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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 21st, 2008 - Part I

Enter the IRC channel now

twitterOT, the mechanics of abuse. 21 00:02
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dsmith_hey schAug 21 03:29
dsmith_schestowitz:Aug 21 03:29
dsmith_lolAug 21 03:29
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schestowitzStating the obvious almost 2 years late: 21 06:53
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dsmith_Microsoft may have 2,000 developers working on Windows 7  - 21 06:55
dsmith_Interesting tidbitAug 21 06:55
schestowitzJust more hype and vapourware.Aug 21 06:56
dsmith_I wonder how mnay of those so-called developers are not US citizen's and, if some of them will take 6-months to develop the windows login sound.Aug 21 06:56
dsmith_i knowAug 21 06:57
schestowitzThey still need to make people think about 'tomorrow's Windows', as though it exists. It's intended to freeze the market and it's a form of fraud.Aug 21 06:57
dsmith_Vista, 5 billion dollars to develop and 6-months to choose a login soundAug 21 06:57
dsmith_hehAug 21 06:57
schestowitzYeah, I remember that. Aug 21 06:57
dsmith_i often ask ppl what are you going to use in 10-years? obviously not windows..Aug 21 06:58
schestowitz10 years. I don't think OSes of the current type will exist then.Aug 21 06:58
dsmith_ 21 06:59
dsmith_current type?Aug 21 06:59
dsmith_I dont se them disappearing anytime soonAug 21 06:59
schestowitzVirtual appliances and clouds are likely. You then architecture the O/S to suit it.Aug 21 06:59
dsmith_I still do not see that being a viable c=solutionAug 21 07:00
dsmith_VM apps yesAug 21 07:00
dsmith_clouds, for businesses perhapsAug 21 07:00
dsmith_depends on the size of the compnayAug 21 07:00
schestowitzThey can run their own 'clouds' for privacy.Aug 21 07:01
dsmith_yesAug 21 07:01
schestowitzA lot of Web-based software that didn't exist before is already used in enterprises.Aug 21 07:01
dsmith_i do know that MS is building alot of data centers..Aug 21 07:01
dsmith_web-based...hehe No one at my office understands that..Aug 21 07:02
dsmith_I tried to go that route for a few appsAug 21 07:02
schestowitzMicrosoft is well behind Google. 200,000 servers versus over a million of Google, IIRC.Aug 21 07:02
schestowitzOn Bill Gates' pseudoretirement: 21 07:05
dsmith_200K windows boxes vs Google's custom linux OSAug 21 07:05
dsmith_mS should just focus on one thingAug 21 07:06
schestowitzThey think that just throwing lots of Windows boxes out there is enough, but to get them organised and occupied is the challenge. They can't pull it off too well. Yesterday I posted some links about their spaying on users. Even IE users are tracked by Microsoft everywhere they go. IE is spyware by default. It's a huge security/privacy hazard.Aug 21 07:08
dsmith_oh yesAug 21 07:08
schestowitzdsmith_: they can't focus on one thing because rivers run dry and the cash cows are made redundant over timeAug 21 07:09
schestowitzThey tried hardware (XBox, Zune), they wanted to produce chips 2 years ago, electricity, banking, loans... you name it, Microsoft has tried it or at least thought about it. The company makes money only in wealthy country and it's not as rich as people are lef to believe.Aug 21 07:10
dsmith_trueAug 21 07:11
schestowitz"For instance, Microsoft, the world’s most valuable company, declared a profitAug 21 07:11
schestowitzof $4.5 billion in 1998; when the cost of options awarded that year, plus theAug 21 07:11
schestowitzchange in the value of outstanding options, is deducted, the firm made a lossAug 21 07:11
schestowitzof $18 billion, according to Smithers."Aug 21 07:11
schestowitz 21 07:11
dsmith_this sums it up for me, Microsoft Windows def. "32 bit extensions and a graphical shell [on top of] a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition."Aug 21 07:11
dsmith_i read that so -$18BAug 21 07:12
