| zuza | it is licensing YaST before it was GPLed, and SQL Anywhere which used to be soled with SUSE 9 something Professional (boxed) | Feb 28 00:00 |
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| zuza | s/soled/selled | Feb 28 00:01 |
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| zuza | geeee | Feb 28 00:01 |
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| zuza | sold | Feb 28 00:01 |
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| schestowitz | Stupid study for the day: Study: Hackers still enjoy vandalizing Web sites < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/article/278142/stu... >. It should really say "Crackers", too | Feb 28 00:02 |
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| zuza | Is it "legal" to sell gpl software with eula one? | Feb 28 00:02 |
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| schestowitz | Study: pilots still enjoy flying. | Feb 28 00:02 |
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| schestowitz | zuza: not as-is | Feb 28 00:02 |
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| zuza | If it is, what makes it possible. | Feb 28 00:02 |
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| schestowitz | You could use it and sell the whole package with the GPL parts compliant. | Feb 28 00:03 |
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| schestowitz | Like TomTom.. | Feb 28 00:03 |
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| *zuza not sure if he understands "as is" | Feb 28 00:03 |
| schestowitz | zuza: YaST was there in SuSE | Feb 28 00:03 |
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| zuza | yes, there was | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | Even 8.1 had it.. did they have 'editions'? | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure. | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | How the boxed/d/l differed | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | We had installed on many machines from the same box | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | 8.1 | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| zuza | It was like this: no EULA to download, with EULA stuff (YaST) in boxes | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | Then 9.2 | Feb 28 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | zuza: I don't know well enough, I guess | Feb 28 00:05 |
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| schestowitz | I still have some OpenSUSE CDs here... DVDs actually.. | Feb 28 00:05 |
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| *zuza has a couple of boxes ;-) | Feb 28 00:05 |
| zuza | anyway, it is not the history important, but that mixing it and selling it as a whole product | Feb 28 00:06 |
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| schestowitz | The CDs are not for ritual purposes though, unlike with SCO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Feb 28 00:08 |
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| zuza | (I think what you call "editions" occured with 9.x only, there was "Personal" - 1 CD GPL only, and "professional" books, gpl, non-gpl, etc.) | Feb 28 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | ic ... | Feb 28 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | post novl | Feb 28 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | see http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=542 | Feb 28 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | Is it just me or are many Novell pages loading up in Japanese? | Feb 28 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.novell.com << why am I getting the site in Japanese?? | Feb 28 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | Oddd... NOVL's site redirects me always to the Japanese versions :-o since about a week ago | Feb 28 00:16 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: are you using a japanese proxy or something? | Feb 28 00:16 |
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| schestowitz | No, I don;t. | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| Balrog | or are they messing with your IP? (don't see why they would be) | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| schestowitz | It has been like this for about a week | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| Balrog | well it works for me | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| Balrog | clear your cookies from novell.com | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's fine elsewhere: http://browsershots.org/http://www.... | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| Balrog | or better, clear all | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| Balrog | maybe it's a messed up region cookie | Feb 28 00:17 |
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| schestowitz | CLearing the cookie did it | Feb 28 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | But I don't know why it changed to begin with | Feb 28 00:19 |
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| Balrog | looks like the commenting on that article quieted down (I made it clear that I wasn't complaining about the software but about the attitudes of the group ... though the software may suck anyway) | Feb 28 00:19 |
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| Balrog | or some members of the group btw * | Feb 28 00:19 |
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| Balrog | did you see this? | Feb 28 00:20 |
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| Balrog | http://slashdot.org/article.p... | Feb 28 00:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/article... | Feb 28 00:20 |
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| Balrog | yeah | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Compyrights cartel is a disease | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| Balrog | though it's actually from slate | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| Balrog | (the slashdot one) | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | I read techDirt but haven't reached it yet (today) | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Slate is a MS site | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Sold to Melinda gatesism | Feb 28 00:21 |
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| zuza | Ok, thanks for chat. | Feb 28 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | FF3.1 delay: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.pla... | Feb 28 00:56 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm | Feb 28 01:04 |
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| PetoKraus | careful, non-kde-4 approach | Feb 28 01:04 |
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| PetoKraus | :D | Feb 28 01:04 |
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| PetoKraus | gn | Feb 28 01:05 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah, I know.. | Feb 28 01:06 |
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| schestowitz | This one's bound to piss off some people: Why [New] Linux Users Should Try Ubuntu First < http://codingexperiments.com/why-li... > | Feb 28 01:17 |
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| Balrog | umm what about linux mint, and the distros designed for new users? | Feb 28 01:18 |
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| schestowitz | Howto block DDOS attacks on Ubuntu < http://blogama.org/node/98 > | Feb 28 01:18 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: they get ignored | Feb 28 01:18 |
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| Balrog | and what about KDE4.2, which is much nicer than gnome .... | Feb 28 01:19 |
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| schestowitz | Canonical is also enforcing its "buntu" trademarks by asking projects to change their names | Feb 28 01:19 |
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| Balrog | I think I heard of that | Feb 28 01:19 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: I think I'll use Fedora 11 next | Feb 28 01:19 |
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| Balrog | much like Firefox vs. Iceweasel | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe BLAG | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| Balrog | Fedora 11 is not yet stable | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| Balrog | it's in alpha | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| schestowitz | New headline: How to Kill a Running Process in Ubuntu (or any Linux distro) http://www.yeree.com/nw/002/index.p... | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| Balrog | simple | Feb 28 01:20 |
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| schestowitz | This is wrong because they view it as "Ubuntu" (and "that other thing") | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| Balrog | killall <process-name> | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| schestowitz | in Ubuntu? | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| schestowitz | Or GNU? | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| Balrog | any linux | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| Balrog | or you can 'ps aux | grep <process-name>' and 'kill process-id' | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| Balrog | in solaris that's 'ps -ef' | Feb 28 01:21 |
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| schestowitz | Howto Play Music And Video In Fedora 10 < http://debaira.blogspot.com/2009/02/howto-... > | Feb 28 01:22 |
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| Balrog | that's more specific | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| schestowitz | Interestngly, Mandriva does not have ALT+CTRL+ESC | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| Balrog | few do | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| schestowitz | It's rarely needed for processes to be killed though | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| Balrog | many have ctrl-alt-F1 though | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| schestowitz | Vanilla KDE has it (e.g. in Ubuntu) | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| Balrog | I believe all linux, for that matter | Feb 28 01:23 |
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| Balrog | well you'd have to use Kubuntu for that | Feb 28 01:24 |
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| Balrog | (or install it yourself, as I did with fedora :/ ) | Feb 28 01:24 |
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| schestowitz | I don't understand these: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/27801... | Feb 28 01:24 |
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| schestowitz | Some stupid proprietary software is piggybacking Ubuntu hype | Feb 28 01:25 |
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| schestowitz | They make hype out of nothing.. because it /can/ run on Ubuntu (Windows also) | Feb 28 01:25 |
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| schestowitz | Wow! Major breaking news: http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/2009/02/26... | Feb 28 01:25 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: how do you feel about the closed-source nvidia drivers? | Feb 28 01:26 |
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| schestowitz | So many comments too | Feb 28 01:26 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: I use them now | Feb 28 01:26 |
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| schestowitz | They come with Mandriva | Feb 28 01:26 |
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| Balrog | but about them being closed source ....? | Feb 28 01:26 |
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| schestowitz | Mandriva also comes with Flash | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| schestowitz | Debian comes with the open substitutes | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | flash is so common :( | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| schestowitz | When I set up this machines dual-head OSS driver was only coming | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| schestowitz | gnash and swfdec (??) is also quite mature now. | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | The problem is, the open substitute for the nvidia driver has obfuscated code and really sucks | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | (nv( | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | (nv)* | Feb 28 01:27 |
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| Balrog | even on older hardware | Feb 28 01:28 |
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| schestowitz | Mandriva makes it too easy to leave it convenient | Feb 28 01:28 |
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| schestowitz | This is why it ain't so good... Mint likewise | Feb 28 01:28 |
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| schestowitz | If people chooses blobs, they ought to make some effort | Feb 28 01:28 |
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| schestowitz | And be taught about the free stuff. Better yet -- have it PREINSTALLED. | Feb 28 01:28 |
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| schestowitz | With Flash installed it feels like cheating. | Feb 28 01:29 |
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| schestowitz | People pushed me into installing Skype too after many years of refusing. | Feb 28 01:29 |
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| schestowitz | I tried to push them to Ekiga | Feb 28 01:30 |
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| Balrog | hm. Well at least nvidia's blobs work. unlike nv, which is partially free imo (obfuscated code) | Feb 28 01:30 |
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| schestowitz | But the Windows client is not mature (not for me, for them) | Feb 28 01:30 |
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| Balrog | skype works. the TOS is annoying, but it works | Feb 28 01:30 |
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| schestowitz | The FSF works on a 'high priority ' subs | Feb 28 01:32 |
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| Balrog | explain. | Feb 28 01:32 |
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| schestowitz | Issue is virility (other people use their own wares) | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| Balrog | I see... | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/... | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| benJIman | Ekiga just uses SIP. There are hundreds of clients for different platforms. | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| benJIman | I use a hardware SIP phone. | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/prior... : Free software replacement for Skype | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| Balrog | well Skype is well encrypted | Feb 28 01:33 |
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| benJIman | Balrog: Ahahahahaha | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| schestowitz | EU got off their bac | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| schestowitz | Back | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| Balrog | though yes, I heard about that | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| schestowitz | Moody reckons they found an eavesdropping method | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| Balrog | so we don't know how long it will be so | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| benJIman | Balrog: So you're going to trust a blob that you know nothing about to encrypt/decrypt your traffic, when you do know that it phones home to skype servers and has the capability to send them the decrypted data? | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| Balrog | I don't use it, myself | Feb 28 01:34 |
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| Balrog | I use Pidgin and Adium with OTR encrption (www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/) | Feb 28 01:35 |
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| Balrog | text only for me :) | Feb 28 01:35 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmmmm...... http://greentechgirl.com/open-sou... | Feb 28 01:39 |
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| schestowitz | She couldn't get Flash on Mint? it's already there, no? Tough luck... | Feb 28 01:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/conten... | Feb 28 04:51 |
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| mib_gr0w3s | oh | Feb 28 04:54 |
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| mib_gr0w3s | anybody here ? | Feb 28 04:55 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 28 04:56 |
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| schestowitz | What's' up? | Feb 28 04:56 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.zdnet.com/2424-95... (Sony reorganizes as president steps down) | Feb 28 05:07 |
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| schestowitz | Spam King Back in News Thanks to Facebook http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/02/27/s... | Feb 28 05:12 |
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| schestowitz | Cisco lays off 250 in first wave of cuts < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... > | Feb 28 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Wall Street Beat: Tech Forecasts Down Amid Market Tumult < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160333/wall_street_... > | Feb 28 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Is that Linux at the bottom photo? http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/2... | Feb 28 10:53 |
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| *amarsh04 clicks | Feb 28 11:01 |
| amarsh04 | not sure on that one | Feb 28 11:02 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.xfce.org/images/abou... I really suspect that laptop is running xfce. I cannot be 100 percent sure becuase I am not perfectly sure if the first icon on the bar is a black mouse. | Feb 28 11:15 |
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| oiaohm | xfce runs on linux bsd solaris basically anything running X11. So cannot say it Linux. | Feb 28 11:18 |
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| oiaohm | This is the problem with Linux people say show me a screen shot of lInux to be sure you have to have a distribution logo displayed. | Feb 28 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090226/1232003915.shtml Looks Like Australia's Plan To Censor The Internet Is Dead... Again... For Now | Feb 28 11:39 |
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| oiaohm | Most likely they will wait until 2 am and push it threw then schestowitz | Feb 28 12:18 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe. They have "come this far" | Feb 28 12:19 |
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| amarsh04 | abc news report on .au internet filtering is here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/200... | Feb 28 12:20 |
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| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/02... Let the cross breeding begin. | Feb 28 12:24 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Feb 28 13:35 |
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| seller_liarf | hey roy | Feb 28 13:36 |
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| seller_liarf | can you give some link about melinda gates foundation fraud? | Feb 28 13:36 |
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| seller_liarf | I'm posting in another site and a m$ guard is attacking | Feb 28 13:36 |
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| seller_liarf | someone? | Feb 28 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Feb 28 13:39 |
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| MinceR | for lack of a better idea, http://eu.ixquick.com/do/metasear... | Feb 28 13:39 |
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| schestowitz | Just Melinda? | Feb 28 13:39 |
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| *MinceR shrugs | Feb 28 13:39 |
| MinceR | it seemed enough :) | Feb 28 13:39 |
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| schestowitz | Never trust the French? | Feb 28 13:40 |
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| schestowitz | As in "Melinda French"? | Feb 28 13:40 |
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| seller_liarf | schestowitz: I need to know about bill african farmaco fraud | Feb 28 13:40 |
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| seller_liarf | schestowitz: and taxes evasion | Feb 28 13:40 |
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| seller_liarf | schestowitz: BN have links , but I don t remember where I find | Feb 28 13:41 |
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| seller_liarf | schestowitz: and posts too | Feb 28 13:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/31/bm... | Feb 28 13:41 |
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| seller_liarf | thanks mincer and roy | Feb 28 13:42 |
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| schestowitz | Some on tax evasion: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/02/... | Feb 28 13:42 |
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| MinceR | np | Feb 28 13:42 |
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| schestowitz | Africa scam: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/14/... | Feb 28 13:42 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/colu... | Feb 28 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | Nice, I saw that | Feb 28 14:10 |
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| oiaohm | Its true | Feb 28 14:10 |
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| amarsh04 | I like the bizarre cathedral... they should sell small Debian dogs | Feb 28 14:10 |
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| oiaohm | They do get kinda annoyed. | Feb 28 14:10 |
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| oiaohm | when you point out that the router is Linux particularly when they say they have no Linux. | Feb 28 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | They fear the unknown | Feb 28 14:11 |
