03.23.09

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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 22nd, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:24 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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Eruaran One of the commenters is Will Stephenson who says: Mar 22 00:00
Eruaran I’ve been working with Eric to package the Qyoto bindings in the KDE 4.2 repository from the openSUSE Build Service. You can find them here: http://download.opensuse.org/repos… Mar 22 00:00
Eruaran Same crowd Mar 22 00:00
schestowitz Oh Mar 22 00:01
schestowitz But wait Mar 22 00:02
schestowitz is there any URL that directly shows Novell’s hand in this (KDE-Mono) Mar 22 00:02
Eruaran I doubt there would be Mar 22 00:03
Eruaran But their purpose seems to be to disrupt established projects Mar 22 00:03
Eruaran I mean why Synapse ? Mar 22 00:03
Eruaran Yet another instant messenger ? Mar 22 00:03
Eruaran And they’re aiming at KDE4 Mar 22 00:04
Eruaran Where you’ll find a popular KDE project called… Kopete Mar 22 00:04
Eruaran Instead of contributing to already existing projects, these assholes only and ALWAYS do another project entirely that is dependant on Mono Mar 22 00:06
schestowitz Really? Mar 22 00:07
schestowitz Mono? Mar 22 00:07
schestowitz In KDE, as substitute? Mar 22 00:07
Eruaran In Miguel De Icaza’s own words, “built with Qt/Qyoto/Mono” Mar 22 00:07
Eruaran This makes me so angry Mar 22 00:08
Eruaran fucking piece of pond scum Mar 22 00:08
MinceR nah, none of the things that live in a pond are nearly as nasty Mar 22 00:08
Eruaran my apologies to the pond Mar 22 00:09
Eruaran These scumbags do not contribute to projects, they create new projects that depend on Mono Mar 22 00:09
Eruaran Don’t think its unrelated Mar 22 00:12
Eruaran This guy goes out for dinner with Miguel Mar 22 00:12
Eruaran Why not contribute to Koptete, which most KDE users use ? Mar 22 00:13
Eruaran Why create a whole other application ? Mar 22 00:13
Eruaran And why Mono ? Mar 22 00:14
Eruaran You can bet anything that Miguel thinks is “a beautiful application” is as insidious as the friends he likes to hang out with in Redmond. Mar 22 00:15
Balrog I don’t think the KDE people will support this… Mar 22 00:19
Balrog or will they …. Mar 22 00:20
schestowitz They do the same via OpenSUSE Mar 22 00:21
schestowitz Pollute Mar 22 00:21
schestowitz They take pride in Mono and Moonlight Mar 22 00:21
schestowitz it’s Novell’s secret sauce Mar 22 00:21
Balrog who will support this if people have problems……? Mar 22 00:21
Balrog KDE or Mono? Mar 22 00:22
schestowitz Protection, makes Microsoft happy (Novell need to suck up to them for coupons)… Mar 22 00:22
schestowitz Balrog: I don’t know. Mar 22 00:22
Balrog neither do I… Mar 22 00:22
Balrog it should be obvious what MS is trying to do …. Mar 22 00:23
Eruaran I think Will Stephenson still works for Novell ? Mar 22 00:25
Eruaran Confirmed. Mar 22 00:29
Eruaran Captcha is such crap Mar 22 00:31
Eruaran Supposed to confirm you’re human Mar 22 00:32
Eruaran And humans cant read the crap is displays Mar 22 00:32
Eruaran that took about 5 tries… Mar 22 00:34
Balrog what about reCaptcha and other open stuff? Mar 22 00:45
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oiaohm schestowitz: been looking ACMA has had all the power for what they are doing for a long time.   ACMA has not fired any staff even that other goverment departmarts have.  So I would think its a pure money grab caused by the downturn. Mar 22 00:58
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_Hicham_1 hi all Mar 22 01:05
PetoKraus hello Mar 22 01:06
_Hicham_1 how r u doing? Mar 22 01:07
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PetoKraus partially drunk, so pretty well Mar 22 01:08
PetoKraus the term is finishing, go figure Mar 22 01:08
PetoKraus how about you? Mar 22 01:09
mib_blr46h f:::: microsoft they are like thief’s Mar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1 im fine, not drunk Mar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1 but i think i should Mar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1 Roy is not here? Mar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1 PetoKraus : u are very drunk Mar 22 01:13
_Hicham_1 :D Mar 22 01:13
PetoKraus _Hicham_1: not really. Mar 22 01:14
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PetoKraus i can still walk straight line, think, and type pretty typo-free :P means, it’s not that bad Mar 22 01:14
_Hicham_1 did u use LXDE? Mar 22 01:15
PetoKraus no never. Mar 22 01:15
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PetoKraus ever since I started using Linux, i’m using E Mar 22 01:15
_Hicham_1 E? Mar 22 01:16
PetoKraus Enlightenment Mar 22 01:16
PetoKraus i mean, THAT was the thing which made me switch Mar 22 01:16
_Hicham_1 is it really light? Mar 22 01:17
PetoKraus no Mar 22 01:17
PetoKraus it’s just pretty Mar 22 01:17
PetoKraus and i like it Mar 22 01:17
PetoKraus i don’t really like gnome, and KDE just feels slow compared to E Mar 22 01:18
_Hicham_1 which distro are u using? Mar 22 01:18
PetoKraus (though to be honest, i never gave KDE a good try) Mar 22 01:18
PetoKraus Archlinux Mar 22 01:18
PetoKraus but i’ve gone trough a couple already (Elive, Debian, Gentoo, Arch) Mar 22 01:19
_Hicham_1 i heard that it is filled with configuration Mar 22 01:19
_Hicham_1 i never gave it a try Mar 22 01:19
PetoKraus yes Mar 22 01:19
PetoKraus well it’s for people who know what they want Mar 22 01:19
PetoKraus made by people who don’t care about others opinion ;) Mar 22 01:19
schestowitz Sorry I’ve been quiet. Posted links before bedtime. Hope you like em. Mar 22 01:20
schestowitz gn Mar 22 01:20
PetoKraus there is a coherent mindset among the small group of developers. That’s good, it keeps the project focused and on track Mar 22 01:20
PetoKraus schestowitz: gn Mar 22 01:20
_Hicham_1 is it like gentoo? Mar 22 01:20
PetoKraus it depends what aspect do you mean Mar 22 01:20
_Hicham_1 do u have to compile everything, or there are binaries? Mar 22 01:21
PetoKraus it’s more user friendly, you don’t need to toy around with useflags. It’s also faster to maintain, due to binary packages. It’s overally less stable though, Mar 22 01:21
PetoKraus due to it’s bleeding-edge rolling-release nature Mar 22 01:21
PetoKraus so if you don’t read news and just update, you can end up with unbootable system or so Mar 22 01:22
PetoKraus (well, that’s what the news are for, you ought to check them…) Mar 22 01:22
_Hicham_1 like debian sid Mar 22 01:22
_Hicham_1 ? Mar 22 01:22
PetoKraus (prime example being transitions to new Xorg servers) Mar 22 01:22
PetoKraus well, we could say yes Mar 22 01:22
PetoKraus but packages are NOT split in idiotical -dev -doc -whatever way Mar 22 01:23
_Hicham_1 u just get the full package, with development headers and doc? Mar 22 01:23
PetoKraus and the arch build system is REALLY easy to grasp Mar 22 01:23
PetoKraus i think so Mar 22 01:23
PetoKraus (arch build system is there to help you rebuild packages if they need to be rebuilt againist new libraries, which happens from time to time) Mar 22 01:24
_Hicham_1 then the packages must be huge Mar 22 01:24
PetoKraus well Mar 22 01:25
_Hicham_1 the dependencies are well managed? Mar 22 01:25
PetoKraus yes they are Mar 22 01:25
PetoKraus you can force-remove a package though Mar 22 01:25
PetoKraus if you want to Mar 22 01:26
PetoKraus which is a good feature, if you want to replace one thing deep in the dependency stack with something custom built Mar 22 01:26
PetoKraus libx11 has 9880KB installed size Mar 22 01:26
MinceR gn Mar 22 01:27
PetoKraus and i guess it includes all of those: http://packages.debian.org/search?… Mar 22 01:27
_Hicham_1 wow Mar 22 01:27
_Hicham_1 that is not very practical Mar 22 01:28
_Hicham_1 it is not for daily use then Mar 22 01:28
_Hicham_1 it is developer centric Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus hmm Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus it’s simple Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus you know you want libx11 Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus so you get it whole as it is Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus vanilla, from upstream Mar 22 01:28
PetoKraus that’s the main point of arch as well Mar 22 01:29
_Hicham_1 everything is vanilla version? Mar 22 01:29
PetoKraus most of the packages are vanilla. Kernel is only slightly patched, for example Mar 22 01:29
_Hicham_1 what about performance? Mar 22 01:29
PetoKraus xorg-server has just the xorg-redhat-die-ugly-pattern-die-die-die.patch Mar 22 01:30
PetoKraus well Mar 22 01:30
PetoKraus it’s i686 and x86_64 Mar 22 01:30
_Hicham_1 do u have i686? Mar 22 01:30
PetoKraus x86_64 Mar 22 01:30
PetoKraus i’ve got a Core 2 Duo machine Mar 22 01:30
PetoKraus i am running testing Mar 22 01:31
PetoKraus so far, i’ve spotted quite a lot of bugs Mar 22 01:31
PetoKraus but either they are fixed quite fast Mar 22 01:31
PetoKraus or not :) Mar 22 01:31
PetoKraus and most of them are xorg related Mar 22 01:31
_Hicham_1 xorg is always filled with bugs Mar 22 01:32
PetoKraus yeah Mar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1 especially memory leaks Mar 22 01:32
PetoKraus i’ve got a nice memleak right now Mar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1 as they are hard to track Mar 22 01:32
PetoKraus http://bugs.archlinux.or… Mar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1 it is quick Mar 22 01:35
_Hicham_1 the community is very active Mar 22 01:36
PetoKraus yes Mar 22 01:36
PetoKraus packages get marked out of date within minutes of release Mar 22 01:36
PetoKraus i am quite keeping track on ATI and Xorg announcements on their mailinglists Mar 22 01:36
PetoKraus and i’ve never managed to report a package out of date Mar 22 01:37
PetoKraus and there’s Xorg 1.6.0 going to extra within few days Mar 22 01:37
_Hicham_1 Xorg will always have problems Mar 22 01:37
_Hicham_1 since open source drivers can’t follow up Mar 22 01:38
_Hicham_1 it is sad, but it is the truth Mar 22 01:39
_Hicham_1 if u want good working Xorg, pick up an old hardware Mar 22 01:39
PetoKraus yeah Mar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1 worse, ati proprietary driver drops support for old hardware Mar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1 so ur hardware must not be very new, nor very old Mar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1 the only company which keeps their drivers open source is intel Mar 22 01:43
_Hicham_1 once again, intel chipsets are not very powerful Mar 22 01:43
_Hicham_1 especially for gamers Mar 22 01:43
PetoKraus well i’m happy with ATI foss drivers Mar 22 01:44
_Hicham_1 me too Mar 22 01:44
_Hicham_1 i dont use proprietary one anymore Mar 22 01:45
_Hicham_1 have had more problem with the proprietary one Mar 22 01:45
_Hicham_1 1 problem : couldnt play videos with xv and compiz Mar 22 01:45
PetoKraus yeah Mar 22 01:46
_Hicham_1 second : screen corruption when trying to swap between lcd and crt Mar 22 01:46
_Hicham_1 third : any opengl window flickers with compiz on Mar 22 01:47
_Hicham_1 by the way, do u use compiz? Mar 22 01:47
PetoKraus no :) Mar 22 01:48
PetoKraus i use enlightenment, that’s a window manager Mar 22 01:48
oiaohm DRI 2 designed drivers are way better than DRI 1 versions. Mar 22 01:48
oiaohm Compiz was doing a nasty hack on DRI 1 drivers leading to all kinds of bad things. Mar 22 01:49
oiaohm flicking was the smallest of the troubles that could happen. Mar 22 01:49
_Hicham_1 wb oiaohm Mar 22 01:49
_Hicham_1 always glad to hear from u Mar 22 01:50
oiaohm Linux Hater at moment is trying to make out that boottime is not important. Mar 22 01:50
PetoKraus brb Mar 22 01:50
oiaohm Its one of the most important benchmark systems. Mar 22 01:50
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oiaohm Where else can you test kernel operations in a 100 percent repeatable way. Mar 22 01:51
_Hicham_1 i heard that intel guys managed to get fedora booting in 5 seconds Mar 22 01:52
_Hicham_1 did u read about that? Mar 22 01:52
oiaohm How was stripping services. Mar 22 01:53
oiaohm And fast boot patches that are not mainline yet. Mar 22 01:53
oiaohm In theory the init process should be able to start inside 1 secound of kernel init. Mar 22 01:53
_Hicham_1 did u read the article in lwn? Mar 22 01:54
oiaohm I directly folllow the fast boot sub tree of the Linux kernel. Mar 22 01:57
_Hicham_1 why the patches from the Intel engineers weren’t merged? Mar 22 01:58
oiaohm Lot of work is need to make sure they are stable in all events. Mar 22 01:58
oiaohm There were quite a few lets just by pass locks for now in the first patches. Mar 22 01:58
oiaohm So locking structs and the like have to be corrected before applied to mainline. Mar 22 01:59
_Hicham_1 I was really glad to hear that Mar 22 02:00
oiaohm Yes its easy to do proff of consept.  Making the final product is the hard bit. Mar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1 Windows is faster to boot Mar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1 overall Mar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1 that is what i remarked Mar 22 02:00
oiaohm Windows is faster for two reasons. Mar 22 02:00
oiaohm Number one there complier optimises way better than gcc. Mar 22 02:01
oiaohm Number two lot of stuff has been done on boot time profiling. Mar 22 02:01
Eruaran my Kubuntu 9.04 boots pretty fast Mar 22 02:01
oiaohm Eruaran: its a snail to what it could be. Mar 22 02:01
oiaohm Current gcc has a fatail flaw. Mar 22 02:02
oiaohm ld stage does no optimisation. Mar 22 02:02
oiaohm ld/linking. Mar 22 02:02
_Hicham_1 oiaohm : what if we use icc? Mar 22 02:02
oiaohm llvm releation to gcc does link time optimisation. Mar 22 02:02
oiaohm icc is not 100 percent gcc compadible. Mar 22 02:03
_Hicham_1 have u ever tried to compile the kernel with icc? Mar 22 02:03
oiaohm Not advistable. Mar 22 02:03
oiaohm Linux kernel has a lot of gcc only stuff. Mar 22 02:04
oiaohm To optimise stuff. Mar 22 02:04
oiaohm icc ends up slower than gcc Mar 22 02:04
_Hicham_1 can we use llvm then to optimize during link time? Mar 22 02:05
oiaohm Yes. Mar 22 02:08
_Hicham_1 why it is not done then? Mar 22 02:09
oiaohm Good question. Mar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1 do u have the answer? Mar 22 02:10
oiaohm Most distributions are sticking to the complier they know it seams. Mar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1 i dont understand Mar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1 can u explain more? Mar 22 02:11
oiaohm There is really no specal reason against using llvm. Mar 22 02:11
_Hicham_1 is it a matter of compatibility? Mar 22 02:11
oiaohm Other than build scripts are design to ask for gcc first. Mar 22 02:11
oiaohm Its just a simple case of people using what they know. Mar 22 02:11
oiaohm In 12 months time it most likely will not be important when gcc should get link time optimisation as well. Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1 have u ever tried to use llvm with the kernel? Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1 i mean to build it Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1 ? Mar 22 02:12
oiaohm Linux kernel I have not tried llvm on. Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1 u dont have time to? Mar 22 02:13
oiaohm I have a rule with my Linux kernel when it working right leave it alone. Mar 22 02:14
oiaohm http://llvm.org/docs/Garbag…  << llvm has a huge effect on memory usage of  C++ programs. Mar 22 02:14
_Hicham_1 does it support automatic garbage colletion? Mar 22 02:16
oiaohm Type Mar 22 02:17
oiaohm of automatic garbage collection. Mar 22 02:17
_Hicham_1 without altering performance? Mar 22 02:18
oiaohm Accurate Garbage Collection used in llvm is more complex on the complier.  Since at run time is not really garbage collection Mar 22 02:18
oiaohm allocation and free statements.   It takes less cpu time because most of the work of the garbage collection was done at built time. Mar 22 02:18
_Hicham_1 garbage collection at build time? Mar 22 02:19
oiaohm Yep Mar 22 02:20
oiaohm Instead of runtime Mar 22 02:20
_Hicham_1 that is pretty powerful Mar 22 02:21
_Hicham_1 java is fucked then Mar 22 02:21
oiaohm Java to native code in not fucked. Mar 22 02:22
oiaohm As complier improve the advantages of jit will reduce. Mar 22 02:23
_Hicham_1 it is fucked then Mar 22 02:23
_Hicham_1 since memory management is one of the things that attracts programmers Mar 22 02:24
_Hicham_1 if u give them automatic memory management Mar 22 02:24
_Hicham_1 while retaining full performance of native code Mar 22 02:24
oiaohm llvm is a code rewriter as well. Mar 22 02:24
oiaohm When gcc gets link time optmistaion as well less time programmers will have to spend optimising for speed. Mar 22 02:25
_Hicham_1 is there a benchmark for code compiled with gcc vs llvm? Mar 22 02:25
oiaohm The interesting bench mark I cannot find what is a C++ bench. Mar 22 02:31
oiaohm Other problem is most benchmarks don’t show the linktime optimisation effect. Mar 22 02:32
oiaohm Yes gcc can beat llvm slightly when everything is in a single file. Mar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1 i mean, a known program such as firefox, compiled with and without llvm Mar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1 what would be best? Mar 22 02:32
oiaohm llvm Mar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1 better than pgo? Mar 22 02:33
oiaohm portland group would still be faster. Mar 22 02:33
_Hicham_1 on linux? Mar 22 02:33
oiaohm Reason it has optimisations like gcc can do in a single file. Mar 22 02:33
oiaohm Done accross the complete application. Mar 22 02:33
oiaohm On Linux _Hicham_1 Mar 22 02:34
_Hicham_1 can we compile firefox with portland’s group? Mar 22 02:34
oiaohm If you buy portland group and using gcc emulation yes. Mar 22 02:34
_Hicham_1 have u tested that? Mar 22 02:35
oiaohm Best result you can get is a evil long process out the the open source. Mar 22 02:35
oiaohm Use llvm to merge application into one huge single c or c++ file. Mar 22 02:36
oiaohm Then process gcc over that file. Mar 22 02:36
oiaohm And pray gcc don’t crash. Mar 22 02:36
oiaohm I have done that on a few items.  Firefox is down right scary.  Watched 8 gb of ram disappear. Mar 22 02:37
oiaohm into gcc Mar 22 02:37
_Hicham_1 8gb of ram? Mar 22 02:38
oiaohm Yes complier using 8gb of ram to process stuff out _Hicham_1 Mar 22 02:38
_Hicham_1 wow Mar 22 02:40
_Hicham_1 pretty scary Mar 22 02:40
_Hicham_1 what about llvm? Mar 22 02:40
*tessier needs to learn more about llvm Mar 22 02:57
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mib_6phd9a Sigh…no one’s ever here when I visit.  That’s what I get for living at the other side of the world. Mar 22 03:24
_Hicham_1 hi there Mar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9a Chris Day here, just checking in to see if there’s a conversation going. Mar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9a Hi Hicham_1!  There’s someone here! Mar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9a It’s 8:30pm where I am. Mar 22 03:26
_Hicham_1 yes Mar 22 03:26
_Hicham_1 where r u? Mar 22 03:26
mib_6phd9a Sadly, I have nothing interesting to add to any conversations, I generally just read them. (I’m in Arizona, USA Mar 22 03:27
_Hicham_1 u can add whatever u want Mar 22 03:28
mib_6phd9a Whenever I have time off work I try to check here to see if there’s a coversation going.  I usually just get to read the archived chats. Mar 22 03:28
mib_6phd9a Oops that should have been “conversation”… Mar 22 03:29
mib_6phd9a I’d much rather read than comment… Mar 22 03:29
mib_6phd9a Bye for now… Mar 22 03:31
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oiaohm _Hicham_1 llvm alone not that scary.   Its all the optimisation processing gcc can do and its memory leaks that end up at the 8 gb mark. Mar 22 03:49
oiaohm About 1 GB should be enough if stuff don’t leak _Hicham_1 Mar 22 03:50
_Hicham_1 1 GB for firefox? Mar 22 04:15
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yuhong I finally reviewed the IRC logs and realize why I did not get any response. Mar 22 04:42
yuhong I think it is related to trolling. Mar 22 04:42
oiaohm First time I have seen you I think yuhong Mar 22 04:43
yuhong oiaohm: No, I was on IRC long before you have seen me. Mar 22 04:44
oiaohm I was meaning putting a message in here yuhong Mar 22 04:45
yuhong On the matter of laptop gifting, I think the key thing is the conditions of the gift Mar 22 04:45
oiaohm Not really yuhong Mar 22 04:46
oiaohm Taking gifts by nature can introduce bias. Mar 22 04:46
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oiaohm Key thing is being truthful about taking gifts. Mar 22 04:47
oiaohm O well warped mood.  A Riddle with many different answers.  When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key? Mar 22 04:55
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schestowitz Hey Mar 22 07:12
oiaohm Hi schestowitz Mar 22 07:24
oiaohm A Riddle with many different answers.  When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key? Mar 22 07:24
schestowitz Go ahead. Mar 22 07:25
oiaohm One as when its on a map. Mar 22 07:26
schestowitz I c……. Mar 22 07:29
schestowitz IBM bid reportedly held up by due diligence < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ib… > Mar 22 07:29
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schestowitz Microsoft uses the press and bloggers whom it bribes to set a consensus where Windows7 is the naked emperor and you must love it: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0… Mar 22 08:14
schestowitz Coverage in Vista in the past week: 3; ‘Windows 7′: 12 Mar 22 08:15
schestowitz Take home message: Forget the present. Think about the future. Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware. Mar 22 08:15
schestowitz hhhmmmm…. Microsoft not a sponsor here: http://www.sdforum.org/index.cfm?fuseact… But it uses it to corrupt ‘open source’ nonethelesss Mar 22 08:21
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schestowitz Two bad companies join forces. “Coke has teamed up with Microsoft to give away three million Microsoft points for free to Xbox Live users. ” < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Coke… > Mar 22 08:28
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schestowitz Microsoft shuts Adcenter Analytics  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new… > Mar 22 09:13
schestowitz Oh! The Microsoft talking points unleashed by it’s shill Preston Gralla: ” Google is following in Microsoft’s monopoly footsteps” Mar 22 09:13
schestowitz Classic. Off Microsoft’s books…delivered by it’s loyal shill, Gralla. Mar 22 09:13
schestowitz Gralla’s posting pattern: anti-Google, anti-Google, anti-Linux, pro-Vista7, anti-Google, anti-Linux……. he’s worse than Enderle Mar 22 09:15
oiaohm Gralla there is not much I can do to take a person like him out. Mar 22 09:16
oiaohm Other than hope his funding drys up. Mar 22 09:16
schestowitz He’s in IDG Mar 22 09:16
schestowitz They are paid by Microsoft Mar 22 09:16
schestowitz SJVN is the only person then not toxicated by with bias Mar 22 09:16
schestowitz Money at ‘work’: U.S. taxpayers funding Microsoft campus bridge < http://news.cnet.com/8301-… >; US taxpayers to build Microsoft a bridge < http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?opti… > Mar 22 09:22
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trmanco http://www.extremetech.com/… Mar 22 11:01
trmanco we can’t even see porn for free now Mar 22 11:01
trmanco Playboy Posts Unedited Back Issues Online, for Free Mar 22 11:02
trmanco “Through a partnership between Microsoft and Bondi Digital Publishing, Playboy Enterprises has put 53 back issues of Playboy on the Web, viewable through Microsoft’s Silverlight viewer. “ Mar 22 11:02
trmanco microsoft goes after porn addicts now Mar 22 11:02
schestowitz Miguel de Icaza bragged about it Mar 22 11:05
schestowitz Watch his blog Mar 22 11:05
trmanco Mar 22 11:07
oiaohm I hope tomtom wins case against MS. Mar 22 11:11
oiaohm Might get MS out of the idea that Patents will save them. Mar 22 11:12
oiaohm And them seeing them as loaded guns pointed at them. Mar 22 11:12
zer0c00l ” microsoft goes after porn addicts now” M$ itself a seductive wh0re :P Mar 22 11:15
schestowitz zer0c00l: Microsoft has a proven record of using sex to sell. I have examples. Mar 22 11:19
oiaohm You would not have the one with the lady with privates covered by cd in your collection schestowitz Mar 22 11:21
oiaohm When computer mags really controling ad content. Mar 22 11:22
schestowitz oiaohm: I don’t think I saw that one Mar 22 11:33
schestowitz Maybe it requires Silver Lies ;-) Mar 22 11:33
oiaohm Its 1983 about.  Yes I read some really old mags at one point. Mar 22 11:35