schestowitzIt's from the Economist (the article above), but it vanished from its source!!Aug 21 07:12
schestowitzAnd that was /before/ the bubble blew.Aug 21 07:12
dsmith_wow, they must have had them pull itAug 21 07:12
schestowitzI don't think so. Too much like it's begging for the 'paranoid' label. Bear in mind that this article was big at the time. Led to quite a stir and cited. Enrons are a scary thing..Aug 21 07:13
dsmith_lolAug 21 07:13
dsmith_yepAug 21 07:13
dsmith_interesting chart 21 07:13
schestowitzIt makes SPs visible.Aug 21 07:15
schestowitzThat's just silly. How much does an SP add? Allchin regretted making XP SPs rather than calling them new releases. 7 is just a Vista SP if it's ever released. It's about escaping a bad name.Aug 21 07:16
dsmith_I was wondering about thatAug 21 07:17
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schestowitzWindows 7 Server to be 'minor release': 21 07:21
schestowitzBill Gates: Windows 7 - Amazing Things - But no clue as to what they actually are : 21 07:21
schestowitzMicrosoft Promises Predictable Schedule for Windows 7: 21 07:21
schestowitzWindows 7: R.I.P. : 21 07:21
schestowitzIs Microsoft Repeating Vista Mistakes with Windows 7? : 21 07:21
schestowitzWindows 7 Shows Microsoft Hasn't Learned Vista Lessons: 21 07:21
schestowitzEight Things About Windows 7: 21 07:21
schestowitzAre These Windows Transparent or Translucent? : we do know about Windows 7: 21 07:21
schestowitzWindows 7: The information lockdown continues: 21 07:21
schestowitzMicrosoft Clears Gates-Induced Confusion about Windows 7: 21 07:21
schestowitzMicrosoft : Windows 7 still in planning stage and will take approximately 3 years to develop: 21 07:21
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schestowitzAnother new one: "So, what are you going to do? I recommend giving desktop Linux or the Mac a serious look. Vista, whether you call it Vista SP2 or Windows 7, is a dead-end operating system. "Aug 21 07:32
PetoKrausheheAug 21 07:37
PetoKraus 21 07:37
PetoKrausshows why recording companies are BAD BADAug 21 07:38
dsmith_i responded to sjvn blogAug 21 07:39
schestowitzIs it them who made torrents for rexises?Aug 21 07:39
schestowitz*remixes?Aug 21 07:39
PetoKrausschestowitz: well, yesAug 21 07:39
*schestowitz thumbs-upped DOUGManAug 21 07:40
PetoKraustheir last album was for free (as in both), the previous album had free sampler (8 tracks out of 36), you could get the whole 36 for 5$Aug 21 07:40
PetoKrausthis vinyl is released by their former recording company though, that's why there is this bitter comment and picture :)Aug 21 07:41
schestowitzHas YouTube Just Been Saved? : 'In the last few months, CBS, Universal Music, Lionsgate, Electronic Arts and other companies have stopped prodding YouTube to remove unauthorized clips of their movies, music videos and other content and started selling advertising against them.' : 21 07:41
schestowitzU2 tracks disappear from YouTube : "U2's manager Paul McGuinness is likely to be unimpressed. He has been highly critical of companies like Apple and ISPs which he described as" providing "burglary kits" allowing people to steal music." : 21 07:41
schestowitzThe price-fixing barriers are being shot down. They have always enjoyed exclusivity i distribution, but the Internet and new artists that can reach the masses end this monopoly.Aug 21 07:43
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schestowitzBritish Government Violates Copyright -- Now Cometh Letter: "As much as I utterly despise the entire premise of Intellectual Monopoly, this is about violating the principles of a Free License, and if it's good enough for the British government to violate our civil rights in the name of Intellectual Monopoly, then it's good enough for the Free World to protect its "property" (in fact Freedom) too…" 21 08:26
schestowitzment_violates_copyrightAug 21 08:26
schestowitz 21 08:27
