Gemini version available ♊︎

Sleeping with Mono

Posted in Apple, GNU/Linux, Microsoft, Mono, Novell at 11:37 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Summary: Assorted items about Mono and Moonlight

NOVELL is promoting Microsoft through GNU/Linux (and Microsoft on Apple devices [1, 2]). The obsession with Mono and Moonlight is about making Microsoft (not necessarily the same as Windows) stronger and this new article from Dr. Dobbs shows what Novell does for proprietary software, leading to unrest. More in IRC (starts here):

Chips_B_Malroy you might enjoy this thread:  http://mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24925 Feb 03 22:31
Chips_B_Malroy Titled:  Resolved – need moonlight in 8.5 Feb 03 22:32
phIRCe-BNc Title: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KB Feb 03 22:33
Chips_B_Malroy comment number 10 says it all, as to why Moonlight in addition to the patents/legal/etc problems, is just no good Feb 03 22:33
Chips_B_Malroy and why M$ with Miguel’s (Novell) help, makes mono-moonlight a 2nd rate platform Feb 03 22:34
Chips_B_Malroy or should I say, a M$ trojan Feb 03 22:34
balzac Well, I suppose I don’t need to worry about brand loyalty with asus Feb 03 22:36
balzac do we have any favored PC manufacturer’s left? Feb 03 22:36
balzac who sells notebooks without an OS? Feb 03 22:36
Chips_B_Malroy MS and Miguel know full well that mono-moonlight is incapable of playing Silverlight content from Netflix because of the ms drm there Feb 03 22:36
balzac I may go for a lenovo for my next notebook Feb 03 22:36
oiaohm Intel proved it possible to force MS to give over silverlight for Linux. Feb 03 22:36
oiaohm So really why bother with moonlight Feb 03 22:37
Chips_B_Malroy oiaohm> yes, right as almost always Feb 03 22:37
oiaohm I am supprised people are not more up in arms that intel can get real silverlight for Linux yet most others cannot. Feb 03 22:38
Chips_B_Malroy <oiaohm> So really why bother with moonlight?”   For me, never, I was just passing on the post, as I thought it might be of interest here.  The point I like to make is how useless moonlight is Feb 03 22:38
Chips_B_Malroy Oiaohm> if Intel can get it, at some point someone well get the flash dump of it, and hack it.  And it will end up in a repo in some part of the world they cannot sue. Feb 03 22:39
oiaohm If MS is truly wanting to make it a platform should they not be releasing it to all directly? Feb 03 22:40
oiaohm Ie not giving different parties specal treatment. Feb 03 22:40
Chips_B_Malroy If moonlight is useless, and it is, then Mono is too.  As Moonlight is supposedly the killer app. Feb 03 22:40
oiaohm Problem for Moonlight and Flash is more and more html5 is picking up what they are aimed at doing. Feb 03 22:41
Chips_B_Malroy Oiaohm> the point that is made here that MS does not release Silverlight for Linux directly because they want Mono-Moonlight so as to be substandard. Feb 03 22:41
Chips_B_Malroy which is a true statement Feb 03 22:42
oiaohm For what reason. Feb 03 22:42
oiaohm Either to destory Linux or to be able to destory Novell after it built the market.  Or both Feb 03 22:42
Chips_B_Malroy So Windows will do everything silverlight that Linux-mono-moonlight cannot, like play netflix Feb 03 22:42
oiaohm I more take the line of both. Feb 03 22:43
Chips_B_Malroy yes, both probably Feb 03 22:43
oiaohm I know of very few companies that have made deals with MS and walked away in good condition. Feb 03 22:43
Chips_B_Malroy but the fact that moonlight cannot, and most likely never will be able to legally play the MS DRM licencing in the Netflix Silverlight videos, means something.  And it should be taken to the front of the debate. Feb 03 22:44
Chips_B_Malroy Moonlight is useless Feb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroy therefore mono is too Feb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroy the one thing users want it to do it cannot Feb 03 22:45
oiaohm If you really understand how the Linux kernel works you can see major problems with all JIT language designs. Feb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroy which is beyond me most likely Feb 03 22:46
oiaohm People forget that Linux kernel does GC on a process by process base. Feb 03 22:46