oiaohm It got confustated when I was in high school. Mar 22 11:37
trmanco zer0c00l, :p Mar 22 11:57
schestowitz oiaohm: the magazine of the Microsoft wares? (confiscated) Mar 22 11:58
oiaohm It was the ad Lady was basically nude bar correctly place arm and correctly placed cd. Mar 22 12:00
oiaohm Basically the is no way you would get that into a general computer mag of today. Mar 22 12:00
oiaohm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art… << So how I think we are getting too smart for our own good. Mar 22 12:00
oiaohm Australia uses Active Area Dinial Systems instead of mine field on the battle field all ready. Mar 22 12:02
oiaohm Basically walk into the area have automatic guns target and fire on you. Mar 22 12:05
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_Hicham_1 Hi All! Mar 22 12:06
oiaohm Hi _Hicham_1 Mar 22 12:07
schestowitz Hey, _Hicham_1 Mar 22 12:09
_Hicham_1 how r u doing? Mar 22 12:12
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Eruaran hi Mar 22 12:42
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schestowitz Hey Mar 22 13:17
trmanco http://www.raduc.ro/blog/2009/li… Mar 22 13:19
trmanco haha, funny Mar 22 13:19
trmanco http://www.tuxradar.com/co… -> finally a good non newbie  tutorial Mar 22 13:21
*schestowitz disinterested in Linux fanboyism Mar 22 13:25
schestowitz *Linus, not Linux Mar 22 13:25
trmanco it’s not fanboyism Mar 22 13:26
trmanco fanboys are the kind of people that if you say something negative about what they like, they will punch you in the face Mar 22 13:27
trmanco enthusiast would be a better word Mar 22 13:28
trmanco bbl Mar 22 13:28
schestowitz Yeah. Mar 22 13:29
schestowitz I didn’t read it carefully, but those posts that glorify Linus are kind of petty sometimes Mar 22 13:29
schestowitz The operating system is the work of so many Mar 22 13:29
oiaohm Linus is known for his means to start and end flame wars. Mar 22 13:31
oiaohm Yes I do mean start.  Some of the most famous in the Linux mailing list were started by him. Mar 22 13:31
Eruaran I do that as a source of amusement Mar 22 13:35
schestowitz oiaohm: he views it as humour, I guess. Mar 22 13:38
oiaohm Normally it keyboard in mouth. Mar 22 13:39
oiaohm Like making a mistake of critising C++ Mar 22 13:39
oiaohm That turned into a multi month debate. Mar 22 13:39
schestowitz KY Election Officials Arrested, Charged With ‘Changing Votes at E-Voting Machines’ < http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7001 > Mar 22 13:42
schestowitz Does it say in whose favour they tilted it? Mar 22 13:43
oiaohm http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009… Mar 22 13:44
schestowitz oiaohm:  Last week the server did about 300 SQL/ops per second, so we /really/ needed to take it offline and rethink. The host is happy enough with the changes we made. I applied some caching, so it’s down to just over 100 SQL/ops per second now. I think we outgrew Groklaw a while ago. Mar 22 13:47
oiaohm Yep caching of some form was required. Mar 22 13:47
schestowitz Boycott Novell keeps growing and I discover about journalists who lurk there (they tell me) even if they don’t comment or reference it. I think the name makes them too reluctant to link to it. Imagine linking from academic work to stuff that’s called “boycott {anything}” Mar 22 13:48
schestowitz The issues is that inbound links leads to greater visibility and lacking an image that’s easy to link to, this may prove hard. Diversity/pluralism in sources too is needed but I cross-ref for speed most of the time Mar 22 13:49
Eruaran They can link to your sources Mar 22 13:49
schestowitz Nasty picture there with the snake, but there are uglier ones Mar 22 13:50
schestowitz Pythons can devours adult humans too Mar 22 13:50
schestowitz Anacondas — easily. Mar 22 13:50
schestowitz Eruaran: yes, that’s what they do. Wikipedia is a similar story Mar 22 13:50
schestowitz Academic forbid using Wikipedia as a source, so people skip to “References”. We have some links in Wikipedia too, but I noticed that over time they get changed (‘ironed out’) Mar 22 13:51
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_Hicham_1 oiaohm : are u still here? Mar 22 14:01
oiaohm Yep Mar 22 14:04
schestowitz Hey, _Hicham_1. Mar 22 14:20
schestowitz _Hicham_1: do you think BN should change the theme? Me and others in IRC discussed it yesterday and looked at themes. It was decided at the end that it’s better not to change. Shane is also pretty much in favour of tweaking the existing one, but I’m not so sure. Mar 22 14:28
_Hicham_1 Roy : the theme should be changed Mar 22 14:37
_Hicham_1 also, the site must reorganized Mar 22 14:38
_Hicham_1 i think that it is pretty confusing Mar 22 14:39
_Hicham_1 the site have grown to be more than a Novell issue Mar 22 14:43
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_Hicham_1 no one  is in here Mar 22 15:01
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*schestowitz does things around the house today Mar 22 15:10
schestowitz _Hicham_1: agreed. I will need to index the material and organise by topic/timeline Mar 22 15:13
schestowitz I’ll use the wiki Mar 22 15:13
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_Hicham_1 Roy : the wiki is great idea Mar 22 15:39
schestowitz I’ll check WordPress extensions dirst Mar 22 16:01
schestowitz There might be something to pull related posts and make sense of them based on categories. Mar 22 16:01
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_Hicham_1 I dont know about wordpress Mar 22 16:18
_Hicham_1 I use Drupal Mar 22 16:18
schestowitz I’ll need to find a new way to manage the site Mar 22 16:42
schestowitz I am upgrading two blogs today Mar 22 16:42
schestowitz But for BN I’ll need to manually do the index in a Wiki and then link to it. Mar 22 16:43
schestowitz WP 2.7 is really nice. I am upgrading the third Web site now. Maybe you can see it on that CMS test drive site…  familiarise yourself with the new admin panel. Installation now is super simple. File management too. Mar 22 16:45
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_Hicham_1 the channel is quiet today Mar 22 18:50
_Hicham_1 weird Mar 22 18:50
Balrog_ I’m here Mar 22 19:08
schestowitz I’m back Mar 22 19:16
schestowitz _Hicham_1: yes, sometimes it’s quiet. I’m also not doing much but housework today Mar 22 19:17
_Hicham_1 are u living alone? Mar 22 19:20
_Hicham_1 no one to help around? Mar 22 19:20
schestowitz Yes. Mar 22 19:20
Balrog_ I’m here Mar 22 19:21
_Hicham_1 BN is now a big source of information Mar 22 19:21
_Hicham_1 but be careful Roy, someone may try to kill u Mar 22 19:22
schestowitz My mail is not getting through right now. Hasn’t for about 2 hours. Could back mail server lag :-S Mar 22 19:38
Balrog_ hope not ddos Mar 22 19:39
Balrog_ :/ Mar 22 19:39
schestowitz HTTP works well Mar 22 19:39
schestowitz It’s too early to ask the host Mar 22 19:39
Balrog_ hm ok. Mar 22 19:39
Balrog_ ping the mail server Mar 22 19:40
Balrog_ do you have ssh access? Mar 22 19:40
schestowitz No Mar 22 19:40
schestowitz It’s not bouncing either Mar 22 19:40
Balrog_ :/ Mar 22 19:40
Balrog_ ssh access is very useful Mar 22 19:40
schestowitz I have a quota warning, but that’s not it Mar 22 19:40
schestowitz “Server Load  2.85 (4 cpus)” Mar 22 19:41
Balrog_ hm. Mar 22 19:42
schestowitz via FTP, nothing’s there. Mar 22 19:44
Balrog_ normal? Mar 22 19:44
schestowitz I’ll make some space just in case Mar 22 19:47
schestowitz The mail server seems to have been down for 3 hours or something like that unless I am doing something wrong (nothing was changed on my account). I’ll admit this is so rare that I can’t recall it ever occurring before. Mar 22 19:58
Balrog_ hrm. Mar 22 19:59
schestowitz “I am working on a few issues with blueberry at the moment, so have shutdown exim as a precaution, any email will be queued and delivered once its all up and running again. My apologies for any inconvenience caused.” Mar 22 20:08
schestowitz So they know about it. But wow. You have no idea how rare this is, and no mail will be lost, either. Mar 22 20:09
Balrog_ I see. Mar 22 20:09
schestowitz In 4 years I can think of maybe 2 occasions when the mail server was no there. And I poll every 60 seconds on the main account. Mar 22 20:09
Balrog_ they’re not using sendmail :) Mar 22 20:09
schestowitz No. Mar 22 20:09
schestowitz brb Mar 22 20:10
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trmanco http://www.tuxradar.com/conte… Mar 22 20:20
MinceR r4wr Mar 22 20:33
trmanco what?? Mar 22 20:37
MinceR r4wr! Mar 22 20:43
trmanco :| Mar 22 20:43
MinceR >:3 Mar 22 20:43
trmanco rawr Mar 22 20:43
schestowitz trmanco: BN does more Mar 22 20:45
schestowitz ” Linux users make up 34.47% and Mac users are 9.19%. Here’s the full list: Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    1. Windows: 55.11% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    2. Linux: 34.47% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    3. Macintosh: 9.19% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    4. iPhone: 0.45% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    5. Unknown: 0.35% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    6. iPod: 0.14% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    7. FreeBSD: 0.08% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    8. SunOS: 0.07% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz    9. Android: 0.05% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   10. SymbianOS: 0.03% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   11. OpenBSD: 0.01% Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz Mar 22 20:46
Balrog_ those are people who go to tuxradar? Mar 22 20:49
Balrog_ not surprising Mar 22 20:49
schestowitz Yes, similar in BN Mar 22 20:54
schestowitz For mMrach 2009: Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz “Windows81095044.5 % Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz Linux72198839.6 % Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz Unknown18651710.2 % Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz Macintosh953045.2 % Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz BSD22400.1 %” Mar 22 20:55
Balrog_ those numbers are all mixed :/ Mar 22 21:00
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schestowitz Search Google Images By Color < http://blogoscoped.com/archive/20… > Mar 22 21:08
MinceR i prefer tineye.com Mar 22 21:09
schestowitz GNU/Linux sub-notebooks now selling for $200: http://asuseeehacks.blogspot.com/2009/03/… (TomTop sells 7″ Xburst Netbooks for USD209) Mar 22 21:09
schestowitz Hahaha. “[Via Google Translate: Richard Stollman. In 1990, he announced a crusade against Microsoft and several other whale computer business. He cracks the sites where the proposed purchase new software. And then handed out to the people free.]” http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.co… Mar 22 21:10
schestowitz Тaking the War against Terror to a New Level… < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200… > Mar 22 21:13
_Hicham_2 Roy : u may be reported as a terrorist Mar 22 21:15
_Hicham_2 after being reported as a child molester Mar 22 21:15
schestowitz If only it was true… Mar 22 21:15
schestowitz Never been labels (libeled) a “terrorist” before and I could probably sue those who accused me and other Linux advocates from USENET of being “pedophiles” Mar 22 21:16
schestowitz One of the guys there, a German, threatened to sue the bastards who ‘planted’ such libel about him. Mar 22 21:17
schestowitz Anti-war protestors labeled terrorists: http://www.actionpa.org/greenscare/ Mar 22 21:18
schestowitz There was another example last year. twitter wrote about it. Mar 22 21:18
schestowitz 10 Easy Ways to Be Labeled a “Terrorist” by the Government < http://planetsave.com/blog/2009/03/11/… > Mar 22 21:18
schestowitz http://www.icenews.is/index.php/20… Mar 22 21:19
schestowitz “When United Kingdom authorities used anti-terrorism laws against Iceland last October, a group called In Defence was formed. The group’s website received a great deal of international attention for its quirky and imaginative use of photographs to highlight the idea that calling Icelanders terrorists could hardly be a less accurate description.” Mar 22 21:19
schestowitz More ‘open source’ that’s not: http://lifehacker.com/5175045/op… http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/20… When hacker !=cracker and OSS was software, code… Mar 22 21:21
schestowitz Something called “the Open Source Software Institute” wrote this? http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/11257.html “Open Source Software Institute” ?? Mar 22 21:34
*schestowitz tells Tiemann Mar 22 21:36
schestowitz Now what it sounds like: Linux will never rule the desktop < http://www.handlewithlinux.com/linu… > Mar 22 22:01
_Hicham_2 this poster is just crazy Mar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2 he is missing a lot of points Mar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2 but it is fun though Mar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2 i like to read such funny articles Mar 22 22:04
schestowitz “I can’t wait for the year the desktop dies!” “The good thing is Microsoft will probably die with it!” Mar 22 22:07
schestowitz Document Freedom Day is coming… Kieler Document Freedom Day < http://www.premiumpresse.de/kieler… > Mar 22 22:09
trmanco https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuW… Mar 22 22:10
schestowitz Did you edit? Mar 22 22:16
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trmanco schestowitz, no Mar 22 22:19
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schestowitz Parsix GNU/Linux  2.0 is out: http://www.parsix.org/html/News… Mar 22 22:30
schestowitz Loads of new GNU/Linux releases in recent days:Scientific, Absolute, Denix, Incognito, LinuxKidX, Clonezilla, Igelle, K-DEMar, OpenGEU, Ututo, GParted, Parsix Mar 22 22:33
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schestowitz New funny bizniz from another Novell: Rick Novell < http://www.youtube.com/w… > Mar 22 22:47
schestowitz Seems like lies about RMS: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/…  Al Gore ‘invented’ the Internet… or…. he never said that, but people have spun that. Mar 22 22:50
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schestowitz Asa sheds light on Firefox security disinformation: pwn2own confusion < http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/ar… > Mar 22 23:05
schestowitz Making life hard(er): Fedora 10 goes Minstrel, wifi users rejoice! < http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2… > “I just got around to trying a 2.6.29 Fedora kernel the other day and noticed that it still wasn’t on, but John Linville was kind enough to fix that not even a day later, so you now have an option to get Minstrel on Fedora 10 without compiling your own kernel.” Mar 22 23:11
schestowitz amarsh04: from your home town: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.o… Mar 22 23:15
schestowitz Hmmmm… BN is doing almost 4GB today and I don’t know what’s causing it Mar 22 23:24
_Hicham_2 quiet room today Mar 22 23:46
_Hicham_2 nobody is talking Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2 since there is no big talkers Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2 like oiaohm Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2 and balzac Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2 where r they? Mar 22 23:47
schestowitz I don’t know. Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2 i like this room when it is full of discussion Mar 22 23:47
schestowitz Tomorrow it’ll be better Mar 22 23:47
schestowitz Sundays are typically calm. Mar 22 23:48
schestowitz I also have lots for BN tomorr Mar 22 23:48
schestowitz ow Mar 22 23:48
_Hicham_2 Roy : we must do some marketing for this channel and the website also Mar 22 23:48
schestowitz What do you have in mind? Mar 22 23:51
_Hicham_2 no idea for the moment Mar 22 23:51
_Hicham_2 but I think that this channel should be promoted more Mar 22 23:51
schestowitz You can promote ot recommend the site in places like OS News, LinuxToday, etc. Mar 22 23:51
schestowitz _Hicham_2: it’s read by some people who are not here. Mar 22 23:52
_Hicham_2 I know Mar 22 23:52
_Hicham_2 as soon as I finish my website, I will put a link to it Mar 22 23:52
schestowitz Thanks! Mar 22 23:53
schestowitz When BN was young Shane promoted it by adding links to Digg Mar 22 23:54
schestowitz That was 2006 Mar 22 23:54
_Hicham_2 but it is still hard to convince people that Novell is doing sthg bad to Linux Mar 22 23:55
_Hicham_2 it has done great job with Linux Mar 22 23:55
_Hicham_2 second in corporate kernel contributions after redhat Mar 22 23:55
schestowitz Some people don’t know about Microsoft, either Mar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2 helped a lot in Compiz by providing Xgl Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz We need to oraganise the information cohesiveky Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz For Novell too Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz In icluding its crimes Mar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2 that is what i said Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz Fraud and the like Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz Few people know about it Mar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2 organizing is the key Mar 22 23:56
schestowitz I make the material first Mar 22 23:57
schestowitz Collected from some old bits Mar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2 both in chronology and topics Mar 22 23:57
schestowitz The time will come when I can organise more Mar 22 23:57
schestowitz _Hicham_2: yes Mar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2 the site is becoming bigger and bigger Mar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2 u should start organizing it from now on Mar 22 23:58
_Hicham_2 the Novell-Microsoft Deal was just a sparkle Mar 22 23:58
_Hicham_2 now it is a website about the truth Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz Yes, I know Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz Some time this year Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz I meant about organising Mar 22 23:59
_Hicham_2 I know Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz Truth != consensus Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz It rarely is. Mar 22 23:59
schestowitz Also in politics Mar 22 23:59
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    The "Mafia" which took over the EPO (the EPO's own workers call it "Mafia") isn't getting its way with a proposal, so it's preventing the states from even voting on it!



  11. [Meme] Team UPC is Celebrating a Pyrrhic Victory

    Pyrrhic victory best describes what's happening at the moment (it’s a lobbying tactic, faking/staging things to help false prophecies be fulfilled, based on hopes and wishes alone), for faking something without bothering to explain the legal basis is going to lead to further escalations and complaints (already impending)



  12. Links 24/1/2022: Scribus 1.5.8 and LXLE Reviewed

    Links for the day



  13. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, January 23, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, January 23, 2022



  14. [Meme] Team UPC Congratulating Itself

    The barrage of fake news and misinformation about the UPC deliberately leaves out all the obvious and very important facts; even the EPO‘s António Campinos and Breton (Benoît Battistelli‘s buddy) participated in the lying



  15. Links 24/1/2022: pgBadger 11.7 Released, Catch-up With Patents

    Links for the day



  16. The Demonisation and Stereotyping of Coders Not Working for Big Corporations (or 'The System')

    The war on encrypted communication (or secure communications) carries on despite a lack of evidence that encryption stands in the way of crime investigations (most criminals use none of it)



  17. On the 'Peak Hacker' Series

    Hacker culture, unlike Ludditism, is ultimately a movement for justice, for equality, and for human rights through personal and collective emancipation; Dr. Farnell has done a good job explaining where we stand and his splendid series has come to a close



  18. Links 23/1/2022: First RC of Linux 5.17 and Sway 1.7 Released

    Links for the day



  19. Peak Code — Part III: After Code

    "Surveillance perimeters, smart TVs (Telescreens built to Orwell's original blueprint) watched over our living rooms. Mandatory smart everything kept us 'trustless'. Safe search, safe thoughts. We withdrew. Inside, we went quietly mad."



  20. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, January 22, 2022

    IRC logs for Saturday, January 22, 2022



  21. Links 23/1/2022: MongoDB 5.2, BuddyPress 10.0.0, and GNU Parallel 20220122

    Links for the day



  22. A Parade of Fake News About the UPC Does Not Change the General Consensus or the Simple Facts

    European Patents (EPs) from the EPO are granted in violation of the EPC; Courts are now targeted by António Campinos and the minions he associates with (mostly parasitic litigation firms and monopolists), for they want puppets for “judges” and for invalid patents to be magically rendered “valid” and “enforceable”



  23. Welcome to 2022: Intentional Lies Are 'Benefits' and 'Alternative Facts'

    A crooks-run EPO, together with the patent litigation cabal that we’ve dubbed ‘Team UPC’ (it has nothing to do with science or with innovation), is spreading tons of misinformation; the lies are designed to make the law-breaking seem OK, knowing that Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos are practically above the law, so perjury as well as gross violations of the EPC and constitutions won’t scare them (prosecution as deterrence just isn’t there, which is another inherent problem with the UPC)



  24. From Software Eating the World to the Pentagon Eating All the Software

    “Software is eating the world,” according to Marc Andreessen (co-founder of Netscape), but the Empire Strikes Back (not the movie, the actual empire) by hijacking all code by proxy, via Microsoft, just as it grabbed a lot of the world’s communications via Skype, bypassing the world's many national telecoms; coders need to fight back rather than participate in racist (imperial) shams such as GitHub



  25. Links 22/1/2022: Skrooge 2.27.0 and Ray-Tracing Stuff

    Links for the day



  26. IRC Proceedings: Friday, January 21, 2022

    IRC logs for Friday, January 21, 2022



  27. Peak Code — Part II: Lost Source

    "Debian and Mozilla played along. They were made “Yeoman Freeholders” in return for rewriting their charters to “work closely with the new Ministry in the interests of all stakeholders” – or some-such vacuous spout… because no one remembers… after that it started."



  28. Links 22/1/2022: Ubuntu MATE 21.10 for GPD Pocket 3, MINISFORUM Preloads GNU/Linux

    Links for the day



  29. Computer Users Should be Operators, But Instead They're Being Operated by Vendors and Governments

    Computers have been turned into hostile black boxes (unlike Blackbox) that distrust the person who purchased them; moreover, from a legislative point of view, encryption (i.e. computer security) is perceived and treated by governments like a threat instead of something imperative — a necessity for society’s empowerment (privacy is about control and people in positions of unjust power want total and complete control)



  30. Peak Code — Part I: Before the Wars

    Article/series by Dr. Andy Farnell: "in the period between 1960 and 2060 people had mistaken what they called "The Internet" for a communications system, when it had in fact been an Ideal and a Battleground all along - the site of the 100 years info-war."


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