Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 21st, 2008 - Part II

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schestowitzLinus had some rude remarks about it.Aug 21 13:54
MinceRwell, all the rabid BSD fans i've met were difficult to tolerateAug 21 13:54
trmancohttp://beranger.org/index.php?...Aug 21 13:55
schestowitz^^ former BSD fan.Aug 21 13:56
MinceRin fact, the BSD and GNU/Linux communities could work together for a better future if the BSD fans wouldn't be so preoccupied with being frustrated by the low mindshare of BSD.Aug 21 13:56
schestowitzGood find. He analyses Novell (it's in my feeds, but I haven't gotten around to it yet).Aug 21 13:57
TallkenWellAug 21 14:10
TallkenMacs are rock solidAug 21 14:11
Tallkenit's easier to find a rock solid Mac, in which all areAug 21 14:11
Tallkenthan a rock solid PCAug 21 14:11
Tallkenyou've to know what to lookAug 21 14:11
MinceRlolAug 21 14:11
MinceRplease define this working definition of "rock solid"Aug 21 14:11
schestowitzIf you throw a chair at it...Aug 21 14:12
TallkenI've seen a PowerBook fall to the floor from 1,5 meters, more or lessAug 21 14:12
Tallkengot a little, how do you say when metal gets, like, molded?Aug 21 14:12
Tallkentry that with an all plastic PCAug 21 14:13
MinceRoh, you're looking for a paperweight, not a computerAug 21 14:13
MinceRi'm sorry, didn't realizeAug 21 14:13
TallkenROFL?Aug 21 14:13
TallkenMinceR: that PowerBook worked fine afterwardsAug 21 14:13
MinceRi tend to just not drop my computers, it somehows keeps them workingAug 21 14:14
Tallkenand with disk sensors, which we must say, were an idea from IBM, no harddisk could've ocurred... well, would be harder at leastAug 21 14:14
MinceRif i wanted to throw them around, i'd buy a rugged pc, not a macAug 21 14:14
Tallkenit wasn't *my* computer lolAug 21 14:14
TallkenI've a whole plastic computerAug 21 14:14
TallkenHP Pavillion 6530EPAug 21 14:15
MinceRbut leave it to iDiots to throw their stuff around and whine if it breaksAug 21 14:15
Tallken*perfect* Linux supportAug 21 14:15
Tallkennot official of courseAug 21 14:15
Tallkenbut HAL-info states it doesn't need any workaroundAug 21 14:15
TallkenBTW, when does someone start a proper Linux HW Compatibility List?Aug 21 14:16
schestowitzMinceR:  did you mean DiDiots?Aug 21 14:16
TallkenAll I've seen have been poorly maintainedAug 21 14:16
MinceRi don't know what that would beAug 21 14:16
schestowitzLaura DiSiot?Aug 21 14:16
MinceRiDiot is the typical crapple fanboy ;)Aug 21 14:16
TallkenDiDiots? Is that someone who used dd on the harddisk? xDAug 21 14:16
kentmahiAug 21 14:17
MinceRoh, i faintly recognize that nameAug 21 14:17
MinceRTallken: hardly... i've used dd on it a few timesAug 21 14:17
MinceRfor example when i arranged partitions wrong and noticed it in the middle of a gentoo install :>Aug 21 14:17
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_DiDio "DiDio is often viewed as being very critical of the free software movement and community due to her early and continuing support of SCO and frequent referencing of those studies comparing the TCO of Microsoft and Linux where Microsoft appears to have performed well."Aug 21 14:17
TallkenROFLAug 21 14:17
MinceRoh.Aug 21 14:17
TallkenMinceR: never used itAug 21 14:17
schestowitz"been nicknamed "Didiot" and "Dildo" (particularly on Yahoo's SCOX board), claiming "There's an extremist fringe of Linux loonies who hang out on forums and are disrespectful and threatening because you disagree with them" and "I've had these nut jobs calling me at 11 o'clock at night"[5] - comments which have only served to increase the antagonism."Aug 21 14:18
TallkenMinceR: on the diskAug 21 14:18
TallkenMinceR: deleted /dev once, thoughAug 21 14:18
TallkenMinceR: in the middleAug 21 14:18
MinceR:)Aug 21 14:18
MinceRalso, i've used dd to make qemu disk imagesAug 21 14:18
PetoKrausthinkpads are more rugged than anything elseAug 21 14:18
TallkenMinceR: of a Gentoo install on /gentoo ; mount -o bind /dev /gentoo/dev ; chroot /gentoo ; got fed up and aborted installation and deleted /gentoo without unmount /gentoo/dev :DAug 21 14:18
MinceRlolAug 21 14:19
schestowitzPetoKraus: but ThinkPads are not pretty.Aug 21 14:19
PetoKraus:DAug 21 14:19
MinceRyes they areAug 21 14:19
PetoKrausthey are, man, they are pretty.Aug 21 14:19
PetoKrausIN YOUR FACE!Aug 21 14:19