oiaohm So all the talk about GC giving safety is mostly crap. Feb 03 22:47
oiaohm Ie since mono containes a GC it safe…. Feb 03 22:47
oiaohm Multi process application that in a lot of cases runs faster than mono is also as safe. Feb 03 22:47
Chips_B_Malroy Well, I am not a fan of Netflix or Blockbuster.   Feb 03 22:47
Chips_B_Malroy But I expect that Silverlight for Linux on Intel will get pawned. Feb 03 22:48
Chips_B_Malroy Because MS has basically paid off both Netflix and Blockbuster to use their patented Silverlight tech Feb 03 22:49
Chips_B_Malroy Will it be legal?  no Feb 03 22:51
Chips_B_Malroy maybe in some parts of the world, maybe Feb 03 22:51
oiaohm Really hope MS does. Feb 03 22:52
oiaohm Intel is not past sueing MS ass off. Feb 03 22:52
Chips_B_Malroy myself I don’t want Silverlight Feb 03 22:52
oiaohm Neither do I Feb 03 22:52
oiaohm But I would like an another interesting court case against MS. Feb 03 22:53
Chips_B_Malroy I can find what I want with other means Feb 03 22:53
Chips_B_Malroy But I do believe that M$ is trying to drive demand for Silverlight with Netflix and Blockbuster.  Using both of these two, is creating another monopoly in the USA, as they are the biggest two in this market for most users here. Feb 03 22:54
Chips_B_Malroy Blockbuster, correction, I know it uses Net and MS DRM, but it never says where I can see that it uses Silverlight, but I believe it does Feb 03 22:55
*FurnaceBoy (~FurnaceBo@BAS1-TORONTO10-1279748207.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 03 22:56
Chips_B_Malroy comment number #10 from the link:  “No drm so it doesn’t work on something you would want it for like netflix.” Feb 03 22:57
schestowitz Thanks Feb 03 22:57
schestowitz I’ll mentioned this tomorrow Feb 03 22:57
schestowitz There’s related news…. Feb 03 22:58
Chips_B_Malroy The dirty little secret of Mono-Moonlight is, its never going do what you want it to really do. Feb 03 22:58
schestowitz Linux Tablet from Google Coming BTW ……. \0/ Feb 03 22:58
schestowitz Microsoft sill in the pits http://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,1000001161,40018130-39001096c-20106869o,00.htm Feb 03 22:58
phIRCe-BNc Title: How many more times? – Conficker worm disrupts Manchester police systems – Talkback at ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 86.38 KB Feb 03 22:58
FurnaceBoy Chips_B_Malroy: one of the dirty secrets :) Feb 03 22:58
FurnaceBoy schestowitz: wow. when will they wake up. :-( Feb 03 22:58
schestowitz Chips_B_Malroy: but Microsoft can tell regulators it plays “nice” with Linux Feb 03 22:58
schestowitz That’s what the deal with Novell was partly about Feb 03 22:58
Chips_B_Malroy FurnaceBoy> yes, hehe Feb 03 22:59
schestowitz Pretence of support and fair play… with SOFTWARE patents Feb 03 22:59
FurnaceBoy schestowitz: did you see Bugliosi on YouTube calling for Bush prosecution? Feb 03 22:59
Chips_B_Malroy So, MS needs to come even more clean than just its community promise not to sue Linux.  It needs to also open source its DRM, if users want to play Netflix Silverlight. Feb 03 23:00
*gargoyle-grin has quit (Quit: Leaving.) Feb 03 23:00
oiaohm Chips_B_Malroy: the community promise is time limited Feb 03 23:00
MinceR actually they need to start providing proper patent licenses Feb 03 23:00
oiaohm Or is complete crap. Chips_B_Malroy Feb 03 23:01
oiaohm Ie only covering programmers who don’t get paid. Feb 03 23:01
MinceR ones that apply to everyone, are free of charge, and don’t have a time limit Feb 03 23:01
Chips_B_Malroy you right on both oiaohm Feb 03 23:01
MinceR to the entirety of .net/mono Feb 03 23:01
oiaohm that is a major problem in the Linux world on adverage over 75 percent of programers are paid to build stuff. Feb 03 23:01
MinceR until they do that, they’re only screwing around, looking for gullible marks they can screw with Feb 03 23:01
oiaohm If they want to keep the DRM closed source that is there business. Feb 03 23:02
oiaohm But not being prepared to say we will not attack open source is not good. Feb 03 23:03
Chips_B_Malroy they are trying to put out a product (moonlight) that is defective by design.  Because Miguel and MS already know that the quality Silverlight videos from Netflix contain MS DRM that Moonlight cannot legally play. Feb 03 23:03

