Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 13th, 2009 - Part 2

GNOME Gedit



Enter the IRC channel now







*kentma1 has quit ("Leaving.")Jan 13 18:09
*seller_liar (i=c92ad68a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d333d028ac81f518) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 18:22
*seller_liar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Jan 13 18:29
twitterGlyn Moody, reports and stirs the fake flame war.Jan 13 18:43
twitter FOSDEM, "We determine our budget based on what we need, not on who we want to take money from."  I suppose they "need" Novell then, paying or not.Jan 13 18:44
schestowitzI'm writing about it nowJan 13 18:44
schestowitzProofread for me plsJan 13 18:45
schestowitzI' posting it now.Jan 13 18:45
twitterOKJan 13 18:45
twitterit should be interestingJan 13 18:45
schestowitz5 secs ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/13/f...Jan 13 18:45
twitterthanks for writing it.Jan 13 18:45
schestowitzSome other people might get involvedJan 13 18:45
schestowitzRMSJan 13 18:45
twitter" Novell is almost a proponent of software patents" -> " Novell is a proponent and vendor of software patents"Jan 13 18:47
schestowitzYes, better.Jan 13 18:47
benJImanWill you be demonstrating at the event?Jan 13 18:49
schestowitzMe?Jan 13 18:49
benJImanYes.Jan 13 18:49
schestowitzI won't be there.Jan 13 18:49
schestowitzI was invited though. Several times..Jan 13 18:49
twitterThat sounds like a good protest.Jan 13 18:49
twitterI don't see any obvious typos.  :)Jan 13 18:50
schestowitzIt's better to reform Novell thoughJan 13 18:50
schestowitzNot to spoil FOSDEM.Jan 13 18:50
schestowitzNovell got worse when it publicly used swpatents to market itselfJan 13 18:50
schestowitzAnd in /Europe/Jan 13 18:50
schestowitzActually, it did this in Germany too... in 2006Jan 13 18:51
schestowitzSomeone reported that they advertised it... that was said in GroklawJan 13 18:51
schestowitzMessman tooJan 13 18:51
schestowitzLet me find something.Jan 13 18:51
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/01/jack...Jan 13 18:51
twitterThe best way to reform Novell is to expose and protest what they are doing.Jan 13 18:53
schestowitzYes, but not FOSDEMJan 13 18:53
twitter?Jan 13 18:53
twitternot protest FODEM?Jan 13 18:54
schestowitzLikewise, projects to criticise are those who choose to promote Microsoft, not those endorsing them 'transitively'Jan 13 18:54
schestowitzNoJan 13 18:54
twitteror not protest Novell at FOSDEM?Jan 13 18:54
schestowitzFOSDEM is more than NovellJan 13 18:54
twitterI would hope so.Jan 13 18:54
schestowitzBut Novell@FOSDEM is the issueJan 13 18:54
schestowitzThey'll have lots of lizards all over the rooms... like last yearJan 13 18:54
schestowitzProbably some counters and booths with SUSE CDs, posters and promotion of Go-OOXMLJan 13 18:54
twitterYes, none of that is very free software friendly.Jan 13 18:55
schestowitzNoJan 13 18:55
schestowitzBut it's 'protected;Jan 13 18:55
schestowitz"Peace of Mind" @ both 12Jan 13 18:55
schestowitz*boothJan 13 18:55
schestowitzDidn't make it in on time: SCO Files for Reorganization Again, Puts Assets Up for Sale < http://ostatic.com/blog/sco-files-for-reo... >Jan 13 18:56
schestowitzSCO officially becomes a legal firm (well, soon anyway).Jan 13 18:56
schestowitzSanta Cruz Operations, where "Operations" means "Litigations"Jan 13 18:57
MinceRit started being a legal firm when mcbride took overJan 13 18:58
schestowitzHe used to work at Novell.Jan 13 19:00
twitterThat's not for real is it?  -> "Peace of Mind" @ both 12Jan 13 19:01
schestowitzNovell is now run partly by IBMers (former)... int-monopolies and all...Jan 13 19:01
twitterIt's funny how the hecklers accuse BN of being "childish"Jan 13 19:03
schestowitzGlyn found: "Our goal is to build a community of academic computing departments, IT corporations, and local and global humanitarian and community organizations dedicated to building and using Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) to benefit humanity." http://hfoss.org/Jan 13 19:04
twitterM$ and Novell are a real threat to software freedom.  The childish reaction to their threats is to take their money, and praise them for their mediocre technical achievements and pretty graphics.Jan 13 19:05
twitterThings won't turn out the way you want when you ignore the problem.Jan 13 19:05
schestowitzNope.Jan 13 19:06
*[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jan 13 19:06
schestowitzI wonder if Michael returns all that gear he's getting for review: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...Jan 13 19:07
tessier_http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news...Jan 13 19:07
tessier_Neato. A camera that runs Linux.Jan 13 19:07
schestowitzLast year he told me that he has lots left around his house. it's like bribes...Jan 13 19:07
schestowitztessier: thanks, I saw this article this morning.Jan 13 19:07
PetoKrausi wouldnae touch datJan 13 19:07
PetoKrausi mean, 1525Jan 13 19:07
schestowitzit's not exactly news, but the GPL does not force you to put a "GNU inside" sticker on all those gadgetsJan 13 19:08
MinceRstrange, i've never seen IBM act as nasty as novell does nowadaysJan 13 19:08
PetoKrausit's the most crappy product dell madeJan 13 19:08
PetoKrausif you hold 1525 by the edge/corner, it feels like it's gonna break on the other oneJan 13 19:09
tessier_They even link to the source code for the kernel and busybox. Nice.Jan 13 19:09
schestowitzCan the camera's code be loaded on?Jan 13 19:09
schestowitzFor modification purposes? I mean, it's not as though they give you a premium service on top -- one that justifies tivoizationJan 13 19:10
MinceRwhoa, ALP is aliveJan 13 19:11
schestowitz"sharonpr "...  Is the LF using PR accounts for Linux sites now?? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/33628Jan 13 19:12
schestowitzMinceR: It's ALIPE! Any URL?Jan 13 19:12
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@91.85.191.216) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 19:13
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerJan 13 19:13
MinceRtessier_'s link mentioned a mobile phone running itJan 13 19:13
MinceRhttp://www.edelweiss-mobile.com/Jan 13 19:13
MinceRthe site uses flash and is in russian :/Jan 13 19:13
PetoKrausedelweissJan 13 19:14
MinceRand it's rather nontechnicalJan 13 19:14
PetoKrausfor foggyness sakeJan 13 19:14
MinceRhm, it's apparently a sharp productJan 13 19:15
schestowitzWhen Susan mentions BetaVista7, then pageviews rise, but it's a LINUX site...... http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/33630Jan 13 19:16
*[H]omer_ (n=[H]omer@amsterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 19:19
*[H]omer has quit (Nick collision from services.)Jan 13 19:19
*[H]omer_ is now known as [H]omerJan 13 19:19
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerJan 13 19:20
schestowitz"OLPC tapped into the rich, now poor by Wall street ponzi fraud ?" http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/33643Jan 13 19:21
schestowitz Jason Brooks is among those who Microsoft 'took to the back' for a laptop from Sinofsky... now he plays the Windows open source cars: http://blogs.eweek.com/brooks/content/open_s...Jan 13 19:22
schestowitzDoes anyone here use Kate?Jan 13 19:26
MinceROne Laptop Per Investor? :>Jan 13 19:27
schestowitzCompanies put money in the hat for PR purposes, among other things.Jan 13 19:28
schestowitzCompanies are inherently against giving to charity, unless the cameras are on, so to speak. Capitalism 01...Jan 13 19:28
schestowitz*101Jan 13 19:28
schestowitzhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=... "While our notebook arrived with Windows Vista..."Jan 13 19:31
schestowitzEnglish press uses Che guavara to characterise Linux.. http://www.whatpc.co.uk/personal-computer-...Jan 13 19:33
PetoKrausEnglish...Jan 13 19:33
PetoKrauswe had a very good lecture on english press today and yesterdayJan 13 19:33
schestowitzEnglish/British http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_guavara "Over forty years after his execution, Che's life and legacy still remain a contentious and polarizing issue."Jan 13 19:34
schestowitzLinux= polarizing?Jan 13 19:34
schestowitzDoesn't Microsoft break the law by bullying, bribing, attacking people, etc.Jan 13 19:34
PetoKrausyou are polarising!Jan 13 19:34
PetoKrausit's also awesome operating system1Jan 13 19:34
MinceRit does, but that's all right because 1) they're a Business! and 2) they pay enough to silence dissentJan 13 19:34
PetoKraus~1Jan 13 19:34
schestowitzERR 99?Jan 13 19:36
schestowitzMandriva E-Training http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/vie...Jan 13 19:37
schestowitzMandriva has been quiet since AdamW finished his jobJan 13 19:37
schestowitzWeird.. http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/MSN-c... "404 - File not found"Jan 13 19:38
schestowitzThis URL worked before... did they yank the article?Jan 13 19:38
schestowitzReview of Palm''s way forward:  http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/... (It's interesting that Palm shunned Windows Mobile)Jan 13 19:43
schestowitzbblJan 13 19:46
MinceRthey did?Jan 13 19:51
MinceRit doesn't seem so at all to meJan 13 19:51
MinceRthey've had some wm-based treo modelsJan 13 19:51
tessier_But they didn't use Windows Mobile as the base for their new PalmOSJan 13 20:16
tessier_They used LinuxJan 13 20:16
MinceRi expected them to, i just didn't see why they waited so longJan 13 20:18
