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| hicham_ | how much do they get from Microsoft? | Mar 03 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | That's how Microsoft is fighting. The TomTom suit confirms that they attack now... defeat is near. | Mar 03 00:00 |
| schestowitz | They tried using SCO with the copyerights case | Mar 03 00:00 |
| hicham_ | novell should be banned from linux | Mar 03 00:00 |
| Balrog | TomTom should not back down. Those patents are so laughable | Mar 03 00:00 |
| *MrMid (i=5acc236d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c9b4e29cc4a05034) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 00:00 | |
| Balrog | do any of you know of an alternative to this? | Mar 03 00:01 |
| Balrog | http://www.faronics.com/html/de... | Mar 03 00:01 |
| hicham_ | we should ask Linus to ban Novell | Mar 03 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Now they go softer... to patents.... beyond that they are over.. unless they make up new laws and corrupt/bamboozle politicians to accept them | Mar 03 00:01 |
| Balrog | someone I know requires such software and it's only for SUSE :( | Mar 03 00:01 |
| schestowitz | hicham_: he's careful | Mar 03 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Linus' statement is something I've watched for over 2 years | Mar 03 00:01 |
| hicham_ | schestowitz : and what did he say? | Mar 03 00:02 |
| schestowitz | He does reply to my mails but he's no fan of isolating Novell | Mar 03 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Also, he works with people like Greg K-H, whose job is at risk now | Mar 03 00:02 |
| Balrog | well Novell is playing by the rules (GPL-2) so far, right? | Mar 03 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Novell is firing SUSE devs en masse and Greg is working on drivers for everyone, not just Novell... so he's 'luxury' to them. | Mar 03 00:02 |
| schestowitz | hicham_: I need to find an interview | Mar 03 00:03 |
| Balrog | these layoffs are very bad...devs are the last people that should be laid off | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | He said something about "irrational hatred" | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | I don't hare Novell | Mar 03 00:03 |
| MrMid | Couple of links to keep track on prices tomorrow http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fd... | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | He just doesn't understand how much of a risk they are | Mar 03 00:03 |
| hicham_ | it is not hatred | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | He does understand that sw patents are a huge issue | Mar 03 00:03 |
| hicham_ | as you said, it is risk | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | he told ZDNet in a LinxuWorld/AU interview last year | Mar 03 00:03 |
| schestowitz | I have the video | Mar 03 00:03 |
| *MrMid has quit (Client Quit) | Mar 03 00:04 | |
| hicham_ | Novell is just opening Linux gates to Microsoft | Mar 03 00:04 |
| hicham_ | Linux doesn't need any Microsoft infected software | Mar 03 00:04 |
| schestowitz | BTW, MrMid is a friend from 'Real Life'. He too understands what was happening and doesn't buy this whole "stimulus" BS and "it'll be better soon" | Mar 03 00:04 |
| schestowitz | hicham_: Novell needs the money | Mar 03 00:05 |
| schestowitz | I think it almost went bankrupt in 2006 | Mar 03 00:05 |
| schestowitz | It was close to being delisted. | Mar 03 00:05 |
| Balrog | Why did Novell buy SUSE anyway? | Mar 03 00:05 |
| schestowitz | IBM | Mar 03 00:06 |
| schestowitz | And lack of direction | Mar 03 00:06 |
| schestowitz | They still buy companies without real purpose | Mar 03 00:06 |
| schestowitz | I've covered all those aqcuisitions in BN over the years | Mar 03 00:06 |
| schestowitz | They make little sense. It's like a drowning man clinging onto 5 y-o kids | Mar 03 00:07 |
| Balrog | new groklaw story, about SCO | Mar 03 00:07 |
| Balrog | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s... | Mar 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | "Save me.. save me... look, investors, I made moves" | Mar 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Messman got sacked or pressured out for being too statis | Mar 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | *static | Mar 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | After he bought SuSE he couldn't do much | Mar 03 00:07 |
| Balrog | read it | Mar 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Then came IBM's Hovsepian's (was COO beforehand) and worked out change... talked to Microsoft | Mar 03 00:08 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Novell came TO Microsoft | Mar 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | They made quite a deal | Mar 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft pays ~$300m (lifeline),plus another $100m later | Mar 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | But not anymore | Mar 03 00:08 |
| Balrog | ms was paying novell? for what? | Mar 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | To ruin Linux | Mar 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | OK, I joke here | Mar 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | They paid Novell to promote OOXMl | Mar 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | To sign a patent deal.. | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | To ruin Red Hat (they failed at that...) | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | And so on. | Mar 03 00:10 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 03 00:10 |
| Balrog | red hat is going strong | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | It seems so | Mar 03 00:10 |
| Balrog | ooxml is a mess | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | For archival, yes. | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is aggressive about speading it | Mar 03 00:11 |
| schestowitz | And harming ODF... bastardising it | Mar 03 00:11 |
| schestowitz | MS-ODF vs ODF | Mar 03 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: "MS-ODF is much better... more features" | Mar 03 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Novell: "use Go-OO, not OpenOffice.org" | Mar 03 00:11 |
| Balrog | seems like Nintendo's engineering isn't great either: http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-wi... | Mar 03 00:11 |
| Balrog | though that's OT | Mar 03 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: "use .NET" | Mar 03 00:12 |
| Balrog | OOo3 is great | Mar 03 00:12 |
| schestowitz | SUSE: "Mono.NET... sehr gute!" | Mar 03 00:12 |
| schestowitz | SUSE was a European project | Mar 03 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Now run by Mono slackers. | Mar 03 00:12 |
| Balrog | yeah. :( | Mar 03 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Miguel de Icaza: 'We had some painful experiences with C and C++, and when Microsoft came out with .NET, we said, "Yes! That is what we want."' | Mar 03 00:13 |
| Balrog | heh. what about Qt .... but that only recently became LGPL | Mar 03 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but he said it a long time ago | Mar 03 00:16 |
| schestowitz | That freedom/openness API/tollkit debate is a dead horse. not worth kicking. | Mar 03 00:16 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 03 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Too many platforms, not enough writers: http://weblog.infoworld.com/editor/arch... | Mar 03 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Now supporting a company that attacks its competitors using intellectual monopolies on FAT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29462888/ Did Infobright get a visit from the lackeys of Microsoft like Walli? | Mar 03 00:21 |
| hicham_ | the .Net is just a J2EE stealth | Mar 03 00:23 |
| hicham_ | Microsoft was fearing that its developer will go to J2EE | Mar 03 00:23 |
| hicham_ | that is why they developed .Net during three years | Mar 03 00:24 |
| hicham_ | I think from 1999 to 2002 | Mar 03 00:24 |
| Balrog | Developers are still going to Java | Mar 03 00:24 |
| Balrog | Java is much more widespread than .NET | Mar 03 00:24 |
| hicham_ | and spend on it about $3m | Mar 03 00:24 |
| hicham_ | I know that | Mar 03 00:24 |
| hicham_ | but Microsoft want to invade the web | Mar 03 00:25 |
| hicham_ | because that it the future | Mar 03 00:25 |
| hicham_ | since its big failure with windows Vista | Mar 03 00:25 |
| hicham_ | Microsoft is trying to invade other markets | Mar 03 00:26 |
| Balrog | well Silverlight isn't accepted too well | Mar 03 00:26 |
| hicham_ | silverlight isnt accepted at all | Mar 03 00:26 |
| Balrog | and as closed as the iphone may be, its lack of plugins helps (discourage silverlight use) | Mar 03 00:26 |
| Balrog | it's probably too slow to run silverlight anyway | Mar 03 00:26 |
| hicham_ | first reason is : devs are used to action script | Mar 03 00:27 |
| Balrog | which the iphone and similar devices don't support either. | Mar 03 00:27 |
| hicham_ | flash in anywhere | Mar 03 00:27 |
| hicham_ | it is not a big problem for adobe | Mar 03 00:27 |
| hicham_ | they can do that | Mar 03 00:27 |
| hicham_ | the swf format is very popular | Mar 03 00:28 |
| hicham_ | there is even an open source implementation for it : gnash | Mar 03 00:28 |
| Balrog | it sure is. but it's not lasting forever | Mar 03 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Mothers Against Drunk Driving Picks Orange Leap for Optimizing Constituent Management, Marketing and Fundraising < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/... >. | Mar 03 00:28 |
| Balrog | it takes lots of processing power and ram | Mar 03 00:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bermanexposed.org/ "Richard Berman has been a regular front man for business and industry in campaigns against consumer safety and environmental groups. Through his public affairs firm, Berman and Company, Berman has fought unions, Mothers Against Drunk Driving" | Mar 03 00:28 |
| schestowitz | hicham_: true. Microsoft admits Silver Lie is failing | Mar 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Poor penetration, | Mar 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | And they also bribe (incentivise) companies to adopt it | Mar 03 00:30 |
| schestowitz | I.e. they lose money from having it 'adopted' | Mar 03 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Novell helps MS though | Mar 03 00:30 |
| schestowitz | it promotes Silver Lie. | Mar 03 00:30 |
| Balrog | All the lecture video-capture 'solutions' I've seen use it. D: | Mar 03 00:31 |
| hicham_ | good news : Dailymotion uses the ogg format in its olpc section | Mar 03 00:31 |
| hicham_ | seems very promising | Mar 03 00:31 |
| hicham_ | what do u think of that? | Mar 03 00:31 |
| Balrog | good, but browser support isn't where it should be | Mar 03 00:33 |
| hicham_ | did u test it? | Mar 03 00:33 |
| Balrog | not theirs, but some other ogg | Mar 03 00:33 |
| Balrog | with the XiphQT plugins | Mar 03 00:33 |
| hicham_ | firefox 3.1 has built-in support for ogg | Mar 03 00:34 |
| hicham_ | did u test it? | Mar 03 00:34 |
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| Balrog | seems to work | Mar 03 00:44 |
| hicham_ | u just tested it now? | Mar 03 00:44 |
| Balrog | yeah ... in firefox | Mar 03 00:44 |
| Balrog | I used it before but not with firefox | Mar 03 00:45 |
| tessier_ | http://blogs.computerworld.com/... | Mar 03 00:49 |
| tessier_ | Nice | Mar 03 00:49 |
| Balrog | so do any of you know of an alternative to this product? | Mar 03 00:49 |
| Balrog | http://www.faronics.com/html/DF... | Mar 03 00:49 |
| Balrog | it reverts changes to the hard disk after reboot | Mar 03 00:50 |
| Balrog | Someone I know wants to use it and it only works with SUSE | Mar 03 00:50 |
| Balrog | (and an outdated version of suse) | Mar 03 00:50 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Microsoft must reduce prices | Mar 03 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Now they have a new jokes about some 'cheaper' server to "compete with Linux". So they want to sell a crippled Widnows Server to compete with something that\s better than Windows Server | Mar 03 00:51 |
| schestowitz | On sub-notebooks they impose a 3-processes limit and think it can compete? | Mar 03 00:51 |
| Balrog | there's no way people will work with such a limit | Mar 03 00:52 |
| Balrog | people will *hate it* | Mar 03 00:52 |
| schestowitz | They've lost the ability to attract developers in an age of limited budgets, thus you have people flocking to Linux skills and employers seeking them | Mar 03 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, Microsoft hopes they'll upgrade to premium Windows | Mar 03 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Heck, they'll just upgrade to Linux, which is cheaper | Mar 03 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's business decisions are a lost cause now | Mar 03 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Thus they sue TomTom, trying miserably to increase the cost of Linux | Mar 03 00:53 |
| schestowitz | My cousin just put up this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch... | Mar 03 00:56 |
| schestowitz | It's strange how quickly they grow. | Mar 03 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Google is 73% the worth of Microsoft now? Wow. | Mar 03 01:16 |
| hicham_ | Google is good with Open Source | Mar 03 01:23 |
| hicham_ | but its browser isnt open source | Mar 03 01:23 |
| schestowitz | AGPL? | Mar 03 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Neither is android | Mar 03 01:23 |
| hicham_ | it is based on Chromium | Mar 03 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Better something than nothing | Mar 03 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Google hardly /attcks/ freedom,unlike Microsoft | Mar 03 01:24 |
| hicham_ | yes | Mar 03 01:24 |
| schestowitz | It plays safe, a little bit like IBM | Mar 03 01:24 |
| hicham_ | i do agree on that | Mar 03 01:24 |
| hicham_ | but the private data that they collect? | Mar 03 01:24 |
| hicham_ | and the suspicious EULA with Chrome? | Mar 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Privacy and freedom I don't consider to be the same thing | Mar 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | If they leak your data out, that becomes an issue | Mar 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | But you don't /have/ to use their s/w... unless peers send you a Google Docs URL or something. | Mar 03 01:26 |
| hicham_ | the google offline apps will be supported by firefox | Mar 03 01:26 |
| hicham_ | i think in 3.2 | Mar 03 01:27 |
| schestowitz | If there comes a time when people use Google not because it's very good but because they must (lock-in of some sorts), then it become insidious. Being a monopoly does not necessarily mean being a monopolist (or monopoly abuser). See Cisco.. | Mar 03 01:27 |
| hicham_ | by the way, which OS do u use | Mar 03 01:27 |
| hicham_ | ? | Mar 03 01:27 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computeruser.com/articles/1... | Mar 03 01:27 |
| schestowitz | I use Mandriva 2008.1 on my main machine. It's fantastic. | Mar 03 01:28 |
| hicham_ | monopoly is always a problem | Mar 03 01:28 |
| hicham_ | I haven't had a successful experience with it | Mar 03 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Incompatible h/w? | Mar 03 01:28 |
| hicham_ | though Mandrake used to be good for me for some time | Mar 03 01:28 |
| hicham_ | yes | Mar 03 01:28 |
| schestowitz | I got a machine that took everything I threw at it without a hitch | Mar 03 01:29 |
| hicham_ | the main reason is my connection$ | Mar 03 01:29 |
| schestowitz | I never really had any h/w issues with Linux. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Some people do... I never wrestled with Wi-Fi though... I also think it may be cancerous, but that's another topci | Mar 03 01:29 |
| hicham_ | WiFi is almosted resolved with ndiswrapper | Mar 03 01:29 |
| hicham_ | i have an adsl usb connection | Mar 03 01:30 |
| hicham_ | i struggled to get it working on linux for six months | Mar 03 01:30 |
| hicham_ | i went from mandake | Mar 03 01:30 |
| hicham_ | to fedora | Mar 03 01:30 |
| hicham_ | to mandriva | Mar 03 01:30 |
| hicham_ | and finally i landed on ubuntu | Mar 03 01:30 |
| schestowitz | I want more answers about radiation issues one day. Don't believe what they tell you. I've seen enough lies ("WMOD in Iraq", "I didn't have sex with that woman", etc.). There's a good talk from LEssig about it | Mar 03 01:31 |
| hicham_ | in which i made it work on a month | Mar 03 01:31 |
| hicham_ | radiations exists in iraq | Mar 03 01:31 |
| schestowitz | http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro... | Mar 03 01:31 |
| hicham_ | i recently seen a video about a strange sickness that strikes young people | Mar 03 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Worth a watch... very engaging. | Mar 03 01:31 |
| schestowitz | I use Ubuntu on 3 machines of mine | Mar 03 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Also on my second partition of my main PC. | Mar 03 01:32 |
| Balrog | hicham_: the only issues I had were (a) trying to use legacy nvidia blobs on a current kernel and (b) helping that person with SUSE (his hardware was too new for the kernel) | Mar 03 01:32 |
| hicham_ | I dont think that there is a problem with Nvidia chipset | Mar 03 01:32 |
| hicham_ | it is very well supported | Mar 03 01:32 |
| Balrog | no, it's more of nvidia being slow to update the legacy driver | Mar 03 01:33 |
| Balrog | even so, it's still a blob | Mar 03 01:33 |
| hicham_ | what about the open source one? | Mar 03 01:33 |
| Balrog | (the open-source nv driver sucks badly and is obfuscated) | Mar 03 01:33 |
| hicham_ | ok | Mar 03 01:33 |
| Balrog | stuff doesn't render right, and everything is slow | Mar 03 01:33 |
| hicham_ | right now i use the open source radeon one | Mar 03 01:34 |
| Balrog | a core2quad system feels like a 400MHz system loaded down | Mar 03 01:34 |
| hicham_ | so i dont know about nvidia | Mar 03 01:34 |
| hicham_ | i just hear that it offer better for linux than ati | Mar 03 01:34 |
| Balrog | the blob is very good (performance-wise) | Mar 03 01:34 |
| Balrog | though I hear they re-implement half of xorg | Mar 03 01:34 |
| Balrog | but yes, it's colsed | Mar 03 01:36 |
| Balrog | closed | Mar 03 01:36 |
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| hicham1 | as i said the adsl usb modem was badly supported | Mar 03 01:38 |
| hicham1 | now things changed | Mar 03 01:38 |
| Balrog | why use usb for adsl anyway? | Mar 03 01:39 |
| Balrog | ethernet is so much easier to support | Mar 03 01:39 |
| hicham1 | yes i know | Mar 03 01:39 |
| hicham1 | but it is the cheapest | Mar 03 01:39 |
| Balrog | :( | Mar 03 01:39 |
| hicham1 | yes | Mar 03 01:39 |
| hicham1 | and YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT when you subscribe with our ISP | Mar 03 01:40 |
| Balrog | you can't buy a different one?? | Mar 03 01:40 |
| Balrog | what ISP is this? | Mar 03 01:40 |
| hicham1 | Maroc Telecom | Mar 03 01:40 |
| Balrog | (see, I want something I can hook up to a router) | Mar 03 01:40 |
| hicham1 | in Morocco | Mar 03 01:40 |
| Balrog | ack. | Mar 03 01:41 |
| Balrog | sucks | Mar 03 01:41 |
| hicham1 | you have to sell the modem | Mar 03 01:41 |
| hicham1 | and then buy a new router | Mar 03 01:41 |
| hicham1 | the router is better anyway | Mar 03 01:41 |
| hicham1 | but they dont offer it | Mar 03 01:41 |
| Balrog | heh obviously | Mar 03 01:41 |
| hicham1 | i dont know either why they still force people to take the usb modem | Mar 03 01:42 |
| hicham1 | i prefer ethernet too | Mar 03 01:42 |
| Balrog | do they charge for it? | Mar 03 01:42 |
| hicham1 | yes | Mar 03 01:42 |
| hicham1 | of course | Mar 03 01:42 |
| Balrog | D: | Mar 03 01:42 |
| hicham1 | it is more than a router's price | Mar 03 01:42 |
| Balrog | here they throw in a ethernet/usb modem in the 25 USD 'setup fee' | Mar 03 01:42 |
| Balrog | which is waived in many instances | Mar 03 01:43 |
| *schestowitz uses nvidia binary blobs (included in Mandriva with automatic updates). very pleased with it, except it's binary-only | Mar 03 01:43 | |
| hicham1 | actually they charge $22 if you subscribe for one year | Mar 03 01:43 |
| Balrog | not that bad, actually | Mar 03 01:43 |
| Balrog | but still too much | Mar 03 01:44 |
| hicham1 | yes | Mar 03 01:44 |
| hicham1 | $22 for a usb modem | Mar 03 01:44 |
| hicham1 | while a modem router is less than $20 | Mar 03 01:44 |
| Balrog | yeah. :( | Mar 03 01:44 |
| hicham1 | they are promoting sagem in Morocco | Mar 03 01:44 |
| hicham1 | i dont understand why they developed this modem at first | Mar 03 01:45 |
| hicham1 | ethernet over usb! | Mar 03 01:45 |
| hicham1 | create logical interfaces and all the fuss just to use the usb interface | Mar 03 01:46 |
| hicham1 | sometimes u cant understand technology | Mar 03 01:46 |
| hicham1 | it is far beyond understanding | Mar 03 01:46 |
| hicham1 | but anyway people made this modem work under linux | Mar 03 01:46 |
| hicham1 | and it is a real victory | Mar 03 01:47 |
| hicham1 | the core driver as i said is included in the kernel | Mar 03 01:47 |
| hicham1 | u just have to provide the firmware | Mar 03 01:47 |
| hicham1 | what is ur overall comparison of java vs .net? | Mar 03 01:48 |
| *hicham_ has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Mar 03 01:48 | |
| hicham1 | i see that there is no one in here | Mar 03 01:49 |
| schestowitz | Java is advanced | Mar 03 01:49 |
| schestowitz | And mature | Mar 03 01:49 |
| schestowitz | Market around it too.. lots of it | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | and java is FOSS | Mar 03 01:50 |
| schestowitz | It's GPLed | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | .NET isn't | Mar 03 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Beat me to it | Mar 03 01:50 |
| hicham1 | what about the performance | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | performance is great | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | some say it's as good as native code | Mar 03 01:50 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure it matters much | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | for certain application | Mar 03 01:50 |
| schestowitz | The bottlenecks change as computers become stronger | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | (the HotSpot compiler optimizes code that runs repeatedly) | Mar 03 01:50 |
| Balrog | JIT-compiler that is | Mar 03 01:50 |
| schestowitz | So garbage collection on a 486 ain't the same as on a quad core | Mar 03 01:51 |
| schestowitz | It becomes a negligible factor | Mar 03 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Likewise with computers that nowadays come with 2GB of RAM | Mar 03 01:51 |
| Balrog | 4GB... | Mar 03 01:51 |
| hicham1 | it is always a problem | Mar 03 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Vista can't even use it | Mar 03 01:51 |
| Balrog | heh yeah | Mar 03 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Though it needs more than 2GB in many cases | Mar 03 01:52 |
| Balrog | even vista 64-bit edition can't use it??? | Mar 03 01:52 |
| schestowitz | Hitting the 64-bit barrier | Mar 03 01:52 |
| hicham1 | java garbage collector it is not as efficient as python's one | Mar 03 01:52 |
| schestowitz | Oracle uses Linux mostly. | Mar 03 01:52 |
| schestowitz | It needs s*loads of memory sometimes | Mar 03 01:52 |
| schestowitz | 32GB | Mar 03 01:52 |
| hicham1 | yes and java | Mar 03 01:52 |
| hicham1 | Oracle uses Java a lot | Mar 03 01:52 |
| schestowitz | Sleepycat? | Mar 03 01:52 |
| hicham1 | and it has an opensource division | Mar 03 01:53 |
| schestowitz | PR | Mar 03 01:53 |
| hicham1 | its express edition is open source, no | Mar 03 01:53 |
| hicham1 | ? | Mar 03 01:53 |
| schestowitz | At least they make better fs (btrfs) for us all. | Mar 03 01:53 |
| schestowitz | hicham1: Oracle?? | Mar 03 01:53 |
| hicham1 | am I wrong? | Mar 03 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Just gratis | Mar 03 01:53 |
| hicham1 | I am not sure | Mar 03 01:54 |
| hicham1 | yes, it is gratis | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | Lockin trick | Mar 03 01:54 |
| hicham1 | that is sure | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | Start small for free | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | Be locked in, start paying more as you scale up.. | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | I think it's mostly limit on processors... | Mar 03 01:54 |
| hicham1 | they were offering an installer just for RHEL | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | Not libre/visibility of code | Mar 03 01:54 |
| schestowitz | hicham1: Oracle and Novell never got in contact | Mar 03 01:55 |
| hicham1 | Java is always visible | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Almost nevr | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Unlike SAP.. | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Oracle keeps far from Microsoft and its clique. | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Ellison can't stand Microsoft. | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | He's jealous of them | Mar 03 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Lesser successful of the two evils. | Mar 03 01:55 |
| Balrog | what's lockin? | Mar 03 01:56 |
| schestowitz | Ellison and Paul Allen still compete over the length of their yacht as though these are penises | Mar 03 01:56 |
| hicham1 | Oracle want to dominate the whole market, whether it is windows, linux, mac os, ... | Mar 03 01:56 |
| schestowitz | They tailor them specifically to break records. | Mar 03 01:56 |
| schestowitz | Oracle is a ruthless machine to make money for investors | Mar 03 01:57 |
| hicham1 | that is what money do | Mar 03 01:57 |
| Balrog | I meant what's using lockin right now | Mar 03 01:57 |
| schestowitz | Which you know what they say... | Mar 03 01:57 |
| hicham1 | Oracle | Mar 03 01:57 |
| schestowitz | Ellison: "it's capitalism, I'm competing" | Mar 03 01:57 |
| hicham1 | is trying to lock the market | Mar 03 01:57 |
| hicham1 | by trapping linux users | Mar 03 01:57 |
| schestowitz | Tough love.,.. love for them, tough for everyone else. | Mar 03 01:57 |
| schestowitz | I think Ellison said this when he ripped off RHAT. | Mar 03 01:58 |
| hicham1 | but mysql and postgresql are rude competitors | Mar 03 01:58 |
| hicham1 | mysql is overwhelming the web | Mar 03 01:59 |
| hicham1 | and they can't do anything about it | Mar 03 01:59 |
| hicham1 | open source is coming | Mar 03 02:00 |
| hicham1 | and oracle is having great time trying to port existing Relational Databases to OO Databases | Mar 03 02:00 |
| hicham1 | it is a hard task | Mar 03 02:01 |
| hicham1 | what they have till now is just ... | Mar 03 02:01 |
| hicham1 | how do i say | Mar 03 02:01 |
| hicham1 | extending sql | Mar 03 02:01 |
| hicham1 | they will stay with the relational model | Mar 03 02:01 |
| balzac | I want Larry Elisson's yacht | Mar 03 02:02 |
| balzac | he is a douche | Mar 03 02:02 |
| tessier_ | hicham1: I'm not sure there is much of a difference between OO and relational. | Mar 03 02:02 |
| hicham1 | tessier_ : are you sure? | Mar 03 02:03 |
| hicham1 | have you worked with ObjectStore? | Mar 03 02:03 |
| tessier_ | Didn't I just say "I'm not sure" ? | Mar 03 02:03 |
| hicham1 | ah ok | Mar 03 02:04 |
| tessier_ | I've spent time with zodb. It was cool. I have also spent time with MySQL. That was interesting also. Now I'm working with Django and it's ORM talking to MySQL. Now they don't seem as different as I had thought. Soon I want to play with couchdb. Something altogether different although probably more object-like. | Mar 03 02:04 |
| schestowitz | balzac: the yacht is too large. Not much use in thaty. | Mar 03 02:04 |
| hicham1 | ObjectStore is 100% OO | Mar 03 02:04 |
| hicham1 | it is completely written in Java | Mar 03 02:05 |
| tessier_ | I've read about ObjectStore also. It has been around for a long time IIRC. | Mar 03 02:05 |
| balzac | Well, if I had enough money... | Mar 03 02:05 |
| tessier_ | It sounds cool also. But I don't think it's FOSS> | Mar 03 02:06 |
| tessier_ | And I'm not a big fan of Java. | Mar 03 02:06 |
| hicham1 | no, it is not FOSS | Mar 03 02:06 |
| hicham1 | but the way they conceived things is really neat | Mar 03 02:06 |
| tessier_ | How is it fundamentally different from MySQL or zodb? | Mar 03 02:06 |
| hicham1 | I havent worked with zodb | Mar 03 02:07 |
| tessier_ | zodb is an OO database also. | Mar 03 02:07 |
| hicham1 | but for MySql, it is a lot different | Mar 03 02:07 |
| tessier_ | It's fun and easy to use. Zope uses it. | Mar 03 02:07 |
| hicham1 | everything is object in object store | Mar 03 02:07 |
| tessier_ | Sounds like zope so far. | Mar 03 02:07 |
| hicham1 | you store everything as object | Mar 03 02:07 |
| tessier_ | Yep | Mar 03 02:08 |
| hicham1 | and you dont interact with a server | Mar 03 02:08 |
| tessier_ | Right | Mar 03 02:08 |
| hicham1 | the application do all the stuff | Mar 03 02:08 |
| tessier_ | Still sounds like zodb | Mar 03 02:08 |
| hicham1 | i will look for zodb | Mar 03 02:08 |
| tessier_ | And if you use an ORM with a relational db it works the same. | Mar 03 02:08 |
| hicham1 | but ObjectStore is a new way in managing databases | Mar 03 02:08 |
| tessier_ | How so? | Mar 03 02:09 |
| hicham1 | by suppressing the need for a server | Mar 03 02:09 |
| hicham1 | since they rely on java virtual machine for security | Mar 03 02:09 |
| hicham1 | and to be sincere with you, i wasnt a big fan of java | Mar 03 02:10 |
| hicham1 | but with the buffer overflow problem that is inherent to c/c++, i started to think that java will be a must | Mar 03 02:10 |
| hicham1 | but who knows, there is also other languages | Mar 03 02:11 |
| hicham1 | like python | Mar 03 02:11 |
| hicham1 | it is marvellous | Mar 03 02:11 |
| hicham1 | but it hasn't the marketing campaign that java has | Mar 03 02:11 |
| hicham1 | Plus the JDK isnt open source | Mar 03 02:12 |
| hicham1 | it is proprietary | Mar 03 02:13 |
| tessier_ | Right, python is currently my preferred language. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| hicham1 | do you work a lot with Python? | Mar 03 02:14 |
| tessier_ | I don't care about marketing. | Mar 03 02:14 |
| tessier_ | Yes | Mar 03 02:14 |
| hicham1 | a lot of Software Experts are seeing Python as the future of programming languages | Mar 03 02:14 |
| hicham1 | since java has many flaws | Mar 03 02:14 |
| hicham1 | in Linux, Python is very used | Mar 03 02:15 |
| tessier_ | So far I'm pretty happy with it. I'm still a fairly mediocre python programmer though. But I'm getting better. Haven't been doing it seriously for very long. | Mar 03 02:15 |
| hicham1 | what do you use at work? | Mar 03 02:15 |
| tessier_ | Perl and Python. Migrating towards Python. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| hicham1 | Python is much more compact than Perl | Mar 03 02:16 |
| hicham1 | perl is very vast | Mar 03 02:16 |
| tessier_ | Indeed. That's one reason why I like it better. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| hicham1 | and the python's code is much more clearer | Mar 03 02:17 |
| hicham1 | and shorter | Mar 03 02:17 |
| tessier_ | Yep | Mar 03 02:17 |
| tessier_ | http://isperldeadyet.com | Mar 03 02:17 |
| hicham1 | very cool one | Mar 03 02:19 |
| hicham1 | do u use linux at work a lot? | Mar 03 02:19 |
| tessier_ | I use only Linux at work. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| tessier_ | I have used Linux for 15 years. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| tessier_ | Linux is all I have ever done for work. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| hicham1 | wow | Mar 03 02:20 |
| hicham1 | must be a geek in linux | Mar 03 02:20 |
| hicham1 | what distro do u use? | Mar 03 02:20 |
| tessier_ | http://tracyreed.org/the-resum... | Mar 03 02:21 |
| tessier_ | I use Fedora on desktop and CentOS on my servers. | Mar 03 02:21 |
| hicham1 | great | Mar 03 02:21 |
| hicham1 | why do u think of CentOS ethically? | Mar 03 02:21 |
| schestowitz | python makes the IRC logs | Mar 03 02:22 |
| hicham1 | I have people say that CentOS is literally RHEL copied | Mar 03 02:22 |
| hicham1 | schestowitz : welcome back | Mar 03 02:22 |
| schestowitz | I'm preparing links for BN | Mar 03 02:22 |
| tessier_ | hicham1: It is RHEL literally copied. RHEL is GPL and other FOSS licenses. Copying is encouraged. It's why people use FOSS licenses. | Mar 03 02:22 |
| tessier_ | I have used RHEL before also. | Mar 03 02:23 |
| tessier_ | Sometimes it is the most appropriate solution for servers. | Mar 03 02:23 |
| tessier_ | I like how RedHat has stayed pretty true to FOSS | Mar 03 02:23 |
| tessier_ | I don't mind sending them some money for support | Mar 03 02:23 |
| schestowitz | Fedora is on a good track. Lots of Red Hat news today.. | Mar 03 02:23 |
| hicham1 | why people will then buy RHEL? | Mar 03 02:24 |
| hicham1 | for technical support? | Mar 03 02:24 |
| tessier_ | RH is profitable too and has been for years. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| tessier_ | Yes. Support. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| schestowitz | Windows goes off path while Fedora gets it back together after F8/9 which had some issues | Mar 03 02:24 |
| tessier_ | Yeah, 8/9 were a bit rough. 10 is working great. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| schestowitz | Oracle failed to hurt Rd hat | Mar 03 02:24 |
| schestowitz | It's in the news today | Mar 03 02:24 |
| tessier_ | I can't wait until my LTSP Term 1520 shows up. Then I'll have a decent desktop again. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| schestowitz | Lots about Oracle's Linux | Mar 03 02:24 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and Novell failed also | Mar 03 02:25 |
| hicham1 | RedHat is a great company | Mar 03 02:25 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat carries on growing | Mar 03 02:25 |
| schestowitz | MS/Novell was intended to break Red hat | Mar 03 02:25 |
| schestowitz | Actually, one of their execs mailed me some days ago | Mar 03 02:25 |
| hicham1 | what did he say? | Mar 03 02:25 |
| schestowitz | Nothing of significance | Mar 03 02:26 |
| schestowitz | But IBMers too were keeping an eye when I wrote about OOXML | Mar 03 02:26 |
| schestowitz | I've nothing to do with them. | Mar 03 02:26 |
| hicham1 | what do u think of Canonical, the official company of Ubuntu? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| schestowitz | I'm not a fan | Mar 03 02:31 |
| schestowitz | Some people in Digg (well, 1 of them actually) thinks I'm shilling for them or something | Mar 03 02:32 |
| schestowitz | He's an anti-Ubuntu person attacking anyone who adds something favourable about them. it's amusing | Mar 03 02:32 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu gets no love from long-time users... | Mar 03 02:32 |
| *tessier_ is ambivalent on Ubuntu | Mar 03 02:34 | |
| hicham1 | schestowitz : what do use mean by that ? | Mar 03 02:35 |
| schestowitz | Many people resent Ubuntu | Mar 03 02:36 |
| hicham1 | for what? | Mar 03 02:36 |
| schestowitz | They hate it for its popularity, rationalised by lack of contribution to kernel space. | Mar 03 02:36 |
| hicham1 | they contribute to kernel | Mar 03 02:36 |
| schestowitz | Some have an anything-but-ubuntu policy | Mar 03 02:36 |
| schestowitz | hicham1: I know, but perceptiually they don't | Mar 03 02:37 |
| schestowitz | Novell Greg K-H did the gig on them half a year ago | Mar 03 02:37 |
| hicham1 | they have some employees who work just on the kernel | Mar 03 02:37 |
| hicham1 | its forums are very active | Mar 03 02:37 |
| hicham1 | i havent seen such active forums in linux | Mar 03 02:38 |
| hicham1 | before | Mar 03 02:38 |
| hicham1 | no distro did get that much attention | Mar 03 02:38 |
| hicham1 | i agree that the marketing campaign was very good | Mar 03 02:38 |
| hicham1 | how is novell going with canonical? | Mar 03 02:39 |
| schestowitz | It's weird | Mar 03 02:39 |
| schestowitz | SUSE could be where Ubuntu is today on the desktop | Mar 03 02:40 |
| schestowitz | They blew it | Mar 03 02:40 |
| hicham1 | SUSE and its policy is drifting people away | Mar 03 02:42 |
| schestowitz | I think so.. | Mar 03 02:46 |
| hicham1 | but Canonical is very clever | Mar 03 02:47 |
| hicham1 | Mark Shuttleworth is an experienced ex debian developer | Mar 03 02:47 |
| hicham1 | so he knows how to manage a distribution | Mar 03 02:47 |
| hicham1 | plus his great sense for business | Mar 03 02:47 |
| hicham1 | I will add up sthg to that, this guy is already rich | Mar 03 02:49 |
| schestowitz | I hope so. | Mar 03 02:52 |
| schestowitz | He does allow for many to fork or derive from Ubuntu, so there's no loss really. | Mar 03 02:52 |
| hicham1 | Mandriva has done a really bad thing | Mar 03 02:53 |
| hicham1 | its Founder Gael Duval get laid off | Mar 03 02:53 |
| hicham1 | which is really not good | Mar 03 02:53 |
| hicham1 | the people there are just ingrateful | Mar 03 02:54 |
| hicham1 | everybody is sleeping in here | Mar 03 02:58 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | Mar 03 02:59 |
| schestowitz | I write to him sometimes | Mar 03 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva's CEO got canned | Mar 03 02:59 |
| schestowitz | I think... | Mar 03 02:59 |
| schestowitz | hicham1: not sleeping yet. I'll do the links first, before they age | Mar 03 02:59 |
| hicham1 | ok | Mar 03 03:00 |
| hicham1 | what do u think about that? | Mar 03 03:00 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva? | Mar 03 03:01 |
| schestowitz | In general, it's a stunning beginning of the week for Linux. | Mar 03 03:01 |
| schestowitz | The economy is a PITA though. | Mar 03 03:01 |
| schestowitz | Cousin writes: 'Based on what he sees in current events, I cannot disagree with what Gerald Celente’s view of the future. A war economy bailed the U.S out of recession in the 1940’s but if we were to be more involved in military action it would surely impoverish the nation.' | Mar 03 03:01 |