Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 27th, 2008

*RogerBacon has quit (Client Quit)Jun 27 03:00
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 27 03:00
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 03:27
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 27 04:41
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 04:50
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 07:08
schestowitzMicrosoft plays politics in Portugal again. I'll write about it later: 27 07:16
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 07:28
*dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 27 07:55
*tessier_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 27 08:37
*tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 08:37
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 27 10:34
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 27 12:42
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 12:49
kentmahi chapsJun 27 12:50
schestowitzAfternoon, kentma.Jun 27 12:51
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 12:51
schestowitzwb, lis`.Jun 27 12:51
schestowitzkentma, there's this really annoying stuff from Asay again.Jun 27 12:51
schestowitzI've just commented on it and mailed him and his pals.Jun 27 12:51
lis`ty & helloJun 27 12:51
schestowitzThe gist of it: he drinks and spilled the Kool-Aid.Jun 27 12:52
kentmaschestowitz: in cola?Jun 27 12:52
schestowitzNo, in his blog (CNET). It's like global warning deniers...Jun 27 12:53
schestowitzHe is fighting Linux with FUD. The Market Share Lie.Jun 27 12:53
schestowitzFrom the 'conservative' Microsoft-funded analysts themselves: "Gartner estimates that the market share for desktop Linux is about 2% in the Asia-Pacific region, 4.5% in Eastern Europe, and 4% in the Middle East and Africa. By contrast, Linux holds 1.2% of the desktop market in the U.S."Jun 27 12:54
kentmaahhh, okay.   Ah, it's  a good weak spot, because there are no real stats on tthis, in fact, there never are any real stats...Jun 27 12:54
schestowitzRefrain from believing Web 'surveys' already, I've told him. An article about here touches the main points: http://itmanagement.earthweb....Jun 27 12:54
schestowitzCase of point, from yesterday: ( AVG disguises fake traffic as IE6)Jun 27 12:54
kentmaquite!  good example.Jun 27 12:54
schestowitzThat's not even counting the 320 million zombies and other issues like sampling a biased population that care nada about privacy.Jun 27 12:55
kentmaI'm looking at the debate on binary kernel drivers atm.Jun 27 12:56
schestowitzYou know what led to this?Jun 27 12:56
kentmaUmm?Jun 27 12:56
schestowitzSiemens Business Systems on the future of the Linux desktop: 20 percent market share by 2008.  "We didn't see Linux on the desktop as a major market, but we were wrong."Jun 27 12:56
schestowitzProbably very well exaggerated, but it depends on definition of 'computer'Jun 27 12:57
schestowitzAnd Siemens are of course big Microsoft partners and lobbyists for swpatents in Europe. #1 lobbyist inn fact, based on FFII.Jun 27 12:57
kentmaSounds far more realistic.  The number of large changeovers would suggest that there is a huge number of linux machines out there, the problem is the 3-technology issue I keep driving at.  Linux is happily consolidating the old stuff onto laptops, but it's *also* grabbing the new stuff on mobility & appliances.#Jun 27 12:57
schestowitzAnyway, I didn't link directly to Asay because he's a Mac user living in a cloud. But he's of course cursing and making fun. He gets punished by comments.Jun 27 12:58
kentmamaybe he gets paid for this, though?Jun 27 12:59
kentmahits, I mean.Jun 27 13:00
schestowitzYes, he's at CNET, but that's not why he's doing it.Jun 27 13:00
schestowitzHe has slammed linux desktops for a while and he tries to convince himself that his choice (of Macs) is the right thing. He's also friends with Microsoft people, which makes it always a little weird...Jun 27 13:01
kentmaThis probably reflects his revenue lines.  Macs are quite nice, and for many people, would make a suitable replacement for a legacy Windows destkop, but it remains desirable to get onto open-formats using foss components, so in the end, the Mac will probably lose out because it will have nothing to offer over a foss mobile device or appliance.  Even so, it'll be a few years before that process is completed.Jun 27 13:03
schestowitzWell, Apple ignored Linux. It's the most affective thing for them to do. Takeaway point (related to the above): Microsoft is brainwashing a lot of people, even in the OSS world (directly or indirectly). De Icaza is merely the extremity of it.Jun 27 13:03
schestowitzBTW, for a laugh, see what I just found: "Fiji's military government has written to the software giant Microsoft demanding the company not use their country name in any of its products."Jun 27 13:04
kentmaHaha!  :-)Jun 27 13:04
schestowitzNobody wants to be associated with a Vista sibling.Jun 27 13:04
kentmaoops got a popup advert from that oneJun 27 13:05
schestowitzFiji, like Home Corruption Server and WS08 (worse downtime than WS03) are both Vista remade. Fiji too.Jun 27 13:05
schestowitzAfter Fiji (media centre), nobody would ever board a plan to Fiji . "It might crash," they'll say.Jun 27 13:05
kentmathat is hysterical.  I've just circulated it on an internal foss list.Jun 27 13:09
kentmaanother foss list.Jun 27 13:10
schestowitzReply from Asay (by E-mail, which I think is a bit rude): "Oh, geez.  give me a break, Roy!  4.5% in Eastern Europe, if true...who cares?  No one is going to stop using Linux tomorrow because of anything I put on that blog, and you know that nothing I said was intended to dissuade Linux adoption.  You need to relax a bit on this. "Jun 27 13:12
schestowitzHe never gave a s* about Linux. He's all about "open source" as a development method. He doesn't care (or understand) much about Freedom, which is why he disrespects Stallman too.Jun 27 13:13
kentmaIf he really believed that his blog was worthless, then he wouldn't do it at all.  As this is clearly untrue, the rest of the response can be taken with a pinch of salt, I suspect.Jun 27 13:13
kentmaHe's just interested in his revenue, which I guess is from Apple, MS and hits from Cnet.Jun 27 13:13
schestowitzWell, he's at Alfresco where almost everyone seems to be using Macs.Jun 27 13:14
schestowitzThey are what one BN reader recently called (coined): OSHJun 27 13:14
kentmagosh, osh?Jun 27 13:15
schestowitzOpen Source Hypocrite, like Google.Jun 27 13:15
kentmaaha okayJun 27 13:15
kentma:-)Jun 27 13:15
schestowitzHe's right.Jun 27 13:15
schestowitzThey luuuuuve open source.Jun 27 13:15
schestowitzThey love using it, they use it for marketing, but what they sell is a development method, not freedom.Jun 27 13:15
schestowitzIt's a pleasure for Microsoft when people do this.Jun 27 13:15
kentmaI think some people really are just in everything for their own, immediate, gain.  I've never been that kind of person, I'm more sort of vocational and interested in the greater good, so I find such people a little hard to understand.Jun 27 13:16
schestowitzIt's upbringing perhaps. Some of them are actually in it because the altruism elevates; to some it's just a nice wave to ride on.Jun 27 13:19
schestowitzThere's freeloading (using FOSS and giving none in return) and there's wave-riding where you see hype in 'open source' and the  abuse/explain the brand (open source fakers).Jun 27 13:19
kentmaThere are some people who specialise in riding particular waves.  Malcolm Gladwell's tipping point book investigates this in some detail.Jun 27 13:24
schestowitzTrend spotting? Some people do this in SEO, but that's another issue. I see a lot of people who abuse the term "open source" by putting it in headline of unrelated articles.Jun 27 13:27
kentmaNot just that, but he also investigates others, some who are "social glue", some who are "trend setters", and so on.  It's an interesting book, doesn't take long to read.  Your library can probably get you a copy.Jun 27 13:28
kentmaBut I agree, some of those people are merely getting whatever they can from the bandwagon.Jun 27 13:28
schestowitzMicrosoft and Noell too.Jun 27 13:29
*lis` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 27 13:32
schestowitzkentma, maybe you could assist with a comment? (this has been viewed probably by thousands by now and BBC apologists appear out of nowhere).Jun 27 13:38
schestowitzEruaran, see this when you get the time: 27 13:42
kentmaokay, will take a lookJun 27 13:43
schestowitzEruaran, more here and here 27 13:48
schestowitztessier, see your hero: 27 14:06
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 14:11
schestowitzCNN FUD spotted (CNN Money, no less, which typically does the Microsoft boosting): (“You get what you pay for. That axiom will always hold true.”)Jun 27 14:21
*lis` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 27 14:25
kentmaschestowitz: okay, I've put  a rant onJun 27 14:28
schestowitzThanks for that. Very witty, concise, and compelling. It's actually [H]omer  who put up the video, but having linked to it, it gets a lot more exposure for the time being.Jun 27 14:30
kentmaIt's good to see it up there, and good to see that the interest in the whole issue remains strong.Jun 27 14:44
kentmaI did my writing very quickly, as I was about to go onto an audio call, so didn't get chance to review it.  I'd've re-written a few bits, but it gets the idea across very well, I think.  It's amazing that there are still people out there trying to spin this, even after someone quit their job over it.Jun 27 14:45
schestowitzI can see the IPs and E-mails in the back end, but it spears now to be BBC employees, some of whom did comment in the site before. It's a shame that people no longer protest; that means that the crooks get their way. That's what they hope for anyway; that time will heal the wound (money is already in the bank). Same with OOXML.Jun 27 14:47
schestowitzI can't help but think about post WW2 stories when I see Microsoft and ISO talk about OOXML.Jun 27 14:48
schestowitzSpotted just a while ago: "Irrespective of the outcome of the current appeals, we are confident that the robustness of the system will again lead to the answer the market place wishes to see and, in fact, reinforce ISO's credibility," he said. (Alan Bryden)Jun 27 14:49
kentmaWhat on earth does that mean?  It's hard to see how marketplace pressure relates to the standardisation process, and I'm amazed that Mr Bryden would even suggest that he responds to market pressure rather than to procedure.Jun 27 14:52
schestowitzThey are whitewashing, and worry not as I'll blast them later; I've probably been the most vocal critic of ISO and someone event added to the references in Wikipedia's article about ISO. There's old ISO and new ISO -- the new one being the one from which the core people fled (after Microsoft's first attacks in 2007)Jun 27 14:53
kentmaI hope the UKUUG continue their legal action against BSI, too.  Everything which keeps the pressure on is good, here.Jun 27 14:58
schestowitzThey'll try to rewrite history at the end, regardless. I also see this everywhere else. See some more Microsoft ass-wiping in the British press (found minutes ago): 27 14:59
schestowitzAs long as Microsoft owns the media (and is unethical enough to bribe/'compensate'), they own perception.Jun 27 15:00
kentmaTheir influence is waning, though.  I think we're seeing their swansong in this area.Jun 27 15:02
kentmasolrry - hearing :-)Jun 27 15:02
schestowitzGoogle becomes eerily similar over time (darling of the media), but what's concerning is that media still admires the mighty buck more than it cherishes Truth (truth doesn't sell papers these days, nor does it pay a bob... under the table).Jun 27 15:03
schestowitzWe had a discussion here the other day about PC magazines and how the reviewed are 'bought', including those of Vista. It's a filthy industry where hardware reviews are involved too.Jun 27 15:04
kentmaPolitics has kind of de-radicalised since the 1960s and 1970s.  People just don't give a t*ss about these things, in general.Jun 27 15:04
kentmaOh, the "buying" of reviewers has been rife in magazines for years.  If you look back in cola archives, you'll see where I describe the offer to "buy" a good review from a music instrument magazine when I was working for a company developing and electronic piano.Jun 27 15:05
schestowitzThere's hope that media will be further decentralised... as it is now. Then there are AstroTurfers to worry about.Jun 27 15:05
schestowitzkentma,  watch this: (skip to minute 43). It's true then that Linus just doesn't like the GPL _in general_. It's not just GPLv3.Jun 27 15:29
kentmaPerhaps, in due  course, there will be an alternative to the Linux kernel which might get around this, but presently, I'm afraid that we're stuck with it.Jun 27 16:33
schestowitzI've heard for people who hope for a replacement (I'm not one of them) and the guy whose blog pointed me at this video is still hoping for Hurd.Jun 27 16:34
kentmaThe Hurd will, perhaps one day, deliver, but I think it's too complex, and also running in the face of massive support for the Linux kernel.  Perhaps a new generation of coders might take the Hurd forward, but I don't think it'll be significant in my career.Jun 27 16:35
schestowitzLinus spoke about "world domination" some time ago. The danger is that by 'winning' under these terms, what is truly won? A cheap Mac OS X? Or freedom which ought to triumph? Trust me, I didn't sacrifice my life just to make Linus and Miguel the next Woz and Jobs.Jun 27 16:36
*RogerBacon ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 17:31
RogerBaconI THERE, WAZZUP ?Jun 27 17:31
schestowitzNOVLJun 27 17:33
schestowitzJust slightly though because of some 'analyst'.Jun 27 17:34
RogerBacondoes linux have any good DAWJun 27 17:34
RogerBacon?Jun 27 17:34
RogerBaconi only know ardourJun 27 17:34
schestowitzCheck out the blog of Studio Dave in Linux  Journal. He covers loads.Jun 27 17:36
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 18:53
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 27 19:13
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 19:17
*RogerBacon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 27 19:47
schestowitz*LOL* Doug just sent me this: BBC on billg and Windows security : Oh, the irony, have to disable noscript in order to hear the supreme architects words of wisdom : : 27 19:49
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 20:00
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 27 20:37
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 21:49
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 27 22:42
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 22:42
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 27 22:42
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 22:43
PetoKrausHA! I told you it was a Wine bug... with wine 1.1.0, the ATI opengl display problem is fixed...Jun 27 22:44
schestowitzWine is always feature incomplete. ;-)Jun 27 22:45
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 27 22:47
PetoKrausyes, Guild Wars still doesn't work with FGLRXJun 27 22:48
schestowitzHave you seen Michael's latest (and huge) review?Jun 27 22:50
PetoKrausnoJun 27 22:51
PetoKrauswine-related?Jun 27 22:51
schestowitzNo, ATI (MAD).Jun 27 22:52
schestowitz*AMDJun 27 22:52
PetoKrausthe 8-page long one?Jun 27 22:54
schestowitzYes. I haven't read it all, but I'll link to it in a few moments.Jun 27 22:55
*schestowitz off to bed nowJun 27 23:03
PetoKrausgn here as wellJun 27 23:04
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 27 23:21
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 27 23:47

Recent Techrights' Posts

[Meme] Clergy of GNU/Linux (Corporations Like IBM)
Volunteers as powerless "followers" of companies that "harvest" their labour
Taking a Break From Paid Promotion of the Illegal, Unconstitutional Kangaroo Court for Patents (UPC)
JUVE returns to its 'roots'?
FSFE admits losing funds from bequest by insulting and ignoring Fellowship representative
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Raspberry Pi Incus Cluster and Aya 0.5.0 Coming Soon
Links for the day
Links 29/02/2024: Layoffs at Apple, Expedia, and Electronic Arts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Web Enshittification and Firefox user-agents
Links for the day
Spiked Piece/Censoreed Piece: 'Microsoft Copilot is a gimmick', says top CIO
Issues relate to connectivity and cost
Enrico Zini, Mattia Rizzolo, Plagiarism & Debian
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
There Will Be Lots More Apple Layoffs (Already Years in the Making)
The corporate media still tries to shape the narrative to prevent panic or delay market hysteria
Latest SUEPO (Staff Union of EPO) Report For The Hague Reveals EPO Does Not Obey Court Orders, Refuses to Allow Workers to Freely Talk to One Another
working in a place where communication itself is restricted
[Meme] The Oppression Will Continue Until EPO 'Quality' Improves
wonder why EPO morale is so low?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, February 28, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, February 28, 2024
Outreachy, GSoC-mentors & Debian-Private may soon become public records in federal court
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 28/02/2024: Many War Updates and Censorship
Links for the day
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Social Control Media Notifications and Gemini Protocol Extended
Links for the day
Links 28/02/2024: Microsoft the Plagiarist is Projecting, Food Sector Adopts Surge Pricing
Links for the day
Helping Microsoft 'Hijack' Developers (to Make Them Work for Microsoft, Not the Competition)
VS Code is proprietary spyware of Microsoft. Jack Wallen keeps promoting its use.
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Groupthink and the 'Problem' With Linux
Links for the day
Android Rising (Windows Down to All-Time Lows, Internationally)
This month was a bloodbath for Microsoft
HexChat Looks for Successors to Keep IRC Growing
IRC is far from dead
[Meme] Just Make Him Happy
Y U no produce more monopolies?
End of a Long February
top 10 posts
[Meme] The EPO's Relationship With Patent Examiners
Nobody is "safe"
New Pension Scheme (NPS) at the European Patent Office Explained at the General Assembly
Investing in the future, or...
Donald Trump & FSFE Matthias Kirschner election denial
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, February 27, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, February 27, 2024