MinceR(though i expected ALP, not webOS)Jan 13 20:18
PetoKrausschestowitz: could you relink the pdf letter for virgin you published yesterday to http://pk.gjhak.sk/?uid=140Jan 13 20:59
PetoKrauscheersJan 13 20:59
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 13 21:40
*trmanco (n=trmanco@online.na.tuxSP.pt) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 21:40
twitterBlocking software modification is futile.Jan 13 21:46
twitterI've seen where people have figured out how to mod their Cannon cameras, and those did not come with free software in the first place.  Aside from getting around lame product differentiating limitations and restrictions, people added their own functions.Jan 13 21:46
twitterI've used Kate.Jan 13 21:48
twitterwhat do you want to know about kate?Jan 13 21:49
twitterLOL.  Windows Vista 7 Beta eats MP3s and has a DoS SMB bug that they will fix when you buy it.  http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do...Jan 13 22:01
neighborleetwitter, I dont have to worry much about it since I dont ( nor have I ever ) have any mp3's ;)Jan 13 22:09
neighborleehadJan 13 22:09
twitterI have a few of them but I'll never subject them to a M$ OS.Jan 13 22:11
PetoKrausneighborlee: what do you use?Jan 13 22:11
twitterogg, flacJan 13 22:11
PetoKrausummJan 13 22:11
twitterI only go for mp3 when a site like archive.org does not have ogg vorbisJan 13 22:12
PetoKrausi wish i could use flac, but not enough diskspaceJan 13 22:12
PetoKrausand ogg, seriously, i can't listen to it, i don't like the soundJan 13 22:12
twitter?  bump up your quality factorJan 13 22:12
PetoKrausi had it at max... i didn't like how it soundedJan 13 22:13
PetoKraustoo much treblesJan 13 22:13
twitterbut mp3 works?Jan 13 22:13
PetoKrausyes...Jan 13 22:13
neighborleePetoKraus, oggJan 13 22:13
twitterI'm glad I don't have your ears.Jan 13 22:13
twitterKDE's default ogg rip has always worked well for me.Jan 13 22:14
neighborleekewlJan 13 22:14
twitterI love the comments I got here, http://slashdot.org/firehose.p...Jan 13 22:16
PetoKrausthe question isJan 13 22:17
PetoKrausARE YOU REALLY A CUNT?!?Jan 13 22:17
twitterlet me checkJan 13 22:17
twitterwhat color is a cunt?Jan 13 22:17
PetoKrausi dunno. our ac-cunt-s manager has been fired from workJan 13 22:17
PetoKrausthe funny part is, she's wife of the store managerJan 13 22:18
PetoKraus:D:DJan 13 22:18
twitterpink slip?  check.Jan 13 22:18
PetoKraus*freudianJan 13 22:18
PetoKraus:PJan 13 22:18
twitterwhat other essential characteristics of a cunt can I check?Jan 13 22:20
twittertemperature?  check.Jan 13 22:20
twitterhumidity?  I'm in Louisiana, check.Jan 13 22:20
twitterOh well, it's a mystery.  I'm sure the AC has never seen such a thing in real life.Jan 13 22:21
twitterI noticed the remarks when I was updating the Windows 7 failure log, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957Jan 13 22:21
twitterPeople hardly ever comment on journals and submissions these days.  I was flattered by the extra attention.Jan 13 22:22
twitterforecasting an 8% drop in spam. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/13/news/co...Jan 13 22:24
twitter"Pfizer to ax up to 8% of R&D staff"Jan 13 22:24
twitterIt's been a while since I've gotten penis spam.Jan 13 22:24
schestowitzMinceR: Palm have spoken about moving to Linux since March 2005, IIRCJan 13 22:24
schestowitzPetoKraus: how to relink? Was it broken at the time?Jan 13 22:25
PetoKrausno, it just points directly to the pdf... i told you i'd like it to point to the article (when done) ;)Jan 13 22:25
schestowitztwitter: How's Kate as an HTML editor and what would be better?Jan 13 22:25
PetoKrausand wbJan 13 22:26
twitterKate is OK.  Bluefish is nice.Jan 13 22:26
schestowitzOh look! twitter has fans... http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=...Jan 13 22:29
schestowitzAnd fannies it seems...Jan 13 22:29
schestowitzThey try to 'expel' him.Jan 13 22:29
MinceRschestowitz: and they've been doing wm while speaking about it :>Jan 13 22:30
MinceReven when ALP was already out and was called the successor to Palm OSJan 13 22:30
schestowitzMinceR: aye, losersJan 13 22:30
schestowitzLet me find some postsJan 13 22:30
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/arch...Jan 13 22:31
schestowitzLots more here: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archi...Jan 13 22:31
schestowitzI used to blog a lot about PalmJan 13 22:32
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 13 22:36
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/article...Jan 13 22:39
schestowitz"Indeed, Microsoft says its research shows that most of the people who buy Linux netbooks actually install Windows on them, mainly illegal copies at that." --> "Indeed" and _Microsoft says its research_... I'm gonna show some internal memos about these liesJan 13 22:40
schestowitzhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/can...Jan 13 22:40
*trmanco (n=trmanco@online.na.tuxSP.pt) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 22:40
schestowitzSCO vs. Linux: "Unix" goes under the hammer < http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/SCO-vs-Lin... >Jan 13 22:41
*DarkUranium (n=DarkUran@cpe-92-37-93-249.dynamic.amis.net) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 22:50
NeonF|ossyoJan 13 22:53
*NeonF|oss is now known as NeonFlossJan 13 22:53
NeonFlosssome time ago you pointed me in the direction of the indian poeple who convinced the schoolboard to switch to foss ?Jan 13 22:54
*cj (n=cjac@66.152.65.2) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 22:54
cjhaha: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmod...Jan 13 22:54
cjhttp://i.gizmodo.com/5130531/56-situa...Jan 13 22:54
cjthat made me think of you, schestowitz :)Jan 13 22:54
NeonFlossdo any of you knkow  how I could contact them?Jan 13 22:54
cjNeonFloss: contact whom?Jan 13 22:54
schestowitzHeyJan 13 22:54
schestowitzJust got back..Jan 13 22:54
NeonFlossthe people from indiana who got thier schoolboard to use fossJan 13 22:55
cjfacebook usually works for that type of thingJan 13 22:56
NeonFlosslolJan 13 22:58
schestowitzNeonFloss: the ones ousted?Jan 13 22:59
schestowitzOh, Indiana...Jan 13 22:59
schestowitzI thought of India for second...Jan 13 22:59
NeonFlosshehJan 13 22:59
twitterWhat a paytard, "People want Windows, not Linux," said Gilbert Fiorentino, chief executive of the technology products group at Systemax, parent company of CompUSA and TigerDirect. "They are used to it. It is more compatible and you can run other applications on it."Jan 13 23:00
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/157006/u... (UK Broadband Growth Takes a Hit)Jan 13 23:01
twitterI wonder if Saul Hansell is already on my Poison Pen list.Jan 13 23:02
schestowitzWhat's known about this chap? http://www.pcworld.com/article/156990/... (Obama Names FCC Chair)Jan 13 23:03
schestowitzI think that in BN+Coral we did over a million hits today.Jan 13 23:04
cjooh... FCC...Jan 13 23:04
schestowitzI disengaged from Coral at 10am todayJan 13 23:04
schestowitzFCC=F* corruption CorruptionJan 13 23:05
cjyay for net neutrality.Jan 13 23:05
cjschestowitz: well, maybe it will get better with a new chair...Jan 13 23:05
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/14...Jan 13 23:05
cjspeaking of which, I need to sign up for the ham license exam...Jan 13 23:05
schestowitzGood luck with that.Jan 13 23:05
twitterCongrats.  RMS is down on Obama's choices.  I don't know about the FCC dude.  The article uses all the right words.Jan 13 23:06
schestowitzTeliaSonera Lays off 1,200 as Part of Restructuring Plan < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156988/teliasonera... >Jan 13 23:06
schestowitzI think we get more traffic than Groklaw, but logging is disabled over thereJan 13 23:06
schestowitz.Jan 13 23:06
cjIf Genachowski does end up at the FCC he will bring a vastly different outlook than Kevin Martin, the current FCC chief. Under the Bush Administration, the Martin-led FCC pushed to relax media ownership rules. That plan would have made it easier for media conglomerates to control broadcasting and print media in the same market--something that critics say favors media consolidation, not diversity. Congress later reversed the FCC's policy.Jan 13 23:07
cjwhy would anyone disable logging!?Jan 13 23:07
schestowitzPerformanceJan 13 23:07
cjanonymity, I guess...Jan 13 23:07
schestowitzMathfox did thatJan 13 23:07
schestowitzAnonymity=side effectJan 13 23:07
cjoh, right.  hard to figure out what's causing performance problems when you don't have logs, though...Jan 13 23:07
schestowitzCan be enabled temporarily..Jan 13 23:08
cjschestowitz: did you get a chance to listen to the frontalot song?Jan 13 23:08
cjnot for the start of the problem, though...Jan 13 23:08
schestowitzfrontalot??Jan 13 23:08
cjhe released it while I was working on amazon's blogging infrastructure:Jan 13 23:09
cjhttp://frontalot.com/media.php/331/MC_Fron...Jan 13 23:09
cjwhat?  teaser!?Jan 13 23:09
cjhere, let me publish it on my site for a momentJan 13 23:09
schestowitzIt's OK, never mind.Jan 13 23:11
cj:)Jan 13 23:12
cjthe part that reminded me of folks like jo was this:Jan 13 23:14
cjhttp://rafb.net/p/WxgYXQ76.htmlJan 13 23:14
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/377... "ALTHOUGH CURRENTLY holding the performance crown in GPU performance, Nvidia is revising its forecasted Q4 revenue expectations, down down and down."Jan 13 23:14
schestowitzJo disagreed with usJan 13 23:14
schestowitzYou guys are friends/collagues, I imagineJan 13 23:14
twitterHmm, that Saul dude did notice something at CES that's worth sharing.  M$ has missed the boat for embedded devices, even Inel is using GNU/Linux for their TVs.Jan 13 23:15
cjI use Ubuntu, so I guess so.  I like the guy, even if he is a bit rough around the edges :)Jan 13 23:15
schestowitzIntel does not like MS at engineers levelJan 13 23:15
schestowitzThey use VS only for s/w programmingJan 13 23:15
cjtwitter: note that they terminated support for the only OS that was reasonable with <4M of memory not long aginJan 13 23:15
cjs/agin/ago/Jan 13 23:15
schestowitzThe managers talk in $$, so Ballmer and chums are all right for them.Jan 13 23:16
schestowitzWin CE is worth abandoning.Jan 13 23:16
schestowitzI don't think it generates much/any profitJan 13 23:16
schestowitzWM too..Jan 13 23:16
cjI was talking about windows 'snowball' (3.11)Jan 13 23:16
schestowitzLoses money like a motor unless things changed..Jan 13 23:16
schestowitzSmart companies turn to MontaVista et al for helpJan 13 23:18
twitterYeah, but M$ can't abandon the mobile market.  People are using their iPhone instead of a laptop already.  The monopoly can't stand commercial avoidance without collapsing.Jan 13 23:18
cjtwitter: how long did it take them to embrace the internet? :)Jan 13 23:18
schestowitzWM is not in danger yetJan 13 23:18
schestowitzBut long term, it ain't viableJan 13 23:18
schestowitzToo much work to be done by ONE companyJan 13 23:18
cjhear hearJan 13 23:19
schestowitzLinux keeps growing so fast and you don't need to rely on one companyJan 13 23:19
twitterM$ is increasingly looking at a world where phones, TVs, game systems and phones all have enough computing power to do most tasks.Jan 13 23:19
schestowitzEven Symbian was a (failed) case of pooling resourcesJan 13 23:19
cjI'm glad Allison has been pestering them to co-operate more with the F/OSS community, and I'm glad they've been moving that direction.Jan 13 23:19
schestowitzThen Nokia bought it and it seems to lack a futureJan 13 23:19
schestowitzSony  and others turn to other plattoforms, I thinkJan 13 23:19
cjschestowitz: if you're looking for a story, look into Allison Randal and the OSDLJan 13 23:20
twitterM$ has tried to embrace the embedded market, in a strangulation mode, for a decade - killing off palm and other competitors.Jan 13 23:20
schestowitzEven NOKIA keeps saying more and more that it will adopt Linux for PHONESJan 13 23:20
schestowitzI don't like Radal so muchJan 13 23:20
*cj needs a CDMA platform for his linux phone...Jan 13 23:20
schestowitzShe's just arguing with me at times.Jan 13 23:20
*cj <3 AllisonJan 13 23:20
schestowitz*RandalJan 13 23:21
schestowitzPJ gets along with herJan 13 23:21
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-71-188-245-175.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 23:21
cj'cuz she's awesome :)Jan 13 23:21
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to sell Windows and MOOXJan 13 23:21
twitterWhen all of these devices do voice conferencing, email, news, weather, internet, games etc, who's going to need a PC or M$?Jan 13 23:21
schestowitzThe OSS game is self gain, postuuring.Jan 13 23:21
schestowitzLike a kid who says he lives building sand castles, then come over (closer) to step on it.Jan 13 23:21
cjschestowitz: that's a very general claim you're making there :)Jan 13 23:21
schestowitz*likesJan 13 23:22
yuhongAnti-trust law is fundemetally flawed.Jan 13 23:22
yuhonghttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13578...Jan 13 23:22
yuhong"The underlying problem is that antitrust law is so malleable that it can be bent into virtually any shape that its practitioners desire. Given nearly any set of hard-nose business practices, some economist can be hired to claim that "predatory" prices are illegally low (hurting competitors) or illegally high (hurting consumers). No wonder Lester Thurow, the former dean of MIT's business...Jan 13 23:22
yuhong...school, concluded that "the time has come to recognize that the antitrust approach has been a failure. The costs it imposes far exceed any benefits it brings." "Jan 13 23:22
schestowitzSpinners aboundJan 13 23:22
cjschestowitz: perhaps this is true with some folks, but the ones I know in the OSDL org are really real.  Lots of GNU/Linux experience there, emphasis on the GNU/.Jan 13 23:23
schestowitzOSDL is no moreJan 13 23:23
schestowitzCohen is a IBM/Novell-like mind..Jan 13 23:23
yuhongReferring to the MS/Google/Yahoo mess.Jan 13 23:24
yuhong"Jan 13 23:25
yuhong"But it tends to be cheaper and less risky to lobby government officials to spend tax dollars suing your competitor rather than doing it yourself. Another bonus is you gain the imprimatur of a government suit that supposedly protects the public interest."Jan 13 23:25
schestowitzThe Microsoft corruption amidst politics.Jan 13 23:25
schestowitzProving the company is a Political movement, as some people tell me.Jan 13 23:25
yuhongYep, MS and Google were playing a game where both calls each other evil.Jan 13 23:26
yuhongTurned out that anti-trust law is fundamentally flawed.Jan 13 23:29
schestowitzHypocrisyJan 13 23:29
schestowitzNo.Jan 13 23:29
yuhong"The underlying problem is that antitrust law is so malleable that it can be bent into virtually any shape that its practitioners desire. Given nearly any set of hard-nose business practices, some economist can be hired to claim that "predatory" prices are illegally low (hurting competitors) or illegally high (hurting consumers). No wonder Lester Thurow, the former dean of MIT's business...Jan 13 23:29
yuhong...school, concluded that "the time has come to recognize that the antitrust approach has been a failure. The costs it imposes far exceed any benefits it brings." "Jan 13 23:29
schestowitzAntitrust is a regularisation term for a broken systemJan 13 23:29
yuhongYep.Jan 13 23:30
schestowitzhad the system been inherently robust to corruption and not favouring monopoliation, it would not be neededJan 13 23:30
schestowitzThe assumptions about competitions can't be faciliatets when companies run the governmentJan 13 23:30
schestowitzIt needs to be reversedJan 13 23:30
yuhongI will say it againJan 13 23:30
yuhong"the time has come to recognize that the antitrust approach has been a failure. The costs it imposes far exceed any benefits it brings."Jan 13 23:31
schestowitzOh no!Jan 13 23:31
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/20...Jan 13 23:31
schestowitzNo SueJan 13 23:31
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 13 23:31
schestowitzThe other woman took it... Autodesk.. bad people, pro-lockin and sw patentsJan 13 23:31
yuhongI don't know much about Autodesk, but I never heard that it is as evil as MS.Jan 13 23:32
schestowitzIt's notJan 13 23:32
schestowitzMS is not evilJan 13 23:32
schestowitzit's corruptJan 13 23:32
schestowitzWhich makes it evil tooJan 13 23:32
schestowitzIndian police raid PWC in Satyam probe < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/01... >Jan 13 23:32
schestowitzHad laws applied in a reciprocal, non-discriminatory fashion, almost every US president from the past 50 years would stand trial for illegal actsJan 13 23:33
schestowitzThis is a conventional thought, a consensus to someJan 13 23:33
schestowitzLikewise...Jan 13 23:33
yuhongOf course, most laws are not reciprocal.Jan 13 23:34
schestowitzHad there been incentive and enforcement to stick to laws, many Microsoft executives would be in prison right now.Jan 13 23:34
yuhongOr at least be fined.Jan 13 23:34
schestowitzNot quiteJan 13 23:35
schestowitzFines are the bail they payJan 13 23:35
yuhongWhich laws are you referring to.Jan 13 23:35
schestowitzOr settlementsJan 13 23:35
schestowitzThe society we live in suffers the most from Big CriminalsJan 13 23:35
schestowitzThe small ones are those who shoplift or do drugsJan 13 23:35
yuhongWhich laws did MS execs break?Jan 13 23:36
schestowitzThe ones who kill hundreds of thousands of innocent kids for oil are an example of Big CriminalsJan 13 23:36
yuhongI know.Jan 13 23:36
schestowitzThe ones that bribe to colonialise are big criminals too.Jan 13 23:36
yuhongBut which laws did MS execs break?Jan 13 23:36
schestowitzyuhong: manyJan 13 23:36
schestowitzLong listJan 13 23:36
yuhongWhat is the name of the most serious.Jan 13 23:36
yuhongone.Jan 13 23:36
schestowitzFinancial fraud is oneJan 13 23:36
yuhongAnd Intel execs too.Jan 13 23:36
schestowitzThey settled with the SEC and paid their way out of itJan 13 23:37
schestowitzA lot of large companiesJan 13 23:37
schestowitzBut I am more familiar with tech companies, so many of us aren't competent enough to find evidence for other sectorsJan 13 23:37
yuhongWhat is the name of the most serious violation that MS and Intel execs broke.Jan 13 23:37
schestowitzPharmas cause many deaths, not save livesJan 13 23:37
yuhongI know.Jan 13 23:38
schestowitzArtificial scarcity vs abundance for humanityJan 13 23:38
yuhongBut I am asking this.Jan 13 23:38
yuhongWhat is the name of the most serious law that MS and Intel execs broke.Jan 13 23:38
schestowitzWhat do you mean by "most serious"?Jan 13 23:38
schestowitzIs there a ladder of severity?Jan 13 23:38
yuhongMost severe.Jan 13 23:38
schestowitzDefine.Jan 13 23:38
schestowitzBribing of charities for example is a serious abuseJan 13 23:39
*trmanco (i=trmanco@online.na.tuxSP.pt) has joined #boycottnovellJan 13 23:39
yuhongBecause maybe the execs do need to go to jail, but only if it is severe.Jan 13 23:39
schestowitzDefine severeJan 13 23:40
schestowitzSomeone stole my lunch box and I think it's severe :-)Jan 13 23:40
yuhongsevere enough that they need to go to jail.Jan 13 23:40
schestowitzIn the US of A, Big Criminals are rich, so they rarely go to jail.Jan 13 23:40
schestowitzMadoffocker is one exampleJan 13 23:41
schestowitzThe Madoffocker stole $50,000,000,000 from people all over the world and he's not in jailJan 13 23:41
yuhongYea, but do they need to? That is what I am asking for more detail.Jan 13 23:41
yuhongThat is why I am asking for more detail.Jan 13 23:41
schestowitzIf white-collar crime is tolerated, then it's endorsedJan 13 23:41
schestowitzShould we also endorse Unabomber?Jan 13 23:42
schestowitz*bomberJan 13 23:42
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/200... "According to The Wall Street Journal, Bartz has accepted the company's offer to replace Jerry Yang, the man who rejected a $47.5bn takeover bid from Steve Ballmer and Microsoft."Jan 13 23:43
schestowitzShe could sell out... what do she care..?Jan 13 23:43
schestowitzSue Decker fought against iotJan 13 23:43
yuhongIn this case, the Madoffocker should pay it all back or go to jail.Jan 13 23:43
yuhongBut is what MS and Intel execs did really that bad?Jan 13 23:43
schestowitzOR?Jan 13 23:44
schestowitzNoJan 13 23:44
schestowitzHe committed fraudJan 13 23:44
schestowitzThat's like saying if you stole money, then it's OK if you work and pay it backJan 13 23:44
schestowitzAnd he CAN'T pay it backJan 13 23:44
schestowitzIt's a pyramid schemeJan 13 23:44
yuhongAnd thus should go to jail.Jan 13 23:44
schestowitzChairJan 13 23:45
yuhongBut is what MS and Intel execs did really that bad?Jan 13 23:45
schestowitzLike this guy: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Indus...Jan 13 23:45
schestowitzThat's a separate case, re: Intel, MS. Scare crow..Jan 13 23:45
yuhongBecause yes maybe Intel/MS execs' crimes was really bad enough that they should go to jail, but I need more details to confirm this.Jan 13 23:46
tessier_Jail? Hell, give 'em the chair!Jan 13 23:47
tessier_Federal 'pound Ballmer in the ass' Prison followed by the chair. I bet Sweaty would conduct electricity quite well.Jan 13 23:47
yuhongtessier_: Again, is the crime really that bad?Jan 13 23:49
MinceRit's worseJan 13 23:49
MinceRbut we are mercifulJan 13 23:50
yuhongIn other words, what specific crime did  Intel/MS execs commit that is bad enough to suggest going to jail for?Jan 13 23:50
MinceRit's more like a long series of severe crimes, at least in the case of m$Jan 13 23:50
twitterfruad, theft, destruction of competitors, retardation of the entire world's tech.  It has literally killed people.Jan 13 23:51
schestowitzHe put a straw man for you./Jan 13 23:51
schestowitzSeattle spinner yuhong Jan 13 23:52
yuhongShoreline spinnerJan 13 23:52
twitterthese crimes have been well documented.Jan 13 23:52
yuhongOf course, not all spinners work for companies that spin, but some do.Jan 13 23:53
yuhongAre all these crimes crimes according to the law?Jan 13 23:53
twitteryesJan 13 23:53
twitterthe company and it's executives are convicted felons thanks to the anti-trust trial.Jan 13 23:54
yuhong"retardation of the entire world's tech"Jan 13 23:54
yuhongI know.Jan 13 23:54
yuhong"retardation of the entire world's tech"Jan 13 23:54
yuhongDo the law say this is a crime.Jan 13 23:54
schestowitzCareful... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/...Jan 13 23:54
twitteryes, they violated trust laws to do it.  It is direct result, an aggravating circumstance and malice that should be considered when punishing the guilty.Jan 13 23:56
twitterLaws, often do follow morals.Jan 13 23:56
schestowitzHe tries to inciae, I suspectJan 13 23:56
schestowitz*inciteJan 13 23:56
twitterhe's pretty damp.Jan 13 23:56
schestowitzMining quotes or setting up trap to scoop quoteJan 13 23:57
schestowitzcj played a similar gameJan 13 23:57
twittermost of them are.Jan 13 23:57
schestowitzThey try to do this to some professors too.Jan 13 23:57
schestowitzFor example, questions like "so should Bush be executed?"Jan 13 23:57
twitterOh sure, classic trolls.Jan 13 23:58
schestowitzSo be carefulJan 13 23:58
cjhmm?  I did what?Jan 13 23:58
schestowitzThey paste stuff from IRC laterJan 13 23:58
schestowitzSomeone said we should shut down IRC because of it.Jan 13 23:58
twitterI'm usually careful about what I say.  Here too.  They don't get much out of me.Jan 13 23:58
schestowitzMinceR expressed some strong opinionsJan 13 23:59
*DarkUranium has quit ("Leaving")Jan 13 23:59
schestowitz(for example)Jan 13 23:59
cjschestowitz: but... you've got logs yourself... how was my pasting irc logs any sort of problem?Jan 13 23:59
schestowitzLayoffs loom for Malaysian electronics sector < http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9... >Jan 13 23:59
MinceRi have little patience for evil of ballmer's level.Jan 13 23:59
schestowitzcj: yes, regardless.Jan 13 23:59
schestowitzOr JobsJan 13 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

Attacks on the EPC: Reality and Fiction
EPO leaks
 
When the Cancer 'Metastasises'
We had a red flag
March in Techrights (EPO Litigation and More)
One theme we'll explore a lot when it comes to GNU/Linux is the extent to which communities truly serve communities
Don't Forget to Also Follow Tux Machines
We've split the material
Yandex Usage Has Surged Since the Invasion of Ukraine, Microsoft Fell to 0.7% (It Was 1.7% Before the 'Bing Chat' Hype Campaign)
In Soviet Russia, Bing searches user
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, March 01, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, March 01, 2024
Sellout Completed: Linux Foundation Converging With the Gates Foundation
not a joke
Hitler Rants Parodies on Steve Ballmer
Parody created using clips from Downfall (Der Untergang)
With Windows This Low (27% of the "OS" Market), Steve Ballmer Would Have Thrown Another Chair
The media produced many puff pieces about Nadella at 10 (as CEO), but what has he done for Windows? Nothing.
[Meme] The Naked President
EPO Suffers From Shrinkage
Understanding Cardinal George Pell prosecution, Institutional abuse & Debian cybertorture
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 01/03/2024: Many More Layoffs, "Funerals" for Software Patents in the US
Links for the day
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: OFFLFIRSOCH 2024 and Dark Streets Tech Demo
Links for the day
Links 01/03/2024: Navalny Funeral and Media Under Attack
Links for the day
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: Making Art and the Concept of Work Management
Links for the day
Schriftleitergesetz: Hiding the Holocaust with censorship
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
[Meme] His Lips Moved
Here is your national "news" for today
statCounter: GNU/Linux Exceeded 6% in Asia Last Month (Compared to 4% Just 12 Months Earlier)
numbers may be biased
What the End of Journalism Looks Like
All on the same day
Links 01/03/2024: Microsoft 'Retiring' More Services and Raspberry Pi Celebrates 3rd Birthday (Launched on February 29th, 2012)
Links for the day
Women's Empowerment
Sponsored by Bill Gates
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: Speed Bumps and Analog Stuff
Links for the day
[Meme] Those Greedy EPO Examiners
Says the litigation industry, charging 300 euros an hour per attorney
EPO Discriminates Against Families of Its Own Workers, the Union Explains Legal Basis Upon Which It's Likely Illegal and Must be Challenged
To the Council, the EPO boasts about its wealth (seeking to impress by how much breaking the law "pays off")
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, February 29, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, February 29, 2024
Links 01/03/2024: Misuse of Surveillance Against UK-Based Journalism, EPO Conflict Now in the Media
Links for the day
Taking a Break From Paid Promotion of the Illegal, Unconstitutional Kangaroo Court for Patents (UPC)
JUVE returns to its 'roots'?
FSFE admits losing funds from bequest by insulting and ignoring Fellowship representative
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Raspberry Pi Incus Cluster and Aya 0.5.0 Coming Soon
Links for the day
Links 29/02/2024: Layoffs at Apple, Expedia, and Electronic Arts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Web Enshittification and Firefox user-agents
Links for the day
Spiked Piece/Censoreed Piece: 'Microsoft Copilot is a gimmick', says top CIO
Issues relate to connectivity and cost
Enrico Zini, Mattia Rizzolo, Plagiarism & Debian
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
[Meme] Clergy of GNU/Linux (Corporations Like IBM)
Volunteers as powerless "followers" of companies that "harvest" their labour
There Will Be Lots More Apple Layoffs (Already Years in the Making)
The corporate media still tries to shape the narrative to prevent panic or delay market hysteria
Latest SUEPO (Staff Union of EPO) Report For The Hague Reveals EPO Does Not Obey Court Orders, Refuses to Allow Workers to Freely Talk to One Another
working in a place where communication itself is restricted
[Meme] The Oppression Will Continue Until EPO 'Quality' Improves
wonder why EPO morale is so low?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, February 28, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, February 28, 2024
Outreachy, GSoC-mentors & Debian-Private may soon become public records in federal court
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock