04.30.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 29th, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| DaemonFC | it’s pretty sad that anyone would pay to get Windows 7 | Apr 29 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | It has just occured to me | Apr 29 00:01 |
| schestowitz | LF welcomes Oracle’s acquisition | Apr 29 00:01 |
| schestowitz | But wait | Apr 29 00:01 |
| schestowitz | LF is funded by Oralce | Apr 29 00:02 |
| schestowitz | It’s like a bought opinion | Apr 29 00:02 |
| schestowitz | They can’t dislike it | Apr 29 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | Vista shares core OS binaries with Server 2008 so pretty much everything they backport to it is bound to wind up in Vista | Apr 29 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | even if they don’t advertise it | Apr 29 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Vista, Vista7 ~= CentOS, Red Hat | Apr 29 00:02 |
| schestowitz | ? | Apr 29 00:02 |
| schestowitz | +GUI packages | Apr 29 00:03 |
| schestowitz | CentOS with newer DE version  |
Apr 29 00:03 |
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| oiaohm | Ok so oin has gone for the safe path not use there patents break the MS ones with prior art. | Apr 29 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | AYe | Apr 29 00:20 |
| oiaohm | I have though about XP in windows 7. Since XP will now be part of Windows 7 does not not mean that it support has to run to the end of life of Windows 7? That is a question no one has asked yet. | Apr 29 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Supporting more OS’s increases MS costs. | Apr 29 00:22 |
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| Balrog | oiaohm: youre not the first to ask that question | Apr 29 00:34 |
| Balrog | it was on slashdot yesterday | Apr 29 00:34 |
| Balrog | http://tech.slashdot.org/article… | Apr 29 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | for whatever reason, Vuze freezes Vista | Apr 29 00:37 |
| oiaohm | That is making network work with duel OS. | Apr 29 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | I’m not the only one with the problem either | Apr 29 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Balrog: not if XP end of life has been extended. | Apr 29 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | XP end of life is 2014 | Apr 29 00:37 |
| oiaohm | If XP is embeded with Windows 7 | Apr 29 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Does that force support longer DaemonFC | Apr 29 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | no | Apr 29 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Apr 29 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | because they can say “We support it as a component of Windows 7″ | Apr 29 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | but not as its own OS | Apr 29 00:38 |
| schestowitz | What a mess | Apr 29 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Can you IMAGINE???? | Apr 29 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat 5 coming with Red Hat 9 | Apr 29 00:39 |
| Balrog | it’s obviously a mess | Apr 29 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Supporting the component still has most of the overhead as supporting it will a full OS. | Apr 29 00:39 |
| schestowitz | From the early part of the decade | Apr 29 00:39 |
| DaemonFC | no more so than supporting 8-9 versions/configurations of Internet Explorer | Apr 29 00:39 |
| Balrog | Classic mode in OS X wasn’t supported after 2002 … | Apr 29 00:39 |
| Balrog | and it worked until 2007 | Apr 29 00:39 |
| schestowitz | it’s funy that MS ignores Vista | Apr 29 00:40 |
| schestowitz | “Vista 7 can run XP” | Apr 29 00:40 |
| schestowitz | But.. can it ru Vista? | Apr 29 00:40 |
| schestowitz | MS: what’s Vista? | Apr 29 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Mojave? | Apr 29 00:40 |
| oiaohm | Apple from the get go said classic mode would stop. It was nothing more than a temp measure. Apple really did not have the huge stock pile of applications to get covererted. | Apr 29 00:42 |
| DaemonFC | The have to support IE 5.01 through 8 on Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP2, XP SP3, Windows Server 2003 x86 and x64, Windows XP X64 (x86, x86-64, and IA-64), Windows Vista RTM, SP1, and SP2 (x86 and x86-64), Windows Server 2008 (x86 and x86-64) and Windows 7 x86 and x86-64 | Apr 29 00:43 |
| DaemonFC |  |
Apr 29 00:43 |
| oiaohm | That comes with a price. | Apr 29 00:43 |
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| oiaohm | When you have to pay your developers nothing in supported platforms is free. | Apr 29 00:44 |
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| Balrog | apple also prepared developers for it | Apr 29 00:45 |
| Balrog | they released what would be the compatibility APIs in 98 (Carbon) | Apr 29 00:45 |
| oiaohm | MS problem is lot of developers are not leaving XP. | Apr 29 00:45 |
| Balrog | of course, they did change over time, but it wasn’t too hard to port. | Apr 29 00:46 |
| oiaohm | And are refusing to update products for Vista. | Apr 29 00:46 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: and that Win7 shares a lot of code with vista and XP | Apr 29 00:46 |
| oiaohm | If Windows 7 follows the same trend. | Apr 29 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Shares a lot code and being compadible are too different things. | Apr 29 00:46 |
| Balrog | and what was shared is totally unsupported and ‘frozen’ now | Apr 29 00:47 |
| oiaohm | http://test.winehq.org/data/2e117… Biggest bug bear is language support in Vista does not work the same. | Apr 29 00:48 |
| Balrog | OS X shares very little code with Classic | Apr 29 00:48 |
| Balrog | I mixed up those two lines … | Apr 29 00:48 |
| oiaohm | If you have multi language support in an application the platform might as well be as different as OS X and classic. | Apr 29 00:48 |
| oiaohm | The head ache is not much worse. | Apr 29 00:49 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: can you explain that ine? | Apr 29 00:49 |
| Balrog | line * | Apr 29 00:49 |
| oiaohm | locale to look up what country you are and get language matched text. | Apr 29 00:49 |
| Balrog | OS X does it in a simple way. there’s a application.app/Contents/Resources/<language>.lproj/<UI data> for each language | Apr 29 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Windows XP is different to Vista and up in locale. | Apr 29 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie language support. | Apr 29 00:50 |
| Balrog | thae package system is one part of OS X that I think really works well | Apr 29 00:50 |
| oiaohm | You might have binary compadiblity between XP and Vista but what is the point if you cannot display the right text to users. | Apr 29 00:51 |
| Balrog | (app pagkages, that is) | Apr 29 00:51 |
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| Balrog | oiaohm: yeah, I know .. that really sucks | Apr 29 00:51 |
