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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 14th, 2009 - Part 1



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ZiggyfishGoogle, not really, as it still promotes opensource software, and can only effect the OS indestry as much as Apple and Linux will let it.Apr 14 00:00
schestowitzThe trolls in USENET are getting very jealous and scared of Linux sites right now because Microsoft has no new products and nobody would touch Vista7 when hardware is saddled to it some time next year. There's this tendency to associate critics of MS based on how much the trolls get annoyed. It's a good thing.Apr 14 00:00
schestowitzZiggyfish: they are against AGPL (Google)Apr 14 00:00
schestowitzThey create a new wave of FOSS uersApr 14 00:01
schestowitzDeployers, not contributorsApr 14 00:01
schestowitzZiggyfish: to put it briefly, Google wants to stifle SaaS returns, Apple and Microsoft de-commoditise the Web. Both are self-serving and GNU-hostile.Apr 14 00:04
ZiggyfishDeploying Linux = contributing? Contributing isn't just about developing is it? AGPL I don't like my self anyway, doesn't it allow derivitives to be closed source?Apr 14 00:04
ZiggyfishtrueApr 14 00:05
schestowitzBut wait...Apr 14 00:08
schestowitzTo clarify;Apr 14 00:09
schestowitzGoogle does not need to use AGPLApr 14 00:09
schestowitzThat is fineApr 14 00:09
schestowitzBut..Apr 14 00:09
schestowitzThe issue, in case you were not watching, Google discourages other devs from using AGPLvxApr 14 00:09
schestowitzSo it offers them no choice but to leave SaaS loophole. Not fair..Apr 14 00:09
schestowitzGoogle loves Apache LicenceApr 14 00:10
taconelike in google code.Apr 14 00:12
taconei don't think that's really legal by the wayApr 14 00:12
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Balrog_tacone: can you use AGPL in google code?Apr 14 00:21
taconeNO.Apr 14 00:21
Balrog_that's no good :XApr 14 00:21
taconeit's not present in the drop downApr 14 00:21
Balrog_is there a custom option?Apr 14 00:21
taconebut i don't think any rule is in place ot prevent you to use it in the code.Apr 14 00:22
taconeno custom option. google official excuse is:'we just put the most widely diffused licenses'Apr 14 00:22
schestowitz:-)Apr 14 00:22
Balrog_hrm. I'll use my own hosting thenApr 14 00:22
schestowitzCVhoice is badApr 14 00:22
schestowitzWhen the choice is badApr 14 00:22
Balrog_or just put AGPL in each wiki pageApr 14 00:22
taconebut i don't think they remembered to put a rule to forbid agplApr 14 00:22
schestowitz[To Google]Apr 14 00:22
taconeso if you put it in the headers of the files.. well.. i don't think anyone can do anything about that.Apr 14 00:23
taconeas for me I use launchpad.Apr 14 00:23
schestowitzSo much troubleApr 14 00:23
schestowitzOnly to ensure people don't mooch youApr 14 00:23
schestowitzThink about it...Apr 14 00:23
schestowitzYou write some PHP stuffApr 14 00:23
schestowitzLike WordPress or DrupalApr 14 00:23
schestowitzPeople can proprietarise it if your project is on GoogleApr 14 00:23
schestowitzAnd Google is a-OK with thatApr 14 00:24
_Hicham_wowApr 14 00:24
_Hicham_why host it on Google then?Apr 14 00:24
schestowitzBecause that's just what is does (Blogger, search, Gmail...)Apr 14 00:24
Balrog_is AGPL 'blessed' by OSI?Apr 14 00:24
schestowitz_Hicham_: exactlyApr 14 00:24
schestowitzRhetoricalApr 14 00:24
_Hicham_better uses old sourceforgeApr 14 00:24
schestowitzPut it in SavannahApr 14 00:24
taconei use bzr.Apr 14 00:24
schestowitzBalrog: yesApr 14 00:24
schestowitzAGPLv3Apr 14 00:24
taconelaunchpad makes up for a great bug trackerApr 14 00:25
schestowitzFunambol from italy submitted itApr 14 00:25
Balrog_that was google's excuseApr 14 00:25
schestowitzNot AfferoApr 14 00:25
schestowitz:-)Apr 14 00:25
taconeit will be opensourced soon.Apr 14 00:25
schestowitzIs Affero Spanish?Apr 14 00:25
schestowitztacone: yes, AGPLApr 14 00:25
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schestowitzGoogle is afraid ot itApr 14 00:25
taconeyes it is.Apr 14 00:25
_Hicham_host a project on Google and ur fucked, great !!!Apr 14 00:25
schestowitzWordPress kicks Blogger's arseApr 14 00:25
taconeblogger sucksApr 14 00:26
schestowitzIf WordPress goes AGPL, then Google is left behind with no advantage to capitaliseApr 14 00:26
taconethe only thing is it does scale better.Apr 14 00:26
schestowitzAnd I imagine that many blogspotters escape to their own placeApr 14 00:26
schestowitzWordPress+PMALApr 14 00:26
taconewordpress will never go agplApr 14 00:27
taconebtw agpl is a bit of a burden.Apr 14 00:27
taconehaving to release every change is time consuming.Apr 14 00:27
Balrog_tacone: I thought you only have to release if asked...?Apr 14 00:28
taconeBalrog_: that's the same.Apr 14 00:28
Balrog_well, that makes it simpler than releasing every changeApr 14 00:28
taconeagpl makes sense for stuff like launchpad.Apr 14 00:28
schestowitzBalrog: just make availableApr 14 00:29
schestowitzSo you can toss a public copy of your filesApr 14 00:29
schestowitzIf you make significant changesApr 14 00:29
schestowitzNot just hacking a little on WPApr 14 00:29
schestowitzI'm maintaining wp-hackers stats still :-)Apr 14 00:29
Balrog_(I hack on wp :P )Apr 14 00:29
taconeeverybody hacks on wp.Apr 14 00:30
Balrog_so what do you think of Wikipedia moving to CC license?Apr 14 00:30
Balrog_good thing?Apr 14 00:31
Balrog_tacone or schestowitz: ?Apr 14 00:32
tacone?Apr 14 00:33
Balrog_Wikipedia wants to move from GFDL to Creative CommonsApr 14 00:33
taconei'm no expert on CC.Apr 14 00:33
Balrog_(Attribution - Share Alike)Apr 14 00:33
Balrog_it's a rather simple licenseApr 14 00:33
taconeno derivative works ?Apr 14 00:33
Balrog_not that oneApr 14 00:33
Balrog_derivative works are okApr 14 00:34
Balrog_http://creativecommons.org/li...Apr 14 00:34
Balrog_http://creativecommons.org/lic...Apr 14 00:34
Balrog_**Apr 14 00:34
taconei see it like a good thing. but i really don't know well any of the two licenses.Apr 14 00:34
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schestowitztacone: they are compatibleApr 14 00:37
schestowitzRMS is cool with thaty, AFAIKApr 14 00:37
schestowitzHe compromisedApr 14 00:37
Balrog_if you want you can vote (you're qualified if you made at least 25 edits prior to March 15)Apr 14 00:37
_Hicham_oiaohm just woke upApr 14 00:38
Balrog_yeah, he asked his video to be under creative commons Attribution-No Derivative WorksApr 14 00:38
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxinsider.com/stor...  Google fear.Apr 14 00:40
oiaohmGoogle problem is its getting too much power.Apr 14 00:41
oiaohmA google mistake could do massive harm.Apr 14 00:41
oiaohmYep then they forget about all the statics companies that are used to bend the truth.Apr 14 00:42
Balrog_anyone knows of a good stats plugin for WP?Apr 14 00:46
oiaohmhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=...  MS working out what lies will fly.Apr 14 00:46
schestowitzoiaohm: agreed, re: GoogleApr 14 00:48
schestowitzBalrog: got no apache side sw?Apr 14 00:49
schestowitzIt's less resource intensiveApr 14 00:49
Balrog_yes, but I want full detailsApr 14 00:49
Balrog_I don't have ssh access to this server :(Apr 14 00:49
schestowitzWordPress->Entend has a fewApr 14 00:49
schestowitzThey seem weakApr 14 00:49
schestowitzWithout JS you can't get much anywayApr 14 00:49
schestowitzSpyware like Urchin (Google Anal[sic]0Apr 14 00:49
Balrog_what do you mean without JS?Apr 14 00:49
Balrog_well I'm putting the JS there, so I won't call it spyware....Apr 14 00:50
Ziggyfishoiaohm, asking weather Windows * is secure is like asking 'Are you going to die if you fall off a cliff?'Apr 14 00:50
schestowitzBalrog: no rectal inspection of user's machineApr 14 00:50
taconesadly that spies for google not for you.Apr 14 00:50
schestowitzLike Google doesApr 14 00:50
schestowitzFor those who don't use NoScript of the likesApr 14 00:50
Balrog_schestowitz: what about if I use my own JS and not google's?Apr 14 00:50
schestowitzPeople don't realise that when they visit some sites they are spied on by 10 domainsApr 14 00:50
schestowitzHarvesting with XSSApr 14 00:51
taconethey don't even give you the ip of the visitorsApr 14 00:51
schestowitzBalrog: Good luck with thatApr 14 00:51
oiaohm10Apr 14 00:52
schestowitzGoogle is radically intrusiveApr 14 00:52
schestowitzIt's urchin reallyApr 14 00:52
oiaohmYou are being very light on.Apr 14 00:52
schestowitzThey even check your scrreenresApr 14 00:52
taconethat's quite normal.Apr 14 00:52
oiaohmworst site I have found around 50 tracking sites.Apr 14 00:52
balzacWikipedia Community Vote On License MigrationApr 14 00:52
schestowitzI knowApr 14 00:52
schestowitzBut JS reliantApr 14 00:52
Balrog_screenres tends to be useful dataApr 14 00:52
balzachttp://tech.slashdot.org/ar...Apr 14 00:52
oiaohmYahoo and google have got sneaky.Apr 14 00:52
schestowitzApache logs don't give you much infoApr 14 00:52
oiaohmgoogle and yahoo apiApr 14 00:52
balzacI'm skeptical that the GNU FDL is not sufficient for wikipediaApr 14 00:52
oiaohmIf the page is done with them disabling the tracking disables the page.Apr 14 00:53
balzacI think it's probably politics at workApr 14 00:53
schestowitzIto?Apr 14 00:53
schestowitzOr Wales?Apr 14 00:53
oiaohmFDL is a harder licence to understand than creative commons.Apr 14 00:54
balzacthat's plausibleApr 14 00:55
balzacbut I'm not excited to see a bunch of content losing the GNU license, which seemed good enough for all these yearsApr 14 00:55
balzacIt's not the work of the FSF to worry about contentApr 14 00:55
balzacand Larry Lessig is a personal friend of RMS, so it's not a big deal.Apr 14 00:56
balzacI'm just wanting to see more people learn about GNUApr 14 00:56
oiaohmPeople who fear a licence will not reuse stuff.Apr 14 00:56
balzacThe FSF doesn't worry about content not related to software documentationApr 14 00:57
oiaohmCC has got that bit right.Apr 14 00:57
balzacyeah, I'm not worried about itApr 14 00:57
balzacCC is probably a fine license for most of that stuffApr 14 00:57
oiaohmhttp://ostatic.com/blog/google-up...  << Google is at least trying to do the right things.Apr 14 00:57
balzacIt just goes to show how strong and innovative GNU licenses areApr 14 00:57
balzacAnother project incubated under a GNU license, then finds another license after attaining success.Apr 14 00:58
oiaohmGNU licences really need to work on there plain english documentation.Apr 14 00:58
balzacThere was no CC at the timeApr 14 00:58
oiaohmLegal licences have bad habit of causing fear.Apr 14 00:58
balzacoiaohm: yeah, I don't think GNU licenses can be blamed for that.Apr 14 00:59
balzacFear for commercial users, relief for academic usersApr 14 00:59
balzacoiaohm: a lot of your arguments remind me of what I call the "corporate libertarian" viewpointApr 14 01:00
oiaohmThe licence is fine.Apr 14 01:00
balzac"libertarianism" as seen through the lense of corporate interests, not individual civil libertyApr 14 01:00
oiaohmThe supporting documentation explaining the licence clearly without big shades of grey is missingApr 14 01:00
oiaohmAsk the questions about linking GPL into a commerical program.  Or GPL using a closed soure part.Apr 14 01:01
oiaohmBoth can become a huge mess in what is allowed and what is not.Apr 14 01:02
oiaohmMostly caused by lack of clear documentation decribing the licence.Apr 14 01:02
oiaohmCC does not have the problem.  They got the documentation right.Apr 14 01:02
balzacyeah, well it's fine, I think.Apr 14 01:02
balzacI realize it was a negotiated solutionApr 14 01:03
balzacthe latest GDFL was made to release content to CCApr 14 01:03
balzacit was on purpose that this has been made possible, and I bet Stallman and Lessig are in cahoutz about itApr 14 01:03
oiaohmOk you chicken and egg with GPL.  If you have a closed source module built before you got the GPL code and you make GPL code use it the code can remain closed source.Apr 14 01:04
oiaohmProblem is proving that the closed source module existed before you got GPL.Apr 14 01:04
balzacoiaohm: simpleApr 14 01:04
balzaccopies derived from the code which existed prior to GPL-licensing can be made proprietaryApr 14 01:04
balzaccopies derived from the code after GPL-licensing can not be made proprietaryApr 14 01:04
oiaohmNop that is not the end of it.Apr 14 01:05
oiaohmIf a department in the company developed a closed source module independant to the GPL then it gets joined you have huge mother of grey.Apr 14 01:05
*Balrog_ is now known as gandalfApr 14 01:06
oiaohmOf course it should not be grey.Apr 14 01:06
*gandalf is now known as Balrog_Apr 14 01:06
balzaccan you rephrase?Apr 14 01:06
balzacI'm having trouble reading your intended meaning.Apr 14 01:06
oiaohmProblem is proving independant development.Apr 14 01:07
oiaohmIf code is developed independant internally to the GPL code it can legally remain a closed source part used by a GPL program.Apr 14 01:07
oiaohmAs long as it used in another item to prove independance.Apr 14 01:08
oiaohmderived works clause is a evil to understand.Apr 14 01:08
oiaohmIts basically simpler avoid like plague.Apr 14 01:09
oiaohmGPL had to be writen in a way that building with a closed source complier was not impossiable.Apr 14 01:10
oiaohmRemember closed source compliers will link closed source object files into executable.Apr 14 01:10
oiaohmThe result being the licence has a nasty shade of grey balzacApr 14 01:11
oiaohmAnd a nasty big loop hole.Apr 14 01:12
_Hicham_GNU aims to provide a free as in freedom operating systemApr 14 01:13
oiaohmAdd what ever special features you like to your closed source complier and you never have to release the source code.Apr 14 01:13
_Hicham_but it is not feasibleApr 14 01:13
balzacSometimes legalese is necessarily vague and relies on the discretion of judges to determine how the legal terminology should be interpreted in a particular caseApr 14 01:13
oiaohmNot really.Apr 14 01:13
balzacyou argumentative Australian!Apr 14 01:14
balzacby god...Apr 14 01:14
balzacyes really.Apr 14 01:14
_Hicham_that is oiaohm, endless good conversationsApr 14 01:14
oiaohmIt has been proven if a licence has supporting documentation that is approved what is said in that documenation is basically sets the ruling.Apr 14 01:14
oiaohmYou really don't need a court case to sourt out how a licence/contract should be interperted.Apr 14 01:15
oiaohmBasically it goes before a judge when you cannot agree on what the terminology is.Apr 14 01:15
balzacsometimes the vaguery of a legal issue is due to a lack of legal precedentApr 14 01:16
balzacsometimes legalese is necessarily vagueApr 14 01:17
oiaohmAgain you don't have to wait for legal precedent if you choose not to.Apr 14 01:17
balzacagain yourself, australianApr 14 01:17
balzacyou can wait, or you can be pro-activeApr 14 01:17
oiaohmExactly.Apr 14 01:18
balzacit's a choiceApr 14 01:18
oiaohmCreative common choose the pro-active path.Apr 14 01:18
oiaohmGNU has chosing the sit back and wait in a lot of parts.Apr 14 01:18
balzacwell, those who are pro-active to create new legal precedents may find themselves challenged by someone who might prefer to have less specificityApr 14 01:18
balzacand more discretion for interpretationApr 14 01:19
balzacthat's smartApr 14 01:19
balzacanyway, the latest GDFL was written in such a way as to make this transition possible.Apr 14 01:19
oiaohmpro-active gets the challenge out the way.Apr 14 01:19
oiaohmSo everyone can go about there business not worring about the define.Apr 14 01:20
balzacsome people are more "purpose driven" and others are more "existentialist" in their philosophyApr 14 01:20
oiaohmbusinesss are more purpose driven.Apr 14 01:21
balzacI'm a small businessman, and my business plans are derived from my existentialist philosophyApr 14 01:22
_Hicham_balzac : u r a rare caseApr 14 01:23
balzacperhaps I will take advantage of the short-term, purpose-driven nature of my competitors.Apr 14 01:23
_Hicham_u maybe rightApr 14 01:23
_Hicham_maybe philosophy will win at lastApr 14 01:23
_Hicham_but u should incorporate oiaohm philosophy for sureApr 14 01:24
balzacyeah, maybe he can work for meApr 14 01:24
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balzacif he shows a bit more enthusiasm for GNU softwareApr 14 01:25
oiaohmThis country gets warped.   If a contract is too complex to understand judge has the right here to kick it back to both parties to be recreated.Apr 14 01:25
oiaohmSoftware is a tool to get a job done balzacApr 14 01:25
oiaohmSome GNU software I like others I hate extreamally.Apr 14 01:26
oiaohmGNU at least has a higher percentage of programs I like than MS does.Apr 14 01:26
balzacoiaohm: software can be more like a glove and less like a tool for meApr 14 01:26
_Hicham_oiaohm do not care about philosophyApr 14 01:27
balzacI'm not strictly utilitarian in my approachApr 14 01:27
balzacyeah, he might enjoy some shroomsApr 14 01:27
oiaohmSystem admin.Apr 14 01:27
balzacor better yet, smoke some marijuanaApr 14 01:27
_Hicham_oiaohm just want the greatest tools out thereApr 14 01:27
oiaohmI kinda have had to be utilitarian.Apr 14 01:27
_Hicham_oiaohm : have u ever smoked some marijuana?Apr 14 01:28
balzacoiaohm: you don't have to stop loving what you do just because you have to do it.Apr 14 01:28
oiaohmWho said I don't love my work.Apr 14 01:28
balzacutilitarianism is work. you can appreciate your work as an art form.Apr 14 01:28
oiaohmmarijuana never smoked eaten before for pain control.Apr 14 01:28
balzacif you're not appreciating the "art" of systems administration, perhaps there's room for you to enjoy your work more than you do.Apr 14 01:29
oiaohmThe art of putting toeghter a fully secure system.Apr 14 01:29
oiaohmMS windows drives me nuts on that one.Apr 14 01:29
balzacfine, well if you see it as an art form, it's not strictly utilitarianApr 14 01:29
oiaohmLinux BSD Solarias.Apr 14 01:29
oiaohmSelection of applications for secuirty is basically utilitarian.Apr 14 01:30
oiaohmEither its good or its bad.Apr 14 01:30
balzacnot soApr 14 01:30
oiaohmFor the task no middle ground.Apr 14 01:30
balzacrisk can also be mitigated by insurance, so you may choose a less secure method if it can save time on configuration or developmentApr 14 01:31
balzacthere is middle groundApr 14 01:31
balzacit's not either good or badApr 14 01:31
oiaohmMS logic.Apr 14 01:31
_Hicham_troolean logic?Apr 14 01:31
balzacthat's just a general business principleApr 14 01:31
oiaohmLets make system easy to configure and forget security.Apr 14 01:32
_Hicham_oiaohm : that is a good oneApr 14 01:32
oiaohmHopefully no one will notice.Apr 14 01:32
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_Hicham_of courseApr 14 01:32
_Hicham_u should do thatApr 14 01:32
_Hicham_friendliness is more importantApr 14 01:32
balzacoiaohm: or perhaps you know a certain percentage will notice, and you will modify policy and code accordinglyApr 14 01:32
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oiaohmYou can get simple to configure and highly secuire with work.Apr 14 01:32
_Hicham_oiaohm : u have to take into account the learning curveApr 14 01:33
balzacperhaps you're already tracking security breaches, and none of them alone can compromise your business plan.Apr 14 01:33
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oiaohm_Hicham_ most secuirty problems are pure stupidity.Apr 14 01:33
balzacoiaohm: case in point - email protocol and spamApr 14 01:33
oiaohmI have a simple evil for that.Apr 14 01:34
balzacnot very secure protocol, yet it has been tolerated until 90% of email is spamApr 14 01:34
oiaohmCalled a trojan mail account.Apr 14 01:34
balzacpeople are still chugging alongApr 14 01:34
oiaohmAnything sent to that account is spam.Apr 14 01:34
oiaohmSo removed from the rest.Apr 14 01:34
oiaohmWhen out of my way to get it listed everywhere.Apr 14 01:34
oiaohmthat spammers pick up email addressesApr 14 01:35
oiaohmEverything has counter messures.Apr 14 01:35
oiaohmProblem is a OS like windows makes it hard.Apr 14 01:36
oiaohmMostly stupid selections that you have to try to fix.  Like applicatins not being design not to run as administartor.Apr 14 01:36
oiaohmIts like my network unknown worm detection for windows.Apr 14 01:37
oiaohmIts so simple back up all harddrives to a centeral server and compare the differences.Apr 14 01:38
oiaohmProvides good backups of clients and good detection if the core of OS gets breached.Apr 14 01:39
balzaci'm sorry you have to use windowsApr 14 01:39
oiaohmSame here.Apr 14 01:39
balzacso do i, unfortunately. just for browser tests.Apr 14 01:39
oiaohmTax offince in this countray does not support anything else.Apr 14 01:39
oiaohmNot even Mac.Apr 14 01:39
balzacsickApr 14 01:39
oiaohmI started off lot like you.  Just hear you have accept it.Apr 14 01:40
oiaohmhear/hereApr 14 01:40
oiaohmI really want to be rid of Windows Servers.Apr 14 01:41
oiaohmWindows clients if I have to live with them so be it.Apr 14 01:41
balzaclike me?Apr 14 01:42
balzacmaybe so, maybe not.Apr 14 01:42
balzacno bureaucrat breaks my "maverick" personalityApr 14 01:42
oiaohmThere is a difference here.  I was a little too far maverick at one point.Apr 14 01:43
schestowitzWhoa. Turns out that American troops up here in Yorkshire already make copies of all transatlantic E-mail and run parsers on them to interpret pattern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Apr 14 01:43
balzacoiaohm: so you were brow-beaten and your ego never recovered its original shape?Apr 14 01:44
oiaohmNot exactly.Apr 14 01:44
balzacit looks a bit lumpy from where i'm sitting ;0)Apr 14 01:44
oiaohmStarted as a secuirty tester.Apr 14 01:45
oiaohmMy goal is to protect systems from harm as much as able what is a mirror to my past goal.  That was to crack every OS in existance at least once.Apr 14 01:45
oiaohmI completely my first goal.Apr 14 01:46
schestowitzIt's bad enough that civil liberties are lost here, but by imperialists too?Apr 14 01:46
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oiaohmThat is what I was get at that email is not secret.Apr 14 01:46
oiaohmSame with the internet access.Apr 14 01:47
oiaohmYou can cause hell sending the list of words they search for.Apr 14 01:47
balzac"feeding the NSA line-eater"Apr 14 01:47
oiaohmParticularly when you do have the complete correct list.Apr 14 01:48
oiaohmSupprising how fast there repsonce time is.Apr 14 01:49
oiaohmTo be correct lack of.Apr 14 01:49
oiaohm2 months latter got contacted about it.Apr 14 01:49
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balzacI don't have the time or inclination to yank their chainsApr 14 02:04
schestowitzThis guy's cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Apr 14 02:05
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balzacWe could use more guys like him in the CIAApr 14 02:21
balzacI'm pretty content with Leon Panetta as CIA Director, so far.Apr 14 02:22
oiaohmFound a network glitch at long last.Apr 14 02:22
oiaohmGod darn ants.Apr 14 02:22
schestowitzHaha.Apr 14 02:22
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schestowitzBug in the programApr 14 02:22
schestowitzLiterally/.Apr 14 02:22
balzacMaybe an ant-eater will be your security helperApr 14 02:23
balzacUsing ant-eaters for security - O'Reilly PublishingApr 14 02:24
balzacbut it would have another unrelated animal on the coverApr 14 02:24
oiaohmFinding it has been a channage and a half.Apr 14 02:24
balzacchallenge?Apr 14 02:24
schestowitzbalzac: gets a geckoApr 14 02:24
schestowitzLike in FraserApr 14 02:24
balzacFrasier?Apr 14 02:25
oiaohmHad geckos in switches before.Apr 14 02:25
schestowitzbalzac: yes, typoApr 14 02:25
oiaohmThey are straong.Apr 14 02:25
oiaohmstrangeApr 14 02:25
schestowitzWas one of my favourite programmesApr 14 02:25
balzacFrasier is annoyingApr 14 02:25
oiaohmDyslexia winning.Apr 14 02:25
balzacI'm embarrassed to admit having sat through a few episodesApr 14 02:25
schestowitzbalzac: he's annoying, yes.Apr 14 02:25
schestowitzDaphne was cuteApr 14 02:25
balzacDyslexia is an over-used excuse for lazy peopleApr 14 02:26
schestowitzAnyway, good nightApr 14 02:26
balzacnite royApr 14 02:26
balzaci liked everyone but frasierApr 14 02:26
oiaohmCompared to what I can be that is minor.Apr 14 02:26
balzacbecause I know he's a Bush-loverApr 14 02:26
balzacbefore that, he didn't really bother meApr 14 02:26
oiaohmIf I was lazy you would not be able to read a thing.Apr 14 02:27
oiaohmAbout 1 in 10 words I have to retype before sending.Apr 14 02:27
balzac"If I were lazy"Apr 14 02:27
balzacre-typeApr 14 02:27
balzacmaybeApr 14 02:27
oiaohmSome days I am.Apr 14 02:28
oiaohmMost of those days I am too lazy to be online as well.Apr 14 02:28
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balzacthere's a pill for thatApr 14 02:35
balzacadderallApr 14 02:35
balzacbut it's bad for youApr 14 02:35
balzacI'm drinking two 5-hour caffeine drinks per dayApr 14 02:36
balzacnot great eitherApr 14 02:36
oiaohmcaffenine + dyslexia equals 100 percent unreadable documents.Apr 14 02:36
oiaohmThat is not a option for me If I want to be able to type or write.Apr 14 02:37
oiaohmFine if I am reading documents.Apr 14 02:37
balzaceveryone has dyslexia and ADDApr 14 02:38
balzacyou just need a less sympathetic employer to help you realize you're replaceable... jkApr 14 02:39
balzacI need to get something to eatApr 14 02:39
oiaohmEveryone does to a point.  I have worked on my dyslexia to remove most of its problems.   I started off not being able to type a single sentence because  of it.Apr 14 02:46
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oiaohmThese days It gives me annoyance balzacApr 14 02:46
taconeomfApr 14 02:47
taconethis just went on planet ubuntuApr 14 02:47
taconehttp://jbailey.livejournal...Apr 14 02:47
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DaemonFCMinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaADQ...Apr 14 06:11
DaemonFCyou should like thatApr 14 06:11
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MinceRDaemonFC: lolApr 14 06:57
DaemonFCI managed to cut about 80% of Vista out with vLiteApr 14 07:00
DaemonFCand the system still installs and runsApr 14 07:00
DaemonFC:PApr 14 07:00
DaemonFCit fits on a CD tooApr 14 07:00
*DaemonFC put it into Virtual Box for when something refuses to run in WineApr 14 07:01
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DaemonFCEA Confirms Mass Effect 2 for 2010 - Won't comment on if you can get through the first level without the Red Ring of Death this timeApr 14 07:16
DaemonFCB-)Apr 14 07:16
DaemonFCGoogle Earth now does Google Mars, letting users fly from the Olympus Mons to Dick Cheney's Halliburton Pod in 3dApr 14 07:18
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DaemonFCMincer: http://freexpkey.ytmnd.com/Apr 14 07:30
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DaemonFChttp://video.google.com/videopl...Apr 14 07:34
DaemonFCFAIL on word 5Apr 14 07:34
DaemonFCouchApr 14 07:34
schestowitzThailand’s Chaos Exposes Division Between Rich, Poor  < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=... >Apr 14 07:57
schestowitz"This really is remarkable.  You really need to look at it closely, particularly this sentence: Fifty percent of those surveyed by Dimensional Research said they've considered switching to a non-Windows OS to avoid Vista or Windows 7. " http://www.informationweek.com/ne...Apr 14 08:01
schestowitzWon't be long before Miceosoft bribes Forrester and IDC for contradictory.. lies, as usual (like with Vista)Apr 14 08:05
schestowitzhttp://jbailey.livejournal.c... "I propose that the next release of Ubuntu be 9.11, and be called "Bumbling Bush"" *LOL*Apr 14 08:06
schestowitzConroy Wins - Germany De-Registers Wikileaks.de < http://www.itwire.com/cont... >Apr 14 08:10
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schestowitzState of Illinois is of ODF: http://www.tax.illinois.gov/L...Apr 14 08:12
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schestowitzWill Linux overtake Windows on netbooks? Some analysts say so. < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9022... >Apr 14 08:16
DaemonFCschestowitz: SO basically XP is getting too old to handle the new and cool stuff, but Vista and 7 are too broken and slow to upgrade to"Apr 14 08:19
schestowitzHalf Of Microsoft Employees Use Google To Search Web. Ballmer told them not to. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-microso...Apr 14 08:19
DaemonFCMicrosoft has made the perfect storm of shit for itselfApr 14 08:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: I think business know it's a marketing stunt . Vista7 that isApr 14 08:19
schestowitzVista was the sameApr 14 08:19
schestowitzGo back in time to 2006Apr 14 08:19
schestowitzSee Vista reviews and coverageApr 14 08:20
DaemonFCWindows 7 has only gotten worseApr 14 08:20
schestowitzIT WAS HAILED, I REMEMEBER. I saw it 15 hours/dayApr 14 08:20
DaemonFCin fact I can now run a lot of stuff in Wine that Vista, 7, or both will fail to loadApr 14 08:20
schestowitzAnother 3600 (or more jobs) at Microsoft to drop. Well, they did the crimes. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-...Apr 14 08:21
schestowitzHiow many of these will be WIndows XP/2000 patchers?Apr 14 08:21
DaemonFCI liked Windows 2000Apr 14 08:23
DaemonFCbut after that they just started to take away features and put in DRM to take control away from the userApr 14 08:24
schestowitzGreed/HubrisApr 14 08:24
schestowitzIBm did the same thing"Apr 14 08:24
schestowitz"We build it, they will come" (Field of dreams)Apr 14 08:24
schestowitzMicrosoft is now busy /openly/ attacking Apple and Linux, which is tellingApr 14 08:24
DaemonFCthey're trying to make it look like they have a business plan with new product deploymentsApr 14 08:25
DaemonFCby tweaking VistaApr 14 08:25
schestowitzThey have toApr 14 08:28
schestowitzOffice is a bigger headacheApr 14 08:28
DaemonFCmeh, IBM is alright, they're not actualyl doing a lot with AIX these daysApr 14 08:28
schestowitzIt brought more incomeApr 14 08:28
DaemonFCthey're pushing LInuxApr 14 08:28
schestowitzBut now they dump itApr 14 08:28
schestowitzLikle$50 for studentsApr 14 08:28
schestowitzHere in the UK they have TV ads selling it for like GBP60 to anyoneApr 14 08:29
DaemonFCYeah, and student means you have to be enrolled for 1 credit hourApr 14 08:29
DaemonFC:PApr 14 08:29
schestowitzAnd they'll need to move to subscription onlineApr 14 08:29
schestowitz(they still build it)Apr 14 08:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: I actually got Vista and Office for $5 eachApr 14 08:29
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DaemonFCthrough the student programApr 14 08:29
schestowitzYEs, not good for them.Apr 14 08:30
schestowitzIt's expensive thoughApr 14 08:30
*kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellApr 14 08:30
schestowitzI reckon like 2/3 of the installlations are counterfeitedApr 14 08:30
schestowitzSingapore, Vietnam, Russia, Kenya, Brazil...Apr 14 08:30
schestowitzNo crackdowns there, almostApr 14 08:30
DaemonFCWell, I used to just buy used copies of Windows and OfficeApr 14 08:30
DaemonFCso I really didn't care what it costApr 14 08:30
DaemonFCcause I was getting them for $10-20Apr 14 08:31
schestowitzMaybe buiness users pay for it, they have more to lose if caughtApr 14 08:31
DaemonFCthey have more chance to get caughtApr 14 08:31
DaemonFCMicrosoft comes in and audits themApr 14 08:31
DaemonFCif you swipe a copy of Vista, the only way they'd know is if they saw you in the bittorrent swarmApr 14 08:31
schestowitzWell, *there's* a turn of events: http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-google... (Google Decides Not To Cave To South Korean Government)Apr 14 08:32
DaemonFCthats assuming you shut down updates and put all of Microsofts domains in the hosts file :PApr 14 08:32
schestowitzThey don't want to catch peopleApr 14 08:32
schestowitzThey want to just create a scareApr 14 08:33
schestowitzTo improve conversion rates (paid/nopt paid)Apr 14 08:33
schestowitzThat's why they have "terrorism day" like so-called "piracy awareness day" or whateverApr 14 08:33
DaemonFCright, if they started to prosecute, millions of people using unlicensed copies would say "Oh shit" and grab a Linux CD insteadApr 14 08:33
DaemonFCthat's not what they want to doApr 14 08:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: they tried in ChinaApr 14 08:33
schestowitzAlthough about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but peopleApr 14 08:34
schestowitzdon't pay for the software, [...] Someday they will, though. As long as theyApr 14 08:34
schestowitzare going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort ofApr 14 08:34
schestowitzaddicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in theApr 14 08:34
schestowitznext decade."Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz€  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  €  --Bill GatesApr 14 08:34
schestowitzMicrosoft blacks out pirated desktops; Chinese bloggers fumeApr 14 08:34
schestowitzhttp://government.zdnet.com/?p=4135Apr 14 08:34
schestowitzChinese surfers see red over Microsoft black-outsApr 14 08:34
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/te...Apr 14 08:34
schestowitzChinese Hackers Angered By Microsoft's Epic FailApr 14 08:34
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/w...Apr 14 08:34
schestowitzChinese blast Microsoft over 'black screen' piracy noticeApr 14 08:34
schestowitzhttp://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/...Apr 14 08:34
schestowitzMicrosoft faces boycott in China over 'virus' which shames pirated softwareApr 14 08:34
schestowitzusersApr 14 08:34


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