09.18.07

Gemini version available ♊︎

Moonlight a Second-class Citizen in a WindowSilverLight Wide Web

Posted in Interoperability, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, Open XML at 5:38 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

A new article from Microsoft’s own press ought to remind us why Moonlight was a bad idea, just like Novell’s attempted support for OOXML.

Rather than step up and produce a Linux version of Silverlight, Microsoft is taking a halfway step. It will provide technical guidance — and even support — to Miguel de Icaza and the rest of the Novell-hosted Mono team as they work to create Silverlight on Unix….

But as smart as the developers on the Mono team are, and they are very bright, it’s hard to see how Silverlight on Linux will avoid the fate of COM on Unix-lagging behind the Windows version.

Yet again, Novell is giving Microsoft the pleasure of saying that their technologies (e.g. Silverlight, OOXML) are widely supported (never mind the disturbing notion of “licensed”) and include Linux, but:

  1. The implementations are poor
  2. The implementations depends on a single company
  3. The implementations can be obtained from a single company (Novell)
  4. The rules can change at any time (for example, elements can be added with a Draconian licence bound to them)
  5. The implementations give developers false expectations about compatibility (e.g. Windows-only DRM)
  6. The implementations assist a hijack of de facto standards, which can and will be extended

There are more issues to think about, but the take-home message is that when a burglar approaches the window, you don’t invite the burglar to enter the house. You don’t offer the burglar some tea and cookies, either.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

6 Comments

  1. Anon said,

    September 21, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Gravatar

    Wow… how about getting your facts straight next time you decide to write a post?

    1. Have you even looked at the code? How would you know?

    2. It is LGPL, you know…

    3. Well, they /are/ the ones writing it…

    4. IIRC, MS and Novell’s Mono team have a contract stating that MS will continue to provide test suites and technical guidance for Moonlight

    5. Windows-only DRM?Huh? Microsoft is providing not only the codecs but also the DRM to Moonlight for use on Linux.

    6. So? If you don’t let people/companies extend things, we’d still be living in caves, clubbing our dinner before lugging it back.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 21, 2007 at 12:22 pm

    Gravatar

    > 1. Have you even looked at the code? How would you know?

    You can’t even look at all the code. Codecs are proprietary.

    > 2. It is LGPL, you know…

    For now. It can be later extended to contain other components under a different licence (or not contain them at all). Microsoft calls the shots.

    > 4. IIRC, MS and Novell’s Mono team have a contract
    > stating that MS will continue to provide test suites and
    > technical guidance for Moonlight

    Why doesn’t Microsoft simply support its own technology like it support Macs (partially, of course, because Mono is tied to some Windows services)?

    > 5. Windows-only DRM?Huh? Microsoft is providing not only the
    > codecs but also the DRM to Moonlight for use on Linux.

    Without delving into the moral issues of DRM, what happens when/if Novell is no longer there? There is no access to the source code.

    > 6. So? If you don’t let people/companies extend things, we’d
    > still be living in caves, clubbing our dinner before lugging it back.

    Things are to be developed in consortia and be made workable through standards and interfaces, not integration and binary ‘donations’. Some of Microsoft’s history on standards is very telling. Silverlight is no exception.

  3. Anon said,

    September 21, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Gravatar

    >You can’t even look at all the code. Codecs are proprietary.

    That’s not Novell’s fault.

    > For now. It can be later extended to contain other components under a different
    > licence (or not contain them at all). Microsoft calls the shots.

    Microsoft will be releasing their Silverlight controls as open source so that Moonlight can use them as well. Seems to me that Microsoft is being quite charitable here.

    > Why doesn’t Microsoft simply support its own technology like it support Macs
    > (partially, of course, because Mono is tied to some Windows services)?

    Are you saying you’d be “happy as a pig in sh!t” if Microsoft had been the one to provide you with a proprietary Linux version of Silverlight? This would somehow be better than an open source Moonlight? How?

    IMHO, you are just fishing for reasons to complain.

    > Without delving into the moral issues of DRM, what happens when/if Novell is
    > no longer there? There is no access to the source code.

    No source code for what? Moonlight is open source… it’s all out there (except for the codecs/DRM, but you could just write a drop-in replacement). The codecs/DRM aren’t even the hardest parts of implementing Silverlight.

    > Things are to be developed in consortia and be made workable through
    > standards and interfaces, not integration and binary ‘donations’. Some of
    > Microsoft’s history on standards is very telling. Silverlight is no exception.

    Microsoft produced Silverlight because there was no consortium working on designing something that solved the needs. Who’s fault is that? Not Microsoft’s. Not Novell’s.

  4. Mukotar said,

    December 6, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    Gravatar

    This website is a joke! Haven’t seen so much paranoia and defiance to reason for a while.. I’m off for good.. after 10 minutes – I’ve had enough.. Have a nice time throwing your time down the drain chumps…
    In being so pro Open source you actually close linux to innovation and technologies.. Let the users choose what and how they want to use.. not the developers! .. In a way that’s what makes this site sound like another Microsoft of open source.. “We know what’s best for you”. No. You don’t. Every user knows for himself. I think Novell is wrong to a degree for coupling with MS, but they deliver much to open source!
    Look at many desktop improvements both for kde and gnome.. done by Novell developers..
    So.. what I want to say is .. this site makes me sick..
    Saying Novell sucks is easy.. matching their contribution to open source is hard.
    Have a nice day and hello from Croatia to all reasonable visitors!

  5. Russian Hacker said,

    September 20, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Gravatar

    1) This site sucks more than anything.

    2) Its apparent that you’re running this site only for adsense clicks. Or to attract advertisers which you’ve failed to do.

    3) There are many other “better” niches that can earn you more advertising bucks.

    4) Visit http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

    5) Get a life.

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 20, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    Gravatar

    Earlier today I asked Shane about dropping the ads, which would mean we have to pay the hosting bills out of our own pockets, in addition to running this site for no profit or gain.

    Why the insults and lies, “Russian Hacker”?

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. Jim Zemlin's Wife is Funded by Puppies (Microsoft)

    Jim Zemlin — like his wife — is bagging millions from Microsoft, but that’s clearly a conflict of interest for the Linux Foundation



  2. Links 18/05/2022: More Defections From WordPress to Gemini

    Links for the day



  3. Links 18/05/2022: PikaScript and cURL's Annual User Survey

    Links for the day



  4. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, May 17, 2022

    IRC logs for Tuesday, May 17, 2022



  5. Phoronix: Microsoft and Phoronix Sponsor (and Close Microsoft Partner) AMD All Over the Place

    When you’re taking massive 'gifts' from AMD (and also some from Microsoft) maybe it’s not surprising that editorial decisions change somewhat…



  6. EPO Has No F-ing Oversight

    Earlier today SUEPO mentioned this new article demonstrating that EPO President António Campinos can very obviously and blatantly violate the Code of Conduct of the Office without facing any consequences; there are translations too, so the report is now available in four languages



  7. [Meme] Linux-Rejecting Foundation

    The Linux Foundation never really leads by example; by default, it uses proprietary software



  8. Linux Foundation Almost Never uses Open Source

    The Linux Foundation uses proprietary software (look where they hire and take money from) and be sure they're probably not even aware of it



  9. Links 17/05/2022: Many More Games on GNU/Linux, YaST Development Report

    Links for the day



  10. Links 17/05/2022: Rocky Linux 8.6 and Budgie Desktop in Fedora

    Links for the day



  11. Patent Examiners Rising Up Against EPO Abuse

    Unhappy with the law-breaking autocracy (the EPO‘s management breaks the law as a matter of routine), fast-deteriorating working conditions and rapidly-decreasing quality of work (or lack of compliance with the law), workers have escalated further, topping off strikes and industrial actions with a large-scale petition



  12. [Meme] What Managers (Really) Mean by Acting Professionally

    The myth of 'professionalism' needs to die along with the façade of conformity as prerequisite for employment (Linus Torvalds can work just fine in a bathrobe in his own home)



  13. Internal Poll: 93% of European Patent Office (EPO) Workers Are Unhappy With the EPO

    On top of strike/s and industrial action/s there are now also petitions; at the EPO, almost all staff is "disgruntled" because of utterly corrupt and defunct leadership



  14. Links 17/05/2022: OpenSUSE Leap 15.4 Release Candidate

    Links for the day



  15. IRC Proceedings: Monday, May 16, 2022

    IRC logs for Monday, May 16, 2022



  16. Links 16/05/2022: FreeBSD 13.1 and Inkscape 1.2 Released

    Links for the day



  17. Archiving Latest Posts in Geminispace (Like a Dated Web Directory But for Gemini)

    Earlier today we saw several more people crossing over from the World Wide Web to Gemini; we're trying to make a decent aggregator and archive for the rapidly-expanding Geminispace, which will soon have 2,500 capsules that are known to Lupa alone



  18. Microsoft Vidal Does Not Want to Listen (USPTO is Just for Megacorporations)

    Microsoft Vidal knows her real bosses. They’re international corporations (multinationals like Microsoft), not American people.



  19. Links 16/05/2022: China Advances on GNU/Linux and Maui 2.1.2 is Out

    Links for the day



  20. Jim Zemlin: Chief Revenue Officer in 'Linux' Seat-Selling Foundation

    Board seats in the Linux Foundation are basically a product on sale, based internal documents



  21. Reminder: Linux Foundation's Last IRS Filing is Very Old (Same Year the CFO Left)

    People really need to ask the Linux Foundation, directly, why its filings are years behind; this seems like a sensitive subject



  22. Linux Foundation Does Not Speak for GNU/Linux Users

    There's a serious problem in the "Linux" world as the so-called 'Linux' Foundation claims to speak for us (the GNU/Linux community) while in fact speaking against us (on the payroll of those looking to extinguish us)



  23. IBM's Lennart Poettering on Breaking Software for Pseudo Novelty

    Recently-uploaded ELCE 2011 clip shows a panel with Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, Thomas Gleixner, Paul McKenney, and Lennart Poettering (relevant to novelty or perceived novelty that mostly degrades the experience of longtime users, e.g. Wayland and systemd)



  24. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 15, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, May 15, 2022



  25. Links 15/05/2022: Linux 5.18 RC7 and Calls for More Mass Surveillance

    Links for the day



  26. Audio: Mark Shuttleworth Marketed to Young Males, With Sexy Pictures

    The Web is rotting away, old links become broken links within months or years, so I’ve decided to encode a 3-minute segment of the whole as Ogg



  27. What a Difference Half a Decade Makes (When Linux Foundation is 'Having Fun')

    Media shaming campaigns may have taken their toll on the founder of Linux, who is now bossed by someone who rejects Linux and is married to a Microsoft booster. Like Richard Stallman under FSF guidance (and conditions for return, mostly for fear of further media assaults and attack dogs), he has become a more publicity-shy and private person. The Linux Foundation has in effect reduced the founder of what it’s called after (Linux) into a weekly release manager and mascot, whose brand it is gradually diluting/cheapening.



  28. Links 15/05/2022: GNU libiconv 1.17

    Links for the day



  29. [Meme] Unitary Patent and Unified Patent Court (UPC) Cannot Be Reconciled With the Law

    Unitary Patent and Unified Patent Court (UPC)? Impossible. But Team UPC counts on an endless torrent of fake news managing to convince you (and more importantly politicians) otherwise.



  30. Even Team Battistelli is Sometimes Admitting -- Out in Public! -- That Unified Patent Court (UPC) is Neither Legal Nor Desirable

    Daniel X. Thomas and other people who are “too old to punish” (consequences to their career profoundly minimised owing to seniority) are among those who push back against the Unitary Patent or Unified Patent Court (UPC); any sane person — not a career-climbing litigation zealot — can identify the pertinent facts and realise that what’s going on here is an injustice of unprecedented proportions in the patent discipline


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts