To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| it seems to work very well | Apr 12 02:26 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Apr 12 02:26 | |
| oiaohm | You don't have the coders you cannot have maintaince. | Apr 12 02:26 |
| oiaohm | You don't have the coders you cannot have features. | Apr 12 02:26 |
| you only lack coders when no one is interested | Apr 12 02:27 | |
| that's not really a problem | Apr 12 02:27 | |
| it's a feature | Apr 12 02:27 | |
| oiaohm | Depending on the complexity of feature or maintance some require full time coders. | Apr 12 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Interest is generated. | Apr 12 02:27 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: it only one needs a coder for maintenance | Apr 12 02:27 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Apr 12 02:28 |
| oiaohm | What is the problem with only 1 coder. | Apr 12 02:28 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: only 1 coder can , fix bug one by one | Apr 12 02:28 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: features not | Apr 12 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Lack of means to look at problem from different points of view and fix the problem in the most effective way. | Apr 12 02:28 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: features needs a lot of coders | Apr 12 02:28 |
| if only one person is interested in the software, the software is of little interest. | Apr 12 02:29 | |
| oiaohm | So 1 coder you end up with a crap program in most cases. | Apr 12 02:29 |
| oiaohm | due to that coders lack of skill. | Apr 12 02:29 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But sometimes we need to live this way | Apr 12 02:29 |
| oiaohm | A project with one coder is not living its dieing. | Apr 12 02:29 |
| seller_liar | In fact free software existis to replace proprietary software | Apr 12 02:30 |
| oiaohm | No | Apr 12 02:30 |
| seller_liar | Amarok to replace windows media player | Apr 12 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Free software existed before proprietary software. | Apr 12 02:30 |
| oiaohm | proprietary software is the latter invention. | Apr 12 02:30 |
| seller_liar | It windows media player or winamp don t exist , people don get interest to do a player | Apr 12 02:30 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Apr 12 02:31 |
| free software exists because people want to make their computers work and they want to do it with freedom and cooperation | Apr 12 02:31 | |
| oiaohm | There were media players before both of them. | Apr 12 02:31 |
| seller_liar | Soory , bad idea | Apr 12 02:31 |
| seller_liar | Again | Apr 12 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Companies use open soruce for cooperation with each other. | Apr 12 02:31 |
| seller_liar | The need for features in free software exist because someone have created features in proprietary software | Apr 12 02:32 |
| oiaohm | So they can have bigger coding teams and get better quality code with the features they need. | Apr 12 02:32 |
| You think people need to see a commercial player to want their computers to play music? | Apr 12 02:32 | |
| oiaohm | Blender has some features no proprietray software currently in production has. | Apr 12 02:32 |
| seller_liar | If some features don t exist in proprietray software , then the free software don t need to implement such features | Apr 12 02:32 |
| oiaohm | And those were added in the time of Open source. | Apr 12 02:33 |
| seller_liar | only and , if only , the coder wants | Apr 12 02:33 |
| oiaohm | And those features come from commerical coders working for video prodution companies. | Apr 12 02:33 |
| oiaohm | Like the Linux kernel 80 perent of it patches come from commerical coders. | Apr 12 02:34 |
| seller_liar | Free software is not obligated to implement features , if the same features don t exist in proprietary software | Apr 12 02:34 |
| oiaohm | People don't understand most of great open source project is work by commerial coders. | Apr 12 02:34 |
| seller_liar | because people don want features because these features does not even exist | Apr 12 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Free software don't have to create features that exist in propriertay software eitehr. | Apr 12 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Like blender is not going to copy some features of maya. | Apr 12 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Like the maya scripting language. | Apr 12 02:35 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: maya is more popular | Apr 12 02:35 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Apr 12 02:36 |
| oiaohm | Maya and blender are equal on usage. | Apr 12 02:36 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: not because of scripting language ,but because another movie-tech features | Apr 12 02:36 |
| oiaohm | To be correct blender is more used. | Apr 12 02:36 |
| oiaohm | Main reason is the freedom to add features as needed. | Apr 12 02:36 |
| oiaohm | Maya cannot do something you are basically stuffed. | Apr 12 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Blender here coder make this for me. | Apr 12 02:37 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But this causes serious problems to free software | Apr 12 02:37 |
| oiaohm | No it does not. | Apr 12 02:37 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: because , it needs more coders to maintenance and implement features | Apr 12 02:37 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: We don t implement features all the time if people don t need | Apr 12 02:37 |
| oiaohm | And they are simple to get. | Apr 12 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Project who does not fear intergrating with commerical does not have problems. | Apr 12 02:38 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Again , the big problem in free software is the features | Apr 12 02:38 |
| oiaohm | No | Apr 12 02:38 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: because it costs too much | Apr 12 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Apr 12 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Cost is not the issue. | Apr 12 02:39 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Yes , it is | Apr 12 02:39 |
| oiaohm | Why can ammorok have full time coders and rymthombox cannot. | Apr 12 02:39 |
| seller_liar | look rhythmbox | Apr 12 02:39 |
| oiaohm | Why can 1 have it and the other not. | Apr 12 02:39 |
| seller_liar | To implement a lot of features | Apr 12 02:40 |
| oiaohm | KDE does not fear working with commericals | Apr 12 02:40 |
| oiaohm | To be correct they go out of there way to get there. | Apr 12 02:40 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm:But this causes dependancy | Apr 12 02:40 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: We need to boycott novell because novell is crazy | Apr 12 02:40 |
| oiaohm | Not if you have enough competeting companies. | Apr 12 02:40 |
| seller_liar | but we don t because novell helps a lot of projects | Apr 12 02:41 |
| seller_liar | you see? | Apr 12 02:41 |
| seller_liar | commecial support creates dependency | Apr 12 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Gnome never went out of it way to get more than one sponscor. | Apr 12 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Single entity commerial support creates dependancy. | Apr 12 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Projects like the Linux kernel with many companies there is really not a dependency problem. | Apr 12 02:42 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But only a few projects has more than one sponsor | Apr 12 02:42 |
| oiaohm | Have those projects tried to get more. | Apr 12 02:42 |
| oiaohm | As they should have. | Apr 12 02:42 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: It's not sooo easyt | Apr 12 02:42 |
| oiaohm | Supprising it is. | Apr 12 02:42 |
| oiaohm | Ammrok went from 0 to 15 in 1 month. | Apr 12 02:43 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: It depends | Apr 12 02:43 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Some companies like microsoft put very constraints in novell | Apr 12 02:43 |
| oiaohm | so why deal with Novell. | Apr 12 02:43 |
| seller_liar | IBM is very radical in Linux foundation | Apr 12 02:43 |
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| seller_liar | Linux foundation because of sponsor loses the interest in free software | Apr 12 02:45 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Apr 12 02:45 |
| oiaohm | Linux foundation why was it created. | Apr 12 02:45 |
| oiaohm | It was a solution to a bidding war to employ linus. | Apr 12 02:46 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Linux foundation does not have interest in fsf | Apr 12 02:46 |
| oiaohm | Why should it. | Apr 12 02:46 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: OpenSource sponsored does not change nothing | Apr 12 02:46 |
| oiaohm | It exists to support Linux. | Apr 12 02:46 |
| oiaohm | Just like the KDE foundation exists to support KDE. | Apr 12 02:47 |
| seller_liar | Yes , but sponsor interests is put in first priority | Apr 12 02:47 |
| seller_liar | Like mono in gnome | Apr 12 02:48 |
| oiaohm | Lead coder has more effects than sponsor | Apr 12 02:49 |
| oiaohm | TPM support in Linux kernel is a good example of that. | Apr 12 02:49 |
| seller_liar | haha , do you believe in such lie? | Apr 12 02:49 |
| oiaohm | IBM patch was rejected may times. sponsorship did not change the outcome of quality checks. | Apr 12 02:50 |
| oiaohm | When sponsor appoints the lead coder then you have a problem. | Apr 12 02:50 |
| oiaohm | Gnome again. | Apr 12 02:50 |
| seller_liar | Ok you win! | Apr 12 02:51 |
| seller_liar | But I think the real problem in software is the lack of investiment in documentation | Apr 12 02:51 |
| oiaohm | You don't get documtation while people are run of there feet fixing things. | Apr 12 02:51 |
| seller_liar | not only stupid doxyfiles , but a compllete explanation of software (development aspects ,algorithms, coding etc.... | Apr 12 02:52 |
| oiaohm | Because documentation writers get pissed of at things changing. | Apr 12 02:52 |
| oiaohm | And leave. | Apr 12 02:52 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: The solution is enforce to document every commit | Apr 12 02:52 |
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| oiaohm | Maintaince stable is key to documentation. | Apr 12 02:52 |
| oiaohm | All problems start from one point. | Apr 12 02:53 |
| oiaohm | The coders. | Apr 12 02:53 |
| seller_liar | and documentation have a price, but it helps the obtains more coders | Apr 12 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Remember documentaiton that is valid cannot be formed without stable mainatince from the existing coders. | Apr 12 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Existing coders can basically kill the project future. | Apr 12 02:54 |
| seller_liar | of course , it like tests , but good documentation attract more devs | Apr 12 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Valid documenation. | Apr 12 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Ok does not have to be great. | Apr 12 02:54 |
| oiaohm | But it must be correct. Nothing is worse for a new developer following a document that is incorrect. | Apr 12 02:55 |
| oiaohm | No documentation is better than invalid. | Apr 12 02:55 |
| seller_liar | It's more better than undocumented | Apr 12 02:56 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: The problem is lack of accessible documentation | Apr 12 02:56 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: We need to write very easy documentation for beginners | Apr 12 02:57 |
| seller_liar | doxyfiles are not good documentation for beginners | Apr 12 02:57 |
| seller_liar | doxyfiles helps only developers | Apr 12 02:57 |
| seller_liar | I hate doxyfiles! | Apr 12 02:57 |
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| seller_liar | Do you have some idea to remove mono from ubuntu and all other distros? | Apr 12 03:06 |
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| jose | schestowitz, for when you get back, here are two links. If you have them, no harm in repeating I suppose: | Apr 12 03:48 |
| jose | http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald... | Apr 12 03:48 |
| jose | http://www.salon.com/opinio... | Apr 12 03:48 |
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| DaemonFC | "I am not just a fanboy, my hatred of them runs deep and on many levels" -Me | Apr 12 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 12 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | "them" refers to Apple and Microsoft | Apr 12 06:38 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Someone from Microsoft emailed me | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Offered you something | Apr 12 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | their official line on the NTFS data corruption issue is a SATA bug | Apr 12 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | in Windows 7 build 7057 | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | I heard about it before | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | They isolate dissent | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | They have agencies to track this | Apr 12 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | no, they haven't offered me anything | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | WaggenerE | Apr 12 08:40 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: probably being polite to change one's opinion | Apr 12 08:41 |
| schestowitz | I read stories about how they work | Apr 12 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'd probably take the bribe then not do the positive retraction bit | Apr 12 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 12 08:41 |
| schestowitz | In other cases they offered gifts | Apr 12 08:41 |
| schestowitz | Like to CharlieD from The Inquirer | Apr 12 08:41 |
| schestowitz | because he wrote scathing reports about Vista | Apr 12 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: "I'm writing this entry on the laptop Microsoft tried to buy me with, it runs Linux now, I still hate Windows but I appreciate the gift" | Apr 12 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | The very fact that they contacted you is further confirmation of the Microsoft patrol for Vista7 defense | Apr 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | It's a known thing | Apr 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | They hire people in agencies like Edelman for this | Apr 12 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | they didn't say they were MS | Apr 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | W-E gave laptop bribes | Apr 12 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | but I traced the IP to a block MS owns | Apr 12 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | so it was them | Apr 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | Any sig? | Apr 12 08:43 |
| schestowitz | Maybe one of their agencies. | Apr 12 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | and the guy knew too much about Windows 7 to not work for them | Apr 12 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | well, they seem to be using Comcast lines in Minnesota | Apr 12 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | cause I got a lot of hatemail from other IP blocks belonging to Comcast in Minnesota | Apr 12 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | it was different IPs, but there were all in Minnesota and they belong to Comcast | Apr 12 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | so I think MS is buying Comcast cable lines for these agencies to post comments with | Apr 12 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | that way if they leave a comment on your blog it doesn't look like it's all coming from MS | Apr 12 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty funny really, it's been everything from unintelligible cursing to "You were doing it wrong" to this latest response | Apr 12 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | I think it's all one guy and he's a meat puppet | Apr 12 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | If I was thinking more I would have saved them | Apr 12 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | but it didn't occur to me how much of that I was getting til just now | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | They hire for that | Apr 12 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | so it will be interesting to see how much more I get | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft employees blew the whistle | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | BN gets comments from Novell employees too | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | In disguise | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | They got caught | Apr 12 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 12 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | Nothing like telling what you really feel about their product | Apr 12 08:49 |
| schestowitz | It's like the MS Statsi | Apr 12 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Not sure about the spelling.. pronnounciation | Apr 12 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | if they paid programmers to fix Windows instead of street gangs to harass bloggers | Apr 12 08:50 |
| schestowitz | They have you checked now | Apr 12 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | maybe this stuff would get fixed | Apr 12 08:50 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazi | Apr 12 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | I know what that is | Apr 12 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | but it seems like if they spent money on fixing Windows instead of advertising and trying to threaten and bribe | Apr 12 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | then their product would be good | Apr 12 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | and advertise itself | Apr 12 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | I think Apple had an ad making fun of that | Apr 12 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 12 08:51 |
| schestowitz | It's the 'Homeland Security' of Germany at the time BTW | Apr 12 08:51 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's something like that with advertising, yes... | Apr 12 08:52 |
| schestowitz | They put 300/500m in the pot | Apr 12 08:52 |
| schestowitz | Back around Mojava/Seinfeld days | Apr 12 08:52 |
| schestowitz | *Mojave | Apr 12 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | $500 million would hire many programmers for many man hours | Apr 12 08:52 |
| schestowitz | These campaigns dfid not work | Apr 12 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | and could sort Windows out into a decent system | Apr 12 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | and instead they hire Seinfeld | Apr 12 08:52 |
| schestowitz | Plan B was publicity stunts with betas and pre-betas | Apr 12 08:53 |
| schestowitz | One person in ZDNet said half a billion | Apr 12 08:53 |
| schestowitz | "If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.” --Bill gates | Apr 12 08:53 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I jnow they could us eprogrammers | Apr 12 08:53 |
| schestowitz | But it ain't enough | Apr 12 08:54 |
| schestowitz | Also, Vista 7 is developed in Bangalore AFAIK | Apr 12 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't surprise me | Apr 12 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | IE is | Apr 12 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: IE 8 has gotten a lot better, unfortunately it was in the pits when they started actively developing it again | Apr 12 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | so it's still years behind the others | Apr 12 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | I dunno, I'm using IE on that test system while I kick Windows 7 around | Apr 12 08:57 |
| DaemonFC | I don't see myself buying 7 tthough | Apr 12 08:57 |
| schestowitz | Is it not a 'free' upgrade? | Apr 12 08:59 |
| schestowitz | To Vista victim (the first edition)? | Apr 12 08:59 |
| schestowitz | Another review of Vista 7: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/1... | Apr 12 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Vista was the last straw for me | Apr 12 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | I only checked out 7 cause the beta is free | Apr 12 09:11 |
| schestowitz | I would not bother myself | Apr 12 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't even buy Vista, I got a remanufactured PC and they said No OS, and left the last guy's Vista copy on there | Apr 12 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | his data and all | Apr 12 09:11 |
| schestowitz | New PCs will be saddled with Vista7 | Apr 12 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | so I figured since I had it, I'd use it for a few days and see if I liked it | Apr 12 09:11 |
| schestowitz | But not many people buy PCs | Apr 12 09:11 |
| schestowitz | China is the fastest growing economy now | Apr 12 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | well of course | Apr 12 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | everyone else in the world is buying crap from China | Apr 12 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | and trying to be a country of IP owners | Apr 12 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | that's what the WTO is, they're the patent enforcement muscle | Apr 12 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Basically, widespread unemployment was always going to be the result of this | Apr 12 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | the wealthy elite knew it 20 years ago, they didn't care cause they are the few that benefit | Apr 12 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes, hence some secret summits | Apr 12 09:18 |
| schestowitz | Topic: "how to cope with world power transition" | Apr 12 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Unemployment in this area is 10% or higher, and that's just what the government is admitting | Apr 12 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | some areas of this state are at 15% or more | Apr 12 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | politicians always know how to wedge in divisive social issues to take the focus off this stuff | Apr 12 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | and they always extend unemployment benefits in an election year | Apr 12 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | people are conditioned by this society to want a quick fix and not a long term solution, they think in the term of today or this week | Apr 12 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | not what happens to them in 10 years | Apr 12 09:22 |
| schestowitz | The state of Microsoft security this week: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/12/... | Apr 12 09:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not true | Apr 12 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Unemployment is much higher | Apr 12 09:22 |
| schestowitz | They deceive the American public | Apr 12 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I ran the numbers on the Conficker thing installing the fack antivirus | Apr 12 09:22 |
| schestowitz | They changed the way they count | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | it creats optimism | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Also, it makes the numbers not comparable | Apr 12 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | if even 1% of users pay the $50 ransom, then the virus author makes $10 million | Apr 12 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | assuming 20 million infected PCs | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Like, they not have an 'expiration' on unemployment statis | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | So that they can show disparity wrt The Great Depression | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | It's a well known fact to those who /check/ | Apr 12 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Agreed about social issues. Clash of civilisation deflect the issues | Apr 12 09:24 |
| schestowitz | *tions | Apr 12 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: By my calculations, it's actually more profitable to write viruses for Windows than legitimate software | Apr 12 09:25 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the economics of cybercrime are a brute-force thing | Apr 12 09:25 |
| schestowitz | And it triples by some criteria. Skilled engineers out of work and money lends to the problem | Apr 12 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | you mean like "Microsoft laid me off, I know the ins and outs of Windows, I can make a ransomware virus that spreads unchecked." | Apr 12 09:26 |
| schestowitz | That too | Apr 12 09:27 |
| schestowitz | I thought about it | Apr 12 09:27 |
| schestowitz | Disgruntled employees don't need to become crackers | Apr 12 09:27 |
| schestowitz | But they can sell source code | Apr 12 09:27 |
| DaemonFC | true | Apr 12 09:27 |
| DaemonFC | I saw the NT4/Windows 2000 source that leaked | Apr 12 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | years back | Apr 12 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | only a portion of it | Apr 12 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | it got swiped off a system that belonged to a company that was using it to port Internet Explorer to UNIX | Apr 12 09:28 |
| schestowitz | It's impossible to prevent uch leaks | Apr 12 09:29 |
| schestowitz | The code must be assumed to have already be leaked | Apr 12 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Might as we go Free software | Apr 12 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Same with the music and gaming industry (DRM) | Apr 12 09:30 |
| schestowitz | I can assure you there are WIndows source code leaks that DONT end up on the Net | Apr 12 09:30 |
| schestowitz | It's enough to have a Microsoft employee with a stolen laptop. That too is a leak | Apr 12 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 12 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | well, the shared source thing makes it worse | Apr 12 09:31 |
| schestowitz | Here in the UK there are many similar discussions about large database because they ALWAYS get leaked sooner or later. Not to the INTERNET... to people who can use this data to advertise, defraud, etc. | Apr 12 09:31 |
| schestowitz | *databases | Apr 12 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | cause then you have governments and other organizations with source code | Apr 12 09:31 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/_Goblin/s... "_Goblin Windows 7: "Driver trashes OS" - Whats to come when it hits the shelves? " | Apr 12 09:32 |
| schestowitz | Phew. That was FAST. | Apr 12 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | "How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a lightbulb? None. Their marketing team tells you to buy a new lamp." -Me | Apr 12 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 12 09:33 |
| oiaohm | Really its not that. | Apr 12 09:35 |
| oiaohm | Its numbers of developers. | Apr 12 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | that was my point | Apr 12 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | the more people that have the code, the more the chance that someone leaks it | Apr 12 09:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: maybe Microsoft will be shaved | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | Until the skin which is Windows and Office remains | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | No Encarta, no MSN.. | Apr 12 09:36 |
| oiaohm | Basically Microsoft engineers and a light bulb fails its not important because they are too busy holding up the walls so the roof don't fall in | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | MSN is still losing LOADS of money | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | But it's the only way Microsoft can hit Google in the pocket | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | So it's stratgic suicide to give up and stop the pain | Apr 12 09:36 |
| schestowitz | They rely on the Bartz/Icahn plants of theirs now. | Apr 12 09:37 |
| schestowitz | Two phony 'businesspeople' | Apr 12 09:37 |
| oiaohm | MS has no option bar to do stratgic suicide and hope Windows 7 sells. | Apr 12 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | how can you LOSE money when you sell people nothing for hundreds of dollars? | Apr 12 09:37 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: chances of leaks increase because of offshoring | Apr 12 09:37 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is developed in India | Apr 12 09:37 |
| schestowitz | The rules there might be different | Apr 12 09:37 |
| oiaohm | How much do you think it costs to develop a OS. | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | The only way they 'control' leaks is by dividing | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | This costs in terms of quality | Apr 12 09:38 |
| oiaohm | Remember UNIX's useless to sell at 3000 dollars a copy to recovery development costs. | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | The WSJ confirmed that one employee will be given just one part of the system | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | No access to other parts | Apr 12 09:38 |
| oiaohm | MS under cut now they are paying. | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | So they can't integrate properly | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | That's why Longhorn died when WSJ wrote about it | Apr 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | "Code spaghetti" | Apr 12 09:38 |
| DaemonFC | oh that's not important, if you sell tens or hundreds of millions of copies of it at hundreds of dollars for the cost of a CD and a box, you can make any costs up | Apr 12 09:39 |
| oiaohm | Remember Vista development costs were more than what it costs to go to the moon. | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | BS | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | That's what they say | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | It makes people value it | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | Perceived value | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | They said 6 billiob | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | They count also Longhorn which was trashed | Apr 12 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | And at least the astronauts got to play golf. | Apr 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | And these numbers are as made up as the MPAA's | Apr 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Or the BSA (they hire firms to cook the numbers) | Apr 12 09:40 |
| oiaohm | Also ms has to pay patents on every copy sold. | Apr 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, that too | Apr 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Which is why, as we mentioned days ago, the 'piracy' issue is serious | Apr 12 09:40 |
| oiaohm | XP in netbooks is basically zero profit. | Apr 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft can lose per copy | Apr 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | So when people pay zilch for Windows, Microsoft can be held liable for the costs of the patents involved. | Apr 12 09:41 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: assuming only that engineers who maintain XP cost nothing | Apr 12 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | Hmmm, I never thought of that. If Microsoft is giving XP away free to dump it onto netbooks, but still have to pay to license things like MPEG by the copy, they can lose money. | Apr 12 09:41 |
| oiaohm | Currently its 25 dollars. | Apr 12 09:41 |
| schestowitz | If you sell something at a $5 margin, then you need to cut engineers too. Simple situation. | Apr 12 09:41 |
| oiaohm | for XP what is basically break even on patents. | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: less than that | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | $5 in China | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | From a fairly reliable source | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | I saw $3 and $4 in other places | Apr 12 09:42 |
| oiaohm | Yep less than the cost of patents. | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | They assemble these in China | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | They get it for $5 as a drop-in | Apr 12 09:42 |
| oiaohm | So MS is bleeding money. | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | The OEMs are told to parrot other numbers | Apr 12 09:42 |
| oiaohm | Fighting Linux. | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft DOES not want people to know the real price | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | It devalues the OS | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | Like selling a fancy meal for $5 | Apr 12 09:42 |
| schestowitz | Would you come the following week and pay $150 for the same meal? | Apr 12 09:43 |
| oiaohm | Yep basically -20 | Apr 12 09:43 |
| oiaohm | MS cannot aford to sell windows for 0 dollars. | Apr 12 09:43 |
| schestowitz | It's a marketing technique | Apr 12 09:43 |
| schestowitz | Put high price tag | Apr 12 09:43 |
| schestowitz | Make it look like a margain | Apr 12 09:43 |
| oiaohm | It called offseting. | Apr 12 09:43 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft wants people to think that OEMs pay $200 for Windows | Apr 12 09:43 |
| schestowitz | And any low cost of the machine is then "magic" | Apr 12 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Reduced magically by 50%. Shopping channels harness this psychological technique pretty well. | Apr 12 09:44 |
| schestowitz | People love to say what their stuff is worth | Apr 12 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Not what they paid | Apr 12 09:44 |
| oiaohm | How much is it costing to develop windows 7. | Apr 12 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: My mom is in the market for a netbook | Apr 12 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Like, "my iPhone is worth $600" | Apr 12 09:45 |
| oiaohm | Because that is also eating into the profit market. | Apr 12 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | I was thinking a Dell Mini with Ubuntu? | Apr 12 09:45 |
| schestowitz | [but... I bought it in eBay for $200... SHEESH] | Apr 12 09:45 |
| oiaohm | Apple still made a profit at tht. | Apr 12 09:45 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: these are good | Apr 12 09:45 |
| oiaohm | that. | Apr 12 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | Heh, my dad still uses OpenSuse | Apr 12 09:45 |
| schestowitz | wispy from this channel bought one for her mom | Apr 12 09:45 |
| schestowitz | She loves it | Apr 12 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | he got used to it before the MS deal, back when they were good | Apr 12 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | *sigh* | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Microsoft has alreadt admitted netbook loss | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | They know it would be worse if Linux was sold | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Linux sold =$0 to Microsoft | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Windows sold =$0 to Microsoft | Apr 12 09:46 |
| oiaohm | They fear Linux will spreed up market. | Apr 12 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: He had all his partitions in ReiserFS when a hard disk crashed | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Windows sold = more market share to Microsoft | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Linux sold = less market share to Microsoft | Apr 12 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | it wasn't fun trying to recover his data | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Simple equation | Apr 12 09:46 |
| schestowitz | They talked about it internally | Apr 12 09:46 |
| oiaohm | Reiserfs is evil. | Apr 12 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | he got a new hard drive for it, I formatted it in XFS | Apr 12 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | which is what I use | Apr 12 09:47 |
| schestowitz | "under NO circumstance lose against Linux": http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/14... | Apr 12 09:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 12 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | Reiser is a son of a bitch to try to recover | Apr 12 09:47 |
| schestowitz | The cost (to MSFT) is the margins | Apr 12 09:47 |
| oiaohm | Yet by following that they are breaking the bank. | Apr 12 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Devaluation of stuff... like drugs going generic | Apr 12 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | and if you try to rebuild the file system structure it can cause even more corruption | Apr 12 09:48 |
| oiaohm | I do data recovery DaemonFC | Apr 12 09:48 |
| schestowitz | The pharma cartel is being boosted by Melenda and Pearly by the way | Apr 12 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Very evil stuff | Apr 12 09:48 |
| oiaohm | I have only had to do 60 raiserfs systems so far. | Apr 12 09:48 |
| schestowitz | They put price tag on health and then use taxpayers to pay for i | Apr 12 09:48 |
| schestowitz | *it | Apr 12 09:48 |
| oiaohm | I would take ext any day over it. | Apr 12 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I got used to XFS years ago | Apr 12 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | it can toss around monster files like nothing | Apr 12 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | love it | Apr 12 09:49 |
| oiaohm | I have had borked XFS | Apr 12 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | 2.6.30 just got 61 patches relating to XFS | Apr 12 09:49 |
| oiaohm | To be correct there is not a single filesystem I have not had borked yet. | Apr 12 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's more patches than in the last 20 kernel releases put together | Apr 12 09:50 |
| oiaohm | ZFS borked is hell. | Apr 12 09:50 |
| oiaohm | Makes reiserfs look simple. | Apr 12 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | meh, if it's on a hard disk, don't trust it | Apr 12 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | XFS is a fairly good balance of everything | Apr 12 09:50 |
| oiaohm | Lack of compression let XFS down. | Apr 12 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | I don't need that | Apr 12 09:51 |
| oiaohm | Does become important when people are copying large files between drives. | Apr 12 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | XFS has tremendously good performance in most cases | Apr 12 09:51 |
| oiaohm | So it can happen quicker. | Apr 12 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | deleting tons of small files can be a problem | Apr 12 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | but that's the only thing I've ran into really | Apr 12 09:51 |
| oiaohm | Some of the patches in 2.6.30 will fix that up. | Apr 12 09:52 |
| oiaohm | Part of the problem with small files deleting is a locking issue. | Apr 12 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, side effect of the changes to the kernel because they care about Ext4 | Apr 12 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | and XFS is being patched up to use the same facilities | Apr 12 09:52 |
| oiaohm | Really not. | Apr 12 09:52 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel is having a massive internal clean up. | Apr 12 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | XFS used to have to use an ioctl in the XFS driver to preallocate | Apr 12 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | for example | Apr 12 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | now there's one in the kernel for Ext4 or any file system that does that | Apr 12 09:53 |
| oiaohm | ioctl number is the same. | Apr 12 09:53 |
| oiaohm | Just renamed to a generic name. | Apr 12 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | ahhh | Apr 12 09:53 |
| oiaohm | Since XFS Ext4 and Btrfs will use it. | Apr 12 09:54 |
| oiaohm | And hopefully more. | Apr 12 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, XFS is less tempting with Ext4 available | Apr 12 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | but it's been debugged better, and it still has a few nice things Ext4 doesn't | Apr 12 09:54 |
| oiaohm | Ext4 has extents. | Apr 12 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, there's that | Apr 12 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | but if you upgrade an ext3 fs you need to run e4defrag | Apr 12 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | and that's not included with e2fsprogs yet | Apr 12 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | so most of your files will still be in the old format | Apr 12 09:55 |
| oiaohm | There is a way to run e4defrag from a proc call. | Apr 12 09:55 |
| oiaohm | Yes cat 1 > <rightfile> | Apr 12 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | once e4defrag is out, upgrading from ext3 will make sense | Apr 12 09:56 |
| oiaohm | the defrager is really in the kernel. | Apr 12 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | oh? | Apr 12 09:56 |
| oiaohm | ext4 has online defraging. | Apr 12 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | so does XFS | Apr 12 09:56 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Apr 12 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | through xfs_fsr | Apr 12 09:57 |
| oiaohm | Basically all e4defrag does is push the right kernel switch. | Apr 12 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 12 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | so you can use it without having e4defrag? | Apr 12 09:57 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 12 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | how do you make it make a pass over every file on the disk? | Apr 12 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | that's worth posting somewhere | Apr 12 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, some of the changes in 2.6.30 sometimes make my system unstable after resume from S3 | Apr 12 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | one build will freeze up after a while, the next build won't | Apr 12 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | it's been off and on | Apr 12 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.30-rc1-git5-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Apr 11 23:03:42 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux | Apr 12 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | haven't tried it with this one yet | Apr 12 10:01 |
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| oiaohm | They are working on that s3 issue. | Apr 12 10:03 |
| oiaohm | Its preempt releated. | Apr 12 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | figures | Apr 12 10:03 |
| oiaohm | Ie section that should not be preempted is being. | Apr 12 10:03 |
| oiaohm | does not only effect s3 | Apr 12 10:04 |
| oiaohm | KVM had a nasty. | Apr 12 10:04 |
| oiaohm | Left CPU in a undefined state. | Apr 12 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | just preempt | Apr 12 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | or is it a RCU preempt issue? | Apr 12 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | I think RCU preempt has been known to cause more problems, right? | Apr 12 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | that's why it is separate setting I think | Apr 12 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | (could be wrong) | Apr 12 10:09 |
| schestowitz | When people say Microsoft is good for the US, show em this: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/... | Apr 12 10:13 |
| oiaohm | preempt was the kvm issue. | Apr 12 10:13 |
| oiaohm | section was not marked not be be preempted. | Apr 12 10:14 |
| oiaohm | Section that is setting the cpu from now on settings for emulation. | Apr 12 10:14 |
| oiaohm | Not a good thing ever to preempt. | Apr 12 10:14 |
| oiaohm | Also you would have noticed that XFS frease and thaw has now moved out of XFS to a generic filesystem feature. | Apr 12 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/200... | Apr 12 10:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/04/new_pc_ba... | Apr 12 10:40 |
| schestowitz | The angle on the Yahoo! story which the press somehow misses: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... | Apr 12 10:51 |
| MinceR | j0 | Apr 12 11:01 |
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| oiaohm | Yep windows seven is screwed. | Apr 12 11:19 |
| schestowitz | Not yet | Apr 12 11:19 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't exist | Apr 12 11:19 |
| schestowitz | It's marketing thing | Apr 12 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Its screwed. | Apr 12 11:19 |
| schestowitz | And it floats on torrent for COMPUTER ENTHUSIASTS ONLY to use | Apr 12 11:19 |
| oiaohm | If they don't fix the NTFS driver. | Apr 12 11:20 |
| oiaohm | It screwed truly. | Apr 12 11:20 |
| oiaohm | NTFS driver was tried to speed up in windows 7 its now data loss central. | Apr 12 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they'll change before release? | Apr 12 11:22 |
| schestowitz | There is lots they can do to spread coverage of it being 'thin' | Apr 12 11:22 |
| schestowitz | Change FS parameters like latencies for quick boot, remove DRM temporarily, etc. | Apr 12 11:22 |
| schestowitz | I heard that RC (not public) is worse than that touted beta | Apr 12 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Any form of non planed shutdown on NTFS under Windows 7 will result in damaged filesystem. | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Which means they may have cooked something | Apr 12 11:23 |
| oiaohm | I have the RC | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Ahh... | Apr 12 11:23 |
| MinceR | they're copying ext4 now | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | But they say it leaked | Apr 12 11:23 |
| MinceR | ;) | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Which I thought was a Microsoft lie | Apr 12 11:23 |
| oiaohm | No legally have it. | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | To create sense of (artificial) scarcity | Apr 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | They must give devs the impression that this one will succeed | Apr 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Chicken and eggs | Apr 12 11:24 |
| oiaohm | What happens when you know a MS platuim partner. | Apr 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | If Vista7 is seen as DoA, then it WILL be | Apr 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Because it would lack compatibility | Apr 12 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Gave it to me for data recoverry assessment. | Apr 12 11:24 |
| oiaohm | As you can guess the report was not good. | Apr 12 11:25 |
| oiaohm | MinceR worse than ext4 fault. | Apr 12 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Really ext4 fault is nothing major. | Apr 12 11:26 |
| MinceR | i know, i was joking | Apr 12 11:26 |
| MinceR | what's the ntfs fault? | Apr 12 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Complete obleteration of the MFT section of NTFS. | Apr 12 11:27 |
| oiaohm | So basically sections of filesystem disappear. | Apr 12 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Cause by dumb ness. writing MFT interlink directions to blocks before all the data blocks of the MFT are written to disk. | Apr 12 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Also doing that to backup copy of MFT before the data is written to disk. | Apr 12 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Yes it saves a few clock cycles. | Apr 12 11:30 |
| oiaohm | NTFS in vista would only loss a directory or two or 3 or 4. | Apr 12 11:30 |
| trmanco | interesting -> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... | Apr 12 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: This time Microsoft's goons are posting comments on that video suggesting that I have "downs syndrome" | Apr 12 11:32 |
| DaemonFC | I removed that comment though | Apr 12 11:32 |
| DaemonFC | Can they think of nothing better to do? | Apr 12 11:33 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, what video? | Apr 12 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | Logitech webcam software will destroy Windows 7 | Apr 12 11:34 |
| trmanco | that's cool | Apr 12 11:35 |
| trmanco | nice feature btw | Apr 12 11:35 |
| trmanco | :-P | Apr 12 11:35 |
| oiaohm | There is better. | Apr 12 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Try installing nortons. | Apr 12 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | hah | Apr 12 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | no thanks | Apr 12 11:36 |
| oiaohm | In windows 7 | Apr 12 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | last time I bought a Norton product was System Works '98 | Apr 12 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | its extensions to the Windows shell fucked Windows 98 beyond repair | Apr 12 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | and I took it back to Walmart and bitched til they refunded it | Apr 12 11:37 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, where can I see that in action, the driver thing | Apr 12 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | I caught a picture of what happens every time you reboot | Apr 12 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | it never loads explorer | Apr 12 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | but I got a picture of my monitor displaying the error | Apr 12 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://img391.imageshack.us/img3... | Apr 12 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically Windows 7 is less secure than XP. | Apr 12 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Normal user cannot not screw up XP login screen completely. | Apr 12 11:39 |
| trmanco | haha | Apr 12 11:42 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and pre-vista? | Apr 12 11:44 |
| MinceR | i mean ntfs | Apr 12 11:44 |
| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/wa... | Apr 12 11:46 |
| trmanco | hehe | Apr 12 11:46 |
| schestowitz | Netscraft numbers are junk: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... | Apr 12 11:47 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: identi.ca seems broken | Apr 12 11:47 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, working here for now | Apr 12 11:47 |
| schestowitz | Oh, it's back now | Apr 12 11:47 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I heard that FUD before | Apr 12 11:48 |
| schestowitz | The suggestion of atrophy of one sort | Apr 12 11:49 |
| schestowitz | It can be all sort of things, like accusation of 'transgendered', gay, child molester, mentally ill, etc. | Apr 12 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | I may just disable comments | Apr 12 11:49 |
| schestowitz | The shills tried all the above against me cause they can't fight the messages | Apr 12 11:50 |
| schestowitz | ""Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency" --Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/... > | Apr 12 11:51 |
| schestowitz | "We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for competitors' technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time." --Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-cont... > | Apr 12 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm turning comment moderation on | Apr 12 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | that way I can stop their attacks from ever showing | Apr 12 11:52 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, is that video yours? | Apr 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: you're articulate, so they try to characterise this as a flaw | Apr 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | very typical | Apr 12 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | trmanco? | Apr 12 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | which one? | Apr 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Some idiots used to say that because I am able to post at a rapid pace, then I must be mentally challenged: -) | Apr 12 11:52 |
| trmanco | this one -> http://www.youtube.com/wa... | Apr 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, it's him | Apr 12 11:53 |
| trmanco | ah, neat | Apr 12 11:53 |
| schestowitz | It made the front page of FSDaily a moment ago | Apr 12 11:53 |
| schestowitz | We'll see how far it goes. Some people twit it too | Apr 12 11:54 |
| trmanco | genius -> http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/... | Apr 12 11:55 |
| trmanco | hahah | Apr 12 11:55 |
| trmanco | something is wrong with identi.ca | Apr 12 11:57 |
| trmanco | it's giving me 500 errors at send message | Apr 12 11:57 |
| MinceR | Fail Whale Emulation Enabled! | Apr 12 11:57 |
| trmanco | http://test.portertech.org... | Apr 12 11:59 |
| trmanco | MinceR, it's just at send message, I can retrieve them perfectly | Apr 12 11:59 |
| MinceR | ic | Apr 12 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I made a video explaining why ratings are turned off | Apr 12 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 12 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 12 12:00 |
| trmanco | it works again | Apr 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, identica's bas behaviour is erratic and random. | Apr 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Some PHP errors too | Apr 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Fatal error: Call to undefined function xmlrpc_encode_request() in /var/www/identi.ca/plugins/LinkbackPlugin.php on line 124 | Apr 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: ignore them | Apr 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | They try to embarrass and humiliate critics. Oldest trick in the book. | Apr 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?q=s... | Apr 12 12:02 |
| trmanco | identi.ca is taking an easter break | Apr 12 12:04 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Apr 12 12:10 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna take a break myself. Back in a few hours, it's sunny outside.. | Apr 12 12:10 |
| trmanco | ok | Apr 12 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJcHHqfLeQ | Apr 12 12:11 |
| trmanco | ;) | Apr 12 12:13 |
| trmanco | they are starting to attack you like they do with schestowitz | Apr 12 12:13 |
| MinceR | it would have been better as text | Apr 12 12:17 |
| trmanco | MinceR, can't play it? | Apr 12 12:18 |
| MinceR | i could | Apr 12 12:18 |
| trmanco | ah | Apr 12 12:18 |
| MinceR | but it took a lot more time this way | Apr 12 12:18 |
| MinceR | speech is slower than text :) | Apr 12 12:19 |
| trmanco | yep | Apr 12 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Apr 12 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | Apr 12 12:19 |
| trmanco | lol | Apr 12 12:22 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 12 12:22 |
| DaemonFC | I liked the "Matrix on Windows XP" one better | Apr 12 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | they have some funny stuff | Apr 12 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: You know why they names it XP right? | Apr 12 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | tilt your head to the left | Apr 12 12:24 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 12 12:24 |
| MinceR | i've heard that one | Apr 12 12:24 |
| PetoKraus | hmm | Apr 12 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watc... | Apr 12 12:26 |
| PetoKraus | i'm looking at the Australian censored sites list | Apr 12 12:26 |
| PetoKraus | at wikileaks | Apr 12 12:26 |
| PetoKraus | it's... inspiring. | Apr 12 12:26 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-131-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 12 12:35 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm! | Apr 12 12:36 |
| oiaohm | spammers will spam anything http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/4/12/23 | Apr 12 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Apr 12 12:36 |
| _Hicham_ | have u been spammed before oiaohm? | Apr 12 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes | Apr 12 12:36 |
| oiaohm | I have also generated a 1 tb + spam into a email account before showing a server error. | Apr 12 12:37 |
| _Hicham_ | is there any effective spam filter? | Apr 12 12:37 |
| oiaohm | there is no such thing as a 100 percent effective filter. | Apr 12 12:38 |
| oiaohm | spamassisian and its releation do a good job. | Apr 12 12:38 |
| _Hicham_ | what about bayesian ones? | Apr 12 12:38 |
| oiaohm | http://wiki.apache.org/spam... | Apr 12 12:39 |
| oiaohm | So | Apr 12 12:40 |
| MinceR | SpamAssassin with score BAYES_99 5 | Apr 12 12:40 |
| MinceR | is pretty good | Apr 12 12:40 |
| MinceR | once you train the bayesian filter, of course | Apr 12 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Spamassassin is one of the oldest main filtering techs. | Apr 12 12:41 |
| oiaohm | it does not just depend on one trick _Hicham_ | Apr 12 12:42 |
| oiaohm | It has black lists white lists Bayesin. | Apr 12 12:42 |
| oiaohm | http://wiki.apache.org/spamas... Trust paths | Apr 12 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Basically single trick against spam is usless. | Apr 12 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | so u have to mix filters to be effective? | Apr 12 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | effective/efficient | Apr 12 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Trust path is highly effective. | Apr 12 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Since it cuts out fake addresses. | Apr 12 12:46 |
| oiaohm | yet then you get people who have got themselves infected. | Apr 12 12:47 |
| oiaohm | So mail coming on a valid path and they are on the whitelist. | Apr 12 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | Actually the funny thing about arguing with me over who is at fault in Windows 7 is that you're wrong either way, if it's something in the kernel, then it's signed by Microsoft, making it a Windows bug, and if it's something outside the kernel that makes the kernel screw up, it's a Windows bug, because the kernel has veto power. -Me | Apr 12 12:47 |