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schestowitzJust posted in Sutor's blog: What's with the Mono in Second Life. Has SL been taken over by former Softies or something? Please write something about it if you can.Aug 21 08:44
dsmith_mono/Aug 21 08:57
dsmith_?Aug 21 08:57
schestowitzYes.Aug 21 08:58
schestowitzIt's almost as though IBM et al. encourage people to embrace *gasp* .NET and also enable contamination of GNU/Linux.Aug 21 08:59
schestowitzBear in mind that Sutor does not like Mono. I don't know if it's just because of the s/w patents thing or because, as he recently said, it's important to stop copying Windows (or Microsoft).Aug 21 09:00
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PetoKraushehe! greatAug 21 09:24
PetoKrausthat british government thingAug 21 09:24
schestowitzLots of copies were sent, including to Lessig, WordPress' co-founder and others who won't be too happy pappy (even me).Aug 21 09:28
PetoKrausthat's retardedAug 21 09:30
PetoKrausbritish govt is retardedAug 21 09:30
PetoKrausmy friend, he's from london. he lived 3 years in turkey with his father. Then he came back to britainAug 21 09:30
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schestowitzGardon's office is probably as bad as the rest. It just happens to be exposed.Aug 21 09:31
PetoKraushe has to pay for the school in scotland (classifying him as a person not spending last 3 years in the EU)Aug 21 09:31
PetoKrauswhile he's born englishAug 21 09:31
PetoKrausand the best part - he has to pay international fees, which are 12 grand per year (instead of 1.7 grand)Aug 21 09:31
schestowitzFor school? You mean, college/university?Aug 21 09:32
PetoKrausyupAug 21 09:32
schestowitzIt's a mechanism to feed professors and keeping the poor people away from opportunities.Aug 21 09:32
PetoKrausthe irony is - I, as a EU national, don't have to pay a penny. He, as a born englishman, who happened to live part of his life in Turkey, has to pay 12 grand.Aug 21 09:33
schestowitzEU nationals have different fares though.Aug 21 09:35
PetoKrausyes, SAAS pays 1.7k for meAug 21 09:36
PetoKrausi wonder about that guy, mcGuinnessAug 21 09:50
PetoKrausi mean, how can you "steal" music?Aug 21 09:51
schestowitzI've just stolen your messageAug 21 09:51
schestowitz"<PetoKraus> i mean, how can you "steal" music?" BWAHAHAHA!!Aug 21 09:51
PetoKrausoh noes!Aug 21 09:51
schestowitzWell, the point anyway is that it's a matter of perception, education, brainwash.Aug 21 09:52
PetoKrausbut that'd mean i can't use that message again, since if it's stolen i don't have it, right/Aug 21 09:52
schestowitzThat said, there's copyright law, but its extension and change is outdated.Aug 21 09:52
PetoKrausbut... but when you play piano and someone records it, he doesn't violate any copyright lawAug 21 09:52
PetoKrausi mean, i think there wasn't any "copyright notice"Aug 21 09:53
schestowitzA lot of people have come to recognise fair use and sharing of ideas.. Who are we to claim ownership of text that merely mixes (mashup) bits of information we learned?Aug 21 09:53
PetoKrausthat recording seagulls in this area is prohibitedAug 21 09:53
schestowitzMusicians too are merely making use of inspirationsAug 21 09:53
PetoKrausmoreover, i guess the attribution part was satisfied on youtubeAug 21 09:54
schestowitzLet me find something.Aug 21 09:54
PetoKraussoon, they'll prohibit you from taking pictures of buildingsAug 21 09:55
schestowitz 21 09:55
schestowitzThis one is better: 21 09:56
schestowitzPetoKraus: taking photos of stuff is already forbidden (to an extent) in the US. I'm not joking.Aug 21 09:56
PetoKrauswell, yes, it's forbidden for army stuff all around the world, i guessAug 21 09:57
schestowitz 21 09:57
PetoKrausand if you take picture of someone and want to use it commercially, you should have his confirmationAug 21 09:57