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| oiaohm | Linux the OS that is everywhere an nowhere at exactly the same time. | Feb 28 14:12 |
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| oiaohm | an/and | Feb 28 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | Behind the public looting: Weekly Radio Spin: Obama's Lobbying Stimulus < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8244 > | Feb 28 14:26 |
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| schestowitz | I hope that Novell's executives will undo their mistakes (maybe split the company). They are too important to lose, especially the open source component that Novell gradually sheds off. I'm glad to see Mandriva employees being picked up by Red Hat and it would be sweet revenge if Red Hat scooped SUSE's people too. | Feb 28 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | Back in 2006, shortly after the deal had been signed and before BN was even conceived I politely protested and asked SUSE to reconsider (many of us did). One Red Hat engineer contacted me off list and we both agreed that Novell should have ganged up with Red Hat (against Windows), but Novell thinks like a proprietary software company. Jaffe and Hovsepian came from IBM. | Feb 28 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | They grew up with a patent portfolio in their hands and silver spoons (budgets) in their mouths. Jaffe came from a research background and he too laid the foundations for all this. Red Hat bargained based on Microsoft's interests, which exclude the use of a dusty UNIX/Netware portfolio. Novell was bamboozled and it set up a path for Microsoft to claim that its patents must be honoured (based on precedence). | Feb 28 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | I've discovered that Red Hat might employ SUSE developer who got sacked. | Feb 28 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | Because Novell was foolish enough to do this deal secretly, it was unable to foresee the ramifications. It could actually kill itself by firing SUSE employees, who will just WORK ON FEDORA or Ubuntu instead. | Feb 28 15:05 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | help | Feb 28 15:26 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | need a copy of xandros for eee901 | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | iso file | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | any help? | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | i have mis-placed mine | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Have you tried their site? | Feb 28 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | I think it's downloadable | Feb 28 15:28 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | help me | Feb 28 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | Better yet --- put another distro on it, one that's better | Feb 28 15:28 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | its for someone who has got use to xandros | Feb 28 15:28 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | never used other os | Feb 28 15:29 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | whats a distro? | Feb 28 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | It's one among many 'flavours' of Linux | Feb 28 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | There are other options that are similar | Feb 28 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | Use this one: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/mandiv... | Feb 28 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | That's the one I use on my PC. It should work well on Eee PCs too. | Feb 28 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | There is also this one: http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ | Feb 28 15:33 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | where is iso? for Mandreeeva? | Feb 28 15:35 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | i am sorry for being stuopid | Feb 28 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on. | Feb 28 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Here: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/mandriva_20... | Feb 28 15:37 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | seems complicated for me | Feb 28 15:40 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | just want a eee version of xandros | Feb 28 15:41 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | The classic version what Asus ship | Feb 28 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | Let me look | Feb 28 15:42 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | like i said its only for some who got use to the system | Feb 28 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | Do you do torrent? http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4366... | Feb 28 15:43 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | will this work for 901? | Feb 28 15:43 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | is there a direct link? | Feb 28 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | Hmm. http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmen... | Feb 28 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know. But if you can't find the CD, then you might want to use another distro or re-order the CD | Feb 28 15:45 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | are they all standard? | Feb 28 15:46 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | carry all drivers? | Feb 28 15:47 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | accross the full ee range? | Feb 28 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | I can't tell for sure. Have you googled for answers on that one? | Feb 28 15:48 |
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| mib_5bb8ul | can't find any os iso there | Feb 28 15:54 |
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| schestowitz | Let me see.. | Feb 28 15:55 |
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| schestowitz | http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/434... | Feb 28 15:56 |
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| schestowitz | This one is in French: http://www.onlytorrents.com/torrent/ee... | Feb 28 15:58 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | still can't find xandros for asus | Feb 28 16:07 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | thats easypc | Feb 28 16:07 |
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| schestowitz | Have you tried Ubuntu easy peasy | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | It's said to be better | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | Some people wipe Xandros to have it (it's a Ubuntu variant) | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | Should be simple to install too | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | i have intalled that but wifi is an issue | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | There are like 10 distributions for Eee PC | Feb 28 16:08 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | ? | Feb 28 16:09 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | it was my mistake in installing xp | Feb 28 16:10 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | cost me 80 pounds | Feb 28 16:10 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | but the system is very unstable | Feb 28 16:11 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | keeps coming with too many errors | Feb 28 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | Get a refund for XP | Feb 28 16:11 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | and have mis-placed dvd -xandros | Feb 28 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | If you can | Feb 28 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | I'm trying to find list of distros you can use | Feb 28 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | There are about 10 of them. | Feb 28 16:12 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | Microsoft is no good | Feb 28 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linux.com/feature/131070 | Feb 28 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:eeedora | Feb 28 16:13 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | spiffy operating | Feb 28 16:14 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | thats what i want | Feb 28 16:16 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | large icon based os | Feb 28 16:17 |
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| schestowitz | There's Linpus too | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Search YouTube for "Linpus Eee" | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Linpus runs by default on Acer netbooks | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | http://www.linux.com/feature/124240 | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | It's based on Fedora | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | where can i get this | Feb 28 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | http://isohunt.com/torrents.php... | Feb 28 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.nowtors.com/torrents/eee... | Feb 28 16:20 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | tried all of them | Feb 28 16:25 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | the rsults r same | Feb 28 16:25 |
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| mib_vj5ruo | easypc 1 | Feb 28 16:25 |
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| mib_8e53in | still can't find it | Feb 28 16:27 |
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| mib_8e53in | its downloding easypc1 | Feb 28 16:28 |
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| mib_8e53in | is that he Eee PC comes preloaded with a spiffy operating system based on Xandros Linux and running KDE | Feb 28 16:29 |
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| mib_8e53in | ? | Feb 28 16:29 |
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| mib_8e53in | need a copy of xandros | Feb 28 16:30 |
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| mib_8e53in | spiffy operating | Feb 28 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm.. | Feb 28 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | Do they not ship replacement CDs? | Feb 28 16:32 |
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| mib_8e53in | i have this product more than a year | Feb 28 16:39 |
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| mib_8e53in | may be i should buy one identical asus, copy it on my flsh drive and return it | Feb 28 16:41 |
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| mib_8e53in | then upload it on the internet | Feb 28 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | That would explain "high return rates" | Feb 28 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | I'ms sure you can just download it if you look long enough. | Feb 28 16:42 |
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| mib_8e53in | what can i do the system is dead as a duck or "duff" | Feb 28 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Or find someone who has the CD | Feb 28 16:42 |
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| mib_8e53in | internet is a wide zone and nothing simple is available | Feb 28 16:43 |
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| amarsh04 | there must be some user forums for the eee where someone could offer to help you through a recovery process for the machine | Feb 28 16:48 |
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| mib_8e53in | all i need is the iso file | Feb 28 16:50 |
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| mib_8e53in | wifi is the biggest issue | Feb 28 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | mib_8e53in: maybe someone who has an Eee can send it to you | Feb 28 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | He's gone | Feb 28 16:52 |
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| *schestowitz not sure about #BN becoming a tech support channel anyway | Feb 28 16:52 |
| amarsh04 | you gave more help than most would, schestowitz | Feb 28 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | I liked the part where he said he had paid 80 pounds (about 120 US dollars) for XP, which turned out to be rubbish. | Feb 28 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Feb 28 17:17 |
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| MrMidland | Tuna Face how are you? | Feb 28 19:01 |
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| MrMidland | You there Roy? | Feb 28 19:03 |
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| schestowitz | :-D This one looks like it is *obligatory* for the whole public sector touse only FOSS: http://www.jhs-suositukset.fi/suomi/jhs169 | Feb 28 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | Support a green recovery for Europe < http://cdn.avaaz.org/en/gr... > | Feb 28 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | Obama Justice Department Misses Opportunity for Transparency < http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/200... >. Publicity stunt: In the war: A residual U.S. force will remain in Iraq < http://www.newsday.com/news/nation... >. So occupation essentially continues. | Feb 28 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | Jeff Flake is right < http://www.lessig.org/blog/200... > "But of course, one simple solution to this "problem" with earmarks would be to remove the corrupting connection -- to campaign finance. And the simplest way to do that would be to follow Teddy Roosevelt's other fantastic idea from 100 years ago -- Citizen Funded Elections." | Feb 28 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | n | Feb 28 21:32 |
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| trmanco | http://gtk.php.net/ - wow, didn't know that this existed | Feb 28 21:50 |
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| schestowitz | me neither | Feb 28 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | oh wait. | Feb 28 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | I thought it red php.gtk.org :-) | Feb 28 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | *read | Feb 28 21:52 |
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| *schestowitz started using FF3 a week ago. It's a fantastic upgrade. | Feb 28 21:53 |
| trmanco | wow | Feb 28 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Did you install Vista? | Feb 28 21:54 |
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| trmanco | w00t? | Feb 28 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | What was wow @? | Feb 28 21:55 |
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| trmanco | the php gtk thingy | Feb 28 21:55 |
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| trmanco | it looked pretty easy | Feb 28 21:55 |
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| trmanco | at least more eye catching then C++ GTK binding | Feb 28 21:55 |
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| trmanco | bindings* | Feb 28 21:56 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, you should try FF 3.1, FF 3.0 is getting old | Feb 28 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: I thought about it. Will wait for "stable" | Feb 28 21:57 |
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| trmanco | me too | Feb 28 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | same with Thunderbird which also keeps data in tact. | Feb 28 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | I miss doing Comes docs (will do some later this year). It's safe to come come to the conclusion that corporations can only be pressured for their mistakes if we identify people -- not brand names -- who are to blame for these unethical actions. I suppose you saw ACT/Zuck getting exposed earlier. That was fun. | Feb 28 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | BN helps even /me/ organise my thoughts and references that 'profile' Microsoft lackeys (shills). I've been explaining (or trying to explain) before that the convenience of linking by POST_ID is the reason many links are internal. It would take a long time to pull the external ones if many are included in posts, whereas with POST_IDs it takes just seconds. Internal links are based on multiple external ones (supportive evidence). | Feb 28 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. Google the term "ron hovsepian" | Feb 28 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: the press keeps dying: Good-Bye Computer Shopper < http://blogs.computerworld.com/good_by... > | Feb 28 22:07 |
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| schestowitz | Tweet hackers reopen Twitter vuln http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/2... | Feb 28 22:15 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo Remodels the House Jerry and Terry Built < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/adverti... >. Yahoo will hopefully not collude with the Vole. | Feb 28 22:19 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| Balrog | ""The truth of the matter is all the consumer market mojo is with Apple and to a lesser extent BlackBerry," Ballmer said. "And yet, the real market momentum with operators and the real market momentum with device manufacturers seems to primarily be with Windows Mobile and Android." " | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| Balrog | --arstechnica | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| Balrog | who's MS selling to? "operators" and "device manufacturers" | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| Balrog | WM7 sucks, I hear, anyway | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| trmanco | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp... looks like it is not Gentoo's problem | Feb 28 22:20 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 22:21 |
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| trmanco | ping balzac | Feb 28 22:21 |
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| Balrog | the gentoo people said that ... also it didn't appear to be Gentoo's problem | Feb 28 22:21 |
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| Balrog | (gentoo people said that it was likely a bug in Mono) | Feb 28 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | I saw another issue with Gentoo/Mono. Let me find it if I can. | Feb 28 22:22 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 28 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | OK< got it: http://groups.google.com/group/com... | Feb 28 22:23 |
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| Balrog | some of Omni Group's apps are free now, not FOSS but free | Feb 28 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | Scroll down to Terry's message. Terry Porter is an ardent Gentoo supporter. | Feb 28 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | Full discussion @ http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux... | Feb 28 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | Ignore disruptors like "Miguel" | Feb 28 22:24 |
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| trmanco | .NET fail | Feb 28 22:25 |
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| Balrog | heh ... well it is a released ebuild now, but there's a significant difference between the released ebuild and the beta ebuild: the ffmpeg use flag is gone. | Feb 28 22:26 |
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| Balrog | you can't turn off ffmpeg linking | Feb 28 22:26 |
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| Balrog | (in the released ebuild) | Feb 28 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Bergelt said, "The OIN, Software Freedom Law Center, and the Linux Foundation are unified in our view that it is an act of provocation. The people concerned about patent issues around open source are firmly allied and prepared to support TomTom." http://www.linuxdevices.com/news... | Feb 28 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Here's a question: | Feb 28 22:27 |
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| schestowitz | If this total garbage is all boiling down to codecs | Feb 28 22:27 |
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| schestowitz | Then what the heck not just encourage Ogg and THML5? | Feb 28 22:27 |
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| Balrog | Codecs are a problem, but it's not only codecs. | Feb 28 22:27 |
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| schestowitz | What Novell does it like Red Hat promoting Flash. | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Moonlight is needed for nothing but some silly videos to stream | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | Moonlight/Silver Lie is mostly a container for Web video | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| Balrog | and some web apps | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: not many that are crucial | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| Balrog | yes, true. But then why does it work with ffmpeg? | Feb 28 22:28 |
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| schestowitz | I never find anything even in Flash that's crucial | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| Balrog | if you can link to ffmpeg, there should be no codec problems. | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | Bouncing objects are not Web forms | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | The important stuff is typically Flash-free is the Web dev is sane | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| Balrog | but they tell people you can't distribute an ffmpeg-linked copy | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | Novell's site is FILLED with Flash | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | The SUSE people never liked it | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | They think one way, Novell think another way | Feb 28 22:29 |
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| Balrog | unfortunately, flash is so ubiquitous :( | Feb 28 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/... | Feb 28 22:30 |
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| Balrog | I use clicktoflash here | Feb 28 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted this an hour ago. Scrool down to where Novell admits it's not a FOSS company when it comes to SUSE. | Feb 28 22:30 |
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| Balrog | (like flashblock) | Feb 28 22:30 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 22:31 |
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| Balrog | wasn't SUSE purchased from someone? (i.e. not Novell's own product originally) | Feb 28 22:32 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: I've seen winforms-style stuff in Moonlight content | Feb 28 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | That sounds reasonable. | Feb 28 22:33 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 22:34 |
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| Balrog | it came from slackware | Feb 28 22:34 |
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| Balrog | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE | Feb 28 22:34 |
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| Balrog | novell got it in Nov. 2003 | Feb 28 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Forms "As of 13 May 2008, Mono's System.Windows.Forms 2.0 is API complete (contains 100% of classes, methods etc. in Microsoft's System.Windows.Forms 2.0); also System.Windows.Forms 2.0 works natively on Mac OS X." | Feb 28 22:35 |
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| Balrog | yes I know. .NET 3.0 isn't in Mono btw | Feb 28 22:36 |
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| trmanco | http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-22/ | Feb 28 22:36 |
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| Balrog | and Silverlight 2.0 uses it | Feb 28 22:36 |
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| trmanco | yet | Feb 28 22:36 |
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| Balrog | heh ... it's in the svn tree, that's why I was trying to build svn (very very hard) | Feb 28 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F... Was he even in contact with SUSE? | Feb 28 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | The tomtom suit puts FAT under need for possible replacement | Feb 28 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | Imagine having to replace mono | Feb 28 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | APPS depend on it, thus the danger | Feb 28 22:38 |
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| Balrog | the only thing mono is good for is code already written in C# ... but C# is relatively new anyway | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about this here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008... | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| Balrog | I don't see any use to write new code in C# | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | Novell dos | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| Balrog | (or that relies on Mono) | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | *does (because its ally does) | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| Balrog | the compatibility part is useful though at times | Feb 28 22:39 |
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| Balrog | but if people didn't use it, we wouldn't need that | Feb 28 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | dotgnu gave some compatibility | Feb 28 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | still, mono is excuse for "you steal out IP"-type attack | Feb 28 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is not worried | Feb 28 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's protected for a while. | Feb 28 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | _a while___... | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| Balrog | simple. Don't include it with Linux | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Novell only.. | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: tell that to Mark Shuttleworth and others | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Heads in sand | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| Balrog | if people want to install it, they are liable, and they should know full well of the dangers | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| Balrog | Fedora doesn't have it ... neither Debian (I hear) | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/22/mar... | Feb 28 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: got wine? http://www.winehq.org/announce/1.1.16 | Feb 28 22:43 |
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| Balrog | Mono should not be part of the core Linux system anyway. Rather a compatibility thing | Feb 28 22:43 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, yes | Feb 28 22:43 |
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| Balrog | and not forced on people | Feb 28 22:44 |
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| trmanco | saw it this morning | Feb 28 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: +1 | Feb 28 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | BTW: Debian and MEPIS based on Debian) receive perfect reviews.. http://preacherpen.wordpress.com/2... This is important to GNU/Linux... Debian is the core of a lot of development (many key packages) | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| Balrog | even Java isn't a core component of Linux | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| Balrog | and it's FOSS | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | It might be | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | Fedora and Ubuntu might have it soon. | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | I can find you the links.. | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| Balrog | why core? aren't there better ways to do things? | Feb 28 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | tessier_ hates it | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| Balrog | Including Java is fine, but I should be able to tear it out and the system should still work fine | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | Study: Java still top programming language < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-... > | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | Let Java be in there just to suppress the Microsoft boosters | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| Balrog | of course it is. That's what they teach at the university I go there | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| Balrog | I go to * | Feb 28 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | The last think we need in a company that's suing Linux on our LIVE CDs | Feb 28 22:47 |
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| Balrog | but it shouldn't be *core*, meaning something that core system software relies on | Feb 28 22:47 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: I know. If you leave the MS boosters without 'babysitting', then they'll tell lies about Java being dead/dying | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| Balrog | Java is nowhere near dead | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | I get those comments from MS fans in BN as well. They damage Java's repuattion for mindshare | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| Balrog | Java is probably the most used language around | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | MS: "Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!" http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/... | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| Balrog | also it's truly cross platform | Feb 28 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft tried to change this | Feb 28 22:49 |
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| Balrog | yes, I remember | Feb 28 22:49 |
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| Balrog | the MS JRE | Feb 28 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/inde... | Feb 28 22:49 |
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| Balrog | there was at least one app that I had that required it (and wouldn't work with the Sun JRE) | Feb 28 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'll do some posts about that by the end of the eyar | Feb 28 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | COOL! Massive Layoffs Hit The RIAA: Maybe Focus On Building Business Rather Than Suing Customers Next Time? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090... > | Feb 28 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/sta... How good this is as a reflectant on use, who knows? Sales of books != use. | Feb 28 22:59 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 23:00 |
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| Balrog | not surprising | Feb 28 23:00 |
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| Balrog | heh ... C# is 1% | Feb 28 23:05 |
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| Balrog | (growth) | Feb 28 23:05 |
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| Balrog | but "C# is now the largest programming language for all book sales, and that was the case for all of 2008" | Feb 28 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | I look forward to seeing how this works out < http://blogs.computerworld.com/red... >. I've just left a question in the blog of IBM's Linux chief. They sell Open Client with RHEl. | Feb 28 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: /all/ books? | Feb 28 23:07 |
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| schestowitz | Or just ORLY books? | Feb 28 23:07 |
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| Balrog | ORLY I think | Feb 28 23:07 |
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| schestowitz | If ORLY et al publish more #c books (and they took MS employees), then.. | Feb 28 23:07 |
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| Balrog | I think many people are using Safari Books Online more and more | Feb 28 23:07 |
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| schestowitz | They took Brady Forrest (??) into ORLY Radar... he worked for Microsoft beforehand. | Feb 28 23:08 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote in the past about the MSFTisation of ORLY. | Feb 28 23:08 |
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| Balrog | I see. But don't they still have many good books? | Feb 28 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Tim, I'm getting the sense that Microsoft's influence on you is increasing. | Feb 28 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Tim: http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/orly.jpeg | Feb 28 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, but it depends what they cover | Feb 28 23:09 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | It smacks of fake surveys... like checking BN logs for OS usage | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Or checking ENGLISH-ONLY books for P/Ls | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| Balrog | well safari books online allows the subscriber to read any book from ORLY | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | bear in mind that US and UK are in bed with MS | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| Balrog | online | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Check books on German.. see how many use MS tech | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | English is always biased in MS' favour | Feb 28 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Also log usage.. Don't. Check. Only. US sites. | Feb 28 23:11 |
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| Balrog | and many university libraries (including the one I go to) has a subscription | Feb 28 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | US is one of the worst in terms of Linux adoption, but people at Apple and MS conveniently ingore this | Feb 28 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | Apple ignored the fact that like 150 of the world's nation know nothing about Apple and have no Apple products (or stores) | Feb 28 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | *nations | Feb 28 23:12 |
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| Balrog | interesting that MS doesn't have an official .NET-style runtime for Mac | Feb 28 23:12 |
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| Balrog | instead you use Mono for that (which isn't well supported) | Feb 28 23:12 |
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| Balrog | and a Mono-compiled program is a .exe by the way | Feb 28 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | 'Real' programmers will flock to the 'real thing' (Windows) | Feb 28 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | That's the idea. | Feb 28 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Make Windows premium | Feb 28 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Make devs on other platforms feel like suckers. And don't tell them about the "J" word | Feb 28 23:16 |
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| Balrog | 18:19 < Balrog> instead you use Mono for that (which isn't well supported) | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| Balrog | 18:21 < Balrog> and a Mono-compiled program is a .exe by the way | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| Balrog | 18:22 <@schestowitz> 'Real' programmers will flock to the 'real thing' (Windows) | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| Balrog | 18:22 <@schestowitz> That's the idea. | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| MinceR | it's an .exe because adding a new file type to the OS to handle is a task that's too great and difficult for m$ "developers" | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| Balrog | those aren't 'real programmers' | Feb 28 23:18 |
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| Balrog | I find the best software is usually platform-independent, with a bit of OS-specific code for GUI | Feb 28 23:19 |
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| MinceR | i find the best software is platform-independent, with toolkit-specific (and OS-independent) code for GUI | Feb 28 23:20 |
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| Balrog | that works for Linux | Feb 28 23:20 |
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| MinceR | and it runs under windows | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| MinceR | which is all one can ask for | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | with Mac, you really need to have some Cocoa code for a really great progra | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | program *** | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | see Adium | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | or Transmission | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| MinceR | that's because the mac gui is a retarded, stupid pile of crap | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | I disagree. But that's what I think | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| MinceR | and even then, qt and gtk apps will run on it | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | Qt better then GTK btw | Feb 28 23:21 |
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| Balrog | I find the Mac GUI superior to the Linux toolkits in many ways ... though the difference is becoming smaller as Linux GUI / toolkits mature. | Feb 28 23:22 |
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| Balrog | The programming method is one big difference though | Feb 28 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Objective C? | Feb 28 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Or SDKs? | Feb 28 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Or stupid Aqua themes? :-) | Feb 28 23:24 |
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| Balrog | Both Obj-C and the Cocoa API's | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | Trolltech has hugely powerful development tolls | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| Balrog | the themes keep changing | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | *tools | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| Balrog | true, Qt is getting better | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | The themes haven't changes much in OS X (ie. years). It might confuse Mac users :-D | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | *ged | Feb 28 23:25 |
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| Balrog | What about the themes? | Feb 28 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | Some people are impressed by visual aspects of GUI | Feb 28 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | Not how they are constructed and how many P/Ls are supported | Feb 28 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | I will admit that I never used an Apple toolkit | Feb 28 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | A friend of mine did a big Cocoa project in 2001 | Feb 28 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | I think he ported something to Linux, but I can't recall now because it's been ages | Feb 28 23:27 |
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| Balrog | Apple's visual toolkit is better in a way ... probably the unified menubar and the whole application-based model (vs. document-based) are big timesavers | Feb 28 23:27 |
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| Balrog | In 2001, Cocoa was in its infancy (on OS X) | Feb 28 23:27 |
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| MinceR | i find the mac gui inferior to just about all the other guis i've ever known | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| Balrog | MinceR: explain | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| Balrog | have you used it for more than a few days? | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| MinceR | it's inflexible, can't be made to use mousefocus/sloppyfocus | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| MinceR | it wants to keep all the windows of one app on the same layer because of the hack with which multitasking was implemented in macos 6+ | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| Balrog | I find mousefocus to be a nuisance. | Feb 28 23:28 |
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| MinceR | the point here is giving the user a choice | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | even windows does that to some extent | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | macos doesn't | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| Balrog | windows in the same layer doesn't seem to be a problem anymore | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| Balrog | how does Windows give users a choice? | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | apple believes they're smarter than the user and don't miss an opportunity to make that explicit | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | by having meaningful control panel options | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| Balrog | no, they don't want users to be annoyed by inconsistent behavior | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | unlike the ludicrous apple control panel | Feb 28 23:29 |
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| MinceR | i'm sure the dialog box button order, as specified by the apple hig is the pinnacle of consistency | Feb 28 23:30 |
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| MinceR | it's consistent with idiocy | Feb 28 23:30 |
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| Balrog | ?? | Feb 28 23:30 |
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| MinceR | also, macos even complicates switching between windows | Feb 28 23:30 |
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| Balrog | no, simply press Cmd-~ for within app, and Cmd-Tap for between app | Feb 28 23:31 |
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| Balrog | saves me lots of time | Feb 28 23:31 |
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| MinceR | why are apps all that important there? | Feb 28 23:31 |
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| Balrog | Having apps separate is a big timesaver. It's easier to keep track of what's going on | Feb 28 23:32 |
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| MinceR | i know i'd be annoyed to hell if my gvim windows were forced to be together | Feb 28 23:32 |
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| Balrog | I used windows for a few years. | Feb 28 23:32 |
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| MinceR | that's what virtual desktops are for | Feb 28 23:32 |
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| Balrog | I find virtual desktops annoying | Feb 28 23:32 |
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| MinceR | btw, i find sloppyfocus to be indispensable | Feb 28 23:33 |
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| Balrog | in any case, the windows aren't strictly kept together but switching windows is grouped by app | Feb 28 23:33 |
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| MinceR | that's not the story i've heard :> | Feb 28 23:33 |
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| Balrog | meaning mouse focus? extremely annoying. Tried it and hated it | Feb 28 23:33 |
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| Balrog | what story did you hear? | Feb 28 23:33 |
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| MinceR | mouse focus except the root window isn't focused | Feb 28 23:34 |
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| Balrog | that's sloppy focus? | Feb 28 23:34 |
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| MinceR | that if you switch to a window, all windows belonging to that app will also come to the top | Feb 28 23:34 |
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| MinceR | yes, that's sloppyfocus in fvwm terms | Feb 28 23:34 |
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| Balrog | well "if you switch to a window, all windows belonging to that app will also come to the top" doesn't happen for me | Feb 28 23:34 |
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| Balrog | I have a finder window, the terminal, and another finder window in that exact order | Feb 28 23:35 |
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| MinceR | also, i find having the menu at the top of the screen extremely annoying | Feb 28 23:35 |
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| Balrog | I find that very useful. But that's about tastes | Feb 28 23:35 |
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| MinceR | even beyond the fact that it just doesn't work with mousefocus/sloppyfocus | Feb 28 23:35 |
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| schestowitz | MS nervous about Linux servers: "Microsoft Partners: New Windows Server Aimed At Linux" http://www.crn.com/software/215600097 | Feb 28 23:35 |
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| MinceR | well, kde lets you decide whether you want it that way or not | Feb 28 23:36 |
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| MinceR | iirc it's even possible with gtk | Feb 28 23:36 |
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| MinceR | but with apple, it's jobs' way or the highway | Feb 28 23:36 |
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| Balrog | except that programmers make it harder ... having something unified keeps sloppy / lazy programmers from doing things like they want | Feb 28 23:36 |
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| Balrog | jobs' way? you should see NeXTSTEP ... that's Jobs' software | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | you'd hate it vehemently (the ui) | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | well it's not around anymore as it was | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | In Apple, copy and paste is not allowed either | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | Someone added this functionality | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | ohh you mean in the finder? | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | S/he got banned | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | The app got sumped | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| MinceR | how much is nextstep like windowmaker? | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | *dumped | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | or the iphone? | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | well I hear they were going outside the app's sandbox | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | illegal behavior | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| MinceR | lol | Feb 28 23:37 |
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| Balrog | (according to the rules) | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| MinceR | yes, it's illegal to have useful apps on iphones | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| MinceR | that's why i got a real pda/phone instead | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| Balrog | most of the apps are useful | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| MinceR | (also because i'm not sure if iphones where invented back then) | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| Balrog | back ... when? | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| Balrog | (oh ... wasn't apple the first to have real copy/paste?) | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| MinceR | 2007 or 2008, i think | Feb 28 23:38 |
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| Balrog | what pda/phone do you have? | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| Balrog | that horrible palmos? | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| MinceR | (wasn't xerox the first to have real copy/paste?) | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| MinceR | i have a qtek 9100 | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| MinceR | (also known as htc wizard 200) | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| MinceR | it eats the jesusPhone for breakfast | Feb 28 23:39 |
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| Balrog | Xerox was the first to do a lot of stuff. | Feb 28 23:40 |
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| Balrog | yeah, they did copy-paste, but didn't integrate it into the UI that well | Feb 28 23:40 |
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| Balrog | I rarely use copy-paste ... having spring-loaded folders (missing from Windows) makes it not that critical | Feb 28 23:41 |
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| Balrog | (well copy-paste in Finder) | Feb 28 23:41 |
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| Balrog | wait ... I remembered they DO have COPY just not CUT | Feb 28 23:42 |
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| Balrog | works here :) | Feb 28 23:42 |
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| MinceR | well, the jesusPhone doesn't have copy/paste | Feb 28 23:42 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 28 23:42 |
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| MinceR | and when someone tried to implement it, apple prevented them from doing so | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| Balrog | I don't call it that, because it's just a phone | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| MinceR | well, some idiots consider it to be the second coming | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| Balrog | more like phone/OSX-pda hybrid | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| MinceR | even though it's just a locked-up featurephone sold for the price of a pda/phone | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| Balrog | even the G1 is locked-up | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| MinceR | yes, sadly | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| Balrog | apps are stuck in java sandboxes | Feb 28 23:43 |
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| MinceR | well, wm5 isn't locked up that badly | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | neither is palm os 5 | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| Balrog | but WM sucks big-time | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| Balrog | and palmos sucks as well | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | yes, they suck | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| Balrog | I've worked with a palm | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | but they don't suck nearly as much as the jesusPhone os sucks | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| Balrog | OS X on iphone doesn't suck as much at all | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | or android | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | except the whole stuff that would make it a pda | Feb 28 23:44 |
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| MinceR | you know, open platform, letting you write your own apps, copy/paste, stuff like that | Feb 28 23:45 |
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| Balrog | once you jailbreak the device and play around with the software on it, you see that it's quite good | Feb 28 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | Palm is quite hackable | Feb 28 23:45 |
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| Balrog | I'd like to see stuff like copy/paste | Feb 28 23:45 |
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| Balrog | iphone is extremely hackable | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | Yet secure | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | To Apple, "security" means control | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | g1 has some nice YouTube feature | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| Balrog | (and secure too ... not by "control" btw). | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | Can watch videos on the phone (on demand) while waiting. Nothing innovative, but useful for sure. | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| MinceR | once you jailbreak the device, you lose warranty | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| Balrog | youtube is in iphone | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| MinceR | also, apple is trying to make that illegal | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| MinceR | just to show you how much they care about the users | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | It already has | Feb 28 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | (made it illegal, AFAIK) | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| Balrog | MinceR: how do you lose warranty? you just un-jailbreak by restoring the device | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | also, the next upgrade is likely to turn your jailbroken jesusPhone into a jesusBrick | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| Balrog | Apple hasn't made it illegal BTW ... they want it NOT to be declared legal under the DMCA | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: and then they prove you did tamper with it | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | Not Brickphone? | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | and you're screwed | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | iBrick, BrickPhone, whatever works | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | except it doesn't work ;) | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | You run away too far from the original name. | Feb 28 23:47 |
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| MinceR | well, they've cleverly co-opted the iBrick name | Feb 28 23:48 |
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| Balrog | The iphone hackers have found that it's impossible to brick an ipod touch (there's a burned-in-ROM recovery mode) and it's similar with the iphone | Feb 28 23:48 |
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| MinceR | i used to call the jesusPhone iBrick | Feb 28 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | I know. | Feb 28 23:48 |
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| MinceR | also, they probably block music uploads to the device in the same way they do with ipods | Feb 28 23:48 |
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| Balrog | 'block music uploads'? | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| MinceR | (which was cracked and then they brought out the dmca-hammer) | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| Balrog | ahh that | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| twitter | who needs a waranty? | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| Balrog | well the EFF is behind that so we'll see | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| MinceR | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p... | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| MinceR | well, have fun trying to get around restrictions apple puts on their products | Feb 28 23:49 |
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| MinceR | meanwhile, i'll do some useful work and actual entertainment | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| Balrog | there's nothing they can do about OS X | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| Balrog | by the way Fairplay has been cracked | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| MinceR | indeed, osx is beyond salvation | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| MinceR | well, all kinds of DRM get cracked | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| Balrog | meaning they can't prevent me from messing with OSX however I want | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| twitter | I would not want an iPhone unless I could liberate it. | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| MinceR | the only people it inconveniences are the typical users who don't know enough | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| Balrog | and the crack is open-source btw | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | Gah! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29410010/ Funambol is helping binaryPhones now... | Feb 28 23:50 |
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| twitter | The major thing preventing liberation is the telco. | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| MinceR | so guess what, apple screws its own paying customers first and foremost | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| Balrog | they sent the people who wrote it a DMCA notice, so it moved to freenet :) | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Mozilla is behind it as well. | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | And other companies | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| MinceR | i wouldn't want an iphone even then, either | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| MinceR | because it has no keyboard | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | Even the Mac fans who work at Mozilla are against Apple | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| MinceR | having my palm pda taught me that nothing can substitute a real keyboard | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| Balrog | keyboards are a reliability problem | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| twitter | eh, MinceR, Graphiti works better than a keyboard | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| Balrog | too many moving parts | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| MinceR | twitter: lol | Feb 28 23:51 |
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| twitter | to each his own. | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| MinceR | twitter: hint: i've used graffiti (however it's spelled) | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| MinceR | it's a total pain in the ass to use | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| Balrog | MANY Mac fans complain about apple | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| Balrog | I complain about some of the things they do | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| MinceR | in the end i've ended up using messagease but even that was painful | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| Balrog | (like this 'ipodhash' thing, for example) | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: not true. | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| MinceR | the keyboard of the qtek 9100 was a real relief | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | I have a foldable keyboard for my Palm and it's full size | Feb 28 23:52 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: and then you go back for a second helping of the screwage they deliver | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| twitter | did you use the real graphiti or that horrid "handwriting recognition" that lawsuits forced on everyone? | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: and how are keyboards a "reliability problem" exactly? | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| Balrog | because their stuff works better than the competition, at least now | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| Balrog | dirt in keyboard..... | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| Balrog | crumbs ...... | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| MinceR | lol | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| Balrog | can't happen with a touchscreen | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| twitter | eventually, keyboards fail | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| MinceR | how do you use your gadgets? | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: I use graffiti1 | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| MinceR | do you alternately dip them in lard and mud? | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| MinceR | or what? | Feb 28 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Xerox sued, no? | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Bastards | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | helping 'innovation' | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| twitter | Xstroke works almost as well. | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: xerox? | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: not even the jesusPhone is hermetically sealed | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| MinceR | so it will fail if you treat it that way | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Who would have thought...? | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Draw a line | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| Balrog | I didn't say hermetically sealed | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | it makes an 'i' | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Draw a circle, it's make an 'o' | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Cavemen fogured it out | Feb 28 23:54 |
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| Balrog | with keyboards, it often occurs that you need to press harder for a key to work | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| MinceR | i think what they patented was the single-stroke design of the more complex letters | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| Balrog | I've seen it *many times( | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| twitter | reduced stroke set was a great idea. Was it really Xerox that sued. | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| Balrog | times* | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| MinceR | because they couldn't manage to recognize them with multiple strokes | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| MinceR | it took the developers of Jot to do that | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, patented | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | Not invented | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| twitter | it's an obvious idea | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | It's obvious | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| MinceR | and strangely enough, palm licensed Jot later | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | Because they are stupid.. in a stupid system | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| MinceR | (well, a dumbed-down version) | Feb 28 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | Passing costs to users | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: i suspect you're using some of the worst keyboards in the world | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| twitter | Xstroke works still and I think it's free software | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: are they from apple? | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | Now they have the hipsters from Apple claiming ownership of two fingers | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| Balrog | MinceR: no, Apple keyboards work quite well for me. Nokia and Motorola keyboards have been quite nasty | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| MinceR | apple claims ownership of all kinds of ideas, including ones they didn't invent in the first place | Feb 28 23:56 |
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| Balrog | I don't see how this patent will hold up in court if they try to claim it's so broad | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: what a pity the jesusPhone doesn't happen to have one of those wonderful apple keyboards then. | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| MinceR | i think they hope not to have to take it to court | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| twitter | graffiti worked well for field notes and other PDA type stuff. | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| MinceR | like microsoft, apple uses patent FUD heavily | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| MinceR | see the case when they tried to intimidate palm. | Feb 28 23:57 |
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| MinceR | twitter: yes, but not for longer texts | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| Balrog | heh. On such a small device, a keyboard wouldn't add as much value as on a laptop or desktop | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| twitter | for console work, I preferred the mechanical keyboard on Zaurus. | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: actually it would | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| Balrog | I've tried that keyboard. Still slow. | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| MinceR | which one? | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| MinceR | and slow compared to what? | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| Balrog | SL5500 I think | Feb 28 23:58 |
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| Balrog | compared to a decent touch-based system | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| twitter | that is the most popular model | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| MinceR | phone keyboards, graffiti, messagease, desktop keyboards? | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| MinceR | lol | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| Balrog | I need a battery | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| Balrog | (for it) | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| MinceR | decent touch-based systems don't exist | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| MinceR | decent systems require tactile feedback | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| Balrog | capacitive, like in iPhone, are quite decent | Feb 28 23:59 |
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| MinceR | it's a pity zaurus died | Feb 28 23:59 |
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Comments
walterbyrd
2009-03-01 14:08:20
1. LIMITED LICENSE AND COVENANT NOT TO SUE.
(a) Provided that you comply with all terms and conditions of this Agreement and subject to the limitations in Sections 1(c) - (f) below, Microsoft grants to you the following non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, non-transferable, non-sublicenseable license under any copyrights owned or licensable by Microsoft without payment of consideration to unaffiliated third parties, to reproduce the Specification solely for the purposes of creating portions of products which comply with the Specification in unmodified form.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/fatgen.mspx
Roy Schestowitz
2009-03-01 14:25:26