| oiaohm | That kinda causes the developer rebellion. | Apr 29 00:51 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 29 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Apple avoided developer rebellion. | Apr 29 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Language support is one of the most complex things to do once. | Apr 29 00:52 |
| Balrog | though many developers were upset when Apple dropped carbon | Apr 29 00:52 |
| Balrog | yes, unfortunately  |
Apr 29 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Let alone being force to do twice. | Apr 29 00:53 |
| Balrog | heh yeah. | Apr 29 00:53 |
| oiaohm | OS change from classic to OS X is nothing compared to the head aches ms made for developer from XP to Vista. | Apr 29 00:53 |
| Balrog | does linux even do that right? | Apr 29 00:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux define right. | Apr 29 00:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel it self really knows nothing about it. | Apr 29 00:54 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: you’re saying that rewriting a platform from scratch is less headaches for developers than building more on an existing platform. | Apr 29 00:54 |
| Balrog | I meant for apps | Apr 29 00:54 |
| oiaohm | gnu gettext is cross platform. | Apr 29 00:55 |
| Balrog | on a Mac, if you switch the locale in System Preferences, all the apps that have that locale will switch too | Apr 29 00:55 |
| Balrog | I see. | Apr 29 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Lot of Windows developers are starting to use it with the cross over from XP to Vista too. | Apr 29 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Because they don’t trust MS. | Apr 29 00:55 |
| Balrog | it’s gpl or lgpl? | Apr 29 00:55 |
| oiaohm | lgpl | Apr 29 00:56 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 29 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel only knows utf8 | Apr 29 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Its not really in the language game. | Apr 29 00:57 |
| oiaohm | Same with every other Unix and Posix out there. | Apr 29 00:57 |
| oiaohm | Gnu provided the language solution and everyone else used it. | Apr 29 00:57 |
| oiaohm | Supprising very few applications are truly locked to Linux. | Apr 29 00:59 |
| oiaohm | If NT posix support worked over 95 percent applications on Linux would work on Windows without alteration. | Apr 29 01:01 |
| Balrog | there’s a reason why it doesn’t work | Apr 29 01:01 |
| DaemonFC | Windows has a POSIX subsystem | Apr 29 01:02 |
| Balrog | does it work right? | Apr 29 01:02 |
| DaemonFC | SUA | Apr 29 01:02 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, even includes GNU core utilities | Apr 29 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Not word worked. | Apr 29 01:02 |
| DaemonFC | and an X server | Apr 29 01:02 |
| oiaohm | not/note | Apr 29 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Filesystem does not act like a posix one should. | Apr 29 01:02 |
| oiaohm | And the list goes on. | Apr 29 01:03 |
| DaemonFC | basically with little more than a recompile, you can get POSIX apps to work on Windows in SUA | Apr 29 01:03 |
| oiaohm | There is more than that. | Apr 29 01:03 |
| DaemonFC | they added a lot of stuff to NTFS to support UNIX-like features | Apr 29 01:03 |
| DaemonFC | SUA can use that | Apr 29 01:03 |
| oiaohm | Like is the key word. | Apr 29 01:03 |
| oiaohm | It only like not a 100 percent match. | Apr 29 01:03 |
| oiaohm | You set particular bits on files and they disappear or cause other bits to be flaged on. That can cause lots of problems. | Apr 29 01:04 |
| DaemonFC | Cygwin is better for compatibility | Apr 29 01:04 |
| DaemonFC | but SUA has better performance | Apr 29 01:04 |
| oiaohm | SUA if things were done right it would be better on compatiblity than what Cygwin ever could me. | Apr 29 01:05 |
| oiaohm | me/be | Apr 29 01:05 |
| oiaohm | There is a big one that causes the problem and its filesystem level. Unix file system support file names having everything bar / and nul in file names. | Apr 29 01:06 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 29 01:07 |
| Balrog | OS X supports everything except : in filenames, so the vfs layer converts : into / and vice-versa | Apr 29 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Correct action for proper support in windows would basically require a more posix like filesystem. | Apr 29 01:08 |
| oiaohm | That works fine until you have applications using : in there filenames. posix applications work fine with it. | Apr 29 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Some native OS X applciations have some fun. | Apr 29 01:10 |
| oiaohm | But compared to the MS problem its nothing. | Apr 29 01:10 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: posix applications see : | Apr 29 01:11 |
| Balrog | non-posix apps see / | Apr 29 01:11 |
| Balrog | internally it’s stored as : , but that doesn’t matter too much | Apr 29 01:11 |
| oiaohm | Early OS X had a bug where the posix side could set “this:that” as a filename and it would kinda go in as a filename. | Apr 29 01:12 |
| Balrog | explain. | Apr 29 01:12 |
| oiaohm | They might have fixed that. | Apr 29 01:12 |
| Balrog | this:that is a valid posix filename in OS X | Apr 29 01:12 |
| Balrog | though non-posix apps will see it as this/that | Apr 29 01:13 |
| oiaohm | That was not happening at one point. | Apr 29 01:13 |
| oiaohm | So they fixed it. | Apr 29 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Thanks. | Apr 29 01:13 |
| Balrog | ew. well they fixed it | Apr 29 01:13 |
| Balrog | yeah, they had to do a lot to get UNIX 03 certified | Apr 29 01:13 |
| oiaohm | It was working fine from the OS X side. | Apr 29 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | easier to run CoLinux | Apr 29 01:14 |
| oiaohm | That is the point DaemonFC | Apr 29 01:14 |
| oiaohm | It should not be easier to run CoLinux is the support works. | Apr 29 01:15 |
| oiaohm | You would never do that on OS X. | Apr 29 01:15 |
| oiaohm | The support is there. | Apr 29 01:15 |
| Balrog | well at this point, ./configure, make, and make install works for 99% of unix apps | Apr 29 01:15 |
| Balrog | the other 1% are those that rely on stuff like linux kernel headers | Apr 29 01:15 |
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| oiaohm | Yep the small percent that is Linux dependant. | Apr 29 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Most of them have native replacements. | Apr 29 01:16 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 29 01:16 |
| Balrog | or standard UNIX implementations | Apr 29 01:16 |
| oiaohm | In truth there is almost nothing in the Linux platform that is Linux. other than the kernel and a few supporting tools. | Apr 29 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Linux gets dominate there will always been room for another OS to take it down. | Apr 29 01:17 |
| *schestowitz does links and watches videos. c/w: 22 Year CIA Analyst Fired 4 Refusing to Falsify Iran Intell < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhM… > | Apr 29 01:19 | |
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| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/ne… | Apr 29 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Very well deserved. You cannot disreguard take down notices and expect not to be classed as adieing and abetting the crime. | Apr 29 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Really Anti-virus compaines should sue them next to recover damages from there clients over infected torrents they refused take down notices on. | Apr 29 01:26 |
| oiaohm | The case that has go no press is that one of the other torrent trackers are in court to work out if there is a legal requirement to provide torrent filtering so blocked torrents cannot be put back up. | Apr 29 01:29 |
| oiaohm | There is going to be no jail time out of the other case. Other torrent trackers in that country have been obeying take down notices. | Apr 29 01:31 |
| oiaohm | To be truthful neither media company or the torrent tracker company are sure where the law should be with removal | Apr 29 01:32 |
| schestowitz | This guy’s show is decent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… | Apr 29 01:36 |
| oiaohm | The other case does truly effect google. | Apr 29 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Michael Moore giving it to CNN. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n… quality! | Apr 29 01:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trO… | Apr 29 01:59 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: the judge was biased | Apr 29 02:01 |
| Balrog | and paid off by the copyright organizations | Apr 29 02:01 |
| DaemonFC | heh “!akick add Flyfox Dein behavior ist nicht conducive to der desired environment. Please kommen back when du konnen act like das civilized person. Danke” | Apr 29 02:01 |
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| oiaohm | Balrog so it would be fine publishing a paper where you knowing allowed killers for higher to advertise? Its the same supporting law. | Apr 29 02:05 |
| Balrog | .?. | Apr 29 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Linking is not a defence. | Apr 29 02:06 |
| Balrog | it isn’t, but a biased judge won’t provide a fair trial | Apr 29 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Once you know crime is taking part you are required to take action that is the law. | Apr 29 02:07 |
| oiaohm | It not a case of the judge being bias. | Apr 29 02:07 |
| oiaohm | There legal arguements were crap. | Apr 29 02:07 |
| oiaohm | If you don’t legally agree with a take down notice you can legally fight it. | Apr 29 02:07 |
| oiaohm | They choose not to so they have to take what is coming to them. | Apr 29 02:08 |
| oiaohm | Or we open up a can of worms you cannot dream Balrog. | Apr 29 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | Me: now you know I wouldn’t approve of beating the shit out of an effigy of George W. Bush, that’s what M-80′s and anatomical correctness are for | Apr 29 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 29 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Lot of torrent trackers are not effected by TPB ruling. Since they have been obeying take down notices. | Apr 29 02:11 |
| schestowitz | links posted, gn | Apr 29 02:12 |
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| oiaohm | The other case that is under way to find out if torrent trackers should have torrent filtering or not is a more important case Balrog. | Apr 29 02:13 |
| oiaohm | That threating to be more harmful by far. | Apr 29 02:14 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: what about the private torrent trackers? | Apr 29 02:15 |
| Balrog | that require invites/registration | Apr 29 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Same rules basically. Problem is to get into a private torrent network is not hard. | Apr 29 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Most countries have the laws required to investage 1 of the members to get the access. | Apr 29 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Idea that anything on the internet cannot be access by investagors is crap. | Apr 29 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Australia here I can have your computer taken without charge and held for 5 years. You have to go to court to get it back and prove you were doing nothing illegal. So getting into a private torrent network is simple. | Apr 29 02:19 |
| amarsh04 | night schestowitz, thanks for the EDS link | Apr 29 02:19 |
| DaemonFC | here you have to have warrant or probable cause for them to enter or remove anything | Apr 29 02:19 |
| DaemonFC | probably cause would be like the neighbors heard shooting, or someone screaming | Apr 29 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Probalbe cause is fairly simple to make. | Apr 29 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | or it was obvoous you were running a meth lab | Apr 29 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | not always | Apr 29 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | it may or may not hold up in court | Apr 29 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | if it doesn’t, then the evidence is thrown out | Apr 29 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | it happens | Apr 29 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Good thing is a percent of those in the illegal networks are also in other illegal things. | Apr 29 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | no evidence=weak case that the state probably loses | Apr 29 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | and possibly personal consequences for the cops that took the stuff | Apr 29 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | so they tend to cover their ass | Apr 29 02:21 |
| oiaohm | So basically part of searching there computer for other evidence access to stuff turns up. | Apr 29 02:21 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem with these ideas of private trackers. | Apr 29 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | the thing to remember is the PLAIN SIGHT RULE | Apr 29 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | if a cop sees contraband or a crime, he never needs a warrant | Apr 29 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Apr 29 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | so like, if I have a bag of weed under my seat in the car, he needs a warrant or probable cause | Apr 29 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | but if it’s on the seat in plain view, he can help himself | Apr 29 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | and arrest me right there | Apr 29 02:23 |
| oiaohm | Some people are dumb enough to leave burnt copy of dvd on table. If cop asks were orginal is kinda stuffed when not having it. | Apr 29 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | heh, they don’t care | Apr 29 02:23 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the cop. | Apr 29 02:23 |
| oiaohm | And how bad they want the guy for something. | Apr 29 02:24 |
| oiaohm | This is the problem the more illegal people in the network the simpler it is to get into. | Apr 29 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not a crime to pirate software in every case | Apr 29 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | and never a crime to grab unlicensed music files or such | Apr 29 02:24 |
| oiaohm | It is enough to hold for questioning. | Apr 29 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | it’s almost always a civil matter | Apr 29 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | no it isn’t | Apr 29 02:25 |
| oiaohm | As I said it depends on how much the cops want the guy. | Apr 29 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Different laws. | Apr 29 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | they can only hold you for 24 hours and then they have to let y ou go if they can’t charge you | Apr 29 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | and you don’t even have to talk to them | Apr 29 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, you should NEVER talk to the police | Apr 29 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | not for any reason | Apr 29 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | unless your lawyer is there and has advised you on what to say | Apr 29 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | after they read you your rights, shut the hell up | Apr 29 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | and don’t say a word other than “I want to call my lawyer” | Apr 29 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Illegal coping here has a 10 000 dollar fine connected here. | Apr 29 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Police normally don’t bother about on people who are not normally crims. | Apr 29 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | the police are trained on how to soften you up and makje you nervous enough to start volunteering info | Apr 29 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | changing your story | Apr 29 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | etc. | Apr 29 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | better to just use your 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself | Apr 29 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | because everything you tell them becomes evidence against you in court | Apr 29 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | you have the right to make the state prove the charge at every step of the way | Apr 29 02:29 |
| oiaohm | Australia we don’t have that protection. 5th amendment does not exist. Forgetfulness gets used here a lot. | Apr 29 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | they are under the burden to prove that you did what you were charged with, your motivation, aggravating factors | Apr 29 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | you name it | Apr 29 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | even if they find you guilty you could make the punishment more harsh | Apr 29 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Common mistake USA guys make here is cliaming the 5th. | Apr 29 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Here you claim you cannot remember. Not the 5th. | Apr 29 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | I’d demad to contact the US embassy | Apr 29 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Depends who is holding you. | Apr 29 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Asio does not have to turn you over to the US embassy for 7 days. | Apr 29 02:31 |
| DaemonFC | no, I am a citizen of the United States and by treaty I have the right to contact officials of my government | Apr 29 02:31 |
| oiaohm | But anything you do say to them in that time cannot be used in the court of law. | Apr 29 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Does not apply to asio. DaemonFC | Apr 29 02:32 |
| DaemonFC | they can’t make me talk | Apr 29 02:32 |
| DaemonFC | what can they do, torture me? | Apr 29 02:32 |
| DaemonFC | I’m pretty sure that would cause an incident | Apr 29 02:33 |
| oiaohm | http://www.asio.gov.au/ << Think CIA. | Apr 29 02:33 |
| DaemonFC | please, they’re probably renting satellite time from us | Apr 29 02:34 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 29 02:34 |
| oiaohm | asio also is nasty you legally cannot tell anyone what happen in those 7 days either. | Apr 29 02:34 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, try me | Apr 29 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Basically for 7 days you don’t exist. | Apr 29 02:35 |
| oiaohm | With court orders they can do it for a unlimtied ammount of time. | Apr 29 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Not something to mess with. | Apr 29 02:36 |
| oiaohm | One case here were it pays to talk. | Apr 29 02:36 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, or not step into a backwards country with medieval laws | Apr 29 02:36 |
| oiaohm | CIA does the same. | Apr 29 02:36 |
| DaemonFC | depends | Apr 29 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | where they took you from | Apr 29 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | and why | Apr 29 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Except they shove you on a aircraft and takes you to a country where USA laws don’t apply. | Apr 29 02:37 |
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| ushimitsudoki1 | Wow. You are a US citizen right? You know the US gov’t can declare you an “enemy combatant” with no proof and you are done right? | Apr 29 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | no, they can’t | Apr 29 02:37 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Yes they ca: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/a… | Apr 29 02:38 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | 4th Circuit Court approved. | Apr 29 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | the reason behind John Walker Lindh was that he was in AFGHANISTAN and engaged in illegal hostilities with US forces | Apr 29 02:38 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | They have done it at least twice to US citizens | Apr 29 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | buig difference | Apr 29 02:38 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | “A federal appeals court yesterday backed the president’s power to indefinitely detain a U.S. citizen captured on U.S. soil without any criminal charges, holding that such authority is vital during wartime to protect the nation from terrorist attacks.” | Apr 29 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | notice how they didn’t let him back onto US soil? | Apr 29 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | then he would have rights | Apr 29 02:38 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Are you reading the article? This is plain fact. | Apr 29 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | it’s also illegal | Apr 29 02:39 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The US gov’t can take a US Citizen on US Soil and lock them up, no criminal charges or trial needed. | Apr 29 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | a judge can’t just throw out parts of the constitution | Apr 29 02:39 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Have you been asleep the past 4 years? | Apr 29 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | that so plainly refute them | Apr 29 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | I’d say it’s more like paranoia | Apr 29 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | and that hasn’t happened | Apr 29 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | last time I checked, Afghanistan was not a state | Apr 29 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | but if you insist, let’s inform them of that | Apr 29 02:40 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It *has* happened, twice in 2005 .. ON US SOIL. not in afganistan | Apr 29 02:40 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Read the damn article. Educate yourself. | Apr 29 02:40 |
| oiaohm | The catch with asio 7 days is they can get extentions if you don’t talk. If you are helping there investagation they cannot hold you past 7 days. | Apr 29 02:40 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Americans may be held as ‘enemy combatants,’ appeals court rules – http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/0… | Apr 29 02:41 |
| oiaohm | It was designed to deal with crime groups who will not talk. | Apr 29 02:41 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | This is not a secret or paranoia or a consipircy or anything like that. | Apr 29 02:42 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s right there in any major news source you care to search on. | Apr 29 02:42 |
| oiaohm | All information got in those 7 days can be worked on but not used in a case against anyone. | Apr 29 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | looks limited and unconstitutionally vague in spots anyway | Apr 29 02:43 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Some are US Citizens captured overseas, and some are US Citizens captured on US Soil. The place of capture does not matter to the court’s decision. | Apr 29 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | and you do have the right to appeal it all the way to the supreme court | Apr 29 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | which does not usually side with such things | Apr 29 02:44 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | No you don’t. That’s the problem. An “enemy combatant” has no right to trial or appeal. That’s a large part of the issue. | Apr 29 02:44 |
| oiaohm | Usa people have a lot higher idea of there rights. Once on Australian soil Australian laws apply. Weather you like it or not. | Apr 29 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | yes they do | Apr 29 02:44 |
| oiaohm | Same with any other country. | Apr 29 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | supreme court ruled they do | Apr 29 02:44 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | That’s what “indefinitely detain” means. | Apr 29 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | yes, it doesn’t say you can’t appeal | Apr 29 02:44 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | No speedy trial. No right to trial by peers. None of that. | Apr 29 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | you have those rights | Apr 29 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | and that law is illegal | Apr 29 02:45 |
| oiaohm | Australia allows holding of people for 7 days without charge and indefinitely if they do not work with int gathering groups. | Apr 29 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | Bush just had a lot of willing accomplices | Apr 29 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | he didn’t make it legal, he jsut had a lot of accomplices | Apr 29 02:45 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | If you want to argue that such measures are needed, that’s one thing. However, you can’t just deny they exist and have been both used by the gov’t and approved by the courts. | Apr 29 02:45 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It is a simple matter of public record that they have been. | Apr 29 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | no, you’re not mentioning that a lot of that has been reversed | Apr 29 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | upon later appeal | Apr 29 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | as unconstitutional | Apr 29 02:46 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Cite please? | Apr 29 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.aclu.org/safefree/ns… | Apr 29 02:47 |
| oiaohm | So now CIA simple just takes the people out the country or gets them while they are over seas. DaemonFC | Apr 29 02:47 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Because here is Obama’s people saying the same thing in Feb 2009. “Solicitor general nominee says ‘enemy combatants’ can be held without trial” http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb… | Apr 29 02:47 |
| oiaohm | Being unconstitutional don’t stop the CIA from doing it. | Apr 29 02:47 |
| DaemonFC | http://thebivouac.wordpress.com/2008/06/… | Apr 29 02:47 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | DaemonFC: your site is the National Security Letter Gag, nothing to do with the enemy combatants issue. | Apr 29 02:48 |
| oiaohm | Just like the CIA getting caught importing drugs into the USA to fund there operations. | Apr 29 02:49 |
| oiaohm | Your intel group in the USA is rouge. | Apr 29 02:49 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20999950/ | Apr 29 02:50 |
| oiaohm | By the way lot of the sat images from USA sats australia gets are download into pinegap. Yes a joint USA Australian base. | Apr 29 02:50 |
| DaemonFC | “For over 200 years, this Nation has adhered to the rule of law — with unparalleled success. A shift to a Nation based on extra-constitutional authority is prohibited, as well as ill-advised,” she wrote. | Apr 29 02:50 |
| oiaohm | We don’t have to pay for them. | Apr 29 02:50 |
| oiaohm | Yep you paid to put the sats up there and we use them for free. | Apr 29 02:51 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | DaemonFC: You keep linking to small parts of the Patriot Act rule unconstituional, like the Gag Letters and the Search Warrants without cause. These have nothing to do with the enemy combatants issue | Apr 29 02:51 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | That is 3 links you have given that do not address the issue under discussion. | Apr 29 02:51 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/articles… | Apr 29 02:53 |
| DaemonFC | there’s an older one | Apr 29 02:53 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | We are talking about the fact that US Citizens can be declared “enemy combatants” and held for indefinite periods of time. They do not have a right to speedy trial or other constitutional rights. The courts have upheld this practice, and both the Bush and Obama administrations support it publivly | Apr 29 02:53 |
| oiaohm | patriot act covers the right of the goverment to block you from speaking. | Apr 29 02:53 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | DaemonFC: again that does not address the enemy combant practice. | Apr 29 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Not being held as an ememy combant. | Apr 29 02:54 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | There are a ton of things in the Patriot Act I think are unconstitutional, it is little surprise to see parts of it struck down | Apr 29 02:54 |
| oiaohm | USA laws with ememy combant are like our 7 days except you are allowed to talk to other people and what ever you say can be used against you. | Apr 29 02:54 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | But that does not address the practice of declaring US Citizens enemy combatants. | Apr 29 02:55 |
| oiaohm | So yes being held as a ememy combant in the USA you can ask for lawer but they can select the lawer. | Apr 29 02:55 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | For example, you are looking for something that has changed from: “Bill Lets U.S. Citizens Be Held as Enemy Combatants” : http://www.npr.org/templates/st… | Apr 29 02:56 |
| DaemonFC | the 107th and 108th congress were a bunch of far right wingnuts passing everything they could as quickly as they could | Apr 29 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | and letting the courts sort out hundreds of questionable laws later | Apr 29 02:58 |
| oiaohm | Notice something here. | Apr 29 02:58 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Sure sure, I agree, but that doesn’t change the fact that the power is out there. | Apr 29 02:58 |
| oiaohm | Australian Enemy Combatants get treated the same no matter there cit. | Apr 29 02:58 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | You can’t just deny it – people need to acknowledge it and work to have the powers removed if they feel strongly enough about it | Apr 29 02:59 |
| oiaohm | USA suxs. | Apr 29 02:59 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Sure, I think it is unconstiutional as seven hells and a goddamn abomination to the spirit of America, but I’m not a Senator, either | Apr 29 02:59 |
| oiaohm | There is really no need for a special law for cits over being a Enemy Combatant. | Apr 29 03:00 |
| oiaohm | Either you are one or you are not. | Apr 29 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | well, I think the Republicans have really fucked themselves over | Apr 29 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | cause only like 20% of Americans now identify with them | Apr 29 03:01 |
| oiaohm | Usa 20 percent of the popluation can be enought to win power. | Apr 29 03:02 |
| oiaohm | Dependign on voter turn out. | Apr 29 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | they’ll fade off into obscurity | Apr 29 03:04 |
| oiaohm | The USA idea that when you are a member of a party that you cannot choose to vote agaist that party is another stupid thing. | Apr 29 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | they’re probably going to lose a few more seats in 2010 | Apr 29 03:04 |
| oiaohm | 2010 is going to be a nasty year. | Apr 29 03:04 |
| oiaohm | Next round of house losses to the USA public should be in full swing by then. | Apr 29 03:07 |
| oiaohm | Maybe another round of bank bail outs. | Apr 29 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | well, if they remember who caused all of this there’s gonna be another fire sale on the Republicans | Apr 29 03:08 |
| oiaohm | Or current for not passing laws to stop it. | Apr 29 03:09 |
| oiaohm | There are laws that could be passed to disarm the next round. | Apr 29 03:09 |
| oiaohm | So far not passed yet. | Apr 29 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | well, it’s a landslide | Apr 29 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | there’s only so much that can be done to stop it til it settles | Apr 29 03:09 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot. | Apr 29 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | I think even if Obama does an excellent job, then we could still be shrinking next year | Apr 29 03:10 |
| oiaohm | Next one works on cheep interest to get you in then after time a major interest jump. | Apr 29 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | especially if the Republicans manage to slow him down | Apr 29 03:10 |
| oiaohm | Pass a law forbiding that from happening. | Apr 29 03:10 |
| oiaohm | And most of the secound wave disappears. | Apr 29 03:10 |
| oiaohm | It will be fully in Obama hands if it happens or not. | Apr 29 03:11 |
| oiaohm | So 2010 both major parties could be in the hated stack. | Apr 29 03:12 |
| oiaohm | Do you have a thrid party there by any chance that could take major advantage of this DaemonFC | Apr 29 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | doubt it | Apr 29 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | third parties in American politics only hurt their own cause | Apr 29 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | they siphon votes from the major party that is most like them | Apr 29 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | leading to a more favorible outcome to the major party that is least like them | Apr 29 03:15 |
| oiaohm | We have the greens here who when invents like this have happened have ended up with the blance of power. | Apr 29 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | the 3rd parties here tend to overwhelmingly hurt the Republicans | Apr 29 03:16 |
| oiaohm | So you don’t have a netural 3rd party. | Apr 29 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | sicne they tend to be far right fascists that gain maybe 1-2% of the vote | Apr 29 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | basically you’ve got the far right fascists like the Prohibition, Nazi, and “Constitution” parties | Apr 29 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | that are too radical even for the Republicans | Apr 29 03:17 |
| oiaohm | Great | Apr 29 03:17 |
| oiaohm | You guys are stuffed in the party department. | Apr 29 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | you have the Libertarians which siphon some of the moderate Republicans | Apr 29 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | and to the far left you have the Socialists and the Greens | Apr 29 03:18 |
| oiaohm | Greens here are more netural. | Apr 29 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | but I’d say that 80% or more of the third party votes go to the extreme far right | Apr 29 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | so I’m glad to have them | Apr 29 03:18 |
| oiaohm | With a bias to doing waht is good for the envoroment. | Apr 29 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | because otherwise there’s be mroe Republicans in office | Apr 29 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | that DID change the Alaska senate race you know? | Apr 29 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | the number of votes gained by the “Constitution” nutjobs could have won the seat for the Republicans had they gone there | Apr 29 03:19 |
| oiaohm | Most insane party we have here is the party party. Yes only thing on there ticket it to throw a party. | Apr 29 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | but since the extreme rightwingers got those votes, the Democrat won | Apr 29 03:20 |
| oiaohm | So far never won a seat. | Apr 29 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | We have the Libertarians, that’s the largest third party | Apr 29 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | I don’t think they hold any state or federal offices | Apr 29 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | but they usually get a good 5-10% of the vote | Apr 29 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | depending on the factors | Apr 29 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | I mainly use them as a protest vote if there’s no Democrat on that part of the ballot | Apr 29 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 29 03:21 |
| oiaohm | libertarians might be like our greens. | Apr 29 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | no | Apr 29 03:22 |
| oiaohm | Do the have the policy of looking at stuff fairly. | Apr 29 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | Libertarians want all government abolished as far as possible | Apr 29 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | all regulations dropped as much as they can be | Apr 29 03:23 |
| oiaohm | Ok that created this mess. | Apr 29 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | no it didn’t | Apr 29 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | but it would create a different mess at least  |
Apr 29 03:23 |
| oiaohm | Removing regulations caused the mess. | Apr 29 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Going a little too far. | Apr 29 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | What created the mess the US is in now is Neoconservatism | Apr 29 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | not the same thing as Libertarianism | Apr 29 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Results could be close to the same. | Apr 29 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Yes over regulation is a problem. | Apr 29 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | deeply religious, police state types who are also in the back pocket of corporate lobbyists | Apr 29 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | neocons | Apr 29 03:24 |
| oiaohm | But too little is just a big problem. | Apr 29 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | George Bush is basically their poster child | Apr 29 03:25 |
| oiaohm | I am worried more about action. | Apr 29 03:25 |
| oiaohm | Not the funding and bribes behind them. | Apr 29 03:25 |
| oiaohm | Some countries have run quite well with the goverment bribed to hell. | Apr 29 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | I’d prefer to see Democrats, then Greens, then Libertarians | Apr 29 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | I would never vote for a Republican | Apr 29 03:26 |
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| oiaohm | The important thing is the bribes causing the right actions. | Apr 29 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | the Democrats usually take part of the Green/Libertarian platform and incorporate that | Apr 29 03:27 |
| oiaohm | Our democarts are almost dead. | Apr 29 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | I don’t think good government is possible | Apr 29 03:27 |
| Omar87 | Haha, Craig Mundie is a very weird guy, is he naive? Or is he playing naive? | Apr 29 03:27 |
| dsmith_ | hello | Apr 29 03:28 |
| dsmith_ | funny how windows is suppose to be so great, but the server has so many malware scanners insatlled on it now | Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | but if we could get a couple more parties in their fighting each other, it would get better | Apr 29 03:28 |
| dsmith_ | lol | Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | I think so anyway | Apr 29 03:28 |
| Omar87 | Omar87: hi guys, btw. | Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | Craig Mundie is the Minister of Disinformation I think | Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | *there | Apr 29 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationmi… | Apr 29 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 29 03:29 |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC: Damn it! What a brainwasher! | Apr 29 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | there’s Iraqi uniforms on ebay | Apr 29 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 29 03:30 |
| dsmith_ | no way | Apr 29 03:30 |
| dsmith_ | with or without blood | Apr 29 03:30 |
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| DaemonFC | We should be trying to get Puerto Rico into the union while Republican opposition is minimal | Apr 29 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | guaranteed to be 2 senators, 6 congressmen, and another 11 electoral votes in the bag for Democrats | Apr 29 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 29 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | if they could do that and get Washington DC representation in the House of Representatives, it would be the last nail in the coffin of the Republicans | Apr 29 03:37 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, how about an article covering http://www.rpath.org/, http://hacktolive.org/wiki/Reconstructor, and http://hacktolive.org/wiki/Remastersys | Apr 29 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/… | Apr 29 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | uh huh | Apr 29 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | my opinion on the guy just went down about 12 notches | Apr 29 04:45 |
| the_mad_hatter | The same forces that drove the development of Linux have driven the development of TPB. | Apr 29 04:54 |
| the_mad_hatter | And that has got to scare the living daylights out of Microsoft and the Mafia. | Apr 29 04:55 |
| oiaohm_ | Who the heck is claiming that stupidity. | Apr 29 05:00 |
| the_mad_hatter | I am. | Apr 29 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | Same forces that drove the development of Linux | Apr 29 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | Drives creative commons. | Apr 29 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | Developers of Linux respect copyright. | Apr 29 05:01 |
| oiaohm_ | The ugler side of the computer world drives TPB. Illegal aquired software undermines objectives of open source. | Apr 29 05:02 |
| the_mad_hatter | Nope. TPB development was driven by the human need to share. | Apr 29 05:04 |
| oiaohm_ | Really the ugler side it a hinderance to Linux. | Apr 29 05:04 |
| oiaohm_ | Share what the_mad_hatter. | Apr 29 05:04 |
| the_mad_hatter | It’s no hindrance to Linux at all. | Apr 29 05:04 |
| oiaohm_ | It is a hindrance. | Apr 29 05:05 |
| the_mad_hatter | Share life. Share favorite songs. Why do you think Facebook is so popular? Or Wikipedia? | Apr 29 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Crack downs on illegal software have seen people put development time into Linux. | Apr 29 05:05 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I agree with oiaohm_, piracy of Windows has been recognized even within Microsoft as an effective process for getting people involved with the microsoft way as early as possible. It is this aspect of software piracy that is a hinderance to Linux | Apr 29 05:06 |
| the_mad_hatter | While that is true, we will win, because we are better. | Apr 29 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | There are creative commons music that no is listerning. | Apr 29 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | Some of it could be great. | Apr 29 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | Why no one listerning to because they get illegal stuff for free. | Apr 29 05:06 |
| the_mad_hatter | Some of it is great. But remember Sturgeon’s Law. | Apr 29 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | Instead of developing a culture like the open source world where people are truly sharing and developing. | Apr 29 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | TPB mostly generates large numbers of takers. | Apr 29 05:07 |
| the_mad_hatter | 99% of everything is shit. | Apr 29 05:07 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | If Photoshop was not so easily pirated, and was full price to any who wanted to use it, I dare say it would be a bit less popular. | Apr 29 05:07 |
| oiaohm_ | Sharing is only sharing when you can share improvements back. | Apr 29 05:08 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The same argument applies to a lot of large, expensive and “industry standard” software packages | Apr 29 05:08 |
| the_mad_hatter | Don’t blame piracy. Instead tell everyone how good “The Gimp” is. | Apr 29 05:08 |
| oiaohm_ | No | Apr 29 05:08 |
| the_mad_hatter | Accentuate the positve. | Apr 29 05:08 |
| the_mad_hatter | positive. | Apr 29 05:08 |
| oiaohm_ | If people had no other option bar to use Gimp and others like it. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | Improvements would have to be done. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s not so much “blaming” piracy as recognizing it exists as a significant factor. It’s one of many issues that FLOSS has to recognize and address | Apr 29 05:09 |
| the_mad_hatter | That’s a negative. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | That is the under mining. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s not the sole reason – there is rarely a *sole* reason. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| the_mad_hatter | No, Free Software does not have to address it. Free Software has to advocate Free Software. | Apr 29 05:09 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Because there is only “one true way” to promote FLOSS? | Apr 29 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | Open source is based on its mempers scractching iches. | Apr 29 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | members | Apr 29 05:10 |
| the_mad_hatter | I’m a salesman. Been one for a long time. You win more sales by being positive, than by whining about unfair competition. | Apr 29 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | Without people using having annoyances stuff does not improve. | Apr 29 05:10 |
| the_mad_hatter | I don’t do Open Source. I do Free Software. | Apr 29 05:11 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s not whining. You are mischaracterizing the position. Recognizing that piracy has a negative impact on FLOSS adoption on many cases is a simple acknowledgement of reality, and one factor that might be addressed in effective promotion. | Apr 29 05:11 |
| oiaohm_ | People here you said TPB have same drive for development. | Apr 29 05:11 |
| oiaohm_ | As Linux | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Its not. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | In that case get your ass out there, with a positive message about why people should use Free Software. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux is based on the idea of problem fix. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | Yes it is. It’s about sharing. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux is not about sharing. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Never has been. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | GPL. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | It’s doesn’t mean breaking down and going emo and crying over how unfair life is, but for example, illustrating that copyright and proper software licensing takes an enourmous amout of effort and “hidden costs” to companies might be an effective message to some organizations | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | Linus had a iche wanting a posix based os. | Apr 29 05:12 |
| oiaohm_ | So did a lot of other people. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| the_mad_hatter | And the positive message is? | Apr 29 05:13 |
| oiaohm_ | From there they all worked on it and developed it. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| the_mad_hatter | GPL. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| oiaohm_ | They are not what you call taking. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| oiaohm_ | They are taking and improving. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The positive message is that FLOSS offers an alternative free of worries about infringment and licensing violations. That is an effective point. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| oiaohm_ | Evolution. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| the_mad_hatter | No, they are sharing. GPL. | Apr 29 05:13 |
| oiaohm_ | GPL gives the right to alter the_mad_hatter | Apr 29 05:14 |
| oiaohm_ | GPL is about allowing code Evolution. | Apr 29 05:14 |
| oiaohm_ | Not just sharing. | Apr 29 05:14 |
| the_mad_hatter | No, the positive message about Free Software is lower costs, reliability, ease of migration, and easy customization. | Apr 29 05:14 |
| oiaohm_ | How much shared on TPB is changing from its past form. | Apr 29 05:14 |
| oiaohm_ | How much in TPB is being customised. | Apr 29 05:15 |
| the_mad_hatter | GPL is about sharing. I make a change that I distribute, I have to share it back. | Apr 29 05:15 |
