Its the basic idea you have that polymorphic machine code and AoT cannot mix. Jan 24 14:50
oiaohm2 It really does depend purely on the type of AoT used if or if not it can have more than one path on offer. Jan 24 14:50
benJIman That’s not the same thing at all. Jan 24 14:51
benJIman A JIT compiler generates different machine code at runtime. AoT is just generating different codepaths. Jan 24 14:51
oiaohm2 Funny enough lot of what the JIT is doing is covered by multiable paths. Jan 24 14:52
oiaohm2 Like if function is called with statics solve out so you don’t have  to waste time there. Jan 24 14:53
oiaohm2 It really comes down to the AoT.  Jit advantage is not in speed its size. Jan 24 14:53
benJIman No its really not that sort of thing it does. Look at some of the papers on the optimisations that hotspot does. Jan 24 14:53
*benJIman -> pub. Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2 Read the papers on how portland group complier does things. Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2 You find hotspot and portland basically do the same things. Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2 And get the same speed results. Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2 One is aot one is jit. Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2 Different is portland executable is a lot larger to achive the same things. Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2 There is only a limited numbers of paths though an application. Jan 24 14:56
oiaohm2 Funny enough AoT can beat JiT for a while because a lot of time was spent on profiling before the application was run with AoT,  So basically JiT is playing catch up. Jan 24 14:59
oiaohm2 Idea is mostly a system that can use both perfectly. Jan 24 15:00
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oiaohm2 Lot of jit is faster is put head to head with gcc what is one of the worst optimising C compliers in existance. Jan 24 15:05
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zer0c00l hi room, I have created and maintaining a blog,which apposes an university in india for using proprietary software in education, Can you people give me links on colleges/universities who uses free software to add up information in that blog Jan 24 15:23
zer0c00l *opposes Jan 24 15:23
zer0c00l Mainly they are using M$’s products Jan 24 15:24
zer0c00l here is the blog http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/ Jan 24 15:24
schestowitz Hey Jan 24 15:31
*schestowitz looks Jan 24 15:32
schestowitz Just links relating to education? Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l schools who use free software Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l and their ratings Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l how quality of education improved when they used free software Jan 24 15:34
zer0c00l some popular schools who use free software Jan 24 15:34
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Melio If by stating “I don’t like microsoft”, does this also mean, I don’t want to run opensuse, because of the patents? Jan 24 15:39
Melio I know this comes up alot Jan 24 15:39
Melio the relationship between opensuse and ms Jan 24 15:39
schestowitz opensuse is a more complicated subject Jan 24 15:44
schestowitz But it makes SLE* Jan 24 15:44
schestowitz zer0c00l: in which country? Schools names? Jan 24 15:45
zer0c00l any country… if its india it will be nice Jan 24 15:45
Melio I think i’ll just stay away from opensuse Jan 24 15:45
Melio there’s a ton of users in our lug that run it. but I’m a little aphrensive Jan 24 15:46
zer0c00l schestowitz: yeah Jan 24 15:46
schestowitz I don’t know names. But we definitely need such an index Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz FOSS friendliness in different schools. Jan 24 15:57
zer0c00l ok Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz Melio: try Mandriva. Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz It had both GNOME and KDE. Jan 24 15:57
zer0c00l i read some where in fsf.org … “if you your schools use free software,please report us, we will add them to our list” Jan 24 15:58
schestowitz Yes, that makes sense. Jan 24 15:58
zer0c00l schestowitz: i will check it out Jan 24 15:58
schestowitz I don’t know if such a list exists…. never seen one. Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l ok Jan 24 15:59
schestowitz the FSF site can share rsults of research into it. Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l ok Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l bye see u again… thanks Jan 24 16:00
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schestowitz Hehe! I’m listed here: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/01/… Jan 24 16:00
Melio that’s pretty cool Jan 24 16:02
Melio your a celeb Jan 24 16:02
Melio time to sell t-shirts Jan 24 16:02
Melio don’t get too greedy or anonymous will hack your website Jan 24 16:02
schestowitz crack? Jan 24 16:03
Melio i said hack Jan 24 16:03
Melio don’t get it confused Jan 24 16:03
Melio :P Jan 24 16:03
schestowitz I know. Jan 24 16:03
schestowitz How does one hack a site? Jan 24 16:03
Melio they’re latest is www.dontcuss.com Jan 24 16:04
schestowitz tossing in hundreds of DLL files that are empty? Jan 24 16:04
Melio they claim the website is being used to generate income for the parents Jan 24 16:04
Melio it’s on wikinews.com Jan 24 16:05
Melio http://en.wikinews.org/wi… Jan 24 16:05
Melio sorry. .org Jan 24 16:05
twitter good morning. Jan 24 16:40
twitter nice boot sabotage write up.  I had no idea Vista was as hostile as it is. Jan 24 16:40
twitter I’ll have to update the vista failure log with that information. Jan 24 16:41
twitter one thing to note is that the hand written notes are all contained in brackets {like this}. Jan 24 16:43
twitter The text does not deliver the full emphasis of Mr. Ballmer’s all but animated notation, but most of the meaning is delivered. Jan 24 16:43
schestowitz twitter: thanks. Jan 24 16:43
schestowitz You got lots of the text there. Jan 24 16:44
twitter thank you for collecting the vista boot stories and tying these things together. Jan 24 16:44
schestowitz http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Histor… Jan 24 16:44
schestowitz I reckon BN did about 1 million hits yesterday Jan 24 16:45
twitter the full picture is greater than the sum of it’s parts. Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz I had caching enabled until this morning. Jan 24 16:45
twitter cool Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz Statis don’t mean much anymore when requests are send to coral distributed cache Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz But it’s important that people read it and get informed Jan 24 16:46
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 24 17:04:55 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Jan 24 17:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] Jan 24 17:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 Jan 24 17:04
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Jan 24 17:04
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. Jan 24 17:05
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz Jan 24 17:05
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Jan 24 17:05
schestowitz I needed to restart KDE. Did I miss anything here? Jan 24 17:05
MinceR nope Jan 24 17:05
schestowitz Thanks. Jan 24 17:06
MinceR np Jan 24 17:06
schestowitz I need to get logger_bot up again. Jan 24 17:06
schestowitz twitter: Someone sent this: “I know these are old, but it was what we were given at the time by the “Roadshow” people visiting our site. It has to do with the SSD’s, “http://www.liliputing.com/2008/07/sandisk-wi… http://www.betanews.com/article/SanDisk_wont_s… http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new… Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz s_vista_poor_ssd_performance Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news… (possibly useful to faiilurelog, probably the same with Vista7) Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz Another reader says that “One conclusion about MS begging congress for relaxing the H1b rules is to “get better workers” is that anyone that knows any IT also knows what MS is about and doesn’t want to work there.” Jan 24 17:41
twitter hey, interesting stuff. Jan 24 17:45
schestowitz bbl Jan 24 17:46
twitter I think I got the SSD problems way back when.  SSD burnout is a natural extension of Vista’s crazy indexing system and “ready boost” was cruel joke. Jan 24 17:46
twitter later.  I’ll digest this. Jan 24 17:46
twitter multiboot sabotage was submitted. Jan 24 17:46
twitter http://news.slashdot.org/firehose.pl… Jan 24 17:46
twitter I wonder if it will be picked up or considered so much old news about old news. Jan 24 17:47
twitter maximum pc vendor blame article is gone 404 Jan 24 17:48
twitter “Vista isn’t optimized for solid state disks” was big bullshit spin. Jan 24 17:49
twitter Here’s the write up I did at the time.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/211741 Jan 24 17:51
twitter It’s good to keep this in mind when people talk about Vista and Vista7 on netbooks.  They can’t use SSD unless they fundamentally alter Vista – not going to happen. Jan 24 17:53
twitter Instead, they will look for wasy sabotage SSDs for GNU/Linux, which already has special file systems and ram disk to wear level and reduce access. Jan 24 17:54
twitter Ugh, I hate how they also tried to spin Vista as “full featured” and GNU/Linux as “Simple” Jan 24 17:56
macabe_ Are SSD ideal for random access? Therefore, the need to defrag moot? Jan 24 17:58
PetoKraus umm today i actually feel good at work Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus there was a woman, in her thirties i guess Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus she was like “oh fuck it, i really want to learn how this work, but I can’t/don’t know how to” Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus i told her to wait for a second, I wrote “www.ubuntu.com” on a post it note, and told her, if she has old machine which is not used for much and can’t possibly be screwed much more, then she should visit that page, download the ISO and burn it and play around with it Jan 24 18:07
PetoKraus that it’s the best way to learn Jan 24 18:08
PetoKraus feels so much better now :D Jan 24 18:08
PetoKraus yeah and at the end of the shift there was this linux newbie who tried to fix his corrupted Ubuntu Linux partition by vista recovery cd Jan 24 18:09
PetoKraus oh well :D Jan 24 18:09
twitter macabe:  SSDs are good for random access.  Special file systems avoid extra writes.  I’ve updated the disk thrash listing above and the Vista Failure Log to reflect boot sabotage.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 Jan 24 18:29
twitter Peto, I’m sorry to hear that people reach for the problem to correct the solution.  I wonder what happened to their Ubuntu partition, SP1? Jan 24 18:31
twitter I think Ubuntu makes a separate home partition by default, but it’s a good practice to tell people.  That way they can fix their system by reinstall without wiping their files. Jan 24 18:32
twitter lunch time here, bbl Jan 24 18:32
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schestowitz Turns out I’m told that US unemployment might actually be 17% by old definitions that are comparable with the 1930s Jan 24 20:18
PetoKraus alright guys Jan 24 20:21
PetoKraus time for a whiskey for every ghost Jan 24 20:21
PetoKraus see you later Jan 24 20:21
schestowitz Maybe Windows decided t bite the Ubuntu partition/ partitoon table. Jan 24 20:21
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schestowitz Reader: “Let’s keep finding nuggets to draw to the attention of the press. And tone down the personal remarks, stick to the facts and let others form an opinion as to the values of those who act like MS.” Jan 24 21:14
schestowitz I need your help. All will be published, eventually. Let’s sort and organise thing in the Wiki.. Jan 24 21:15
trmanco “You can buy 2 x 1Tb hard drives and install Linux instead Jan 24 21:27
trmanco of buying the PISTA higher cost versions.” Jan 24 21:27
schestowitz Pista7? Jan 24 21:45
schestowitz “7″ says “PISTA” Jan 24 21:45
trmanco yes it, he is the author of that quote Jan 24 21:53
trmanco forget “it” Jan 24 21:53
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schestowitz trmanco: don’t borrow “windummies” too :-) Jan 24 22:00
trmanco LOL Jan 24 22:02
trmanco and microshaft :-P Jan 24 22:02
*DarkUranium has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jan 24 22:09
*DarkUranium (n=DarkUran@cpe-92-37-80-29.dynamic.amis.net) has joined #boycottnovell Jan 24 22:10
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*r0ver has quit (“Leaving.”) Jan 24 22:22
schestowitz Atheistische Kampagnen weiten sich aus Atheistic campaigns are expanding < http://translate.google.com/transl… > Jan 24 22:32
trmanco typedef int number; Jan 24 22:36
trmanco class microsoft : public corporation, public enemy<(number) 1> { Jan 24 22:36
trmanco public: Jan 24 22:36
trmanco microsoft() Jan 24 22:36
trmanco { Jan 24 22:36
twitter What personal remarks is your reader talking about?  Your summaries are usually correct and you back them with links to crimes.  Sounds like he’s trying to get you to self censor.  Be yourself and you will do the best job you can.  Be someone else and you won’t. Jan 24 22:36
trmanco sanity = 200; Jan 24 22:36
trmanco bill_gates = drop_out(); Jan 24 22:36
trmanco ceo = bill_gates; Jan 24 22:36
trmanco while (sanity > 2) { Jan 24 22:36
trmanco sleep(2); Jan 24 22:36
trmanco sanity–; Jan 24 22:36
trmanco } Jan 24 22:36
trmanco steve_ballmer = new class doofus; Jan 24 22:36
trmanco } Jan 24 22:36
twitter I’m up for organization. Jan 24 22:36
trmanco http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/d… Jan 24 22:36
twitter Comcast screwing competitors and clients through “traffic management” Jan 24 22:45
twitter http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/09/0… Jan 24 22:45
twitter Slashdot is getting it’s groove back http://news.slashdot.org/news/09… Jan 24 22:48
twitter They managed to combine several related stories. Jan 24 22:48
twitter and then they do this flamebait summary.  http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?… Jan 24 22:52
twitter The article itself is interesting, http://www.computerworld.com/action/arti… Jan 24 22:53
twitter the summary makes you think, “what is that ass saying now?!!” Jan 24 22:53
twitter very interesting stuff about git and java Jan 24 22:55
schestowitz Comcast us MS-funded Jan 24 23:01
schestowitz Another cable company that’s with Microsoft did this not so long ago Jan 24 23:02
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-03-2f-2e-32-aa.k1.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovell Jan 24 23:10
schestowitz IBM Confirms Layoffs < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158273/ibm… > Jan 24 23:19
*ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6070-ipad06yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell Jan 24 23:53
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