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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 8th, 2008 - Part 1



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PetoKrausummDec 08 00:02
PetoKrausso i submitted iwf.org.uk to iwf.org.uk for offending contentDec 08 00:02
PetoKrausthat huge red button is CLEARLY ripoff goatse!Dec 08 00:03
schestowitzBritish Government Violates Copyright < http://slated.org/british_governme... >Dec 08 00:04
schestowitzYes, I know you can't read it...Dec 08 00:04
PetoKrauswas that the one with the wordpress theme?Dec 08 00:04
schestowitzYes. There's also this: US presidential candidate is a pirate < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer... >Dec 08 00:04
schestowitzEnd of the Blog < http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/... >Dec 08 00:05
schestowitzBT and Phorm is not all... BT to cut off file-sharing customers < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php?id=14341... >Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz /WHAT/ files?Dec 08 00:05
schestowitzThat's what Web servers do... they share filesDec 08 00:06
MinceRgnDec 08 00:07
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PetoKrausit's like the priceless question i was asked once by VM tech support:Dec 08 00:08
PetoKraus"do you use software to download data from the internet?"Dec 08 00:08
PetoKrausno, i fucking type down ones and zeroes!Dec 08 00:08
PetoKrausGreat day todayDec 08 00:11
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PetoKrausduh, wrong buttonDec 08 00:13
schestowitzDownloading the InternetDec 08 00:13
schestowitzteh internetsDec 08 00:13
PetoKrausyeah, the tubesDec 08 00:14
schestowitzinterwebs.Dec 08 00:31
PetoKrausright, i've added ping monitor to my gkrellm nowDec 08 00:33
GoblinRFDIm off to bed...up early in the morning...take care all...Dec 08 00:58
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twitterI've decided that copyright should be abolished.Dec 08 01:29
schestowitzFor everything?Dec 08 01:30
twittereverythingDec 08 01:30
twitterI've used copyleft software for the better part of a decade.Dec 08 01:30
twitterWikipedia and other free information sources now take care of everything I need.Dec 08 01:30
twitterI don't see a real use for copyright anymore.Dec 08 01:31
twitterPeople want to share and they will.Dec 08 01:31
twitterCopyright only makes barriers to that sharing.Dec 08 01:32
twitterIf it were not for those barriers, P2P would create the world's best public library at next to no cost to society.Dec 08 01:33
twitterEvery piece of information and entertainment would be available for everyone.Dec 08 01:33
twitterThis is too great a prize to sacrifice for the very few people who will be discouraged from creating works.Dec 08 01:35
twitterThe only thing that gives me pause is news, but even there people will find a way to produce things, like The Guardian does.Dec 08 01:36
schestowitzWhat about books that people want to stay unique?Dec 08 01:38
schestowitzCopyright will probably topple itself anyway.Dec 08 01:39
twitterI don't understand what you mean by a book that stays unique.Dec 08 01:39
schestowitzPeople prefer PDFs/ODFs they can download quickly. Some people still love the smell of books and few will go through a debit card page.Dec 08 01:39
schestowitzCOpyright is seen as needed by the unwashed messes, so to speakDec 08 01:40
schestowitzPeople are taught not to shareDec 08 01:40
twitterbrainwashDec 08 01:40
schestowitzThey are told that they will make money this wayDec 08 01:40
twitterpeople share all the time.Dec 08 01:40
schestowitzNo, I didn't mean brainwash in this caseDec 08 01:40
schestowitzBut there's no scarcity anymoreDec 08 01:41
twitterpeople need to be shown that prizeDec 08 01:41
schestowitzNo share, no business.Dec 08 01:41
twitterwho's business?Dec 08 01:41
schestowitzProprietary software companies learn this the hard way now.Dec 08 01:41
twitterthey are the worst offendersDec 08 01:41
schestowitzPeople would rather download Drupal in 5 minutes than buy a licence from some blob and be locked in to one vendorDec 08 01:41
twittereveryone would rather have everythingDec 08 01:42
twitterNapster proved it.Dec 08 01:42
twitterand the music industry flourished while Napster was aliveDec 08 01:43
twitterOther things, like scientific journals, should be easier to come by than Prince songs.Dec 08 01:43
schestowitzThey are funded by taxDec 08 01:46
schestowitzThis is an absurdityDec 08 01:46
schestowitzThose who fund the research have no access to the outcomeDec 08 01:46
schestowitzThe Land of "Nothing for free" < http://samba.org/samba/news/artic... >Dec 08 01:48
schestowitzPush for open access to research < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techno... >Dec 08 01:48
twitterA few things will have to be forbidden still, but they are not so much a matter of copyright as matter of privacy.Dec 08 01:48
twitterFor instance, it would be wrong for people to claim you endorse something you don't.  Your works should not be used for the advertising if you don't want because it's fraud.Dec 08 01:49
twitterYour image, is much the same, but that's more privacy.Dec 08 01:49
twitterbbl, babies and the wife are crying.Dec 08 01:50
twitterooooohhhhhh, no peace.Dec 08 01:54
schestowitzWhat's wrong?Dec 08 01:55
twitterjust screaming babies.Dec 08 01:55
schestowitzIt sounds like you have more important duties there.Dec 08 01:55
twitterthings were taken care of  as best as they could be :)Dec 08 01:56
schestowitzWhy is the wife crying?Dec 08 02:02
twitterThe wife was not really crying, just frustrated.Dec 08 02:03
schestowitzOh, *that* kind of crying.Dec 08 02:03
twitterall is calm now.Dec 08 02:03
schestowitzFor "Crying  out loud"Dec 08 02:03
twitterWe'll do the other kind if I don't find good work in the next month or two.Dec 08 02:04
twitterfrom "low point" " "These guys say they're going to cure  cancer, what are you going to do for us ?" is the request that anti-software  patent lobbyists have to learn to counter"Dec 08 02:04
twitterThey are not curing cancer, they are inhibiting knowledge which puts harms treatment today and puts cures off further.Dec 08 02:05
schestowitzYes, for self gain.Dec 08 02:06
twitterHe's talking about patents, which I still have some grudging, theoretical respect for.Dec 08 02:06
twitterNot business method or software patents though, those make me see red.Dec 08 02:06
twitterOthers have seen red over more legitimate patents and shown they are harming medicine and healthcare.Dec 08 02:07
schestowitzResearch funds can come from taxDec 08 02:09
schestowitzThen, knowledge can be pushed into a pool.Dec 08 02:09
schestowitzWhen professors make inventions while on tax money, the patents are assigned to the academic institute, AFAIK.Dec 08 02:09
schestowitzMaybe it's partial ownershipDec 08 02:09
schestowitzIndustrial knowledge should work in the same wayDec 08 02:09
twitterIt depends on the institution.Dec 08 02:09
schestowitzBillG and Co are snapping university patents to troll with right now (extortion)Dec 08 02:10
schestowitzIn India for example.Dec 08 02:10
twitterRogallo had his nifty wing ideas when working at NASA, he assigned them public domain because he wanted to but NASA considered the ideas his.Dec 08 02:11
twitterIV is going everywhere, bribing a few big U to screw the rest.  Very evil.Dec 08 02:11
schestowitzThey should be arrestedDec 08 02:12
twitterStallman is right to worry about patents being used to defeat freely available knowledge.Dec 08 02:12
schestowitzNot in land of the fee though.Dec 08 02:12
schestowitzIt loves corrupt people that loot other nations.Dec 08 02:13
twitterYeah but BillG's loot of China is not going very well.  People in Washington might realize they've been taken for a ride.Dec 08 02:15
schestowitzMr. Bean makes a move: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/07/embra...Dec 08 02:20
schestowitzI was just about to write about Microsoft's latest WA corruption.Dec 08 02:20
schestowitzDC that is, not stateDec 08 02:21
schestowitzBut I'm getting tired.Dec 08 02:21
schestowitz2:30AMDec 08 02:21
twitternight nightDec 08 02:42
schestowitzCya tomorrow. I'm doing one last postDec 08 02:42
twittercoolDec 08 02:42
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kentmamornin'Dec 08 08:20
MinceRj0Dec 08 08:45
schestowitzHeyDec 08 09:16
kapipimorningDec 08 09:24
schestowitzWhat's new today?Dec 08 09:27
kentmadunno... I was reflecting on the German Gov electing ODF... that's a massive step.Dec 08 09:44
schestowitzThey join many more.Dec 08 09:45
schestowitzOOXML was called "death format walking". They have nothing but marketing going.Dec 08 09:45
kentmayes, but German Gov is 4th or 5th largest economy in the world, UK is just behind...  this is a *huge* decision...Dec 08 09:48
kentmaoh - and the announcement of ARM and Ubuntu collaborating for a desktop computer is the first sign of the "death of the IBM PC"... killed by the mobility world.Dec 08 09:49
kentmaIt'll be a huge blow for AMD and Intel.Dec 08 09:49
kentmaVery interesting news is that eBay have finally realised that skype is worthless, so they're going to float it (ie., stop funding it).Dec 08 09:50
kentmacalls from skype to PSTN are very expensive anyway - it's cheaper to use your land line.Dec 08 09:50
schestowitzHow much will ARM devices cost?Dec 08 09:52
schestowitzWeirdly, I think Maplin already has them.Dec 08 09:52
kentmaThey're not all that expensive now - otherwise they wouldn't be in all those phones...Dec 08 09:53
kentmaand satnavsDec 08 09:53
kentmaand pdasDec 08 09:53
kentmathe netbook is the clear next step.Dec 08 09:53
schestowitzre: Skype, you must be biasedDec 08 09:53
schestowitzThe Telcos would love to see Skype going awayDec 08 09:53
kentmaeh?  no, it's just the costs.  skype off-net is extremely expensive.Dec 08 09:53
kentmaJust look at the numbers.Dec 08 09:53
schestowitzBut people will always find some voice P2P service... it's inevitable.Dec 08 09:53
kentmaOf course, but there's no money in it...Dec 08 09:54
schestowitzPeople are connected a lot of the time.Dec 08 09:54
schestowitzSo landlines can become irrelevant.Dec 08 09:55
kentmahow will people connect without a landline?  they can connect wirelessly, of course, but how do you know where they are?Dec 08 09:55
kentmaMobile networks use the imsei number to track people.Dec 08 09:55
schestowitzYes, I know.Dec 08 09:57
schestowitzThat's one of the reasons I don't use them.Dec 08 09:57
schestowitzThe main ones being other considerations.Dec 08 09:57
kentmaokay, but the infrastructure cost of being able to track people is very high indeed, and if you don't do it, people cannot be contacted.Dec 08 09:58
schestowitzFor authorities, there's lots to like about cellphones.Dec 08 09:58
kentmaimagine a position where everyone can only make outbound calls - the whole thing breaks down at that point.Dec 08 09:58
schestowitzHuman kind survived for hundreds of thousands of years without being contacted remotely.Dec 08 09:58
kentmayeah, legal intercept laws are so thorough, though, that tracking mobiles is just one tiny bit.  all your paper mail can be opened, all your phone calls listened to.Dec 08 09:58
schestowitzPaper mail?Dec 08 09:59
kentmayesDec 08 09:59
kentmaall your paper mail.Dec 08 09:59
schestowitzI'm joking. Well, people can search garbage tooDec 08 09:59
schestowitzThey doDec 08 09:59
schestowitzWho uses paper mail?Dec 08 09:59
schestowitzAll I get there is junk.Dec 08 09:59
kentmabills, bank account details, etc.Dec 08 09:59
schestowitzI'd say "open my mail.. and keep it" :-DDec 08 10:00
kentmamy point is that HMG can track every aspect of your life if they choose to.Dec 08 10:00
kentmahehe :-)Dec 08 10:00
schestowitzI stopped bank statements like 6 years ago.Dec 08 10:00
schestowitzWhich was hard because they were used to people requiring it.Dec 08 10:00
kentmaanyway, back to the story, eBay have realised that skype is worthless, so they're floating it off.  They got stung for a few €£billion, though.Dec 08 10:00
schestowitzWaste of paper and extra labour for Mr Postman.Dec 08 10:00
schestowitzYou could argue that by not giving redundant work you actually harm postmen  (and women)Dec 08 10:01
kentmaI'm about 50% electronic at the moment, but preferring to get more so.Dec 08 10:01
schestowitzkentma: I heard about people who were in the MI5Dec 08 10:01
kentmaah, no, post has never been in better shape - all that online purchasing :-)Dec 08 10:01
schestowitzBut you can limit what they getDec 08 10:01
schestowitzI was under surveillance in 2006Dec 08 10:01
schestowitzBy the network admin.Dec 08 10:01
kentmaah, yes, you said.Dec 08 10:02
schestowitzThey only told me afterwards.Dec 08 10:02
kentmahas that all stopped now?Dec 08 10:02
schestowitzI don't know.Dec 08 10:02
kentmadid you ever find the real driver?Dec 08 10:02
schestowitzPost!=FedexDec 08 10:02
kentmaparcel force == royal mail, though.Dec 08 10:03
schestowitzkentma: reason was the MunchkinsDec 08 10:03
kentmaAh, nasty people, aren't they?  Still, the new arrangement seems to work.Dec 08 10:03
schestowitzThat too will sufferDec 08 10:03
schestowitzWith the Depression and all......Dec 08 10:03
schestowitzYesDec 08 10:03
schestowitzNo signs of harassment of this kind since.Dec 08 10:04
kentmaSorry - what will suffer?Dec 08 10:04
schestowitzThe postDec 08 10:05
schestowitzEveyrthing willDec 08 10:05
schestowitzI could think of only one exception: public transportation.Dec 08 10:05
kentmaah, I think we'll see that post will increase, as people buy more things online, because it's less expensive.Dec 08 10:05
kentmaskype story here from earlier in the year:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...Dec 08 10:06
schestowitzA friend's parents work at the rail station, so they see rise in business, so to speak. They are understaffed.Dec 08 10:06
schestowitzYou're assuming that people will still buyDec 08 10:06
schestowitzThis was also an odd purchase... eBay and VoIPDec 08 10:07
kentmaskype was a brilliant con... there never was any money in it.Dec 08 10:07
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archive...Dec 08 10:07
kentmaMy school is doing well out of the recession, as people take their kids out of public schools.Dec 08 10:07
schestowitzTo private?Dec 08 10:08
kentmano, my school is a state school.Dec 08 10:09
kentmahttp://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/15/as-ebays-c...Dec 08 10:09
kentmapublic school == fee paying school (anyone can go)Dec 08 10:09
kentmastate school == british/EU citizens onlyDec 08 10:09
kentmagrammar school == british/EU citizens who've passed the 11+Dec 08 10:10
kentmacatholic school == british/EU who pass the religiousness testDec 08 10:10
kentmaetc.Dec 08 10:10
schestowitzIt impacts college too.Dec 08 10:11
schestowitzI can't imagine student loans going on the cheapDec 08 10:11
kentmaI'm sure the universities are getting worried.Dec 08 10:11
schestowitz.It can't be good for research funds.Dec 08 10:11
kentmaThey might have to focus on getting british/eu students rather than oseas ones.Dec 08 10:11
schestowitzI have some prof friends who are furiousDec 08 10:11
kentmaI'm not surprised... things are tough.  HMG should look at pushing more money into universities - better to have people studying than unemployed.Dec 08 10:12
schestowitzGood pointDec 08 10:13
schestowitzI thought the opposite though.Dec 08 10:13
schestowitzResearch is luxury.Dec 08 10:13
schestowitzI can't imagine many funds being available.Dec 08 10:14
kentmaAgreed, but consider that social security/unemployment benefits are also luxury...Dec 08 10:14
kentmaIf you're going to pay people to do nothing, better to pay them to study, I think.Dec 08 10:15
schestowitzYes, I see your pointDec 08 10:16
schestowitzBased on history, other options are making warDec 08 10:16
kentmawar is a really expensive play, though, and the public in general don't have the apetite they used to for it.Dec 08 10:16
schestowitzWell, it's a bad time to be a student like my brother.Dec 08 10:18
kentmaoh - where is he and what's his principle?Dec 08 10:19
schestowitzThe "war" thing is a worst case scenarioDec 08 10:19
schestowitzWW2 came about like 5+ years after the depression began, I think.Dec 08 10:19
schestowitzHis principal is computer science.Dec 08 10:19
kentmayeah, but wwII was also about the final collapse of the old european power structures, including the British Empire, plus the Japanese empire and the US empire.  The rise of the "common man", the collapse of aristocracies, a move to social justice, state healthcare and education, in fact, loads of massive change.Dec 08 10:22
kentmaI think that was one of the best positive outcomes of wwii, although one cannot neglect the intense misery for millions upon millions of people, of course.Dec 08 10:24
schestowitzI hear it's rough in the US though.Dec 08 10:25
kentmaYes, it's very bad, I hear, too.Dec 08 10:25
schestowitzPeople I know (friends and family) lose a huge proportion of what they have).Dec 08 10:25
kentmaIf they had money in shares or in banks, then there are problems, and that's about 95% of people...Dec 08 10:26
schestowitzYes, even housewives had sharedDec 08 10:26
schestowitzEveryone saw the casino making good returnsDec 08 10:27
kentmayeah... a saying from my Yorkshire youth "poor people should invest in gold and land".Dec 08 10:27
schestowitzBonds too.... lots of things tied to one-trick ponies like CitigroupDec 08 10:27
kentmayes... risky stufff...Dec 08 10:50
schestowitzEveryone pays for it (Citigroup) now.Dec 08 10:52
schestowitzBailout..Dec 08 10:52
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kentmaIt's very annoying that a few people have lined their pockets with €£millions, are now lounging around in hotels in the caribean, whilst the rest of us bail out the banking system so that they can return in 3 or 4 years and to it again.Dec 08 11:04
kentmaFurther, we should never have permitted de-mutualisation of bld socs, and never have allowed banks to offer mortgages, and never allowed retail banks to get into commercial banking, and so on.Dec 08 11:05
schestowitzIs this not a swing or power shift? Won't the east rise soon?Dec 08 11:07
trmanco http://icculus.org/prey/ Prey Linux Retail Client Released "An so it starts. Games are now being ported to Linux and MS loses it's strangle hold on the gaming market"Dec 08 11:20
schestowitzWhere is the quote from?Dec 08 11:21
trmancodiggDec 08 11:21
trmancohttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Prey_Lin...Dec 08 11:22
schestowitzI thought it would be odd for Icculus to say that.Dec 08 11:24
trmancoWhere will Linux be in ten years time?: http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/wh...Dec 08 11:25
schestowitzProposal for More Waste to Energy Plants in the UK  < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/12/7/55287 >Dec 08 11:26
schestowitz10 years is too much for predicationsDec 08 11:26
schestowitzAnd there will be greater issues than Free software.Dec 08 11:26
schestowitzFreedom of information for example. What good is a free tool if it can't pass information freely?Dec 08 11:27
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trmancodangDec 08 11:43
trmancowhy can't SQL statements be all the same in all the RDBMS'sDec 08 11:44
trmanco:|Dec 08 11:44
schestowitzYou can use abstraction layers.Dec 08 11:53
trmancoI'm still a newbie :|Dec 08 11:57
trmancoand I don't know what abstraction layers are :|Dec 08 11:58
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schestowitz..Can't believe some people /still/ defend lobbying, aka legalised bribery: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08/ms-lob...Dec 08 12:43
schestowitzOmissions of disclosures are only the tip of the iceberg. How quickly people forget that Novell to is paid handsomely by Microsoft, so it's only expected to advance Microsoft's agenda.Dec 08 12:46
schestowitz" Many Americans were misled into signing mortgages which they now cannot pay. This isn't the first time. The wave of farm foreclosures under Reagan, which wiped out the US institution of the family farm, victimized farmers who had followed government and institutional advice to take out loans." < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-d... >Dec 08 12:55
schestowitzCPJ's 2008 prison census: Online and in jail < http://www.cpj.org/imprisoned/cpjs-2008-... >Dec 08 12:57
schestowitzPetition for free Net in Aussie: http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/...Dec 08 12:59
schestowitz"Sad to say, this means that Bush's cronies have more or less won their war to privatize and loot Iraq, oil and all. They are likely to control the economy as long as the government in Baghdad is a puppet that "needs" the Bush forces to stay in power." < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-de... > Are Key Obama Advisors in Tune with Neocon Hawks Who Want to Attack Iran? Dec 08 13:01
schestowitz< http://www.alternet.org/story/109572/ >Dec 08 13:01
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PetoKrausi've got reply from Be sales teamDec 08 13:18
PetoKrausthey swear there's "no traffic throttling nor capping, nevertheless there is content filtering employed."Dec 08 13:18
schestowitzWhat content?Dec 08 13:20
PetoKrausno ideaDec 08 13:20
schestowitzContent is a bad wordDec 08 13:20
schestowitzIt turns information into something that's just bits and bytes to underplay it. We didn't censor information, we just 'managed' content.Dec 08 13:21
schestowitzOur friend Obama seems to be making friends with 'friends'.... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08/ms-l... ... Microsoft is no friend of net neutrality.Dec 08 13:21
schestowitzIntellectual monopolies, censorship, DRM... Microsoft sees that type of stuff as the future, but it's not alone. Nokia is looking for journalists' luv this week. Based on experience, they blend it with DRM and software patents. Choose Linux, not Symbian.Dec 08 13:23
schestowitzAnd problems other than culture and information show no signs of abatement, either. Brazil announces plan to slash rainforest destruction < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen... >Dec 08 13:23
EruaranhelloDec 08 13:25
schestowitzHeyDec 08 13:25
schestowitz http://www.getup.org.au/campaig...Dec 08 13:25
EruaranI joined GetUp's campaignDec 08 13:35
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com.au/article/269615/ant... "Opponents to the government's Internet content filtering scheme will take to the streets in a series of protests planned in Australia's capital cities."Dec 08 13:36
EruaranAlready characterizing protesters as "rebels" ?Dec 08 13:37
schestowitzWhere?Dec 08 13:39
schestowitzRebels is code word for people who resist iron fist abuse. It's right next to "terrorist" and worse than "activists" Dec 08 13:40
Eruaran"Anti Internet filtering rebels hit the streets"Dec 08 13:41
schestowitzIdiotic writer than. Wait until they call these rebels terror sympathisers or pedophiles. That always works.Dec 08 13:41
EruaranI always notice the subtle use of wordsDec 08 13:41
schestowitz"Pirates"Dec 08 13:42
EruaranNot protesters, "rebels"Dec 08 13:42
EruaranNotice its not called internet censorship its called "internet filtering"Dec 08 13:42
schestowitzDoes the dictionary already have an entry for "pirate" that says "copyrights infringer"? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/08...Dec 08 13:42
schestowitzSame thing.Dec 08 13:43
schestowitzSharing -> stealingDec 08 13:43
schestowitzOpposition -> RebellionDec 08 13:43
schestowitz"Value your freedom or you will lose it, teaches history. "Don't bother us with politics," respond those who don't want to learn."  --Richard StallmanDec 08 13:44
EruaranChina's censorship has resulted in a generation not knowing about the Tiananmen Square protests and massacare.Dec 08 13:44
schestowitzOr arrested for finding out.Dec 08 13:45
EruaranI saw a documentary on tv that highlighted the tragedyDec 08 13:45
schestowitzStealing is when someone loses something. If I pass my book to a sibling, I don't steal from the author. I just share what's already in existence. In digital terms, there's free duplication.Dec 08 13:45
schestowitzWords matterDec 08 13:46
schestowitz"If thought can corrupt language, then language can also corrupt thought." --George OrwellDec 08 13:46
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EruaranA journalist showed the famous picture of the "tank man" standing in front of a Chinese tank... they had no idea what it was. They asked if it was part of a parade.Dec 08 13:46
schestowitzThat's why people call the Iraq situation and invasion and practice repetition of it. Another word is occupation.Dec 08 13:46
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EruaranChinese students today have no idea what that picture represents... Students from the very same university that was at the center of the protests.Dec 08 13:47
EruaranIf you can control the information, you can control history...Dec 08 13:48
schestowitzYes, of course.Dec 08 13:48
schestowitzBut it's not just in China.Dec 08 13:48
schestowitzThere are records everywhere going missing or omitted from literature.Dec 08 13:48
EruaranJust an example which highlights the tragedyDec 08 13:48
schestowitzSome day in the future the Iraq invasion can be described like the "war" in Vietnam though control of pedagogues.Dec 08 13:49
schestowitzThen you make some nice films like Good Morning VIetnamDec 08 13:49
schestowitzOr Pocahontas. People love film and remember them... kids especially  (early experiences)Dec 08 13:49
EruaranWhen you have a moment in your country's history that was less than 20 years ago, and you're growing up in an environment where you'll never know anything about it... that is disturbing.Dec 08 13:49
schestowitzThat's normalDec 08 13:50
schestowitzBut what level of access does one get to info?Dec 08 13:50
schestowitzThe issue arises when Internet censorship, for instance, is being introduced.Dec 08 13:50
EruaranyesDec 08 13:50
schestowitzThe big media doesn't threaten voices.Dec 08 13:51
schestowitzIt just ignored them... as in "first they ignore you" (not giving attention if not giving 'bad advertising', which is an oxymoron)Dec 08 13:51
schestowitz /if/is/Dec 08 13:52
schestowitz*LOL* David taketh the pith... http://notnews.today.com/2008/12/07/uk-ci... (watch picture)Dec 08 13:52
schestowitzThe picture also appears here: http://notnews.today.com/2008/12/05/i...Dec 08 13:55
schestowitzMore US army brainwash in video games (this time it's not glamorisation of war for a change): http://www.pcworld.com/article/155097/a...Dec 08 13:58
schestowitz"Microsoft Corp. will deliver eight security updates next week, six of them marked "critical,"" Not to worry... just total hijack of the PCs is possible for a while longer.. pray while waiting... http://www.pcworld.com/article/155083/m...Dec 08 14:00
Eruaranmore work for us...Dec 08 14:01
EruaranMaybe I should start a movement for a court case against MicrosoftDec 08 14:02
EruaranOn the basis of criminal negligenceDec 08 14:02
schestowitzThat gets pricy. Microsoft is a marketing/law firm.Dec 08 14:02
schestowitzpriceyDec 08 14:02
schestowitzSince the early days Microsoft has stolen people's technology. Then it got busy erasing the pastDec 08 14:02
EruaranThey've had many years to turn Windows into a resonably secure operating system... to do the things we all know must be done in order to have an operating system that is resonably secure.Dec 08 14:03
*mib_d3pc41 (i=76039f9d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-20c93c51b585ef55) has joined #boycottnovellDec 08 14:03
EruaranSo, we should all sue.Dec 08 14:03
schestowitzObama Outlines Plan to Put Every Child Online < http://www.pcworld.com/article/15510... > Easy PEASY. Get all those machines the US dumps on Africa to keep away pollution... put DSL on it and dismantle the telecom's shared monopolyDec 08 14:03
mib_d3pc41anyone notice that the ibm/canonical announcement has been changed to include novell (and red hat)?Dec 08 14:04
schestowitzLots of companies want NOT to have children connected.Dec 08 14:04
schestowitzmib_d3pc41: when did that happen?Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41i just checked itDec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41check google cache here:Dec 08 14:04
schestowitzI saw one IDG article (CompututerWorld) where NOVL and RHAT/RHT are mentionedDec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:k6GXIobp...Dec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41yesDec 08 14:04
mib_d3pc41but before it was only ibm and canonicalDec 08 14:05
schestowitzHmmm... wait a momentDec 08 14:05
mib_d3pc41now novell and red hat is addedDec 08 14:05
EruaranCan you imagine a giant mesh network with its own search engine capable of recognizing both content and your friends online... It would be Google with web presence.Dec 08 14:05
schestowitzhttp://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressr...Dec 08 14:06
schestowitzCan't find SUSE or NovellDec 08 14:06
schestowitzEruaran: meshes scare them.Dec 08 14:06
EruaranA ubiquitous mesh network would be revolutionary.Dec 08 14:06
mib_d3pc41http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pre...Dec 08 14:06
schestowitzNo centralised control (censorship)Dec 08 14:06
mib_d3pc41there it is with novell and redhatDec 08 14:06
schestowitzOh wait...Dec 08 14:06
Eruaranschestowitz: I would call mesh the REAL web 2.0Dec 08 14:06
schestowitzIThat;s the following dayDec 08 14:06
schestowitz5/12Dec 08 14:07
mib_d3pc41ahDec 08 14:07
schestowitzMaybe they revised it. Let's see the diffsDec 08 14:07
schestowitzSometimes they have two press releases with similar pitchDec 08 14:07
schestowitzNovell did that with PlateSpin last weekDec 08 14:07
schestowitzTwo PRs, small differencesDec 08 14:07
schestowitzBut it's interesting nonethelessDec 08 14:07
schestowitzMaybe they announced a Canonical-oriented desktopDec 08 14:08
schestowitzThen Red Hat and Novell phoned in..Dec 08 14:08
mib_d3pc41yeah i only noticed it because of that same itwire story and didn't remember  other s being involvedDec 08 14:08
schestowitzIt was amusing to see Novell seemingly rebutting an article with me using some press release with an eerily similar headline.Dec 08 14:08
schestowitzWhich itwire story? The troll?Dec 08 14:09
mib_d3pc41the "why it will fail" articleDec 08 14:09
schestowitzmib_d3pc41: the first PR is about virtual desktopDec 08 14:09
schestowitzThe second seems to be a different product, but I'm not sure yetDec 08 14:10
schestowitzmib_d3pc41: Ha. yes, the troll.Dec 08 14:10
EruaranOne day people will have a network that is perhaps something that mesh is a forerunner of... and they will look at our day and call this the dark ages.Dec 08 14:10
schestowitzHe aggravates a lot.Dec 08 14:10
schestowitzIBM is stupid for marketing it as "Microsoft-free". They should market "free"Dec 08 14:11
mib_d3pc41Yeah it seems bold for IBM to come straight out like thatDec 08 14:11
schestowitzI want the IBM-free *and* Microsoft-free PC. They sell Lotus... stinkin' lock-in.Dec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41maybe they are pissed about MS backing SCO and it's a little slap in the faceDec 08 14:12
schestowitzAnd MOOXDec 08 14:12
schestowitzThey corrupted ISODec 08 14:12
schestowitzISO if tainted for some time to comeDec 08 14:12
EruaranI think its just that they see an opportunity in the marketDec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41no doubt, a least some nations had the decency to raise a stink about the ISO thingDec 08 14:12
mib_d3pc41USA noticeably NOT one of themDec 08 14:13
schestowitzThe cronies keep their chairs. There's also people like Alex Brown and Lunds Stocholm. The ISO got poined.Dec 08 14:13
schestowitz*poinonedDec 08 14:13
schestowitzEruaran: So does Apple (MS bashing)Dec 08 14:13
schestowitzThey are hypocrites, Apple especially.Dec 08 14:14
schestowitzThis < http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pre... > and this < http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cach... seem identical > (first two paras). No Mandriva for IBM?Dec 08 14:16
mib_d3pc41yeah sorry for the false alarm. I was going off memory of Novell not being in the original releaseDec 08 14:18
schestowitzIBM helps the kernel and Linux helps IBM sell hardwareDec 08 14:18
schestowitzThis is no charity to them. They owe a lot to F/OSS.Dec 08 14:19
schestowitzDoes anyone sponsor the FSF? http://www.fsf.org/associate/Dec 08 14:20
PetoKrausumm?Dec 08 14:20
schestowitzHeh. https://www.fsf.org/associate/car/Dec 08 14:21
schestowitzIt would be bad though if the FSF accepted money from companies.Dec 08 14:21
mib_d3pc41FSF takes money from companies: http://www.fsf.org/donate/patronDec 08 14:22
schestowitzhttps://www.fsf.org/about/leadership.htmlDec 08 14:22
PetoKrausi'm member #6128Dec 08 14:23
schestowitzIBM is there.Dec 08 14:23
schestowitzCol, PetoKraus Dec 08 14:23
schestowitzNovell was caught lying about supporting FSFDec 08 14:23
PetoKrausover a year now, i thinkDec 08 14:23
schestowitzJustin Steinman was the fool..Dec 08 14:23
mib_d3pc41It's funny too, because Microsoft has an internal program where they match employee contributionsDec 08 14:24
mib_d3pc41so there is a sizeable donation from that to the FSFDec 08 14:24
schestowitzThis is listed under FSF?? http://endsoftpatents.org/Dec 08 14:25
schestowitzWeird... it's the FFII guysDec 08 14:25
schestowitzping zoobab Dec 08 14:25
PetoKraushmm HP's thereDec 08 14:25
PetoKrausevil is becoming less?Dec 08 14:26
schestowitzOh, wait.. I seee...Dec 08 14:26
MinceRthe HP logo is funny thereDec 08 14:26
PetoKrausyeahDec 08 14:26
schestowitzEnd Software Patents is FSF-related... that only links to /Stop/ Software Patents, which is more FFII-orientedDec 08 14:26
PetoKrausMinceR: much better HP logo http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip...Dec 08 14:26
schestowitzH-P... turncoatsDec 08 14:26
schestowitzPerens left the buggersDec 08 14:27
MinceR:DDec 08 14:27
schestowitzBut they now have influence in GNOME... Stormy PetersDec 08 14:27
PetoKrausschestowitz: i dunno manDec 08 14:27
PetoKrausi am afraid my next box will be HPDec 08 14:27
PetoKrausi don't see dell or lenovo approaching AMDDec 08 14:27
schestowitzThe FSF site is small.Dec 08 14:28
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mo...Dec 08 14:28
schestowitzPetoKraus: Acer does AMDDec 08 14:29
schestowitzAlso NovatechDec 08 14:29
PetoKrausacer, come onDec 08 14:29
schestowitzIn the UK, go here: Dec 08 14:29
schestowitzhttp://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/Dec 08 14:29
schestowitzAMD, no Windows taxDec 08 14:29
PetoKraushttp://images.novatech.co.uk/titles/rang...Dec 08 14:30
PetoKrausi wish they sold the chick as wellDec 08 14:30
PetoKraus*were sellingDec 08 14:30
schestowitzThey can't . You can get the sofa though.Dec 08 14:32
schestowitzThey are  a shop, not a pimp.Dec 08 14:32
PetoKrausit depends how much you payDec 08 14:32
PetoKraus:)Dec 08 14:32
trmancohttp://colatrolls.blogspot.com/20...Dec 08 14:33
*mib_d3pc41 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Dec 08 14:33
trmanconew entry, and there is already an anonymous comment stalking schestowitzDec 08 14:33
schestowitz*LOL* "Roy Schestowitz is paid by Microsoft. He won't deny it if you ask."Dec 08 14:36
MinceRlolDec 08 14:37
MinceRschestowitz: are you?Dec 08 14:37
schestowitzYes. :-SDec 08 14:39
kentmapaid by MS - wow - how would that assertion be justified?Dec 08 14:39
schestowitzI help them document their crimesDec 08 14:39
schestowitzIt turns SweatyB on.Dec 08 14:39
MinceRlolDec 08 14:43
PetoKrauslolDec 08 14:51
PetoKrausthe PC i'd like to get costs $840 nowDec 08 14:51
PetoKrausit's the only thing that matches my requirements, thoughDec 08 14:52
schestowitzMine cost under GBP400, excluding the monitorsDec 08 14:52
PetoKrausthis is laptopDec 08 14:53
PetoKrausi hope the price will drop by the end of the summerDec 08 14:53
schestowitzGet a desktop+sub-notebook then.Dec 08 14:56
PetoKrausnahDec 08 14:57
PetoKrausi don't need a desktopDec 08 14:57
PetoKrausthis thing is basically exactly what i need - 14.1 White LED display with AMD Turion Ultra processor and Radeon HD 3200 IGP, huge HDD, wireless N and 12 cell batteryDec 08 14:58
PetoKrauswhat i "need"Dec 08 14:58
PetoKrausi specifically need celeron 2400...Dec 08 14:58
PetoKrausthough this would be "nice to have"Dec 08 14:58
schestowitzIntel??!Dec 08 14:58
PetoKrausintel?Dec 08 14:58
PetoKrausah, celeron you meanDec 08 14:58
PetoKrausno, i meant, that's the machine we use as our media serverDec 08 14:58
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron "The Celeron brand is a range of x86 CPUs from Intel targeted at budget/value personal computers—with the motto, "delivering great quality at an exceptional value"."Dec 08 14:59
schestowitzI have a Celeron right here (about 2.2GHz), but I haven't used it since July.Dec 08 14:59
PetoKrausi've got one this summerDec 08 15:00
PetoKrausit's this thing... 2.4, 512 MB ram, 500 GB HDD, wireless cardDec 08 15:00
PetoKraus€£100Dec 08 15:00
schestowitzhttp://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2... "Windows is the most common OS on the planet, and its usability as well as price falls somewhere in between OSX and Linux." No proof, no citations... more mythologyDec 08 15:02
schestowitzFirst hand?Dec 08 15:02
PetoKraus noDec 08 15:03
PetoKrausebayDec 08 15:03
schestowitzOh.Dec 08 15:03
schestowitzI got mine for GBP165 in 2005Dec 08 15:03
PetoKrausyeah, but i doubt that with 500GB HDDDec 08 15:03
schestowitzIt has no graphics card for multi-headDec 08 15:03
schestowitzNo, just 40GBDec 08 15:03
schestowitzI have two large external HDDsDec 08 15:04
kevin__speaking of microsoft, i am now a victim of what i was talking about the other day :(Dec 08 15:10
kevin__i have a laptop here which i have lost the recovery disks forDec 08 15:10
kevin__of course replacements cost over %100. my mother has an old pc that runs xp that she recently replaced. in a sane world, i would be able to remove the XP from that machine and put it on this oneDec 08 15:11
kevin__100$*Dec 08 15:11
kevin__the government should be standing up for our rights to do such thingsDec 08 15:12
schestowitzThe government is them.Dec 08 15:12
schestowitz(corporations that can afford lobbies)Dec 08 15:12
kevin__the worst part is, i have software that i need to run which only runs on windows. i do not want to support a company that does this to people thoughDec 08 15:13
kevin__if i buy a new pc, i am just contributing to the problem. perhaps i'll look for an old laptop just to avoid paying ,icrosoft againDec 08 15:14
kentmaI think you need to vote with your feet here...Dec 08 15:14
schestowitzRichard Stallman: "I'm always happy when I'm protesting."Dec 08 15:15
kentmaperhaps because he's not sitting back and letting the world happen to him?  He's standing up to it?Dec 08 15:16
schestowitz*GASP* "The lack of Linux support is also going to be an impediment, especially since Adobe is making such a vigorous effort to please Linux users now." Hands-on: building rich Internet apps with JavaFX 1.0 <  http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081207-h... > Dec 08 15:17
schestowitzSo it's GPLv2-ed but no Linux support? What is Sun smokin'?Dec 08 15:17
MinceRthey're smoking printouts of slowlaris source codeDec 08 15:19
kentmaIf it's GPLed, then it can be ported.  There's nothing in the GPL to say that GPLed code must run on linux...Dec 08 15:33
*kapipi has quit (No route to host)Dec 08 15:36
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovellDec 08 15:37
schestowitzYes, but look at ChromeDec 08 15:37
schestowitzOpen source means all sorts of things.Dec 08 15:38
schestowitzWhat da...? "He explained the components of their system. HydroPoint has seven software patents for a system that calculates eighteen variables for any irrigation or outdoor water use system. Things like weather, soil type, grade or slope, amount of shade, crop or plant varieties." < http://blogs.zdnet.com/green/?p=1513 >. This is like BM patents.Dec 08 16:08
schestowitz"The co-founder of Carphone Warehouse, David Ross, has resigned, after failing to notify the board that he used his shares in the company to underwrite personal loans." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/08/cpw_co...Dec 08 16:22
twitterFunny, http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/241488/vista-trigge...Dec 08 16:29
schestowitzLOLDec 08 16:32
schestowitz"Within minutes he'd submitted another, more heated update. "I have nine macs!!!!!! I don't need another f***ing mac. I just want ONE ARSING PC that isn't complete SH*T.""Dec 08 16:32
schestowitz"The pressure then really started to take its toll. "Listemn [sic] I have parallels, I have fusion, I have 2 distros of Linux. I need jsut [sic] one, just 1 of c***ing Vista so that I can review things."Dec 08 16:33
schestowitz"Dec 08 16:33
schestowitzNice to see his typos. Even Sir Fry lets them be... :-)Dec 08 16:34
schestowitzHaha. Look at the right side of the Web site (IT Pro)Dec 08 16:37
kevin__a class b subnetDec 08 16:38
kevin__i enjoyed that story about thumbdrives being banned btw :)Dec 08 16:38


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