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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 11th, 2008


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schestowitzNovell and Microsoft are kissing again: 11 06:51
kentmaNovell is clearly Microsoft's route into Linux.  We've debated, several times, over the last 5-6 years that Microsoft would have to adopt linux in the end, but that their own culture would prevent them.  Buying Novell in this way probably makes it all possible for them, whilst retaining their wonderful corporate culture.Sep 11 07:07
schestowitzWatch this too: 11 07:08
schestowitz"Government officials in charge of collecting billions of dollars worth of royalties from oil and gas companies accepted gifts, steered contracts to favored clients and engaged in drug use and illicit sex with employees of the energy firms, federal investigators reported yesterday. "Sep 11 07:08
kentmayeah, this is pretty much how it works...Sep 11 07:11
schestowitzIt's more serious too because it results in deaths, not just lost of (digital) freedom). Stevens received some BRIBE^H^H^H^HGIFTS and he was involved in the fight to ruin the Web.Sep 11 07:12
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schestowitzChief Microsoft critic in not-so-top condition: 11 13:45
neighborleeouch..well I remember the orthodontic part, some of the worst pain I think I ever experienced heh ;)Sep 11 13:56
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schestowitzHere is a dodgy new headline from Paul McDougall , insinuating that Microsoft changed its stance on standards (never mind the self benefit): 11 15:09
schestowitzMore bribes in congress: 11 15:42
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_Doughi peeps with no girlfriend ...Sep 11 16:42
schestowitzWelcome to you too, peep with underscoreSep 11 16:43
EruaranhelloSep 11 16:46
schestowitzEruaran: I posted about Acer yesterday.Sep 11 16:48
_Doughi there it's a pragma directive, for those of you old enough to know what that is .. :)Sep 11 16:48
Eruaranschestowitz: oh ? I didnt noticeSep 11 16:48
schestowitz 11 16:48
schestowitzThat's the radical view on it anyway (I don't know who this guy is, but he likes the site): 11 16:49
EruarantySep 11 16:50
_DougI just saw a Linux acer in Comet ..Sep 11 16:50
schestowitzI see them many times when I go past Maplin. They have their own Linux gadget-laptop.Sep 11 16:51
schestowitzIt won't be described as "Linux" though, let alone GNU/Linux. It's an appliance, but that still shows how FOSS hits the mainstream.Sep 11 16:52
_DougYea, it's totally hidden .. even the bootup sequence don't show anything ..Sep 11 16:53
schestowitzSplash screens, if the boot isn't instance.Sep 11 16:53
schestowitz*instantSep 11 16:53
_DougBoots to a usable screen in seconds, they even have AV on it and a 'My Documents' folder .. :)Sep 11 16:53
EruaranHas anyone seen Asus' 'Express Gate' ?Sep 11 16:56
EruaranYou have to have Windows to install it.Sep 11 16:56
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schestowitzIsn't is preinstalled in most cases?Sep 11 16:57
EruaranIf you want that 'instant on' option, there is only an XP or Vista installer. Nothing else. So, you can't install this Splashtop, GNU/Linux based environment without Microsoft Windows installed.Sep 11 16:57
schestowitzEruaran: it'll come on all ASUS mobos, unless Microsoft continues pressuring ASUS. All laptops will have it as standard. Dell moves in the same direction.Sep 11 16:58
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EruaranRetail or OEM, there are only XP and Vista installers.Sep 11 16:59
schestowitzI can find you the links BTW, including  Microsoft's dirty tricks against it.Sep 11 16:59
schestowitzI think both, but I'm not sure.Sep 11 16:59
schestowitzSome mobos will boot into it while other OSes like Windows start up in a 'sandbox'Sep 11 17:00
EruaranOur company has started offering systems with the new Asus mobo's with Express Gate. Ausus has provided no way of installing it without Windows already installed.Sep 11 17:00
schestowitzDoes it not come on the board??Sep 11 17:02
trmanco 11 17:02
schestowitzReminds me of something. Let me checklSep 11 17:02
EruaranNo. Its on the Asus utilities disk.Sep 11 17:03
_DougDo I understand right, 'Express Gate' only comes with Windows already installed ?Sep 11 17:03
schestowitz 11 17:03
_DougOr maybe it's hidden, like BeOS and can only be accessed with a floppy .. :)Sep 11 17:03
Eruaran_Doug: You can't install it without Windows installed first becuase Ausus only provides a Windows installer.Sep 11 17:03
schestowitzThe suspicion is that this < > and this < > might be related to it.Sep 11 17:04
_Doug"Ausus only provides a Windows installer" .. purr of evil~1Sep 11 17:05
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schestowitzIt's definitely something to write about later.Sep 11 17:05
schestowitzThis seems to agree with the earlier suspicions about ASUS going into bed and sharing a fridge with Microsoft. Just like HOVSEPI~1Sep 11 17:06
EruaranIt doesn't appear to be something that is on the motherboard itself, or it can only be enabled from installed software - but either way, it only has a Windows installer.Sep 11 17:06
schestowitzHave you checked with Phoronix yet?Sep 11 17:07
schestowitzHold on. I'll ask there and copy here.Sep 11 17:07
PetoKrausthere's also the thing with ACERsSep 11 17:08
PetoKraustheir laptop's fans require Acer Crapware (tm)(r)(c) to work properlySep 11 17:09
schestowitzWhat about them...?Sep 11 17:09
PetoKrausafter resume from suspend, they refuse to work.Sep 11 17:09
schestowitzThat renders it useless. Do they know?Sep 11 17:09
PetoKrausi guess they doSep 11 17:10
schestowitz 11 17:10
neighborleeNot to be a M$ apologist its obvious I am definitely NOT,,, but I dont think linux is presenting a unfied front quite yet for software installs...maybe its getting there but Im sure on some level it is frustrating for some companies...Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz"From: Bill Gates   Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:41 AM   To: Jeff Westorinen; Ben Fathi  Cc: Carl Stork (Exchange); Nathan Myhrvold; Eric Rudder  Subject: ACPI extensions"Sep 11 17:10
schestowitzBill Gates: "One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn’t try and make the “ACPI” extensions somehow Windows specific. It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work"Sep 11 17:10
schestowitz"and the results is that Linux works great without having to do the work."Sep 11 17:11
PetoKraushehe, it has *just* to support the ACPI properlySep 11 17:12
PetoKraus*has toSep 11 17:12
PetoKrausah darn, this scottish weatherSep 11 17:12
PetoKraussoakin' wetSep 11 17:12
EruaranPerhaps I should complain to the ACCC.Sep 11 17:13
schestowitzNote Nathan Myhrvold there.Sep 11 17:13
schestowitzHe's a patent troll now and Gates invests in him.Sep 11 17:13
EruaranI'm going to note these distortions here in Australia and put it in writing to the ACCC.Sep 11 17:17
schestowitzDon't forget the Victoria incident.Sep 11 17:18
schestowitzContact Brendan Scott for a lawyer's help. He could use the publicity.Sep 11 17:19
EruaranThe schools ? Yes.Sep 11 17:19
schestowitzI think he's also personally involved in the policies.Sep 11 17:19
schestowitz 11 17:20
EruaranI will tySep 11 17:21
EruaranI'm basically sick of itSep 11 17:25
EruaranI can't sit back and watch this any moreSep 11 17:25
EruaranThere's too much blatantly dodgy stuff going onSep 11 17:26
schestowitzYou sound like Stallman.Sep 11 17:26
schestowitzSpeaking of dodgy, 11 17:27
schestowitz"If you didn’t watch the film that served as an introduction to John McCain’s acceptance speech at the RNC, then you didn’t note the subliminal re-writing of history in that film. McCain’s camp managed to tie Iran to Iraq visually. As Jeffrey Feldman writes, “It was a cynical attempt to claim attacks on Americans–1979 and 2001–were carried out by the same ‘enemy.’"Sep 11 17:27
EruaranI think getting the ACCC involved in the Victorian Education issue would be a good thing.Sep 11 17:27
schestowitzHaven't complaints been files /already/? I think I saw something.Sep 11 17:28
EruaranHopefully, but I'm going to add my voice.Sep 11 17:28
EruaranAnd I'm going to also highlight what I'm experiencing as it relates directly to my job as well.Sep 11 17:29
EruaranWith a bit of help hopefully I can make some sort of submission to the ACCC that will illustrate that this is industry wide, it involves anti-competative distortions in the market and consumers don't have any choice.Sep 11 17:30
schestowitzThere's tons that Microsoft does in AUSep 11 17:30
schestowitzI could get you a list of samples. Hold on.Sep 11 17:30
EruaranthanksSep 11 17:31
schestowitzSecond from last here (plus context): 11 17:32
schestowitz 11 17:34
EruaranI will probably work on this over the weekendSep 11 17:35
schestowitzThe PM also censors Wikipedia and the Internet, but I can't find all the right refs. 11 17:35
EruaranI have to get going now (otherwise I know I wont get up in the morning)Sep 11 17:35
schestowitzThis one was another eye opener: 11 17:36
EruaranI need to make my complaint as concise as possible. Clear heading with major points clearly outlined. I don't think the ACCC read longwinded letters.Sep 11 17:37