Microsoft MVP Miguel de Icaza is referenced with glee by the ‘Microsoft press’, which was promoting Silver Lie on Monday:

The response in the developer community to the Silverlight release has been almost universally positive. Miguel de Icaza, vice president of developer platforms at Novell and head of the open source Mono Project, called Silverlight 4 “a case of doing the right thing for users and developers” in a blog post soon after the release. “There are many other great features in Silverlight 4, but none as important as Silverlight becoming a universal runtime for the CLR. This is a revolution,” de Icaza wrote.

Why does he not simply join Microsoft? He already works for them part time and the creature he created (Mono) is entering the GNU/Linux desktop, ushered by articles like this new one from ECT. People don’t even realise that they are using Mono, so it’s like a diseases that’s growing quietly inside the body of the Free destkop. It is still being promoted by Ryan Paul, who is also promoting an FSF-hostile article from his new colleague, Zonker. This is not good.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.


  1. ChipsAhoy said,

    February 5, 2010 at 8:44 am


    Chips_B_Malroy and DaemonFC, I hope you guys realise that your Sansa music player devices are running Mono.

    Next time, you guys might want to do a little more research. You guys are looking a might bit foolish right now.

    your_friend Reply:

    Thanks for the news. If true, this exactly why mono is dangerous – it looks like it works and you can be suckered into it without knowing. Working around .NET all day, I can tell you that NET fails like the London Stock Exchange. If Mono works at all it is a tribute to the power of free software to make even the worst of software work. Other examples of free software making garbage look good are Samba and the Linux kernel’s handling of ACPI, but mono is a special trap. Just as soon as Microsoft has extorted or bribed enough fools into using .NET, they will pull the patent rug out just as they have with FAT and other bogus patents. That Mono works at all is bad news for software freedom. If Mono succeeds even in a “good enough” way, Microsoft sticks around that much longer and does that much more damage to real standards and software freedom. It is a critical part of their decade old effort to destroy free software and should be avoided in all forms. I will avoid this device and others running that kind of non free software, even if it’s based on gnu/linux.

    According to this excellent analysis by Groklaw, NET and “interoperability” has been an anti-linux trap all along, invented to trick Intel into abandoning GNU/Linux. Mono is an important component of Microsoft’s 2002 plan to get people to stick with Windows as a development environment, but it is a failing effort. “Interoperability” is a poor substitute for freedom and those who persue it will always be dragged around by the nose and their software experience will be something like what Windows has always provided. Intel ignored Microsoft and so do other sensible people. This letter from Microsoft clearly shows what their plans were all along and Mono advocates are clearly dupes who listened to Microsoft’s “white picket fence” talk only to be screwed over. Microsoft basically admits that GNU/Linux was technically better the whole time.

    Eight years after Microsoft promissed Intel interoperability, the Windows platform is still a hostile piece of work. XP, for example, still treats all other file exchange protocols as second class citizens. Want to make a link to a particular document on an ftp server? Too bad. Want to use sftp? Go buy a client. X11? Same thing and Vista breaks the popular clients. Play ogg vorbis or theora? Ha ha, right. CSS, SVG, ODF and on and on it goes. I’m not sure what people get in return for opting to use such a poorly performing, hostile OS.

    All free software work involving Microsoft should be abandoned. It never ceases to amaze me that people still uses their second rate platform as a desktop but this is a disease that feeds itself. Intel engineers, “raised on Unix/Linux” knew better. People who use Windows daily don’t and can’t. When you use non free software to solve your problems, you remain ignorant of what free software can do for you. When all you know is Windows, you will teach your friends and clients to solve their problems with awful kludges that work on Windows. The more free software that’s ported to Windows, the less incentive these people feel about moving and the more they feel “sensible” people endorse their poor choice of platform.

DecorWhat Else is New

  1. Links 1/12/2021: Tux Paint 0.9.27 and WordPress 5.9 Beta

    Links for the day

  2. [Meme] EPO Administrative Council Believing EPO-Bribed 'Media' (IAM Still Shilling and Lying for Cash)

    IAM continues to do what brings money from EPO management and Team UPC, never mind if it is being disputed by the patent examiners themselves

  3. The EPO's Mythical “Gap” Has Been Found and It's Bonuses for People Who Use Pure Fiction to Steal From Patent Examiners

    The phony president who has the audacity to claim there's a budget gap is issuing millions of euros for his enablers to enjoy; weeks ahead of the next meeting of national delegates the Central Staff Committee (CSC) tells them: "Events show that the delegations’ concerns about functional allowances have materialised. The lack of transparency and inflation of the budget envelope gives rise to the suspicion that high management is pursuing a policy of self-service at the expense of EPO staff, which is difficult to reconcile with the Office’s claimed cost-saving policy, and to the detriment of the whole Organisation."

  4. Video: Making the Internet a Better Place for People, Not Megacorporations

    Following that earlier list of suggested improvements for a freedom-respecting Internet, here's a video and outline

  5. Links 30/11/2021: KDE Plasma 5.23.4, 4MLinux 38.0, Long GitHub Downtime, and Microsoft's CEO Selling Away Shares

    Links for the day

  6. A Concise Manifesto For Freedom-Respecting Internet

    An informal list of considerations to make when reshaping the Internet to better serve people, not a few corporations that are mostly military contractors subsidised by the American taxpayers

  7. Freenode.net Becomes a 'Reddit Clone' and Freenode IRC is Back to Old Configurations After Flushing Down Decades' Worth of User/Channel Data and Locking/Shutting Out Longtime Users

    Freenode is having another go; after “chits” and “jobs” (among many other ideas) have clearly failed, and following the change of daemon (resulting in massive loss of data and even security issues associated with impersonation) as well as pointless rebrand as “Joseon”, the domain Freenode.net becomes something completely different and the IRC network reopens to all

  8. Jack Dorsey's Decision is a Wake-up Call: Social Control Media is Just a Toxic Bubble

    The state of the World Wide Web (reliability, preservation, accessibility, compatibility etc.) was worsened a lot more than a decade ago; with social control media that’s nowadays just a pile of JavaScript programs we’re basically seeing the Web gradually turning into another Adobe Flash (but this time they tell us it’s a “standard”), exacerbating an already-oversized ‘bubble economy’ where companies operate at a loss while claiming to be worth hundreds of billions (USD) and generally serve imperialistic objectives by means of manipulation like surveillance, selective curation, and censorship

  9. IRC Proceedings: Monday, November 29, 2021

    IRC logs for Monday, November 29, 2021

  10. Links 29/11/2021: NuTyX 21.10.5 and CrossOver 21.1.0

    Links for the day

  11. This Apt Has Super Dumbass Powers. Linus Sebastian and Pop_OS!

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission

  12. [Meme] Trying to Appease Provocateurs and Borderline Trolls

    GNU/Linux isn’t just a clone of Microsoft Windows and it oughtn’t be a clone of Microsoft Windows, either; some people set themselves up for failure, maybe by intention

  13. Centralised Git Hosting Has a Business Model Which is Hostile Towards Developers' Interests (in Microsoft's Case, It's an Attack on Reciprocal Licensing and Persistent Manipulation)

    Spying, censoring, and abusing projects/developers/users are among the perks Microsoft found in GitHub; the E.E.E.-styled takeover is being misused for perception manipulation and even racism, so projects really need to take control of their hosting (outsourcing is risky and very expensive in the long run)

  14. Links 29/11/2021: FWUPD's 'Best Known Configuration' and Glimpse at OpenZFS 3.0

    Links for the day

  15. President Biden Wants to Put Microsofter in Charge of the Patent Office, Soon to Penalise Patent Applicants Who Don't Use Microsoft's Proprietary Formats

    The tradition of GAFAM or GIAFAM inside the USPTO carries on (e.g. Kappos and Lee; Kappos lobbies for Microsoft and IBM, whereas Lee now works for Amazon/Bezos after a career at Google); it's hard to believe anymore that the USPTO exists to serve innovators rather than aggressive monopolists, shielding their territory by patent threats (lawsuits or worse aggression) and cross-licensing that's akin to a cartel

  16. Microsoft GitHub Exposé — Part VIII — Mr. Graveley's Long Career Serving Microsoft's Agenda (Before Hiring by Microsoft to Work on GitHub's GPL Violations Machine)

    Balabhadra (Alex) Graveley was promoting .NET (or Mono) since his young days; his current job at Microsoft is consistent with past harms to GNU/Linux, basically pushing undesirable (except to Microsoft) things to GNU/Linux users; Tomboy used to be the main reason for distro ISOs to include Mono

  17. Dr. Andy Farnell on Teaching Cybersecurity in an Age of 'Fake Security'

    By Dr. Andy Farnell

  18. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, November 28, 2021

    IRC logs for Sunday, November 28, 2021

  19. Links 29/11/2021: Linux 5.16 RC3 and Lots of Patent Catch-up

    Links for the day

  20. By 2022 0% of 'News' Coverage About Patents Will Be Actual Journalism (Patent Litigation Sector Has Hijacked the World Wide Web to Disseminate Self-Promotional Misinformation)

    Finding news about the EPO is almost impossible because today’s so-called ‘news’ sites are in the pockets of Benoît Battistelli, António Campinos, and their cohorts who turned the EPO into a hub of litigation, not science; this is part of an international (worldwide) problem because financial resources for journalism have run out, and so the vacuum is filled/replaced almost entirely by Public Relations (PR) and marketing

  21. Trying to Appease Those Who Never Liked Free Software or Those Who Blindly Loved All Patent Monopolies to Begin With

    It’s crystal clear that trying to appease everyone, all the time, is impossible; in the case of the EPO, for example, we hope that exposing Team Battistelli/Campinos helps raise awareness of the harms of patent maximalism, and when speaking about Free software — whilst occasionally bashing the alternatives (proprietary) — we hope to convince more people to join the “Good Fight”

  22. Links 28/11/2021: Laravel 8.73 Released, GitHub Offline for Hours

    Links for the day

  23. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, November 27, 2021

    IRC logs for Saturday, November 27, 2021

  24. Links 27/11/2021: Nvidia’s DLSS Hype and Why GNU/Linux Matters

    Links for the day

  25. [Meme] Linus Gabriel Sebastian Takes GNU/Linux for a (Tail)'Spin'

    If you’re trying to prove that GNU/Linux is NOT Windows, then “haha! Well done…”

  26. GNU/Linux is for Freedom and It'll Gain Many Users When (or Where) People Understand What Software (or Computing) Freedom Means

    Software that respects people's freedom (and by extension privacy as well) is an alluring proposition; those who choose to try GNU/Linux for the wrong reasons are likely the wrong target audience for advocates

  27. Amid Reports of Microsoft's Competition Crimes in Europe...

    European companies are complaining, but they seem to overlook the principal aspect of an imperialistic system with bottomless pockets (almost 30 trillion dollars in debt already; US national debt soared again last month); Microsoft is shielded by a political system with military (“defence”) as bailout budget to help cushion international expansion for data grab and technical leverage, as we've seen in the case of EPO (this is all political, not technical, and should thus be treated as a political/corruption issue)

  28. Is Linus Trolling the GNU/Linux Community?

    This new video responds to what many sites have been provoked into amplifying

  29. Links 27/11/2021: Tux Paint 0.9.27 and SeaMonkey 1.1.19 in EasyOS

    Links for the day

  30. [Meme] Keeping Our Distance From Microsoft

    The OSI is the dagger, the Linux Foundation is the knife, and many others are the sword by which Microsoft tries to get into the very heart of GNU/Linux and extinguish the Free software movement

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts