| PetoKraus |
schestowitz: it’s not a bad idea though |
Jan 24 00:07 |
| PetoKraus |
it’s just complete dream |
Jan 24 00:07 |
| PetoKraus |
“dream” |
Jan 24 00:07 |
| PetoKraus |
I hope you like orange: http://pk.gjhak.sk/ |
Jan 24 00:08 |
| schestowitz |
“ |
Jan 24 00:09 |
| schestowitz |
Wrong! Hackers in the ’70s were the good guys. They modified and improved code as they saw fit for their use or their organization’s use. The emergence of proprietary licenses has disabled this practice. Imagine someone who enjoys to work on cars in his/her garage being told they cannot paint their car or add any horsepower to their engine. GPL does for the software what recipe books do for cooks.” |
Jan 24 00:09 |
| schestowitz |
From http://news.cnet.com/8301-1… |
Jan 24 00:09 |
| schestowitz |
This might make Digg’s front page as well.. and BN is cited |
Jan 24 00:09 |
| schestowitz |
PetoKraus: Organce sucks. Are you a (concerned) client? |
Jan 24 00:09 |
| PetoKraus |
 |
Jan 24 00:10 |
| schestowitz |
http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/01/22/… |
Jan 24 00:13 |
| schestowitz |
Blogs: 133 million – The number of blogs on the Internet (as tracked by Technorati). |
Jan 24 00:13 |
| PetoKraus |
 i wonder whether it counts mine in |
Jan 24 00:15 |
| PetoKraus |
anyway |
Jan 24 00:15 |
| PetoKraus |
good night |
Jan 24 00:15 |
| schestowitz |
There are probably hundreds of millions, many are spam (fake blogs or splogs run by bots) |
Jan 24 00:16 |
| schestowitz |
Anti=FOSS article in embedded.com: “However, with all of the promise, the emerging open mobile ecosystem faces a number of challenges, including security, interoperability and diverging next-generation technologies.” http://www.embedded.com/design/212901998 |
Jan 24 00:43 |
| schestowitz |
Whoa! Likewise is from “BELLEVUE”? No wonder it flirts with Microsoft and Novelll.. maybe former Softies.. http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=10… |
Jan 24 00:46 |
| schestowitz |
WOT???? ‘Research Consortium and the Open Source Building Alliance (OSBA) at MIT.” http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/dual-perspe… open source buildings????? |
Jan 24 01:12 |
| schestowitz |
Great photo of the National Mall: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/01/20/200… |
Jan 24 01:15 |
| schestowitz |
Another example of Apple-only ‘open-source’ apps (provided you use proprietary platforms): http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2009/… |
Jan 24 01:19 |
| schestowitz |
Windows-only… http://lifehacker.com/5135118/the-guide-… |
Jan 24 01:21 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft Office-only so-called ‘open source’.. http://uk.sys-con.com/node/813757 |
Jan 24 01:23 |
| MinceR |
gn |
Jan 24 02:32 |
| twitter |
hi, I’m back |
Jan 24 02:54 |
| twitter |
seen the botstorm? http://blog.networksolutions.com/2009/pote… |
Jan 24 02:54 |
| *schestowitz looks |
Jan 24 02:55 |
| schestowitz |
Ha! |
Jan 24 02:55 |
| schestowitz |
That’s what happened yesterday! |
Jan 24 02:55 |
| schestowitz |
I checked this to see and there was a DNS resolve laterncy |
Jan 24 02:55 |
| schestowitz |
I was going to point this out in IRC |
Jan 24 02:55 |
| schestowitz |
They tossed out some rogue nodes, which resolved the issue. |
Jan 24 02:56 |
| schestowitz |
Got to love Windows zombie ruining your whole day, having you change the schedule, not being able to work and so on. |
Jan 24 02:56 |
| schestowitz |
*zombies |
Jan 24 02:56 |
| twitter |
I like the fool, “if the world switches to linux, it will switch to OpenOffice too.” unintentionally prophetic. |
Jan 24 02:56 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft dumps Windows because it needs to peddle Office |
Jan 24 02:59 |
| schestowitz |
Office is far more profitable than Wndows… it’s one of the few products from Microsoft that actually makes money (other than servers). |
Jan 24 02:59 |
| twitter |
I imagine they strategically “dump” office on large companies, government and education too, with site licensing. This forces everyone else to buy it at retail. |
Jan 24 03:06 |
| twitter |
Don’t like this. http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009… |
Jan 24 03:06 |
| schestowitz |
They grow up and buy it later |
Jan 24 03:07 |
| schestowitz |
They target kids |
Jan 24 03:07 |
| schestowitz |
Early experiences count. |
Jan 24 03:07 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: let YouTube advertise… it’s only fair gives how much RAM, CPU and b/w they gave us all over the years |
Jan 24 03:08 |
| schestowitz |
*given |
Jan 24 03:08 |
| twitter |
The question is, who decides what’s “illegal” |
Jan 24 03:09 |
| twitter |
right now, it’s the big publishers. they get to decide what to pull at will. |
Jan 24 03:09 |
| twitter |
now they get to spam as well as pull. |
Jan 24 03:09 |
| schestowitz |
Oh wait |
Jan 24 03:12 |
| schestowitz |
I thought it was about ads |
Jan 24 03:12 |
| twitter |
it is. |
Jan 24 03:12 |
| twitter |
it let’s CBS put CBS ads on top of YouTube videos they think they own. |
Jan 24 03:13 |
| twitter |
A YouTube identifier is mentioned but big publishers have DMCA pull rights as it is. I’m sure they will be happy for YouTube to tell on themselves and make the list longer themselves. |
Jan 24 03:14 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, true that |
Jan 24 03:14 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll read it later |
Jan 24 03:15 |
| schestowitz |
There’s tons of great new for Linux this week |
Jan 24 03:15 |
| twitter |
cool |
Jan 24 03:16 |
| twitter |
California has 9% unemployment http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/23/news/econ… |
Jan 24 03:23 |
| schestowitz |
What was it last year? |
Jan 24 03:27 |
| twitter |
5, 6. 1 in 10 is bad news. |
Jan 24 03:29 |
| twitter |
I don’t even like it at 5. |
Jan 24 03:29 |
| twitter |
one in 20 people looking for work is a lot. |
Jan 24 03:30 |
| schestowitz |
CA has tent cities |
Jan 24 03:32 |
| twitter |
yeah, you showed me the videos. |
Jan 24 03:32 |
| twitter |
I wonder if 9% is a lie. |
Jan 24 03:32 |
| schestowitz |
Too low? |
Jan 24 03:33 |
| schestowitz |
Likely. |
Jan 24 03:33 |
| schestowitz |
Pres. George Walker said all was OK… spending over $1000 billion in Iraq was affordable |
Jan 24 03:33 |
| schestowitz |
[like the lives of hundreds o thousands of kids] |
Jan 24 03:33 |
| twitter |
more than 1 million Iraqi dead, 4 thousand US and 4 trillion dollars. |
Jan 24 03:34 |
| schestowitz |
4?? |
Jan 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz |
How time flied |
Jan 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz |
*lies |
Jan 24 03:35 |
| twitter |
I’ve read 3.7 trillion. |
Jan 24 03:36 |
| twitter |
need to check to be sure. |
Jan 24 03:37 |
| twitter |
http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars) |
Jan 24 03:40 |
| twitter |
“http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars)” |
Jan 24 03:40 |
| twitter |
sorry for the naming scheme |
Jan 24 03:40 |
| twitter |
it does not make clean link pastes, but the point is easy to see. |
Jan 24 03:41 |
| twitter |
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comme… |
Jan 24 03:41 |
| twitter |
this estimate is a year old and does not take into account health care for veterans. |
Jan 24 03:43 |
| twitter |
gotta go. see you later. |
Jan 24 03:43 |
| schestowitz |
Ta |
Jan 24 03:43 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Jan 24 03:47 |
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 05:54 |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
Jan 24 07:29 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 07:57 |
| schestowitz |
A reader says that “I’m noticing that the MS/Novell shills are increasing in both activity and intensity on all the forums I read. I gather that they are really planning to undermine FOSDEM.” |
Jan 24 11:01 |
| schestowitz |
They are everywhere… talking about “mixed source” and stuff… |
Jan 24 11:01 |
| schestowitz |
Intel’s #2 man is quitting: http://www.pcworld.com/article/158230/crai… |
Jan 24 11:40 |
| *Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-03-2f-2e-32-aa.k1.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz |
Another Noveller? “Quoting BoycottNovell.com as a factual site makes this article suspect and useless. They are a fringe conspiracy group that even FOSS supporters shun.” http://news.cnet.com/8301-135… |
Jan 24 11:56 |
| schestowitz |
There’s a whole bunch of them attacking whoever cites us |
Jan 24 11:57 |
| *oiaohm2 (n=oiaohm@122.159.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 12:22 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its going to be interesting with MS hate of standards to see what they try to do about QT lib being LGPL and cross platform. |
Jan 24 12:24 |
| schestowitz |
Hey |
Jan 24 12:29 |
| schestowitz |
How can they affect Qt? |
Jan 24 12:29 |
| schestowitz |
Their relationship with Nokia revolves around DRM. |
Jan 24 12:29 |
| oiaohm2 |
That is the point. Are they going to do another java and release like window only extentions for Qt. |
Jan 24 12:31 |
| schestowitz |
DRM? |
Jan 24 12:33 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia really does not have that much to deal with Microsoft. |
Jan 24 12:33 |
| schestowitz |
How close are Nokia and MS based on your knowledge? I have my information about it, but maybe you know more. |
Jan 24 12:33 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.pcworld.com/article/15824… (Microsoft May Owe $8.5B for ‘Vista Capable’ Debacle) |
Jan 24 12:34 |
| oiaohm2 |
Basically nothing. Nokia has completed for years with symbian (Ok the most common mobile phone os) against MS. Basically they are only barely friendly with Microsoft. |
Jan 24 12:34 |
| schestowitz |
I think you are wrong |
Jan 24 12:34 |
| schestowitz |
Search BN |
Jan 24 12:34 |
| schestowitz |
Hold on. |
Jan 24 12:34 |
| schestowitz |
Places to start: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=… |
Jan 24 12:35 |
| schestowitz |
The word is spreading: Russia to Develop Linux-based Alternative to Windows? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158262/Russia_to_… > |
Jan 24 12:36 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia has been about compadiblity with MS products for the simple reason if they have it they can sell more devices. Now something you are missing here Nokia does not want to have to pay anyone for OS usage either it effects how well they can complete in the market. |
Jan 24 12:38 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia is no friend of Microsoft when it comes to having to pay Microsoft. |
Jan 24 12:39 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft Postpones Iowa Data Center.. |
Jan 24 12:39 |
| schestowitz |
They share some common goals. I don’t trust the,/. |
Jan 24 12:40 |
| schestowitz |
*them |
Jan 24 12:40 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia also shares some common goals with Open Source. |
Jan 24 12:40 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yes 100 percent trust in Nokia to do the right thing would be wrong. Trust that they will do what is good for there bottom line can be trusted. |
Jan 24 12:41 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia bottom line depends on selling phones. |
Jan 24 12:41 |
| schestowitz |
Nokia is still a large private tyranny |
Jan 24 12:42 |
| schestowitz |
Its goal was expressed by Ari — a thing I’ll never forget |
Jan 24 12:42 |
| schestowitz |
They are willing to play ball with the MAFIAA using the work of volunteers |
Jan 24 12:43 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia could have kept the most common mobile phone OS closed source. They could have kept QT GPL. Logic of open source wins out for there bottom line. |
Jan 24 12:45 |
| oiaohm2 |
By allowing others to build applications they improve the OS running on there product making the product more usable and more likely to sell at lower cost to them. |
Jan 24 12:46 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia actions follow what they think will bring them sales. |
Jan 24 12:46 |
| oiaohm2 |
Supporting MS DRM ideas at the time they though it would increase sales. |
Jan 24 12:46 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its the one thing about Nokia you can trust. Profit is there goal from there actions. |
Jan 24 12:47 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia will not obey MS instruction blindly. So sometimes they are MS friend sometimes they are Open Source friend sometimes they are netrual all depending on where they can see profit. |
Jan 24 12:50 |
| schestowitz |
Nokia is miserable |
Jan 24 12:50 |
| schestowitz |
Symbian is growing too slowly |
Jan 24 12:51 |
| schestowitz |
iPhone, Blackberry and Pre will give them a hard time, so they just bought Trolltech on thew cheap |
Jan 24 12:51 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia has recently been submiting code into Linux kernel. |
Jan 24 12:51 |
| schestowitz |
I wonder if they even knew at the time what to do with it. |
Jan 24 12:51 |
| schestowitz |
With Maemo it gives them FOSS creds |
Jan 24 12:51 |
| oiaohm2 |
Something says they know that symbian is dieing. |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| schestowitz |
Yes |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| schestowitz |
Moving it open source is a PR thing |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| oiaohm2 |
No matter what Nokia does not want to have to pay for software. |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| oiaohm2 |
Not exactly PR |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| schestowitz |
Keeping the thing selling for a while longer, maybe mixing some code later |
Jan 24 12:52 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its tail protection for Nokia. |
Jan 24 12:53 |
| schestowitz |
THey already hint at using Linux (Maemo + Qt likely) in smartphones |
Jan 24 12:53 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia is not really a software company. |
Jan 24 12:53 |
| oiaohm2 |
Hardware companies have always been more friendly to open source in general. |
Jan 24 12:54 |
| oiaohm2 |
Hardware is heavy competion. If you have to pay for Like a OS that pushes you too expensive your devices will not sell. |
Jan 24 12:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
Nokia is more about selling hardware than charging for software. |
Jan 24 12:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
Good thing about selling hardware you don’t have to worry about pirates. Its fairly hard to pirate hardware. |
Jan 24 12:56 |
| oiaohm2 |
What apple is doing with the iphone if Nokia copies then we do have a problem. |
Jan 24 12:57 |
| schestowitz |
Fair point |
Jan 24 13:00 |
| schestowitz |
It’s manufactured in China, right? |
Jan 24 13:00 |
| oiaohm2 |
Some of there lines yes. |
Jan 24 13:00 |
| schestowitz |
[use the word "pirate" only in reference to sea crime... otherwise "counterfeiting"] |
Jan 24 13:00 |
| schestowitz |
China us killing Japan right now. |
Jan 24 13:01 |
| schestowitz |
Price-fixing societies are in peril |
Jan 24 13:01 |
| oiaohm2 |
Still counterfeiting a phone is still simpler to trace than counteiting software that can be everywhere. |
Jan 24 13:02 |
| schestowitz |
I think ushimitsudoki1 is in Japan. |
Jan 24 13:02 |
| oiaohm2 |
China is not the only thing killing japan. |
Jan 24 13:03 |
| schestowitz |
I know |
Jan 24 13:03 |
| schestowitz |
It’s leveling |
Jan 24 13:04 |
| oiaohm2 |
Some japan compaines using cheeper labour in near by countries is also killing japan over time. |
Jan 24 13:04 |
| schestowitz |
Trouble is, communism rises in Japan too now… |
Jan 24 13:04 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its the annoying things have a bad habit of going full circle if left enough time. |
Jan 24 13:05 |
| schestowitz |
Sooner or later, China disengages from Japanese feudalism and does its own… |
Jan 24 13:05 |
| schestowitz |
Intel is a good example |
Jan 24 13:05 |
| schestowitz |
Intellectual monopoly (IP) is artificial barrier |
Jan 24 13:05 |
| schestowitz |
Intel chairman Craig Barrett retires |
Jan 24 13:06 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/23… |
Jan 24 13:06 |
| oiaohm2 |
History tells as that in time artifical barriers will break. |
Jan 24 13:06 |
| schestowitz |
Yes |
Jan 24 13:06 |
| oiaohm2 |
We have just seen in 2008 MS actifical barrier getting cracks. |
Jan 24 13:07 |
| schestowitz |
It already ruins hollywood |
Jan 24 13:08 |
| schestowitz |
There are laws that are just designed to protect centers of power, laws that are bought by them. |
Jan 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz |
I have some news coming in BN |
Jan 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz |
The maximalists (IP advocates) are afraid of us protesters. |
Jan 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz |
It was in the news. |
Jan 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz |
We call the emperor “naked” |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| oiaohm2 |
Have you notices something else about 2009. |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz |
Many things. |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| oiaohm2 |
Reporters are starting to become reporters again. |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz |
WIndows is already free (gratis) |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| oiaohm2 |
Ratting each other out for taking bribes. |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz |
You can buy $300 ‘laptops’ with Windows that costs just $5 |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz |
Linux killed MS’ margins. next stage is MS starvation. |
Jan 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz |
This leads to economic pressures, layoffs, etc |
Jan 24 13:11 |
| oiaohm2 |
The idea that Linux had to get 100 percent market share to kill MS has always been wrong. |
Jan 24 13:11 |
| schestowitz |
Then programmes like EDGI can’t last for much longer and people won’t select MS blindly based on omnipotence and long-term support perceptinos. |
Jan 24 13:11 |
| oiaohm2 |
All Linux has to do is force MS margins to the point that is not statainable. |
Jan 24 13:11 |
| schestowitz |
That too, re:reporting |
Jan 24 13:11 |
| schestowitz |
Sarko stands in the way |
Jan 24 13:12 |
| schestowitz |
They try to sort of ‘bail out’ the old press |
Jan 24 13:12 |
| schestowitz |
Restore propaganda systems |
Jan 24 13:12 |
| oiaohm2 |
That needs money. |
Jan 24 13:12 |
| schestowitz |
In the UK, laws are passed to gag people and prevent spilling the beans on corruption |
Jan 24 13:12 |
| schestowitz |
Well, they spend billions over half a centurty ago |
Jan 24 13:13 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, it needs money,, but the business community will happily supply it… |
Jan 24 13:13 |
| oiaohm2 |
No propaganda system runs without money. |
Jan 24 13:13 |
| schestowitz |
After the War (second), there was a period of years where social democracy prevailed |
Jan 24 13:13 |
| oiaohm2 |
Linux forcing MS proft lines down reduces the money they have for propaganda. |
Jan 24 13:13 |
| schestowitz |
The business community said it needed “to capture the mind of man” and then they started a massive PR campaign for “capitalism” (wage slavery and such) |
Jan 24 13:14 |
| schestowitz |
oiaohm2: yes, that too. They cut outside markeing |
Jan 24 13:14 |
| schestowitz |
As trmanco attested yesterday, Microsoft trolling in USENET almost vanished last week |
Jan 24 13:14 |
| schestowitz |
It’s as though people were laid off or something. |
Jan 24 13:14 |
| oiaohm2 |
Trolling no long that effective. |
Jan 24 13:15 |
| oiaohm2 |
People have got wiser and stopping falling for it as often. |
Jan 24 13:15 |
| oiaohm2 |
MS got a rude shock from the study by game companies. That the 5 percent of the game market that is Linux could in effect double the windows sales of the game. |
Jan 24 13:16 |
| schestowitz |
Seen “effective evangelism”? |
Jan 24 13:16 |
| schestowitz |
It’s all there… the Microsoft Crime Bible |
Jan 24 13:16 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its a simple factor of trust. |
Jan 24 13:16 |
| oiaohm2 |
Most Linux people were trusted to give people truthful answers were MS trolls were not. |
Jan 24 13:17 |
| oiaohm2 |
PR without trust is useless. |
Jan 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz |
It’s an oxymoron |
Jan 24 13:18 |
| schestowitz |
PR and trust |
Jan 24 13:18 |
| oiaohm2 |
Not really. Cisco systems have been good at it. |
Jan 24 13:18 |
| schestowitz |
PR is new-age term for propaganda or corporate deception.. the original term ceased to be used after Goebbels. |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| oiaohm2 |
MS has trust before Vista. |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| oiaohm2 |
has/had |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz |
Cisco and PR? |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| oiaohm2 |
Ok miss placed trust. |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz |
That’s sheltering |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz |
Very often there is the shadow that is government to be used as a scapegoat for people to shout at. |
Jan 24 13:19 |
| oiaohm2 |
Public releations. I am using the old term. |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz |
Underneath the system which degrades right and wages and suppresses organisation of laboour there is another problem altogether. |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| oiaohm2 |
Cisco PR has always been truthful. Just they might skip over some key facts. |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz |
Yes |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz |
But that’s where people must fill in the gap |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| oiaohm2 |
So the PR is trusted. |
Jan 24 13:20 |
| oiaohm2 |
MS made the big bad mistake of doing untrustable PR ie not truthful. |
Jan 24 13:21 |
| schestowitz |
IBM and Intel do the same and Intel blew it when it bribes against AMD, strongarmed China and attacked OLPC |
Jan 24 13:21 |
| schestowitz |
I look most profoundly at Novell, but many other companies could be treated similarly. Novell’s problem is that it antagonises FOSS principles now. |
Jan 24 13:22 |
| oiaohm2 |
Every company does some things wrong. |
Jan 24 13:23 |
| schestowitz |
In other words, it’s like the unwanted friend entering your group just to disrupt and make you ensitive to those who want to break you apart. IOW, Novell = turncoat. |
Jan 24 13:23 |
| schestowitz |
Novell’s PR expels these perceptions, so as to keep people dumb and trusting. |
Jan 24 13:23 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell PR is double sided. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| schestowitz |
But the Real Novell needs to be exposed for what it is and what it does. It wants to make money by merely exploiting FOSS and tossing out completely all that it calls “religion” |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell presents PR to MS that is friendly. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| schestowitz |
Like open source to free software. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
So that they can get market share. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| schestowitz |
Precisely. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell is no real friend to Microsoft either. |
Jan 24 13:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
If the day every comes that Novell can get the market share without Microsoft Novell will back stab MS so fast its not funny. |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
It’s too dependent |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
.NET and all.. |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| oiaohm2 |
And that would be just history repeating. |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft is not stupid |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| trmanco |
schestowitz, you have dns I see, try OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/ |
Jan 24 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
We’re not as stupid as MS needs us to be, but neither is Microsoft (stupid as we hope) |
Jan 24 13:26 |
| schestowitz |
trmanco: that problem is resolved now. |
Jan 24 13:26 |
| oiaohm2 |
Other companies have though they had Novell were they wanted them too. |
Jan 24 13:26 |
| trmanco |
ok |
Jan 24 13:26 |
| trmanco |
just in case you DNS gets laggy, make the switch |
Jan 24 13:26 |
| schestowitz |
Windows in hospitals… a bad combination http://wamukota.blogspot.com/2009/01/win… |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| trmanco |
your* |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
trmanco: thanks, I will |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| oiaohm2 |
The effective of the MS Novell deal has also cut into MS bottom line. |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
“The Conficker- aka Downadup-worm http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_153464.htm is attacking Window based platforms at a terrific rate. The worm uses a security breach in the Windows Server Service and although MS issued a patch – MS08-067 – the worm still manages to bypass the patched systems.” |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
Windows literally causes death |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
Where is the press when it comes to covering it |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
I get E-mails saying that they should be prosecuted if damages can be estimated and a bill serves. |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| schestowitz |
*ved |
Jan 24 13:27 |
| oiaohm2 |
Virus strikes are normally not that well covered. |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
oiaohm2: not really |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
MS-Novell deal = Microsoft makes money from Linux |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| benJIman |
Because that would never happen if they were using GNU/Linux O_o |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
It’s a leeching tactic |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: hundreds of millions of zombies? |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| MinceR |
geekings |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
Self-replicating virus/zombie instances? |
Jan 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz |
RPC.. |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| oiaohm2 |
It has schestowitz. Its a double sided effect. Number one MS pays Novell more than Novell has to pay them. Number two when MS people are selling Suse Linux they sudendly made Linux as a whole a more trustable option. |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft doesn’t pay Novell |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft helps Novell sell SUSE |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
Why? |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
To replace Free Linux |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
They try to set a ‘satndard’ where Linux is not free |
Jan 24 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
Where Linux is a Microsoft cash cow |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| trmanco |
schestowitz, look like Asay is your fan now |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| oiaohm2 |
The agreement between Novell and Microsoft. Required Microsoft to promote SUSE. |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| trmanco |
looks* |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| schestowitz |
Annual Free Software Foundation Fundraiser < http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20090122-00 > |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell does not have to premote MS products. |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| schestowitz |
oiaohm2: I’d rather they didn’t promote SUSE |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| schestowitz |
They should promote Free software, not Micro-Novell-ware |
Jan 24 13:30 |
| oiaohm2 |
How else could you get Linux in front of MS brain washed drones and have them try it. |
Jan 24 13:31 |
| MinceR |
how is m$-sold suse more trustable? |
Jan 24 13:31 |
| MinceR |
how is anything coming out of m$ trustable? |
Jan 24 13:31 |
| MinceR |
have you ever used their products? |
Jan 24 13:31 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yes I have used there products. I know what MS IT drones are like. |
Jan 24 13:31 |
| schestowitz |
They could use Ubuntu |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm2 |
If it has MS on it they trust it. |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| schestowitz |
SUSE doesn’t have a Microsoft logo on it |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm2 |
If it does not they will not touch it. |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| schestowitz |
Ubuntu or Red Hat are recognised names |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| schestowitz |
They don’t need a Ballmer collage with a lizard to have them try SuSE |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| MinceR |
well, the m$ IT drone i know won’t use it anyway |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm2 |
By places with Linux personal Ubuntu and Redhat are recognised names. |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| MinceR |
because he believes GPL is unholy |
Jan 24 13:32 |
| schestowitz |
Holy? |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
What is he religious? |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| MinceR |
yes, of course |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| MinceR |
all m$ cultists are |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
The Microsoftology Church |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| MinceR |
their religion is that m$ products are usable and reliable |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: If everyone were running linux then most likely. |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| MinceR |
they’re like scientologists in their militant ignorance |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/20/sc… |
Jan 24 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft — the company where Jihad is a commonly used word (internally)… even by the chariman |
Jan 24 13:34 |
| MinceR |
give them a source that disproves the bullshit they’re spreading and they’ll either ignore it (not even reading it) or will try to smear the source |
Jan 24 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
“Unholy” sources. |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
Must be IDG|MSNBC|Forbes|Motley Fools|.. |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell actions have reduced the numbers of MS IT drones. Of course not some of the die hards. |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its really ill wind that brings no good. |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
“MS IT drones”? |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
Miguel? |
Jan 24 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, this reminds me to do a Mono post |
Jan 24 13:36 |
| oiaohm2 |
Miguel annoying does what ever he to help Novell profits. |
Jan 24 13:36 |
| oiaohm2 |
For a long time he got away with it too. It was always interesting in if there was a SUSE linux release about a week before a gnome release one of Miguel patches would break Gnome yet version in SUSE Linux would be fine. |
Jan 24 13:37 |
| benJIman |
O_o |
Jan 24 13:38 |
| oiaohm2 |
Novell trys to hold him up as a trustable open source respsentive. |
Jan 24 13:38 |
| benJIman |
Miguel hasn’t been working on GNOME directly while SUSE has been owned by Novell. |
Jan 24 13:38 |
| oiaohm2 |
Gnome developers woke up to what was going on before Novell took over Novell. |
Jan 24 13:39 |
| oiaohm2 |
Oppa |
Jan 24 13:39 |
| oiaohm2 |
Suse |
Jan 24 13:39 |
| benJIman |
Miguel was (is) nothing todo with suse. |
Jan 24 13:40 |
| benJIman |
He came from ximian… |
Jan 24 13:40 |
| schestowitz |
So? |
Jan 24 13:42 |
| schestowitz |
There is no Ximian anymore |
Jan 24 13:42 |
| schestowitz |
Now he just Microsoftises Novell |
Jan 24 13:42 |
| benJIman |
So oiaohm2′s miguel-suse conspiracy is amusing. |
Jan 24 13:42 |
| MinceR |
they’re in the same company now |
Jan 24 13:43 |
| MinceR |
even legally |
Jan 24 13:43 |
| benJIman |
And you’re claiming miguel is submitting patches to GNOME that break it in non-suse distributions. Have you even checked what miguel has committed in the last 5 years? |
Jan 24 13:44 |
| benJIman |
Of course actually doing any research instead of just inventing elaborate conspiracy theories would be too much effort. |
Jan 24 13:44 |
| oiaohm2 |
It was more of a delay benjiman than a break. |
Jan 24 13:44 |
| benJIman |
oiaohm2: He’s not even working on GNOME… |
Jan 24 13:45 |
| oiaohm2 |
And I did not say it was in the last 5 years either. |
Jan 24 13:45 |
| benJIman |
oiaohm2: Before that he had nothing todo with suse. |
Jan 24 13:46 |
| benJIman |
Not that he does now really. |
Jan 24 13:46 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: SUSE is a priority at Novell |
Jan 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz |
So it’s likely that Novell’s GNOME programmers will adopt a “SUSE first” policy |
Jan 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz |
ANything else would be absurd, based on the very definition of a company’s operation |
Jan 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz |
Moonlight is easier to install in *SUSE too |
Jan 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: this is no “theory” |
Jan 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz |
The onlt “conspiracy” here is real. Novell and Microsoft conspired against many. By the conservative definition of the word “conspiracy”… |
Jan 24 13:51 |
| benJIman |
You are changing the subject. |
Jan 24 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
How so? |
Jan 24 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
You’re tossing insults |
Jan 24 13:51 |
| benJIman |
I was referring to oiaohm2′s crazy hypothesis of miguel submitting patches to gnome to break it in non-suse distros. |
Jan 24 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
You sound like the mystic sharks from Novell who try to gag reporters |
Jan 24 13:52 |
| benJIman |
When miguel is working on mono rather than gnome, and before that had nothing todo with suse. |
Jan 24 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: oh, that theory is not substantiated. |
Jan 24 13:52 |
| oiaohm2 |
I never said breaking non-suse distributions. It caused delays in the release cycle. |
Jan 24 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
That seems plausible but needs proof |
Jan 24 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/24/adv… |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| benJIman |
How is it plausable? It’s patently false. |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| benJIman |
You can go look at the commits for GNOME if you want. |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
Prove it. |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
Whenever someone alleges something, the first question that come to mind is, “is this true?” |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| benJIman |
You want me to prove it false, I’m not the one making ludicrous accusations. |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
Show evidence… either side. |
Jan 24 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
I asked oiaohm for proof |
Jan 24 13:54 |
| schestowitz |
It seems more like an hypothesis than a factual situation.. so gathering of some evidence — even circumstantial — would help. I doubt he just made this up… maybe he overheard it somewhere, so let’s find out |
Jan 24 13:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
Note I said interesting. This is important it was a effect that was happening but without large enough to lay a case against him fully. |
Jan 24 13:55 |
| benJIman |
re that blog post, it’s hardly mono’s fault that your distro hasn’t bothered to package moonlight ^_^ |
Jan 24 13:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
Remember I was using Linux from 1994 on. |
Jan 24 13:56 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yes its a hell load of back logs to dig threw. |
Jan 24 13:56 |
| MinceR |
don’t they keep saying that it’s illegal to use moonlight anywhere but on suse? |
Jan 24 13:56 |
| oiaohm2 |
Not exactly MinceR |
Jan 24 13:56 |
| oiaohm2 |
illegal to redistrubite it. |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| oiaohm2 |
So download it from Novell and use it fine. |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| oiaohm2 |
Bundle it in a distribution not fine. |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| MinceR |
so that’s why other distros don’t package it. |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yep |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| MinceR |
not that i’d want to install that crap anyway. |
Jan 24 13:57 |
| MinceR |
if i want bloated, cpu-eating crap on my webpages, i have Adobe Trash for that. |
Jan 24 13:58 |
| benJIman |
Which is non-free. |
Jan 24 13:58 |
| benJIman |
oiaohm2: That only applies to the version with microsoft’s codecs included. |
Jan 24 13:58 |
| benJIman |
The ffmpeg one infringes other people’s patents but not microsoft’s. |
Jan 24 13:58 |
| oiaohm2 |
You try using it on sliverlight sites without MS codecs |
Jan 24 13:59 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: yes, the SFLC says so in a way |
Jan 24 13:59 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: just like silverlie/moonlie |
Jan 24 13:59 |
| MinceR |
what a coincidence! |
Jan 24 13:59 |
| MinceR |
except there’s gnash for trash… |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| benJIman |
Moonlight is free software. |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| MinceR |
“non-redistributable” is not free. |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| benJIman |
There are no software patents here, and if there were then silverlight would be the least of my worries. |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| MinceR |
sw patent encumbered isn’t free, either. |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| benJIman |
As every single piece of software I use probably infringes several software patents. |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| schestowitz |
Novell redefines free |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| trmanco |
http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2009/01/21… |
Jan 24 14:00 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: I doubt you use any software that doesn’t infringe patents. |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
Free-but-patents-encumbered (patents “We acknowledge and pay protection for”) |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: the way those patent threats are used makes all the difference. |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
Novell’s definitono of FOSS is a superset, a mixes set, poisonware |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
*mise |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
d*mixed |
Jan 24 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
Novell’s approach: we separate open and proprietary and SELL you “MIXED SOURCE” |
Jan 24 14:02 |
| schestowitz |
This renders GNU/Linux just a niche |
Jan 24 14:02 |
| schestowitz |
Novell wants to attach to it a “complement” you must pay for… like Ubuntu Remix |
Jan 24 14:02 |
| MinceR |
who must pay for ubuntu remix? |
Jan 24 14:03 |
| schestowitz |
I’just just received an E-mail saying: “See what KDE developers tell about FreeDesktop.org: http://dot.kde.org/1232669203/ Freedesktop was abused as a means to politically push Ximian/Novell technologies. With Mono and the like it even gets more dangerous.” |
Jan 24 14:04 |
| schestowitz |
Kind of like go-mono? |
Jan 24 14:04 |
| MinceR |
worse |
Jan 24 14:04 |
| schestowitz |
go-mono.com/… |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| schestowitz |
Go-OOXML |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| schestowitz |
Whats’ the “go” for? |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| MinceR |
wait, i’ve confused go-mono with go-oo |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| MinceR |
dunno |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| MinceR |
probably mono.com was already taken |
Jan 24 14:05 |
| MinceR |
so they’ve gone the lame workaround way |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| schestowitz |
Why go-oo? |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| schestowitz |
Will there be go-linux? |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| MinceR |
because they had go-mono already |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| schestowitz |
go-microsoft? |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| schestowitz |
go-miguel-go-so! |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its not like Mono is playing by MS rules either. |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| MinceR |
also, OOo was already renamed to match the domain name |
Jan 24 14:06 |
| oiaohm2 |
Mono has AOT mode that basically in time will make .net like any other language that can be complied. |
Jan 24 14:07 |
| MinceR |
nah, “go-linux” is called “suse” and “opensuse” |
Jan 24 14:07 |
| MinceR |
or you mean forking the kernel? |
Jan 24 14:07 |
| MinceR |
i doubt they have the resources needed to maintain a fork |
Jan 24 14:07 |
| MinceR |
and distro-specific patches tend to be kept as part of the distro |
Jan 24 14:08 |
| benJIman |
Most distros have some kernel patches. Ubuntu has a shedload. They’re essentially forks. |
Jan 24 14:08 |
| MinceR |
or putting mono in the kernel? i think that’s unlikely |
Jan 24 14:08 |
| oiaohm2 |
Not exactly. |
Jan 24 14:08 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: i know |
Jan 24 14:08 |
| benJIman |
Are you implying ht Novell is putting mono in the kenrel? |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: i meant a fork that doesn’t follow the mainline anymore |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| oiaohm2 |
Ubuntu kernel is a offical branch of the Linux kernel git system like most other distributions kernels. |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: not implying, just toying with the idea |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: Novell is shrinking. It can’t fork anything well. |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| MinceR |
looking for explanations of what schestowitz meant by “go-linux” |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz |
Oracle is more likely to fork, but what for? |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz |
Oracle might fork RHEL, not Linux. |
Jan 24 14:09 |
| benJIman |
A free OS like microsoft’s singluarity would be sweet. |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| benJIman |
* singularity |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| oiaohm2 |
It already exists benJIman |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| benJIman |
There’s sharpos etc, not got very far. |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| schestowitz |
*me sees benJIman getting a hardon for MS technologies. |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| MinceR |
lol |
Jan 24 14:10 |
| MinceR |
it’s mandatory for the flock, you see |
Jan 24 14:11 |
| benJIman |
Managed code is good. Whether it’s .net or another platform it doesn’t matter too much. |
Jan 24 14:11 |
| MinceR |
building an os on managed code seems to be good only for one thing — locking people into a platform |
Jan 24 14:11 |
| schestowitz |
Cool: http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2009/01… |
Jan 24 14:11 |
| MinceR |
a .net os can only run .net apps, a java os can run only java apps, … |
Jan 24 14:11 |
| oiaohm2 |
MS need for a mangle code OS is to complete with Linxu. |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| benJIman |
Of course safety, stability, and performance are not important eh MinceR ? |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| oiaohm2 |
Slightly wrong |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: That’s ont true. |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: you don’t need managed code for those |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| benJIman |
a .net OS could run any apps. |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| oiaohm2 |
a java OS and .net OS cannot run the others though translated. |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| MinceR |
there’s hardware support to ensure those already |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| oiaohm2 |
Singlarity cannot run other than .net benJIman |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| MinceR |
a managed os only means you’re not taking advantage of them |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: The majority of the types of vulnerabilities found in linux et al nowadays would not occur in managed code. |
Jan 24 14:12 |
| benJIman |
oiaohm2: That doesn’t mean the same applies to any managed OS. |
Jan 24 14:13 |
| MinceR |
other vulnerabilities would occur instead. |
Jan 24 14:13 |
| schestowitz |
http://opensourcecinema.org/ |
Jan 24 14:13 |
| oiaohm2 |
reason singlarity is ment to be cross cpu type. |
Jan 24 14:13 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea to avoid the ones we can. |
Jan 24 14:13 |
| oiaohm2 |
Linux user space drivers can be writen in anything. |
Jan 24 14:14 |
| oiaohm2 |
Most warped so far is a robotic arm controller writen in python. |
Jan 24 14:14 |
| MinceR |
well, i guess it would be possible to run managed servers on a microkernel system… |
Jan 24 14:21 |
| oiaohm2 |
Main idea is AOT. |
Jan 24 14:22 |
| oiaohm2 |
So you still have a mono lithic kernel. |
Jan 24 14:23 |
| oiaohm2 |
Difference is that bytecode can be audited on built to the native code of the platform far more effectively than native cpu code. |
Jan 24 14:23 |
| MinceR |
what’s AOT? |
Jan 24 14:23 |
| oiaohm2 |
Ahead of time processing of bytecode. |
Jan 24 14:24 |
| MinceR |
ic |
Jan 24 14:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yep basicaly bytecode to native code conversion. |
Jan 24 14:24 |
| oiaohm2 |
Gcj in gcc has it for java. |
Jan 24 14:24 |
| MinceR |
i don’t see why this has to be in the kernel, though |
Jan 24 14:25 |
| oiaohm2 |
Mono is working on it for .net. So yes in future a Linux driver written in C# sharp would be possiable. |
Jan 24 14:25 |
| oiaohm2 |
Just like a java driver in Linux kernel is possiable now. |
Jan 24 14:25 |
| oiaohm2 |
Yes major ic |
Jan 24 14:25 |
| oiaohm2 |
Only minorly less ic than ndiswrapper. |
Jan 24 14:26 |
| oiaohm2 |
Issue here is going mangled was though to be required for stablity. Tools are starting to appear that can do all the auditing mangling offered but on native code. |
Jan 24 14:34 |
| schestowitz |
What would Novell gain?/ |
Jan 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz |
Or its ally, Microsoft? How could they exploit it? |
Jan 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz |
Linus has been hard core about C (he mocked C++), so I can see it being marketed to “them” as a ‘better manages code”.. as in, lets make Linus more ‘modular’ (in the object-oriented sense).. the offer Mono. |
Jan 24 14:37 |
| schestowitz |
*then ; Linux; |
Jan 24 14:37 |
| oiaohm2 |
There are a lot of things that don’t go main line. |
Jan 24 14:38 |
| oiaohm2 |
Question is how Linux gains from a mono with aot that can put drivers into Linux kernel. Same way ndiswrapper gains linux with windows drivers now except for singlarity. |
Jan 24 14:39 |
| oiaohm2 |
Not all Novell actions are about the advantage of Microsoft. |
Jan 24 14:39 |
| MinceR |
how can you tell? |
Jan 24 14:41 |
| oiaohm2 |
Fairly simply. Does this action help MS long term profit. AoT really does not. Since with AoT platforms can now run .net applications without having to licence an .net envorment. |
Jan 24 14:43 |
| oiaohm2 |
Reduces .net to nothing more than a development envorment. |
Jan 24 14:44 |
| MinceR |
that depends on what they can do with their patent threats |
Jan 24 14:44 |
| oiaohm2 |
You cannot patent attack the device maker instead would have to patent attack the developer of application. |
Jan 24 14:44 |
| MinceR |
also, isn’t JIT better than AoT? :> |
Jan 24 14:44 |
| oiaohm2 |
JiT in some cases produces better performance than AoT but not many. |
Jan 24 14:45 |
| benJIman |
Jits can always be faster, have more optimisation options open to them. |
Jan 24 14:45 |
| oiaohm2 |
Depends on the optimisation engine benJIman |
Jan 24 14:45 |
| benJIman |
That’s why I said can. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| benJIman |
AoT has less information to base its optimisation on. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| oiaohm2 |
Some of the AoT ones are getting able to do the jit optimisations though code path prediction. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
oiaohm2: a lot of Novell’s revenue seems to come from Windows and Microsoft |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
Netware… SUSE vouchers, etc. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| benJIman |
For short running things it makes little difference. For long running things like services JIT realy comes into its own. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
It makes Novell part of the MS ecosystem. |
Jan 24 14:46 |
| benJIman |
oiaohm2: Profiling information is not available ahead of time. AoT compilers can’t make “optimistic assumptions” about the programme and then alter the generated code if they turn out to be false. |
Jan 24 14:47 |
| oiaohm2 |
Depends what kind of AoT again. |
Jan 24 14:48 |
| benJIman |
Nope that information is just not available. |
Jan 24 14:48 |
| oiaohm2 |
Its the basic idea you have that polymorphic machine code and AoT cannot mix. |
Jan 24 14:50 |
| oiaohm2 |
It really does depend purely on the type of AoT used if or if not it can have more than one path on offer. |
Jan 24 14:50 |
| benJIman |
That’s not the same thing at all. |
Jan 24 14:51 |
| benJIman |
A JIT compiler generates different machine code at runtime. AoT is just generating different codepaths. |
Jan 24 14:51 |
| oiaohm2 |
Funny enough lot of what the JIT is doing is covered by multiable paths. |
Jan 24 14:52 |
| oiaohm2 |
Like if function is called with statics solve out so you don’t have to waste time there. |
Jan 24 14:53 |
| oiaohm2 |
It really comes down to the AoT. Jit advantage is not in speed its size. |
Jan 24 14:53 |
| benJIman |
No its really not that sort of thing it does. Look at some of the papers on the optimisations that hotspot does. |
Jan 24 14:53 |
| *benJIman -> pub. |
Jan 24 14:54 |
| oiaohm2 |
Read the papers on how portland group complier does things. |
Jan 24 14:54 |
| oiaohm2 |
You find hotspot and portland basically do the same things. |
Jan 24 14:54 |
| oiaohm2 |
And get the same speed results. |
Jan 24 14:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
One is aot one is jit. |
Jan 24 14:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
Different is portland executable is a lot larger to achive the same things. |
Jan 24 14:55 |
| oiaohm2 |
There is only a limited numbers of paths though an application. |
Jan 24 14:56 |
| oiaohm2 |
Funny enough AoT can beat JiT for a while because a lot of time was spent on profiling before the application was run with AoT, So basically JiT is playing catch up. |
Jan 24 14:59 |
| oiaohm2 |
Idea is mostly a system that can use both perfectly. |
Jan 24 15:00 |
| *Casperin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Jan 24 15:02 |
| oiaohm2 |
Lot of jit is faster is put head to head with gcc what is one of the worst optimising C compliers in existance. |
Jan 24 15:05 |
| *oiaohm2 has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Jan 24 15:06 |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.215.41) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 15:20 |
| zer0c00l |
hi room, I have created and maintaining a blog,which apposes an university in india for using proprietary software in education, Can you people give me links on colleges/universities who uses free software to add up information in that blog |
Jan 24 15:23 |
| zer0c00l |
*opposes |
Jan 24 15:23 |
| zer0c00l |
Mainly they are using M$’s products |
Jan 24 15:24 |
| zer0c00l |
here is the blog http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/ |
Jan 24 15:24 |
| schestowitz |
Hey |
Jan 24 15:31 |
| *schestowitz looks |
Jan 24 15:32 |
| schestowitz |
Just links relating to education? |
Jan 24 15:33 |
| zer0c00l |
schools who use free software |
Jan 24 15:33 |
| zer0c00l |
and their ratings |
Jan 24 15:33 |
| zer0c00l |
how quality of education improved when they used free software |
Jan 24 15:34 |
| zer0c00l |
some popular schools who use free software |
Jan 24 15:34 |
| *Melio (n=melio@c-76-23-101-169.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 15:38 |
| Melio |
If by stating “I don’t like microsoft”, does this also mean, I don’t want to run opensuse, because of the patents? |
Jan 24 15:39 |
| Melio |
I know this comes up alot |
Jan 24 15:39 |
| Melio |
the relationship between opensuse and ms |
Jan 24 15:39 |
| schestowitz |
opensuse is a more complicated subject |
Jan 24 15:44 |
| schestowitz |
But it makes SLE* |
Jan 24 15:44 |
| schestowitz |
zer0c00l: in which country? Schools names? |
Jan 24 15:45 |
| zer0c00l |
any country… if its india it will be nice |
Jan 24 15:45 |
| Melio |
I think i’ll just stay away from opensuse |
Jan 24 15:45 |
| Melio |
there’s a ton of users in our lug that run it. but I’m a little aphrensive |
Jan 24 15:46 |
| zer0c00l |
schestowitz: yeah |
Jan 24 15:46 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t know names. But we definitely need such an index |
Jan 24 15:57 |
| schestowitz |
FOSS friendliness in different schools. |
Jan 24 15:57 |
| zer0c00l |
ok |
Jan 24 15:57 |
| schestowitz |
Melio: try Mandriva. |
Jan 24 15:57 |
| schestowitz |
It had both GNOME and KDE. |
Jan 24 15:57 |
| zer0c00l |
i read some where in fsf.org … “if you your schools use free software,please report us, we will add them to our list” |
Jan 24 15:58 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, that makes sense. |
Jan 24 15:58 |
| zer0c00l |
schestowitz: i will check it out |
Jan 24 15:58 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t know if such a list exists…. never seen one. |
Jan 24 15:59 |
| zer0c00l |
ok |
Jan 24 15:59 |
| schestowitz |
the FSF site can share rsults of research into it. |
Jan 24 15:59 |
| zer0c00l |
ok |
Jan 24 15:59 |
| zer0c00l |
bye see u again… thanks |
Jan 24 16:00 |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.215.41) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving”) |
Jan 24 16:00 |
| schestowitz |
Hehe! I’m listed here: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/01/… |
Jan 24 16:00 |
| Melio |
that’s pretty cool |
Jan 24 16:02 |
| Melio |
your a celeb |
Jan 24 16:02 |
| Melio |
time to sell t-shirts |
Jan 24 16:02 |
| Melio |
don’t get too greedy or anonymous will hack your website |
Jan 24 16:02 |
| schestowitz |
crack? |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| Melio |
i said hack |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| Melio |
don’t get it confused |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| Melio |
 |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| schestowitz |
I know. |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| schestowitz |
How does one hack a site? |
Jan 24 16:03 |
| Melio |
they’re latest is www.dontcuss.com |
Jan 24 16:04 |
| schestowitz |
tossing in hundreds of DLL files that are empty? |
Jan 24 16:04 |
| Melio |
they claim the website is being used to generate income for the parents |
Jan 24 16:04 |
| Melio |
it’s on wikinews.com |
Jan 24 16:05 |
| Melio |
http://en.wikinews.org/wi… |
Jan 24 16:05 |
| Melio |
sorry. .org |
Jan 24 16:05 |
| twitter |
good morning. |
Jan 24 16:40 |
| twitter |
nice boot sabotage write up. I had no idea Vista was as hostile as it is. |
Jan 24 16:40 |
| twitter |
I’ll have to update the vista failure log with that information. |
Jan 24 16:41 |
| twitter |
one thing to note is that the hand written notes are all contained in brackets {like this}. |
Jan 24 16:43 |
| twitter |
The text does not deliver the full emphasis of Mr. Ballmer’s all but animated notation, but most of the meaning is delivered. |
Jan 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: thanks. |
Jan 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz |
You got lots of the text there. |
Jan 24 16:44 |
| twitter |
thank you for collecting the vista boot stories and tying these things together. |
Jan 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz |
http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Histor… |
Jan 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz |
I reckon BN did about 1 million hits yesterday |
Jan 24 16:45 |
| twitter |
the full picture is greater than the sum of it’s parts. |
Jan 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz |
I had caching enabled until this morning. |
Jan 24 16:45 |
| twitter |
cool |
Jan 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz |
Statis don’t mean much anymore when requests are send to coral distributed cache |
Jan 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz |
But it’s important that people read it and get informed |
Jan 24 16:46 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 24 17:04:55 2009 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 17:04 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] |
Jan 24 17:04 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 |
Jan 24 17:04 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel |
Jan 24 17:04 |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. |
Jan 24 17:05 |
| *services. sets mode +e schestowitz |
Jan 24 17:05 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz |
Jan 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz |
I needed to restart KDE. Did I miss anything here? |
Jan 24 17:05 |
| MinceR |
nope |
Jan 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz |
Thanks. |
Jan 24 17:06 |
| MinceR |
np |
Jan 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz |
I need to get logger_bot up again. |
Jan 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: Someone sent this: “I know these are old, but it was what we were given at the time by the “Roadshow” people visiting our site. It has to do with the SSD’s, “http://www.liliputing.com/2008/07/sandisk-wi… http://www.betanews.com/article/SanDisk_wont_s… http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new… |
Jan 24 17:40 |
| schestowitz |
s_vista_poor_ssd_performance |
Jan 24 17:40 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news… (possibly useful to faiilurelog, probably the same with Vista7) |
Jan 24 17:40 |
| schestowitz |
Another reader says that “One conclusion about MS begging congress for relaxing the H1b rules is to “get better workers” is that anyone that knows any IT also knows what MS is about and doesn’t want to work there.” |
Jan 24 17:41 |
| twitter |
hey, interesting stuff. |
Jan 24 17:45 |
| schestowitz |
bbl |
Jan 24 17:46 |
| twitter |
I think I got the SSD problems way back when. SSD burnout is a natural extension of Vista’s crazy indexing system and “ready boost” was cruel joke. |
Jan 24 17:46 |
| twitter |
later. I’ll digest this. |
Jan 24 17:46 |
| twitter |
multiboot sabotage was submitted. |
Jan 24 17:46 |
| twitter |
http://news.slashdot.org/firehose.pl… |
Jan 24 17:46 |
| twitter |
I wonder if it will be picked up or considered so much old news about old news. |
Jan 24 17:47 |
| twitter |
maximum pc vendor blame article is gone 404 |
Jan 24 17:48 |
| twitter |
“Vista isn’t optimized for solid state disks” was big bullshit spin. |
Jan 24 17:49 |
| twitter |
Here’s the write up I did at the time. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/211741 |
Jan 24 17:51 |
| twitter |
It’s good to keep this in mind when people talk about Vista and Vista7 on netbooks. They can’t use SSD unless they fundamentally alter Vista – not going to happen. |
Jan 24 17:53 |
| twitter |
Instead, they will look for wasy sabotage SSDs for GNU/Linux, which already has special file systems and ram disk to wear level and reduce access. |
Jan 24 17:54 |
| twitter |
Ugh, I hate how they also tried to spin Vista as “full featured” and GNU/Linux as “Simple” |
Jan 24 17:56 |
| macabe_ |
Are SSD ideal for random access? Therefore, the need to defrag moot? |
Jan 24 17:58 |
| PetoKraus |
umm today i actually feel good at work |
Jan 24 18:06 |
| PetoKraus |
there was a woman, in her thirties i guess |
Jan 24 18:06 |
| PetoKraus |
she was like “oh fuck it, i really want to learn how this work, but I can’t/don’t know how to” |
Jan 24 18:06 |
| PetoKraus |
i told her to wait for a second, I wrote “www.ubuntu.com” on a post it note, and told her, if she has old machine which is not used for much and can’t possibly be screwed much more, then she should visit that page, download the ISO and burn it and play around with it |
Jan 24 18:07 |
| PetoKraus |
that it’s the best way to learn |
Jan 24 18:08 |
| PetoKraus |
feels so much better now |
Jan 24 18:08 |
| PetoKraus |
yeah and at the end of the shift there was this linux newbie who tried to fix his corrupted Ubuntu Linux partition by vista recovery cd |
Jan 24 18:09 |
| PetoKraus |
oh well |
Jan 24 18:09 |
| twitter |
macabe: SSDs are good for random access. Special file systems avoid extra writes. I’ve updated the disk thrash listing above and the Vista Failure Log to reflect boot sabotage. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 |
Jan 24 18:29 |
| twitter |
Peto, I’m sorry to hear that people reach for the problem to correct the solution. I wonder what happened to their Ubuntu partition, SP1? |
Jan 24 18:31 |
| twitter |
I think Ubuntu makes a separate home partition by default, but it’s a good practice to tell people. That way they can fix their system by reinstall without wiping their files. |
Jan 24 18:32 |
| twitter |
lunch time here, bbl |
Jan 24 18:32 |
| *Melio (n=melio@c-76-23-101-169.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 18:35 |
| *NeonF|oss has quit (“Going!”) |
Jan 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz |
Turns out I’m told that US unemployment might actually be 17% by old definitions that are comparable with the 1930s |
Jan 24 20:18 |
| PetoKraus |
alright guys |
Jan 24 20:21 |
| PetoKraus |
time for a whiskey for every ghost |
Jan 24 20:21 |
| PetoKraus |
see you later |
Jan 24 20:21 |
| schestowitz |
Maybe Windows decided t bite the Ubuntu partition/ partitoon table. |
Jan 24 20:21 |
| *r0ver (n=r0ver@200.127.24.112) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 20:22 |
| schestowitz |
Reader: “Let’s keep finding nuggets to draw to the attention of the press. And tone down the personal remarks, stick to the facts and let others form an opinion as to the values of those who act like MS.” |
Jan 24 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
I need your help. All will be published, eventually. Let’s sort and organise thing in the Wiki.. |
Jan 24 21:15 |
| trmanco |
“You can buy 2 x 1Tb hard drives and install Linux instead |
Jan 24 21:27 |
| trmanco |
of buying the PISTA higher cost versions.” |
Jan 24 21:27 |
| schestowitz |
Pista7? |
Jan 24 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
“7″ says “PISTA” |
Jan 24 21:45 |
| trmanco |
yes it, he is the author of that quote |
Jan 24 21:53 |
| trmanco |
forget “it” |
Jan 24 21:53 |
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Jan 24 21:57 |
| schestowitz |
trmanco: don’t borrow “windummies” too |
Jan 24 22:00 |
| trmanco |
LOL |
Jan 24 22:02 |
| trmanco |
and microshaft |
Jan 24 22:02 |
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Jan 24 22:09 |
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Jan 24 22:10 |
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Jan 24 22:10 |
| *r0ver has quit (“Leaving.”) |
Jan 24 22:22 |
| schestowitz |
Atheistische Kampagnen weiten sich aus Atheistic campaigns are expanding < http://translate.google.com/transl… > |
Jan 24 22:32 |
| trmanco |
typedef int number; |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
class microsoft : public corporation, public enemy<(number) 1> { |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
public: |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
microsoft() |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
{ |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| twitter |
What personal remarks is your reader talking about? Your summaries are usually correct and you back them with links to crimes. Sounds like he’s trying to get you to self censor. Be yourself and you will do the best job you can. Be someone else and you won’t. |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
sanity = 200; |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
bill_gates = drop_out(); |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
ceo = bill_gates; |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
while (sanity > 2) { |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
sleep(2); |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
sanity–; |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
} |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
steve_ballmer = new class doofus; |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
} |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| twitter |
I’m up for organization. |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| trmanco |
http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/d… |
Jan 24 22:36 |
| twitter |
Comcast screwing competitors and clients through “traffic management” |
Jan 24 22:45 |
| twitter |
http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/09/0… |
Jan 24 22:45 |
| twitter |
Slashdot is getting it’s groove back http://news.slashdot.org/news/09… |
Jan 24 22:48 |
| twitter |
They managed to combine several related stories. |
Jan 24 22:48 |
| twitter |
and then they do this flamebait summary. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?… |
Jan 24 22:52 |
| twitter |
The article itself is interesting, http://www.computerworld.com/action/arti… |
Jan 24 22:53 |
| twitter |
the summary makes you think, “what is that ass saying now?!!” |
Jan 24 22:53 |
| twitter |
very interesting stuff about git and java |
Jan 24 22:55 |
| schestowitz |
Comcast us MS-funded |
Jan 24 23:01 |
| schestowitz |
Another cable company that’s with Microsoft did this not so long ago |
Jan 24 23:02 |
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Jan 24 23:10 |
| schestowitz |
IBM Confirms Layoffs < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158273/ibm… > |
Jan 24 23:19 |
| *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6070-ipad06yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 24 23:53 |
ᶃ Gemini Space
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