schestowitzYou could add references.Sep 11 17:37
EruaranYes indeed.Sep 11 17:37
schestowitzSend a parcel with a latter and a donut.Sep 11 17:37
EruaranhehSep 11 17:37
Eruaranbb in about 24 hoursSep 11 17:39
schestowitzHave fun.Sep 11 17:41
_Dougsnooze ... would you like to cancel the current operation ? | press YES, NO or CANCEL ...Sep 11 17:55
schestowitz"No" *and* "cancel" = confusion. Unintuitive MS UI.Sep 11 17:58
schestowitzAlso "Apply"Sep 11 17:58
MinceRYes/No/Cancel/Close/Quit/Discard/OK/Apply/AffirmativeSep 11 17:58
schestowitzGNOME does this the right way: apply immediately.Sep 11 17:58
MinceRat least Yes is first, unlike in retarded gnome and osx.Sep 11 17:59
schestowitz 11 18:02
schestowitzIt's called "implicit save". I didn't remember the name immediately.Sep 11 18:02
schestowitzPermalink: 11 18:02
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_DougImplicit Save: takes gets used to after spending too much time in Windows Land, don't have to click 'are you sure' boxes are restrart the application ..Sep 11 18:16
schestowitzBeen one hour in Phoronix and no activity at all. I asked: "<schestowitz> Hi. I have a query. How come 'Express Gate' has only a Windows installer? Can anyone help, please?" Michael Larabel would know, but he's away.Sep 11 18:17
_DougHow does it work under the hood, sounds like hibernate to me ?Sep 11 18:19
_Dougot: SanFran hunts for rogue 'terminal server' .. :)Sep 11 18:22
_Doug 11 18:22
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_DougSomeone donate a copy of NMAP and Wireshark ..Sep 11 18:23
schestowitztrmanco: what is this < > about?Sep 11 18:23
_Dougot: "they were greeted with what appears to be a router login prompt and a warning message saying "This system is the personal property of Terry S. Childs,""Sep 11 18:24
_Dougdunnno, it's in Spanish ..Sep 11 18:25
trmancosome Microsoft employee that referred to one of my posts about ODF being approved in SwedenSep 11 18:25
schestowitzBetter link than a DDOS attack. ;-)Sep 11 18:27
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schestowitzMicrosoft is very scared of ODF (see how far they went with OOXML corruption) because it makes irrelevant one of the only products from Microsoft that are very profitable.Sep 11 18:28
trmancosame'ol MicrosoftSep 11 18:29
trmancoMicrosoft is desperate, and then they do things that make no sense...Sep 11 18:32
schestowitzODF is not Microsoft-hostile (like Microsoft prefers to portray it). It's pro-fair competition. Competition forces Microsoft to stop overcharging for commodities.Sep 11 18:32
MinceRwell, fair competition is hostile to microsoftSep 11 18:35
MinceRsince microsoft can't compete on fair termsSep 11 18:36
MinceRthey can't produce anything of valueSep 11 18:36
trmanco -> this is funnySep 11 18:36
schestowitz#40 was funnySep 11 18:36
schestowitzSee Alex respondingSep 11 18:37
schestowitzLinux sites linked to him for  laughSep 11 18:37
MinceRwhat's with the "no, this is about xp" lines?Sep 11 18:42
schestowitzYou need t o see the original. It was some kind of Vista advert.Sep 11 18:45
*MinceR checksSep 11 18:45
trmancoschestowitz, Ubuntu 8.10: Compuz-Fusion Cube Deformation €»€» typo error :PSep 11 18:47
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schestowitzIs that in USENET?Sep 11 18:51
trmancoyesSep 11 18:56
trmancoyou copied the original title from the article, I saw that after a posted my last messageSep 11 18:56
schestowitzYes, I copy typos too.Sep 11 18:58
schestowitzThis one is troubling me: 11 19:00
trmancohmmmSep 11 19:31
trmancoI say noSep 11 19:31
trmancoinnovate with microsoft's technologies -- NoSep 11 19:32
schestowitzI'll post about it in 5 second.Sep 11 19:35
schestowitz*Seconds 11 19:35
trmancogoodSep 11 19:41
schestowitz 11 19:54
schestowitz"London Stock Exchange in denial over system outage [...] The LSE absolved its core TradElect platform from blame. The system, designed and built by Accenture, runs on HP ProLiant Servers and Microsoft .Net and SQL Server 2000 systems. Accenture declined to comment on Monday's events. The LSE said, "we won't discuss dealings with our individual suppliers"."Sep 11 19:55
schestowitzCastro just got Ubuntu: 11 20:13
schestowitzI thought he had already died. :-SSep 11 20:14
schestowitzLadislav gets Ubuntu flak: 11 20:16
PetoKraushehe\Sep 11 20:21
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schestowitzFunny quote I've come across twice now: "Linux running in a VM on top of a MS host platform ... because everyone wants to put their Corvette on top of a skateboard." See "Novell plans to offer support for Suse running on Windows. Is there meaning here or is Novell just becoming more of a Microsoft puppet?"Sep 11 20:53
trmanconice quoteSep 11 20:54
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*ChanServ sets ban on *!* 11 21:03
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trmancowhatSep 11 21:04
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MinceRhow much more of a microsoft puppet can novell become anyway?Sep 11 21:05
schestowitzI can't figure out how to remove that.Sep 11 21:05
*schestowitz removes ban on *!* 11 21:06
trmancothey can finally let microsoft but the hole novellSep 11 21:06
MinceR/cs help akickSep 11 21:06
MinceRoopsSep 11 21:06
MinceRschestowitz: /chanserv akick #boycottnovell del benjimanSep 11 21:06
MinceRor something like thatSep 11 21:06
-ChanServ-benJIman` is not on the AKICK list for #boycottnovell.Sep 11 21:06
MinceR(i don't know what the entry is exactly as i can't do /chanserv akick #boycottnovell list)Sep 11 21:07
-ChanServ-*!* has been removed from the AKICK list for #boycottnovell.Sep 11 21:07
schestowitzOkay.Sep 11 21:07
schestowitzXChat only gives a banlist windows, not a kicklist menuSep 11 21:07
schestowitzIt's only days ago that I found the UI bit of it.Sep 11 21:07
*Tallken is at #opensuse-gnome :DSep 11 21:08
TallkenI wonder if I'll get kicked by someone who "whois"es meSep 11 21:09
Tallken:PSep 11 21:09
benjamin:o you must be an openSUSE spy ganging up on these good people.Sep 11 21:09
Tallkenof course I amSep 11 21:09
MinceRschestowitz: i doubt you'll find a gui for chanservSep 11 21:09
Tallken:DSep 11 21:09
MinceRat least not yetSep 11 21:09
Tallkenschestowitz: forget the UI, /chanserv help ; /nickserv help ; /memoserv help ; are your friendsSep 11 21:09
schestowitzI was hoping for non-bot friends. :-)Sep 11 21:10
Tallkenit's not  abotSep 11 21:12
Tallkenit's a service :DSep 11 21:12
schestowitzWell, either way, it's good yo have you help me out here.Sep 11 21:13
schestowitz*to haveSep 11 21:13
TallkenhumSep 11 21:15
*Tallken wondersSep 11 21:16
*Tallken is about to do a marketing stuntSep 11 21:16
TallkendamnSep 11 21:16
TallkenI was going to invite one of ENOS 2008 to here :PSep 11 21:17
Tallken#boycottnovell You need to be a channel operator to do thatSep 11 21:17
trmancololSep 11 21:17
schestowitzENOS?Sep 11 21:18
Tallkenthat OpenSuse thingie in PortugalSep 11 21:18
schestowitzOh yeah...Sep 11 21:18
schestowitzI knew I wrote about it cause it sounded familiar.Sep 11 21:19
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schestowitzmentioned in and 11 21:19
TallkenI know you wrote about it, that's why I didn't explained what was it :DSep 11 21:19
schestowitzHi, zak__ Sep 11 21:19
zak__schestowitz: hiSep 11 21:20
*zak__ is now known as zak_Sep 11 21:20
*zak_ (n=zak_@ has left #boycottnovell ("computers are like air conditioners,they stop working when you open windows, SO STOP using windows")Sep 11 21:28
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Tallken 11 21:52
Tallken< Microsoft and Novell deliver Joint Virtualization Solution >Sep 11 21:52
schestowitzThe comment say it all.Sep 11 21:52
schestowitzMicrosoft plays only with Microsoft Linux.Sep 11 21:52
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TallkenJoint? :PSep 11 21:52
schestowitzHurray.Sep 11 21:52
schestowitzYes, joint... an in, pass the joint to buddy Microsoft, Novell.Sep 11 21:53
Tallken:DSep 11 21:53
schestowitzPipes uv' peace.Sep 11 21:53
MinceRthat is, peace until microsoft no longer considers novell useful.Sep 11 21:58
schestowitzIt's like the two enemies sipping some port and rejoicing peace. The following day the stronger army attacks the intoxicated fool.Sep 11 22:01
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Tallken < Heretic and Hexen liberated! >Sep 11 22:14
schestowitzI used to play them. The memories will stay with the GPLSep 11 22:18
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Tallkenwell gotta goSep 11 22:24
Tallkencya laterSep 11 22:24
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trmanco 11 22:39
trmancooopsSep 11 22:39
trmancowrong channel sorrySep 11 22:40
schestowitzWrong channel? Not sure.Sep 11 22:41
trmancoyes it wasSep 11 22:43
trmancoI got it from one of your posts on usenet and it wasn't on this channel that I was thinking on posting the linkSep 11 22:43
PetoKraus:)Sep 11 22:47
schestowitzIt's an important one nonetheless because it's about Microsoft disregard for standards. There's lot of this in the Novell deal (interop versus real standards)Sep 11 22:47
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