04.18.08
Gemini version available ♊︎Microsoft Insists on Receiving Payments for OOXML Use, Implementation
OOXML: open as in “open for negotiation on patent tax tariff”
The SFLC has already informed us all that OOXML is clearly incompatible with the GNU GPL. But Microsoft seems to have just picked itself another smaller target (it’s a pattern that we last mentioned days ago). It insulted the intelligence of the Groklaw crowd with some rude remarks on this issue. Pamela has just responded:
I wrote yesterday that RAND terms can be discriminatory, and that in fact due to the Microsoft OSP, OOXML is discriminatory against the GPL and Open Source licenses, despite being made available under RAND terms. Microsoft’s Jason Matusow responded with a blog entry suggesting I need to bone up on standards and licenses. Why Microsoft folks can’t be polite is a mystery to me, but I persist in responding with decency. He thought it would be helpful to hear from lawyers on the subject. So, I did some research for him, and I find that there are quite a number of lawyers who agree with me.
So here you are, Jason: what is wrong with RAND from folks whose credentials you will respect. They are not radical or extreme, and neither is Groklaw, as you will see. The problem, rather, is that Microsoft is wishing that time would stand still for it, and that the old, proprietary software model were all that there was in the world. However, like the music industry, Microsoft — and standards bodies — now have to cope with the new and modern software development model and licenses that foster and underpin it, not just the old-fashioned, closed, and patent-licensed model that Microsoft represents. And isn’t it you at Microsoft, and your friends at CompTIA, who have told the governments of the world that one business model should not be favored over any other? How much less should a standard?
Since Jason Matusow made it personal, let’s make a thing or two clear. Matusow seems like an unpleasant character [1, 2] for the lies he told in the past and also for defending Microsoft’s ‘aggressive’ (to use the gentlest of words) push for OOXML. It’s hard to understand why Microsoft continues to bully and to corrupt governments with lobbyists at a time when it has so much to lose.
You will probably be pleased (or relived) to hear that OpenOffice.org 3.0 has just been officially switched over to the LGPLv3, which addresses possible software patent issues. This was actually announced over a month ago, but changed have only just been implemented. Those who receive the nightly build will probably see the modifications that have been applied.
On a regular basis we provide developer snapshots to gather feedback on features and fixes that have been implemented on the way to OpenOffice.org 3.0.
Going back to patents in a standard, OOXML is not the only such problem. Yesterday we exemplified this problem using 4G technology. Something must change and in the mean time OOXML must be shunned by FOSS users and developers alike.
As ugly secrets and truths about ISO begin to come loose, there’s hope that OOXML will get trashed. Without the many corruptions, it would never have stood a chance of joining an existing standard that is a real one (ODF) as well as widely supported by the entire industry, as opposed to a single highly abusive company, a spoiled brat. █
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cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:19 am
In the heading to your article you mention that M$ demands payment for the use of the OOXML-standard. I’m sorry, but I’ve managed to read through your article and couldn’t find any details about how much money for what usage actually is demanded. To put it quite clearly, I think that again you claim something in the sensationalist title that just isn’t true.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:42 am
You must not have followed the situation then. In order to use OOXML technology you need to either be licensed or legally covered, e.g. by the OSP. However, the OSP excludes the GPL, by design.
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:46 am
What PAYMENTS for OOXM USE do I have to make then? How much money does Microsoft demand from me?
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:48 am
About the GPL; in case you don’t know, OpenOffice 3 which – as you said – is licensed under the GPL v3 will support OOXML.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:47 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_ambush
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:51 am
FUD. This was addressed just two days ago.
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/16/ooxml-anger-odf-fud/
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:58 am
No FUD: http://www.oooninja.com/2008/03/openofficeorg-30-new-features.html
And how does this answer my question:
What PAYMENTS for OOXML USE do I have to make to Microsoft then for my usage of OOXML? How much money does Microsoft demand from me?
Just point me to the pricetag, go on!
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:14 am
See the article about patent ambush. They can try to extract money out of enterprise some time in the future. Can. Might.
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:26 am
That is not very convincing. With OpenOffice implementing it and it being an ISO-standard and all…
I guess this article’s title is just a tad too sensationalist for what it really contains.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:28 am
No, eet. You are just trying hard to heckle, that’s all.
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:36 am
You accusing me of being someone you obviously see unqualified to criticize you only indicates that you have run out of arguments in this discussion. Don’t expect me to tread on this path and let me be distracted from my point.
My point is: You are deliberately writing sensationalist nonsense. This is NOT what I expect from a self-appointed defener of freedom.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:39 am
So it’s you indeed (in a name outfit). The flagging starts.
cuss said,
April 18, 2008 at 6:55 am
So you have found a way, you think, to escape this discussion. Congratulations, you sad, sad individual.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
Victor Soliz said,
April 18, 2008 at 7:22 am
eet, dude, how could you still be defending MS, that’s unbelievable.
Of course Microsoft is charging for OOXML implementation, at least it charges Novell. So what other proof do you need?
LinuxIsFun said,
April 18, 2008 at 7:54 am
LOL pwned. Maybe they are coming from Redmond campus…
LinuxIsFun said,
April 18, 2008 at 7:55 am
LOL pwned. Maybe they are coming from Redmond campus…He might be the VP or the Product Manager for MS Office
stevetheFLY said,
April 18, 2008 at 11:24 am
Don’t get me wrong, I’m with you guys on freedom and so on – but this here just made you look kinda bad.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
stevetheFLY: 80.132.128.196
eet: 80.132.139.19
Victor Soliz said,
April 18, 2008 at 12:48 pm
What’s “this” ?
Victor Soliz said,
April 18, 2008 at 12:54 pm
In all seriousness, I think groklaw’s article is quite strong, and it will be difficult to try to debunk all what’s said there. So I doubt the content of this blog post made the site look bad. You could complaint about the title, but the thing is .. that’s the ultimate reason MS does this.
MS’ plan.
=====
* Charging users for Office, that’s easy. 1st instance in which MS gets money because of OOXML.
* Charging ‘competitors’ for the contributions MS does to aid “interoperability”, does this with Novell already , I am foreseeing it will happen with apple.
* Charging developers for trying to implement OOXML: get to accept it, a single dev is not going to implement 6000 pages of poor documentation, so what’s he going to do? He downloads MS’ library for handling OOXML file. Too bad it is .net, so money does go to MS from then.
In the future MS, is just gonna make sure every document you save in OOXML comes with its set of extensions that will require anybody wanting to open it with his app to pay them royalties. You can’t blame MS for that though since they kinda got the permission to do that from both ECMA and ISO.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 18, 2008 at 3:11 pm
@stevetheFLY: please clarify. Is it the flagging you object to? Do you know what type of person we are dealing with here? Following the URLs would be just a start.
ZiggyFish said,
April 18, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I’ve got a better response for cuss:
The history of Microsoft, has always been about the bottom line, making money (everything they can get there hands on, while shitting on the competition at the same time). OpenOffice.org is backed by Sun (if I remember correctly), and is a big player in the Open Source movement (which Microsoft sees as competition). So any payments that would go to Microsoft would have to come from Sun. Which Sun isn’t going to publicly state anytime soon.
The good news is that if Sun (or any company that is implementing OOXML) does at any point publicly disclose an amount that is not [url=http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease/faqs_isoiec29500.htm]reasonable or discriminatory[/url]. ISO will withdraw the standard.
stevetheFLY said,
April 19, 2008 at 8:24 am
No – i meant you looked like sielncing him. You didn’t reply, you just shuthim up. Looks real, real bad. Like he was right and you didn’t see another way to solve this.
Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.
stevetheFLY: 80.132.128.196
eet: 80.132.139.19
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 19, 2008 at 8:46 am
What do you know about this guy?
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/eet-strommael-gmx-net/
He has been harassing (personal attacks) not only the editors but also other readers, who found him obnoxious, rude and disruptive. They politely asked for action to be taken. He is the only person ever to have received this type of treatment, having made some very vile remarks comparing us even to Nazis, if I recall correctly (not quite so explicitly though).
Victor Soliz said,
April 19, 2008 at 4:18 pm
stevetheFLY: the guy is a troll and imho the site has been too benevolent on him, other blogs just delete posts altogether or don’t approve them.
Of all the guys that frequently make posts that are against the line of opinion for this blog, only eet is ‘silenced’ like this, the rest are made with respect and don’t have such history of just being lame and trying to divert attention so they aren’t.
mini said,
April 19, 2008 at 9:27 pm
@stevetheFLY
How would you treat the person you already answered with self-explanatory wikipedia article and one subsequently asks the same question, again and again…
Erdal Özgür said,
April 20, 2008 at 6:39 am
I think the problem as stevethefly has spoken to it is that we don know cuss =eet. Only we have y o u r word. What is it if you just say everybody who disagrees with you is to be this person and then kill him from the discussion. It looks very, very bad to me as a person who questions things.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 20, 2008 at 8:29 am
“cuss” uses the same IP address as “eet” (who nymshifted many times before and admitted this), he uses the same language, the same insults and there are other “cuss” threads (not just here) where it was stated and shown more clearly. It’s him.
Erdal Özgür said,
April 20, 2008 at 8:48 am
That does not satify my uneasines. IP s are dynamic.Coming form a country where free speech is not a tradition I don not sanctionate your behavior here. Good bye.
Roy Schestowitz said,
April 20, 2008 at 9:01 am
Feel free to check other conversations with ‘cuss’:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&q=site:boycottnovell.com+cuss
You’re not seeing the whole story.
By the way, use of identical addresses by two visitors is possible yet rare, and when both ‘separate’ users (nyms) from the same address are similarly abusive, have the same attitude and vocabulary (clear recurring patterns) and soon use Web proxies to enter the site, well…
Victor Soliz said,
April 22, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Erdal Özgür: You sound as if cuss wasn’t being trollish here, I disagree.