| kentma | I quite agree, I can't stand snobbery, but I have the greatest respect for effort, achievement and capability. | Nov 24 11:05 |
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| PetoKraus | well, i love concept albums... that's why i love prog... that's why I can't talk to many people about the music I listen to *grin* | Nov 24 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | What a joke... Police get Microsoft on crime < http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/security/pol... > | Nov 24 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Learning security from Microsoft? How about moving to *NIX? | Nov 24 11:06 |
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| kentma | PetoKraus: concept albums are a contemporary form of symphony, to my mind, which is perhaps why I like symphonies so much... I've not much time for nursery pop. | Nov 24 11:06 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i think it has other, "darker side" as well | Nov 24 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Seems like a PR thing. | Nov 24 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i don't really wanna feel that people from FBI meddled with my OS | Nov 24 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | also, art is in my opinion not about something beautiful... it's more of a "idea" or "concept" the artist is trying to make. While last NIN's albums were nothing spectacular, I like them, just because the "art" they are doing - Year Zero promo game, US tour incredible stage performances, alternative methods of music distribution.... | Nov 24 11:09 |
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| PetoKraus | it strikes me that in 21st century you still see "art has to be nice, pleasant, to be art" ... | Nov 24 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: Microsoft does with the secret services what Apple and MS do with Hollywood, namely obeying needs for back doors, DRM, etc. | Nov 24 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | That's why GNU/Linux is so crucial. | Nov 24 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | For Freedom in _general_ from the copyrights cartel, abuse from elites, etc | Nov 24 11:14 |
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| *[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 24 11:23 |
| schestowitz | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lAbcU... (Will Nader be in the Debate on Sunday?) | Nov 24 11:32 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: have you changed character encoding on your newss posts recently? | Nov 24 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | I haven't, why? | Nov 24 11:33 |
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| kentma | Umm, I'm seeing some encoding problems as I go through the digest... | Nov 24 11:33 |
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| kentma | I'm particularly noticing this on posts from Friday 21st November at the moment. | Nov 24 11:39 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: interestingly, it seems okay for the 22/11 postings... | Nov 24 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Could it be that one post had odd characters? | Nov 24 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | One bad character can lead to a fallback and I remember seeing one a day or two ago. Try slicing in halves until you pinpoint it maybe? | Nov 24 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | It was some weird closing bracket that I saw a few days ago. | Nov 24 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | Check if it's a Muphy post from ZDNet... maybe. | Nov 24 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | *Murphy | Nov 24 11:49 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: it was a whole series of them on last Friday, but seems okay afterwards. | Nov 24 11:52 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks a million for doing this! | Nov 24 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | It upsets the trolls, which means it's very effective | Nov 24 11:53 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: agreed... it's good for me, as I get to look through each one, too. I've learnt quite a bit about bash, vi(m) and sed as well... | Nov 24 11:54 |
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| kentma | europeana site is down due to getting 10 million hits/hour, but they're going to re-launch in December. I wonder what platform they were on? | Nov 24 12:01 |
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| schestowitz | People learn | Nov 24 12:08 |
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| schestowitz | Nothing wrong with that. | Nov 24 12:08 |
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| schestowitz | Sun Micro does 3 million hits a day on two servers, IIRC (for blogs alone). Avg. utilisation just 3%! | Nov 24 12:09 |
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| PetoKraus | nice | Nov 24 12:53 |
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| PetoKraus | well, their sparc-based machines are awesome | Nov 24 12:53 |
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| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 24 13:07 |
| kentma | I was wondering what platform failed at 10 million hits/hour, as well as being amazed at the popularity of the library - personally, I think it's a great idea, of course. | Nov 24 13:09 |
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| PetoKraus | time to go to lab. See you later, guys | Nov 24 13:12 |
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| kentma | have fun | Nov 24 13:12 |
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| PetoKraus | i hope it'll be fast today | Nov 24 13:12 |
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| PetoKraus | i don't really feel like doing anything | Nov 24 13:13 |
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| kentma | hehe - never mind. perhaps you'll find something to pique your interest | Nov 24 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Why it it that the words "troubles" and "persons" sound so strange? | Nov 24 13:45 |
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| kentma | "the troubles" has been the name for the problems in NI for a long time - it sounds correct to me, however, the persons is clearly wrong :-) | Nov 24 13:51 |
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| seller_liar | Hello Roy | Nov 24 13:54 |
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| seller_liar | Forget about yesterday ok | Nov 24 13:54 |
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| schestowitz | OK | Nov 24 13:55 |
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| seller_liar | Thanks | Nov 24 13:55 |
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| seller_liar | But ,Yesterday , I was not trying to trolling | Nov 24 13:57 |
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| seller_liar | Yesterday I was thinking like Beranger | Nov 24 13:57 |
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| seller_liar | nothing more | Nov 24 13:57 |
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| seller_liar | Beranger sometimes is very agressive | Nov 24 13:57 |
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| seller_liar | But beranger do not forget about freedoom | Nov 24 13:57 |
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| seller_liar | Only this , | Nov 24 13:58 |
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| seller_liar | But sorry if I have cause troubles | Nov 24 13:59 |
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| seller_liar | What we must do to spread freedom over society? | Nov 24 14:01 |
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| seller_liar | We need to grow the Freedom adoption (no only linux adoption ,but freebsd and opesolaris too) | Nov 24 14:02 |
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| trmanco | Hi | Nov 24 14:02 |
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| seller_liar | trmanco: hello | Nov 24 14:03 |
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| trmanco | Hi | Nov 24 14:03 |
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| schestowitz | I still think some points (all?) were invalid and lacked evidence. | Nov 24 14:03 |
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| seller_liar | Maybe | Nov 24 14:04 |
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| seller_liar | Lack of hardware manager and wizards for driver installation is important | Nov 24 14:04 |
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| seller_liar | Package systems only install ,he does not help the user | Nov 24 14:05 |
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| MinceR | yeah, we must force the user to click through meaningless wizards so he can feel as if he was doing something | Nov 24 14:05 |
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| seller_liar | Relax MinceR | Nov 24 14:05 |
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| seller_liar | These wizards are very important for the user | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| MinceR | yeah, they make them feel all warm and fuzzy | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| seller_liar | Is not only pride | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| MinceR | never mind that they aren't accomplishing anything | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| seller_liar | Welcome to installation of ........ | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| seller_liar | I know | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| seller_liar | But the user does nothing about driver installation | Nov 24 14:06 |
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| seller_liar | And good wizards helps a lot | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| MinceR | for idiots who only want to pretend they're using a computer, we already have crApple products | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| seller_liar | Crapple is stupid | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| MinceR | no need to help a lot when most drivers are already installed | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| seller_liar | Does not contain freedom | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| MinceR | wow, finally we agree on something | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| seller_liar | Only slavery and destruction | Nov 24 14:07 |
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| MinceR | no need to help a lot when installing the proprietary driver is installing a single package (especially if when the hardware is found the user is somehow notified about it, iirc ubuntu does this already) | Nov 24 14:08 |
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| seller_liar | I do not know | Nov 24 14:09 |
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| trmanco | wizards make user dumb | Nov 24 14:09 |
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| trmanco | they have little of information of where the config files are located, for example | Nov 24 14:10 |
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| trmanco | Personally I hate wizards, especially the ones that take from you your freedom | Nov 24 14:10 |
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| trmanco | users* | Nov 24 14:11 |
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| seller_liar | But ,the user loves ,this is not "to be" windows , this is only help the user | Nov 24 14:11 |
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| trmanco | and as for the "hardware manager" | Nov 24 14:12 |
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| MinceR | having the user click through meaningless dialogs doesn't help the user | Nov 24 14:12 |
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| trmanco | $sudo apt-get install hardinfo wil do in ubuntu | Nov 24 14:12 |
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| trmanco | will* | Nov 24 14:12 |
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| seller_liar | A long Time ago , the Hardware Manager helps a lot installing drivers | Nov 24 14:12 |
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| seller_liar | Hardinfo is a simple frontend and only informs | Nov 24 14:13 |
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| seller_liar | It's not possible to install drivers | Nov 24 14:13 |
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| trmanco | go to synaptic or install the driver the Windows way | Nov 24 14:13 |
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| trmanco | find it, download an install | Nov 24 14:13 |
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| seller_liar | Synaptic is very modular ,there are a lot of packages | Nov 24 14:14 |
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| seller_liar | is very confusing for the user | Nov 24 14:14 |
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| seller_liar | Add/Remove is very smart and simple | Nov 24 14:14 |
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| seller_liar | But a simple hardware manager is better | Nov 24 14:14 |
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| trmanco | I hat add/remove | Nov 24 14:15 |
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| trmanco | it hides a lot a needed info of a certain package | Nov 24 14:15 |
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| trmanco | of* | Nov 24 14:16 |
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| seller_liar | But helps the user because of simplicity | Nov 24 14:16 |
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| trmanco | simplicity makes users dumb | Nov 24 14:16 |
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| seller_liar | User Always will be dumb | Nov 24 14:17 |
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| trmanco | they should know where everthing is and how it works, It helps you learn how the system works | Nov 24 14:17 |
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| seller_liar | He will stop to be dumb when he wants to be smart | Nov 24 14:17 |
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| seller_liar | Is very hard to convince people using the hard way of life | Nov 24 14:17 |
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| seller_liar | The easy way is more fast to convince | Nov 24 14:18 |
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| seller_liar | And later we teach them the hard way | Nov 24 14:18 |
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| trmanco | they won't want the hard way if they know the easy way | Nov 24 14:18 |
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| trmanco | a simple example | Nov 24 14:18 |
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| trmanco | when somebody wants to learn how to work with a computer, they should always start with a command line (hard for some/easy for others) | Nov 24 14:19 |
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| seller_liar | This is not good for actual era | Nov 24 14:20 |
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| trmanco | yes it yes | Nov 24 14:20 |
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| trmanco | everybody should know basic command line utilities | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| trmanco | and if they don't want to learn, then don't bother using a computer then | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| _doug | trmanco: yea, they should teach CLI in school .. | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| trmanco | they will know nothing or very little with the stupid HUI's | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| trmanco | _doug, yes | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| trmanco | IMO, at least | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| MinceR | HUI in russian? :> | Nov 24 14:21 |
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| trmanco | oops | Nov 24 14:22 |
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| trmanco | GUI's* | Nov 24 14:22 |
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| trmanco | starting with GUI's* | Nov 24 14:22 |
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| seller_liar | This will fail! | Nov 24 14:22 |
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| seller_liar | CLI is DIED!!!!!!! | Nov 24 14:22 |
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| trmanco | no it isn't | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| seller_liar | IS DEAD | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| seller_liar | soory | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| MinceR | it neither is dead | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| trmanco | it is dead in the Wind ows world | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| seller_liar | People does not to use Vi or emacs for simple things | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| seller_liar | DIED | Nov 24 14:23 |
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| *MinceR is not-people, apparently | Nov 24 14:23 |
| trmanco | because they found a way to hide stuff from the user by using a simple and legal GUI | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| MinceR | unless we consider vim a special case | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| trmanco | seller_liar, they should start from there | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| trmanco | and then go to the GUI part | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| MinceR | seller_liar: protip: GUIs don't have the full power of a CLI | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| seller_liar | They should start using guis | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| seller_liar | Because a lot of people comes of windowz | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| trmanco | that is the only way they can realize the evolution | Nov 24 14:24 |
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| seller_liar | And people WILL NOT change the system for use CLI | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| _doug | ot: couple sue McDonald's over nude photos .. | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| _doug | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/... | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| trmanco | well that is there problem not mine | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| seller_liar | Have you seen Super Size Me? | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| _doug | ot: Good grief, what is it to do with McBurger if you lose your own phone .. ?? | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| seller_liar | Stupid McStupid | Nov 24 14:25 |
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| trmanco | if users wan't to be stupid, they can swim in there stupidness, and die very little "culture" | Nov 24 14:26 |
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| trmanco | with* | Nov 24 14:26 |
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| seller_liar | The problem is about 90% of people is Stupid | Nov 24 14:26 |
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| seller_liar | If Stupid people dies , there's nothing to live | Nov 24 14:26 |
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| _doug | they are not stupid, just intellectually lazy, haven't learned something new since they left school .. | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| MinceR | i think people could start with GUIs and learn things graduall | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| MinceR | y | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| _doug | What the Windows GUI promises, is results without effort .. | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| seller_liar | Of course | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| MinceR | but they shouldn't expect the system to read their minds or to work without effort on the part of the user | Nov 24 14:27 |
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| seller_liar | Of course | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| _doug | But what people don't seem to realize is that, the computer can only do what you tell it .. | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| MinceR | a computer is a complex tool for complex tasks, it can't be fully utilized without learning its use | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| seller_liar | But we need some Guis to help the user | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| trmanco | we already have GUI's | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| seller_liar | Lack wizards | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| trmanco | I hate wizards | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| seller_liar | Lack gui without "frontends" | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| MinceR | seller_liar: we need GUIs to help the user do common tasks, not to coddle them with "welcome to the installation of something that could have been automatically installed without your knowledge" | Nov 24 14:28 |
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| seller_liar | The user not | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| MinceR | and frontends can fully accomplish what i'm talking about | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| seller_liar | Windows uses wizard to pervert people | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| MinceR | for configuration/administration jobs | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| trmanco | wizard are annoying | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| seller_liar | Linux does not need follow the "windows way" | Nov 24 14:29 |
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| trmanco | then why are you saying this then? | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| seller_liar | But look | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| seller_liar | InstallShields for example is more user friendly than packages | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| trmanco | the windows way is with wizards and a bunch of bloated GUI's | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| MinceR | installshield is one of the shittiest software i've ever seen | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| trmanco | yes | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| _doug | http://www.scribd.com/doc/69157/Dumb-or... | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| trmanco | it suck | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| trmanco | sucks* | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| MinceR | it unpacks itself at least three times and then leaves an isdel.exe running that in some cases slows installation to a crawl | Nov 24 14:30 |
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| MinceR | and standalone installers are a stupid concept that needs to die | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | (even m$ realizes this now, hence msi) | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| seller_liar | Bad design maybe, but it's a good idea | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | no, it's not | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| seller_liar | is Very User friendly | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| trmanco | as I already said, you need to be a genius to understand the *nixes simplicity | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | it's useless replication of code and bloat | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | and it keeps installation and upgrade from happening automatically | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| trmanco | or in this case Linux | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | it forces the user to click through all the installers every time | Nov 24 14:31 |
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| MinceR | it also lacks the smart dependency handling package managers provide. | Nov 24 14:32 |
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| seller_liar | Msi is good | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| _doug | apt-get install [package-name]: how is this too complicated ? | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | MSI? | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| seller_liar | A good wizard | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | :O | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* HUI | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | and a slow one too | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, typo | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | :( | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| *schestowitz knows the bad Russian words | Nov 24 14:33 |
| trmanco | oh crap | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| trmanco | what does that mean? | Nov 24 14:33 |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: :) | Nov 24 14:34 |
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| _doug | this whole thread is boring, GUI v CLI .. I'm taking a break until sanity is restored .. | Nov 24 14:34 |
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| schestowitz | KDE has wizards too. Better than Windows' | Nov 24 14:36 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, it's a typo and you SHOUTED it. | Nov 24 14:36 |
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| seller_liar | For hardware configuration ??? | Nov 24 14:37 |
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| schestowitz | Windows has them for h/w? | Nov 24 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | Network is not hardware | Nov 24 14:38 |
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| trmanco | HUI (acronym), Hawaiian User Interface - created for Hawaiian Airlines | Nov 24 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | The best 'wizard' for Windows is the 15-year-old geek next door | Nov 24 14:38 |
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| MinceR | those perverted hawaiian russians | Nov 24 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | That's how people get Windows to 'work' | Nov 24 14:39 |
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| schestowitz | [or be 'mended'] | Nov 24 14:39 |
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| seller_liar | Windows have Wizard for netwroking configuration | Nov 24 14:39 |
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| MinceR | the best wizard for windows is the kubuntu graphical installer | Nov 24 14:39 |
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| trmanco | ha found what in means | Nov 24 14:39 |
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| schestowitz | Windows HUI error | Nov 24 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | *GUI | Nov 24 14:40 |
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| seller_liar | Another problem is a lot of tuto writers does not create Gui-based Tutorials | Nov 24 14:40 |
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| seller_liar | Only create CLI-based Tutorials | Nov 24 14:40 |
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| seller_liar | type ls mkdir blablabla | Nov 24 14:40 |
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| seller_liar | And windows and Crapple Macsh*t | Nov 24 14:41 |
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| seller_liar | Click on x ,click on y ,blabla | Nov 24 14:41 |
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| seller_liar | This is very UGLY | Nov 24 14:42 |
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| seller_liar | Even using Kubuntu ,a lot of tutos are based in CLI | Nov 24 14:42 |
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| seller_liar | Another big problem is lack of group localization testers | Nov 24 14:45 |
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| seller_liar | About 70% of distros I have teste have problems with translations and Keyboard | Nov 24 14:45 |
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| seller_liar | Except Debian ones | Nov 24 14:46 |
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| seller_liar | Even Fedora have problems | Nov 24 14:46 |
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| _doug | ADO.NET Entity Framework don't support change tracking .. | Nov 24 14:46 |
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| _doug | http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/11/EF-2010-... | Nov 24 14:46 |
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| seller_liar | Will mono support? | Nov 24 14:47 |
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| seller_liar | Or | Nov 24 14:47 |
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| seller_liar | Novell will clone m$ behavior? | Nov 24 14:47 |
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| _doug | Will 'Black Monday' Bring Malware Armageddon? | Nov 24 14:50 |
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| _doug | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/15432... | Nov 24 14:50 |
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| *MinceR_ (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 24 14:53 |
| schestowitz | _doug: Black Money will bring something else. | Nov 24 14:57 |
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| schestowitz | Last night I spoke to friend whose informant in the US talk of some kind of mobiliation. | Nov 24 14:57 |
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| schestowitz | Retired army people are being brought back and nobody knows why/ | Nov 24 14:58 |
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| _doug | "seller_liar": The 10 Commandments for New Linux Users .. http://snipurl.com/6o838 | Nov 24 14:59 |
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| trmanco | http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/20/li... | Nov 24 15:00 |
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| trmanco | non sense | Nov 24 15:00 |
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| _doug | http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/... | Nov 24 15:00 |
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| seller_liar | I'm not a new Linux user | Nov 24 15:01 |
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| seller_liar | Only a simple GNU Linux user | Nov 24 15:01 |
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| _doug | how long have you sues nix ? | Nov 24 15:01 |
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| _doug | used .. | Nov 24 15:01 |
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| _doug | those rules still apply, kep it simple, don't reinvent the wheel .. | Nov 24 15:02 |
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| _doug | Can you give me a specific example of a problem you came across ? | Nov 24 15:03 |
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| _doug | which distros have you used ? | Nov 24 15:03 |
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| seller_liar | Constants emake or die of gentoo | Nov 24 15:03 |
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| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 24 15:03 |
| _doug | you're back on Gentoo ;) | Nov 24 15:03 |
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| _doug | emake, what application ? | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| seller_liar | No! | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| seller_liar | My problem is only one | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| seller_liar | Spread of Freedom (no only Linux) | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| _doug | you have a problem with emake on Gentoo .. yea ? | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| seller_liar | Not anymore ,I 'm not using | Nov 24 15:04 |
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| seller_liar | Actually I don't have problems | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| _doug | what problems did you come across and on what distro ? | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| seller_liar | Sabayon Gnu Linux | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| seller_liar | Java installation using stupid java-config is soooo stupid | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| MinceR_ | seller_liar: there's an extremely simple solution to the lack of GUI-based tutorials | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| MinceR_ | make some ;) | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Nov 24 15:05 |
| _doug | Oh, you're just waxing philosophical .. | Nov 24 15:05 |
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| seller_liar | No doug! | Nov 24 15:06 |
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| seller_liar | Sabayon and Gentoo is complex for install java | Nov 24 15:06 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: tutorials, try reading the man pages or using the INFO untility .. | Nov 24 15:06 |
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| seller_liar | People need to educate and create GUi-based tutos | Nov 24 15:07 |
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| seller_liar | Man pages!!!!!!! | Nov 24 15:07 |
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| seller_liar | Man is a very primitive ancestral stupid help! | Nov 24 15:07 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: what did the support forum have to say about installing Java on Gentoo ? | Nov 24 15:07 |
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| MinceR | i prefer info | Nov 24 15:07 |
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| seller_liar | A lot of things ,About 100 pages about icedtea | Nov 24 15:08 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: if you need GUI tutorials, then you should avoid the likes of Gentoo, which are designed for technical users who can work man pages, /usr/share/doc/readme, info, irc channels, mailing lists and the like | Nov 24 15:08 |
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| seller_liar | I know, I'm not using anymore | Nov 24 15:08 |
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| _doug | did you get a response when you posted your problem ? | Nov 24 15:08 |
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| seller_liar | There's no need , all solutions have create | Nov 24 15:09 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: I don't mean to be rude, I think it's just being realistic about the intended market for a given distribution. Probably you should stick with Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, openSuSE, Mandriva and such like. | Nov 24 15:09 |
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| seller_liar | The problem is read about 100 pages of forum | Nov 24 15:09 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: search? | Nov 24 15:09 |
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| seller_liar | Yes ,is a solution ,.but is not a good one | Nov 24 15:09 |
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| _doug | selleer_liar: you had problems with emake and java on Gentoo, but never bothered to post a query on the support forum. How else did you expect to solve it? | Nov 24 15:10 |
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| seller_liar | No doug, I have resolved my problems in gentoo | Nov 24 15:10 |
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| seller_liar | I' have visited bugzilla for emake and gentoo forum for icedtea | Nov 24 15:11 |
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| _doug | selleer_liar: what distros have you tried apart from Gentoo, one of the most esoteric and difficult ones for a beginner to try ? | Nov 24 15:11 |
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| seller_liar | But I'm not using gentoo anymore | Nov 24 15:11 |
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| _doug | selleer_liar: what support questions did *you* post ? | Nov 24 15:11 |
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| seller_liar | I'm not post nothing | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| _doug | selleer_liar: what distros have you tried, what distro are you using currently ? | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| seller_liar | All questions have answered | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| seller_liar | Kubuntu 8.10 | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| _doug | selleer_liar: how do you expect people to solve your problem, if you don't ask ? | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| seller_liar | My problems have resolved | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| seller_liar | There's no problem anymore | Nov 24 15:12 |
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| seller_liar | And I'm not using gentoo anymore | Nov 24 15:13 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: probably best for you. Doug is right, though - if you have a problem and don't ask, then nobody will be able to help you. | Nov 24 15:13 |
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| seller_liar | I have Installed Mandriva(good! )Pardus ,Sabayon, PC-BSD(good !), Ubuntu(good) | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| seller_liar | Slackware, | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: you first tried Gentoo and then Kubuntu, is that correct ? | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| seller_liar | No , | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: you first tried Gentoo, slackware and then Kubuntu ? | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| seller_liar | My first distro was Kurumin | Nov 24 15:14 |
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| seller_liar | Sorry | Nov 24 15:15 |
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| kentma | Mandriva, kubuntu & Ubuntu are all aimed at beginner users. PC-BSD is absolutely stuck in man-pages, though... | Nov 24 15:15 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: in order, tell us what distros you used ? | Nov 24 15:15 |
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| seller_liar | Conectiva 6 | Nov 24 15:15 |
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| seller_liar | Conectiva 6, Kurumin,Ubuntu,Debian, Kubuntu,Ubuntu,Mandriva,Gentoo,Sabayon,Mandriva,and Finally Kubuntu | Nov 24 15:15 |
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| seller_liar | And other I have used for a little time | Nov 24 15:16 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: any problems with Kubuntu ? | Nov 24 15:16 |
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| seller_liar | Some bugs in Dolphin, but not fatal | Nov 24 15:16 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: what bugs in Dolphin ? | Nov 24 15:16 |
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| seller_liar | It crashed sometimes , When try to copy some files | Nov 24 15:17 |
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| _doug | personally I installed Kubuntu, added xfce and used KDE for filemanagement .. call me lazy .. | Nov 24 15:17 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: what did the help forum say when you reported bugs in Dolphin ? | Nov 24 15:18 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: for copying files, fire up bash and type $cp -r source_dir/* /dest_dir .. | Nov 24 15:19 |
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| seller_liar | Ah , I have post nothing | Nov 24 15:19 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: where did you get your copy of Kubuntu ? | Nov 24 15:19 |
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| seller_liar | Kubuntu home page | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| seller_liar | Hahha very funny | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: why not sign up for a support contract with Canonical Ltd ? | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| seller_liar | hehe | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| seller_liar | no | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: why not? | Nov 24 15:20 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: if you won't post to the support forums and won't sign a support contract, then who do you expect to fix your 'bugs' the shoe fairys ? | Nov 24 15:21 |
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| seller_liar | My problems are lack of freedom in actual society | Nov 24 15:22 |
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| seller_liar | Bugs are not a BIG problem | Nov 24 15:22 |
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| _doug | seller_liar: explain how a linux distro restricts your freedom in society ? | Nov 24 15:23 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: why don't you get a support contract from Canonical? It's not a trick question - is there a particular reason? Is this just personal use? Do you like dabbling anyway? Do you lack the funds? | Nov 24 15:23 |
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| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Nov 24 15:23 |
| _doug | http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html | Nov 24 15:23 |
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| seller_liar | Stop I'm not trolling | Nov 24 15:24 |
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| seller_liar | Lets start Boycottnovell | Nov 24 15:24 |
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| schestowitz | What kind of a new user goes for Gentoo or unstable (cutting-edge) distro from a 19 -year-old (Sabayon)? *rolls eyes* | Nov 24 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | It's like a man who buys computer components to build a PC rather than order a prebuilt one... don't complain if you ask for the advanced route. | Nov 24 15:27 |
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| seller_liar | Gentoo was not my first distro | Nov 24 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | Mandriva has Java and everything out of the box. | Nov 24 15:28 |
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| trmanco | http://tecnologia.terra.com.br/interna... | Nov 24 15:28 |
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| seller_liar | Gentoo was only curiosity | Nov 24 15:28 |
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| seller_liar | Is cool | Nov 24 15:28 |
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| seller_liar | I like to test new distros | Nov 24 15:29 |
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| seller_liar | Of course , I will not like all them | Nov 24 15:29 |
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| seller_liar | My first distro was conectiva 6 | Nov 24 15:29 |
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| seller_liar | And after, kurumin | Nov 24 15:30 |
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| seller_liar | Mandriva and Ubuntu have good installation of Icedtea | Nov 24 15:30 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, I was born and rasied in iowa yet,,but my home is in washington state yes ;)) | Nov 24 15:30 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, seatte area yup | Nov 24 15:31 |
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| neighborlee | well if not for mono, I guarantree you I would likely have gone mandriva | Nov 24 15:31 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: but if you enjoy playing with distros, you can hardly expect them to be all the same, so what's the point of complaining about things you were not able to resolve? The alternative is something like the Windows world, where there is no choice at all... presumably you wouldn't like that, so why complain about the implications of choice? | Nov 24 15:32 |
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| neighborlee | their latest 2009 livecd is stunningly fast compared to all of them. | Nov 24 15:32 |
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| neighborlee | and thats , imho anyway the probem with linux,,not even consistency for new people..too much choice << | Nov 24 15:32 |
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| neighborlee | it confuses unnecessarily | Nov 24 15:32 |
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| neighborlee | I see it all the time , though there are a few distros getting the most use Im rather sure, which does help circumvent that issue :) | Nov 24 15:33 |
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| seller_liar | kentma: I like to share opinions , only this | Nov 24 15:33 |
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| seller_liar | kentma: I can try to solve all problems , but is very hard to do everything alone | Nov 24 15:33 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: we all do, but you seem to be doing so without really considering the markets for the distros - for example, you complain about man pages, and yet decide to install gentoo - this is not a logically consistent position. | Nov 24 15:34 |
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| seller_liar | kentma: And then I try to explain for people my ideas | Nov 24 15:34 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: when all the people are the same, then choice will be a bad thing. Until then, it is a good thing. | Nov 24 15:34 |
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| kentma | seller_liar: fine, but if those ideas are not based on an initial rational position, they are unlikely to be of value to anyone. | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| seller_liar | kentma: Simply, I do not use man pages of gentoo ,I like optimization | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, yes and no | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| seller_liar | And my mind have changed | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, most major distro releases have all had issues there should never have been | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: yes and yes. | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| neighborlee | wrong | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: and grass is sometimes a slightly different shade of green.. welcome to the real world. | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| neighborlee | QA is unacceptable. | Nov 24 15:35 |
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| neighborlee | thats making the arguement very simplistic. | Nov 24 15:36 |
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| neighborlee | :) | Nov 24 15:36 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: whereas "yes and no" is not making it simplistic? It seems to me that you like to simplify when it suits you. | Nov 24 15:36 |
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| seller_liar | Lets stop talking about this | Nov 24 15:36 |
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| neighborlee | ok you can stop with the mono -like at tacks ;) | Nov 24 15:36 |
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| neighborlee | cause I wont reply anymore if you do | Nov 24 15:37 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: what's a mono-like attack? | Nov 24 15:37 |
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| neighborlee | 'when it suits you'..thats very ridiculous. | Nov 24 15:37 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: ah, so you want to be able to simply a point to "yes and no", (I quote you) when it suits you, and not let anyone point out that you did it? Please correct me if I have that wrong somewhere... | Nov 24 15:38 |
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| neighborlee | if given a chance, I would have explained 'yes and no', ;) | Nov 24 15:38 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: okay - go on then... | Nov 24 15:38 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: please explain why taking my choices away is better for me? | Nov 24 15:39 |
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| kentma | okay - you can't. | Nov 24 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: be careful what you say in Seattle. | Nov 24 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | [some of the BN trolls post from there] | Nov 24 15:41 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, you know what assuming does right ;)) | Nov 24 15:41 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, ill take my beebee gun with me ;) | Nov 24 15:41 |
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| neighborlee | rofl | Nov 24 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: Mandriva 2009 is supposed not to have Mono (by default) | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: I'm sorry, I didn't understand your last message... | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | See the BN post when Alanw replied to me. | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | They removed it after complaints. | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| neighborlee | OMG are you kidding | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| neighborlee | dont kid me like that lol | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| neighborlee | hmm url | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| neighborlee | is it obvious from bn homepage ? | Nov 24 15:42 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, sorry I was trying to find a youtube link..once I do ill comment further why sometimes choice isn't what it seems | Nov 24 15:43 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, but in the meantime..and im NOT sticking up for windows on a FOSS level anyway ;)..if choice was so amazing, you would think a operating system that has little compared to linux anyway would falter in a huge way ? | Nov 24 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on | Nov 24 15:44 |
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| neighborlee | ok | Nov 24 15:44 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: only if you didn't understand how lock-in works. | Nov 24 15:44 |
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| neighborlee | ic :) | Nov 24 15:44 |
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| neighborlee | well tel that to my anal friend in seattle, that uses windows everyday , and has no trouble with the 'lock-in' ;) | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: see update at the top of this < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/1... > and comment at the bottom (from Mandriva) | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| neighborlee | id be happy to ask here to come here sometime and tell her story | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: I wonder if you do. Exit cost is a major barrier, but most certainly not the only barrier to adoption of new technologies. | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, ok thx | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: mindshare, attitude, familiarity, the network effect, fear of change, fear of computers are all issues here ... which one is hers? | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, price of change sometimes ;( | Nov 24 15:45 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, my friend is fearless | Nov 24 15:46 |
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| neighborlee | smart, kind.. | Nov 24 15:46 |
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| neighborlee | a very capable person | Nov 24 15:46 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: if she's mostly using a web browser, then it's pretty much a non-issue. | Nov 24 15:46 |
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| neighborlee | ? | Nov 24 15:47 |
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| kentma | Ah, general capability is another vector, it doesn't affect the network effect, familiarity, fear of change and so on which almost everyone suffers from no matter how smart they might be. | Nov 24 15:47 |
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| neighborlee | oh ,,no she is way beyond, just a web browser ;) | Nov 24 15:47 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: beyond what, though? most people are moving to mobility now, so the web-browser is the key tool into google docs, mail, youtube, facebook, 2ndlife, etc. | Nov 24 15:47 |
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| kentma | if she sees no need to change, then you are probably wasting your time. | Nov 24 15:48 |
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| kentma | change, for her, would be effort with no reward. | Nov 24 15:48 |
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| neighborlee | well its less need to change, and instead a need to stay | Nov 24 15:48 |
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| neighborlee | the few times she's used linux she had trouble with some hardware she depends on..hence the lock-in im afraid does have some meaning but its hardly her fault in that she's not capable of making such a move. | Nov 24 15:49 |
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| neighborlee | sometimes that is just the reality of our lives. | Nov 24 15:49 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: if there is no compelling reason for change, then she won't do it. If there are hardware issues too, then that will make things worse. | Nov 24 15:49 |
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| neighborlee | not for her lack of trying I can guarantee that. | Nov 24 15:49 |
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| kentma | I don't know what she's doing - perhaps an AsusEEE with Linux on it would do the job? she might like that - girls like them very much because they're small and light. | Nov 24 15:50 |
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| neighborlee | she is the one that actually introduced me TO linux , years ago..so she has tried courageously off and on | Nov 24 15:50 |
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| neighborlee | LOL | Nov 24 15:50 |
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| neighborlee | well ;) | Nov 24 15:50 |
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| kentma | why LOL? | Nov 24 15:50 |
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| neighborlee | my friend is unique | Nov 24 15:51 |
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| kentma | so is everyone... hence the need for choice... | Nov 24 15:51 |
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| neighborlee | she's not a fluffy girl type that needs pink ribbons and ,,well...she's just herself ;) | Nov 24 15:51 |
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| kentma | does she want to change her PC at all? | Nov 24 15:51 |
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| neighborlee | we haven't talked about linux for sometimes on a meaningful level, mainly because the few apps/hardware requirements she has keep her from going linux in a serious way..mostly a few apps, but d efinitely games are a HUGE hurdle. | Nov 24 15:52 |
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| kentma | my kids spend hours playing games. We have no windows machines. It's not necessarily a barrier. | Nov 24 15:52 |
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| neighborlee | im afraid in this case, games are a sad lock-in yes..hardly linux's fault, thats just a sad reality when your market share is so low and yes we can debate why that is so I suppose ;) | Nov 24 15:52 |
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| kentma | Desktop PCs are a dead technology - most gamers have moved onto consoles. | Nov 24 15:53 |
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| neighborlee | hmm ,,to what levels I dont know..have you see hard #'s ? | Nov 24 15:53 |
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| kentma | wii and PS3 are the popular choices, and are where most of the games are. | Nov 24 15:53 |
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| neighborlee | but I am sure there is a driving force to trend that way yes | Nov 24 15:54 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: the world has moved to mobility for personal stuff, everything is becoming hosted and stored network-side for day to day interactions, and even many major games are MUD-type interactive games, or FPSs with a network-side host. | Nov 24 15:54 |
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| neighborlee | I go from PC to wii often.but im not the typical player either..I dont do hack n slash often I preefer deep rpg &/or deep stategy..something with depth instead of slash | Nov 24 15:54 |
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| neighborlee | but I can tell you for sure, she does enjoy WoW alot lately....to my shagrin | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| kentma | indeed. My kids love Runscape, and also play World of Warcraft too. | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| neighborlee | its not free ;( | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| kentma | WoW runs on Macs. | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| neighborlee | and not linux | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| neighborlee | I wonder why that is | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| kentma | economics of lock-in. | Nov 24 15:55 |
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| neighborlee | wow developers just hate linux | Nov 24 15:56 |
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| neighborlee | still searching for that youtube choice thing | Nov 24 15:56 |
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| neighborlee | dain I had it last night ;( | Nov 24 15:56 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: haha! no, it's economics. | Nov 24 15:56 |
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| neighborlee | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM | Nov 24 15:57 |
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| kentma | game developers (aside from GPLed ones) are specifically there to make lots of money from their customers, and anyone else in the channel. If, say, Microsoft will pay them a lot to not port to a given platform, they'll look at the economics and determine whether it's worth it. | Nov 24 15:57 |
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| trmanco | http://www.linux.com/var/uploa... just found this | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| neighborlee | that would be unfortunate I agree,,if true | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| trmanco | http://www.linux.com/feature/120731 | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| kentma | we know that it's true. | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| neighborlee | given that is M$, id be tempted to believe it of course,, | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| kentma | It's *all* about economics. | Nov 24 15:58 |
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| neighborlee | you gotta wonder why linux has taken so amazing long to get higher share figures though | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| kentma | Do you know who paid Schwartz for his presentation, btw? | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| neighborlee | is it all hardware lock-in and money palmed?..I find that a bit hard to believe :) | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: why is that hard to believe? | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| neighborlee | because I 've used linux | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| neighborlee | its not the panacea you might think it is | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: that's nothing to do with economics, is it? | Nov 24 15:59 |
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| neighborlee | its a side affect sadly | Nov 24 16:00 |
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| neighborlee | I use and love the linux OS , but im a realist too..im not afraid to push back a little..some are im not. | Nov 24 16:00 |
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| neighborlee | ie: im not a linux appologist | Nov 24 16:00 |
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| kentma | I've no idea what you mean. The issue is economics, and Linux is gradually, slowly, but surely winning this battle, because economically, it *must* win. | Nov 24 16:00 |
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| neighborlee | for wayyyyy too long linux has been a geek OS | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| kentma | there is no way that Microsoft can afford to take on Linux, for example. | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| neighborlee | in a ever changing world, I dont think it can correct,,foss is winninng mindshare I think yes | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| kentma | I don't know what a "geek OS" is, but I do know that Linux is dominant in many areas even now. | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| neighborlee | thankfully | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| neighborlee | and im very glad it is. | Nov 24 16:01 |
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| neighborlee | very glad | Nov 24 16:02 |
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| neighborlee | I saw the article on super computing and was quite pleased ;) | Nov 24 16:02 |
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| kentma | consider that creating a linux distro is estimated to be something around US$40-50bn (personally, I think this is low, but there we go). | Nov 24 16:02 |
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| kentma | so, there's no way that anyone will ever try to develop a new OS to compete with it - how could you compete with free? | Nov 24 16:02 |
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| neighborlee | where you get those figures | Nov 24 16:03 |
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| kentma | They're published by the Linux Foundation. | Nov 24 16:03 |
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| neighborlee | ic | Nov 24 16:03 |
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| kentma | But there have been other estimates by Universities which have reached similar conclusions. | Nov 24 16:04 |
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| kentma | just on a kloc basis, it's impossible to compete with a modern linux distro. | Nov 24 16:04 |
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| kentma | so, the question is not whether Linux will be successful - this is inevitable - the question is more how long Microsoft can keep paying off companies to stop them from installing it on OEM machines, porting software to it, supporting it on media downloads, porting games, and so on. | Nov 24 16:05 |
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| kentma | this question resolves to "how much cash do Microsoft have, and is it falling or rising" | Nov 24 16:05 |
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| kentma | and the answer is "loads of cash, but they've been losing it for years". | Nov 24 16:06 |
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| neighborlee | even ubuntu and a few others stilll have ways of doing things, that are still showing command line use in faq's..im sure that will trend down but atm to me thats kinda a problematic thing given linux needs to raise its market share by ,,tons. | Nov 24 16:07 |
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| neighborlee | that people tend to give CLI advice on forums isn't helping. | Nov 24 16:07 |
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| neighborlee | its a mindset | Nov 24 16:07 |
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| kentma | I think you're missing a point here. Linux doesn't "need" to grow at all, it will grow because the vendors need to sell computers, and Windows costs too much. Once pre-installs are out in numbers, all will be fine. | Nov 24 16:08 |
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| neighborlee | I wonder how dell computers are helping to make linux share market #'s bigger,,if at all | Nov 24 16:08 |
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| kentma | dell don't care about Linux share, they care about Dell share... | Nov 24 16:09 |
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| neighborlee | of course | Nov 24 16:09 |
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| neighborlee | but it does count in the grander scheme of making linux popular , and used | Nov 24 16:09 |
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| kentma | indeed, but you need to expand that thought to the whole "linux market share" argument. | Nov 24 16:09 |
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| kentma | Linux is already incredibly popular, and will, inevitably, continue to be so. | Nov 24 16:09 |
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| neighborlee | well I sure hope so | Nov 24 16:10 |
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| kentma | tomtom, garmin, archos, gamepark, sony all use it on devices, motorola, google, freerunner, samsung all use it on phones, alcatel, ericsson, nortel, all use it in telco equipment... | Nov 24 16:10 |
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| neighborlee | but imho it needs alot more QA standards | Nov 24 16:10 |
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| _doug | IP Ventures spawn off spinnoff .. | Nov 24 16:11 |
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| _doug | http://www.rpxcorp.com/team_f... | Nov 24 16:11 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: what QA standards for what? | Nov 24 16:11 |
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| neighborlee | yes I realize linux succeeds in those areas | Nov 24 16:12 |
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| neighborlee | if you check the last few releases or so of all major linux brands they haven't been that problem free I dont think | Nov 24 16:12 |
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| neighborlee | and the reason imho for that, is lacking QA due to a fractured environment | Nov 24 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: Jo Barr (not deceased) replied there to an article from a Microsoft mole, Pete Galli | Nov 24 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | Galli now WORKS for Microsoft. They hired the kook. | Nov 24 16:13 |
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| neighborlee | this 'too many linux distros' isnt a mindset only I came up with btw ;) | Nov 24 16:13 |
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| neighborlee | a few other great minds think so too | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: the only reason it's possible to have linux used in all these different types of machine is because the whole thing is so modular. | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| _doug | "Amster wouldn't say how much its inaugural members -- IBM and Cisco -- are paying" | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| _doug | http://www.techflash.com/IBM_Cisco_support... | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| neighborlee | ok , obviously JK, but I could not resist,,laughter matters ;) | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| _doug | "The Wall Street Journal reports that Google, H-P, Cisco and others are members.)" | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: the price for modularity is that there will be differing development cycles, differing directions and so on, but that's not a bad thing at all. | Nov 24 16:14 |
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| kentma | look at things the other way around, in the windows world, where the modularity is not inherent, the problems are unbelievable, years of development, millions of new lines of code, and an operating system which is a complete disaster - | Nov 24 16:16 |
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| PetoKraus | it, indeed, was horrible | Nov 24 16:16 |
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| PetoKraus | instead of doing stuff we were doing group calculations | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, oh yes about mandriva and OO,,I read that, but that doesn't mean mono is gone entirely, just gone from that OO dependency right ? | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| PetoKraus | had i known that, i wouldn't even bother | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, indeed "He has comprehensively covered Microsoft and its Windows and .Net platforms, as well as the many legal challenges it has faced. He has also focused on Sun Microsystems and its Solaris operating environment, Java and Unix offerings." | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| trmanco | once again Java | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, ill try to verify that, but I think mandriva gnome 2009 stil has those same mono apps | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| PetoKraus | neighborlee: since the case [Vista Capable] is in seattle, and i guess the courts are public - are you gonna go? :P | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| neighborlee | maybe, if I have time | Nov 24 16:17 |
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| neighborlee | Im just as willling to get the information second h and ;) | Nov 24 16:18 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: you'll need a lot of spare time, I suspect... | Nov 24 16:18 |
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| neighborlee | no doubt o_0 | Nov 24 16:18 |
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| kentma | anyway - that was my point... excessively tight coupling gives the impression that better results can be obtained, however, the model is unstable, and ultimately results in unmaintainable code. | Nov 24 16:19 |
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| neighborlee | well if windows was such a disaster , I doubt my other anal friends would be using it.. I'll give you the lock'in factor but thats not all of it..familiarity is another im happy to concede that, but there are other factors to consider too and linux does bear some responsbility there its not without sin :)) | Nov 24 16:20 |
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| kentma | or, to put it another way, choice is the best way of ensuring modularity, and the best way of ensuring long-term stability and maintainability for code. Removal of choice provides a brief period of stability and improved "qa", but in fairly short order, the monolith collapses as the dependencies become too complex for anyone to grasp. | Nov 24 16:21 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: windows vista *is* a disaster. | Nov 24 16:21 |
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| neighborlee | hardly | Nov 24 16:22 |
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| neighborlee | maybe for some,,some hardware , yadda | Nov 24 16:22 |
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| neighborlee | but hardly a mess,,I am using it right now. | Nov 24 16:22 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: it won't even run on the *only* growing part of the market - the netbook. | Nov 24 16:22 |
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| neighborlee | though Ive altered a few things yes..to make it slightly more snappier. | Nov 24 16:22 |
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| neighborlee | but yeah , on release it was not perfect,I did have some trouble with m y audio driver ,onboard realtek ac97 | Nov 24 16:23 |
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| kentma | DSG lost millions by stocking it, and then discovering that they'd given Microsoft the opportunity to claim millions of sales which in reality only sit on the shelves of their warehouses and shops - nobody wants it. | Nov 24 16:23 |
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| neighborlee | well :) | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | in this instance , M$ shot itself in the foot im afraid ;) | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | the did not listen to m any to execs. | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | good for linux ;) lol | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | and mac | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| kentma | It was such a poor strategic choice that Microsoft had to un-EOL XP in order to try to win some of the new Netbook market, which was 100% linux for many months. | Nov 24 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | correct | Nov 24 16:25 |
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| kentma | Windows shows poor market share in devices, a dreadful performance in mobile, virtually nothing on ARM, the biggest selling architecture on the planet, more or less nothing in telco boxes and/or routers... | Nov 24 16:25 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: yes, from OOo 0_o | Nov 24 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | In KDE | Nov 24 16:29 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, it would not hurt my feelings if linux market share shot up in desktop but I wont hold my breath in the short term anyway ;) | Nov 24 16:31 |
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| PetoKraus | bloody hyell! | Nov 24 16:31 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, good grief no winder,,they based it o go-oo build ! | Nov 24 16:31 |
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| neighborlee | PetoKraus, lol | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| PetoKraus | the net just fell | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| neighborlee | heh | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| PetoKraus | ... like, straight down | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| neighborlee | sky falling my little chicken ;) | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| neighborlee | heh | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| PetoKraus | i couldn't even ping my wireless router | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| neighborlee | o_0 | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| PetoKraus | the router didn't restart tho | Nov 24 16:32 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: the 1970s desktop view is very dead. Linux is around 40% of the netbook market already, though. | Nov 24 16:33 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: are you familiar with the "tipping point" concept from Malcolm Gladwell? | Nov 24 16:34 |
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| neighborlee | nope | Nov 24 16:35 |
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| neighborlee | no time, no time@@ | Nov 24 16:35 |
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| neighborlee | sorry another episodic borrow ;))heheh | Nov 24 16:35 |
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| neighborlee | this time from voyager ;) | Nov 24 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | anyhoo-- | Nov 24 16:36 |
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| kentma | ah, okay - basically, it's more socio-economics. He's written a book which is a fairly quick read about this. | Nov 24 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | ah | Nov 24 16:36 |
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| kentma | Ahh, voyager, the ship which breaks down every episode, uses transporter and holo-deck technology to fix everything, so long as there's no interference. Oh yeah, and has shuttles from the 23rd Century which can't get through a storm without failing... I know the one! | Nov 24 16:37 |
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| neighborlee | I still say linux could use having ONE distro to rule them all! | Nov 24 16:37 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: did you read my remarks regarding tight-coupling and the problems that causes? | Nov 24 16:37 |
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| neighborlee | ha | Nov 24 16:37 |
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| neighborlee | yes | Nov 24 16:37 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: then perhaps you can see that a distro optimised for a mobile phone will be different to one for a supercomputer? | Nov 24 16:38 |
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| neighborlee | even windows has differing OS"s based on the hardware, so that doens't say much | Nov 24 16:38 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: but linux uses the *same* kernel... this is critical! | Nov 24 16:38 |
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| neighborlee | thats becoming more standards lately yes, which im glad to see | Nov 24 16:40 |
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| neighborlee | but I doubt all major distros use the same one..or do they...maybe fianally they do ? | Nov 24 16:40 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: linux has pretty much always been one kernel - there have been occasional branches, but the code base remains the same. | Nov 24 16:40 |
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| neighborlee | but beyond that, there are many differences, some huge some not ;) | Nov 24 16:40 |
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| kentma | they remain the same code base - the windows ones are not. | Nov 24 16:41 |
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| neighborlee | hm ic..didn't know this. | Nov 24 16:41 |
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| PetoKraus | well, great example is E17 | Nov 24 16:42 |
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| PetoKraus | which has plugins to make it work on treo 650 / freerunner etc | Nov 24 16:42 |
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| PetoKraus | it's just a module, but it changes quite a lot of the appearance (fullscreen menus, etc) | Nov 24 16:42 |
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| PetoKraus | (don't have a treo phone, can't try ) | Nov 24 16:43 |
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| neighborlee | hmmmm | Nov 24 16:43 |
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| neighborlee | yes Im big into E17..I Like that it gives eye candy for those that like it without big price of 3d driver | Nov 24 16:43 |
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| neighborlee | which Im going to install soon as I find time to deal with it | Nov 24 16:43 |
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| neighborlee | on top of lenny which atm is working great btw ;) | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| PetoKraus | well, i'm using lenny on my server | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| neighborlee | :) | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| PetoKraus | it's good for a system you don't care about | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| PetoKraus | you just install, and it works | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| neighborlee | my 3d driver is slow'ish atm gotta look into that one.... | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| PetoKraus | neighborlee: card? | Nov 24 16:44 |
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| Omar87 | So, os it true that Slashdot has some stuff to do with Microsoft? | Nov 24 16:48 |
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| Omar87 | is* it true... | Nov 24 16:48 |
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| neighborlee | PetoKraus, I have no idea,but no its not the card,,,maybe a bad driver I dunno yet | Nov 24 16:53 |
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| neighborlee | PetoKraus, ie: 8800GTX | Nov 24 16:53 |
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| PetoKraus | nvidia :/ | Nov 24 16:53 |
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| neighborlee | yes | Nov 24 16:54 |
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| neighborlee | and it works fine here in vista , though I had to finally get 3 gigs of ram for even that to be true LOL | Nov 24 16:54 |
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| neighborlee | I mean OS wise, not the card. | Nov 24 16:54 |
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| neighborlee | and it works fine in mandiva livecd..actually | Nov 24 16:55 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: the point is that nobody could afford to redevelop another kernel in the traditional, proprietary, way, so we're kind of stuck with the current set for the time being, like it or not. | Nov 24 16:55 |
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| neighborlee | ive never seen such a fast OS as the mandriva livecd,,2009 I think, but then its mono laced so I wont go near it | Nov 24 16:55 |
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| neighborlee | sadly | Nov 24 16:55 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, did you mean the manddriva oo issue means mono is gone entirely or what,,sorry if I m issed something..I have a few tabs open here in xchat ;) | Nov 24 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | Omar87: yes | Nov 24 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | Search BN for details | Nov 24 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: they ought to use OOo. We're working at it (all of us)... you need to emphasise that it's an evil fork of Microsoft/Novell. | Nov 24 17:00 |
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| trmanco | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread... | Nov 24 17:04 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, yes | Nov 24 17:11 |
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| neighborlee | kentma, sounds fair | Nov 24 17:12 |
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| neighborlee | though I know next to squat about kernels etal ;) | Nov 24 17:12 |
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| kentma | neighborlee: you don't need to - consider this - the current best estimate is that it would cost around US$1.4bn to develop a linux, at *today's* prices. | Nov 24 17:13 |
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| kentma | most companies run at a margin of, say, about 5-10%. Assume 10%, then development would consume revenue of US$14bn. | Nov 24 17:14 |
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| kentma | that's with *nothing* else going on, so a real company would need to have other revenue in order to make a profit, too. | Nov 24 17:14 |
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| kentma | then, they'd have to port applications to it in order to create a new distro, even if they re-use the existing applications set, rather than create a new one. | Nov 24 17:15 |
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| kentma | Consider that Microsoft tried this with Vista, and it's been a resounding failure - who would risk doing it again? And that was developing from an existing codebase (nt5.1), not starting from scratch. | Nov 24 17:16 |
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| _doug | Linux recipe book .. | Nov 24 17:21 |
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| _doug | http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/579 | Nov 24 17:21 |
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| _doug | I wonder do IV now own all the recipes, as they are now running on a machine ? | Nov 24 17:21 |
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| _doug | "A patent-eligible process must both be physical in nature and must produce a useful, concrete and tangible result" | Nov 24 17:23 |
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| _doug | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?st... | Nov 24 17:23 |
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| _doug | http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_... | Nov 24 17:23 |
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| _doug | The Linux Cookbook .. | Nov 24 17:24 |
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| _doug | something for seller_liar: "Tips and Techniques for Everyday Use" | Nov 24 17:25 |
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| _doug | good tip: if you are new to Open Source, there are facilities available locally that may be of use to you before you jump in, they're called libraries, and have a number of usefull utilities that may help advance your knowlege, they're called books ... !!! | Nov 24 17:29 |
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| twitter | ./ covers Groklaw's Bilski opinion. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?si... | Nov 24 17:34 |
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| twitter | twitter writes "P.J.'s concludes her look at the Bilski decision: 'you'll recall patent lawyer Gene Quinn immediately wrote that it was bad news for Microsoft, that "much of the Microsoft patent portfolio has gone up in smoke" because, as Quinn's partner John White pointed out to him, "Microsoft doesn't make machines." Not just Microsoft. His analysis was that many software patents that had issued prior to Bilski, depending on | Nov 24 17:35 |
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| twitter | :) | Nov 24 17:35 |
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| schestowitz | Don't listen on lawyers on patents, esp. patent lawsyers. | Nov 24 17:37 |
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| schestowitz | The funny thing is that some JUDGES has vested interests. | Nov 24 17:37 |
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| schestowitz | It's weird how BN grew since the protest in India. | Nov 24 17:38 |
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| PetoKraus | doh, ppl want EXT4 as default in ubuntu | Nov 24 17:38 |
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| trmanco | as an option | Nov 24 17:42 |
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| trmanco | it is better | Nov 24 17:42 |
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| trmanco | and safer | Nov 24 17:42 |
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| twitter | The Groklaw opinion quotes a lot of lawyers, especially tax lawyers who hate software patents. | Nov 24 17:43 |
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| twitter | Big in India is really big. They have more than a billion people, right? | Nov 24 17:44 |
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| PetoKraus | trmanco: i am talking about people wanting it as DEFAULT | Nov 24 17:44 |
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| PetoKraus | not as an option. Obviously, it should be an option | Nov 24 17:44 |
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| twitter | Is ext4 ready? File systems were easy to chose when I installed Ubuntu last week. | Nov 24 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: Heh. No billion, no... but it's not about India. That action of their was further endorsement of the site as a campaign. | Nov 24 17:47 |
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| twitter | Yeah, the incident was ugly. | Nov 24 17:47 |
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| PetoKraus | twitter: it is ready according to linus. It is ready according to fedora. though, the deployment, especially on / partition is troublesome - you can't boot from ext4 until you have grub2 up and running... | Nov 24 17:48 |
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| twitter | is grub2 ready? | Nov 24 17:49 |
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| twitter | I've got version 0.97 on Lenny. | Nov 24 17:49 |
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| twitter | PJ also mentions the Novell deal in her assessment of the Bilski decision. | Nov 24 17:50 |
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| PetoKraus | it's not. it's under active development. That's why i think it shouldn't be default | Nov 24 17:50 |
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| twitter | Ha ha, I used the M$ death watch, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo... for my home page on the story, "Groklaw Says Microsoft Patent Portfolio Now Worthless" | Nov 24 18:13 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: in what context? | Nov 24 18:19 |
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| twitter | If you bother to click on the "twitter" in "twitter writes" you get the death watch, which contains this item and others. | Nov 24 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | hehe. http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-107742/buy-t... | Nov 24 18:34 |
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| trmanco | ext4 should have a some more years of usage to really know if it is ready or not | Nov 24 18:37 |
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| trmanco | -a* | Nov 24 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | ASUS CEO Says Linux Netbook Returns On Par With Windows < http://ostatic.com/177078-blog/asus-ceo... >. people will just remember the FUD though (4-1) | Nov 24 18:39 |
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| neighborlee | great news linux is making inroads at least | Nov 24 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | It is. | Nov 24 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | Keep up the good work, neighborlee | Nov 24 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | The only barrier now is FUD and legalize... Microsoft's last resort. | Nov 24 18:41 |
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| neighborlee | ey, I love foss so hey its no big thing, I do so gladly and in fulll honor | Nov 24 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | BN touches on that stuff almost exclusively. | Nov 24 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | I still advocate elsewhere... but the KEY things are not technical merit.s... Microsoft punches below the belt. | Nov 24 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Apple mostly ignores (neglects) Linux. so it's no big deal. The problem is that they promote things like DRM. | Nov 24 18:44 |
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| neighborlee | yes | Nov 24 18:44 |
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| neighborlee | I b adly want a android ;) | Nov 24 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | It's philosophically adverse to FOSS | Nov 24 18:44 |
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| neighborlee | of course :) | Nov 24 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | Which means that Apple or a proponent of Freedom suppression... whether it admits this or not. | Nov 24 18:45 |
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| neighborlee | all while usig bsd,,ironic ;0- | Nov 24 18:45 |
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| neighborlee | or some form of it,, | Nov 24 18:45 |
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| schestowitz | Key work: using | Nov 24 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | A certain company in your state does that too. | Nov 24 18:51 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, LOL, wow jose really went at it didn't he....woah I didnt see that coming :)) | Nov 24 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, if I carried on I'd not be doing any posts. | Nov 24 18:53 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Nov 24 18:53 |
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| schestowitz | I now realise why PJ does a post a day, having done up to 5 in the past. Comments are important too when you get attacked. | Nov 24 18:53 |
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| neighborlee | there is that | Nov 24 18:53 |
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| neighborlee | of cousre | Nov 24 18:53 |
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| schestowitz | Tell those barbarians to sod off: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/1... | Nov 24 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | What's with the market trying to devour itself? It's communism. | Nov 24 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | Nice game... http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&... ... how long before it comes to PS3? | Nov 24 18:58 |
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| twitter | The source article with EEEPC interview is better than the other piece praising MSI Wind http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-ceo-reveals-eee-p... | Nov 24 18:59 |
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| schestowitz | The bigger lie is still the one people remember. | Nov 24 19:00 |
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| schestowitz | Same with OLPC... Microsoft is using its talking points to spread stigmas. | Nov 24 19:01 |
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| *kentma has quit ("Leaving.") | Nov 24 19:08 |
| schestowitz | 8000 guides milestone reached... http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html | Nov 24 19:11 |
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| PetoKraus | twitter: i like how all of your comments, bar 3, are "-1 troll / -1 flamebait" | Nov 24 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/enterta... Still no GNU/Linux support and still... DRM. Can Auntie be saved? Or is it a lost cause like ISO? Think before shooting an injured deer. | Nov 24 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus / twitter: it means he's *watched*. | Nov 24 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | It's the same for me in Digg. | Nov 24 19:18 |
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| PetoKraus | well, doh | Nov 24 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | No matter if I give a polite and accurate answers. Hyenas don't speak English. | Nov 24 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Got to love this headline: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/20... : Microsoft in the Land of the Mafia | Nov 24 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | Just like in politics... the 'elites' say to those who fund them to sod off while they swap money. | Nov 24 19:20 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, imagine that...they might think they are clever, but in the end as more of this type of info gets out, they will lose bigtime .. | Nov 24 19:22 |
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| neighborlee | dishonesty is not what the public wants,,bush lost, mccain lost,,and so in time will M$ ;) | Nov 24 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I write about this. | Nov 24 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | The crime should be considered a BIG thing for FOSS even if it doesn't mention FOSS. It's the type of stuff standing in the way. | Nov 24 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft = payments, licences, bribe, etc. That's why tenders and bodies like ISO get easily corrupted. | Nov 24 19:26 |
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| schestowitz | iPhone 'freed' from Apple... iPhone 2.2 Update Gets Jailbroken < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1... > | Nov 24 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | This is like Shuttleworth and trolls... "we'll respond when the issue arises (i.e. when it's too late)"... Greenpeace: Companies Not Serious About Climate Change < http://www.pcworld.com/article/154401... > | Nov 24 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: Relax, Wii Motion Controls Don't Foster Violence < http://www.pcworld.com/article/154383/wi... > .. I know the writer of this... | Nov 24 19:32 |
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| neighborlee | in general of course they dont | Nov 24 19:32 |
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| neighborlee | but I do not like it when Nintendo 'accepts' very ultral violent games..its just idiocy. | Nov 24 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | The can sell "Nintendo Wii Black".. or Waack | Nov 24 19:34 |
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| neighborlee | but yeah.. | Nov 24 19:34 |
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| neighborlee | its clear , the wiimote was creaed , at least initially for clean fun, not gore hacks ;) | Nov 24 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | They have some sophisticated 3D technology... unlike the brute gory stuff. | Nov 24 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, last week I set my desktop such that I'm trapped inside the cube. Compiz is fun! | Nov 24 19:37 |
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| neighborlee | LOL | Nov 24 19:37 |
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| neighborlee | I should like to see this..hahaha | Nov 24 19:37 |
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| neighborlee | hmm, shades of phanton zone ey ? ;))) | Nov 24 19:37 |
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| neighborlee | phantom < ^ | Nov 24 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | Wait... screenie. | Nov 24 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmmm... import -delay 5 screenshot-2008.jpg ... it leaves me having to wait for the snapshot, but I can't rotate the image | Nov 24 19:46 |
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| schestowitz | OK, done. Fun with Mandriva: http://schestowitz.com/temp/screensho... | Nov 24 19:51 |
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| neighborlee | :) | Nov 24 19:52 |
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| trmanco | w00t | Nov 24 19:53 |
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| trmanco | broKen screen :-P | Nov 24 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | Ha! Finally. http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?i... | Nov 24 19:57 |
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| trmanco | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s... | Nov 24 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | "Speaking for myself, I'd have to say I feel a lot less threatened by Microsoft than I did a year ago. Don't you? I can't help but wonder if there ever would have been a "patent peace" deal between Novell and Microsoft if Bilski had been decided earlier." | Nov 24 20:02 |
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| schestowitz | Who said there's no money in Microwindows' security mess? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technol... | Nov 24 20:05 |
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| trmanco | http://www.cgisecurity.net/2008/11/article-w... | Nov 24 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | THis one seems like a hoax: http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakin... | Nov 24 20:10 |
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| trmanco | Spamhaus: Microsoft Now 5th Most Spam Friendly ISP: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securit... | Nov 24 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | I give up. :-) Can't find it. http://www.iphonesavior.com/2008/11/tina-sherman-... | Nov 24 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, I know. | Nov 24 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | I was going to post this later. | Nov 24 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | Actually, give me 10 minutes and I'll post it. | Nov 24 20:11 |
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| *schestowitz proofing | Nov 24 20:11 |
| trmanco | :-P | Nov 24 20:11 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, must have felt good to see the crash wasn't just you ;) | Nov 24 20:15 |
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| trmanco | http://searchengineland.com/microsoft-... | Nov 24 20:21 |
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| trmanco | lol, time for fresh start to stop all the bad reputation that Live has, they will probably market Kumo as 'a new search engine' | Nov 24 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | OK, done: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1... | Nov 24 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | Very long. | Nov 24 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: yes, it's good when others reproduce. | Nov 24 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | I think I've had the problem since 2004 (KDE 3.1 for me) | Nov 24 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: they always rebrand to make people come | Nov 24 20:29 |
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| trmanco | I don't think they had any success in that | Nov 24 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | Rebrand/redesign/overhaul/whatever | Nov 24 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about it in BN just 2-3 weeks ago, IIRC. | Nov 24 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | They should start with "A". It leave room for more choice. They can change names and invest people to a "new and improved" search engines called "A", "B" [...] "AA", "AB"... "GO"..."GOO".... maybe they'll catch Google in the year 100000000000000000000000 | Nov 24 20:31 |
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| trmanco | lol | Nov 24 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | Someone need to explain to SweatyB that not the name is the problem; the SE is cr*p. UTTER s* | Nov 24 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | The GUI makes it worse. Slow, clumsy... when I come to think of it... it's like Microsoft's native s/w... | Nov 24 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | They used to have hedious scrollbars in the SE back in 2005 or so........ HHHHOOOOOOOOOOOORRID. | Nov 24 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | Europeana digital library launches - and almost immediately falls over < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticke... > | Nov 24 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | Moving away from McBush: International domain names get a bit closer and more European-friendly < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticke... > | Nov 24 20:39 |
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| trmanco | http://blog.foppiano.org/2008/11/2... | Nov 24 20:41 |
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| schestowitz | I like Thunderbird. | Nov 24 20:43 |
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| trmanco | some more Evolution stuff: http://dev.osso.nl/herman/blog/?p=372 | Nov 24 20:43 |
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| trmanco | me too | Nov 24 20:43 |
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| trmanco | http://yokozar.livejournal.com/19511.html | Nov 24 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the comment here: http://extensionofmymind.blogspot.com... Orwellian revisionist used to daemonise Anivar. :-o | Nov 24 20:46 |
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| trmanco | the power of free software | Nov 24 20:46 |
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| trmanco | I'm going to drop a comment saying "thanks", it the least I can do | Nov 24 20:46 |
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| trmanco | "I do this for free. I've been working on Ubuntu and Wine for about 5 years now, and sometimes when I'm low on money I find myself asking if it's really worth it. I struggle with a part time job to make rent, and dedicate the equivalent of a full-time job volunteering for Ubuntu; meanwhile, my consultant friends charge 150 an hour to format/reinstall Windows." | Nov 24 20:47 |
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| trmanco | "I ask myself if it's worth it. Looking at those user stats, I have no doubt that it is. Even if I'm only making a stick of gum's worth of improvement. Sometimes it's a thankless job, but then again charity usually is." | Nov 24 20:47 |
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| *_doug has quit () | Nov 24 20:47 |
| twitter | trmanco, yep, that's the Groklaw article I was talking about. Glad you like it, Roy. | Nov 24 20:51 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: interesting comments. I'm the same. | Nov 24 20:52 |
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| twitter | " PetoKraus: twitter: i like how all of your comments, bar 3, are -1 troll / -1 flamebait", I don't. But their little attempt at censorship has not been effective. http://slashdot.org/~tw... | Nov 24 20:54 |
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| schestowitz | Silly Munchkins. They draw attention to you. | Nov 24 20:57 |
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| PetoKraus | it basically means you've got at least a bit of truth | Nov 24 21:00 |
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| PetoKraus | Since my youth (:P), I've been taught, that you should eat what your body wants. Especially when you are sick. Then, there is a slight problem - 1) what if you don't have apetite for anything at all, 2) what if there's nothing in the fridge which would satisfy your insatiable craving for X, while having only €£2.20 on your account till friday? | Nov 24 21:02 |
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| PetoKraus | i could use a glass of scotch. | Nov 24 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | Does scotch compile with wine? | Nov 24 21:04 |
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| PetoKraus | i wouldn't mix them | Nov 24 21:06 |
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| twitter | Almost all of the comments for the Groklaw story are crap flood, damage control and denial of the obvious. | Nov 24 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Really? I haven't looked. Do they heckle? In GL or /.? | Nov 24 21:07 |
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| twitter | There's some GL heckling but it's mostly denial. M$'s patent threats are "hot air, they don't need them, this is not a big deal" bullshit. | Nov 24 21:14 |
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| twitter | Some really old trolls came out for it. Like this guy http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?si... | Nov 24 21:16 |
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| twitter | If you go visit him, he's all about promoting M$, Silverblight and associated crap. | Nov 24 21:16 |
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| twitter | http://slashdot.org/~Ed+Avis | Nov 24 21:17 |
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| twitter | nasty old troll. | Nov 24 21:17 |
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| twitter | Seems to like beating up his friends, http://membled.com/kenpo/, if that's really his homepage. | Nov 24 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | I see..... | Nov 24 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | It looks harmful based on the URLs you give here, but Microsoft *does* have people that comment-shill. | Nov 24 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Some people who advocate Silver Lies in comments are evangelists on the payroll. | Nov 24 21:23 |
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| twitter | Avis has bugged me before, I'm looking back through his history to see why. | Nov 24 21:30 |
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| twitter | As for the rest of the discussion, it's buried under a "turning machine" crap flood. | Nov 24 21:31 |
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| twitter | bbl | Nov 24 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | Here's why: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/1... | Nov 24 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | :-( Palm purges staff, chops products < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... > | Nov 24 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | IBM gets a little less free (CDDL): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/24/ibm_... | Nov 24 21:34 |
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| trmanco | Free Information, Disaster for Content Owners, Gold Mine for Google: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Free-Information-D... | Nov 24 21:34 |
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| trmanco | what is Ballnux? | Nov 24 21:38 |
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| trmanco | sorry for my ignorance :( | Nov 24 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/24/st... '“The court appreciates that there are severe demands on Mr Ballmer’s time; however, a busy schedule cannot ‘shield’ an executive from discovery,” said the judge./ | Nov 24 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | Ballnux=suse|turbolinux|*spire|xandros | Nov 24 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmer Linux=Ballnux | Nov 24 21:38 |
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| trmanco | og, cool | Nov 24 21:40 |
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| trmanco | oh* | Nov 24 21:40 |
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| trmanco | a Ballmer made virtual distro | Nov 24 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | It's worth seeing what you can scoop from the unsealed E-mails: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic... | Nov 24 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | There's lot there that show which shills the Vole speaks to | Nov 24 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new... | Nov 24 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | If it ain't broken (BSD), don't fix it. | Nov 24 21:44 |
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| MinceR | bsd is pretty broken though :> | Nov 24 21:46 |
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| MinceR | (bsd init/rc and stuff like that) | Nov 24 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | IPV6 news: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/s... "Linux Foundation Workgroup Tackles Federal Mandate for Next-Generation Internet Protocol" | Nov 24 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | I hear that Microsoft just want DRM/NAC in its stack/channel though. | Nov 24 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | Gaining leverage by abandoning de facto standard code? | Nov 24 21:47 |
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| MinceR | we've never seen that before | Nov 24 21:48 |
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| trmanco | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=artic... | Nov 24 21:52 |
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| trmanco | the conclusion says everything | Nov 24 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | US companies move to Asia: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new... ( Micron might be abandoning the US ) | Nov 24 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo dissolving? Yahoo sells bargain shopping site Kelkoo < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/200... > | Nov 24 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | They should give away Zimbra too... put it in safer hands. | Nov 24 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Re: Endershill: "So it seems that he has email access to Ballmer while Ballmer was CEO of Microsoft. And the exchange seems to imply that Enderle had some kind of business relationship with Microsoft. Which kind of contradicts his claimed position as an "independent" industry "analyst".' | Nov 24 22:17 |
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| schestowitz | "Particularly during the SCO debacle where he repeatedly claimed that SCO was correct about "stolen" code." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?lts... | Nov 24 22:17 |
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| *_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 24 22:24 |
| *_doug has quit (Client Quit) | Nov 24 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Tim Anderson who got a Vista 7 laptop just wrote a review of Ubuntu: http://www.whatpc.co.uk/computeractive/featu... | Nov 24 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | Kumo... same rubbish SE... with a new wallpaper ( http://www.pcworld.com/article/15440... ), just like Vista 7. | Nov 24 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?page_id=425 "I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors. I have not accepted any consulting funds from Microsoft, any of its partners or its competitors for any studies/projects." | Nov 24 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | Worth digging into these E-mails if time permits... http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1737 | Nov 24 23:00 |
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| twitter | You are friendly and email Mary Jo Foley? | Nov 24 23:10 |
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| twitter | She needs to ask why Vista did not work with Intel graphics chips in the first place, when the same work with GNU/Linux. | Nov 24 23:11 |
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| twitter | My theory is that they drove Intel out of the market for GPL'ing the drivers. The "Vista Capable" scandal is not that they lied about Intel chipsets working, it's that the 800 lb gorilla dictating what chipsets would survive and which would fail. | Nov 24 23:12 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's code is poorly designs (monolithic, not modular), so it's bloated. Vista is another big step to oblivion. People won't buy dual cores during a depression. | Nov 24 23:14 |
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| twitter | Sure they will. If they buy computers, many will be dual core because it does make some things better. It's just that dual and quad cores will have to fit in the under $300 budget bin. | Nov 24 23:21 |
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| twitter | All that bloat, however, does not explain why Vista can't run on Intel graphics sets when you can play games with the same under GNU/Linux or XP. | Nov 24 23:22 |
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| twitter | It would be a good question for someone like Mary who claims that she wants to get to the bottom of things. | Nov 24 23:22 |
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| twitter | Here's something completely different. Sara Palin pardons a turkey and then lets herself be filmed like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-kjM1asH-8 | Nov 24 23:24 |
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| MinceR | gn | Nov 24 23:33 |
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| neighborlee | twitter, yeah its all over the news..nasty nasty | Nov 24 23:34 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmmm... wrong direction? Why I’ve switched from Thunderbird to Evolution < http://opencomputer.net/2008/11/23/why-ive-swi... > | Nov 24 23:36 |
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| twitter | Should have gone to Kontact. | Nov 24 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | Pardons? | Nov 24 23:41 |
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| schestowitz | I don't see it. | Nov 24 23:41 |
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| schestowitz | I was expecting her to do something stupid. | Nov 24 23:41 |
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| twitter | She was talking, that's dumb enough. Letting them shoot that camera angle and looking over her shoulder to smile is icing on the cake. | Nov 24 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the comments. | Nov 24 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | Well, that's McBush camp... send them soldats to Iraq... back to Wichita in a bag. | Nov 24 23:43 |
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| twitter | dinner time | Nov 24 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | Turkey? | Nov 24 23:44 |
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| neighborlee | OMG , what a PR nightmare :) | Nov 24 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | Don't miss the RMS links about the UK and US... | Nov 24 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: PR nightmare? She's not running anymore. | Nov 24 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | I can only imagine how women and kids will react to this... | Nov 24 23:45 |
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| twitter | mexi. Spiced ground beef, refried black beans, chopped onions, tomato, cheese beer tortillas. Turkey comes in a couple of days. | Nov 24 23:45 |
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| twitter | My wife was not amused by the turkey but it was hard for her to have a lower opinion. | Nov 24 23:46 |
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| neighborlee | exactly..,but there is no verification she wont try to run again for something later | Nov 24 23:46 |
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| neighborlee | twitter, there is that | Nov 24 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | True, that's ammunition. | Nov 24 23:46 |
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| twitter | She's done and will be lucky if she does not end up in jail for some of her pork barrel building projects. | Nov 24 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | It's stuff like this that makes me think of becoming a vegetarian, which would be hard (I'm into fitness and all... almost 100KG) | Nov 24 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | Pork barrel building projects??? | Nov 24 23:47 |
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| twitter | She built some crazy bridge an ice hockey rink and other stuff. | Nov 24 23:48 |
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| twitter | Standard fare but they got Ted Stevens with his hand in the pot. | Nov 24 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I thought about him. | Nov 24 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | He's canned, ain't he. But he doesn't have much life ahead of him... | Nov 24 23:49 |
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| *seller_liar (i=bd121e14@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0f1a64df0e62bf89) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 24 23:50 |
| schestowitz | He reminds me of Novell. | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| twitter | I used to think Edwin Edwards was corrupt. The rest of the country took him as a role model. | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | They bribed for the Wintel Games. | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| twitter | got to go | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. Winter | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | McCain had criticized earmarks from Palin < http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-... > | Nov 24 23:50 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, its only a mindset..I was raised on meat and potatoes, but my mindset switched after leaving home and meeting people whom gave me info and let me decided on my own..it was not a overnight decision I can tell you that, such things take a great deal of will power and mindset to overcome after many years of ,,training ;) | Nov 24 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | We'll all have to | Nov 24 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | Fish is running out and the population keeps growing, AKAIK | Nov 24 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | Some of my friends (couples) choose not to have children for various reasons. | Nov 24 23:52 |
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| seller_liar | It is necessary to educate people | Nov 24 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | It is, seller_liar | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| seller_liar | 1 equates to 100 children rich poor | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | You mean 1 rich to 100 poor? | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Like the ratio in this world? | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| seller_liar | But people agree that the rich have children | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Not always... | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| seller_liar | yes, because they buy more cars, but the world sujam | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Though I think the rich get divorced more, i.e. get more kids.. maybe. | Nov 24 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | That's a totally separate issue... distribution of wealth | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| seller_liar | And in today's society is allowed only have 1 child | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Where? | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| seller_liar | No, because rich cost more in the world | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| seller_liar | Sujam spend more and more the world | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| seller_liar | They are more costly to society as a whole | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | As far as I know, the rules in China are not even obeyed | Nov 24 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Besides, with wars looming, families fear having just one child. | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| seller_liar | I know, but in theory should be well | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| seller_liar | Should be well | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| seller_liar | It must be so | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | Is there any written theory written on birth rates? | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | I'm aware of one that says that developing nations will have greater population and birth if health and food permits. | Nov 24 23:55 |
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| seller_liar | No, but I think Japan is so strange the full | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | Based on something my dad read and explained to me anyway... | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | Japan has many people | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | Why? | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know. | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | Expectation of life? | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | They must rely on imports, I'd imagine. | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | They used to exploit China... made them slaves | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | Japan did not use condoms before the war | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | Also in Btasil | Nov 24 23:56 |
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| seller_liar | In Japan, Brazilian slaves are called dekassegui | Nov 24 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | In Japan?? | Nov 24 23:57 |
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| seller_liar | The big problem is | Nov 24 23:57 |
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| seller_liar | Very complex systems that sujam | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| seller_liar | Systems that pollute the environment | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| schestowitz | If the population can't regulate numbers, nature will. | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| seller_liar | Obsolecencia scheduled | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| schestowitz | That's the fear.. either floods, hungers, or wars. | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| seller_liar | WindowZ Vizta eg | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| schestowitz | Hungry people haven't a chace but to steal or attack (or be killed) | Nov 24 23:58 |
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| seller_liar | Do you spend more money on hardware | Nov 24 23:59 |
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| schestowitz | Than what? | Nov 24 23:59 |
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| seller_liar | Vista makes the user spend more money on hardware I mean | Nov 24 23:59 |
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| schestowitz | I never touch Windows/Mac OS | Nov 24 23:59 |
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| seller_liar | Sorry automatic translation | Nov 24 23:59 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: watch Wintel collusion | Nov 24 23:59 |
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