IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 22nd, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-12-23 09:59:10 UTC
Modified: 2008-12-23 09:59:10 UTC

schestowitz	Novell incompetence (new): http://uk.youtube.com/wa...	Dec 22 00:22
neighborlee	schestowitz, the sun and # of patents thing really hit a nerve :)	Dec 22 00:27
schestowitz	"Roy, people said the same thing about IBM a couple decades ago. It's important for us as a community to give the black sheep of the family a chance to reform. If they fail to change, no harm done, things just continue as they have. If they succeed in changing, they could do a world of good." < http://ostatic.com/blog/will-open... >	Dec 22 00:27
schestowitz	neighborlee: /whose/ nerve?	Dec 22 00:27
neighborlee	Roy: irrelevant. Stop trying to change the subject.	Dec 22 00:27
neighborlee	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/20... <here	Dec 22 00:28
neighborlee	when will these guys get it..it doesn't matter if any attacks have been staged, it violates the gpl obviously but of course if they focus on that they immedately lose the debate..we would be in error to let them change that topic, speaking of changing things :)	Dec 22 00:30
schestowitz	Who is "MonkeeSage"? Is it a Mono persona?	Dec 22 00:30
neighborlee	I was kinda wondering myself	Dec 22 00:30
schestowitz	xxx.satx.res.rr.com	Dec 22 00:31
schestowitz	Never seen that one before.	Dec 22 00:31
schestowitz	Reminds of those monkey's in Jo's Web site.	Dec 22 00:32
schestowitz	*oops. Monkeys	Dec 22 00:32
neighborlee	yup there is that	Dec 22 00:32
schestowitz	I noticed your comment in Alan's blog earlier (I'm subscribed to that). Anyone who opposes Microsoft's .NET (oops... Mono) is not a rabid zealot and should be gaged.	Dec 22 00:37
schestowitz	*gagged	Dec 22 00:37
neighborlee	heh	Dec 22 00:41
schestowitz	The Mono ilk is flooding the site today. I spent too much time with like 200 comments.	Dec 22 00:41
schestowitz	It's like they sit there all evening, hitting F5 and waiting for the next chance to call me "an idiot" or something.	Dec 22 00:42
neighborlee	wow	Dec 22 00:45
neighborlee	thats alot of typing ;)	Dec 22 00:45
neighborlee	but hey, the war rages on :)	Dec 22 00:45
neighborlee	I wish konversation worked in windows..its much better I think than xchat,,	Dec 22 00:50
schestowitz	I've only ever used mirc (when I was 14) and Xchat (that would be more recently).	Dec 22 00:53
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mib_3wwnu3	hola	Dec 22 00:54
neighborlee	hi there	Dec 22 00:58
schestowitz	http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2008/12/20/w... "Patrick’s method is not going to hit problems like dev-scheme/chicken breaking most of the Mono packages (that would pick up /usr/bin/csc as the C# compiler rather than mcsc), or collisions between unrelated packages."	Dec 22 00:58
schestowitz	Hey, mix*	Dec 22 00:58
mib_3wwnu3	on the comments how to I "quote" someone? what are the tags?	Dec 22 00:59
mib_3wwnu3	comments on the main boycott novell site	Dec 22 00:59
schestowitz	<blockquote>	Dec 22 01:03
schestowitz	<blockquote>test</blockquote>	Dec 22 01:03
mib_3wwnu3	ha thanks much	Dec 22 01:03
mib_3wwnu3	back in to the fray then :)	Dec 22 01:03
schestowitz	If you botch it, tell me and I'll edit	Dec 22 01:03
schestowitz	Thanks.	Dec 22 01:03
MinceR	gn	Dec 22 01:07
schestowitz	Heh. http://loupgaroublond.blogspot.com/2008/1...	Dec 22 01:08
schestowitz	MinceR should read it.	Dec 22 01:08
*MinceR will.		Dec 22 01:09
mib_3wwnu3	did anyone read the "11 ways to create a successful linux distro" article?	Dec 22 01:31
schestowitz	I have, why?	Dec 22 01:33
schestowitz	I will post it tomorrow morning among the links	Dec 22 01:33
mib_3wwnu3	ah no biggie, just check out #4 on thier list. the idea of a "mono distro" is funny.	Dec 22 01:33
mib_3wwnu3	i mean don't most distros already include that stuff	Dec 22 01:34
mib_3wwnu3	that seems to me to be part of the problem, not a "feature"	Dec 22 01:34
mib_3wwnu3	i some distro out there including really old versions of mono and no mono apps or something?	Dec 22 01:35
schestowitz	http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operatin...	Dec 22 01:35
schestowitz	The Mono boosters who comment in BN try to push them all to 2.0.	Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3	ah. i see. but are some distros saying they won't go to 2.0? like they are only comfortable with the old versions?	Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3	i haven't heard that	Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3	most are all in or all out, right?	Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3	not saying they already have 2.0, but they aren't saying they will not update	Dec 22 01:37
schestowitz	I don't see why.	Dec 22 01:38
schestowitz	They are still lobbied by the Mono guards and Novell employees.	Dec 22 01:38
schestowitz	"Here, have a bug.. eat it"	Dec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3	exactly so. Mono-boosters make even more noise about upgrading thier packages	Dec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3	it's an attempt to create an aura of importance or relevance for mono that other packages don't receive	Dec 22 01:39
schestowitz	It makes the dependency greater	Dec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3	correct - like "if your distro doesn't have MONO 2.0 then it is old and pokey" or something	Dec 22 01:40
schestowitz	It also introduces more stuff that's outside the 'standardizes' C#	Dec 22 01:40
schestowitz	*zed	Dec 22 01:40
schestowitz	The issue is this.	Dec 22 01:40
mib_3wwnu3	oh no no no, they said mono was only the language and CLI because that's what ECMA covers	Dec 22 01:40
schestowitz	Mono 2.0 is manufactured mostly by Novell/Microsoft	Dec 22 01:41
mib_3wwnu3	they can't be moving the goalposts	Dec 22 01:41
schestowitz	This 'factory' includes 'Microsoft people' too, so it can pass (feed) the distros anything.	Dec 22 01:41
schestowitz	People warned about it in 2006, shortly after the dead had been signed.	Dec 22 01:41
schestowitz	Microsoft has a sort of committal access.	Dec 22 01:41
schestowitz	Goalposts already move. They 'forgot' about the Winforms issue by now.	Dec 22 01:42
mib_3wwnu3	so true and so sad all the same time	Dec 22 01:42
mib_3wwnu3	that's what people don't like to see - Novell/MS aren't going to stay within a little box	Dec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3	they are going to continually and incrementally spread	Dec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3	that's what companies do	Dec 22 01:43
schestowitz	LEt me see if I can find something	Dec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3	if you don't continually examine and address thier actions, you are missing the point	Dec 22 01:44
schestowitz	Back in 2007 I found a nice expression in the AUBuilder/ZDNet network	Dec 22 01:44
mib_3wwnu3	you can't say "oh this is an old debate or old news", because it is an ongoing process	Dec 22 01:44
schestowitz	Something about Microsoft sending Novell tot eh GPL parking lot every time it needs a gig done (e.g. OOXML translators to claim OOXML support from FOSS)	Dec 22 01:44
schestowitz	"[The partnership with Microsoft is] going very well insofar as we originally agreed to co-operate on three distinct projects and now we’re working on nine projects and there’s a good list of 19 other projects that we plan to co-operate on." -- Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO (2008)	Dec 22 01:45
schestowitz	"Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand." -- Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO (2008)	Dec 22 01:45
mib_3wwnu3	But I was told Novell was a "fierce competitor" of Microsoft?	Dec 22 01:46
mib_3wwnu3	It says so right in the OpenSUSE FAQ.	Dec 22 01:46
schestowitz	They're a young couple romancing. Won't be long before they get marries and have little monos.	Dec 22 01:46
schestowitz	Novell is the wife.. it like Big Mike's wallet...without it, it would fall apart.	Dec 22 01:47
schestowitz	LOL fierce competitor...	Dec 22 01:47
schestowitz	Watch Novell's site. They market Windows... Oh! and Migrations from UNIX!!	Dec 22 01:47
mib_3wwnu3	I know. I can't believe someone actually typed "fierce competitor" with a straight face	Dec 22 01:48
schestowitz	The pages about Windows being bad were torn down months after the deal.	Dec 22 01:48
schestowitz	mib_3wwnu3: back then (FAQ) they probably meant it.	Dec 22 01:48
schestowitz	Resistors like Ted Haeger and Jeremy Allison left	Dec 22 01:49
mib_3wwnu3	hmm... probably wished it - the FAQ is in defense of the Novell/MS deal, and they are trying to argue that despite the deal, Novell is still a "fierce competitor"	Dec 22 01:49
mib_3wwnu3	"There is no general strategic alliance. Novell continue to be fierce competitors of Microsoft, which should be evident by the openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise products."	Dec 22 01:50
schestowitz	Oh, I thought you mean the OpenSUSE FAQ.	Dec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3	no no i do...that is the opensuse faq right there	Dec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3	check out the first point	Dec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3	http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS	Dec 22 01:51
schestowitz	They love pointing at these. "I don't have a good answers, but these guys have something to say^H^H^Hspin"	Dec 22 01:51
mib_3wwnu3	they are talking out both sides of the mouth in that OpenSUSE FAQ	Dec 22 01:51
schestowitz	I haven't seen it in years	Dec 22 01:51
schestowitz	It's out of date	Dec 22 01:51
mib_3wwnu3	ah, someone i know just blogged on it	Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3	so it's fresh in my mind	Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3	:)	Dec 22 01:52
schestowitz	The OpenSUSE FAQ?	Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3	yeah	Dec 22 01:52
schestowitz	The Me and Ubuntu guy?	Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3	yeah	Dec 22 01:52
schestowitz	How do you know him/her?	Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3	he is me :)	Dec 22 01:53
schestowitz	Ah..	Dec 22 01:53
schestowitz	It came just before the 11.1 release.	Dec 22 01:53
mib_3wwnu3	yeah, maybe it caught a little attention due to the timing - that's what lead me to read the thing in the first place	Dec 22 01:54
schestowitz	Did they link to it?	Dec 22 01:55
schestowitz	They have 'sleeve ref' (off the sleeve)	Dec 22 01:56
mib_3wwnu3	i don't know what that is	Dec 22 01:56
schestowitz	Just something they pull out of their ars^Hleeve whenever they don't have an answer.	Dec 22 01:57
schestowitz	Like Mono FAQ	Dec 22 01:57
mib_3wwnu3	ah right that is my main problem with the FAQs	Dec 22 01:58
mib_3wwnu3	so many people point to them like they are some authoratitive answer	Dec 22 01:58
mib_3wwnu3	and they are no such thing, just something some dude wrote, and usually poorly referenced and argued	Dec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3	pet peeve of mine	Dec 22 01:59
schestowitz	it's a pattern. Like a song they latch onto. The good 'boosters' actually sing original 'renditions'	Dec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3	it makes thinking easy	Dec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3	or not-thinking	Dec 22 01:59
schestowitz	FAQ = "what he said"	Dec 22 01:59
schestowitz	'twas the same story with GPLv3. Some kernel hackers (most of them?) never read the thing but they said "no" cause Linus did. So you have some independent thinkers ushered by a flock who take it all at face value.	Dec 22 02:00
mib_3wwnu3	groupthink is always dangerous	Dec 22 02:01
schestowitz	It's military mentality. ,They take orders. It's dangerous.	Dec 22 02:01
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mib_3wwnu3	it strikes me as ironic in that I try really hard to read the references and analyze them, but I am the one accused of "zealotry"	Dec 22 02:02
mib_3wwnu3	maybe I am wrong, but it's not because I'm saying something I haven't thought about	Dec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3	I'm not just repeating the "party line"	Dec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3	that's another pet peeve ther	Dec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3	there	Dec 22 02:03
schestowitz	"zealot"?	Dec 22 02:04
schestowitz	That's what Microsoft hypocritically labels opposition.	Dec 22 02:04
mib_3wwnu3	exactly, it's an attack on the person, rather than the argument	Dec 22 02:04
schestowitz	Government use words like dissident or terrorist. In China, they send people (forcibly) to mental clinics for it.	Dec 22 02:05
schestowitz	gn	Dec 22 02:15
mib_3wwnu3	nn	Dec 22 02:17
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tessier	http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2008/12/rumors-of-up...	Dec 22 07:29
tessier	You guys seen this already?	Dec 22 07:29
schestowitz	Hey, tessier wb	Dec 22 08:28
schestowitz	Microsoft layoffs began a while ago.	Dec 22 08:29
kentma	Human misery... Recession will bring much more of this.	Dec 22 08:41
schestowitz	Next year it'll peak, based on what I read.	Dec 22 08:41
kentma	My economist friend is of the same opinion	Dec 22 08:42
schestowitz	How warm is it in Canada? Are you out on the beach having a PiÃÂ±a colada? ;-)	Dec 22 08:42
kentma	Hehe -snowmen and igloos atm.	Dec 22 08:43
kentma	I like going to north america, it makes me realise hoow good uk's ttemperate weather is :-)	Dec 22 08:44
kentma	A pplane slipped off a runway in denver yesterday...	Dec 22 08:44
kentma	Sorry about spellings, on n800	Dec 22 08:46
kentma	Oh - bought acer aspire 1 yesterday - everone loves it	Dec 22 08:46
kentma	Everyone	Dec 22 08:46
schestowitz	Was the crew and passengers safe?	Dec 22 08:47
schestowitz	*Were	Dec 22 08:47
kentma	Several injuries, but thankfully none dead	Dec 22 08:47
kentma	Ice on runway	Dec 22 08:47
kentma	The fantasy of losing worst 10% merely results in an enron	Dec 22 08:53
schestowitz	Do you know abiut MS?	Dec 22 08:55
kentma	What about ms?	Dec 22 08:58
schestowitz	http://www.billparish.com/msftfrau... "Many believe that the stock market crash of 1929 caused the Great Depression yet history clearly shows that it was instead simply bad government policy that was manipulated by leaders such as Insull. Today many now fear a similar stock market crash but in reality the economy is very strong and, if we can reform this pyramid at Microsoft, the overall market should not need to correct mo	Dec 22 08:59
schestowitz	re than 20 percent."	Dec 22 08:59
schestowitz	“Microsoft’s perspective is best reflected by Bob Herbold, Chief Operating Officer, to whom the CFO reports. Bob very sincerely replied, “Bill, everyone is doing it.” My response was that Microsoft is a leader and that others are now seeking to emulate these fraudulent practices they have legitimized. "	Dec 22 08:59
schestowitz	Who will be the next Maduffocker?	Dec 22 08:59
kentma	Good question... The corruption in the us economy has been clear for years.	Dec 22 09:00
schestowitz	It was a norm	Dec 22 09:02
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trmanco	MAFIA A	Dec 22 10:19
schestowitz	Grade-A mafia	Dec 22 10:24
trmanco	indeed	Dec 22 10:25
trmanco	http://brandybuck.site40....	Dec 22 10:33
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schestowitz	Famous photo	Dec 22 10:42
trmanco	and a funny one too	Dec 22 10:51
schestowitz	It's a Microsoft leak	Dec 22 10:51
trmanco	LOL	Dec 22 10:51
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trmanco	http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-content/uplo...	Dec 22 11:20
trmanco	http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253	Dec 22 11:21
schestowitz	Flash?	Dec 22 11:21
schestowitz	Eek.	Dec 22 11:21
schestowitz	They should copyleft it rather than take pride in copyrights	Dec 22 11:22
trmanco	Live Search Continues to Lose Ground to Google: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Live-Searc...	Dec 22 11:26
schestowitz	Yes, thanks.	Dec 22 11:31
schestowitz	I'll just do many MS links. I'm tired	Dec 22 11:31
trmanco	Vulnerabilities in several virus scanners: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/...	Dec 22 11:33
trmanco	here is another one	Dec 22 11:33
trmanco	"I'm Linux" Video Contest Will Probably Be a Forking Mess: http://gizmodo.com/5115140/im-linux-video-c...	Dec 22 11:40
trmanco	forking mess, c'mon :\|	Dec 22 11:40
schestowitz	Hehe.	Dec 22 12:03
trmanco	I have an idea	Dec 22 12:26
trmanco	see this >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6404294&...	Dec 22 12:28
trmanco	I'll post this kind of stuff on COLA like Homer is doing :-P	Dec 22 12:29
schestowitz	As in...? Microsoft idea's are "people grouping in a comfy office coordinating the crashing of PS3 launch parties" :-)	Dec 22 12:29
schestowitz	*ideas.	Dec 22 12:29
*schestowitz looks		Dec 22 12:29
trmanco	what do you think?	Dec 22 12:29
MinceR	hay	Dec 22 12:30
schestowitz	trmanco: go with it.	Dec 22 12:30
trmanco	:D	Dec 22 12:30
trmanco	this one was just sent	Dec 22 12:35
*trmanco find some more		Dec 22 12:35
*trmanco finds some more		Dec 22 12:35
trmanco	schestowitz, you are doing good work >> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/show...	Dec 22 12:52
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schestowitz	I never saw that before, so thanks.	Dec 22 12:56
trmanco	I'm looking for some Fedora testimonials	Dec 22 12:57
trmanco	I found this so far	Dec 22 12:57
trmanco	http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showp...	Dec 22 12:57
trmanco	:( php 2 doesn't have the single post thingy	Dec 22 13:09
trmanco	phpbb*	Dec 22 13:09
trmanco	LOOL	Dec 22 13:13
trmanco	schestowitz, look -> http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy...	Dec 22 13:13
trmanco	:-p	Dec 22 13:13
schestowitz	I never saw that.	Dec 22 13:19
schestowitz	I concentrate so much on advocating that i don't often see the response (other than in USENET, bar the killfile)	Dec 22 13:19
trmanco	you are everywhere :-P	Dec 22 13:21
trmanco	what the heck? -> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li...	Dec 22 13:22
schestowitz	I've just got another request to start censoring BN	Dec 22 13:30
schestowitz	Yesterday was too much for some readers (over 200 comments, mostly from anti-BN crowd)	Dec 22 13:30
trmanco	censoring?	Dec 22 13:30
trmanco	requested from who?	Dec 22 13:30
schestowitz	Moderating	Dec 22 13:31
schestowitz	trmanco: one regular reader. I might write about it later	Dec 22 13:31
trmanco	ok	Dec 22 13:31
schestowitz	He's not the first	Dec 22 13:31
schestowitz	Some people think that heckling ruins the site	Dec 22 13:31
schestowitz	You can't even discuss things with Asay or O'Reilly without a bunch of monsters like G Michaels throwing dirty diapers everywhere.	Dec 22 13:32
trmanco	lol	Dec 22 13:32
trmanco	I laughed -> "dirty diapers"	Dec 22 13:32
schestowitz	Some think the hecklers coordinate this, but I think it's only true to a limited extent (some few ones know others from other activities).	Dec 22 13:33
trmanco	http://bash.org/?152037	Dec 22 13:59
trmanco	http://lwn.net/Articles/292995/	Dec 22 14:02
schestowitz	Interesting comment from Sam: http://tuxdeluxe.org/node/288 "1. Though Novell bought Ximian in August 2003 and SuSE three months, it is unlikely that it would not have decided on the SuSE purchase before buying Ximian. Which company would buy an outfit selling a commercial Linux desktop without having a Linux distribution among its products in order to sell that desktop?"	Dec 22 14:30
schestowitz	The Gralla MShill is attacking Linux again.	Dec 22 14:32
schestowitz	Must be a pre-xmas attack before those January layoffs at Microsoft people talk about.	Dec 22 14:33
schestowitz	Tech Centers Go Green Despite Cuts < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155857/... >; meanwhile they do lots more damage elsewhere.	Dec 22 14:37
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schestowitz	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-de... " Bush and his men must be held accountable for their crimes in Haiti. One point in the article requires correction: it assumes that Dubya was elected president. There is plenty of evidence that he stole both elections."	Dec 22 14:39
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schestowitz	I'm trying to find more MS intersections here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jac... (bg in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff )	Dec 22 14:56
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schestowitz	Egypt offline for weekend after Med seabed cables cut < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12... >	Dec 22 15:24
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schestowitz	LOL http://www.allhatnocattle.net/1-24-06_ab...	Dec 22 16:35
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Gates_&_Ell...	Dec 22 16:35
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schestowitz	zoobab: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ "(December 20, 2008) RealVideo 3.0 decoder added. Still working the bugs out, please test and report any problems."	Dec 22 18:14
schestowitz	How Microsoft is associated with the Seattle-based lobby/law firm Preston Gates & Ellis (Bill Gates' father), which employed the infamously-criminal Jack Abramoff: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/22/microsoft-g...	Dec 22 18:16
_doug	what did billg ever do to you :)	Dec 22 18:18
schestowitz	Nothing. It's not about him.	Dec 22 18:18
schestowitz	It's about a political muscle that involves some wealthy 'elites'	Dec 22 18:19
_doug	"CompTIA further contends that the serious and irreparable damage"	Dec 22 18:20
_doug	http://www.stern.nyu.edu/networks/Microsoft_...	Dec 22 18:20
_doug	how much damage did these micro-type practices do to the industry ?	Dec 22 18:20
schestowitz	2004?	Dec 22 18:20
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_doug	Not to mention BSA ..	Dec 22 18:21
schestowitz	"Association Inc. (‘CompTIA’) requested leave to intervene in support of the form of order sought by Microsoft in the interim relief proceedings."	Dec 22 18:21
schestowitz	All the shills..	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	ACT too..	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	158 Third, and last, Microsoft states that since the adoption of the Decision Sun Microsystems has reached	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	an agreement with Microsoft which addresses all the concerns underlying its complaint to the	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	Commission. There is therefore no immediate need to implement the Decision while the main action is	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	pending.	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	159 ACT claims that unless the remedy is suspended it will produce serious and irreparable effects owing to	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	the damage to the strength and value of its members’ intellectual property rights in the EEA.	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	160 More specifically, ACT maintains, first, that the immediate applicability of the remedy would constitute a	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	groundbreaking precedent in the compulsory licensing of intellectual property rights which would	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	quickly and substantially reduce the value of the intellectual property rights owned by its members. In	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	that regard, ACT claims that the Commission has interpreted and applied Article 82 EC in a way that is	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	inconsistent with the Community’s obligations under Articles 13, 31 and 39 of the TRIPS Agreement.	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	161 ACT maintains, second, that disclosure of the communications protocols which have thus far been the	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	exclusive property of Microsoft would result in the instability of Windows Client PC and server operating	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	systems, which would immediately cause significant harm for its members.	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	162 CompTIA submits that, in so far as it requires Microsoft to supply its intellectual property to any	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	undertaking present on the servers market, the remedy provided for in Article 5 of the Decision will	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	reduce the level of protection for the entire information technology and communications industry, give	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	rise to legal uncertainty and have the immediate effect of reducing investment in the technology sector	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	and therefore the general level of economic activity.	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	163 CompTIA further contends that the serious and irreparable damage which that remedy will cause to the	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	entire sector, and also to the members of CompTIA, exceeds any possible adverse effect which the lack	Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz	of immediate disclosure could have on the public interest or the in	Dec 22 18:22
_doug	http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/10...	Dec 22 18:23
schestowitz	"336 CompTIA and Exor support Microsoft’s position as regards a prima facie case. They contend that Microsoft has demonstrated that Articles 4 and 6(a) of the Decision are prima facie unlawful."	Dec 22 18:24
schestowitz	pp 47: "Furthermore, Microsoft, supported more broadly on that point by CompTIA, ACT.."	Dec 22 18:25
_doug	http://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/...	Dec 22 18:25
_doug	a balanced playing field where the ref plays for the red team ..	Dec 22 18:26
_doug	http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving...	Dec 22 18:27
schestowitz	"Microsoft and Abramoff vs. Novell Inc." < http://www.enterinside.com/b... >	Dec 22 18:28
schestowitz	What's here? -> http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/...	Dec 22 18:28
schestowitz	Oh, I see..	Dec 22 18:29
schestowitz	Wow. This happened less than a week ago	Dec 22 18:29
_doug	http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/client...	Dec 22 18:29
schestowitz	Microsoft and Abramoff vs. Novell Inc. "This page has been deleted. The deletion log for the page is provided below for reference." < http://www.enterinside.com/bro... >	Dec 22 18:31
schestowitz	Maybe they should lobby for Lobby Visas... you know, to hire 'more qualified' lobbyists from other countries... it's cheaper	Dec 22 18:33
_doug	we must have more H1-B1 lobbiest visas	Dec 22 18:35
schestowitz	H1-B1>>	Dec 22 18:36
schestowitz	I came across the same BS: "This is perhaps the most annoying thing about Open Office.org. Why do I need Java Runtime for OpenOffice to export a document into HTML format. Duh!" < http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-... >	Dec 22 18:41
_doug	Free sued over open source software	Dec 22 18:43
_doug	http://www.telecompaper.com/news/article....	Dec 22 18:43
schestowitz	We got some traffic from this page today (like 1%): http://www.cio.com/article/print/472116	Dec 22 18:46
schestowitz	_doug: needs subs. Should it say "cisco"?	Dec 22 18:47
_doug	?	Dec 22 18:47
schestowitz	Actually, that's not possible given the date. What's this article about?	Dec 22 18:47
schestowitz	Business collapsed and folding so soon? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/... (Sky 'withdraws' from Tiscali buyout talks)	Dec 22 18:48
_doug	subscription only, why not contact them and ask ..	Dec 22 18:48
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_doug	"French ISP Free has been sued in a Paris court by open software developers Harald Welte, Rob Landley and Erik Andersen for failing to respect the general .."	Dec 22 18:50
schestowitz	Freedom Squad :-p	Dec 22 18:51
schestowitz	Suing for Freedom(R)	Dec 22 18:52
trmanco	Trolls gone mad !	Dec 22 18:52
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trmanco	this would make a nice movie title	Dec 22 18:53
schestowitz	Did you see the new GL post? SCO acquires PJ from IBM. ;-)	Dec 22 18:53
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_doug	On, it turned out that PJ was a time traveling space alien android from the future, with amnesia ..	Dec 22 18:54
schestowitz	This could take a while... :-) ->> http://www.pcworld.com/article/155872/undersea_ro...	Dec 22 18:54
_doug	That French ISP, story isn't verified on their blogs ..	Dec 22 18:55
schestowitz	It's from Novermber.	Dec 22 18:55
_doug	how about burying them ..	Dec 22 18:55
schestowitz	I didn't see it anywhere but this subs-only thing.	Dec 22 18:55
schestowitz	Burying who?	Dec 22 18:55
_doug	and not using drag nets ...	Dec 22 18:55
schestowitz	The haatchets?	Dec 22 18:55
_doug	burying the cables under the seabed ..	Dec 22 18:56
schestowitz	The cable..	Dec 22 18:56
schestowitz	I see... I don't know why. There must be reasons.	Dec 22 18:56
schestowitz	In times of war these can be cut	Dec 22 18:56
schestowitz	But there has been no major war since modern telecom (bar telegraph and all)	Dec 22 18:56
schestowitz	Another thing that will be used immediately is an army of crackers that DDOS DNS and any machine at service. China is well prepared for it; the US... not so much, but they have lots of back doors in China.	Dec 22 18:57
_doug	it's cheaper to just lay them on the surface ..	Dec 22 18:58
_doug	http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/log...	Dec 22 18:58
schestowitz	nations are being very stupid. It's like China leases all its telephone lines to the NSA/CIA/FBI/whatever.	Dec 22 18:58
_doug	well, it's only fair when both sides read each others mail :]	Dec 22 18:59
schestowitz	"Cable burial by plowing, using large sled-type cable plows towed by large powerful cable ships is the standard and most widely used commercial method of protecting submarine telephone cables from fishing activity, large ship anchors and other ocean hazards. "	Dec 22 18:59
schestowitz	Would they keep routes of the cable secret? Like the "Enigma"? ;-)	Dec 22 19:00
_doug	must cost a lot, especially to repair ..	Dec 22 19:00
schestowitz	Or will Turning scuba-dive with a pair of scissors?	Dec 22 19:00
schestowitz	*Turing	Dec 22 19:00
_doug	can't keep them a secret ..	Dec 22 19:00
_doug	What would be usefull is a large wheeled sub, that dug the trench and laid the cable at the same time ..	Dec 22 19:01
_doug	electronic couch potato patented ..	Dec 22 19:02
_doug	http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsglobe...	Dec 22 19:02
schestowitz	Winning bid: http://coppola.rsmart.com/files...	Dec 22 19:04
_doug	Patent and open source software are fundamentally incompatible ..	Dec 22 19:05
_doug	http://www.iusmentis.com/computerprogr...	Dec 22 19:05
schestowitz	Patents are hence anti-FOSS law/mechanism (swpats)	Dec 22 19:06
_doug	Open source isn't free software ..	Dec 22 19:07
schestowitz	Can JackA legalise them in the EU when he's out of jail?	Dec 22 19:07
_doug	http://www.cio.com.au/article/27...	Dec 22 19:07
_doug	Bill Hilf: Door open to open-source pacts ..	Dec 22 19:08
_doug	http://www.cio.com.au/inde...	Dec 22 19:08
_doug	2006 .. sorry ...	Dec 22 19:08
schestowitz	This is funny	Dec 22 19:08
schestowitz	IDG/Google had a hiccup, so it burped out a story from 2007.	Dec 22 19:09
schestowitz	Nick Farrell thought it was new and wrote about this old news as though it is news: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...	Dec 22 19:09
_doug	http://www.contractoruk.com/news/004117.html	Dec 22 19:10
schestowitz	Bill Hilf quite his role... probably drinking the shame and guilt away... it's not easy being a thug.	Dec 22 19:10
_doug	is 'KAren' for real ,, why not contact the school and get a confirmation ...	Dec 22 19:10
schestowitz	Probably.	Dec 22 19:10
schestowitz	'	Dec 22 19:11
schestowitz	Whatever it was Karen smoked in college, it seems to have given her a rose-tinted view of the world of commercial software, writing: “I am sure if you contacted Microsoft, they would be more than happy to supply you with copies of an older verison[sic] of Windows and that way, your computers would actually be of service to those receiving them."'	Dec 22 19:11
schestowitz	"...smoked in college.. rose-tinted" Nice people.	Dec 22 19:12
schestowitz	M-m-m-m-m-m-merry Xmas... clear your desk by the end of the day. WD lops off 2,500 jobs and one fab < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/101/... > WHY do they wait until now?	Dec 22 19:13
schestowitz	Next month they say will be a bloodbath (deferred announcements)... Microsoft too likely to announce some 'cost-cutting'......	Dec 22 19:13
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_doug	MS fast false-facts article ..	Dec 22 19:16
_doug	"With the Linux-based platform we would have a system crash at least once a week. Migrating to a Microsoft-based system has virtually eliminated server crashes and we have vendor support."	Dec 22 19:16
_doug	- Ed Castillo, Information Technology Team Lead, Capital Engineering	Dec 22 19:16
_doug	http://www.microsoft.com/canada/get...	Dec 22 19:17
_doug	I don't know what Ed makes, but I do know I don't want any .. :]	Dec 22 19:17
schestowitz	Maybe he used corssover before. :-)	Dec 22 19:18
schestowitz	"With the Linux-based platform we would have a system crash at least once a week" use the keyboard, not the sledgehammer, Ed.	Dec 22 19:18
_doug	yea, like our friend trying to run AD under wine .. :)	Dec 22 19:18
schestowitz	Which 'friend'?	Dec 22 19:19
schestowitz	Wheres me start thinigi?	Dec 22 19:19
_doug	couldn't get Actocad to run on Linux ?	Dec 22 19:20
_doug	http://www.capitaleng.ca/	Dec 22 19:20
_doug	"Performance Grade Asphalt Tank Storage Facility"	Dec 22 19:20
_doug	:]	Dec 22 19:20
_doug	"Nonfemet ZPL Zinc Smelter"	Dec 22 19:21
_doug	Autocad ..	Dec 22 19:21
schestowitz	Pola-bye: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new...	Dec 22 19:21
_doug	http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?s...	Dec 22 19:22
trmanco	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... -> good to know from who I get my Wine from	Dec 22 19:22
schestowitz	Wine-cracking.	Dec 22 19:23
_doug	"running qualified Linux operating systems"	Dec 22 19:24
_doug	http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?...	Dec 22 19:24
_doug	Qualified Linux guests: RedHat, SuSE ...	Dec 22 19:25
_doug	Competitive Selling: Win vs. Linux	Dec 22 19:26
_doug	https://partner.microsoft.com/40029171	Dec 22 19:26
trmanco	MS addons for Linux	Dec 22 19:26
trmanco	give me a break :\|	Dec 22 19:26
schestowitz	sudo apt-get install breal	Dec 22 19:27
trmanco	sudo apt-get install beer beer-lib cup	Dec 22 19:28
schestowitz	chown trmanco break beer beer-lib cup; sleep(0);	Dec 22 19:28
trmanco	lol	Dec 22 19:29
trmanco	man chown	Dec 22 19:29
_doug	Neuros ships $300.00 set-top box ..	Dec 22 19:30
_doug	http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS828...	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	"AMD SHAREHOLDERS learned late Friday that Lehman Brothers' September bankruptcy has forced the chipmaker to abandon a complicated long-term stock value protection deal." < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n...	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	man that is quite funny	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	No manual entry for that	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	No manual entry for is	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	No manual entry for quite	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	No manual entry for funny	Dec 22 19:30
trmanco	:o	Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz	_doug: it does YouTube too! :-D	Dec 22 19:30
trmanco	No manual entry for woman	Dec 22 19:31
schestowitz	\0/buh-bye, ol' media	Dec 22 19:31
trmanco	oops	Dec 22 19:31
schestowitz	So....... who do you reckon will be defrauded next?	Dec 22 19:32
schestowitz	Ponzi down, Abramoff down, Madoff............. Gates??	Dec 22 19:32
schestowitz	Carlos Slim?	Dec 22 19:32
schestowitz	MSFT at $18:xx today.	Dec 22 19:38
schestowitz	Novell below $3.4	Dec 22 19:38
schestowitz	Almost...	Dec 22 19:38
trmanco	3.4 :O	Dec 22 19:45
*trmanco checks microsoft's shares		Dec 22 19:45
trmanco	$19	Dec 22 19:45
trmanco	:O	Dec 22 19:46
trmanco	boycottnovell in on google finance	Dec 22 19:46
trmanco	when you choose MSFT	Dec 22 19:46
trmanco	ahead of all the win blogs :-P	Dec 22 19:47
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schestowitz	There's usually something about Novell too... scroll down to bottom: http://www.google.com/search?num=50...	Dec 22 19:51
trmanco	yeah	Dec 22 19:54
trmanco	http://www.xitimonitor.com/en-us/brows...	Dec 22 19:59
schestowitz	http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/12/tax...	Dec 22 20:01
schestowitz	So he stole from the poor and gave to the rich? I'm not sure..	Dec 22 20:01
schestowitz	trmanco: it's better for Chrome to be ignored until it's /really/ FOSS.	Dec 22 20:02
trmanco	ok, then we better sit and wait	Dec 22 20:02
trmanco	Search Biz: MSFT Layoff Rumors, Google Chrome Complicates Mozilla Relationship & More: http://searchengineland.com/s...	Dec 22 20:03
schestowitz	Hmmmmmmm... http://searchengineland.com/searc...	Dec 22 20:14
schestowitz	Firrefox handles it OK and Thunderbird suddenly hates it, saying it's not a valid feed.... Oh, never mind.	Dec 22 20:15
trmanco	:\|	Dec 22 20:15
schestowitz	Sometimes it takes time to realise some feed moves or broke	Dec 22 20:15
trmanco	http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/...	Dec 22 20:16
trmanco	that is a funny image	Dec 22 20:16
schestowitz	http://techdirt.com/articles/20081218... "The various banks on Wall Street have a bunch of problems that they're dealing with right now, including getting rid of toxic assets on their balance sheet, properly compensating staff who are expecting big bonuses even in such a down year and figuring out ways to motivate staff to invest in good assets, even in such tough times."	Dec 22 20:32
trmanco	the Mono team has some more work to do -> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Prolong-the-Life-of-...	Dec 22 20:38
schestowitz	They can apply for a job at Microsoft.	Dec 22 20:38
schestowitz	http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/rumor...	Dec 22 20:44
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trmanco	Nix fixes dependency hell on all Linux distributions: http://www.linux.com/feature/155922	Dec 22 20:48
trmanco	on my 3 years of Linux I have never encountered a dependency hell	Dec 22 20:49
schestowitz	I had that happen in SUSE 8.1	Dec 22 20:51
trmanco	how old is that?	Dec 22 20:51
trmanco	oops http://tuxvermelho.blogspot.com/2008/1...	Dec 22 20:53
schestowitz	Like 5 years or more	Dec 22 20:53
schestowitz	late 2003, I thinl.	Dec 22 20:53
trmanco	long time	Dec 22 20:55
schestowitz	2 drivers next to it? http://tuxvermelho.blogspot.com/2008/12...	Dec 22 20:58
schestowitz	In DistroWtach, over the past 7 days, Mint Linux got more pageviews than Ubuntu.	Dec 22 21:00
trmanco	:O	Dec 22 21:01
trmanco	Mint is good	Dec 22 21:02
trmanco	its Ubuntu + a bunch of tweaks e less bloat, maybe	Dec 22 21:02
trmanco	:o Microsoft Corp.'s developers missed a critical bug in Internet Explorer because they weren't properly trained and didn't have the right testing tools, a noted proponent of the company's secure code development process acknowledged last week.	Dec 22 21:06
trmanco	http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?...	Dec 22 21:06
trmanco	they weren't trained c'mon	Dec 22 21:07
schestowitz	Might be true.	Dec 22 21:08
schestowitz	They lost their best hackers.	Dec 22 21:08
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/200...	Dec 22 21:08
schestowitz	Second REF worth attention... "“With Alchin retiring, MarkL and MarkZ, two of the most talented architects in MS already having left, the picture gets really ugly for the Windows division,” my friend claimed, and the BV’s core team members, Ian McDonald, Jack Mayo, Todd Wanke, Clyde Rodriguez and others are starting to connect the dots."	Dec 22 21:09
schestowitz	"Despite Microsoft's claims that Vista has sold well, consumers have reacted badly to its release." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology...	Dec 22 21:10
trmanco	I missed that bbc article somehow	Dec 22 21:15
trmanco	better be more careful next time a read my feeds	Dec 22 21:15
schestowitz	http://uk.reuters.com/article/governmentFili... "Deployments of server computers are expected to slow, UBS said, with spending on Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O) Windows servers expected to grow 2 percent in 2009 after 3 percent in 2008, and open-source Linux server growth is set to be flat at 1 percent."	Dec 22 21:16
schestowitz	Since when does USB track server revenue?	Dec 22 21:16
schestowitz	Also, revenue != share.	Dec 22 21:16
trmanco	USB? LOL	Dec 22 21:16
schestowitz	UBS	Dec 22 21:16
schestowitz	Common typo for me... habits.	Dec 22 21:16
trmanco	you got me there for a minute	Dec 22 21:16
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schestowitz	wb, seller_liar	Dec 22 21:27
seller_liar	schestowitz: hello roy	Dec 22 21:29
schestowitz	Any news from the south?	Dec 22 21:29
seller_liar	yes , one , wait a moment	Dec 22 21:29
seller_liar	http://br-linux.org/2008/empresa-de-...	Dec 22 21:30
seller_liar	m$ and affiliates uses piracy to attack companies	Dec 22 21:30
schestowitz	As usual.	Dec 22 21:30
schestowitz	They need money now, so they bully.	Dec 22 21:31
seller_liar	But ,I have not find a english version	Dec 22 21:31
schestowitz	http://searchengineland.com/searc... http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/rumors...	Dec 22 21:31
schestowitz	http://pooteeweet.org/blog/0/1388#m1388 (My advice to the database division at Sun)	Dec 22 21:33
seller_liar	Now , we have another proof against m$ , abramoff	Dec 22 21:33
seller_liar	Now ,trolls does not to argument anymore	Dec 22 21:34
schestowitz	Glad you found it useful.	Dec 22 21:34
schestowitz	"It’s not appropriate for information such as sales records and other data that either fits well in a table or needs to be accessible for a long period of time. And it only works in Java." http://gigaom.com/2008/12/18/terracotta-doesnt-w...	Dec 22 21:34
schestowitz	Either way, it makes it hard for the hecklers to say with a straight face that Microsoft can and should be trusted.	Dec 22 21:34
seller_liar	A final solution for mono problem is create a java implementation of .net	Dec 22 21:39
seller_liar	licensed in lgplv3	Dec 22 21:39
schestowitz	How would that be a solution?	Dec 22 21:40
seller_liar	this give more power to java platform and do not steals java developers	Dec 22 21:41
seller_liar	lgplv3 provides more protection	Dec 22 21:41
seller_liar	java can use .net libraries	Dec 22 21:41
seller_liar	this is very important because some devs is changing from java to .net	Dec 22 21:43
schestowitz	Java still dominates	Dec 22 21:44
MinceR	an independent implementation could help too, couldn't it?	Dec 22 21:44
MinceR	(dotgnu)	Dec 22 21:44
schestowitz	The issue is Novell helping Microsoft against Sun	Dec 22 21:44
seller_liar	no	Dec 22 21:44
MinceR	i don't think java is such a sacred platform anyway :>	Dec 22 21:44
seller_liar	because dotgnu does not permit to java use .net libraries	Dec 22 21:44
MinceR	at least until they fix memory management in the jvm	Dec 22 21:44
seller_liar	a java implementation of .net (like jython) can helps a lot	Dec 22 21:45
seller_liar	for example , jython can mix python and java	Dec 22 21:45
schestowitz	Sob stories from the Vole: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft...	Dec 22 21:45
seller_liar	I like to see m$ ruining , but I don t like to see google to grow	Dec 22 21:48
MinceR	same here	Dec 22 21:50
seller_liar	The big problem in all companies is try to turn the "unique" company of universe	Dec 22 21:51
seller_liar	Like intel, coca-cola and some Banks	Dec 22 21:51
seller_liar	This is anti-capitalism	Dec 22 21:52
seller_liar	A good number of companies provides harmony and good heterogene business	Dec 22 21:53
schestowitz	But you have no regulation	Dec 22 21:55
schestowitz	If you permit companies to set the rules, then soon they open the door to predatory capitalism that ends up a set of monopolies of shared monopolies (price fixing also)	Dec 22 21:56
seller_liar	But companies should not to set the rules,	Dec 22 21:57
schestowitz	Well, they do	Dec 22 21:57
seller_liar	What I say is , is very important to have a heterogenous number of companies	Dec 22 21:57
seller_liar	Monopolies is very destructive	Dec 22 21:57
seller_liar	Oligopolies too	Dec 22 21:58
seller_liar	We need variety , and choice	Dec 22 21:58
seller_liar	But the real solution is very complex	Dec 22 21:59
schestowitz	Against human nature?	Dec 22 21:59
seller_liar	Yes	Dec 22 22:00
seller_liar	People like to be "unique" and powerful	Dec 22 22:00
schestowitz	Woohoo! http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&a...	Dec 22 22:00
seller_liar	Like a leader in a tribal community	Dec 22 22:00
schestowitz	http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTe... (Red Hat profit tops Street forecast)	Dec 22 22:01
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schestowitz	seller_liar: yes, tribe culture.	Dec 22 22:15
schestowitz	It's 'in the blood' so to speak. It would be nice to have another better creature -- like Aliens ;-) -- 'manage' us before we totally screw out the planet due to animal instincts that involve expansion and pissing on territories. The Amazon deforestation is a good example.	Dec 22 22:16
schestowitz	OStatic is promoting former Microsoft employees+Mono: http://ostatic.com/blog/upgrade-mindtouc...	Dec 22 22:19
*seller_liar has quit ("seller_liar has no reason")		Dec 22 22:24
schestowitz	Mozilla CEO: Ties with Google 'complicated' since Chrome < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?co... >	Dec 22 22:54
schestowitz	http://aronzak.wordpress.com/2008/1...	Dec 22 23:20
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trmanco	OpenSUSE 11.1: Evolution dependent on Mono: http://www.itwire.com/content/v...	Dec 22 23:32
trmanco	and the [censored] begins	Dec 22 23:35
schestowitz	Excellent. Now they owe me an apology (the Mono fans)	Dec 22 23:35
trmanco	throw this into there faces	Dec 22 23:36
trmanco	and see how they react	Dec 22 23:36
trmanco	GNOME should be cute based :-P	Dec 22 23:37
trmanco	http://digg.com/linux_unix/OpenSUSE_11...	Dec 22 23:39
schestowitz	Qt?	Dec 22 23:40
MinceR	i prefer KMail anyway :>	Dec 22 23:40
schestowitz	Mark S thought about itr.	Dec 22 23:40
trmanco	yeah cute	Dec 22 23:40
MinceR	http://www.myextralife.com/?p=10551	Dec 22 23:41
schestowitz	They'll spin it I bet... saying that OpenSUSE made some mistake. We shall see..	Dec 22 23:42
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trmanco	For Windows, 2008 Was a Roller Coaster: http://www.pcworld.com/article/155925/...	Dec 22 23:45
trmanco	weeeee	Dec 22 23:45
schestowitz	ndows	Dec 22 23:47

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 22nd, 2008

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