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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 2nd, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 8:14 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

mitsuhiko jose: i already read it Feb 02 18:57
MinceR mitsuhiko: define “gpl crap” Feb 02 18:57
jose mitsuhiko, the cli is a low footprint solution Feb 02 18:58
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – it’s clumsy as hell to work with. That’s a problem. Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko MinceR: i can’t use it? Feb 02 18:58
jose mitsuhiko, well what did you think? Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko gpl only works with gpl Feb 02 18:58
MinceR not really Feb 02 18:58
MinceR read the faq at fsf.org Feb 02 18:58
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – it’s worse than netbeans. Feb 02 18:58
MinceR you can use non-gpl libraries from gpl apps Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko MinceR: readline is a gpl library Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko you can’t use it from non gpl code Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko get your facts right Feb 02 18:58
MinceR then write gpl code Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhiko which is something i won’t do Feb 02 18:59
MinceR you said you _can’t_ do it Feb 02 18:59
MinceR not that you _won’t_ do it Feb 02 18:59
MinceR learn the difference Feb 02 18:59
mitsuhiko MinceR: i can’t and i won’t Feb 02 18:59
MinceR why can’t you? Feb 02 18:59
MinceR does your religion forbid you from doing so? Feb 02 18:59
schestowitz MS DRM history: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/mic… Feb 02 18:59
mitsuhiko i can’t because people depend on my stuff being non gpl and i hate the gpl for what it stands for Feb 02 18:59
MinceR (that would be my guess) Feb 02 18:59
mitsuhiko which is something i cannot support Feb 02 19:00
The_Mad_Hatter gpl is useful for some things. BSD or MIT for others. Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhiko schestowitz: the world is bad, deal with it Feb 02 19:00
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – you hate the GPL? Tell us more. Feb 02 19:00
jose gpl is quite useful i find Feb 02 19:00
MinceR which people depend on all your stuff being non gpl and why? Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhiko but what does that have to do with mono? Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhiko let microsoft do their thing, let the mono guys to theirs Feb 02 19:00
MinceR let’s not let microsoft do their thing Feb 02 19:00
MinceR it has already resulted in a lot of damage Feb 02 19:01
jose nor encourage the mono people to help microsoft Feb 02 19:01
The_Mad_Hatter I found a new blog – Microsoft Delenda Est! Feb 02 19:01
The_Mad_Hatter http://microsoftdelendaest.blo… Feb 02 19:01
mitsuhiko oh boy. you will never stop will you? :-/ Feb 02 19:01
MinceR mitsuhiko: will you? Feb 02 19:01
The_Mad_Hatter For those who can’t read Latin it translates to “Microsoft must be destroyed” Feb 02 19:02
mitsuhiko MinceR: i don’t know about you, but i for myself try to stay unbiased as much as i can Feb 02 19:02
jose mitsuhiko, gpl mono and mono with (let’s assume) a patent grant from microsoft doesn’t fix the damage: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l… this is part two.. part one is the other link Feb 02 19:02
mitsuhiko and if that means adopting other people’s opinions when it turns out that they are right, that’s what i will do Feb 02 19:02
jose the mono guys can do their things.. and BN does it’s thing Feb 02 19:02
MinceR mitsuhiko: well, you seem to be brutally unsuccessful Feb 02 19:02
mitsuhiko which is why i don’t blindly support the gpl Feb 02 19:02
MinceR you will blindly diss it instead, as we could see Feb 02 19:03
jose well, closed source monopolies are incompatible with foss Feb 02 19:03
mitsuhiko MinceR: i’m watching your blog for at least half a year Feb 02 19:03
MinceR that will be very difficult Feb 02 19:03
MinceR considering that i don’t have a blog Feb 02 19:03
mitsuhiko you blog being schestowitz’s blog Feb 02 19:03
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – but apparently not getting it. Feb 02 19:03
MinceR that isn’t my blog Feb 02 19:03
jose mitsuhiko, feel free to find the fud and point to the opinion of others that is correct..in your opinion. Feb 02 19:04
MinceR it follows from the above that watching all the blogs that i have, on the other hand, is a trivial task :> Feb 02 19:04
mitsuhiko i strongly recommend any of you to talk to guys from novell or microsoft for a moment Feb 02 19:05
jose why don’t you sell me there argument right here right now.. why wait.. i hate suspense (most of time) Feb 02 19:05
MinceR they come here from time to time so that’s already given Feb 02 19:05
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – I have a bunch of microsoft guys I keep in touch with on Facebook Feb 02 19:05
jose there -> their Feb 02 19:05
mitsuhiko there is no argument that stops the discussion as the topic is a complex one Feb 02 19:05
mitsuhiko the world is not just black and white, and neither is novell or microsoft Feb 02 19:06
MinceR novell and microsoft aren’t black and white, indeed Feb 02 19:06
MinceR they’re black Feb 02 19:06
jose and why don’t you contribute some selling here on these forums.. what’s the hold up.. let’s continue with the discussion. Feb 02 19:06
MinceR (well novell is since it has become a lackey to microsoft) Feb 02 19:06
mitsuhiko MinceR: which is exactly the kind of attitude that kills a serious discussion before it started Feb 02 19:06
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – buy getting back to the important point, where is the FUD you claim Roy has posted, and give us your reasoning as to why it’s FUD. Back up your claims with facts, quotations, etc. Feb 02 19:06
jose i don’t like nda’s Feb 02 19:06
MinceR mitsuhiko: i’m sorry for contradicting your religious beliefs Feb 02 19:07
MinceR perhaps you’d feel cozier with the other believers Feb 02 19:07
jose mitsuhiko, i’ll have a serious discussion with you.. while i’m on here. Feb 02 19:07
MinceR mitsuhiko: we’ve already called your bluffs Feb 02 19:07
mitsuhiko MinceR: religion has nothing to do with that discussion Feb 02 19:07
jose i like keeping tabs on the humor, but i’ll try myself to stay serious. Feb 02 19:07
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – please define the “FUD” that you claim is here. Feb 02 19:08
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: The FUD is that microsoft or anyone else could come by and “disable” your application from one moment to another Feb 02 19:08
mitsuhiko which is not that will or could happen Feb 02 19:08
MinceR what context is that stated in? Feb 02 19:08
MinceR what platform, etc. Feb 02 19:08
MinceR (so i’ll know what you’re talking about) Feb 02 19:08
jose “disable” well a patent suit would effectively disable Feb 02 19:08
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – but it’s documented that they could – see this article from 2003 Feb 02 19:08
The_Mad_Hatter http://aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html Feb 02 19:09
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: no, they can not Feb 02 19:09
jose and it need not be microsoft but could be proxies. Feb 02 19:09
mitsuhiko jose: you know that this will not happen Feb 02 19:09
The_Mad_Hatter I’m sorry, it’s close to 200 pages long. Feb 02 19:09
jose mitsuhiko.. funny Feb 02 19:09
jose mitsuhiko .. trolls have little to lose Feb 02 19:09
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – you are correct. I know this won’t happen to me, since I don’t use any Microsoft software. Feb 02 19:09
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: as a user of microsoft software you don’t have to fear anything Feb 02 19:10
MinceR The_Mad_Hatter: what about mono Feb 02 19:10
MinceR ? Feb 02 19:10
jose trolls love it when you have lots of $$$ Feb 02 19:10
jose they also like to stiffle projects at key junctures Feb 02 19:10
jose stifle Feb 02 19:10
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – according to Microsoft I do, otherwise the EULA wouldn’t mention the issue Feb 02 19:10
The_Mad_Hatter MinceR – No Mono either. Feb 02 19:11
mitsuhiko i don’t know about the states, but at least in europe the EULA stands on no legal basis Feb 02 19:11
mitsuhiko and the EULA has nothing to do with how patents work Feb 02 19:11
jose mitsuhiko,, i am talking about as a user and dev of mono and dotnet clones /apps Feb 02 19:11
The_Mad_Hatter MinceR – I removed it from Ubuntu. Feb 02 19:11
MinceR ic Feb 02 19:11
mitsuhiko MinceR: .net applications are not infringing any patents by definition Feb 02 19:12
MinceR so the framework does? Feb 02 19:12
jose what definition are you talking about? That would be interesting Feb 02 19:12
mitsuhiko there are patents that patent parts of every compiler, every virtual machine, every framework you know Feb 02 19:12
mitsuhiko why don’t you go after python for infringing patents? Feb 02 19:12
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – the EULA gives Microsoft the ability to do things to my computer without my permission is I am running Windows. Feb 02 19:12
jose nevermind.. you meant ms dotnet, ok Feb 02 19:12
MinceR mitsuhiko: the question is, which patents will they attempt to use against me Feb 02 19:13
jose microsoft did not make those up Feb 02 19:13
jose to patent you have to invent Feb 02 19:13
MinceR ballmer’s threats were pretty clear Feb 02 19:13
jose in the us Feb 02 19:13
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: what part of the EULA says that? Feb 02 19:13
jose random patents pose limited hazards in contrast to guaranteed violations from api usage Feb 02 19:13
mitsuhiko MinceR: ballmer’s a monkey that tries to attract shareholders Feb 02 19:13
MinceR so why do you buy software from that monkey? Feb 02 19:14
mitsuhiko who said i did? Feb 02 19:14
mitsuhiko if you’re clever you get it for free Feb 02 19:14
jose why don’t you help fork mono Feb 02 19:14
MinceR you keep advocating the use of m$ products Feb 02 19:14
MinceR and a product that depends on their patents Feb 02 19:14
mitsuhiko jose: because i’m perfectly fine with how it works. no need to fork it Feb 02 19:14
jose yeah, as if modifying it would change anything really. Feb 02 19:15
jose if you did it propertly Feb 02 19:15
mitsuhiko MinceR: that company is still called microsoft or ms, not m$ Feb 02 19:15
jose of course, keeping it identical is the way to lead to guaranteed patent violations Feb 02 19:15
jose and spread MS protocols, api, grow mindshare, etc Feb 02 19:15
mitsuhiko i don’t care how creates the protocols as long as they are standardized Feb 02 19:16
mitsuhiko people are happily using DAAP even though apple changes the protocol every release of iTunes Feb 02 19:16
MinceR mitsuhiko: they get as much respect as they deserve Feb 02 19:16
jose standards don’t change anything of what i just said Feb 02 19:17
mitsuhiko you can always see the devil Feb 02 19:17
jose that’s bn for you… seeing and calling the devil out Feb 02 19:17
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jose :-) Feb 02 19:17
mitsuhiko jose: bn? Feb 02 19:17
jose boyco… Feb 02 19:17
jose this site Feb 02 19:17
mitsuhiko well. if you’re calling it “boycot novell” you can expect pissed people joining the channel Feb 02 19:18
jose i understand Feb 02 19:18
jose i’d call it boycottmicrosoft Feb 02 19:18
MinceR yes, people who believe novell should get away with what they’re doing Feb 02 19:18
jose and then accept the urination as a cost of doing business Feb 02 19:18
jose boycottnovell is good as well though Feb 02 19:19
MinceR the same people tend to believe that MICROS~1 should get away with what they’re doing, too Feb 02 19:19
MinceR i think it should be more general Feb 02 19:19
jose so long as novell keeps pushing what they push Feb 02 19:19
mitsuhiko as a matter of fact i think both companies should continue to do what they are doing Feb 02 19:19
jose great Feb 02 19:19
jose different strokes for different folks Feb 02 19:20
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MinceR mitsuhiko: do they pay you? Feb 02 19:20
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mitsuhiko do you believe that we would live in a better world if microsoft and novell wouldn’t be here? Feb 02 19:20
mitsuhiko MinceR: they don’t care about you Feb 02 19:20
jose what kind of question is that? Feb 02 19:20
MinceR mitsuhiko: i didn’t ask about myself Feb 02 19:20
MinceR mitsuhiko: so, do they pay you? Feb 02 19:20
jose they don’t have to pay him/her Feb 02 19:21
MinceR mitsuhiko: i’m sure we’d live in a better world if m$ and novell never existed Feb 02 19:21
MinceR actually, it would be enough if m$ never existed Feb 02 19:21
MinceR without them, novell wouldn’t be what it is Feb 02 19:21
jose that’s true Feb 02 19:21
mitsuhiko MinceR: unfortunately the english language got rid of the 2nd form singular. if course i was referring to the channel i consider you (you, yourself) being a part of Feb 02 19:21
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Did you read the EULA text? Feb 02 19:21
MinceR mitsuhiko: i don’t care if they care about us Feb 02 19:22
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: it’s not valid here, why should i do Feb 02 19:22
MinceR mitsuhiko: i know they want profits at the expense of everyone who doesn’t work for them Feb 02 19:22
jose this is about protecting foss devs and users Feb 02 19:22
MinceR (microsoft vs. the world) Feb 02 19:22
jose from public enemy number one Feb 02 19:22
jose closed source monopolies and foss don’t mix Feb 02 19:22
mitsuhiko competition is good Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko you should start to accept that Feb 02 19:23
MinceR microsoft doesn’t agree with you Feb 02 19:23
jose competition that is fair is wonderful Feb 02 19:23
MinceR they do everything they can to avoid having to compete Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko microsoft is fair Feb 02 19:23
MinceR lol Feb 02 19:23
MinceR tell us more jokes like that Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko so, what is not fair? Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko that they punched netscape out of the market? Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko their browser sucked Feb 02 19:23
jose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-… Feb 02 19:23
MinceR for example, what they did to Digital Research? Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhiko that they puntched apple in the face? apple had a closed architecture, no wonder they failed Feb 02 19:24
MinceR explorer sucked and still sucks more than netscape ever did Feb 02 19:24
jose a stranglehold is not good for those outside Feb 02 19:24
MinceR apple are just another microsoft Feb 02 19:24
mitsuhiko you should know that, you’re encouraging people to use open source Feb 02 19:24
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – well you asked where it said that Microsoft could remote admin my computer, and turn thinkggs off. So I posted the text in question, now you say that it’s not legal where you are. I supposed that this means that you don’t care about those who live where it is legal? Feb 02 19:24
MinceR afaik they still own part of apple Feb 02 19:24
schestowitz MinceR: check this Feb 02 19:24
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: point me to the eula and the part you’re refering to where they allow themselves to log into your computer Feb 02 19:24
schestowitz Someone posted it to USENET last night Feb 02 19:24
schestowitz Very disturbing Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz More scary than funny Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz rom that monkey? Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz <mitsuhiko> who said i did? Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz Oops. Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz http://uk.youtube.com/watch?… Feb 02 19:25
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – here’s the text Feb 02 19:25
mitsuhiko where is the text? Feb 02 19:25
MinceR then there’s wordperfect Feb 02 19:25
MinceR and what they’re still doing with OEMs regarding preinstalled OSes Feb 02 19:26
MinceR we could keep listing these things all day Feb 02 19:26
*The_Mad_Hatter has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 02 19:26
schestowitz They have hypnosis Feb 02 19:26
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jose i don’t read their eula’s but if they don’t explicitly say they won’t and you don’t explicitly specify that, they can. Feb 02 19:26
schestowitz People are intended to be stupefied. Feb 02 19:27
MinceR sounds like the Reality Distortion Field Feb 02 19:27
schestowitz Then forget the sins of companies like Microsoft Feb 02 19:27
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: where is the text? Feb 02 19:27
The_Mad_Hatter Right here – 2.3 Internet-Based Services Components. The Software contains components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Software and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Software that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer Feb 02 19:27
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: that is not logging into the system, that’s automatic updates Feb 02 19:27
schestowitz This was well realised many many years ago when companies were told explicitly to pretend to be nice to the cameras or else people would know the crimes they are up to. Feb 02 19:27
schestowitz In IT, Microsoft is a class of its own (in crime) Feb 02 19:27
The_Mad_Hatter Yep, Microsoft has a massive Reality Distortion Field Feb 02 19:27
schestowitz Since the very beginning Feb 02 19:27
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: do you have a car with a gps? Feb 02 19:27
jose like i said:  i don’t read their eula’s but if they don’t explicitly say they won’t and you don’t explicitly specify that, they can. Feb 02 19:27
MinceR mitsuhiko: automatically downloading arbitrary code is essentially root access Feb 02 19:28
mitsuhiko you should read *THAT* eula :) Feb 02 19:28
schestowitz Other industries have their MS equivalents, but not all of them Feb 02 19:28
mitsuhiko MinceR: no. installing code is, which they do not Feb 02 19:28
mitsuhiko schestowitz: which industry does not have monopolies? Feb 02 19:28
jose a gps device is not comparable to the OS that runs my business or private dealings Feb 02 19:28
schestowitz De Icaza is part of the MS hypnosis Feb 02 19:28
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/01/a… Feb 02 19:28
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2… Feb 02 19:28
MinceR mitsuhiko: “providing upgrades or fixes” to software you’re running all the time is Feb 02 19:28
schestowitz Both on hypnosis Feb 02 19:29
mitsuhiko hypnosis… Feb 02 19:29
MinceR if part of that runs with admin rights, which it does Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Yes Feb 02 19:29
mitsuhiko that’s what i’m calling FUD Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Illusion Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Like Hollywood and Washington Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Washington DC has the most gun crime Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz But also the most white-collar crime, AFAIK Feb 02 19:29
jose what is the fud.. the miguel thing or that ms can do what they want with the software you are licensing? Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz But the word crime is supposed to be associated with terms like black Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Like [black] crime Feb 02 19:29
mitsuhiko your weapon is confusion, because you don’t make sense :) Feb 02 19:29
schestowitz Or welfare [mother] Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz All intended to daemonise and divide Feb 02 19:30
mitsuhiko jose: both is fud Feb 02 19:30
The_Mad_Hatter Washington DC is pretty quiet. I’ve often wandered around after midnight there Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz This is how propaganda is established Feb 02 19:30
mitsuhiko microsoft is bound to the law Feb 02 19:30
jose the latter clearly isn’t mitsuhiko Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz “pirates” Feb 02 19:30
mitsuhiko jose: yes it is Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz “Mother’s basement” Feb 02 19:30
MinceR mitsuhiko: why don’t you tell them they’re bound by law? Feb 02 19:30
jose i don’t like to make things personal, btw. in the past that has proved potentially ugly Feb 02 19:30
MinceR they seem to have forgot that Feb 02 19:30
mitsuhiko MinceR: they know that they are Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz The_Mad_Hatter: I was there in 2006, don’t be deceived Feb 02 19:30
MinceR mitsuhiko: why don’t they act like they know then? Feb 02 19:30
schestowitz The crime happens behing close doors and no weapons used Feb 02 19:31
jose they wrote the software mitsuhiko Feb 02 19:31
mitsuhiko MinceR: is that a serious question? Feb 02 19:31
mitsuhiko jose: so? Feb 02 19:31
schestowitz Just favours or money swapped Feb 02 19:31
MinceR does the term “monopoly abuse” ring a bell? Feb 02 19:31
schestowitz “Did you know that there are more than 34,750 registered lobbyists in Washington, D.C., for just 435 representatives and 100 senators? That’s 64 lobbyists for each congressperson.” Feb 02 19:31
jose so the code into it what they want Feb 02 19:31
schestowitz If only more people had realise how the US is run Feb 02 19:31
The_Mad_Hatter Roy – I think that Washington is a lot less dangerous than it’s made out to be. I’ve never had any trouble, and I’m usually there 2-3 times per year. Feb 02 19:32
schestowitz And how subsidies are used for taxation and reform is a code word for something else… Feb 02 19:32
schestowitz And then you have hired guns like this criminal:  http://www.bermanexposed.or Feb 02 19:32
The_Mad_Hatter United States – Government for the corporations, by the corporations. Feb 02 19:32
jose btw, in last comment.. “the” -> “they” Feb 02 19:32
schestowitz No worries about typos Feb 02 19:33
jose was worried the short fragment didn’t make sense Feb 02 19:33
mitsuhiko MinceR: have your fun, poke at microsoft but let the mono guys do their stuff Feb 02 19:33
jose help Microsoft accomplish it’s goals?? Feb 02 19:33
jose sorry. Feb 02 19:33
MinceR mitsuhiko: the mono guys are developing a patent trap that serves microsoft Feb 02 19:33
schestowitz heh. That’s kind of the host.. “Thank you for your reply and for choosing HostDime for all of your web hosting needs. I hope we can continue to provide you with excellent services and prices now and in the future. If you may ever have any future comments or questions, please do not hesitate to submit a ticket or post in our community forums.” Feb 02 19:33
The_Mad_Hatter mitsuhiko – why should we do that? Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhiko MinceR: we’ve already covered that Feb 02 19:34
schestowitz I guess I should have pressed them on Sunday Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: because it’s the only thing that would save linux on the desktop Feb 02 19:34
jose let’s let bn do its thing as well and we can keep arguing back and forth for years to come. Feb 02 19:34
MinceR mitsuhiko: that’s an overstatement Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhiko it’s not Feb 02 19:34
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Why would it save Linux on the desktop? Feb 02 19:34
MinceR well, we’ve heard your micro$oft dogma Feb 02 19:34
MinceR (one side of it anyway :> ) Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: because computers change and the oss community will have a hard time keeping up Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhiko most of the open source stuff copies existing technologies in a bad way Feb 02 19:35
MinceR lol Feb 02 19:35
jose is mitsuhiko suggesting linux has no hope except through mono? that is funny. Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhiko jose: on the desktop, yes Feb 02 19:35
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Not really. Microsoft will have a hard time keeping up. Feb 02 19:35
MinceR mitsuhiko: why don’t you research where m$ takes their “technology”? Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: how so? Feb 02 19:35
MinceR here’s a hint: they didn’t invent it. Feb 02 19:35
jose you are too much mitsuhiko.. you don’t make sense, buy you are funny Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhiko MinceR: they either buy or invent it, they do have microsoft research Feb 02 19:35
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Microsoft doesn’t have 10 million programmers working on it. Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhiko and there work some of the cleverest guys out there Feb 02 19:36
MinceR also, if you believe that gnu/linux is just a copy of 1970s unix, you read too much m$ propaganda and lack critical thinking. Feb 02 19:36
MinceR mitsuhiko: we can see how clever it is Feb 02 19:36
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: ten million programmers running in different directions Feb 02 19:36
MinceR it leads to products like vista Feb 02 19:36
mitsuhiko MinceR: have you actually ever worked with vista? Feb 02 19:36
MinceR in fact i have Feb 02 19:36
MinceR thankfully not much Feb 02 19:36
mitsuhiko or is your only experience what ars technica is writing Feb 02 19:36
MinceR even the usb storage device handling sucks in vista Feb 02 19:36
mitsuhiko so. what’s the problem with vista Feb 02 19:36
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – That’s the strength of Free Software. Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: no. that’s the problem Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhiko not a single component of the average linux desktop is working out fine Feb 02 19:37
MinceR mitsuhiko: those “different directions” are what result in innovation Feb 02 19:37
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – no, that’s the strength. Ask a biologist about hybrid vigor. Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhiko graphics system does not do because of the gpl kernel and people hating proprietary drivers Feb 02 19:37
MinceR not what the marketers of the day make up at m$ Feb 02 19:37
MinceR which basically amount to “let’s make a new, shinier skin” Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhiko the network manager is a catastrophe Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhiko we have half a dozen of core technologies in memory at the same time making it a memory hog Feb 02 19:38
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – agreed. The Windows network manager is a catasrophe. Feb 02 19:38
jose mitsuhiko, what does your anger at some kernel or desktop issues have to do with mono Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhiko there is not a single interface users can use Feb 02 19:38
MinceR you know what’s a memory hog? windows. Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: i was talking about the red hat one Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhiko MinceR: haha, no Feb 02 19:38
MinceR haha, yes Feb 02 19:38
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – and I’m talking about the Microsoft one. It’s shit. Feb 02 19:38
jose mitsuhiko, those that wouldn’t know better might think from hearing you that linux is crap. Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhiko MinceR: if you can talk away problems with the network manager, you should try to do that in the launchpad Feb 02 19:39
jose of course, to balance, they’ll also hear that windows and vista are crap as well. :-) Feb 02 19:39
mitsuhiko maybe it will convince people that linux isn’t crap afterall Feb 02 19:39
MinceR mitsuhiko: networkmanager works for me :> Feb 02 19:39
mitsuhiko MinceR: one in a million Feb 02 19:39
MinceR i’m sure Feb 02 19:39
mitsuhiko i suppose your acpi support works flawlessly as well Feb 02 19:39
MinceR it’s strange how all microsoft munchkins believe everybody else is just like them Feb 02 19:39
MinceR it does Feb 02 19:40
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – you know I haven’t had a single machine meltdown since I dumped Windows? Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: you know that i never had a problem with either operating system? Feb 02 19:40
jose acpi is an antitrust issue for microsoft in waiting Feb 02 19:40
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – I used to have one every 3-4 months (we have a lot of computers here) Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhiko neither windows, neither dos, neither os x, neither linux Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhiko in terms of “destroyed or stopped working” Feb 02 19:40
MinceR strange Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhiko jose: oh yes, that will help the problems it has Feb 02 19:41
MinceR a moment ago you were claiming linux is crap Feb 02 19:41
jose acpi and antitrust: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/31/hu… Feb 02 19:41
mitsuhiko MinceR: which is why i said destroyed or stopped working Feb 02 19:41
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Windows would die (computer not capable of booting) on a regular basis. L Feb 02 19:41
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: i wonder why only microsoft haters have that problem Feb 02 19:41
MinceR mitsuhiko: because that problem makes people hate microsoft? Feb 02 19:41
mitsuhiko probably a conspiracy Feb 02 19:41
The_Mad_Hatter Linux/BSD/Solaris is a hell of a lot more stable. I have machines here running BSD and Linux at present (decided Soalris was too much work) Feb 02 19:41
MinceR it isn’t rocket science, you know Feb 02 19:41
jose microsoft haters…lol Feb 02 19:42
jose Monopolysoft hater.. Feb 02 19:42
mitsuhiko MinceR: to a large extend because if you have the same problem on a windows box you’re blaming microsoft whereas on a linux box you’re ignoring it Feb 02 19:42
jose hater.. beautiful word Feb 02 19:42
MinceR mitsuhiko: which problem would that be? Feb 02 19:42
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – a lot of people have that problem. Windows is, and has always been unstable. Feb 02 19:42
mitsuhiko MinceR: network problems, broken updates (like x11 stopping working), buggy software etc. Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhiko The_Mad_Hatter: windows only was unstable in the dos line Feb 02 19:43
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – the same machine running Linux/BSD runs flawlessly. Feb 02 19:43
MinceR the last time x11 stopped working was years ago Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhiko caused by bad 3rd party software and bad memory protection Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhiko the nt line is totally different in terms of operating system design Feb 02 19:43
MinceR the last time i’ve had a bsod in windows was when i attempted to install it :> Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhiko the only thing that can cause a bsod there is a kernel module (aka driver) Feb 02 19:43
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – Windows NT/2000/XP is marginally more stable than 95/98/ME, but not much. Feb 02 19:44
mitsuhiko MinceR: overclocked machine or broken ram Feb 02 19:44
MinceR mitsuhiko: wrong Feb 02 19:44
MinceR mitsuhiko: their partition table handling code in the installer sucks Feb 02 19:44
MinceR i’ve worked around it Feb 02 19:44
MinceR but it’s ugly Feb 02 19:44
jose a kernel module.. or bugs Feb 02 19:44
The_Mad_Hatter Misuhiko – same machine with BSD/Linux runs fine, 24/7, for years. Feb 02 19:44
mitsuhiko jose: user space applications can’t cause a BSOD Feb 02 19:44
jose of course, we have to take microsoft’s word that there are no design flaws.. Feb 02 19:45
MinceR assuming that there are no bugs in windows Feb 02 19:45
jose words are cheap Feb 02 19:45
MinceR that would be an interesting alternate reality Feb 02 19:45
jose mitsuhiko, what’s that about userspace apps? Feb 02 19:45
PeterKraus words are weightless here on earth, because they are free… Feb 02 19:45
PeterKraus         – Josh Homme, QoTSA Feb 02 19:45
MinceR we know for a fact that there are design flaws in windows Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhiko jose: what do you mean? Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhiko MinceR: like? Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhiko the windows.h? Feb 02 19:45
The_Mad_Hatter Mitsuhiko – and of course costs running BSD/Linux are far less, since you don’t have to have an Anti-Virus subscription Feb 02 19:45
jose what did you last comment to me mean? Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhiko jose: what i said? Feb 02 19:46
MinceR like having part of the gui (no, not the display drivers) built into the kernel Feb 02 19:46
jose ok, but not sure why you addressed it to me. Feb 02 19:46
jose a bug in the OS could mean that a sneeze can lead to problems Feb 02 19:46
jose so would userspace apps Feb 02 19:46
MinceR and like allowing processes to tell each other to run code for them (remote thread, iirc) Feb 02 19:46
mitsuhiko jose: the same happens on linux Feb 02 19:46
mitsuhiko no code is bug free Feb 02 19:46
jose agree pretty much Feb 02 19:47
mitsuhiko MinceR: that is a clever design decision, not a flaw Feb 02 19:47
MinceR so code with one bug is equivalent to the same code with a thousand bugs? Feb 02 19:47
mitsuhiko MinceR: i can attach to linux applications too an execute code Feb 02 19:47
jose there is quite a value in having the world at large have access to the source code mitsuhiko Feb 02 19:47
MinceR mitsuhiko: malware writers agree with you Feb 02 19:47
MinceR it’s a pretty clever trick they can hide their code with Feb 02 19:47
mitsuhiko MinceR: i was referring to the the gui part Feb 02 19:47
MinceR then there’s another huge design flaw they call “registry” Feb 02 19:48
MinceR mitsuhiko: that’s not a clever trick either Feb 02 19:48
mitsuhiko the registry is legacy cruft but not a design flaw Feb 02 19:48
mitsuhiko i don’t know why everybody is having problems with the registry Feb 02 19:48
MinceR legacy? what replaces it now? Feb 02 19:48
MinceR because it sucks? Feb 02 19:48
mitsuhiko MinceR: why does it suck? Feb 02 19:48
MinceR because it’s unreliable and collects cruft that’s difficult to impossible to remove? Feb 02 19:48
jose mitsuhiko, with open source different people can work on different solutions.. the best moves up.. marketing and time or costs aren’t a factor.. in general Feb 02 19:49
mitsuhiko it’s reliable Feb 02 19:49
MinceR because it’s completely unnecessary as long as you have a proper filesystem? Feb 02 19:49
mitsuhiko and config files collect stuff to Feb 02 19:49
mitsuhiko and it’s not impossible to remove, who told you that? Feb 02 19:49
MinceR config files are kept separate for the apps they apply to Feb 02 19:49
MinceR and are easily removed per app if necessary Feb 02 19:49
MinceR also, config files are easily fixed if there’s a problem because they’re text Feb 02 19:49
jose ms controls how the registry works.. the code managing the “registry” is closed Feb 02 19:49
MinceR mitsuhiko: cruft is impossible to remove Feb 02 19:49
MinceR it’s a mess Feb 02 19:50
mitsuhiko jose: and why is that a problem? as long as it works Feb 02 19:50
jose well, who can judge what “removes” even means Feb 02 19:50
MinceR not even microsoft knows what certain values mean in the registry Feb 02 19:50
mitsuhiko MinceR: i rather use the regedit than exim config file editing Feb 02 19:50
mitsuhiko as a nice example Feb 02 19:50
MinceR ( http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F… ) Feb 02 19:50
MinceR mitsuhiko: we already know you have a perverted mind Feb 02 19:50
MinceR also, config files are kept separate per user where it makes sense Feb 02 19:51
mitsuhiko accusing people doesn’t strengthen your point Feb 02 19:51
mitsuhiko MinceR: the registry is user separated Feb 02 19:51
mitsuhiko where it makes sense Feb 02 19:51
MinceR mitsuhiko: you still haven’t told us what replaces the “legacy” registry Feb 02 19:51
mitsuhiko MinceR: %APPDATA Feb 02 19:51
MinceR except for the registry being a single binary blob Feb 02 19:51
mitsuhiko why is it a problem that the registry is a binary file? Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhiko it’s transaction safe and easy to use Feb 02 19:52
MinceR mitsuhiko: also, if it is so perfect, why was it abandoned? Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhiko and maintenance free Feb 02 19:52
MinceR lol, he says “maintenance free” Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhiko MinceR: i suppose because people stuff more and more stuff into it Feb 02 19:53
MinceR text files are transaction safe with the proper editor Feb 02 19:53
mitsuhiko MinceR: MUHAHA Feb 02 19:53
mitsuhiko that’s a joke right? Feb 02 19:53
MinceR nope Feb 02 19:53
MinceR what you’re saying is a joke Feb 02 19:53
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mitsuhiko do you know how hard it is to proper edit a file transaction safe on unix? Feb 02 19:53
MinceR it’s easier than putting words in the proper order in english, apparently :> Feb 02 19:54
jose a registry means what? between what Microsoft sells and what their source code implements there are gaps.. chasms even Feb 02 19:54
mitsuhiko yes, there are file locks, but they are incredible hard to use Feb 02 19:54
PeterKraus maintenance free registry? Feb 02 19:54
PeterKraus sorry, exactly which planet windows you are talking about? Feb 02 19:54
MinceR which reality, not which planet Feb 02 19:55
PeterKraus i’m optimistic Feb 02 19:55
MinceR he’s out of this world Feb 02 19:55
PeterKraus ;) Feb 02 19:55
jose mitsuhiko, i think MinceR has said something about if you use an interface made for that purpose Feb 02 19:55
mitsuhiko PeterKraus: have you ever maintained the registry? Feb 02 19:55
mitsuhiko in the post 9x days Feb 02 19:55
jose no need for file locking coding from the user Feb 02 19:55
PeterKraus well i am trying to get rid of the rubbish in the registry every saturday in my work Feb 02 19:56
PeterKraus for a dozen of customers Feb 02 19:56
PeterKraus and most of the time it’s just faster to charge them £40 more and do a full system restore Feb 02 19:56
mitsuhiko PeterKraus: once the stupid users adapt linux you have the same problem there Feb 02 19:56
MinceR actually we won’t Feb 02 19:56
mitsuhiko you should see what people are able to make out of their OS X systems… Feb 02 19:56
mitsuhiko right. nobody will adopt linux Feb 02 19:56
MinceR osx isn’t linux Feb 02 19:56
MinceR osx is a piece of shit Feb 02 19:56
PeterKraus mitsuhiko: well yes, it depends on the user Feb 02 19:57
PeterKraus my mother is running windows for two years Feb 02 19:57
mitsuhiko MinceR: okay. now you jumped the shark Feb 02 19:57
MinceR it’s a bastardized version of unix with useless layers of sugar coating on top :> Feb 02 19:57
PeterKraus quite flawlessly. Except of the fact, that she uses the computers three times a month Feb 02 19:57
PeterKraus and it’s still half as fast as it was when I left home. Feb 02 19:57
PeterKraus it just gets freaking cluttered all by itself Feb 02 19:58
mitsuhiko MinceR: wrong and wrong Feb 02 19:58
mitsuhiko MinceR: OS X is probably the best designed operating system you can have today Feb 02 19:58
MinceR lol Feb 02 19:58
MinceR more jokes from mitsuhiko tonight Feb 02 19:58
PeterKraus MinceR: sugar? useless? you deserve to die! Feb 02 19:58
PeterKraus :P Feb 02 19:58
mitsuhiko MinceR: explain Feb 02 19:58
MinceR i’m sure taking a microkernel and gluing a bsd compatibility layer onto it _in kernelspace_ counts as great design in microsoftland Feb 02 19:59
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MinceR and bundling separate copies of libraries with each app Feb 02 19:59
mitsuhiko you clearly know how os x works… Feb 02 19:59
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MinceR after all, who wants to share loaded libraries between multiple apps? Feb 02 19:59
MinceR of course, the main selling point is the world’s least flexible mainstream gui out there :> Feb 02 20:00
mitsuhiko MinceR: os x does that for different versions of the library Feb 02 20:00
mitsuhiko something you can’t even have on linux Feb 02 20:00
MinceR different major or minor versions? Feb 02 20:00
jose you can do whatever on linux Feb 02 20:00
jose distros don’t do everything you can do Feb 02 20:00
PeterKraus different versions of library? Feb 02 20:01
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PeterKraus last time i checked i had glib and glib2, e16 and e17, kde3 and kde4 Feb 02 20:01
jose and yes not all the plumbing is there for everything to avoid hacks Feb 02 20:01
mitsuhiko PeterKraus: that are different libraries, not versions Feb 02 20:01
MinceR the former is a bad idea because it leads to api incompatibility; the latter is already done by linux Feb 02 20:01
PeterKraus ARE YOU BLIND?!?! Feb 02 20:01
MinceR hm, how is glib a different library from glib2? Feb 02 20:02
mitsuhiko okay. i leave you alone know. there is no point in discussing with you Feb 02 20:02
jose it’s a naming issue Feb 02 20:02
MinceR indeed, we know what we’re talking about and you don’t Feb 02 20:02
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schestowitz wb, GoblinRFD Feb 02 20:04
GoblinRFD hi Feb 02 20:04
schestowitz Relink to the post Feb 02 20:04
schestowitz The comments are back too Feb 02 20:04
schestowitz I got mail from Asay moments ago Feb 02 20:04
schestowitz They’re happy with what we do in BN Feb 02 20:04
GoblinRFD yeah I saw thanks…. Feb 02 20:04
GoblinRFD ASAY? Feb 02 20:04
schestowitz Matt Feb 02 20:04
MinceR obviously you don’t expose enough about apple ;) Feb 02 20:05
GoblinRFD Ridley is a new/old one on MS_Watch…. Feb 02 20:05
GoblinRFD hes the one that confessed on behalf of andre Feb 02 20:05
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GoblinRFD just how he knows so much and why he felt the need to confess for Andre I think you can draw your own inference from. Feb 02 20:06
jose all dirt known about ms helps anyone (unfortunately) doing business with them in negotiating terms (ie, it will take longer for them to get screwed) Feb 02 20:06
GoblinRFD Its good to see that MS is trying to find out who I am Feb 02 20:07
schestowitz Apple users sometimes know Apple sucks ethically Feb 02 20:07
schestowitz Like you know that the Linus Foundation (kernel foundation I’d call them) has its defects Feb 02 20:07
schestowitz But I don’t really attack them because I like their work Feb 02 20:07
GoblinRFD I had hidden many ID’s for them to find, just so I could tell how deeply they were looking.  Theyve found the easy one…. Feb 02 20:08
schestowitz Microsoft is dumping ‘free’ software on the Philippines to suppress Free software adoption: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/p… Feb 02 20:10
schestowitz GoblinRFD: whose IDs? Feb 02 20:10
schestowitz Turfers? Feb 02 20:10
GoblinRFD ah…. Feb 02 20:10
amd-linux good evening Feb 02 20:11
GoblinRFD no id’s for me…..to see if MS or its shillers were trying to find out who I am Feb 02 20:11
GoblinRFD they’ve already quoted one which they thought was me. Feb 02 20:11
amd-linux just to let you know that you now can get a netbook for 149 euros here in Germany Feb 02 20:11
amd-linux of course it comes with Linux Feb 02 20:11
GoblinRFD The fools actually believed that Ramasees Niblick was my real name….. Feb 02 20:11
amd-linux just because I read this story of the 8 USD Indian netbook Feb 02 20:12
schestowitz GoblinRFD: if you know their shills and nyms, add them to here: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/inde… Feb 02 20:12
GoblinRFD unfortunately for them, its actually the name of a mad robot called Gilbert who changed his name (Red Dwarf) Feb 02 20:12
schestowitz amd-linux: : I don’t know. They’d have to snub patents and do it all in India/China Feb 02 20:13
GoblinRFD Ill need to speak with my contact first…..I have a great one coming up. Feb 02 20:13
schestowitz China has a Linux-base (MIPS) $98 laptop Feb 02 20:13
MinceR http://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.net… Feb 02 20:13
schestowitz The Intel-type thugs bully them. Feb 02 20:13
GoblinRFD …he’s not only a shill, but he has numerous other business interests on the net….. Feb 02 20:13
amd-linux but is this cheap netbook really available? Feb 02 20:13
amd-linux this one here is for real and they are planing to sell it via amazon too Feb 02 20:13
amd-linux http://www.one.de/shop/product_info.php?… Feb 02 20:14
schestowitz MinceR: *LOL* thanls. Feb 02 20:14
MinceR np Feb 02 20:14
GoblinRFD Ive also got another shiller (which I need to be careful with) who I believe was caught out by Perverted Justice.com….Im confirming a few IP’s before I name and shame though. Feb 02 20:14
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schestowitz amd-linux: some people called it a scam before Feb 02 20:14
amd-linux ok, the machine is not really good Feb 02 20:15
amd-linux the hardware Feb 02 20:15
amd-linux but it is question of time when we will see sub 100 Euro netbooks Feb 02 20:15
amd-linux breaking this barrier means MS has to come up with some really nice “incentives” Feb 02 20:16
GoblinRFD I think we will and shortly…..<100 Feb 02 20:16
schestowitz “Server Load  3.47 (4 cpus) ø per second: 86.88″ Feb 02 20:16
amd-linux for netbook producers in order to compete with linux machines Feb 02 20:16
schestowitz amd-linux: no amd in these Linuxes? Feb 02 20:17
schestowitz Maybe ARM Feb 02 20:17
schestowitz Or Chinese MIPS Feb 02 20:17
amd-linux no, all via…. Feb 02 20:17
schestowitz Longhoon or whatever it’s called Feb 02 20:17
schestowitz Oh, VIA too. Feb 02 20:17
amd-linux amd and intel were quite focused on the desktop/notebook market Feb 02 20:18
schestowitz Server Feb 02 20:19
amd-linux roy u sure that all the page impressions are actually users? Feb 02 20:19
schestowitz That’s where they sell the premium processors ($$$). It’s also why the main wars are over CPUs desktops don’t need (quad and octas) Feb 02 20:20
amd-linux I mean could be search engines, bots whatever? Feb 02 20:20
schestowitz amd-linux: yes, I see what they are Feb 02 20:20
schestowitz amd-linux: some are, on the db Feb 02 20:20
amd-linux I had many hits from blog spam bots Feb 02 20:21
schestowitz About 1 GB a day is consumed by SEs Feb 02 20:21
schestowitz amd-linux: I had those too in schestowitz.com Feb 02 20:21
amd-linux one server in switzerland flooded me – obviously taken over Feb 02 20:21
amd-linux ok did not check Feb 02 20:21
amd-linux I just redirect these guys to a nonexistent machine in my LAN :-) Feb 02 20:22
amd-linux guess your site got the successor of Groklaw more or less Feb 02 20:22
GoblinRFD Gotta go for a while……..wife beckons…… Feb 02 20:23
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amd-linux how was it possible that high traffic could kill off your db? just curious Feb 02 20:24
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schestowitz I don’t know for sure Feb 02 20:24
schestowitz The host got back to me (actually, two admins did) Feb 02 20:24
schestowitz It wasn’t serious but it can recut Feb 02 20:24
schestowitz recut Feb 02 20:25
schestowitz *recur Feb 02 20:25
schestowitz There’s nothing preventing this (pardon the typos) Feb 02 20:25
amd-linux I moved to virtual servers and WP Backup Feb 02 20:25
amd-linux when I fear an intrusion, I just replay a VM snapshot Feb 02 20:25
schestowitz Groklaw made a DB-friendly front page to reduce load. The FP in BN does like 100 DB queries per load. Feb 02 20:25
amd-linux and import the backup from WP Feb 02 20:26
schestowitz amd-linux: personal or corporate site? Feb 02 20:26
schestowitz BN is not mission-critical Feb 02 20:26
schestowitz It’s not a busiiness, just a mission Feb 02 20:26
amd-linux personal …. Feb 02 20:26
schestowitz I’ll make backups more often now… every few hours. Feb 02 20:27
amd-linux heck, you produce an article every few hours – you need to backup more often :-) Feb 02 20:27
-Martinp23-[Global Notice] Hi folks! Earlier one of our leaf (client) servers had a few connection issues. This was due to latency issues on the sponsor’s network. Fortunately, the sponsor now reports that the problems have been resolved and so everything is back to normal. We’re very sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks for using freenode and have a nice day! Feb 02 20:28
schestowitz amarsh04: I made a backup 4 hours before the crash Feb 02 20:29
schestowitz The server was rebooted Feb 02 20:29
amd-linux I am not sure if WP / MySQL is a good combination for extremely high loads in general Feb 02 20:29
schestowitz I don’t know Feb 02 20:29
amd-linux on the other site, it is easy to maintain Feb 02 20:29
schestowitz I’ve done Nuke, phpwiki, wikimedia, bibref, gallery, etc. Feb 02 20:29
schestowitz I never did Drupal. Feb 02 20:30
schestowitz For blogging I’ve always used WordPress since the beginnign. Feb 02 20:30
amd-linux I had installed Drupal on a uncommon port on a testserver – was hacked in 8 weeks Feb 02 20:30
schestowitz I’m among the early WordPress-Hackers Feb 02 20:30
schestowitz crackeed? Feb 02 20:30
amd-linux Drupal is quite complex, with all the plugins you need Feb 02 20:30
amd-linux cracked yes Feb 02 20:30
schestowitz Yikes Feb 02 20:31
schestowitz Linux Feb 02 20:31
schestowitz ? Feb 02 20:31
amd-linux we discussed in in the Ubuntu forums Feb 02 20:31
schestowitz Up to date? Feb 02 20:31
amd-linux Not drupal, but I think it was an SQL injection Feb 02 20:31
schestowitz Are you amdlinux from LT and GL? Feb 02 20:31
amd-linux low level access Feb 02 20:31
amd-linux Samhain detected it … Feb 02 20:32
amd-linux so I am now paranoid :-) Feb 02 20:32
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schestowitz phpbb got me last year Feb 02 20:32
schestowitz It had an uploder bug Feb 02 20:32
schestowitz Many sites got exploited this way Feb 02 20:32
amd-linux there is only one amd-linux around :-) I think nobody else uses my nick Feb 02 20:32
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schestowitz The trolls and my haters used it to spread libel Feb 02 20:33
schestowitz They exaggerated the issue and made false testimonies under many nyms Feb 02 20:33
schestowitz Well, my box here is amd linux Feb 02 20:33
amd-linux well you can not rule out that somebody uses a certain nick Feb 02 20:33
schestowitz amdriva Feb 02 20:33
schestowitz I saw  ‘fake’ PJs Feb 02 20:33
schestowitz So it needs to be asked Feb 02 20:34
schestowitz I saw a fake Torvalds too Feb 02 20:34
amd-linux when you see my IP – from this network, that is most likely me :-) Feb 02 20:34
schestowitz I asked him about it (the real one) and he said it was fake Feb 02 20:34
amd-linux haha fake Linus Feb 02 20:34
schestowitz Real Slim Shady Feb 02 20:35
amd-linux but thats why I use nick – it is harder when somebody uses your real name… Feb 02 20:35
amd-linux there are strange guys on the net – I saw what some idiots try to spread about u on usent Feb 02 20:37
amd-linux usenet Feb 02 20:37
amd-linux it is a lesson from my FidoNet times Feb 02 20:37
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jose may come back later.. Feb 02 20:42
schestowitz OK, cool. Feb 02 20:42
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schestowitz Another company dies: DRAM Prices Spike After Qimonda Bankruptcy < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158708/dr… > Feb 02 20:59
schestowitz Tories choose sub-prime beard for maths post < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… > Feb 02 21:08
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schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l… ” Linux folks have gotten into the habit of buying devices with Intel graphics not because they are state of the art but because they have reliable open source drivers.” Feb 02 21:33
schestowitz amd-linux: sorry I didn’t respond before Feb 02 21:33
schestowitz I was focused on another vt Feb 02 21:34
amd-linux no problem had to feed the cat anyway :-) Feb 02 21:36
amd-linux forgot to mention that my machine was cracked short after I published a story why it makes sense to ban IE 6 from a blog to prevent blog spam Feb 02 21:37
amd-linux story got dugg, got spread and 2 weeks later the site was infested…. Ubuntu server, Drupal Feb 02 21:37
amd-linux that does mean anything, could be just accidental Feb 02 21:38
schestowitz Novell says today it’ll acquire more companies Feb 02 21:38
amd-linux but I got paranoid… having your machine owned makes you feel like somebody went inside your home Feb 02 21:38
schestowitz Ain’t I delighted. Feb 02 21:39
amd-linux how do they pay? with what? Feb 02 21:39
amd-linux shares? Feb 02 21:39
schestowitz amd-linux: most WIndows user get cracked (multiple times even) and they don’t even know about it Feb 02 21:39
schestowitz (unless some money vanishes from the bank and they try to balem the bank) Feb 02 21:39
amd-linux thats why I switched all over to Ubuntu – whole family :-) Feb 02 21:40
schestowitz amd-linux: in the Land of the Fee, imaginary property can buy many things Feb 02 21:40
amd-linux maybe novell wants to buy a bank – they are cheap at the moment :-) Feb 02 21:40
schestowitz Microsoft wasd going to land tens of billions to -kill google- buy yahoo! Feb 02 21:40
schestowitz *lend Feb 02 21:40
schestowitz amd-linux: banks are cheap because nobody wants them :-) Feb 02 21:41
amd-linux well, most retail banks here in europe are doing great (Santander, Barclyas) Feb 02 21:41
amd-linux but american and british investment bank just collapsed. Interesting times we live in…. Feb 02 21:42
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jose I’m coming on for a short bit to add something to an earlier conversation (for the record) Feb 02 21:42
amd-linux anyway, gotta go. Take of your server, yesterday was boring because of no news from BN :-) Feb 02 21:42
amd-linux take care I mean… Feb 02 21:42
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jose bn is spreading drugs.. see how its users can’t even go a single day without it. Feb 02 21:43
jose ….lock-in data is a major problem/cost/security issue/etc for proprietary sw Feb 02 21:44
jose the other data is also very important Feb 02 21:44
jose the data that defines the state of the system (or how it was put there) is something that you get with foss Feb 02 21:44
jose but you don’t get with closed tools (in a guaranteed fashion).. Feb 02 21:45
jose and much less if those tools only have gui interfaces Feb 02 21:45
schestowitz I think Compiz is eating away one of my cores.. something eats up resources Feb 02 21:45
schestowitz I might need to kick up KDE Feb 02 21:45
jose regardless of the interface though, what did the admin do to the system? what did the hr person do to it? Feb 02 21:45
schestowitz Barclys? Feb 02 21:45
jose you can’t tell when you use closed source Feb 02 21:45
schestowitz Barcleys? Feb 02 21:46
schestowitz They got a portion of them bought by a Dubai prince. Feb 02 21:46
jose audit is weak if you can’t audit the auditing tools, ie. Feb 02 21:46
schestowitz British wealth in middle-eastern hands. Who woulda’ thunk this 50 years ago? Feb 02 21:46
schestowitz jose: I heard this about GL Feb 02 21:47
schestowitz When PJ took ‘heath break’ Feb 02 21:47
jose “barclays” i think right Feb 02 21:47
schestowitz I don’t know Feb 02 21:47
schestowitz Maybe Germany bank.. Feb 02 21:47
jose she took health break and what? Feb 02 21:48
schestowitz The stock surge sharply after sinking to bottom low (worst ever) Feb 02 21:48
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcli… Feb 02 21:48
schestowitz Yes, Google corrects that Feb 02 21:48
schestowitz jose: people joking about GL withdrawal symptoms at the time. Feb 02 21:49
jose i have to leave soon.. what news of pj? Feb 02 21:49
schestowitz Not much Feb 02 21:50
schestowitz Might not return to normal Feb 02 21:51
schestowitz BN inherits some GL readers Feb 02 21:51
jose so gl has been on freeze for some time now, huh? Feb 02 21:51
jose i hardly visit out of blue Feb 02 21:51
jose and lt hasn’t posted anything recently Feb 02 21:51
schestowitz Novell might be the next SCO, but different tactics Feb 02 21:51
jose you said they were taking a time out or folding Feb 02 21:51
jose that’s what appears to have been the case Feb 02 21:52
schestowitz did you see lt pageviews? Feb 02 21:52
schestowitz the bn item got 11k pageviews there Feb 02 21:52
jose for the last bn story.. yes Feb 02 21:52
schestowitz I never saw that before Feb 02 21:52
jose if you look at news months old, you can find many thousand Feb 02 21:52
schestowitz I saw 6k for one of our stories, but this is fantastic Feb 02 21:52
jose but on something recent, that is very uncommon Feb 02 21:52
schestowitz jose: because of bots Feb 02 21:52
jose for various reasons i’m sure Feb 02 21:53
schestowitz Old stories hardly do much. believe me, old LT pages maybe give a handful of visits per month Feb 02 21:53
jose at one time, i kept opening up ff with a “thousand” tabs, many of which were to old lt articles Feb 02 21:53
jose bots/people downloading for posterity… etc Feb 02 21:53
schestowitz We used to make full BN download Feb 02 21:54
schestowitz The host blocked it Feb 02 21:54
schestowitz Too DB-intensive Feb 02 21:54
schestowitz I see more of the propaganda in the news. Theme: “Microsoft is growing” Feb 02 22:02
schestowitz Reason: recent layoffs .. must use damage control for the illusion that Microsoft will still be there in the future. Feb 02 22:02
jose [to finish with earlier "data" monolog].. Feb 02 22:03
jose foss doesn’t have to leave a trail, but it’s open so you can ascertain that.. generally, bunches of apps/servers leave extensive logs and configuration/automation is text based.. or at least in a format that is open (matched by the source). Feb 02 22:04
jose with proprie.. you can’t know smoley with any real confidence. Feb 02 22:05
schestowitz What do you know about Linux at Kazakhstan? Feb 02 22:06
schestowitz Microsoft is trying to pull EDGI(ish) there. Feb 02 22:06
jose nothing Feb 02 22:06
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclien… Feb 02 22:06
jose known by me Feb 02 22:06
PeterKraus did you guys see the recent Vista7 UAC messup? Feb 02 22:06
MinceR i’ve seen an article on /. Feb 02 22:07
schestowitz I’m surprised by how little I’ve seen and taken note of.. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie… Feb 02 22:07
PeterKraus yeah Feb 02 22:07
*PeterKraus is now known as PetoKraus Feb 02 22:07
schestowitz Just the recent departure of MS’ leader there. Feb 02 22:07
schestowitz MS tries getting critics off its back: http://www.fiercecio.com/story/micro… (Microsoft lays off H-1B workers) LOADS of articles like this Feb 02 22:08
schestowitz uac is now far from the word yak! Feb 02 22:09
PetoKraus well Feb 02 22:10
PetoKraus we know what’s the truth Feb 02 22:10
schestowitz Microsoft lobbied Obama transition team on high-skilled immigration weeks before announcing layoffs < http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtrack… > Feb 02 22:10
schestowitz I watched a video earlier about how corporations can run the government in this fashion through extortion, which is not news, just more repetition of the obvious. Feb 02 22:11
jose what do you mean? because of foreign involvement? Feb 02 22:11
schestowitz BN: “ø per second: 89.82″ Feb 02 22:14
schestowitz jose: no, local involvement Feb 02 22:14
jose roy, will let you know when i put something readable together.. but let me know if you have some sort of deadline that would be useful. Feb 02 22:14
schestowitz But Microsoft is foreign to ‘the states’. Feb 02 22:14
jose what does that have to do with h1b Feb 02 22:14
schestowitz It’s more like an alien– a species that harvests mere mortals in the US through ‘computer tax’ that they need never really have paid Feb 02 22:15
schestowitz jose: the lobby? All about visas Feb 02 22:15
schestowitz They pull an Abramoff on Obamoff Feb 02 22:15
jose ok never mind… Feb 02 22:15
jose will sign off… Feb 02 22:15
*jose has quit (“Leaving”) Feb 02 22:17
schestowitz Microsoft Stock Dips < http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/… > Feb 02 22:17
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-1e-2a-29-69-de.k112.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 02 22:18
*r0ver has quit (Connection timed out) Feb 02 22:18
schestowitz The Times misses the point: It’s the CRIME, not the cost. http://www.computingsa.co.za/arti… Feb 02 22:19
schestowitz BIllyPress hails the (robber) baron for funding pharma patents.. sheesh.. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl… Feb 02 22:20
schestowitz Here’s a smart site that gives people the publication as PDF: http://www.sdtimes.com/content/SDTim… Feb 02 22:25
schestowitz Taiwan boosts spending to lower joblessness < http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/02/0… > Feb 02 22:27
schestowitz “Suddenly Jobless at Microsoft? Remember that Jobless in Seattle is now also available on Blogspot. ” http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/jobl… Feb 02 22:28
schestowitz http://unemployedseattle.blogspot.com/ Feb 02 22:28
*Casperin has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 02 22:41
*r0ver (n=r0ver@200-122-96-173.cab.prima.net.ar) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 02 22:41
twitter did you see the guy with the blue monster tattoo got fired? Feb 02 22:42
schestowitz Windows Vista stuck on single digit enterprise adoption < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02… > been out for how long now? Over 2 years Feb 02 22:42
schestowitz twitter: yes, I saw that in 2 reports Feb 02 22:42
schestowitz Gizmono and Seattle P-I Feb 02 22:42
twitter adoption plans keep falling too but you can’t really trust forrester. Feb 02 22:43
schestowitz See this (my reply hasn’t shown up yet): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.lin… Feb 02 22:43
schestowitz Another goodie for Vista7 ammunitionLog Feb 02 22:43
schestowitz Forrester is corrupt Feb 02 22:44
schestowitz It made money from Linux bashing Feb 02 22:44
schestowitz Microsoft paid them for it Feb 02 22:44
trmanco :O Feb 02 22:44
trmanco found some good proof about stats Feb 02 22:44
trmanco http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2008/12/03… Feb 02 22:44
schestowitz If you want the link, I’ll fetch it Feb 02 22:44
twitter ah Feb 02 22:45
schestowitz :-) Feb 02 22:45
schestowitz I responded to the in COLA too Feb 02 22:45
twitter cool, gotta go again Feb 02 22:46
schestowitz I posted stats to COLA Feb 02 22:56
trmanco yep Feb 02 22:57
trmanco just saw this links there Feb 02 22:57
schestowitz Reptition counts Feb 02 23:02
schestowitz Microsoft tries to creare a ‘consensus’ that “Linux<1%” Feb 02 23:02
schestowitz Not even _for desktop alone_ is this true. It’s a big lie, much like 90% of the Americans love Bush Feb 02 23:02
schestowitz amarsh04: see “Australia Faces Collapse as Climate Change Kicks in: Are the Southwest and California Next?” < http://www.alternet.org/water/124689/austral… > Feb 02 23:05
schestowitz Is This the Solution to Spam? < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/… > Feb 02 23:08
schestowitz Heavy snow here today…. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/… Feb 02 23:29
PetoKraus hmm Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/r… Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz If only I remembered where I installed it Feb 02 23:32
PetoKraus it rains, england is drowning. It snows, england is frozen Feb 02 23:32
PetoKraus we, in the north, are just laughing Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz ┌─(roy@localhost Mon, 02 Feb 09)─————— —————————————————— —————─(/home/roy)────┐ Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz └─(23:32 $)─> find | grep googleearth-bi Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz Oh.. it’s in the KDE menu Feb 02 23:34
*kapipi (n=tor@0x3e42d97a.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 02 23:34
MinceR gn Feb 02 23:35
PetoKraus gn² Feb 02 23:36
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 2 23:42:24 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Feb 02 23:42
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] Feb 02 23:42
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 Feb 02 23:42
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Feb 02 23:42
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. Feb 02 23:42
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz Feb 02 23:42
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Feb 02 23:42
schestowitz Blobs=poison Feb 02 23:42
schestowitz Googleearth=googlebomb. F*ed up kwin, I need to restart KDE Feb 02 23:43
*kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 02 23:45
schestowitz http://ostatic.com/blog/how-lo… “Joe ‘Zonker’ Brockmeier is a longtime FOSS advocate, and currently works for Novell as the community manager for openSUSE. Prior to joining Novell, Brockmeier worked as a technology journalist covering the open source beat for a number of publications, including Linux Magazine, Linux Weekly News, Linux.com, UnixReview.com, IBM developerWorks, and many others.” Feb 02 23:59
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A Single Comment

  1. Michael said,

    February 3, 2009 at 12:48 am


    I can’t believe I just read through all 3 logs. I guess i’m bored at work.

    You get some strange visitors.

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