schestowitz"Then there’s the Lone Cypress, a tree along California’s famous 17-Mile Drive. It’s probably the most infamous example of someone trying to exert ridiculous intellectual property rights. They must’ve made it sound like a good idea, though, because it seems that the idea of copyrighting trees is catching on."Aug 21 09:57
schestowitzJust found: : "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it, so it's important that Microsoft have a good interoperability story on that front. Linking up with a Linux vendor is a good way to do that," added Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst.Aug 21 10:10
PetoKrausschestowitz: this is good to knowAug 21 10:14
*schestowitz looksAug 21 10:14
schestowitzThe 'right' to see.Aug 21 10:15
PetoKraus;) yesAug 21 10:15
schestowitzThe Aliens are watching us up there in the sky laughing. Trust me, I can tell!! :-)Aug 21 10:16
PetoKraus:) let's sue them, they are infringing some IP rights for sure!Aug 21 10:16
schestowitzOnly if they take satellite images.Aug 21 10:17
schestowitz 29% of Internet Users Buy from Spam: 21 10:22
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blackrabbitI would like to step on a suse ms coupon over and overAug 21 12:03
MinceRi would like to step on steve ballmer over and overAug 21 12:04
blackrabbitlolAug 21 12:04
schestowitzHe has chair.Aug 21 12:04
blackrabbitsomeone should make a theme party called steve ballmer egg paint ballAug 21 12:04
schestowitzIn Microsoft, that is.Aug 21 12:04
schestowitzblackrabbit: there's a site for this.Aug 21 12:04
blackrabbitoh myAug 21 12:04
schestowitz 21 12:05
blackrabbit:PAug 21 12:06
blackrabbitwhy am I not surprisedAug 21 12:06
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schestowitzHave you seen it before?Aug 21 12:08
blackrabbitnoAug 21 12:08
blackrabbitflash, right?Aug 21 12:08
blackrabbitI don't load flash sitesAug 21 12:08
blackrabbitthat would require me using proprietary flashAug 21 12:09
schestowitzYes, indeed.Aug 21 12:12
blackrabbitI can't do that!Aug 21 12:12
blackrabbitdid you read about the recent clipboard issue with flash?Aug 21 12:13
blackrabbitone exampleAug 21 12:13
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blackrabbitschestowitz, last time, I left when you had just mentioned Bilderberg. Now there's an interesting subject.Aug 21 12:15
blackrabbit<schestowitz> Not to mention Gardon and Tony and their connection with the Bilderberg, with which the Gates family too is associated.Aug 21 12:16
schestowitzYes.Aug 21 12:20
*schestowitz got distracted by a post on FSF IndiaAug 21 12:20
schestowitzMelinda goes to these meetings. I don't know about Bill though. They have a chatter down the hallway. That's how business works.Aug 21 12:21
blackrabbitlike Rice and RussiaAug 21 12:22
schestowitzReally? I knew nothing about it. What does she have to do with 'them' (sarcastically speaking)?Aug 21 12:26
blackrabbitI was speaking along the lines of, or hinting at, sending a softer approachAug 21 12:26
schestowitz(Because, you know, in America the 'them' are now the Muslims).Aug 21 12:27
blackrabbitRice and Russia, Melinda and BilderbergAug 21 12:27
schestowitz"Softer" or "Microsoft-softer"?Aug 21 12:27
blackrabbitfor exampleAug 21 12:27
blackrabbitlet's say I was a high profile person in the world of businessAug 21 12:27
blackrabbitlet's say my wife or husband were not so high profileAug 21 12:28
blackrabbitwere I to attend a controversial meeting or newsworthy event some may not agree withAug 21 12:28
blackrabbithow would this be viewed and would the hounds of the world cry out with commentaryAug 21 12:28
blackrabbitvs. my parter goingAug 21 12:28
blackrabbitIMO it's about imageAug 21 12:28
blackrabbitI'm not sure I understand the them and Muslim referenceAug 21 12:29
schestowitzRegarding the former point, see Deborah Majoras (FTC head) and her husband. Aug 21 12:30
schestowitzCoflicting interest, she made a mockery out of the FTC IMHO, then left to join P&GAug 21 12:30
blackrabbitschestowitz have you ever visited America, will you ever?Aug 21 12:30
schestowitzRegarding the latter, in the mind of 'the people', governments try to install some poison.Aug 21 12:30
schestowitzIn the past, the 'they' (bad guys) were the Soviets. Now it's the Muslim world, based on what I've learned. Not my opinion though.Aug 21 12:31
blackrabbitI have not, but I'd surely go if there was something interesting enough to compel me, like the launch of Linux on desktops at all major OEMs. :DAug 21 12:31
trmanco 21 12:33
schestowitzYes, seen it. Asked them about this too.Aug 21 12:33
schestowitzblackrabbit: yes, visited America several times. I have some family there.Aug 21 12:34
blackrabbithow did you like itAug 21 12:34
schestowitzI liked it more when I was younger.Aug 21 12:34
blackrabbitsecondlife, the game?Aug 21 12:35
blackrabbitwhat is the blog post about, is it using mono or something?Aug 21 12:36
schestowitzYes, Mono on the servers.Aug 21 12:37
schestowitzIt's not news to me. I noticed that about a month ago, but now they make a post about it.Aug 21 12:37
schestowitzSince some of the management there had jumped ship, I asked Sutor if some former Softies or something were hired. He doesn't like Mono and hopefully this can be stopped.Aug 21 12:38
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blackrabbitis it just me, or is the MS creep coming from all sides?Aug 21 12:40
blackrabbitmono, silverfish, suezee, etc.Aug 21 12:41
blackrabbitthe FSF could be doing a lot moreAug 21 12:41
schestowitzYes, but it's because they move between company.Aug 21 12:41
blackrabbitI think they need a cerebral kick in the ballsAug 21 12:41
schestowitzI have a must-read for you... to be posted shortly.Aug 21 12:42
schestowitzMicrosoft and VMWare make peace just weeks after Maritz (Micorsofter) took over.Aug 21 12:42
blackrabbitthe badvista site, for one, needs a facelift and more frequently added newsAug 21 12:42
blackrabbitthanksAug 21 12:42
schestowitzThere's potentially more.Aug 21 12:42
schestowitzYesterday I posted a link that was discussed here.Aug 21 12:42
schestowitzlet me find it.Aug 21 12:43
blackrabbitI enjoyed your post a few weeks ago which we discussed in here about corporate "plants"Aug 21 12:43
schestowitzFormer Head of Business Development and M&A for Microsoft Office Live Joins TASER International as Chief Strategy Officer - 21 12:43
schestowitz"Strategy" = buy Microsoft?Aug 21 12:43
schestowitzI saw this with Vodaphone. They just need to plant some execs in decision-making roles. This seems to have been the strategy against XenSource.Aug 21 12:44
blackrabbittaser?Aug 21 12:44
schestowitzTASERAug 21 12:44
schestowitz"TASER International's products protect life. TASER provides advanced Electronic Control Devices (ECDs) for use in the law enforcement, medical, military, corrections, professional security, and personal protection markets. TASER devices use proprietary technology to incapacitate dangerous, combative, or high-risk subjects who pose a risk to law enforcement officers, innocent citizens.."Aug 21 12:44
blackrabbitwhat's the status of Zimbra?Aug 21 12:44
blackrabbitis it the only exchange alternative?Aug 21 12:45
blackrabbitohAug 21 12:45
schestowitzStill alive, bad PR though. The beast is still sweating and dripping and drooling over it.Aug 21 12:45
blackrabbitniceAug 21 12:45
blackrabbitthis reminds me of their (MS) involvement in some grocery store ad targetingAug 21 12:45
blackrabbitdeeper and deeper they goAug 21 12:45
blackrabbitwasn't there something a few months ago about ms and hospitals, tooAug 21 12:45
blackrabbitI could've sworn I read somethingAug 21 12:46
blackrabbitspeaking of PR, schestowitz, it's a shame you don't have more people working directly @ bn, you should write a book and go more high profileAug 21 12:46
schestowitzOh, gosh. Do you already have some Microsoft grocery carts?Aug 21 12:46
schestowitzYes, Microsoft wants medical data too.Aug 21 12:47
schestowitzMaybe while you're out shopping your banner will display prescription/medication recommended based on your medical records. And the strangers go past watching...Aug 21 12:47
schestowitz   Microsoft Responds To Congress: Hey, We Could Be Worse!Aug 21 12:48
schestowitz,m...  Microsoft tracks people with RFID tagsAug 21 12:48
blackrabbitlolAug 21 12:48
schestowitzAll from yesterday. Another one: Microsoft: Of Course We Spy On Our Web Users. But Not As Much As The Other GuysAug 21 12:48
schestowitz"Wah wah wah!! He started it!!!111"Aug 21 12:48
schestowitzMicrosoft owes a lot to Google. Google permitted Microsoft to sink to new moral grounds and give Orwell the middle finger.Aug 21 12:49
blackrabbitI'm surprised a company exists to balance the MS elementAug 21 12:53
schestowitzYou probably want to watch the video in this new post (seconds old): 21 12:54
blackrabbitthanksAug 21 12:54
blackrabbitI appreciate your use of oggAug 21 12:54
blackrabbitwhat program(s) do you use for your video creation?Aug 21 12:55
schestowitzOn to the Maritz article.Aug 21 12:55
schestowitzI use ffmpegAug 21 12:55
blackrabbitohAug 21 12:56
trmanco 21 12:56
blackrabbithave you tried winff? it's available for linux, too, despite the nameAug 21 12:56
schestowitztrmanco: thanks for that.Aug 21 13:00
schestowitzI have it in my text file for some editing and posting in about an hour.Aug 21 13:00
schestowitzblackrabbit: is it for editing? I only ever transcode.Aug 21 13:00
trmancoyou're welcome :)Aug 21 13:01
blackrabbit    "Convert your videos quickly, easily, and all at once with WinFF and FFmpeg. WinFF is a GUI for the command line video converter, FFMPEG. It will convert most any video file that FFmpeg will convert. WinFF does multiple files in multiple formats at one time. You can for example convert mpeg's, flv's, and mov's, all into avi's all at once. WinFF is available for Windows 95, 98 , ME, NT, XP, and VISTA, DebAug 21 13:01
blackrabbitian, Ubuntu, and Redhat based GNU/Linux distributions."Aug 21 13:01
blackrabbitappears to be a converterAug 21 13:01
schestowitzI think I have it bookmarked, unless it's something else. The CLI is quicker for me.Aug 21 13:02
schestowitzAlso keeps things private, in case I transcode copyrighted things, which I don't.Aug 21 13:02
schestowitzOh wait.Aug 21 13:02
schestowitzI didn't follow the URL and I thought it was Web-based.Aug 21 13:03
blackrabbithell noAug 21 13:03
blackrabbitI'd never recommend one of thoseAug 21 13:03
schestowitzEither way, in the past I used PyTube, but it wasn't good the last time I tried it. Google moved goalposts or something./Aug 21 13:03
blackrabbitWinFF appears to be a frontend for ffmpegAug 21 13:04
blackrabbitI installed it but I've not tried it since installing :/Aug 21 13:04
blackrabbitgive it a try, it could speed things up for youAug 21 13:05
blackrabbitI resort to using wine for some convertersAug 21 13:05
blackrabbitsome free converters found at sourceforgeAug 21 13:06
blackrabbitwish they were ported to nix but what can you doAug 21 13:06
blackrabbitI'm giving reactos a try now and then tooAug 21 13:06
blackrabbitit works well in qemu but it has a long way to go IMOAug 21 13:06
schestowitzHmmm... if only I was feeling slow with ffmpegAug 21 13:07
schestowitzIt's really in bash history or a copy-and-paste job for me.Aug 21 13:08
schestowitzI have a good workflow as it is. I edit all my posts in Kate, which is a development tool (editor). :-)Aug 21 13:08
blackrabbitI used to do it that way, tooAug 21 13:08
blackrabbitfor most purposes ffmpeg at CLI works wellAug 21 13:08
blackrabbitoh, you use KDE? or KDE4?Aug 21 13:09
schestowitz3.5.9Aug 21 13:10
schestowitzCan you recommend a good HTML editor?Aug 21 13:10
blackrabbitniceAug 21 13:10
blackrabbitKate? :DAug 21 13:10
schestowitzI'll use 4.x, but I just worry about having an NVidia GPU.Aug 21 13:11
blackrabbitI don't edit HTML, sorry IDKAug 21 13:11
schestowitzThe Plasma guy (Aarons's colleague) last complained about NVidia's latest drivers (beta, IIRC) yesterday.Aug 21 13:11