MinceRjust not in the crapple cheap-white-plastic way.Aug 21 14:19
MinceRbut in the this-is-what-a-computer-looks-like way.Aug 21 14:19
schestowitzA matter of taste, meguessesAug 21 14:20
PetoKrausnah. in the "i can smack you with it and then blog about it with it"Aug 21 14:20
MinceRyesAug 21 14:20
MinceRiDiots have no taste ;)Aug 21 14:20
twitterGood morning.  Catching up....Aug 21 14:21
MinceRhayAug 21 14:21
TallkenMaybe she learnt somethingAug 21 14:21
Tallken(yes I've too much faith in people lol)Aug 21 14:22
TallkenMicrosoft IP in LinuxAug 21 14:22
TallkenMs. Didio was more cautious in relation to Steve Ballmer's 2006 comments about possible Microsoft IP in Linux "At this point I think it is more of an intimidation tactic. To tell you the truth, if I am Joe IT, I don’t know if this is much of a deterrent to me. Quite frankly, you have to prove [IP infringement]."Aug 21 14:22
MinceRtime to teach her what the word "FUD" meansAug 21 14:22
schestowitzYankee Group is a scam. Let me find something.Aug 21 14:22
twitterYes, in the US Universities first and now ordinary businesses claim copyright on ALL images of their buildings.  Guards will waste their time running people with cameras off .... so now the bad guys have an easy distraction.Aug 21 14:22
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/01/yan...Aug 21 14:22
schestowitzThe quote at the top says it all really.Aug 21 14:23
schestowitztwitter: I saw McCain's page on IP earlier. Not good...Aug 21 14:23
blackrabbithttp://www.computerworld.com/acti...Aug 21 14:26
blackrabbitWSJ: Microsoft hires Seinfeld to bite AppleAug 21 14:26
blackrabbitSeinfeld will take home $10 million for his role in the spotsAug 21 14:26
blackrabbitbut I thought vista was doing so well? LOLAug 21 14:26
blackrabbitThe software giant's new $300 million advertising campaign, devised by a newly hired ad agency, has been closely guarded. But Mr. Seinfeld will be one of the key celebrity pitchmen, say people close to the situation. He will appear with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates in ads and receive about $10 million for the work, they say.Aug 21 14:27
blackrabbit300 million dollars !!!Aug 21 14:27
blackrabbitthat is pathetic!Aug 21 14:27
blackrabbitand look, Mr. Bill "philanthropic" Gates will appear in the adsAug 21 14:27
blackrabbitwhat a whoreAug 21 14:28
blackrabbitThe new ad effort is expected to use some variation of the slogan "Windows, Not WallsAug 21 14:28
blackrabbitWindows, not walls?Aug 21 14:29
twitterMcCain is worse than Obama, who's not very good.Aug 21 14:29
TallkenSeinfeld?Aug 21 14:29
Tallkenwo-hoo!Aug 21 14:29
TallkenThis is gonna be good :DAug 21 14:29
TallkenI don't mind how much money they throw at itAug 21 14:29
blackrabbitI wouldn't do commercials for MS if they offered me $100 millionAug 21 14:30
Tallkenas long as their actions are proxiedAug 21 14:30
Tallkenand masked as independentAug 21 14:30
Tallkenblackrabbit: but you're probably a knowledgeagle person in the IT fieldAug 21 14:30
blackrabbitmeaning?Aug 21 14:30
Tallkenmeaning if you weren't you wouldn't have reason not to make a commercial for MSAug 21 14:31
blackrabbitI have standardsAug 21 14:31
blackrabbitsome people don'tAug 21 14:31
Tallkenstandards is a bad word to use nowadays xDAug 21 14:31
Tallken(OOXML)Aug 21 14:32
Tallken:DAug 21 14:32
blackrabbitso is "free" perception is everythingAug 21 14:32
Tallkenit's a matter of knowledge and standardsAug 21 14:32
Tallkenyou can have standardsAug 21 14:32
Tallkenbut you may not have the knowledge to know what you're doing is against your standardsAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitstandards imply knowledgeAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitvarious degrees of standardsAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitand a thousand ways to define them allAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitand the people who have themAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitand the people who misunderstand themAug 21 14:33
blackrabbitetcAug 21 14:33
Tallkenand a standard to bind them allAug 21 14:33
Tallkenups sorry ringAug 21 14:33
TallkenwellAug 21 14:34
TallkenI see where you getting atAug 21 14:34
TallkenbutAug 21 14:34
twitterSeinfeld on M$ computers.  One early 90s thing meets another, that's going to look fresh.Aug 21 14:34
TallkenI see also where *I'm* getting atAug 21 14:34
Tallkenstandards are IMO a general thingAug 21 14:35
Tallkenand you can apply them to several areasAug 21 14:35
Tallkento allow you to apply them to several areasAug 21 14:35
Tallkenyou have to have the knowledge related to those areasAug 21 14:35
Tallkenso you can convert an abstract standardAug 21 14:35
Tallkenin something concreteAug 21 14:35
Tallkentwitter: lol :DAug 21 14:35
Tallkentwitter: I like SeinfeldAug 21 14:36
blackrabbitthis implies I don't understand where you're coming from, I doAug 21 14:36
Tallkentwitter: and Elaine :DAug 21 14:36
Tallkenblackrabbit: didn't understand, care to rephrase please?Aug 21 14:36
MinceRi didn't think seinfeld could sink so lowAug 21 14:36
blackrabbitO_oAug 21 14:36
Tallken?Aug 21 14:37
blackrabbit..moving onAug 21 14:37
MinceRre the powerbook: an anecdote showing that powerbooks are tough doesn't mean all crapple computers are.Aug 21 14:37
schestowitzBallmer gets the attention he craves in the front page: http://boycottnovell.com/   (lots of quotes and some photos)Aug 21 14:38
twitterHe lent his name to a lame HP advert.  http://www.youtube.com/watc...Aug 21 14:38
schestowitzOh no, Jerry SOLD OUT!!Aug 21 14:38
Tallkentwitter: ok, crappy as hellAug 21 14:39
PetoKrausjerry who?Aug 21 14:39
Tallkentwitter: but it's my computer in the ad ;)Aug 21 14:39
PetoKrausthe mouse, you mean?Aug 21 14:39
twitterThere were not many computers in the actual show.  Run 1989 to 1998.Aug 21 14:40
schestowitzBlech. Microsoft to use comedy to sell Windows. It figures. It's a joke.Aug 21 14:40
twitterInvestors won't be laughing.Aug 21 14:40
twitterha ha.Aug 21 14:40
MinceRPetoKraus: seinfeld.Aug 21 14:40
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schestowitzThat's it. I can't watch Seinfeld anymore. Watched it over 1000 times (I think), but this is it. It's a moral issue. :-)Aug 21 14:41
*blackrabbit registers BoycottSeinfeldAug 21 14:41
MinceR:)Aug 21 14:42
blackrabbitnot :DAug 21 14:42
MinceRit would be niceAug 21 14:42
schestowitzThis isn't the first time they use celebs to sell Windows. See my earlier post about Bollywood. It also mentioned Jackass and NASCAR.Aug 21 14:43
twitterA M$ person will feel right at home selling torture devices to local governments to inflict on citizens.  ... M$ Jackass?!! Very funny and fitting.Aug 21 14:44
MinceRthey're already doing thatAug 21 14:44
MinceRwinblows is a torture device, for exampleAug 21 14:45
twitterYes but Windows only kills people indirectly.Aug 21 14:45
twitterso far.Aug 21 14:45
MinceRwell, some hospital equipment is said to run windowsAug 21 14:45
MinceRso we can't really knowAug 21 14:45
schestowitzBill Gates: "Windows 2000 already contains features such as the human discipline component, where the PC can send an electric shock through the keyboard if the human does something that does not please Windows."Aug 21 14:46
MinceR:)Aug 21 14:46
twitterI wonder if they get royalties from Taser.Aug 21 14:47
twitterIt's funny that blogger thinks the Novel deal is making M$ money.  I thought they paid something silly like $3,000 per license the first time.Aug 21 14:49
schestowitztwitter: which blogger?Aug 21 14:49
schestowitzSean Kerner? Well, they *do* get paid.Aug 21 14:50
twitterI'll go look again, it was your link...Aug 21 14:50
schestowitzMicrosoft turns SUSE into a cash cow. It needn't even wrote code for it.Aug 21 14:50
twitterI don't think they have made $350 million bucks from it.Aug 21 14:51
twitterHow much did Novell make last year?Aug 21 14:51
twitterIt's repulsive M$ makes a single cent from code they hate.Aug 21 14:52
MinceRit isn't just code they hateAug 21 14:53
twitterI still think the Novell deal is a loser for them.Aug 21 14:53
MinceRit's code they've publicly said all kinds of vile things aboutAug 21 14:53
schestowitztwitter: being "repulsive" does not make something untrue. I've stressed this for ages.Aug 21 14:53
twitterhttp://boycottnovell.com/2006/12...Aug 21 14:56
blackrabbitalways a pleasure, schestowitz, duty callsAug 21 14:57
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twitterIf your figures were right back then, the only way they are making money from Novell is by taking it from others.  I don't see them making a profit even on $600/seat/year.Aug 21 14:59
schestowitzThat brings back memories.Aug 21 15:00
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/12...Aug 21 15:01
schestowitzI show you the bits about royalty payments.Aug 21 15:02
twitterAll very interesting, but I don't see how M$ can make a profit selling a Suse seat that cost them at least $600.Aug 21 15:10
twitterThe money is going to have to come from royalties they will charge everyone in the future if they can pass that trash through US courts.Aug 21 15:11
twitterCanonical and Red Hat are still laughing out loud at M$ Patents.Aug 21 15:12
schestowitzWhose court is it anyway? http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10...Aug 21 15:13
schestowitztwitter: Microsoft leaves them out in the cold to screw them. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/11/mi...Aug 21 15:14
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neighborleeomg, will the FUD never end..these guys went to some school I think for this stuff, and they call US hilarious:: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php... < last post, just before mine..EEK gadzooksAug 21 15:57
neighborleeeven facing facts from a M$ employee they call it fud from that source...OOOOOOK ;)Aug 21 15:57
schestowitzLet me see..Aug 21 15:57
schestowitzThe ending says it's a Mono fan.Aug 21 15:58
neighborleeinterestingly enough,,this person has posted to forums 4 whole times...I smell a rat.Aug 21 15:58
neighborleeof courseAug 21 15:58
schestowitzHe also seems to know the background to this, suggesting that he defended Mono before.Aug 21 15:58
schestowitzWhat are the other posts.Aug 21 15:58
schestowitz?Aug 21 15:59
neighborleeatm , thats itAug 21 15:59
neighborleeI was just a bit surprised he is caling FUD on a M$ employee's own words LOLAug 21 16:00
neighborleeoh,,I was just referring to the post prior to that, being mine, which he  r esponded to LOLAug 21 16:00
neighborleehttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-1... < he called this M$ FUD ..talk about  wanting cake and eat it too;0Aug 21 16:01
schestowitzWhat other messages did he post?Aug 21 16:01
neighborleeoh thatAug 21 16:01
schestowitzYou can search by username on that site.Aug 21 16:01
neighborleewellAug 21 16:01
neighborleeyesAug 21 16:01
schestowitzIf all he ever does is defend Mono, then it could be a 'mole'.Aug 21 16:01
neighborleeI just noted, that he only posted 3 other times other than this one, so to me I suspect a mono rat ...Aug 21 16:01
neighborleeyes thats what I meantAug 21 16:01
schestowitzCan you see these 3 posts?Aug 21 16:02
neighborleeyes ill checkAug 21 16:02
neighborleehttp://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?s...Aug 21 16:02
TallkenlolAug 21 16:03
neighborleeROFLAug 21 16:03
neighborleeyup I was rightAug 21 16:03
Tallkenjust Mono related threadsAug 21 16:03
neighborleeMOLE CITYAug 21 16:03
neighborleehhahahAug 21 16:03
neighborleeohhh boycottnovell got a noteworthy mention from our dear mole ;)Aug 21 16:03
neighborleebravo schestowitz  heheAug 21 16:03
schestowitzWhere?Aug 21 16:06
schestowitzI need to URLs to show this.Aug 21 16:07
schestowitzOne posts per 2 months, all about Mono. In-tres-tingAug 21 16:07
neighborleehttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread....Aug 21 16:08
neighborleeIt's mostly all mole posts,,but there was one guy/gal ? who posted a sane rebuttle, userid I think it isAug 21 16:09
neighborlee2nd page I thikAug 21 16:09
neighborlee..thinkAug 21 16:09
neighborleeyupAug 21 16:10
schestowitzCan you give me the URLs please. I want to point this out in BN.comAug 21 16:11
Tallkenthere is one thread where he posted several timesAug 21 16:11
neighborleewhich  url do you wishAug 21 16:11
Tallken1stAug 21 16:12
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=563526...Aug 21 16:12
neighborleethe one I gave , is the thread about boycottnovellAug 21 16:12
Tallken2ndAug 21 16:12
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=51...Aug 21 16:12
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5...Aug 21 16:12
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.ph...Aug 21 16:13
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p...Aug 21 16:13
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.ph...Aug 21 16:13
Tallken3rdAug 21 16:13
neighborleeI saw that one yes, but I xeroed in on the boycottnvell thread is allAug 21 16:13
neighborleezeroed lolAug 21 16:13
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5136257...Aug 21 16:14
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=51...Aug 21 16:14
Tallken4thAug 21 16:14
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4683...Aug 21 16:14
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4684425...Aug 21 16:14
Tallkenhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=...Aug 21 16:14
Tallken---Aug 21 16:15
Tallkenthe endAug 21 16:15
schestowitzThanks!Aug 21 16:15
Tallken€«I do C# programming on Linux for a living using Mono, so there are definitely jobs out there - and more companies seem to be moving to Mono every week if you pay attention to the Mono mailing lists.€»Aug 21 16:15
schestowitz*LOL*Aug 21 16:15
Tallken-- by alternatealiasAug 21 16:15
schestowitzSo he's defending his pocket.Aug 21 16:15
neighborleegotta love the nick LOL!!Aug 21 16:15
schestowitzIt's like asking Microsoft if Windows has problems.Aug 21 16:16
neighborleeyup,,I suspect they ALL are.Aug 21 16:16
neighborleeLOLAug 21 16:16
schestowitzI'll copy this and post about this later. I've got to run to the gym now.Aug 21 16:17
neighborleeok have a great WOAug 21 16:17
schestowitzTa.Aug 21 16:18
*neighborlee considers wiifit WO <grins>Aug 21 16:18
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twitterMoles often do more than talk about their one topic.  They are bright enough to know they need to "round out" their pen names.  What you have to look for is a pattern of posting behavior and ignore the fluff.Aug 21 16:29
neighborleealso when someone posts but a few times since joining ( in 2004) its a clear sign he/she is doing so on a emotinal level...my assumption :L)Aug 21 16:30
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lucianhelloAug 21 16:44
neighborleehi thereAug 21 16:45
lucianohAug 21 16:45
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neighborleeo_0Aug 21 16:45
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self_liarhelloAug 21 16:47
neighborleehi there liar ;)Aug 21 16:47
self_liarhello neighAug 21 16:47
neighborleelolAug 21 16:47
self_liarneighborlee: I was thinkingAug 21 16:47
self_liarneighborlee: have dot gnu  patent problems?Aug 21 16:47
neighborleeI have no ideaAug 21 16:48
self_liarneighborlee: maybe roy know about thisAug 21 16:49
neighborleehe isn't here atm.Aug 21 16:49
self_liarneighborlee: i knowAug 21 16:49
neighborleeahAug 21 16:49
self_liarneighborlee: so ,the big problemAug 21 16:51
self_liarneighborlee: is about people loving novell because the good will in help the linux foundationAug 21 16:51
neighborleeI think part of it is people not taking time to look into problems facing fossAug 21 16:52
neighborleethey just assume its 'safe' if a given distro adopts it.Aug 21 16:52
neighborleewhich illistrates the importance of good leadership p)(Aug 21 16:53
neighborleeillustratesAug 21 16:53
neighborleehowever, it all might hopefully backware on M$, due to fedora livecd's removal of mono ;)Aug 21 16:53
neighborleeI haven't tried livedvd so I dont know,,at least on some front fedora is  answering the call .Aug 21 16:54
neighborleeconsidering redhat themselves, never adopted mono, I guess it was just a matter of time ;)Aug 21 16:54
self_liarneighborlee: yesAug 21 16:56
self_liarneighborlee: People assumes which novell and other companies are necessary for GNU linuxAug 21 16:57
self_liarneighborlee: People think that without these companies, Linux would not be good enough.Aug 21 16:59
self_liarneighborlee:I do not believe itAug 21 16:59
neighborleeI think linux would be just fine,,I dont know enough history of NOVEL, to really make a educated comment, but overall yeah I think your prob. rightAug 21 17:00
neighborleea really , odd thing I just thought aboutAug 21 17:00
self_liarneighborlee:Many things done in linux not serve get nothing in the area of desktop. Many things are not necessary for the desktopAug 21 17:01
neighborleenovel bought out suse, and next the M$/novel deal came..( was that the order ?),,,isnt that what M$ does , buy out to remove competition ? HmmmmmmmmAug 21 17:01
self_liarneighborlee:Aug 21 17:02
self_liar"Oh not speak badly of their novell idiot! They help that most everyone! Shut up"Aug 21 17:02
self_liarportuguêsAug 21 17:02
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self_liar Aug 21 17:02
self_liar€»Aug 21 17:02
self_liaringlêsAug 21 17:02
self_liar Aug 21 17:02
self_liarTraduzirAug 21 17:02
self_liarAug 21 17:02
neighborleeare you ok thre self liar ??Aug 21 17:02
neighborleehaving keyboard issues ?Aug 21 17:02
self_liarneighborlee: oops ,sorry ,google translation error!Aug 21 17:02
neighborleeahhhh ic ;)Aug 21 17:03
self_liarneighborlee: "Oh not speak badly of  novell ,your idiot! They help that most everyone!Aug 21 17:03
twitterFree software does not need companies, but there's no reason companies can't use free software.Aug 21 17:04
self_liartwitter: yes ,but people think this wayAug 21 17:04
twitterFree software works best when everyone can participate without harming the freedom of others.Aug 21 17:04
twitterpeople learn sooner or laterAug 21 17:05
neighborleetwitter, exactlyAug 21 17:05
neighborleetwitter, thats why I love gtk vs qt..not a flame over the two, just adding voice to your comment as it applies to use of foss.Aug 21 17:05
neighborleeone offers total freedom while the other almost ;)Aug 21 17:06
neighborleefoss an companies...most prefer gtk/gnome ( as I've read anyway) because of fact its not a financial burden..im not entirely sure of  how many do, but I suspect its high.Aug 21 17:07
twitterM$ is fighting the truth itself, that's not a war they can win by perception management.  I have not kept up with gtk and qt.  Gnome's move into mono is disturbing.Aug 21 17:07
twitterFree software is a winner because the cost of entry is low and the rewards are large.Aug 21 17:07
neighborleeI totally agree about your ending commenrt twitterAug 21 17:07
neighborleeit worries me mu ch as well.Aug 21 17:07
neighborleealot.Aug 21 17:07
neighborleeI even thought about forking gnome because of itAug 21 17:08
neighborleeif they dont stop, I willl.Aug 21 17:08
neighborleethat or someone will,,if its not be done already.Aug 21 17:08
self_liartwitter: I believe that the LF chose make money from Linux, but this involves a  moral and ethical costAug 21 17:08
twitterNot if they respect user freedom.Aug 21 17:08
self_liartwitter: Yes ,according with license,they do thisAug 21 17:09
twitterCompanies don't have to make money through highway robbery.Aug 21 17:09
self_liartwitter: but for them all is technical decisions and who gives more power over linuxAug 21 17:09
self_liartwitter: the license does not change, but the etic and moral doAug 21 17:10
twitterSooner or later, companies with bad reputations lose their customers.Aug 21 17:10
MinceRi think both qt and gtk are in danger nowAug 21 17:10
twitterWith free software, it can happen sooner.Aug 21 17:10
MinceRthough gtk less soAug 21 17:10
twitterSomeone will fork it if there are real problems.Aug 21 17:10
MinceRthey can do that with gtk but not with qtAug 21 17:11
twitterWhy not?Aug 21 17:11
MinceR(the qt fork will not be usable for non-gpl projects and i think that's a problem with such a basic library)Aug 21 17:11
MinceR(unless of course it happens because nokia officially discontinues qt)Aug 21 17:12
twitterthe problem is with non-gpl projects :)Aug 21 17:12
neighborleeI had no idea qt fork was  on horizon..is that even legal o_0Aug 21 17:12
neighborleeerr fork I guess of 'free' side but still..odd but interesting ;0-Aug 21 17:13
twitterAny free software project can be forked, but there has to be a good reason.  I'm not aware of any good reasons to fork qt.Aug 21 17:13
MinceRa desktop that can't run non-gpl apps legally wouldn't be practicalAug 21 17:13
neighborleeyesAug 21 17:13
MinceRi'm afraid nokia will provide a reason eventuallyAug 21 17:13
MinceRif for no other reason then because they get a nice sum of money from microsoftAug 21 17:13
twitterWhat's missing from gpl land?Aug 21 17:14
MinceRAAA-category games, for exampleAug 21 17:14
twitterSo?Aug 21 17:14
neighborleeindeed..huge gapAug 21 17:14
neighborleeway hugeAug 21 17:14
MinceRand highly specialized apps that don't have a great developer communityAug 21 17:14
neighborleewell..its clear,,,wineAug 21 17:14
MinceRand non-gpl opensource appsAug 21 17:14
neighborleewill be highly used for sometime ;)Aug 21 17:14
neighborleefor  things in which it works anyway ;))Aug 21 17:15
twitterFree software does everything I need.Aug 21 17:15
neighborleeyour lucky thenAug 21 17:15
MinceRgpl != free softwareAug 21 17:15
neighborleeIm working on it, but I have a ways to goAug 21 17:15
MinceRthere's gpl-incompatible free software, you knowAug 21 17:15
neighborleeMinceR, no, but its that very thing that allows freedom from opression sometimes ;)Aug 21 17:15
MinceRi knowAug 21 17:16
MinceRbut that doesn't mean that basic libraries should be legally barred from useAug 21 17:16
self_liarWhy intel blocks the installation of an alternative BIOS?Aug 21 17:16
neighborleeits not intelAug 21 17:16
twitterCopy left and free software are both free software.  Copy left is best for the community but free software is usable.Aug 21 17:16
MinceRnot even all copyleft is gplAug 21 17:16
self_liarneighborlee: Who?Aug 21 17:17
twitterSo?Aug 21 17:17
neighborleeself_liar, unless this is something new ive not heard ofAug 21 17:17
MinceRso what you're advocating would make it illegal to run some copyleft, opensourced apps and some non-copyleft opensourced appsAug 21 17:17
self_liarneighborlee: FSF does not use intel chipsetsAug 21 17:17
MinceR(i'm not sure about the latter category actually)Aug 21 17:17
neighborleeself_liar, I find that slightly hypocriticalAug 21 17:18
self_liarneighborlee: why?Aug 21 17:18
neighborleeself_liar, I mean at least they do offer mostly oss gpu's...we can't get it all immediately ;)Aug 21 17:18
self_liarneighborlee: intel is very smartAug 21 17:19
neighborleepersonally I use amd, but hey lolAug 21 17:21
neighborleeI almost considered ati though,,but I caved and stuck with my new 8800 GTX <G>Aug 21 17:21
neighborleewhen I learned I could force 8800 to do hdr + AA, I stuck tight --Aug 21 17:22
self_liarneighborlee: Intel is very agressive sometimes, a long time intel join forces with microsoftAug 21 17:22
self_liarneighborlee: but in gnu linux it does not matterAug 21 17:22
neighborleehmm I missed something then yesAug 21 17:23
neighborleehow did they joinAug 21 17:23
neighborleewhen]Aug 21 17:23
self_liarneighborlee: roy did some articles, intel -m$ forces negroponteAug 21 17:23
neighborleeahAug 21 17:24
neighborlee I search itAug 21 17:24
neighborleeI'llAug 21 17:24
neighborleethxAug 21 17:24
self_liarneighborlee: A playstation 2 emulator is very slow ,even in most actual machinesAug 21 17:24
self_liarself_liar: AA  is not so important in GNU LinuxAug 21 17:26
self_liarneighborlee:  AA  is not so important in GNU LinuxAug 21 17:26
*kentma (n=user@host86-152-100-228.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 17:28
self_liarkentma: hello kentmaAug 21 17:31
self_liarkentma: do you know about dot gnu has envolved in patents?Aug 21 17:31
neighborleeNow I totally understand why gpl3 was invented, if I didn't quite earlier..Aug 21 17:55
neighborleeThe Microsoft/Novell Patent Covenant circumvented this GPLv2 restriction in a manner which most people consider to violate the spirit of the GPL, if not the precise wording. Novell did not negotiate a license for themselves and therefore was not required by the GPL to pass that license on to everyone. What they did was negotiate a license that was valid only for Novell customers.Aug 21 17:55
*libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 17:56
neighborleelibervisco, hi there ;0Aug 21 17:56
self_liarneighborlee: please ,if you understand everything ,explain meAug 21 17:57
neighborleewell its just the reason to be for gpl3..hey LOL that rhymed, im so hipAug 21 17:58
neighborleebasicallly , simply that gpl3 will protect from abuse of gpl2Aug 21 17:58
neighborleeala make such pacts of novel and M$ as example, impossibleAug 21 17:58
self_liarneighborlee: oh ,of course,but the detail I don understandAug 21 17:59
self_liarneighborlee: why gpl blocks this contracts?Aug 21 18:00
neighborleegpl3 willAug 21 18:00
neighborleeit willl block allowed use of gpl if patent is intendedAug 21 18:00
self_liarneighborlee: sorry , wrong questionAug 21 18:00
neighborleenpAug 21 18:00
self_liarneighborlee: HOW GPL blocks this contractsAug 21 18:01
neighborleehttp://gplv3.fsf.org/Aug 21 18:01
self_liarneighborlee: ah , ok, I will read, thanksAug 21 18:02
neighborleeywAug 21 18:02
self_liarneighborlee: did you find some article about intel-m$?Aug 21 18:02
neighborleenopeAug 21 18:02
neighborleewas busy reading, and checking for molesAug 21 18:02
neighborleehahaAug 21 18:02
self_liarneighborlee: heh okAug 21 18:02
neighborleedain things are peskyAug 21 18:03
benJImanI see boycottnovell is linked here http://opensource.org/node/363Aug 21 18:06
self_liardamnAug 21 18:09
self_liarseems the cursed OOXML has been approvedAug 21 18:09
twitterwhat ?Aug 21 18:11
self_liarhttp://www.iso.org/iso/press...Aug 21 18:12
neighborleelaughableAug 21 18:17
neighborleecan anyone say, stacked deck LOL ;))Aug 21 18:17
twitteroh, that.  it was a scandal and there's time for appeals.Aug 21 18:17
neighborleeits like our system for appointing  supreme court justicesAug 21 18:18
neighborleetalk about stacked ;)Aug 21 18:18
neighborleeSam's message to the audience, which included leading open source companies, open source project leaders, board members, venture capitalists, etc., is that Microsoft is truly, truly interested in playing nice with the open source community. < OMGosh thast funny ;)Aug 21 18:19
neighborleeman, who did he think he was kidding ?? ;)Aug 21 18:19
neighborleeid love to have been a mouse, looking straight out at audience watching reactions ;)Aug 21 18:19
self_liartwitter: but after the rejection of india and other countries, I don t believe anymoreAug 21 18:20
neighborleebenJIman, ah yes Ic that...sweet ;)Aug 21 18:24
neighborleeyes, the ballmer comment is insurance that clearly signals the mess mono is..we should  continually remind everyone of that .Aug 21 18:26
*lucian (n=lucian@201-68-205-24.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:37
twitterYes, it was really outrageous of them to reject all of the appeals at once, without considering the individual merits of each.  The 2/3rds vote to continue and language problems were also great corruptions.Aug 21 18:37
twitterStill, they can't publish that trash as long as there are appeals.Aug 21 18:37
*lucian (n=lucian@201-68-205-24.dsl.telesp.net.br) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!")Aug 21 18:38
*lucian (n=lucian@201-68-205-24.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:38
*lucian has quit (Remote closed the connection)Aug 21 18:39
*seller_liar (n=lucian@201-68-205-24.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:40
seller_liarheyAug 21 18:40
seller_liarmy identity has been stolenAug 21 18:40
kentmaah, more trolls?Aug 21 18:45
*seller_liar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Aug 21 18:49
*self_liar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 21 18:51
*schestowitz catching upAug 21 18:52
*seller_liar (n=seller@201-68-113-10.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:55
schestowitzSo OSI endorses Boycott Novell now, or at least begins to. It's about time. 2 years late.Aug 21 18:56
seller_liarschestowitz: hey roy ,if you self_liar , don trustAug 21 18:56
schestowitzIntel/Microsoft collusion at http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/0... (answering a question)Aug 21 18:56
seller_liarschestowitz: oh ,thanksAug 21 18:57
seller_liarschestowitz: *if you see self_liar , maybe a trollAug 21 18:57
schestowitzI have lots of stuff stacked for posting and more news to catch up with. The Mono thing is importany.Aug 21 18:57
seller_liarschestowitz: yesAug 21 18:58
schestowitzRe:  ISO and IEC members give go ahead on ISO/IEC DIS 29500 ( http://www.iso.org/iso/... ) : it's not over yet and it's not news. It's from last week.Aug 21 18:58
schestowitzseller_liar: thanks, I'll do a whois.Aug 21 18:59
seller_liarschestowitz: ah ,ok, I'm bit outdated, but I cannot see hope in this caseAug 21 18:59
schestowitzOpenSUSE has just reaches alpha 2 (11.1)Aug 21 19:00
seller_liarschestowitz: I don like suse, Mandriva is a lot better , suse is badAug 21 19:02
schestowitzIt has been a very quiet week for OpenSUSE so far.Aug 21 19:03
PetoKraus:)Aug 21 19:03
*schestowitz uses Mandriva at the moment. Other two PCs don't have Mandriva..Aug 21 19:03
seller_liarschestowitz: mandriva gnome includes mono?Aug 21 19:03
PetoKraushehe. i've been just solving a problem for a friendAug 21 19:04
seller_liarschestowitz: I'm using mandriva kdeAug 21 19:04
schestowitzThis one made me smile (IMG): http://beranger.org/index.php?p...Aug 21 19:04
*schestowitz on Mandriva 2008.1 KDEAug 21 19:04
PetoKraushe's got ubuntu, with WindowsXP vmware folder on the desktop, he had moved the folder to trash and couldn't move it back (too big)Aug 21 19:04
PetoKrausssh & mv save the dayAug 21 19:04
PetoKraushe was like "so, would you come over, or..." "nono, i'll fix it from here" :)Aug 21 19:04
schestowitzJust got mail (SPAM?) from  "Microsoft International Promotions"Aug 21 19:05
seller_liarschestowitz: heheh,funny , very sad,but trueAug 21 19:05
seller_liarschestowitz: a lot of people does not give credit for rmsAug 21 19:05
PetoKrauswell...Aug 21 19:06

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