| PetoKraus | i don't give credit either | Aug 21 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: the press takes attention away from him. It glorifies Linux. Been like this since "Linux" took off. | Aug 21 19:07 |
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| PetoKraus | though i like him | Aug 21 19:07 |
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| schestowitz | It was easier without all that so-called "political" burden | Aug 21 19:07 |
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| PetoKraus | and he's one of the three fanpages i joined on facebook (with debian and gentoo) | Aug 21 19:07 |
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| seller_liar | I don like LF because this false only "technical illusion of world" | Aug 21 19:07 |
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| PetoKraus | LF? | Aug 21 19:08 |
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| seller_liar | Linux foundation | Aug 21 19:08 |
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| schestowitz | To be funded by Microsoft one day, I've always reckoned. Like SCO was pro-Linux back in the days. | Aug 21 19:09 |
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| seller_liar | All credit goes to LF , | Aug 21 19:10 |
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| seller_liar | Linus,Greg and Alan are the only other pieces of chess | Aug 21 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | IBMers answer my question about Mono in Second Life now: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-o... | Aug 21 19:10 |
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| PetoKraus | greg and alan? | Aug 21 19:10 |
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| seller_liar | All Linux foundation people | Aug 21 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | Cox and Hartman | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| seller_liar | yes | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | He's with Novell (the latter | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| PetoKraus | never heard of'em | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | Should quit. :-) | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| seller_liar | of course Ted tso and all other of LF | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | Good point raised there: "So the question is, what does mono bring to the table that java doesn’t?" | Aug 21 19:11 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: definitely | Aug 21 19:12 |
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| schestowitz | I'm tired of IBM's secrecy. Same with Dell. Whose side are they on? | Aug 21 19:12 |
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| PetoKraus | well, the only thing would be - speed | Aug 21 19:12 |
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| schestowitz | On Dell and H-P: http://digg.com/linux_unix/SCO_... | Aug 21 19:12 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: hey roy | Aug 21 19:13 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: dot gnu have patent problems? | Aug 21 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, I forgot to answer that. | Aug 21 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer suggests that it's wrong to support .NET, not just with Mono. | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: why fsf do this? | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | Some say Dot GNU is for porting /to/ Linux, but not development from scratch. | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know, seller_liar | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| PetoKraus | let's ask then | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: only interoperabilty | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | I spoke to RMS a few times. He's not anti-Mono, but he doesn't want GNOME to depend on it. | Aug 21 19:14 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: who is the leader of gnome project? Icaza? | Aug 21 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.mail-archive.com/fo... | Aug 21 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | No. | Aug 21 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | Icaza sneaked out when there was a storm over Mono last year. He left quietly. | Aug 21 19:15 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: but ,he is a leader secretly | Aug 21 19:16 |
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| schestowitz | Watc Update #1 here: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/... | Aug 21 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | Wathc Update #1 here: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11... | Aug 21 19:17 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: will you type it third time? :P | Aug 21 19:18 |
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| PetoKraus | correctly ^ | Aug 21 19:19 |
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| schestowitz | Oh oh. | Aug 21 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | "The concept, which Intellectual Ventures presented this summer to the American Nuclear Society, would reduce the need for costly uranium enrichment and reprocessing, cutting the risk of weapons proliferation. The firm has a team of 30 engineers and scientists refining the concept, not to mention a big-name backer: Bill Gates." | Aug 21 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://seattle.bizjournals.com/sea... | Aug 21 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | So Mr. Gates is investing in patent trolls. | Aug 21 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: oops, didn't notice the typo. :-) | Aug 21 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | Here's an article in English about the Poland situation we wrote about yesterday: http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/b... | Aug 21 19:32 |
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| PetoKraus | http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/0... | Aug 21 19:34 |
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| PetoKraus | in case you didn't know | Aug 21 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, that's Grokla material. | Aug 21 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | *Groklaw ; Thanks, anyway. | Aug 21 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.heise.de/english/newst... | Aug 21 19:39 |
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| *benJIman has quit (Connection timed out) | Aug 21 19:46 |
| seller_liar | http://www.paldo.org/ | Aug 21 19:51 |
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| seller_liar | a good inoccent linux distribution | Aug 21 19:52 |
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| seller_liar | sad, but it uses mono for package management | Aug 21 19:52 |
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| seller_liar | look at version 1.14 | Aug 21 19:52 |
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| seller_liar | mono develop 1.0 ! | Aug 21 19:52 |
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| PetoKraus | aaaaaah | Aug 21 19:53 |
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| seller_liar | but is very good distro | Aug 21 19:53 |
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| PetoKraus | how? | Aug 21 19:53 |
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| PetoKraus | i mean, what makes distro "good"? | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| PetoKraus | for you | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| seller_liar | is inoccent, The distro does not endorse m$-novell | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Oh no. | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | I liked Paldo GNU/Linux. | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's from Switzerland, IIRC. One developer. | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| seller_liar | the distro developer is using vala | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| seller_liar | not mono | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm.. | Aug 21 19:54 |
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| seller_liar | vala will be a default language for upkg | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| seller_liar | not mono anymore | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| PetoKraus | aha | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | I remeber buying my previous PC from Dabs. Now comes this: Dabs.com founder accused of attempted rape, drugs offences The founder of Dabs.com, David Atherton, has been charged with attempted rape and possession of Class A drugs. | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | Atherton, who sold his business to BT in April 2006 for €£30m, is in custody after appearing in court in Bolton earlier this week. | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | A spokesman for Manchester Police said: "A 50-year-old man has been charged after a woman was sexually assaulted. | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200... | Aug 21 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | Sorry about the OT thing. Just noticed it. | Aug 21 19:56 |
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| seller_liar | PetoKraus: what? | Aug 21 19:56 |
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| PetoKraus | seller_liar: reading about vala. | Aug 21 19:56 |
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| seller_liar | PetoKraus: Vala it's mono anyway? | Aug 21 19:56 |
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| PetoKraus | http://live.gnome.org/Vala | Aug 21 19:56 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: you know, this reminds me of reiser. | Aug 21 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | There was another recent one I can't recall. | Aug 21 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | A founder of some company found dead after he had run naked and hugged some policeman. I can't remember which company. | Aug 21 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | And yesterday an executive from Vodafone (IIRC) was murdered in her house. | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| schestowitz | (it was reported yesterday, but happened before) | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| seller_liar | PetoKraus: like C# syntax ,but it'no mono framework | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| seller_liar | *it's not mono framework | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| PetoKraus | yes | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| PetoKraus | it's not .NET port. | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| schestowitz | On the other hand, a Microsoft manager was jailed for fraud last month. | Aug 21 19:58 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: who? | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: shall we celebrate? | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | I await the day that naked emperor Microsoft is found to be Enron #2 (or something not quite as bad but still a phony). | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: it's older news | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: I was thinking.... | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/... | Aug 21 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | Lots of links about the fraud here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/23... | Aug 21 20:00 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: Where are going the 90 bi which m$ lost? | Aug 21 20:00 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: ok thanks | Aug 21 20:00 |
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| schestowitz | Lost market value. Investors lost it, including Microsoft shareholders. They now pump up the stock so it's rising artificially. Pump and dump. | Aug 21 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | I've got loads of things I want to post in BN.com. I'll probably to to sleep very late today. | Aug 21 20:01 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: push-pull | Aug 21 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe it's true what ASUS said about shortages < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui... >, but why restock/stock just Windows and not GNU/Linux? (will watch this closely now) | Aug 21 20:09 |
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| PetoKraus | no money left for linux licenses? | Aug 21 20:11 |
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| PetoKraus | :P | Aug 21 20:11 |
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| neighborlee | wth is this rand-z I hear being pushed by this..alternatealias on buntu forums ??? | Aug 21 20:12 |
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| PetoKraus | ? | Aug 21 20:13 |
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| neighborlee | I just replied to his..ahem post by finding one from someone, to whom alternatealias never seemed able to find a comeback for,,here is my post: http://ubuntuforums.org/showth... | Aug 21 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: no, no RAND-z | Aug 21 20:14 |
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| neighborlee | ah,,, | Aug 21 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, RAND means something worse than they have you believe. | Aug 21 20:14 |
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| neighborlee | reasonable blah.. | Aug 21 20:14 |
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| neighborlee | I notice whenever these moles cant find a arguement to back their claims,,they get nasty. | Aug 21 20:15 |
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| neighborlee | go fig ;) | Aug 21 20:15 |
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| schestowitz | See http://boycottnovell.com/20... | Aug 21 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | They use jargon so as to have you confused and give us. | Aug 21 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | *up | Aug 21 20:16 |
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| neighborlee | brb | Aug 21 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | This is becoming a long discussion: http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/27688/ As usual, the LXer community is the hardest | Aug 21 20:22 |
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| neighborlee | ;) | Aug 21 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | On Mono:" Well there’s… Mono? Sure, Novell has access to Microsoft’s developers and documentation for re-implementing .NET on Linux, but Microsoft has hardly made a college try to help Novell actually FINISH Mono or commit programmers to the effort. Hell, if Microsoft took one million dollars of that hundred million, and earmarked a few of its .NET developers as consulting staff to Novell for 3 years, you can bet they would | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | get to parity with the one on Windows, at least so it isn’t always broken with the latest implementation of whatever API. Now, I’m not blaming Microsoft for not being open with Novell — it’s not their implicit responsibility to build Open Source projects — Mono is a Novell sponsored, community effort. But if Microsoft really wants to see .NET running on literally every OS, then Mono is going to need more than just “here | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | ’s our docs and call our guys and come on campus whenever you want when you need help, Miguel. Oh and by the way, have some free Diet Cokes and go use our Starbucks in the lounge.”" | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9228 | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| neighborlee | yeah its clear we need to remember what ballmer said 2/28/2008,,,about who is M$'s biggest competitor..of course he said linux :) | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| neighborlee | and to think anyone wonders, why people want nothng to do with mono ? sheesh louiza | Aug 21 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | Who's louiza? :-) | Aug 21 20:26 |
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| neighborlee | one of the biggets plus's for us, is redhat, not supporting mono and fedora coming latley to their senses. | Aug 21 20:26 |
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| neighborlee | oh sorry LOL | Aug 21 20:26 |
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| neighborlee | its a english saying :) | Aug 21 20:26 |
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| schestowitz | I'm used to "yes charlotte" | Aug 21 20:29 |
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| neighborlee | http://en.wiktionary.org/wik... | Aug 21 20:29 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, lol | Aug 21 20:29 |
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| neighborlee | just my way of avoiding cuss words, while remembering my dear grandmother, whose name was louise ;),,hey it works ;) | Aug 21 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | God bless her. | Aug 21 20:31 |
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| neighborlee | heh | Aug 21 20:32 |
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| neighborlee | oh btw..what is this claim, that mono is in the OIN ,,I can not find it anywhere ..?? | Aug 21 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | That would be new to me. OIN has patents? ]sarcasm /] | Aug 21 20:33 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 21 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | We don't have patents. Also, see my earlier pointer to Gates' backing of trolls. | Aug 21 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | OIN is worthless against trolls. They laugh at it. | Aug 21 20:36 |
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| neighborlee | :) | Aug 21 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | To put it mildly, I'm find a trend where Mac users (putting it mildly... not fans) praise every piece of Mac-only 'open source'. If it need the Apple blobs, which only run on super-pricey gadgets and PCs, what's so open about it? | Aug 21 20:52 |
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| schestowitz | *needs | Aug 21 20:52 |
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| *seller_liar (n=seller@201-68-113-10.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 21 20:53 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, yeah welll maybe intel macs will come to rescue for apple necessities who knows..no idea what their pricing is | Aug 21 20:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's less about the hardware and more about the stack. If it's OK to criticise Windows-only 'open faux', then it would be hypocritical to accept this term dilution from Mac software. | Aug 21 20:55 |
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| schestowitz | Gads, I've got so much stuff to post about Novell. I've /so/ fallen behind. | Aug 21 20:56 |
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| neighborlee | Id ont know where you find the time...such a champ ;)( | Aug 21 20:57 |
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| *_Doug (i=c17a2f92@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f62ebe55afd6cc14) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 21 21:03 |
| seller_liar | Someone have tried to talk about remove mono from gnewsense? | Aug 21 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, _Doug | Aug 21 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, seller_liar | Aug 21 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer did. | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| seller_liar | and | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| _Doug | Hey .. | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Well... I'll get you some links. | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| seller_liar | brian and paul did not accept | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/20... | Aug 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. I meant Gobuntu. | Aug 21 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os... | Aug 21 21:08 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: thanks! I do not know about this page | Aug 21 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | They sort of join forces (not exactly), so it may be relevant. Shuttleworth does seem to mind Mono though (PJ disagrees with him too because he ignores the patent trolls): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/22... | Aug 21 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Doug, the troll came back yesterday (or the day before). Via Tor, got banned. | Aug 21 21:10 |
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| _Doug | Well .. it figures .. | Aug 21 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | Time for a policy sooner or later. They play innocent while throwing insults. | Aug 21 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | How ironic is this headline: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-1... They can make datacentres there, but they shred lots of evidence of Microsoft crimes over in Iowa. They also have some very questionable tax rebates there. Possible misconduct or subtle bribe.. never mind that though. | Aug 21 21:13 |
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| _Doug | Iowa, that's the place where the Court shreads its own documents .. :) | Aug 21 21:14 |
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| _Doug | Or is it Utah ? | Aug 21 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | I can't find what I'm looking for. | Aug 21 21:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/27... There was another one with listing of some kind of rebate. | Aug 21 21:16 |
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| schestowitz | _Doug: see this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/20/... (El Reg reference at the top) | Aug 21 21:16 |
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| _Doug | It was new SCO that wnr backinto court and shreaded its own documents .. | Aug 21 21:19 |
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| _Doug | SCO PULPS CALDERA-MS TRIAL ARCHIVES | Aug 21 21:20 |
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| _Doug | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/05/22/s... | Aug 21 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Aug 21 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | Did PJ cover this? | Aug 21 21:20 |
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| _Doug | I would thin so .. | Aug 21 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | See what you can make of this one: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/21... | Aug 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | I thought about trying to ask Dell for answers, but they are too boiler-roomy, methinks. | Aug 21 21:23 |
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| _Doug | co-incidence .. :) | Aug 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Why Did Dell join in? | Aug 21 21:26 |
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| _Doug | "I have written confirmation that several hundred boxes have already been turned into paper mulch," said J. Harrison Colter, an attorney for the Canopy Group, which is now representing SCO/Caldera in the documents matter. | Aug 21 21:27 |
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| _Doug | See .. totaly coincidental ... | Aug 21 21:27 |
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| _Doug | Why Did Dell join in?: because MS stood on their nuts .. re OEM contracts ? | Aug 21 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | Doesn't say much about Dell. | Aug 21 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 21 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | That's what I reckon, but what are the terms? | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| _Doug | they're just the "delivery people" | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | Dell already pays Microsoft for Ubuntu PCs | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| _Doug | join in: what more recent developements are you refering to, if any ? | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| seller_liar | for codecs? | Aug 21 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | That's what happens when many companies can assemble parts and only one can sell Windows. | Aug 21 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | That's why there was a stampede to Symbian too. Control. | Aug 21 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, seller_liar, at the least | Aug 21 21:31 |
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| _Doug | codecs: ahh .. well it's just more of the same extend (IP protection) and embrace (ie pollute) | Aug 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | Same with their new 'Remix': http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Aug 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | As you can see, even Shuttleworth confirmed this to us. | Aug 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, then Mono and other stuff, eh? | Aug 21 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Until Windows is cheaper. | Aug 21 21:32 |
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| _Doug | I see the light: it's all about poluting the codecs, nothing new to see here ... | Aug 21 21:33 |
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| _Doug | What do Dell get out of it, their 'partner' agrees to not sue them ... ! | Aug 21 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | Where does H-P in this picture. They only preload SLED 10, which is polluted and paid for via Novell. | Aug 21 21:35 |
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| neighborlee | _Doug, haha as always | Aug 21 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | Had it not been for the Dell polls, they would probably go with SLED, which is what they offer in China. | Aug 21 21:36 |
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| neighborlee | maybe linus is right about 'release early and often', but I just cant see how a 6 mo. cycle for latest ubuntu release is going to give anyone the feeling of stability or security ? | Aug 21 21:38 |
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| neighborlee | atm I have mandriva installed, but due to their inclusion of mono, its about to be wiped | Aug 21 21:39 |
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| neighborlee | and I really DO LOVE mandriva ..but mono nope, they can kiss my grits | Aug 21 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | Use KDE Mandriva | Aug 21 21:40 |
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| neighborlee | I cant | Aug 21 21:40 |
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| neighborlee | its against my ethics | Aug 21 21:40 |
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| _Doug | You don't have to upgrade, it's not as if the new stuff will stop working with the old 'stuff' | Aug 21 21:40 |
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| neighborlee | sorry to be anal, but thats just me ;( | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| neighborlee | ok nvm, im not sorry :) | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| neighborlee | im firm in my resolve ;)whew | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | KDE against your ethics or Mono | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | ? | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| neighborlee | both | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| neighborlee | gtk vs qt | Aug 21 21:41 |
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| neighborlee | even though I really am annoyed what gtk/gnome is doing to free software | Aug 21 21:42 |
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| neighborlee | even so,I can always fork if I wish | Aug 21 21:42 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 21 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Qt would go BSD probably had Trolltech dissolved in Nokia. | Aug 21 21:43 |
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| neighborlee | hm | Aug 21 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Aug 21 21:43 |
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| neighborlee | kewl thx | Aug 21 21:43 |
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| _Doug | What's Dell paying MS in royalties ? | Aug 21 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | Nobody knows. | Aug 21 21:44 |
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| _Doug | What's Dell paying MS in royalties for the codecs? | Aug 21 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | Ask Fluendo for starter, then ask Dell what that stupid deal was about. | Aug 21 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | Dell and Canonical do it via Fleundo, Spaiin. | Aug 21 21:45 |
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| _Doug | Like the Novell deal, it just gets Dell to put on paper that they acknowledge MS patent claims .. | Aug 21 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | I just got mentioned in ComputerWorld. | Aug 21 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/m... | Aug 21 21:46 |
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| neighborlee | ah ic | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| _Doug | "Users of GNU/Linux and Solaris operating systems have previously lacked solutions which enabled them to license and use popular media formats such as Windows Media, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in accordance with the laws of their country" | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, _Doug, there's a group of them signing a paper suggesting that Linux is 'tainted. | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| _Doug | http://www.fluendo.com/press/rel... | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| neighborlee | ah yes..the dreaded takers overs/consolidations..I saw this coming | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| _Doug | So it isn't a technical problem .. | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | No need to show evidence. Just sign away. It's like SCO. | Aug 21 21:47 |
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| _Doug | I do know that most distros, distributed from the US, had the codecs missing, you had to download these from a third country. | Aug 21 21:48 |
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| _Doug | What a pity some people didn't sgow more backbone !!! | Aug 21 21:48 |
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| _Doug | show = sgow | Aug 21 21:48 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but you needn't buy a Dell for GNU/Linux. It's chicken and egg... | Aug 21 21:50 |
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| schestowitz | Scenario 1: People refuse to pay Microsoft by buying Ubuntu from Dell, then Dell takes Linux off mass market | Aug 21 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | Scenario 2: everyone accepts Microsoft tax, buys Ubuntu from Dell, then Microsoft essentially owns the GNU. | Aug 21 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | Great, ain't it? | Aug 21 21:51 |
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| _Doug | All we're seeing is the balkanization of Open Source .. | Aug 21 21:52 |
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| _Doug | purr of evil .. :) | Aug 21 21:52 |
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| _Doug | MS prints Ubuntu coupons .. :) | Aug 21 21:53 |
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| _Doug | we haven't even got to IP violations in the er .. IP protocols .. :) | Aug 21 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Well, not exactly. | Aug 21 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | protocols IP you mean? | Aug 21 21:54 |
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| _Doug | That'll keep for 2012 ... | Aug 21 21:55 |
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| _Doug | Intellectual Property violations in 'our' Internet Protocols | Aug 21 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | They have Apache now. | Aug 21 21:56 |
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| _Doug | IP violations in the IP stack .. it's a pun .. :) | Aug 21 21:56 |
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| _Doug | Apache ? | Aug 21 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Aug 21 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | Not excctly though. | Aug 21 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | Bruce Perens and his community reckon they'll try to change HTTP or HTML. | Aug 21 21:57 |
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| trmanco_ | great :| | Aug 21 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | Specifically...? | Aug 21 22:20 |
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| trmanco_ | my twin | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | Spooky | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| trmanco | good | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| trmanco | I'm back and authed | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder if we should speak to the OSI | Aug 21 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | They sure seem to be more concerned now about Novell's role. | Aug 21 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | Aha!! http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/0... | Aug 21 22:38 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, I like part of that, except the part where he mentions his faith in novel for helping spread foss LOL | Aug 21 22:55 |
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| schestowitz | Novell has money ties with KDE | Aug 21 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | They have just sponsored Akademy, so he must suck up to them. Mind you, this is one of the top KDE developers | Aug 21 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | He's almost man #1 in terms of recognition in KDE. | Aug 21 22:56 |
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| neighborlee | ah didnt know | Aug 21 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | IOW, he need to keep his mouth shut. Watch how he ends the post apologetically. He also CLOSED COMMENTS. | Aug 21 22:57 |
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| neighborlee | ok, thats sad then, knowing that. | Aug 21 22:57 |
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| neighborlee | I noticed that yes | Aug 21 22:58 |
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| neighborlee | whimp major | Aug 21 22:58 |
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| schestowitz | The message Novell sends Aaron: "you just keep developing. Be a good volunteer. We'll sell coupons for "peace of mind", i.e. we won't blow your mates' kneecaps" | Aug 21 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | They should stand up and demand change. It's amazing how much they put up with as volunteers. Novell stomps on their GPL -- their butter and bread for success. | Aug 21 23:00 |
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| neighborlee | yes and so the world turns ;) | Aug 21 23:11 |
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| neighborlee | I guess we all choose how our story is written ;) | Aug 21 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | I hope that the devs will become more vocal, but they can't because of friends and colleagues. | Aug 21 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | Linus has colleagues from Novell, which funds the LF. | Aug 21 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | KDE has support from Novell (which at the same time screwing the devs) | Aug 21 23:12 |
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| neighborlee | they best be caeful | Aug 21 23:12 |
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| neighborlee | careful | Aug 21 23:12 |
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| neighborlee | I have very good friends, who are almost ready to DUMP ubuntu for *BSD | Aug 21 23:12 |
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| schestowitz | BSD? Why? | Aug 21 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | They have similar DEs (GNOME, KDE, etc.) | Aug 21 23:13 |
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| neighborlee | I suppose the license | Aug 21 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | Licences are not the problem./ | Aug 21 23:14 |
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| neighborlee | unhappy with mono intrusion, etc. | Aug 21 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | BSD will break loose on the desktop when GNU/Linux does. | Aug 21 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: they inherit the same s* | Aug 21 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | See my point about them using the same top layer of the stack | Aug 21 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | The kernel does not make all that much of a difference in this context | Aug 21 23:15 |
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| neighborlee | yeah I am not sure of his reason | Aug 21 23:16 |
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| neighborlee | I can ask | Aug 21 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | It's possible to dance between kernels. The software stays largely the smae. | Aug 21 23:17 |
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| neighborlee | mostly yes | Aug 21 23:17 |
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| schestowitz | I've seen BSD users who complain about the same issue. They should help us. | Aug 21 23:18 |
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| neighborlee | hm interesting had no idea,but yeah | Aug 21 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Freedom is not a popularity contest. As some GNUs would say, there's no point to compromising freedom for market share. | Aug 21 23:19 |
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| MinceR | BSD is even more susceptible to attacks from the enemies of FLOSS. | Aug 21 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Aug 21 23:21 |
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| seller_liar | the big problem of BSD developers are elitism and "I'm the best" | Aug 21 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Talk about Linus... though he too accuses them of this. | Aug 21 23:25 |
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| Bobo | same goes for Linux except they replace best with efficient | Aug 21 23:25 |
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| seller_liar | for example | Aug 21 23:25 |
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| seller_liar | look how many bsd distro have and how many GNU linux distros have | Aug 21 23:26 |
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| seller_liar | 5 vs 500 | Aug 21 23:26 |
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| seller_liar | why? | Aug 21 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | Linux has 5 'major' ones. :-) | Aug 21 23:26 |
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| seller_liar | Linus should not be considered, because he works for companies,not to desktop is much important for him | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| schestowitz | 1 kernel, 2 main DEs (also shared with BSDs), etc. | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| neighborlee | I think having so many does cause fracturing of a otherwise solid base though | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: BSD people is very bastard | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| neighborlee | I always have thought so,,, considering the weak 'ish releases of the major brands, I think im prob. about right on that | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| Bobo | hold on Boycott Novel's Java chat sucks | Aug 21 23:27 |
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| neighborlee | lol ok ;0- ;) | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: "oh my god ,my system works in a toaster" | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: "oh my god , my system do clustering over the internet!" | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| neighborlee | I think it also leads to some confusion of new users coming to LINUX | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| neighborlee | oops linux | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| neighborlee | ie:omg, which one do I chooose ? | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| ReverseGTR | Bobo here | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 21 23:28 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: "oh my god , my system is so paranoic whiche even can not install" | Aug 21 23:29 |
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| ReverseGTR | anyway you have to be a bit arrogant to design software which makes barely to no capital and is open for anyone to change | Aug 21 23:29 |
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| seller_liar | "oh my god, my system is more fast in servers than linux ,but no one looks for me" | Aug 21 23:29 |
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| ReverseGTR | ie = open source means arrogant developers. Arrogance is not always a bad thing. | Aug 21 23:29 |
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| neighborlee | well ;) | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| neighborlee | it should not be so however | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| seller_liar | It's a shame for a donated kernel ,only help companies | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Bobo | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| ReverseGTR | schestowitz: yea | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Don't forget that BSDers share lots od drivers with us. | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | OpenSSH too... | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| seller_liar | BSD people does not worry with "normal users" | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| neighborlee | yes much is shared | Aug 21 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Let's not bark up the wrong tree :-) :-) | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| ReverseGTR | neighborlee: because both BSD and Linux users have a common social effort | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| ReverseGTR | how they go about it in detail differs | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| neighborlee | yes | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| neighborlee | I've read some on this issue, though not tons | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| seller_liar | BSD people is very crazy , M$ uses a lot of code from Bsd license | Aug 21 23:31 |
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| neighborlee | well | Aug 21 23:32 |
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| neighborlee | im not sure how that makes them crazy ;) | Aug 21 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | After the Reiser thing, I don't know if it's fair to call them crazy. | Aug 21 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | Hans Reiser is a shame to many of us, a disgrace. | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| ReverseGTR | seller_liar: that is because their license allows anybody no matter indivisual or corporate body to utilize code without the end result necessarily being obligated to uphold the same requirements | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| seller_liar | reiser is a poor guym | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| neighborlee | very sad yes, about reiser | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| neighborlee | what a shame he was so good at programming, yet so bad at social issues ;() | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| ReverseGTR | GNU on the other hand very vehamently disallows that | Aug 21 23:33 |
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| seller_liar | ReverseGTR: yes | Aug 21 23:34 |
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| neighborlee | well | Aug 21 23:34 |
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| neighborlee | you can argue bsd is therefore more free | Aug 21 23:34 |
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| seller_liar | BSD someday will acess the desktop? | Aug 21 23:34 |
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| neighborlee | you take our freedom, ane chooose what you do with it | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| seller_liar | libertinous license | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| neighborlee | yes | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| seller_liar | libertinity is not good, it's more useful on specific cases | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| ReverseGTR | neighborlee: both can be exploited though, there is no way to avoid it | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| neighborlee | I now | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| neighborlee | I know ;( | Aug 21 23:35 |
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| neighborlee | but that is how people make choices ;) | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| neighborlee | you follow path of good,, or greed | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| neighborlee | that defines who we are. | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| seller_liar | I do not know | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| seller_liar | But | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| ReverseGTR | neighborlee: or you just implement or distribute your software the best way you think | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| seller_liar | The BSD people must change the focus | Aug 21 23:36 |
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| ReverseGTR | some businesses go opensource because they know they do not have infastructure to support all their users on their own | Aug 21 23:37 |
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| ReverseGTR | or that charging for support is their prerogative | Aug 21 23:38 |
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| seller_liar | Ubuntu bsd | Aug 21 23:39 |
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| schestowitz | Some of them iust latch onto others (Oracle) | Aug 21 23:39 |
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| ReverseGTR | schestowitz: they have the support, but lack the infastructure to develope protocols and apps on their own | Aug 21 23:40 |
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| ReverseGTR | if you want a even greater former software pioneer turned M$ shill there is SCO | Aug 21 23:41 |
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| ReverseGTR | even there there isn't really a need for a Boycott SCO website since their systems are not widely used anymore anyway | Aug 21 23:42 |
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| MinceR | 003838 < neighborlee> you can argue bsd is therefore more free | Aug 21 23:44 |
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| MinceR | arguing won't make it true ;) | Aug 21 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | SCO got some positive coverage from their local press. | Aug 21 23:45 |
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| MinceR | gpl protects the freedom of the code, bsd doesn't | Aug 21 23:45 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, heh | Aug 21 23:45 |
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| neighborlee | I think thats a matter of opinion isn't it | Aug 21 23:46 |
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| neighborlee | I mean they are both coming from freedom loving people | Aug 21 23:46 |
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| neighborlee | create, and share | Aug 21 23:47 |
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| neighborlee | and hope make better ;))) | Aug 21 23:47 |
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| neighborlee | I get that part yes ;) | Aug 21 23:47 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: sure, it gives more freedom to the one who developed it but then they in turn can make it close to impossible to change it. | Aug 21 23:47 |
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| MinceR | it gives more freedom to users too | Aug 21 23:48 |
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| MinceR | it guarantees that the code will be available and will be legal to use | Aug 21 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | Sustainability question. | Aug 21 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | BSD is liberal, GPL protective of freedom. It's philosophy anyway | Aug 21 23:49 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: or in other words makes people automatically oblidged to obey whatever contractual obligations the developer set forth once opened. Which may include the inability to examine or change certain files thus making any other version pushed by someone else different if not inferior | Aug 21 23:49 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, yup | Aug 21 23:50 |
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| ReverseGTR | like schestowitz states, neither are better | Aug 21 23:50 |
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| ReverseGTR | it should be all up to the developer to decide | Aug 21 23:50 |
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| MinceR | the obligations it makes people obey are restricted to the ones set in the GPL | Aug 21 23:51 |
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| MinceR | i wish we could get to the point where those protections won't be necessary any more | Aug 21 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | GPL's? | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| MinceR | but today they're needed because of bastards like microsoft and apple | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| MinceR | yes | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, indeed,,thats the idea | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | They are already circumvanted with TiVo and swpats | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | *circumvented | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| ReverseGTR | but companies can also utilize the GPL to create a rift between their open source and closed distributions: http://www.linux.com/feature/118489 | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| MinceR | that's why we need to use GPLv3 | Aug 21 23:52 |
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| neighborlee | totally indeed | Aug 21 23:53 |
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| *MinceR reads | Aug 21 23:53 |
| MinceR | that looks like they're violating the GPL | Aug 21 23:55 |
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| MinceR | at least according to the article someone posted here earlier | Aug 21 23:55 |
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| ReverseGTR | also Google was caught handing out their latest and thus more complete SDKs to their 2nd Tier partners while leaving every other developer in the dark, eventually only to be found out after a Google employee screwed up in forwarding emails: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/... | Aug 21 23:55 |
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| MinceR | and i don't see how this is the GPL's fault | Aug 21 23:56 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: either way the rift in MySQL will happen | Aug 21 23:56 |
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| neighborlee | ReverseGTR, eek ;) | Aug 21 23:56 |
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| MinceR | well, android isn't going to be open unless they support native code | Aug 21 23:56 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: GPL can enable the main developer along with whoever they are partnered with to severly limit the open sourcecode to the point that anyone who developes from that can end up creating apps that are incapadible with the main string. | Aug 21 23:58 |
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| *trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)") | Aug 21 23:58 |
| MinceR | so could they with BSD | Aug 21 23:58 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: but there is nothing legally binding the latter | Aug 21 23:59 |
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| MinceR | the license won't really keep the copyright holder from closing the code | Aug 21 23:59 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: in order for them to do the same thing under BSD would be for them to openly admit they closed it | Aug 21 23:59 |
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