Bonum Certa Men Certa

Frans Pop suicide and Ubuntu grievances

posted by Roy Schestowitz on Apr 30, 2024,
updated Apr 30, 2024

[Article 2 years old]

Reprinted with permission from disguised.work.

Looking through the Debian email archives, we quickly find a long list of messages from Frans Pop expressing grievances with Ubuntu, Canonical and Mark Shuttleworth.

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:12:58 +0200

On Wednesday 29 July 2009, Meike Reichle wrote: > The Debian project has decided to adopt a new policy of time-based > development freezes for future releases, on a two-year cycle.
Disappointing to see such an announcement without any prior discussion on d-project, d-devel or d-vote. Some explanation of how and by who this decision was reached would be appreciated.
So from now on we release "when it's time" instead of "when it's ready"? RC bugs are no longer relevant?
Cheers, FJP

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:28:43 +0200

On Thursday 30 July 2009, Marc Haber wrote: > I don't think that we shouldn't time our releases according to what > Mark Shuttleworth says. We are not Ubuntu's slave even if they try > hard to make it look like that. > > Our 18-to-24-month release cycle was a nice vehicle to stay > asynchronous with Ubuntu, which _I_ consider a desireable feature to > prevent Debian from perishing. We are not only major supplier to > Ubuntu, we have our end customers ourselves. I'd prefer that it stayed > that way.
+1

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:10:45 +0200

On Thursday 30 July 2009, Teemu Likonen wrote: > Debian > ======
- The completely voluntary nature of the project does not really lend itself to hard timelines. If it turns out on the planned date of the freeze that there are still major issues open, we need to be flexible enough to delay the freeze.
Both the Etch and Lenny releases did clearly show this, and the success of both releases (Etch more than Lenny IMO) is largely thanks to flexible starts of the incremental freeze stages.
Given Debian's release history it is IMO wishful thinking to expect to be able to freeze on a set date. There is simply no way you can direct anybody to work on specific issues *now* because the freeze is coming.

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 08:42:54 +0200

On Friday 31 July 2009, Steve Langasek wrote: > I don't believe the kind of coarse synchronization that's been proposed > for the releases would make Debian<->Ubuntu crossgrades significantly > easier. Most of the local changes that Ubuntu has today would still > apply, and there are rebuilt binaries that share version numbers, > introducing all kinds of fun possibilities.
<paranoid> Right. So Ubuntu can put its paid developers to work to create a tested upgrade path from Debian to Ubuntu and Ubuntu can go off with its publicity budget and promote itself with that "feature".
How "fun". I see zero benefit for Debian there. </paranoid>

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Debian redesign
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:03:07 +0200

On Thursday 30 July 2009, Margarita Manterola wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Cyril Brulebois<kibi@debian.org> wrote: > > We discussed that quite extensively with Guido during last dinner, > > and I totally share his opinion. Sounds like a very well performed > > marketing campaign. Again: thanks, Agnieszka. > > One that will make a statement that women in Debian should always wear > deep cleavages, and men in Debian have sex with their laptops. > Nice...
IMHO you're seriously overreacting here. The posters as I see them do not "make the statements" that you read into them, that is entirely your interpretation of them. Not everything that is sensual is discriminatory.
Cheers, FJP

From debian-private (leaked) gossip network

Subject: Re: bag of retirements
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:23:46 +0000
From: Mark Shuttleworth <mark@ubuntu.com>
To: Debian Private <debian-private@lists.debian.org>

Gunnar Wolf wrote: > I recognize that seeing so many people part ways with Debian might be > somewhat demotivating to us all. However, for all practical purposes, > those who have retired have in fact stopped all their engagement to > Debian a long time ago - Years, usually. > We have a policy that most memberships in Ubuntu expire unless the user chooses to renew them. It means the list of participants isn't as impressive, but it's more real. Generally, we also have a fast-track re-enablement mechanism.
Mark

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Closed lists as maintainers
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:05:35 +0100

On Tuesday 29 December 2009, Ben Hutchings wrote: > I believe this configuration is unacceptable, but would like to check > that there is a consensus on this before pressing the matter with the > GRUB maintainers.
I agree, but it's hardly a new issue. For grub it's been this way for years and there've been complaints and discussions about it many, many times.
Cheers, FJP

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: debian-private declassification team (looking for one)
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 18:35:49 +0200

On Saturday 22 May 2010, martin f krafft wrote: > How about making archive chunks available e.g. at monthly periods > and telling people they have 2 months to voice objections before the > stuff is simply disclosed. Those people who don't want their stuff > disclosed are the ones that should be doing the work, no?
That won't work.
Various people have already indicated (either in individual posts, or with a blanket statement) that some or all of their posts should not be declassified.
It also does not allow for people who are no longer DDs: they would not be able to object to declassification.

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: debian-private declassification team (looking for one)
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:46:02 +0200

On Friday 25 June 2010, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > I'm not sure I understand against *what* exactly you're arguing; nor it > is clear to me whether you are proposing a different course of action > than the status quo. > > The vote is there and we cannot change the past [...]
I would welcome a new GR to rescind the previous one and revert d-private to what it's always been: private. That way we can stop worrying about the whole issue and we will no longer run the risk of making things public that their authors do not want to be made public.
Cheers, FJP

Original link

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Problems with NM Front Desk
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:56:59 +0200

On Tuesday 06 July 2010, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > I can't speak for the NM team, but if he was asked to go through DM > first (and that's what I understood), I could understand that his NM > application got removed for now.
This is the thing I'm having some problem with in the discussion so far.
Is it actually OK for FD to "demand" that candidates go through DM before applying for DD, or as part of the NM process?
As I remember it, DM was primarily intended as an alternative *end point* for those contributors who are not interested in going through the full NM procedure and are happy with both the facilities and limitations that DM offers. From his mails Manuel clearly intended to go for DD.
Sure, in a lot of cases getting DM first can help to be more productive sooner. But shouldn't that remain the choice of the candidate him/herself?
I can see loads of cases where going straight for DD is much more logical: - contributors who's primairy interest is not packaging - contributors who already have a very solid history of contributions - contributors who work mainly on team-maintained packages and thus only need commit access to the team source repos while leaving the uploads to other team members - contributors who have a good relationship with the current maintainer of a package or sponsors and thus see no need for upload rights
In Manuel's case I personally would say that getting DM status on the route to DD *does* seem to make sense, but still IMO that should be *his* option. In past discussions we have explicitly stressed that it should be possible to tailor the NM process to the ambitions and background of individual candidates, in discussion between the candidate and FD and/or assigned AM.
Have the FD and NM-team (silently?) inflated DM beyond what was originally intended? I would personally be against listing DM on the website as a required or even desired stage to go through for NM, as some have suggested; it should of course be listed as an option.
I agree with others that the main problem in this particular case seems to have been a communications failure. But IMO refusing or declining to go through DM should by itself never be a reason to reject a candidate. I don't think it was in this case; the escalated communication has probably contributed. However, the FD and DAM have a very strong responsibility when it comes to trying to avoid such failures given that new candidates probably will not be familiar with all options and terminology.
Cheers, FJP

From debian-private (leaked) gossip network

Subject: Resignation
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:41:18 +0200
From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org

It's time to say goodbye. I don't want to say too much about it, except that I've been planning this for a long time.
Participating in Debian has been great.
For personal reasons I will be revoking my GPG key. However, it is not compromised and the validity of this mail can still be verified using my public key from current keyring packages.
My resignation means that the following three packages will need a new maintainer: - debtree - debmirror - qcontrol (tbm?)
It also means the following tasks will need a successor: - editor and release manager for the Installation Guide - daily D-I builds for s390 - Dutch translator for website and various debconf/program translations
All mails I ever sent to d-private (and mails quoting them) shall remain private.
So long, FJP

From debian-private (leaked) gossip network

Subject: Death of Frans Pop
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:47:34 +0100
From: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org

Hi all,
I have bad news to share with people, I'm afraid. This morning, I've just received an email from the parents of Frans Pop telling me that he died yesterday.
"Yesterday morning our son Frans Pop has died. He took his own life, in a well-considered, courageous, and considerate manner. During the last years his main concern was his work for Debian. I would like to ask you to inform those members of the Debian community who knew him well."
I promised them that I would pass on the news, so here it is. Frans worked hard in Debian for a number of years, and I know that all of those people who worked with him will feel a great loss today. We've lost a good colleague and good friend. I, for one, will miss him greatly.
-- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com You raise the blade, you make the change... You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane...