blackrabbitI'd worry too, proprietary software and allAug 21 13:12
blackrabbitwell beta software is beta :DAug 21 13:12
*blackrabbit whispers winff to schestowitz several timesAug 21 13:13
blackrabbittry it try it try itAug 21 13:13
blackrabbityou want to try itAug 21 13:13
blackrabbitI don't know why they call it winff when its available for linuxAug 21 13:14
blackrabbityou think he'd change the name for the linux versionAug 21 13:14
schestowitzHow will it improve my workflow. Also, ffmpeg is more universal. I can have it hop between distros and work many years from now.Aug 21 13:17
schestowitzIs winff even on the repos? Is it GPL?Aug 21 13:17
MinceR141401 <@schestowitz> Can you recommend a good HTML editor?Aug 21 13:17
MinceRgvim :>Aug 21 13:17
schestowitz*GASP* My knees buckle when I hear "vim"Aug 21 13:17
schestowitzI can't even remember the strokes for "save file" anymore.Aug 21 13:18
schestowitz(Been a long while since I lost X).Aug 21 13:18
MinceR:w filenameAug 21 13:18
MinceRor use the menu or the toolbar :>Aug 21 13:18
MinceR(or just :w if it has a name already)Aug 21 13:18
schestowitzDoes it do tabbling with multiple open files? I think it does, but...Aug 21 13:19
MinceRyes it doesAug 21 13:22
blackrabbitis winff gpl, yes I think so you can compile it yourselfAug 21 13:23
blackrabbitis it in the repos?Aug 21 13:23
blackrabbitdont know about all but it should be soon if not yetAug 21 13:23
blackrabbitthe guy released a version for linux several months agoAug 21 13:23
Tallken 21 13:23
Tallkennotice the brand of Ballmer's laptopAug 21 13:23
Tallken........................Aug 21 13:23
MinceRwell, m$ owns part of crapple, don't they?Aug 21 13:24
MinceRand they're the same kind of bastards, it's just that crapple isn't that successfulAug 21 13:24
Tallkendon't knowAug 21 13:24
Tallkenand to be honestAug 21 13:24
TallkenApple has BootcampAug 21 13:24
Tallkeneven soAug 21 13:24
Tallkenit's... well...Aug 21 13:24
*Tallken searching for approppriate wordAug 21 13:25
MinceRthe bootcamp that was broken by an upgrade ;)Aug 21 13:25
TallkenI can't find a wordAug 21 13:25
Tallkenbut this explains my point of view, more or lessAug 21 13:25
Tallken 21 13:25
Tallken("Voting Machines")Aug 21 13:26
schestowitzI hope the quotes at the bottom of will at least open some eyes.Aug 21 13:27
blackrabbit 21 13:28
TallkenhumAug 21 13:29
Tallkendon't get itAug 21 13:29
TallkenI know AOL sucksAug 21 13:30
Tallkenbut... ?Aug 21 13:30
MinceRi prefer 21 13:30
blackrabbithaAug 21 13:32
TallkenROFLAug 21 13:32
TallkenEverybody has a Mac nowAug 21 13:32
PetoKraus:DAug 21 13:32
schestowitzA lot of people have a Linux partition.Aug 21 13:33
Tallkenpersonally I liked Macs until I started chatting with Mac usersAug 21 13:33
Tallkennice peopleAug 21 13:33
Tallkenbut fan boysAug 21 13:33
Tallkennow I know I'd become like themAug 21 13:33
TallkensoAug 21 13:33
schestowitz :Aug 21 13:33
MinceRthankfully i don't have any crapple productsAug 21 13:33
Tallkencheap PC laptop :DAug 21 13:33
schestowitz""There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it, so it's important that Microsoft have a good interoperability story on that front. Linking up with a Linux vendor is a good way to do that," added Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst."Aug 21 13:33
Tallkenfor meAug 21 13:33
MinceRi don't even know why macs exist -- they're designed for people so stupid they can't benefit from having a computer in the first placeAug 21 13:34
Tallken<schestowitz> A lot of people have a Linux partition. :: well I have to agree with Linux Hater thereAug 21 13:36
Tallkenhttp://linuxhaters.blogsp...Aug 21 13:36
Tallken€« But the best part is that it confuses OSStards. It makes them cry. "Oh my god! it's so~~ non-free! but it's so~~ pretty. Oh I know! let me buy a Mac, and then run Linux on it. That'll show them!" €»Aug 21 13:36
MinceRyeah, let's praise crapple for stealing code from the FLOSS community that its authors were naive enough to license under the BSD licenseAug 21 13:37
TallkenMinceR: well they can do itAug 21 13:37
MinceRpart of what makes human "civilization" hell is that people think that being assholes to others makes them coolAug 21 13:38
TallkenMinceR: what annoys me is the massive migration of Linux Users to MacAug 21 13:38
MinceRthere is such a migration?Aug 21 13:38
TallkenyesAug 21 13:38
MinceRbut then again i wouldn't expect a single word making sense from a blog called "linuxhaters" anywayAug 21 13:39
TallkenMinceR: but don't you agree with him there?Aug 21 13:39
Tallkenin the line I quoted?Aug 21 13:39
MinceRi don'tAug 21 13:39
TallkenWell schestowitz believes he can be part of some discredibility campaignAug 21 13:40
MinceRi don't think it happens to most "OSStards"Aug 21 13:40
Tallkenand he has criticized BoycottNovell onceAug 21 13:40
schestowitzWhile writing my current post I notice this:Aug 21 13:40
schestowitz :Dell joins Microsoft Linux 'protection' dealAug 21 13:40
TallkenHe has made some fairly rational critics in the pastAug 21 13:40
schestowitzNotice the date. It happened a week or so before the attack on Linux...Aug 21 13:41
Tallkenthough now he is just posting Links and writing rantsAug 21 13:41
Tallkenwhat attack on Linux?Aug 21 13:41
MinceRmost people who use FLOSS have the brains to realize that if they wanted that crappy gaudy osx look, they have lots of ways to get it in xAug 21 13:41
schestowitzAlso... watch what Perens said about H-P sort of receiving an advanced warning about SCO's attack. It came from a Microsoft document.Aug 21 13:41
schestowitzI think we may be on to something here because the Dell agreement above was always fuzzy.Aug 21 13:41
TallkenMinceR: they don't the trouble to configure itAug 21 13:42
TallkenanywayAug 21 13:42
Tallkenme lunchAug 21 13:42
schestowitzMinceR: the migration is mythical and exaggerated by Mac fans like Asay.Aug 21 13:42
TallkencyaAug 21 13:42
MinceRsadly knowing that wouldn't have prevented me from buying this piece-of-shit dell laptop as i did it before thatAug 21 13:42
Tallkenschestowitz, MinceR, have you seen photos of Firefox Launch Party?Aug 21 13:43
MinceRnopeAug 21 13:43
TallkenI could only see people with MacsAug 21 13:43
MinceRschestowitz: i figured.Aug 21 13:43
TallkenI know it was ONE photo onlyAug 21 13:43
schestowitzTallken: haven't seen a photoAug 21 13:43
Tallkenbut only MacsAug 21 13:43
TallkenI was trying to find itAug 21 13:43
schestowitzYes, that's well known though.Aug 21 13:43
MinceRif they all use macs, how come windows is the platform they support best?Aug 21 13:44
schestowitzDon't fall into the vortex of Mac and the myths.Aug 21 13:44
MinceRoh, i know... perhaps they all run vista on those macs!Aug 21 13:44
TallkenroflAug 21 13:45
Tallkendon't knowAug 21 13:45
TallkenanywayAug 21 13:45
Tallkenme goneAug 21 13:45
TallkenlunchAug 21 13:45
schestowitzA Mac is a PC. It's a computer. Mac OS X is BSD... with some layer that's all proprietary. So these Mac vs PC discussions are overly simplified, IMHO.Aug 21 13:49
schestowitzBSD is very liberal and it's no threat to GNU/Linux but a friend. The key lies in educating Mac users that programs like Firefox and Thunderbird exist and that they work on cheaper and better platforms too.Aug 21 13:50
MinceRa mac is a crappy pc with one of the lamest os-es preinstalledAug 21 13:51
MinceRalso, overpricedAug 21 13:51
MinceRand yes, crapple ads have made their fans forget that macs are PCs and that what they refer to as "PC" is actually windows.Aug 21 13:51
MinceRBSD is not a threat to GNU/Linux, it's a threat to itselfAug 21 13:52
MinceRand the BSD community is a threat to BSD tooAug 21 13:52
schestowitz*LOL* Well, it's the OpenBSD people that are fearsome. They follow a rebellious man who got kicked from FreeBSD I'm told... it's not a bad think though.Aug 21 13:54

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