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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 27th, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 12:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

seller_liar schestowitz: a one good thing + another bad thing = another good thing Feb 27 14:19
amarsh04 s/a large/has a large/ Feb 27 14:19
schestowitz It was said explicitly that people would realise what they were really up to had the corporations not done something nice to the cameras every now and then. Feb 27 14:19
schestowitz amarsh04: that’s good. Who sponsors it? Feb 27 14:20
amarsh04 it’s the government’s restriction on tobacco advertising – only at point of sale and only brand names and health warnings allowed Feb 27 14:21
schestowitz Glamorisation of tobacco is pretty much a dead thing, but alcohol is still advocated a lot (unless you’re child, in which case you just see signposts about it but you can’t buy this ‘desirable’ drug). Feb 27 14:21
seller_liar amarsh04: This is very good , because a one bad thing  (disease) + another  bad thing ( cigarretes) = a more worst bad thing Feb 27 14:21
amarsh04 no brand names mentionable without the colour pictures of diseased body parts Feb 27 14:21
seller_liar amarsh04: Because of this large image, people rejects cigarretes more Feb 27 14:21
schestowitz amarsh04: it does what it says on the tin then. :-) Feb 27 14:22
schestowitz For a change, cigarettes don’t lead to wealth and sex. Feb 27 14:23
amarsh04 I had to tell grand-daughter that smoking would harm her ability to sing – something she likes doing Feb 27 14:23
amarsh04 and grand-daughter remembers that her great-grandmother smoked and had the same gangrenous feet Feb 27 14:23
seller_liar amarsh04: yes, this is skinner theory Feb 27 14:24
seller_liar amarsh04: bad thing + another bad thing = a more bad thing Feb 27 14:24
seller_liar amarsh04: reinforcement theory Feb 27 14:24
seller_liar seller_liar: people can destroy bad habits reinforcing about the dangers about that habit Feb 27 14:25
seller_liar amarsh04: : people can destroy bad habits reinforcing about the dangers about that habit Feb 27 14:26
seller_liar amarsh04: Like the big image does Feb 27 14:26
amarsh04 yes, seller_liar Feb 27 14:26
seller_liar amarsh04: but ,, Feb 27 14:26
seller_liar amarsh04: good habits  can be destroyed too…. Feb 27 14:26
seller_liar amarsh04: like propaganda does Feb 27 14:26
seller_liar amarsh04: for example , coca-cola use a lot of happy images to sell more Feb 27 14:27
seller_liar amarsh04: this works Feb 27 14:27
schestowitz it does Feb 27 14:27
schestowitz films too Feb 27 14:27
schestowitz A culture where “I’ll have a coke” is like “bless you” or “cya later” Feb 27 14:27
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes, a lot  of movies put a lot of banner in climax scenes Feb 27 14:28
amarsh04 grand-daughter had another good re-inforcement yesterday… we found a bag in the car park where we were visiting and I was just calling the police to see what would be appropriate to do with it when the owner turned up and bought grand-daughter an icecream Feb 27 14:28
seller_liar schestowitz: People will remember the best scene of movie, but it will remember the banner too Feb 27 14:29
schestowitz I guess it’s the cost of watching films Feb 27 14:29
schestowitz There are indirect costs Feb 27 14:29
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes, but forces people to buy more and more things Feb 27 14:30
amarsh04 I finally saw “Master & Commander: the far side of the world” plus the dvd extras this week Feb 27 14:30
amarsh04 Peter Weir went out of his way to explain some of the film-making, and the coverage of the Galapogas islands and music development for the film was also great Feb 27 14:31
seller_liar schestowitz: and worst , forces people to buy thing without think about ethicsa Feb 27 14:31
schestowitz Gut feeling Feb 27 14:32
amarsh04 I put off buying as long as possible Feb 27 14:32
amarsh04 last cd purchase was for my mum – Paul Robeson (Old man river and songs from that era) AUD$10 Feb 27 14:33
seller_liar schestowitz: Another example , a lot of car companies uses woman to sell more cars Feb 27 14:33
seller_liar schestowitz: Sexy woman ( good thing ) + car = car is a good thing Feb 27 14:34
amarsh04 am also maintaining current vehicles until is not feasible to get parts to repair them Feb 27 14:34
seller_liar amarsh04: Did you remember the m$ propagand which uses madonna song to promote windows Xp? Feb 27 14:35
seller_liar amarsh04: this is another example of reinforcement theory Feb 27 14:35
amarsh04 ABC Classic FM is more into participation – over 700 hours of live concerts broadcast, plus many free concerts Feb 27 14:35
seller_liar schestowitz: madonna song ( good thing ) + windows xp ( very bad thing) = windows is a good thing Feb 27 14:36
amarsh04 I don’t even remember santana performing “Smooth” for windows xp Feb 27 14:36
amarsh04 I do remember the rolling stones “start me up” for windows 95 Feb 27 14:36
seller_liar amarsh04: I remember too Feb 27 14:37
schestowitz amarsh04: yes, radios is under threat now too Feb 27 14:38
schestowitz The RIAA is trying to tax Internet radio out of business Feb 27 14:38
amarsh04 ABC Classic FM has managed to stream live and deals directly with the living artists that it broadcasts Feb 27 14:39
schestowitz seller_liar: let’s face it. Microsoft is a legal/marketing company. Feb 27 14:39
schestowitz The other part of acquisition of companies and ‘stealing’ of ideas Feb 27 14:40
schestowitz Google is the same with the exception of search Feb 27 14:40
schestowitz Search gave it smart engineer ans branding power to sell old technology like E-mail. Feb 27 14:40
schestowitz Things like Google Apps they just bought Feb 27 14:40
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes this is a bad thing Feb 27 14:40
amarsh04 the down side is that while we get live broadcasts of classical music, we don’t get broadcasts of orchestras performing with artists enslaved to record companies Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz Why compete? Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz Just buy yourself a factiuon Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz Make camps Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz “Co-opetition” Feb 27 14:41
amarsh04 that’s an old Novell word Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz That’s not capitalism-inspired principles Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz It’s a farce Feb 27 14:41
seller_liar schestowitz: People with power in one aspect (search ) uses this power to gain more power (apps ,mail etc…) Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz it’s not free market either when the economy collapses and the public is handed a bill to pay Feb 27 14:41
schestowitz amarsh04: true. Noorda. Feb 27 14:42
seller_liar schestowitz: I know roy , but people still dont think about ethics. Feb 27 14:42
seller_liar schestowitz: People only thinks in consuming and production Feb 27 14:42
schestowitz They are taught not to Feb 27 14:42
seller_liar schestowitz: While people don t change, the world will suffer Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz They are told that the pseudo democracy where saying “no” to decisions sometimes is “public participation” is good for them Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz Teomocracy Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz Veto democracy Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz If you don’t like it, use free of speech and march the streets Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz That’s US ‘democracy’ Feb 27 14:43
seller_liar schestowitz: The good guys that like about ethics must save the society Feb 27 14:43
schestowitz Presidential candidates don’t rise from the public’s rank either Feb 27 14:43
seller_liar schestowitz: Rms for example gives a good contribution to society , Feb 27 14:44
seller_liar schestowitz: We must promote more ethics to people Feb 27 14:44
seller_liar schestowitz: We need to create a infrastructure to promote ethcis Feb 27 14:45
seller_liar schestowitz: But I don t know how to do Feb 27 14:45
seller_liar schestowitz: BN helps a lot , but only about microsoft and allies Feb 27 14:46
seller_liar schestowitz: We need to build a infrastructure capable to show about coca cola ,mcdonalds, nike , phillip morris Feb 27 14:46
schestowitz Why not create “planet”? Feb 27 14:47
seller_liar schestowitz: in a community and informal way , ( wikis, analysis , reflection ,opinions all) ,all about ethics Feb 27 14:47
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes, But I don t have time . Feb 27 14:47
seller_liar seller_liar: We need to create a community oriented way Feb 27 14:48
seller_liar schestowitz: : We need to create a community oriented way Feb 27 14:48
seller_liar schestowitz: : People does ethical analysis about a company and them publishes to planet Feb 27 14:48
seller_liar schestowitz: Blogosphere is good source of people Feb 27 14:49
seller_liar schestowitz: A good infrasctructure = Blogsphere(analysts) + planet Feb 27 14:49
schestowitz There’s Wikileaks Feb 27 14:49
schestowitz For original evidence. Feb 27 14:50
seller_liar schestowitz: of course , but we must receive opinions too Feb 27 14:50
seller_liar schestowitz: Opinion is not 100% fact , but is a good point of reflection Feb 27 14:50
schestowitz That’s what I write about at this very moment Feb 27 14:50
schestowitz A leak about corruption Feb 27 14:50
seller_liar schestowitz: We don t need to base all everything using only facts Feb 27 14:50
seller_liar schestowitz: Opinions are impoant too Feb 27 14:51
amarsh04 back in a few, loading new kernel Feb 27 14:55
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schestowitz seller_liar: see http://wikileaks.se/lea… Feb 27 14:56
schestowitz Disgusting Feb 27 14:56
schestowitz It’s hijacked by MS shills. Feb 27 14:56
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes , this is very sad Feb 27 14:57
seller_liar schestowitz: M$ is the most crazy company I have seen Feb 27 14:58
seller_liar schestowitz: Microsoft  needs to be exterminated of this world Feb 27 14:58
MinceR agreed Feb 27 14:58
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Balrog hey everyone Feb 27 15:14
Balrog they’re complaining about my complaint about mono Feb 27 15:14
Balrog my issues aren’t with it not building, but rather them shifting the blame right away to someone else instead of helping find out what’s really wrong Feb 27 15:15
Balrog I’ve worked with other FOSS projects before. Feb 27 15:15
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Balrog schestowitz: what do you think? Feb 27 15:15
schestowitz I am so annoyed to read this doc Feb 27 15:28
schestowitz Have a look: http://wikileaks.se/leak/eu-oss-s… Feb 27 15:28
schestowitz Balrog: yes, I saw that. Mono’s friends jump in to save the emperor Feb 27 15:29
MinceR any specific parts to look at? Feb 27 15:30
Balrog what he doesn’t get is that I’m not complaining about the svn, or the bug, but rather the mentality of them Feb 27 15:30
Balrog a real FOSS project will help you no matter what distro you’re on (you want everyone to use it, right?) Feb 27 15:30
Balrog also, I was trying to compile svn to test some stuff, so no, it wasn’t to ‘prove a point’ Feb 27 15:31
Balrog but the response from miguel wasn’t very helpful. Feb 27 15:31
MinceR what if it’s a package manager? :) Feb 27 15:32
MinceR …or a distro? Feb 27 15:32
Balrog a package maintainer wouldn’t try running svn Feb 27 15:32
MinceR are those not real FOSS projects? :> Feb 27 15:32
Balrog heh Feb 27 15:33
Balrog I meant those upstream of distros or package managers Feb 27 15:33
Balrog those that write the code for (more) critical stuff Feb 27 15:33
Balrog interesting that gentoo has patches for two of Mono’s bugs in their tree Feb 27 15:34
Balrog (Mono 2.2 this is) Feb 27 15:34
schestowitz don’t feed the mono boosters is my advise Feb 27 15:36
schestowitz I have reasons to suspect they are close to novell (not just geographically) Feb 27 15:36
Balrog well if they want to boost mono, they shouldn’t act this way Feb 27 15:36
schestowitz MinceR: he’s what you’ll see Feb 27 15:37
Balrog *really* want to boost mono, that is Feb 27 15:37
schestowitz The anti-FOSS parts are from MS lobbyists Feb 27 15:37
schestowitz The whole panel is poisoned Feb 27 15:37
schestowitz Jonathan Zuck and other shills Feb 27 15:37
schestowitz It’s chaos Feb 27 15:37
Balrog sure is. Feb 27 15:39
MinceR schestowitz: i mean, in the pdf you linked Feb 27 15:39
Balrog yeah Feb 27 15:39
Balrog ohh Feb 27 15:40
Balrog microsoft apparently killed the rest of their simulation software division Feb 27 15:40
Balrog first Flight Simulator (a great product btw, not something I say very much about MS products), and now the rest apparently is going Feb 27 15:41
Balrog http://tech.slashdot.org/article.p… Feb 27 15:42
schestowitz It’s self explanatory Feb 27 15:47
schestowitz See the OSS-hotile stuff Feb 27 15:47
schestowitz Omissions, crossing outs.. Feb 27 15:47
schestowitz Erwin  (from OOo) is there too peddling the SAP party line. Feb 27 15:47
schestowitz Truly appalling. Feb 27 15:47
MinceR oh, i’ve found something Feb 27 15:50
PetoKraus right Feb 27 15:52
PetoKraus i’m gonna need a wee bit of help Feb 27 15:52
PetoKraus what’s the state of OSS adoption in Germany? Feb 27 15:52
PetoKraus *FOSS Feb 27 15:53
schestowitz Quite OK, why? Feb 27 16:13
MinceR hm, is there a good summary of the state of FLOSS adoption in governments of earth? Feb 27 16:14
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schestowitz Wall Street is in chaos today Feb 27 16:17
schestowitz http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090227/… Feb 27 16:18
schestowitz Watch Citigroup Feb 27 16:18
schestowitz $1.70 Feb 27 16:18
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schestowitz Novell puts Linux on sale as earnings disappoint < http://news.cnet.com/8301-… > Feb 27 16:25
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=13590 “Novell’s fiscal first quarter results were a mixed bag and Linux invoices fell sharply as the company failed to sign big deals.” Feb 27 16:27
schestowitz ” [SUSE] Linux invoices fell sharpyl” Feb 27 16:27
schestowitz Good. Feb 27 16:27
schestowitz Red Hat is up Feb 27 16:27
balzac good news Feb 27 16:40
schestowitz Novell will have to announce the layoffs shortly. it’s history. Feb 27 16:41
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Omar871 Hi all Feb 27 16:41
schestowitz Hey there. Feb 27 16:42
Omar871 How’s it going? Feb 27 16:43
schestowitz Dow Jones almost in 6000s territories. The corruption is killing not only them though. Feb 27 16:43
balzac Roy, you’re delivering good news on such a consistent basis. Feb 27 16:43
schestowitz balzac: : thanks, I did some Microsoft news today Feb 27 16:43
schestowitz Now the news that MSNBC will report though Feb 27 16:43
balzac Lemme check BN Feb 27 16:43
balzac Microsoft is about to do a core-dump in their pants Feb 27 16:47
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schestowitz balzac: I need your help Feb 27 16:57
schestowitz As always, it’s done quickly and sloppily, but at least it’s something I can use in the future to point at evidence (PDFs/count docs):  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/… Feb 27 17:19
balzac Roy, how can I help? Feb 27 17:32
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schestowitz Never mind. I wanted you to help proofread the above Feb 27 17:43
schestowitz There’s another article now: How to Hijack an EU Open Source Strategy Paper < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-… > Feb 27 17:44
Balrog yeah I see that Feb 27 17:44
Balrog mentions that if 7 gets stuck in EU antitrust court, it may be delayed Feb 27 17:45
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schestowitz UN anti-blasphemy measures have sinister goals, observers say < http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/… > Feb 27 18:30
schestowitz “But while the draft’s sponsors say it and earlier similar measures are aimed at preventing violence against worshippers regardless of religion, religious tolerance advocates warn the resolutions are being accumulated for a more sinister goal.” Feb 27 18:30
schestowitz http://eyaloren.org/semperwiki.html ” SemperWiki  is an open-source semantic personal Wiki for Gnome. It offers the usability of personal Wikis and the improved retrieval and querying of semantic Wikis. “ Feb 27 18:34
schestowitz Government plans to keep DNA samples of innocent < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/f… > Feb 27 18:39
schestowitz UK supermarkets protest against Iceland’s whaling quota increase < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/fe… > Feb 27 18:40
schestowitz Police in Atlanta sent to jail.:-)  Atlanta police look to restore trust after drug raid killing < http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlan… > Feb 27 18:41
schestowitz balzac: http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/delavega “In this book, former federal prosecutor Elizabeth de la Vega brings her twenty years of experience and passion for justice to what may be the most important case of her career.” Feb 27 18:42
schestowitz “The defendants are George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, and Colin Powell. The crime is tricking the nation into war, or, in legal terms, conspiracy to defraud the United States. “ Feb 27 18:42
balzac sweet Feb 27 18:43
balzac The investigations are about to begin Feb 27 18:43
schestowitz They also overthrew Aristide like a bunch of thugs (or some would say “terrorists”) http://www.seattlemedium.com/news/Article… Feb 27 18:44
balzac the repigs are desparate Feb 27 18:44
balzac they know the sword of damocles is hovering above their necks Feb 27 18:45
schestowitz They didn’t like Aristide, he had to go. The cronies in the white house own the world… :-) … to promote democracy :-) Feb 27 18:45
balzac The main thing is that they don’t like democracy in Haiti Feb 27 18:46
schestowitz Obama: “I want nuuuathing to do wit’ it!” Feb 27 18:46
balzac well, he’s doing things very carefull so far. Feb 27 18:46
schestowitz Democracy = give authority to the [D]emocracy (Bush and pals) Feb 27 18:46
schestowitz Democracy is imperialism or colonialsm. It’s one of those cases where word lose their meaning and get investred Feb 27 18:47
schestowitz Like “liberate” <- > “invade” Feb 27 18:47
schestowitz “[H]e’s found “a novel way of deflecting concerns” about his role in serious human rights abuses: “he has hired some of the activists abducted and beaten by his troops as campaign workers and legislative candidates.” http://www.prwatch.org/node/8239 Feb 27 18:48
schestowitz http://www.prwatch.org/node/8240 “General Motors has hired Michael Whouley, among the Democratic Party’s “most respected organizers of grass-roots politics,” in “a sign the company’s fight for survival has become as much about politics and public image as business acumen,” reports the Detroit News.” Feb 27 18:49
schestowitz “Give us your -poor- money…” Feb 27 18:49
schestowitz V.President Cheney gives room for President Change and nothing changes… http://www.prwatch.org/node/8241 Feb 27 18:51
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balzac It’ll be an awesome thing for Bush and Cheney to find themselves behind bars. Feb 27 18:56
schestowitz Won’t happen Feb 27 18:59
schestowitz Maybe an house arrest Feb 27 18:59
schestowitz The corrupt regime stays Feb 27 18:59
schestowitz Now they have another wave of corruption called “stimulus” Feb 27 19:00
schestowitz Wait until they turn the population into farmers and sell assets like Citi and GM to China.. Feb 27 19:00
balzac It’s not like you can get rid of all corruption in one political event. Feb 27 19:00
schestowitz They’ll call it…….. “the newer new deal” Feb 27 19:00
balzac Even after a bloody revolution, you can’t get rid of all corruption in society Feb 27 19:00
balzac no amount of sacrifice can clear society of corruption Feb 27 19:01
schestowitz http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9… (Hard times hit Bangalore) Feb 27 19:01
balzac I don’t care about corruption, I just want to see Bush and Cheney behind bars. Feb 27 19:01
schestowitz It will make you grin for a day. What /then/? Feb 27 19:01
trmanco meh, nobody replied to my FWDed email Feb 27 19:01
schestowitz trmanco: that’s OK. They read it Feb 27 19:01
balzac that’s good enough Feb 27 19:02
balzac I’m an existentialist, not a progressive Feb 27 19:02
schestowitz There are two many Big Criminals Feb 27 19:02
balzac After that, focus negativity on the next target Feb 27 19:02
schestowitz Cheney and Bush may be supreme examples, but that won’t change enough. Feb 27 19:02
schestowitz In fact, now that they are not in (much) power, that won’t change much anyway Feb 27 19:03
schestowitz They needed to be barred in 2003 when lies just about began Feb 27 19:03
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schestowitz Companies and countries rarely criminalise their chiefs. It’s bad for their history and reputation (they also redid the image of Raegan, a corrupt cowboy who is said to have been a coward). Feb 27 19:04
balzac Roy, revenge is important Feb 27 19:04
schestowitz The only leaders to be punished as those caught by the enemy (e.g. military coup assisted by foreign nation) Feb 27 19:04
balzac they need to be robbed of their social status and to have their egos deflated. Feb 27 19:04
balzac Life in prison would work fine for that. Feb 27 19:04
balzac the world is getting too small to tolerate guys like Bush Feb 27 19:05
schestowitz They can share a booth with Tyson. Feb 27 19:05
schestowitz Talk about wine, ranches and stuff Feb 27 19:05
balzac Tyson doesn’t deserve to suffer their company Feb 27 19:05
schestowitz :-) Feb 27 19:05
schestowitz Digg has had a toolbar?!? Et tu, Rose? http://www.pcworld.com/article/160359/digg_… Feb 27 19:06
schestowitz http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wned/… (Obama set to end Iraq combat operations by Aug 2010) Feb 27 19:07
schestowitz That’s like asking “will Vista 7 be out in 2010″? Feb 27 19:07
balzac Roy, people need to learn the value of destroying just one person, such as Bush. Feb 27 19:07
schestowitz It’s always “next year,” just like Longhorn (RIP) Feb 27 19:08
balzac It can do so much for society. Feb 27 19:08
schestowitz “President Barack Obama will announce plans to withdraw all U.S. combat forces from Iraq by August 2010, fulfilling a campaign pledge to wind down an unpopular war that divided Americans, a U.S. Congressional aide said on Thursday.” Feb 27 19:08
PetoKraus “The global amount used by IFPI on lobbying and fighting piracy is £75 million.” -> 75M thrown out of the Windows™ Feb 27 19:09
schestowitz See what you think of http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/… Feb 27 19:09
PetoKraus i’ll finish this week of TPB first Feb 27 19:10
schestowitz PetoKraus: 75M should be invested in investigators of white-collar crime, not people and their PC licences Feb 27 19:10
PetoKraus gimme an hour:) Feb 27 19:10
PetoKraus schestowitz: yes Feb 27 19:11
PetoKraus 75M could Feb 27 19:11
PetoKraus fund you know Feb 27 19:11
PetoKraus 7500 students troughout their whole study Feb 27 19:11
PetoKraus (partially) Feb 27 19:11
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PetoKraus The reason for this drop is that the number of premieres have increased but sales have decreased. File-sharing has somewhat made the market thinner. Feb 27 19:13
PetoKraus GOODNES’s sake Feb 27 19:13
PetoKraus schestowitz: gimme a good film from last three years Feb 27 19:13
trmanco http://www.fsfeurope.org/news/200… Feb 27 19:15
trmanco as anubody seen that? Feb 27 19:15
trmanco anybody* Feb 27 19:15
schestowitz PetoKraus: “thinner” = “no price fixing” Feb 27 19:15
schestowitz They’lll need to compete against price.. based on pricing. Same as s/w Feb 27 19:16
PetoKraus trmanco: thanks Feb 27 19:16
schestowitz I watch YouTube lots Feb 27 19:16
PetoKraus schestowitz: anyway Feb 27 19:16
schestowitz I don’t need stinking MAFIAA content Feb 27 19:16
schestowitz ‘Content’ Feb 27 19:16
PetoKraus you didn’t name any good film made lately Feb 27 19:16
trmanco you’re welcome Feb 27 19:16
schestowitz          >PetoKraus> schestowitz: gimme a good film from last three years Feb 27 19:17
schestowitz PetoKraus: same for song. Feb 27 19:17
trmanco what music genre do you guys hear? Feb 27 19:17
schestowitz “Beats, b*tches, and cars” is what’s hot these days. Just grab some old sample from Sting or whoever. Feb 27 19:17
PetoKraus how the fuck are they willing to compete when they can’t make a good movie Feb 27 19:18
schestowitz PetoKraus: some documentaries may be good, but it’s not Hollywood. Feb 27 19:18
PetoKraus trmanco: rock. http://www.last.fm/user/PeterKraus Feb 27 19:18
PetoKraus schestowitz: yeah Feb 27 19:18
*schestowitz listens to Brazilian music ATM Feb 27 19:18
MinceR trmanco: mostly trance, metal and video game soundtracks. Feb 27 19:18
schestowitz Video games… :-) Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraus yeah Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraus command and conquer Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraus :) Feb 27 19:19
trmanco I use to like rock music Feb 27 19:19
schestowitz I have lots from Larry Feb 27 19:19
schestowitz Sierra.. Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraus trmanco: i’m not into “mainstream” rock though Feb 27 19:19
trmanco Now I hear trace,psy trance,house Feb 27 19:19
PetoKraus coldplay, rhchp… not really Feb 27 19:19
trmanco dance Feb 27 19:19
schestowitz They still make them free downloads on their site (the company is totally kaput now) Feb 27 19:19
trmanco old rock is kinda nice Feb 27 19:19
trmanco like Queen, Nirvana Feb 27 19:20
PetoKraus trmanco: yeah. if you take a peek trough that last fm link, you’ll see Feb 27 19:20
trmanco I already had a peak :-P Feb 27 19:20
PetoKraus :) it’s prog lately. Feb 27 19:20
schestowitz :-o “B. Patents and software / B1 From terabytes to petabytes: exclusions from patentability / Speakers: Nicholas Wallin, Withers and Rogers / Dimitris Karagiannis,University of Vienna” http://documents.epo.org/projects/babylon/epone… Feb 27 19:21
tessier_ Patentability…I still don’t get it. Software is a number. But nobody wants to admit it. Feb 27 19:22
PetoKraus patentability Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus what’s that Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus is that even in the dictionary? Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus i mean, seriouly Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus *sly Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus open the fucking oxford witchhammer edition dictionary of english language Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus and find that word Feb 27 19:23
PetoKraus i doubt you can. Feb 27 19:23
trmanco http://www.zazzle.com/tuxg2_wine_t_sh… Feb 27 19:24
PetoKraus :/ Feb 27 19:24
MinceR all information is just numbers :> Feb 27 19:24
MinceR witchhammer? Feb 27 19:24
PetoKraus witchhammer Feb 27 19:25
PetoKraus yes Feb 27 19:25
PetoKraus http://history.wisc.edu/sommervi… Feb 27 19:25
PetoKraus hammer of the witches Feb 27 19:26
PetoKraus it’s a metaphor for huge book full. Feb 27 19:26
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PetoKraus *book. Feb 27 19:27
PetoKraus ironically enough, it had only like 100 pages Feb 27 19:27
PetoKraus and was pretty efficient as you may imagine Feb 27 19:27
Omar Hi Feb 27 19:27
PetoKraus hello Feb 27 19:28
Omar schestowitz: I like the post about Vista 7 not shipping until 2010. :) Feb 27 19:28
MinceR PetoKraus: oh, i thought there was an edition officially called witchhammer. Feb 27 19:29
MinceR that would have been cool. Feb 27 19:29
PetoKraus nah. it’s my wrong translation :/ Feb 27 19:29
PetoKraus we call it witchhammer in slovak… though in english it’s hammer againist witches Feb 27 19:29
PetoKraus oh well Feb 27 19:30
balzac That book was used as a handbook for torturing women to death. Feb 27 19:30
Omar And you ya know guys? I think I’ve seen more than enough evidence so far that there is no need to worry about Vista 7 being a tough obstacle in front of Linux. Feb 27 19:30
PetoKraus well yeah Feb 27 19:30
PetoKraus but you know it strikes me sometimes Feb 27 19:30
PetoKraus today, we had a lecture (surprise surprise) Feb 27 19:30
Omar It’s obvious. They can’t even stick to their schedules, that’s hilarious! :) Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus and our prof uses ’98 still Feb 27 19:31
balzac sheesh Feb 27 19:31
Omar 0_o Feb 27 19:31
balzac poor old guy Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus so i told my friend that until november or so Win 3.1 was still used in planes Feb 27 19:31
tessier_ In planes? Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus yeah Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus like airplanes Feb 27 19:31
tessier_ For what purpose? Feb 27 19:31
Omar wow,, Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus in the entertainment boxes which serve you ads, movies, and plane flight information Feb 27 19:31
balzac jeez Feb 27 19:31
tessier_ oh, ok. Feb 27 19:31
PetoKraus it’s not ok, but OK :) Feb 27 19:32
tessier_ I love it when I see Linux boot up in-flight Feb 27 19:32
PetoKraus anyway Feb 27 19:32
PetoKraus she asked me “well, what do you use then, i bet you use vista” Feb 27 19:32
PetoKraus i mean, i have to take into account she’s a girl Feb 27 19:32
PetoKraus and she wanted to study archaeology Feb 27 19:32
schestowitz Omar: good, thanks. Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus but you know, when i told her that most of the internet doesn’t use windows Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus she almost didn’t believe me, Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus well Feb 27 19:33
Omar PetoKraus: Of course she didn’t. :) Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus means i can ask her out for a glass of Wine Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus :) Feb 27 19:33
PetoKraus she had the notion of linux being “that illegal cheap windows off the internet” Feb 27 19:34
schestowitz Omar: Vista7 is like Vista. Feb 27 19:34
PetoKraus and that she wants something pretty Feb 27 19:34
schestowitz It was the same befoe Vista was released Feb 27 19:34
*PetoKraus facepalms Feb 27 19:34
schestowitz They inflate things using PR Feb 27 19:34
PetoKraus i guess i’m going to take my laptop in my school next week Feb 27 19:34
PetoKraus anyway Feb 27 19:34
Omar schestowitz: I bet it will be even worse. Feb 27 19:34
PetoKraus which livecd is the nicest according to you guys? Feb 27 19:35
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PetoKraus i’m definitely going to show her elive, i’d like to see how it works…. SLAX is very very well polished Feb 27 19:35
*MinceR very rarely uses livecds Feb 27 19:35
PetoKraus i don’t find ubuntu attractive Feb 27 19:35
PetoKraus fedora? what else? Feb 27 19:35
MinceR i think i still have an old kubuntu and an old knoppix around somewhere Feb 27 19:35
schestowitz Omar: no, it’s hard to do worse than Vista Feb 27 19:35
schestowitz It’s like ME Feb 27 19:35
balzac I favor debian-based distros Feb 27 19:35
schestowitz vs 2000 Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraus balzac: yes but Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraus i need it for presentation purposes Feb 27 19:36
schestowitz One is s*it, one is almost sh*t Feb 27 19:36
MinceR nope, they’re both shit Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraus as my desktop is quite opposite of “nice and pretty” Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraus sabayon? Feb 27 19:36
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schestowitz Hey, fade-in Feb 27 19:36
Omar schestowitz: lol! Feb 27 19:36
fade-in ‘sup Feb 27 19:36
balzac I’ve got to stop trying to convince people to switch their OS Feb 27 19:36
PetoKraus i’m not going to try to convince her Feb 27 19:36
schestowitz It’s about \marketing’ Feb 27 19:37
balzac If you try, they make you struggle. Feb 27 19:37
schestowitz As loathed as it is. Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus i’m going to fuck the idiocy out of her brain. Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus i mean Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus she’s at uni Feb 27 19:37
MinceR lol Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus she doesn’t have any apology for being ignorant Feb 27 19:37
balzac “i’m going to fuck her” – Kerpal Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus yeah Feb 27 19:37
schestowitz PetoKraus: sounds like it’s more than O/S you’e after ther.e Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus that’s a nice by-product Feb 27 19:37
balzac “what did you say?” “nothing!” Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus :) Feb 27 19:37
PetoKraus she does rowing though Feb 27 19:38
Omar schestowitz: Ya know? MS is confused, they don’t know what they want. That’s why they’re postponing the release to look like they’re planning for something huge, which isn’t. Feb 27 19:38
PetoKraus i hope she doesn’t carry her oar with her Feb 27 19:38
Omar In other words “Marketing”. Feb 27 19:39
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PetoKraus king kong defence again! Feb 27 19:40
MinceR i prefer the Chewbacca defense. Feb 27 19:41
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PetoKraus i think you broke copyright by mentioning it Feb 27 19:45
PetoKraus you are, effectively, stealing Feb 27 19:45
schestowitz Haha!! http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?… Feb 27 19:47
schestowitz Yes! Feb 27 19:47
schestowitz ACT busted, even with links and all. Feb 27 19:47
schestowitz I mailed the Zuck shill about it Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus oh Feb 27 19:48
schestowitz PetoKraus: I do rowing too Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus i don’t know if you saw this http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4… Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus schestowitz: :) Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus does it happen to you Feb 27 19:48
schestowitz I won trophies. Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus that people mistake oar for a paddle? Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus in slovak the words are very similar Feb 27 19:48
PetoKraus so we always made fun when someone used them the wrong way around Feb 27 19:49
PetoKraus and said “it doesn’t matter” Feb 27 19:49
PetoKraus that we’re going to hit him with oar instead of a paddle and he WILL know the difference :P Feb 27 19:49
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schestowitz For those who may be interested, I did some further analysis (independently) of this document, including some background material on ACT and other lobbying arms that are paid by Microsoft to participate: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/… Feb 27 19:52
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Balrog schestowitz: fix the link (well I will) Feb 27 19:55
schestowitz The Microsoft shills are already all over it with spin in Slashdot Feb 27 19:55
Balrog http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/mic… Feb 27 19:55
schestowitz http://slashdot.org/firehose.p… Feb 27 19:56
Balrog good that there’s the modding system Feb 27 19:57
Balrog (on slashdot) Feb 27 19:57
balzac The problem with the software battle is that techno-illiterate people love to join the fray Feb 27 19:58
balzac proprietary software vendors cater their propaganda to them just like politicians rile up the dumb people. Feb 27 19:58
balzac we have to learn to use the techno-illiterates Feb 27 19:59
tessier_ 531015572043105936369954 is my number and you can’t use it. If you give anyone else that number I will sue you for violating my copyright. Feb 27 19:59
balzac it requires a non-intellectual marketing campaign Feb 27 19:59
tessier_ That number just happens to be the source code to my computer program converted to decimal. Feb 27 19:59
tessier_ Software is math. Feb 27 20:00
tessier_ And actually, so is all information. Including movies and music. Feb 27 20:00
balzac How about this – if you use apple, you’re probably a woman, if you use microsoft, you can’t get laid. That leaves only GNU/Linux. Feb 27 20:00
balzac That message is free of anything to do with technology, it attacks two competitor brands and presents free software as the only viable choice for your average man. Feb 27 20:01
balzac It’s pretty lame, I guess. Feb 27 20:02
balzac It’s lame because it doesn’t attract women to use free software. Feb 27 20:02
schestowitz tessier: some people patent [patterns in numbers Feb 27 20:03
balzac If you use Apple, you probably also wear a hello kitty backpack Feb 27 20:03
schestowitz Copyrights = number Feb 27 20:03
schestowitz Patents = many numbers Feb 27 20:03
schestowitz Trademarks = name for the number Feb 27 20:03
schestowitz In a sense. Feb 27 20:03
schestowitz More like vendors and recognition, but these names too are FINITE (strings) Feb 27 20:04
schestowitz Logos also Feb 27 20:04
schestowitz Jot some little stripe and Nike will be on your back Feb 27 20:04
schestowitz A couple of circles and Disney might be fuming. Feb 27 20:04
schestowitz Just in:  vista wins the fiasco awards http://www.fiascoawards.com/ Feb 27 20:05
schestowitz See? Microsoft is still a winner Feb 27 20:05
tessier_ Kinda like winning the Special Olympics… Feb 27 20:05
trmanco http://www.jankoatwarpspeed.com/post/200… Feb 27 20:05
schestowitz Almost 90% of “market share”  ……. “WINDOWS VISTA, out of the 6.403 people voting, 5.222 considered Microsoft’s Operating System a Great Fiasco.” Feb 27 20:06
schestowitz tessier: not really. in the Olympics you have people competing for merit Feb 27 20:06
schestowitz Don’t insult disabled people by comparing it to Vista. Feb 27 20:07
schestowitz Too late…’ One of the most quotable lines from the Gutmann analysis sums this up perfectly as, “breaking the legs of Olympic athletes and then rating them based on how fast they can hobble on crutches.” ‘ http://badvista.fsf.org/blog/analysi… Feb 27 20:07
schestowitz More AMD Layoffs today  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n… goner? Feb 27 20:10
schestowitz IT crowd does 34 days a year unpaid overtime  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/187/1… > Feb 27 20:11
schestowitz Wages stagnated, pressure rose over the years Feb 27 20:11
schestowitz THE ease tech was intended to bring.. ha Feb 27 20:11
schestowitz Microsoft has made only 36 changes to Windows 7  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/18… > Feb 27 20:16
schestowitz British premier promises science bonanza  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1668… > Feb 27 20:18
amd-linux that will not be enough to fix the remaining 2000 bugs: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4050.html Feb 27 20:18
schestowitz Yes, I know Feb 27 20:18
schestowitz They spin the rush Feb 27 20:19
amd-linux although me thinks they would be well served if there really would be only 2000 bugs…. Feb 27 20:19
schestowitz The biggers delay tells that they worry about the next report (April) because people stay away from Vista like it’s the plague Feb 27 20:19
schestowitz Had VIsta been acceptable, Windows sales would not go down Feb 27 20:19
schestowitz They now sell $0 Windows XP Feb 27 20:20
schestowitz The new slogan is “buy VIsta NOW”… upgrade it ti 7 some time “alter” Feb 27 20:20
schestowitz *later Feb 27 20:20
amd-linux I think they do not only “sell” for 0 USD but give kickbacks, so actually they pay….. for XP Feb 27 20:20
schestowitz They scare people by saying that XP won’t upgrade well to Vista7 Feb 27 20:20
schestowitz Which is tactless because they drive people to Linux by saying it Feb 27 20:21
amd-linux most windows user dont care if there is no upgrade path – they are used to reinstall every 4 weeks :-) Feb 27 20:21
schestowitz ‘Vista Capable’ plaintiffs try to resurrect class-action status < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Plaintiffs_try… > Feb 27 20:26
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schestowitz People pay to bail out newspapers from their own incompetence: http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/6629… “Journalists will likely study new ways of telling stories and new ways of delivering content, and perhaps get some training in using software Feb 27 20:31
schestowitz “Blake Jorgensen, Yahoo’s chief financial officer, said today that the company is open to a search partnership with Microsoft, but that such a deal would be complex to implement from a technology standpoint.” http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sf… Feb 27 20:37
schestowitz http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/… (Digg to Take On StumbleUpon and TinyURL?) Feb 27 20:45
schestowitz Using International Fear to Steal Our Freedom < http://organizedexploitation.blogspot.com/2009/0… > Feb 27 20:46
schestowitz http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archiv… (Microsoft might sell $3 billion in debt over next 6 months) Feb 27 20:53
schestowitz Caribbeans littered by US navy..  http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/02/26/u… “Hundreds of corroding and unexploded bombs litter the sea floor, leaking toxins and taking a toll on nearby marine life. The munitions were left by the U.S. Navy, which had a training site on Vieques for six decades.” Feb 27 21:22
PetoKraus schestowitz: mind asking you a question? Feb 27 21:24
PetoKraus have any info about FOSS adoption in Germany? Feb 27 21:24
PetoKraus past or present… Feb 27 21:24
schestowitz You do a project on it..? Feb 27 21:25
PetoKraus no Feb 27 21:25
PetoKraus the girl i was talking about is german Feb 27 21:25
PetoKraus :D Feb 27 21:25
PetoKraus i guess the best way to tell her i’m not lying is point out what’s happening in her own country Feb 27 21:26
PetoKraus especially since britain is not the most FOSS positive country there is Feb 27 21:26
PetoKraus i thought there was a city hall which was migrating Feb 27 21:26
PetoKraus i can’t remember where was it… stuttgart? Feb 27 21:27
schestowitz http://www.heise.de/english/newsti… (Google asks to be exploited!) Feb 27 21:27
schestowitz Munich for starters. Feb 27 21:27
PetoKraus i’ll look into that Feb 27 21:27
schestowitz Some regions moved to Linux entirely. Feb 27 21:28
schestowitz Hold on. Feb 27 21:28
schestowitz German Federal Government to Support ODF http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/1… Feb 27 21:28
schestowitz German Green MEP says Microsoft should be excluded from EU contract awarding procedure http://www.heise.de/english/newstick… Feb 27 21:28
schestowitz DE: German Foreign Ministry will not use ISO OOXML http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/doc… Feb 27 21:29
schestowitz German county adopts OpenOffice.org http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/entry/germa… Feb 27 21:29
schestowitz German penal institutions looking into OpenOffice.org http://ooomarketing.blogspot.com/2008/02/german-pe… Feb 27 21:29
schestowitz [German] Federal Employment Office switches to Linux http://www.heise.de/english/new… Feb 27 21:29
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schestowitz 3German government plans to use open document formats in its administration http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker… Feb 27 21:30
schestowitz German parliament plans to pursue open source strategy further http://www.heise.de/english/news… Feb 27 21:30
schestowitz City of Munich is looking for additional Linux specialists (technical system integration) http://www.marsmenschen.com/index.php/2006/12/22/city-o… Feb 27 21:30
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zuza Hello Feb 27 21:56
zuza I can’t get why that Novell-MS marriage is that dangerous. If it is why people cant’t just drop SUSE? Feb 27 21:59
schestowitz Hey Feb 27 21:59
tessier_ zuza: Why can’t people just drop MS? Feb 27 22:00
schestowitz zuza: people can drop it. Feb 27 22:00
zuza I could. Feb 27 22:00
zuza Anyway I can’t get how does the Novell-MS story is related to personal choice. Feb 27 22:01
zuza So what is the threat? Feb 27 22:03
schestowitz Mostly patents and strategy Feb 27 22:04
schestowitz Novell is helping Microsoft now Feb 27 22:04
schestowitz And vice versa in fact Feb 27 22:04
schestowitz Novell is more closely tied to Microsoft to to FOSS/Linux Feb 27 22:04
schestowitz I’m doing a post about it at the very moment in fact Feb 27 22:04
zuza The only threat that is easy for me to understeand is legislation as long as patent goes. Feb 27 22:05
zuza Ok, will read it. Feb 27 22:06
zuza Well, is it a must to cooperate with FOSS? Feb 27 22:06
schestowitz Done :-) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/nove… Feb 27 22:11
schestowitz zuza: I write about patents too. Novell is not helping. Feb 27 22:12
zuza Oh, I remeber there was some isu that MS was licensing FAT and it was said that MS did not have rights to keep doing it (however there was no regulation to make MS give the money back). I don’t know how did that story ended. Feb 27 22:21
zuza issue* Feb 27 22:21
schestowitz zuza: yes, I will do a post about it Feb 27 22:21
schestowitz It was made invalid in Germany Feb 27 22:22
schestowitz OT: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/… “Cool, GullFOSS is top 1 on blogs.sun.com” Feb 27 22:22
schestowitz Federal Patent Court declares FAT patent of Microsoft null and void < http://www.heise.de/english/newsti… >thanks, zoobab01 Feb 27 22:22
zuza Ok, but the threat is legislation not MS nor Novell. Feb 27 22:26
schestowitz http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22375… “But the firm’s employees have also been braced for further job cuts after an initial 100 cuts were announced earlier this month.” Feb 27 22:26
schestowitz This suggests that indeed more layoffs are coming. Feb 27 22:26
schestowitz zuza: who do you think drives legislation? Feb 27 22:27
schestowitz Case of point from today: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/27/m… Feb 27 22:27
zuza Those who had been voted for. :-) Feb 27 22:27
schestowitz Dell Records 48 Percent Drop in Net Income < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160327/dell_rec… > Feb 27 22:27
MinceR In Soviet Russia, government controls business. In Soviet America, it’s the other way around! Feb 27 22:28
schestowitz zuza: not true Feb 27 22:28
schestowitz They are pushes around by corporations Feb 27 22:28
schestowitz *pushed Feb 27 22:28
schestowitz MinceR: Soviet America?? USSA? Feb 27 22:28
MinceR the USian voting system is very far from optimal Feb 27 22:28
MinceR schestowitz: :) Feb 27 22:28
zuza Soviet Union, European Union, American Union… any one cares? ;-) Feb 27 22:29
MinceR :) Feb 27 22:29
zuza Ok, I understand there are pushes, but these pushes exist because there are “pushable” people. Am i Wrong? Feb 27 22:30
MinceR most people are prone to corruption Feb 27 22:31
zuza All people are. Feb 27 22:31
MinceR at least most living people are Feb 27 22:31
zuza But it is not MS fault that they are using it (if they really do) and abusing it (if they really do). Feb 27 22:32
zuza it = being prone to corruption Feb 27 22:32
MinceR bribery committed by m$ is m$’s fault Feb 27 22:32
zuza no it is not Feb 27 22:32
zuza MS corp is the copany seeking for gains Feb 27 22:32
MinceR by what twisted logic is it not? Feb 27 22:33
zuza they use any oportunity Feb 27 22:33
MinceR well, that’s unethical, immoral and unacceptable Feb 27 22:33
schestowitz zuza:  to corrupt? Feb 27 22:33
schestowitz That may be true. Feb 27 22:33
MinceR operating in the name of a corporation is no excuse for immoral actions Feb 27 22:33
zuza I say that the system that allows such things is twisted Feb 27 22:33
schestowitz They are innocent… just tempted to bribe. Feb 27 22:33
MinceR and i say that it is m$ that takes advantage of that possibility Feb 27 22:33
schestowitz zuza: no enforcement maybe Feb 27 22:34
MinceR zuza: if i said i were tempted (by the possibility) to beat you senseless and take your money, would you consider me innocent? Feb 27 22:34
zuza Look, but is there any need to create and keep “the system” that allows that kind of actions? Feb 27 22:34
MinceR not really Feb 27 22:35
schestowitz Oh dear. They want to kill some more people now? http://www.pcworld.com/article/160355/microsoft_ex… Didn’t they learn from those English hospitals that became zombies? Feb 27 22:35
MinceR it’s a corrupt system maintained by a corrupt species Feb 27 22:35
schestowitz This is also lockin on people’s PERSONAL medical data, i.e. matter of life or death Feb 27 22:35
schestowitz This smacks of corrupted officials handing over control of life to a crooked company that’s close to Bush. Feb 27 22:36
zuza ok, ok, I’m just trying to understand the whole issue as well. Feb 27 22:36
schestowitz MinceR: I have some solutions Feb 27 22:36
MinceR as do i Feb 27 22:36
schestowitz First — more wikileaks like facilities Feb 27 22:36
MinceR but i suspect you wouldn’t like my solutions :> Feb 27 22:36
schestowitz Then, offer taxpayers money as reard to whsistleblower Feb 27 22:36
schestowitz *blowers Feb 27 22:37
MinceR my solution involves killing evil people. Feb 27 22:37
zuza The system that allows the corruption simply makes a corruption an ordinary tool for keeping everyday businesses Feb 27 22:37
schestowitz Make a society where everyone can snitch… make it transparent Feb 27 22:37
schestowitz People would be scared to make a move because they would get caught Feb 27 22:37
schestowitz MinceR: I know your soluitons Feb 27 22:37
schestowitz No fires please Feb 27 22:37
MinceR i like fires. :> Feb 27 22:37
schestowitz Oh dear. Feb 27 22:38
schestowitz Fury beats fire Feb 27 22:38
schestowitz Puts a new meaning on the phrase “fire this man” Feb 27 22:38
MinceR they’re compatible Feb 27 22:38
MinceR :) Feb 27 22:38
schestowitz If they do something bad that is Feb 27 22:38
MinceR “build a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day. set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life.” Feb 27 22:38
schestowitz Sacked means they get… well, put in a sack?!?! Feb 27 22:38
MinceR nah, not for anything bad Feb 27 22:39
schestowitz Laid off… well, poor them… maybe you’ll have them laid. Feb 27 22:39
zuza (- Fire at will!, – Where is Will?) Feb 27 22:39
MinceR but for evils on ballmer’s and gates’ level, i wouldn’t hesitate much Feb 27 22:39
MinceR zuza: lol Feb 27 22:39
schestowitz MinceR: sick stuff. Feb 27 22:39
zuza Will, Bill whatever… Feb 27 22:39
zuza ;-) Feb 27 22:39
schestowitz MinceR: they’ll be replaced by others Feb 27 22:40
MinceR i’d ask them what do they have to say for themselves, but i doubt they would have anything Feb 27 22:40
schestowitz You don’t resolved by eliminating Feb 27 22:40
MinceR schestowitz: well, eventually we’ll run out of assholes Feb 27 22:40
schestowitz Humans are similar creatured Feb 27 22:40
schestowitz Don’t expect dissimilar actions from future gens Feb 27 22:40
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MinceR not all humans are Feb 27 22:40
MinceR also, education can work, at least at an early age Feb 27 22:40
schestowitz It’s not even Darwinism by fire, so to speak Feb 27 22:40
mib_9w7zzd ok ok what is all thing about 2012 Feb 27 22:41
zuza MinceR: in the corrupted (becuse they are corruptable) systems typically with high taxes, there are lots of black workers. Is being a black worker immoral? Feb 27 22:41
schestowitz It’s better to make a radically transparent system Feb 27 22:41
MinceR as soon as we stop locking children of slightly different age categories together so that the older ones can teach the younger ones to be nasty Feb 27 22:41
schestowitz People like Glyn Moody are in favbour Feb 27 22:41
schestowitz Make politics a looking glass. Feb 27 22:41
MinceR zuza: that’s irrelevant to the question Feb 27 22:41
schestowitz Public visibility atop everything. Feb 27 22:41
zuza MinceR: it is not the issue of being or not moral (or immoral) whatever. Feb 27 22:41
*mib_9w7zzd has quit (Client Quit) Feb 27 22:41
schestowitz And whistle blowers everywhere too. Feb 27 22:41
zuza The same goes for the system that is corruptable by default. Feb 27 22:42
zuza Corruption is like the air to our lungs. Feb 27 22:42
schestowitz Not really. Feb 27 22:43
zuza Corruptions makes that kind of system breathing. Feb 27 22:43
MinceR zuza: why is your black worker a black worker? Feb 27 22:43
schestowitz zuza: it’s not a racial issue Feb 27 22:43
zuza If there was no corruption (in a corruptable system) it would ceased to be. Feb 27 22:43
schestowitz Though colonialism is a disgrace and it’s everywhere Feb 27 22:43
schestowitz Even slavery is still around… wage slavery being one example Feb 27 22:43
schestowitz Patents facilitate colonialism Feb 27 22:43
schestowitz “I own this /idea/, but you can’t because I’m richer than you” Feb 27 22:44
schestowitz This isn’t food Feb 27 22:44
schestowitz It’s ideas, it’s maths Feb 27 22:44
MinceR zuza: it is impossible to set up a legal system with no loopholes Feb 27 22:44
zuza schestowitz: I stick to metaphors not colonial, racial or whateve stuff. Feb 27 22:44
zuza Night is dark. Feb 27 22:44
MinceR it is also impossible to legislate morality Feb 27 22:44
schestowitz Maybe this endless greed that has the economy spiraling down the tube will bring some needed change Feb 27 22:44
zuza People were afraid of nigth (dark, black, whatever) Feb 27 22:45
MinceR even though that’s the alleged goal of legal systems Feb 27 22:45
zuza thus associacion Feb 27 22:45
schestowitz People whine about loss of money, but production of basics can stay the same Feb 27 22:45
schestowitz Just not luxurie.s Feb 27 22:45
schestowitz And colonislism Feb 27 22:45
MinceR (well, in the better case — the worst case is when it admittedly exists for its own sake) Feb 27 22:45
zuza geee Feb 27 22:45
zuza Ok: is it immoral to work out side of tax system? Feb 27 22:45
schestowitz zuza: animal instinct, like vertigo. Feb 27 22:46
MinceR depends on what the tax system, how it works and for whose benefit Feb 27 22:46
MinceR but i think that it would be better to abolish the state, and with it the tax system. Feb 27 22:46
zuza schestowitz: are you sayin tha you are something better than an animal?! Feb 27 22:46
schestowitz zuza: go ahead police 13-y-o babysitters Feb 27 22:46
MinceR it’s just a formalized and particularly efficient form of armed robbery. Feb 27 22:46
MinceR zuza: we’re all animals — multicellular, heterotrophic eukaryotes. Feb 27 22:47
MinceR with no cell walls. Feb 27 22:47
zuza And patents contribute to it 9at least the way they are at the moment) Feb 27 22:48
schestowitz Apple Cracks Down on Emoji Apps < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160370/a… > iPhone ->theirPhone Feb 27 22:49
zuza Simple there are the people who claim to regulate things, so it is obvious for people (who have money and want to earn) who should theu stick to. Feb 27 22:49
schestowitz zuza: we can make banking practical (past corrupt bankers), so why not social operations? Feb 27 22:50
zuza If there was no group of people who can create/refgulate patent laws there would be no bribery by MS, Novell, or whoever. Feb 27 22:50
schestowitz If the banking system was like IT procurement, money would be lost & found in your account every other week Feb 27 22:50
schestowitz But banks tend to keep track of accounts properly Feb 27 22:50
MinceR zuza: why should they stick to anyone, especially those people? Feb 27 22:50
schestowitz In procurement, corruption drives choice? Feb 27 22:50
zuza schestowitz: could you reaxplain? (not sure If I got the idea) Feb 27 22:51
schestowitz Why is that? Maybe social protocols? Feb 27 22:51
schestowitz We’re too vulnerable to social engineering (corruption), so it’s time for a rethink Feb 27 22:51
schestowitz zuza: maybe processes have contraints and monitorting Feb 27 22:51
schestowitz As a teller at a bank you can’t ‘steal’ money from the register. Why? Feb 27 22:52
zuza There is no money in the register? Feb 27 22:53
schestowitz What utter BS… 10 Reasons to Avoid Office 2007 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/16… >  “Upgrading is inevitable…………”  HUH??? Feb 27 22:53
schestowitz zuza: no, you’ll be caught pretty fast Feb 27 22:53
MinceR well, support will end Feb 27 22:53
schestowitz And you can move to better s/w Feb 27 22:53
MinceR some people will be reluctant to do so Feb 27 22:53
schestowitz But IDG mentality is: MS version x or MS version X+1 Feb 27 22:53
schestowitz Or: MS product 1; MS product 2 Feb 27 22:54
MinceR they deceive themselves into thinking that m$ crap is better than everything else Feb 27 22:54
schestowitz Or: MS edition X and MS edition Y (e.g. VIsta) Feb 27 22:54
schestowitz The illusion of choice. Embrace the logic. Feb 27 22:54
zuza schestowitz: I lose the point. Feb 27 22:54
schestowitz Decisions, decisions… jail or prison? Feb 27 22:54
MinceR :D Feb 27 22:54
schestowitz zuza: there are social protocols. Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz Also organisational one Feb 27 22:55
zuza Ok. I get the example, but I lose the point. Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz *ones Feb 27 22:55
zuza Ok, the other way “what are that “social protocols”? Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz Why not ensure you crack down on SweatyB bribing people in Hungary for a deal? Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz Using OOXML favours, back room promises, etc. Feb 27 22:55
schestowitz That’s what tenders are for, but they are not constrained or monitored, thus corruot Feb 27 22:56
zuza But why not to fight against that system that keeps that “briberyable” people at Hungary? Feb 27 22:56
zuza Getting rid of MS will not solve the problem. Feb 27 22:56
schestowitz Blech. IDG is so infatuated with advertisers (Apple, MS) these days… Feb 27 22:57
MinceR the people maintain the system Feb 27 22:57
schestowitz zuza: that’s right, it won;t Feb 27 22:57
MinceR most human beings are evil and stupid, they want a leadership, they want opression Feb 27 22:57
schestowitz zuza: find the people, find the corrupt system Feb 27 22:57
schestowitz BN slammed ISO a lot Feb 27 22:57
zuza MinceR: all, alll, all. We are not better. :-) Feb 27 22:57
schestowitz Even their Wikipedia page got BNed Feb 27 22:57
MinceR and until that thinking changes, systems like the ones we’ve always had will always come up Feb 27 22:57
MinceR the thinking of people must be changed for the situation to get any better Feb 27 22:57
MinceR then we can get rid of the state Feb 27 22:58
zuza “always”?! Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz yES Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz You need to name people Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz ISO has no feelings Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz People in ISO do Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz Find the crooks Feb 27 22:58
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 27 22:58
MinceR and some people will always be resistant to this Feb 27 22:58
MinceR thus, they’ll have to be eliminated Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz Likewise in Microsoft Feb 27 22:58
zuza Oh, a couple of ages ago it was pretty acceptable, wasn’t it? ;-) Feb 27 22:58
schestowitz “MS sucks” won’t offend anyone Feb 27 22:58
MinceR we have the luxury of choice, with the overpopulation problem we’re having Feb 27 22:58
zuza errr: WHAT?! Feb 27 22:59
schestowitz Showing leaked E-mails where they break the law might put them in cuffs in a land where corruption is not a standard Feb 27 22:59
zuza over what?! Feb 27 22:59
schestowitz So people in the EU can see what Microsoft people do and then choose to boycott these companies Feb 27 22:59
oiaohm http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so…  This might strain Novell and MS releations. Feb 27 22:59
zuza oh, of course not Feb 27 22:59
zuza EU is asking for a nice bribe. :-) Feb 27 22:59
oiaohm Thinking Novell has agree to provide legal support to the Linux Foundation. Feb 27 23:00
schestowitz oiaohm: thanks, seen it Feb 27 23:00
schestowitz Bit Novell is with MS Feb 27 23:00
schestowitz “peace of mind” and all Feb 27 23:00
*Casperin has quit (“Leaving”) Feb 27 23:00
schestowitz Mr. “respect Microsoft” Zemlin, eh? Feb 27 23:00
oiaohm Linux foundation has the money to out last Microsoft. Feb 27 23:01
oiaohm To be correct with MS current share price they have the money to buy MS out completely. Feb 27 23:02
oiaohm So how I think MS is going to back off. Feb 27 23:02
schestowitz They have IV Feb 27 23:02
schestowitz the trolls of their own Feb 27 23:02
schestowitz Linux Foundation is a front for IBM et al Feb 27 23:02
schestowitz Call it “kernel foundation” Feb 27 23:02
oiaohm IBM HP DELL Feb 27 23:02
oiaohm Yep OS boycott from them would kinda kill MS. Feb 27 23:03
schestowitz They are already troubles Feb 27 23:03
schestowitz VistaX delayed Feb 27 23:03
schestowitz *troubled Feb 27 23:03
oiaohm IBM HP and DELL take it in turn to provide the kernel foundation with hardware. Feb 27 23:03
schestowitz Bruce Schneier  writes for MSBBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techno… Feb 27 23:03
zuza errr, they say its going to be delivered by the end of this year Feb 27 23:04
oiaohm Sun also throws in paid for and not picked up orders. Feb 27 23:04
schestowitz “With a title like that, I hope you’re not expecting this post to be light reading. I’m also blindly assuming that you have at least a passing familiarity with the concepts of Objectivism and the Übermensch.” http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?… Feb 27 23:06
schestowitz zuza: na-ah! Feb 27 23:06
oiaohm Note before IBM HP and DELL took turns with hardware support to the Kernel foundation.   Poor kernel foundation end up with 4 truck loads of stuff with no where to put it. Feb 27 23:07
zuza Hence, people confuse Nitsche works with his sister’s works I do nto know where I should go in to that discussion. ;-) Feb 27 23:08
zuza http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comm… Feb 27 23:10
zuza the same goes for “black workesr” and other stuff. Feb 27 23:11
zuza what kind of idiot told you that “black workesr” is the result of colonialism?! Feb 27 23:11
schestowitz *LOL* “Laughter filled The Pirate Bay trial here Wednesday when John Kennedy, the chief executive of the International Federation of Phonographic Industries, testified that people would have purchased every music track they got free file sharing. ” http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2… Feb 27 23:12
zuza (the term I mean) Feb 27 23:12
schestowitz zuza: me?? Feb 27 23:12
zuza If it was not for that channel I would never come to that association Feb 27 23:13
schestowitz Why this association? Feb 27 23:14
schestowitz I just posted something from a Linux sites I saw Feb 27 23:14
zuza Oh, I mean “black” refering to “Afroamericans” and “Afroafricans” Feb 27 23:14
schestowitz I didn’t bring this up Feb 27 23:15
zuza oh, whatever (it was MinceR I guess) Feb 27 23:15
MinceR oh Feb 27 23:15
MinceR i thought you meant unregistered, illegal workers Feb 27 23:16
zuza I just saw that again “Nitsche” is not Nitsche so there was another issue of the kind Feb 27 23:16
zuza And I did. Feb 27 23:16
MinceR Nietzsche? :> Feb 27 23:16
zuza It was his sister in fact Feb 27 23:16
zuza Who produce all that things which are associated with his name. Feb 27 23:17
schestowitz Good for Linux (servers reuse to increase): http://www.serverwatch.com/stats… Feb 27 23:17
schestowitz zuza: read that post. It’s actually about something else. Feb 27 23:18
zuza I am lost in fact. Feb 27 23:18
zuza My main reason for chatting here is to understand why MS-Novl is evil. Feb 27 23:19
schestowitz Could Microsoft be trying to acquire TomTom?  http://blogs.computerworld.com/could_mi… Feb 27 23:20
schestowitz zuza: yes, we got distracted Feb 27 23:20
schestowitz Novell’s deal is bad because Microsoft and Novell fight against Free software Feb 27 23:20
zuza If you live in a country where they pay you for your ass and you have no choice you can die. Feb 27 23:20
schestowitz They turn it to something else and help Microsoft as long as money is shared among the two Feb 27 23:21
zuza schestowitz: into what? Feb 27 23:21
schestowitz ‘mixed source’ is one thing Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz Another is stuff that’s build with Mirosoft’s so-called IP Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz So it’s Microsoft ‘leading’ FOSS Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz And Microsoft taxing it Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz And letting it be something secondary Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz windows is a dinosaur Feb 27 23:22
schestowitz Mcirosoft pays Novell to turn Linux into a dinosaur too Feb 27 23:22
oiaohm Linux kernel is a dinosaur in places. Feb 27 23:23
oiaohm Lot of them being fix at moment. Feb 27 23:23
oiaohm NT good design poor implementation. Feb 27 23:23
schestowitz Microsoft’s main shill in the UK is attacking FOSS:  Open source is years behind commercial products, says Socitm president < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/02/… > Feb 27 23:23
schestowitz That’s the guy behind the Get the Facts roadshow Feb 27 23:24
schestowitz First the Microsoft buddies from Fortify Feb 27 23:24
schestowitz Now this. Feb 27 23:24
zuza hey, why MS and Novell have no right to fight against free software? Feb 27 23:24
zuza (let’s assume they do) Feb 27 23:25
oiaohm MS has the right to. Feb 27 23:26
oiaohm The question is it wise. Feb 27 23:26
oiaohm Almost every hardware maker they depend on is part of the Linux Foundation. Feb 27 23:26
zuza as we are seeing money (the paper) is loosing trust in its value (no more gold into money conversion) Feb 27 23:27
zuza and… I guess the opens source is some kind of demand Feb 27 23:27
zuza no money, but there is some kind of value Feb 27 23:27
zuza so all in all whatever “open source folks” produce is a rival to what MS produces Feb 27 23:28
zuza value vs. value Feb 27 23:28
zuza the war goes at corruptable theatre Feb 27 23:28
oiaohm Hardware guys want to sell hardware. Feb 27 23:29
oiaohm They really don’t give a crap about the OS on it. Feb 27 23:29
oiaohm Other than cheeper the better. Feb 27 23:29
zuza I would say it is not what ones sell, but it is what others are willing to buy. Feb 27 23:30
zuza (To be honest I can’t understand the idea of mixed source at all – ok, ok, I read the definition a few times). Feb 27 23:31
oiaohm MS idea Feb 27 23:32
oiaohm Most people don’t run pure open source machines. Feb 27 23:32
oiaohm that is the way it is. Feb 27 23:32
oiaohm People don’t run pure closed either. Feb 27 23:32
oiaohm So MS says it Mixed source. Feb 27 23:32
oiaohm Difference here Open Source OS is talking about the core of the OS being open. Feb 27 23:33
schestowitz zuza:http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… “DO NOT partner with Microsoft ! “ Feb 27 23:33
schestowitz See context too Feb 27 23:33
zuza Oh, I guess I meant that I can’t get the idea of developing a mixed source product. Feb 27 23:33
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… “Glad to see people are wise to Novell’s dumb business decisions and are avoiding them like the plague. Stick with Red Hat or Canonical and you will be much better off.” Feb 27 23:33
zuza isn’t Red hat doing som virtualisation business with MS lately? Feb 27 23:34
schestowitz “Hey! Novell look at Redhat and Ubuntu. They are doing well and did not take bribe money from Microsoft. ” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… Feb 27 23:34
schestowitz zuza: yes Feb 27 23:34
schestowitz Without patents Feb 27 23:34
zuza OK, al goes wrong Novell kills SUSE as a project. But I can’t understand the threat. Feb 27 23:35
schestowitz zuza: many good comments about Novell’s poor results, I suggest you read ‘em: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_s… Feb 27 23:36
zuza for open source. Feb 27 23:36
schestowitz it’s s not just us Feb 27 23:36
schestowitz LinuxToday has many 10s of 1000s of readers and they dislike NOVL too Feb 27 23:36
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story… “Novell seems like Sun, sometimes they like open source software and Linux, other times they wish the open source and Linux never existed…..” Feb 27 23:38
oiaohm Sun is diffent to Nvell Feb 27 23:40
oiaohm Novell Feb 27 23:40
oiaohm Sun can make a profit without a software side. Feb 27 23:40
schestowitz Yes Feb 27 23:41
schestowitz Could. Feb 27 23:41
schestowitz Sun is now liaising with HP Feb 27 23:41
oiaohm Sun has a fairly strong hardware side. Feb 27 23:44
oiaohm What does Novell have that is strong. Feb 27 23:44
schestowitz It’s still trying to find out Feb 27 23:46
zuza Wordperfect story with MS Corp. ;-) Feb 27 23:46
schestowitz It tries security… identity.. Feb 27 23:46
schestowitz zuza: that’s on the ice pretty much Feb 27 23:46
zuza It was my first guess when I heard of MS-Novell deal Feb 27 23:47
zuza As it might bee cheaper to buy Novell thhan to put things to trial. Feb 27 23:47
zuza (solved by trial) Feb 27 23:48
schestowitz Advogato, Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, Digg, Reddit, Flickr, Linkedin, helpmeee!! < http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/02/… > Feb 27 23:48
zuza SO weakening Novl is one thing, but still I can’t get the threat to open source (ok, I looked through that links and comments) Feb 27 23:49
zuza schestowitz: err, what does it mean “on the ice”? kehem “hot? (lol ;-) ) Feb 27 23:49
schestowitz No Word about it [pun Feb 27 23:50
*schestowitz thinks he gets a mild headache this evening Feb 27 23:52
zuza is a mild headache like being half pregnant? Feb 27 23:52
MinceR Word — Write letterz n’ shit, yo. Feb 27 23:52
MinceR gn Feb 27 23:53
schestowitz Wooord! Feb 27 23:55
schestowitz http://comakid.files.wordpress.co… Feb 27 23:55
schestowitz zuza: no, just a sign that I need to make some tea! :-) Feb 27 23:55
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 27 23:56
zuza Orange pekoe has been sucking lately in my nearby area. ;-) Feb 27 23:56
schestowitz I see.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Pekoe Feb 27 23:57
schestowitz Had to look it up.. Feb 27 23:57
zuza Ah, I have got a question about mixed source that i can’t understand as well. :-) Feb 27 23:59
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