From debian-private (leaked) gossip network

Subject: Re: Death of Frans Pop
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:39:21 +0100
From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:52:33PM +0200, Ludovic Brenta wrote: > Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> writes: > > "Yesterday morning our son Frans Pop has died. He took his own life, > > in a well-considered, courageous, and considerate manner. During the > > last years his main concern was his work for Debian. I would like to > > ask you to inform those members of the Debian community who knew him > > well." > > Does that imply he took his own life *because* of Debian, which was "his > main concern"?
This is probably the wrong thread for linguistics, but that phrase would normally just indicate that Debian was his main interest. In http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0169810 under "noun", this would be sense 2 rather than sense 1.
-- Colin Watson [cjwatson@debian.org]

Other Recent Techrights' Posts

Professor Eben Moglen Recovering From Open Heart Surgery
From his public pages (this is not secret)
There Are Red Hat (IBM) Layoffs, But Google News is Infested With Slopfarms
It contributes a lot to misinformation and it encourages plagiarism
USA Not a Place for Free Speech
In America, as in the US, the attacks seem more enhanced or advanced these days
"Use Wayland" Isn't a Bugfix for X (X11 is Still Necessary)
They tell us X is "dead" and we must all be herded into Wayland ASAP
 
Slop Nihilism is Funded by Big Oil
Eventually human civilisation will destroy itself
Just What LibreOffice Needs? Another Language? (Rust)
what's all this concern about memory safety?
Many Microsoft Managers Are Leaving
"Hey hi" chaff or chaff about "hey hi" cannot eternally distract from the difficulties inside the company
Tomorrow, Microsoft's Tim Anderson's 'The Register MS' Offshoot Will Have Been Inactive for 2 Months (There's Also a Slop Problem)
We've already caught The Register MS using LLM slop for articles
Microsoft's Chief Legal Officer Leaves Microsoft After Nearly 30 Years
And not retiring
Even Windows Users Are Having Problems With "Secure Boot"
When it comes to security - Microsoft strives for the very opposite
Another Competition Crime of Microsoft, Long Facilitated and Advocated by a Bad Actor, Who is Funded by a Third Party to Commit Extortion Against People Who Have Correctly and Repeatedly Warned About It for Over 13 Year
We must always go back to the core issues
3 More Reasons to Replace Mozilla Firefox With LibreWolf
Thankfully there are de-enshittified versions of Firefox
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, September 16, 2025
IRC logs for Tuesday, September 16, 2025
Links 17/09/2025: Google Layoffs in "Hey Hi" (AI), Perplexity Hit With More "Hey Hi" (Plagiarism) Lawsuits
Links for the day
Gemini Links 17/09/2025: Reclaiming Things in a Digital Age and Moon Phases in CGI
Links for the day
Slopwatch: Google News is Slop, Google News is Plagiarism, Google News is Dying
Google is off the rails
Links 16/09/2025: "The Censorship Alarm Is Ringing in the Wrong Direction" and ASRock Does Microsoft E.E.E. on GNU/Linux
Links for the day
Serious "Breach of Confidentiality of Personal Data" in Europe's Second-Largest Institution, the EPO
Yes, the same EPO that routinely uses "data protection" and "GDPR" as a pretext for hiding or covering up its corruption and white-collar crimes (it even uses that as an excuse for refusing to obey courts' orders)
Adrienne Rockenhaus Says Her Husband Was Arrested for Running Tor and Denied Basic Rights in the United States
the US seems to be getting "russified" in its approach towards Tor
This is What Happens When Microsoft Canonical Lets Decisions on Ubuntu be Made by a Youngster From the British Army (Where He Did Mass Surveillance)
"Is Ubuntu Compromised?"
Back Doored Windows Giving GNU/Linux a Hard Time (Under the Guise of 'Security')
Is this complication intentional? Most likely, yes
Links 16/09/2025: Science, Security, and Conflicts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 16/09/2025: Command-line Options in POSIX Shell and Introducing Acre 0.9
Links for the day
Microsoft 'Secure' Boot Versus Dual Boot With GNU/Linux
they're meant to assume everything is OK
Links 16/09/2025: While Oracle Pretends to be Rich It's Firing About 70 MySQL Workers, "Oracle's Revenge" (Faking Demand With "AI")
Links for the day
Microsoft Has Just Published a New Web Page About "Secure Boot Update Process" (Microsoft Also Admits Issues; PCs Can Stop Booting)
Why was this page issued and published only hours ago?
Microsoft Lunduke: I Spread Hate and Then I Receive Hate
Cry us a river, Microsoft Lunduke
"Disable Secure Boot and Fast Boot. Wipe and Start Over."
At least they didn't say, buy a new computer...
The Oracle Ponzi Scheme
Oracle isn't doing well, but it's nowadays fashionable to say "clown" and "hey hi" to prop up one's stock, even based on nothing at all
The New Head of OSI is an "Hey Hi" (AI) Obsessed Person
when Bryant says "AI" that doesn't mean AI
Taking Out the Battery, Opening Up Your Computer, Just Like a "Normie" Would
At this stage, any person who still says "enable Secure Boot" is misguided or persuaded by companies that sell rootkits
Slopwatch: Serial Sloppers and Slopfarms Still Infesting Google News (Fake 'Articles' About "Linux" Spreading FUD)
searching for "Linux" today yields a lot of FUD
"Governments, local authorities, schools and hospitals can lead by example by procuring only Free Software"
Crossposted from Tux Machines
Cindy Cohn Leaving the Electronic Frontier Foundation While Its Co-founder John Gilmore, Whom She Apparently Helped Oust, Will Celebrate 40 Years of the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
EFF has been busy hoarding GAFAM money, whereas the latter is where all the real activism is done
The Reach of Techrights Has Broadened
We nowadays cover a broader range of issues
"Google is Googlebombing KDE's Project Banana"
So is Google googlebombing KDE's Project Banana? You decide.
Complicating Things for No Actual Benefit, Just Added Risk and More Difficulties Adding GNU/Linux and BSDs
Watch what it's like for people who wish to use BSDs
Some Very Large IRC Networks Are Growing
IRC will turn 38 next year
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, September 15, 2025
IRC logs for Monday, September 15, 2025
Links 16/09/2025: Autumn Party, RPG Planet, and Optical ROOPHLOCH
Links for the day
Geminispace Growing at Pace of Over 10% Per Year
Contrary to what some pessimists try to claim
Linux Mint Forums Today: Disable 'Secure Boot', It Doesn't Improve Security, It's Just a Microsoft Obstacle to GNU/Linux Users
They also mention MOK
What Ruben Amorim and Stefano Maffulli Have in Common
Censors Wikipedia and Social Control Media
Microsoft Won't Cooperate in Trying to Tackle EPO Corruption (Microsoft Profits From This Corruption)
Use something like BigBlueButton, Jami, Ring, and Jitsi instead
Solved Less Than an Hour Ago: Trying to Escape Windows, 'Secure Boot' Gets in the Way
'Secure Boot' wasn't meant to even exist in the first place
Stefano Maffulli, Executive Director of the Open Source Initiative, Resigns or Gets Removed (We'll Continue Covering OSI Scandals)
A dozen mentions of "AI", not much about "Open Source"
Andy Has Just Nailed It (Regarding Complexity and Failure, a la UEFI)
The users no longer own or control what they buy
Compatibility Support Module (CSM) Versus GNU/Linux Simplicity
what Andy recently called "solutionism"
Links 15/09/2025: "Postal Traffic to US Down by Over 80%" and 'Smart' Spinozacampus Laundry Room Goes AWOL
Links for the day
Gemini Links 15/09/2025: Dungeon Hustle and Deleting Oneself From the Net
Links for the day
Breach of EPO's Duty of Care or Cigna Reimbursement Issues
This is the sort of thing that motivated Luigi Mangione to assassinate a CEO
Ask Ubuntu About "Secure Boot" Violation and Laptops That Don't Boot GNU/Linux
Does anyone still believe that "Secure Boot" has anything at all to do with security?
We Are Sad to Hear the Story of Jonathan Riddell, Champion of KDE and GNU/Linux on Desktops/Laptops
I have enormous respect for Jonathan and everything he has done
Talking About the Problem vs Talking to the Problem
Wanting an audience is never a good excuse for compromising one's values and principles
Focusing on Patents
The reason we cover the EPO so much is that it's close to home
"Secure Boot Violation": The 'Joys' of Fake Security Gone Wrong
Not everyone reboots every day
Links 15/09/2025: Russia Invades Romanian Airspace, Penske Media Sues Google Over LLM Slop
Links for the day
Links 15/09/2025: Bitcoin ATMs Scam and "Conservative Cryptography" (Backdoors Fantasies)
Links for the day
EPO Imitates Microsoft: "Three Days or More Per Week" Inside the Office to Get a Desk to Work on; "the Office Breaches Its Promise Towards Staff and Acts in Breach of Its Duty of Care"
The EPO serves no actual function in Europe
Links 15/09/2025: Political Affairs, Censorship, and Copyrights
Links for the day
Gemini Links 15/09/2025: Music Genres, Invisible Networks, and Akademy 2025
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, September 14, 2025
IRC logs for Sunday, September 14, 2025