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IRC Log for June 7th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:05 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 07 01:53
ZiggyFish good morning Jun 07 01:53
tessier_ morning Jun 07 01:54
*ZiggyFish_laptop (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 07 02:32
*ZiggyFish has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jun 07 02:34
schestowitz OK, I’m back. Catching up. Welcome, zoobab. Jun 07 03:41
schestowitz PJ just wrote (about Acer): “Now if only they’d use a different distro, like any Debian flavor that has not done a deal with Microsoft, I’d buy one in a New York minute.” What distro will Acer use? I thiink it was using Ubuntu last year. Jun 07 04:17
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: I read about that the other day. Jun 07 04:31
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: can’t remember which distribution though Jun 07 04:31
schestowitz Me too, but did they… Jun 07 04:31
schestowitz Oh. Jun 07 04:31
schestowitz Well, you beat me to it Same here. PJ seems to suggest she knows the distro, but the article she cites says nothing about it., Jun 07 04:32
schestowitz Also found a while ago: “”We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft,” he said. “Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market.”” ( http://www.pcretailmag.com/… ) Jun 07 04:32
ZiggyFish_laptop just did a quick google, and http://www.linux-laptop.ne… may help Jun 07 04:32
schestowitz I see. But this product line should be new. Jun 07 04:33
schestowitz In Romania they did Linpus, which is good for average users. Jun 07 04:33
schestowitz I know this from Beranger. In Malaysia (or another part of Asia) they did Ubuntu… and other places too. Their CEO hares Vista with passion. Jun 07 04:34
ZiggyFish_laptop AcerXC5822. runs Ubuntu<http://www.geekzone.co.nz/fre… 15-JAN-2008 22:43 Jun 07 04:35
schestowitz January though. Jun 07 04:36
schestowitz SO what’s PJ on about. They wouldn’t do Xandros and I never saw them doing SuSE. Jun 07 04:36
ZiggyFish_laptop mm Jun 07 04:37
ZiggyFish_laptop http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06… – 3rd June 2008 12:34 GMT, but doesn’t specify, what distro though Jun 07 04:38
ZiggyFish_laptop give me a second, need to do more deeper research Jun 07 04:38
schestowitz It’s important to ensure that Ballnux never becomes a de facto choice. Acer’s new divorce could open the floodgates to more just as Dell’s opening to Linux (last year) led to almost every OEM doing the same. Taking the wind off the SLED sales is important. Jun 07 04:39
ZiggyFish_laptop Acer has just announced their new 8.9″ Aspire One ultraportable laptop. With a starting price of just $379, configurations include an Intel Atom processor, up to 1GB of RAM and either 8GB of flash storage or an 80GB hard drive as well as a choice between Linpus Linux Lite and Windows XP. Nothing here is out of the ordinary for this new class of laptops except its competitive price and that future iterations are planne Jun 07 04:40
ZiggyFish_laptop d with 3G data support—yes, your computer may finally replace your smartphone. Read on for more details: Jun 07 04:40
schestowitz Just in: another Microsoft product — dead. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3… According to Mary Jo, we’ll see more of that. Jun 07 04:41
schestowitz Good Jun 07 04:41
ZiggyFish_laptop what was that service about anyway Jun 07 04:42
schestowitz When is this from? Linpus is a derivatives of…? I’m not sure. Jun 07 04:42
ZiggyFish_laptop mm Jun 07 04:42
schestowitz Windows Live Expo. Never heard of it? Me neither. Well, probably won’t hear about it again. Jun 07 04:42
moparx Linpus GNU/Linux is a Fedora based desktop GNU/Linux distribution Jun 07 04:42
moparx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linpus Jun 07 04:42
ZiggyFish_laptop http://gizmodo.com/5012589/acer-aspire-one-al… – 9:22 AM on Tue Jun 3 2008 Jun 07 04:43
schestowitz Thanks, moparx Jun 07 04:43
moparx no problem :) Jun 07 04:44
schestowitz Microsoft Live appears to be collapsing. This is the 3rd service that will sleep with the fishes… in a matter of a fortnight. Jun 07 04:44
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: apparently their removeing some of the xbox live games too Jun 07 04:45
schestowitz Microsoft /NEEDS/ Live. It’s the future. It’s where it heading if it wants to keep up with Google and Linux clouds. Live Office has been a disaster for over a year (I have many links) and now the Icahn Bully is trying desperately to make a full takeover of Yahoo! Jun 07 04:45
ZiggyFish_laptop let me find a link Jun 07 04:46
schestowitz Yes, they do. Jun 07 04:46
schestowitz XBox and Zune have serious problems too. Jun 07 04:46
schestowitz Ballmer joked about them last month. Jun 07 04:46
schestowitz He called them “funny products” Jun 07 04:46
schestowitz XBox is already thrown off some shelves in some cities. Jun 07 04:47
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: is that because everyone laughs at them? Jun 07 04:47
schestowitz In India and reportedly in AU too (Microsoft tried to deny it) Jun 07 04:47
schestowitz No, Ballmer just said that they can’t figure out how to make money from these products. Like the Web division, these lose $billiobs. Jun 07 04:47
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: don’t know about Australia (never really looked). Jun 07 04:47
schestowitz Ending office monopoly is going for Microsoft’s jugular. Windows is already selling  for as little as $18, so they try to tax Linux. Jun 07 04:48
ZiggyFish_laptop http://chris.pirillo.com/20… Jun 07 04:48
schestowitz Apple is hardly a threat to Microsoft because they sell Office, they hold Apple shares and the prices they can compete with. There’s also cross-licensing. Jun 07 04:49
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: Something chris says I agree with. but a lot of the time. he is wrong Jun 07 04:50
schestowitz Yesterday Microsoft complained about the GUI (XBox Live) and there’s nothing new coming. In fact, last year it’s reported that about 15% (at the least) of the XBox workforce left the company (including the leader). Same goes for Zune and Vista’s key people depart also. Jun 07 04:50
ZiggyFish_laptop he’s a big Mac fan.  He’s had a few rants about Vista Jun 07 04:51
schestowitz I had an argument with Chris recently because he sort of refuses to believe that Microsoft deserved the Iowa fines. Jun 07 04:51
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: he is one of those people who aren’t open minded (but he thinks he is) Jun 07 04:52
schestowitz I don’t know him well enough. It’s a shame that he’s not a *NIX man Jun 07 04:53
schestowitz He tries though. He joined us in the wordpress developers list a few years back and he’s getting ‘into it’. Jun 07 04:53
ZiggyFish_laptop yeah. Jun 07 04:53
ZiggyFish_laptop Wine’s getting very close to 1.0 status Jun 07 04:54
ZiggyFish_laptop today released 1.0rc4 Jun 07 04:54
schestowitz Well, it’s a tagging bump, but not much more of a technical milestone. Jun 07 04:54
schestowitz Will they have 1..0rc49? You know, like the numbers they have had below 1.0? [sarcasm] Jun 07 04:55
ZiggyFish_laptop apparently they are planing on releasing it on it’s birthday Jun 07 04:55
schestowitz 15? Jun 07 04:55
ZiggyFish_laptop yeah, think so Jun 07 04:55
schestowitz Microsoft killed Corel Linux Jun 07 04:56
schestowitz I didn’t follow any of that at the time, but I’m learning what happened. Novell 0.9 Jun 07 04:56
ZiggyFish_laptop it’s one of my feeds, i get Jun 07 04:57
schestowitz Watch the bullies:  http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-… Jun 07 04:58
ZiggyFish_laptop Alexandre stated back in October 2007 that he knew of no 1.0 release blockers even then, and suggested we pick Wine’s 15th anniversary for the actual date. Depending on how you look at it, there are several possible birthdays for Wine, mainly: Jun 07 04:58
ZiggyFish_laptop Given that the exact birthday is a bit fuzzy, we’ll simply continue with our normal biweekly release dates. That puts the 1.0 release at June 6th if it’s ready by then, or June 20th or July 4th if it’s not. Jun 07 04:58
schestowitz Ballmer: I errr… don’t know this man… yeah, we chatted. We said many times we would start a proxy fight, but really… man! We don’t know this man… “he’s independent” Jun 07 04:58
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 07 04:58
schestowitz Hey, ‘Dougman’? Jun 07 04:59
ZiggyFish_laptop I think Icahn, is going to be looking for a new job soon. Better send him the paper ;) Jun 07 05:00
schestowitz They should unleash the secret services on people like him. It’s the modern-day mafia but with more wealth. Jun 07 05:02
ZiggyFish_laptop http://news.cnet.com/Security-Bit… – Security Bites Podcast: Mozilla’s ‘Human Shield’ on Firefox 3 Jun 07 05:06
ZiggyFish_laptop this shows you how much Net Applications is biased toward microsoft. Jun 07 05:11
schestowitz By Human Shield I thought it would say something about blocking Microsoft from pulling a Novell against FF Jun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptop net applications =  Firefox accounts for 18.4% Jun 07 05:12
schestowitz Microsoft already has a sort of insider int here (Snyder) Jun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptop w3schools =  39.1% Jun 07 05:12
schestowitz It’s probably more Jun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptop xitimonitor = 28 % Jun 07 05:12
schestowitz You know why? Because of all those Win32/IE zombie running rampant. Jun 07 05:13
schestowitz In BoycottNovell FF is something like 70%. Let me check. Jun 07 05:13
schestowitz I flush logs every night though. Just graphs remain. Jun 07 05:13
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: lol Jun 07 05:14
ZiggyFish_laptop www.safalra.com, 52% Gecko based Jun 07 05:14
ZiggyFish_laptop firefox = Geko based Jun 07 05:14
schestowitz This month in BN.com FF has 60.2 % Jun 07 05:14
ZiggyFish_laptop same site 40% for IE, lol Jun 07 05:15
schestowitz Linux: 44.7 % Jun 07 05:15
schestowitz More than Windows! :-) Jun 07 05:15
ZiggyFish_laptop nice Jun 07 05:15
dsmith_ roy, yes that was me Jun 07 05:15
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: is that unique visits though? Jun 07 05:15
schestowitz Lenovo: “Buy Microsoft. Which will it be? Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Linux?” Jun 07 05:15
schestowitz No, not unique, hit based Jun 07 05:16
ZiggyFish_laptop oh Jun 07 05:16
schestowitz What’s why stats can be so meaningless and be gamed. Jun 07 05:16
schestowitz Microsoft /LOVES/ playing with stats to underplay Linux presence. Jun 07 05:16
ZiggyFish_laptop I wonder if  Net Applications is unique based Jun 07 05:17
dsmith_ lalalla, doesn’t understand Jun 07 05:17
dsmith_ I did not mention Dell, but I am aware of it. perhaps I do not want a Dell? Jun 07 05:18
schestowitz It’s the site they sample (population) that count Jun 07 05:18
ZiggyFish_laptop because if it isn’t, and i assume Microsoft would be a big part of the stats. Jun 07 05:18
schestowitz Oh, and weighting. Jun 07 05:18
dsmith_ were back to square one again, no choice in OS Jun 07 05:18
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Jun 07 05:18
schestowitz Hypothetical scenario: take MSN.com, take some 1000 mom-and-pop site, concatenate and then parse. What will you get? Jun 07 05:19
schestowitz Why don’t they just sell frakin’ hardware? You know  what Microsoft did? It called them ‘naked’ PCs. The demonisation. Jun 07 05:20
dsmith_ naked, lol Jun 07 05:22
schestowitz Not open Jun 07 05:22
dsmith_ get this they still sales the workstations with no OS Jun 07 05:23
schestowitz Not liberated. Jun 07 05:23
dsmith_ go figure Jun 07 05:23
schestowitz Naked. Jun 07 05:23
dsmith_ http://shop… Jun 07 05:23
schestowitz It then played police and insisted that if people don’t have an O/S preinstalled, they are criminals, pirates, thieves. When Wal-Mart sells Linux, it then need to ensure people keep it on the system. Microsoft Police demands this. Jun 07 05:23
schestowitz Buy your O/S-free PC now…. don’t forget to buy a bathing suit for it, at the least. Jun 07 05:23
ZiggyFish_laptop that’s one of the big things windows has for them, venders Jun 07 05:24
ZiggyFish_laptop my local, mall doesn’t have a single linux PC/laptop (2 floors). Jun 07 05:25
schestowitz dsmith, why does it say “_Genuine_ Windows Vista Business”? Jun 07 05:26
dsmith_ on the link? Jun 07 05:26
ZiggyFish_laptop and there is 6 shops that sell computers Jun 07 05:27
schestowitz Dunno. I need to enable JS to click on it to open. Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_ Operating system12 Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_   DOS (No Software Preloaded) Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_ D10 Dos OS, SATA and SAS drive version Jun 07 05:28
ZiggyFish_laptop sorry nine shops Jun 07 05:28
schestowitz Genuine = nice way of making you feel special. (“less nagware, despite remote switch”) Jun 07 05:28
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: windows is nagware. Less would = no windows :P Jun 07 05:29
schestowitz Vista is a new breed though. Ask those who know the internals. Jun 07 05:30
ZiggyFish_laptop schestowitz: would I be asking kids, or monkeys Jun 07 05:30
schestowitz The Microsoft (MSN) butterfly flew too close to the sun. They got greedy. If they build it, will people come? Jun 07 05:31
*dsmith_ looks over ACER’s website Jun 07 05:31
schestowitz Acer seems to be the ‘next  Asus’ (in terms of strategy) Jun 07 05:33
dsmith_ horrible, search function. It never loaded, and when one clicks on laptops it gives 20 different versions to choose from, how useless Jun 07 05:36
ZiggyFish_laptop brb Jun 07 05:38
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dsmith_ seems they offer a 5710z ubuntu laptop, but its for overseas customers. Jun 07 05:40
dsmith_ I cannnot find linux on thier site at all Jun 07 05:40
schestowitz Windows Vista gives 9 options. :-) Jun 07 05:40
*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 07 05:42
ZiggyFish back Jun 07 05:43
dsmith_ http://www.engadget.com/200… Jun 07 05:45
schestowitz *looks* Jun 07 05:47
schestowitz I wonder how Microsoft will respond to this (rest assure, they’ll try). Jim Allchin, Microsoft: “I feel we are much too smug in dealing with Novell. Perhaps they didn’t hurt us in DOS yet — but it’s not because of product or their trying. It’s because ____we already had the OEMs wrapped up.____” Jun 07 05:48
ZiggyFish nice article Jun 07 05:51
ZiggyFish commical Jun 07 05:51
schestowitz Guys, should we maybe assemble a table of Ballnux free OEMs? Jun 07 05:58
schestowitz As in… advise people on where to purchase Linux while avoiding the Microsoft patent tax? Jun 07 05:59
ZiggyFish Telstra in Australia is a very very big telco (it was once own by the government previously). and Telstra bid to build the Federal Government’s $4.7 billion funded national broadband network (NBN). Jun 07 06:00
dsmith_ sure. Jun 07 06:00
dsmith_ there are a few out there Jun 07 06:00
ZiggyFish But both  Internode and Acer are looking at open source for this new network Jun 07 06:00
schestowitz Tesco sells eSys Ubuntu boxes now. 6.04, IIRC (LTS) Jun 07 06:00
ZiggyFish http://www.itnews.com.au/News/… Jun 07 06:01
schestowitz I’m not sure about few, esp. if you consider small shops. LXer has a database. Jun 07 06:01
schestowitz If you can present offers and say “vendor X offers distribution Y, but…” Jun 07 06:01
schestowitz You can reward those which steer away from the Ballnuxes. Jun 07 06:02
dsmith_ eracks being one, system76, emperorlinux, psystar Jun 07 06:02
dsmith_ psystar offers MAc as well Jun 07 06:02
dsmith_ http://www.psystar.com/index.php… Jun 07 06:03
schestowitz Yes, Paystar is doing something positive by fighting hardware lockin too Jun 07 06:03
dsmith_ one can see the OS costs Jun 07 06:03
schestowitz Good article, ZF. Thanks, I’ll use it later. Jun 07 06:04
ZiggyFish there is another article assicoated with that as well. let me find the link Jun 07 06:05
ZiggyFish http://www.itnews.com.au/News/News… – Report: Consumers to pay 15 percent more for Telstra built network Jun 07 06:05
schestowitz It’s the Acer part which is new to me. The SF.net mirror I saw before. Jun 07 06:07
schestowitz I know Telstra because of iTWire Jun 07 06:07
schestowitz Speaking of sf.net: http://sourceforge.net/community/wp… (IMG) Jun 07 06:08
ZiggyFish schestowitz: sponsored by… Jun 07 06:09
ZiggyFish Microsoft Jun 07 06:09
schestowitz Yes, but it used to be just MS, then MS and O’Reilly. Jun 07 06:09
schestowitz I’m going to post somehting about this later. Jun 07 06:10
schestowitz And this from Bruce Perens: http://technocrat.net/d/200… (Microsoft Protests Linux on Phoenix Mars Mission – Future Mars Probe Will Run Windows) Jun 07 06:10
dsmith_ lmfao Jun 07 06:11
schestowitz I’m telling you, it’s like a cult. Maybe that’s why they spend millions on lobbying. Jun 07 06:12
schestowitz I was in Washington a couple of years ago and they have that space museum, so it made me think immediately: MS lobbyists (see article from yesterday) = Washington + NASA = Windows in space. Jun 07 06:13
dsmith_ lol Jun 07 06:13
dsmith_ air & Space meuseum is nice Jun 07 06:14
*tessier loves the Aie & Space Museum Jun 07 06:14
tessier One of my favorite places. Jun 07 06:14
schestowitz Microsoft PRESS RELEASE, for IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Microsoft and NASA Announce Collaboration on Space Exploration with ActiveX and Zune Technologies. Jun 07 06:14
schestowitz “look ma! Windows is so stable they even run it in space!!!11111″ Jun 07 06:15
schestowitz It’s a nice museum. very memorable. Jun 07 06:15
schestowitz Then again, you fly, so it means more to you. Jun 07 06:16
dsmith_ if MS is protesting about phoenix lander, they should send ballmer to swap it out Jun 07 06:16
schestowitz I’ll tell you what. Make them a deal. Jun 07 06:17
schestowitz Put Ballmer on the next shipment to Mars. Jun 07 06:17
tessier Speaking of flying, I recently uploaded some of my flying videos: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YhJe… Jun 07 06:17
schestowitz *watching* Jun 07 06:17
dsmith_ pilot? Jun 07 06:18
dsmith_ so am I Jun 07 06:18
dsmith_ haha Jun 07 06:18
dsmith_ Duchess thats an old twin Jun 07 06:20
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ZiggyFish nice Jun 07 06:24
schestowitz Reminded me of something I saw earlier, for strange reasons you can guess: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/… Jun 07 06:26
tessier Scheier is my hero Jun 07 06:27
schestowitz Oh, and that story from last week about the guy with a Transformers t-shirt being refused when it comes to boarding the place and risking arrest (the t-shirt had robots on it *gasp*) Jun 07 06:27
dsmith_ yea Jun 07 06:29
dsmith_ tessier youa  CFi? Jun 07 06:30
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 07 06:30
dsmith_ http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl…   http://developers.slashdot.org/ar… interesting links.. Jun 07 06:33
dsmith_ Restart reactor to complete software installation. Yes/No? Jun 07 06:33
schestowitz Everyone knows that people with bombs or schemes are boarding planes with t-shirts, esp. ones with violent imagery on them. You know, like kids’ shows. *rolls eyes* Jun 07 06:33
dsmith_ lol Jun 07 06:33
schestowitz Old power plants move from obscure proprietary code to Linux (and Windows), at least in the UK. There was an article about it last week Jun 07 06:35
schestowitz WGA server goes down -> blackout Jun 07 06:35
dsmith_ Linux may not be ready for the desktop, but it is ready for the surface of Mars. Jun 07 06:35
schestowitz “Ready for the Desktop” meme. Where can I buy the t-shirt (and is it airport-’safe’?) Jun 07 06:36
tessier dsmith_: Not yet but I’m working on it. Jun 07 06:53
dsmith_ ahhh, I have yet to finish my private.. Jun 07 06:53
dsmith_ I am have been slowly trying ti finish but work s keeps getting in my way Jun 07 06:54
dsmith_ ~100 hrs Jun 07 06:54
tessier I have nearly a thousand hours. Jun 07 06:54
dsmith_ ahhh sweet Jun 07 06:54
dsmith_ ever been to oshkosh? Jun 07 06:54
tessier No but I’ve always wanted to. But I’m in San Diego. That’s a long flight. Jun 07 06:55
tessier And of course if I go to Oshkosh I want to fly myself there. Jun 07 06:55
tessier Maybe I’ll fly to Indiana to visit my mom and rent a plane from there Jun 07 06:56
schestowitz Microsoft is getting ripped here: http://blog.milkingthegnu.org/200… Jun 07 07:03
ZiggyFish have you guys moved over to the US, moved over to 3G network yet Jun 07 07:09
ZiggyFish Australia is on migrating to the NextG network slowly. We now can’t at all get the CDMA network. Jun 07 07:10
dsmith_ dunno Jun 07 07:10
ZiggyFish Telstra, stopped the CDMA network I think last month (I believe) Jun 07 07:11
ZiggyFish Telstra stopped, on 03 May Jun 07 07:13
ZiggyFish back Jun 07 07:20
schestowitz Someone seems to have just threatened a Microsoft Munchkin. Jun 07 07:25
schestowitz I caught up with COLA, which has the message: Jun 07 07:25
tessier http://www.electronista.com/artic… Neato Jun 07 07:25
schestowitz “Promise to Flatfish [...] Gary Stewart, AKA Moshe Goldfarb and countless others. Your libelous speeches toward Linux advocacy have been noticed. You can run, but you can’t hide.  See you in court.” There are some new laws in the EU against AstroTurfing. They came into effect May 26th. Jun 07 07:26
schestowitz Runs Linux, IIRC, tessier. Or something along those lines. Sony puts Linux in its TV sets. Jun 07 07:26
tessier Yep Jun 07 07:27
tessier I have a friend who works for Sony and does the Linux stuff in the TV sets. :) Jun 07 07:27
PetoKraus :) Jun 07 07:27
tessier The EEE stuff runs Xandros Jun 07 07:27
tessier I have an EEE PC  which I carry in the trunk of my car all the time. Jun 07 07:27
PetoKraus wasn’t the… linux in PS3′s embedded somewhere? Jun 07 07:27
schestowitz The Xandros guy told me they don’t pay royalties Jun 07 07:27
PetoKraus because we removed the hard drive and it still booted into the linux Jun 07 07:27
schestowitz Actually, he just said they were not tied to the Microsoft dea Jun 07 07:27
schestowitz deal Jun 07 07:27
schestowitz PS2 also, I hear… Jun 07 07:28
tessier schestowitz: Who is that threatening to sue? Jun 07 07:28
schestowitz I don’t know. He used Tor. Jun 07 07:28
tessier In all of the years of cola and lawsuits I have never heard of a single suit actually being filed Jun 07 07:28
schestowitz I got an E-mail about a month ago. Someone wants him in jail Jun 07 07:28
schestowitz .Recently, the Microsoft trolls have gone as far as intimidation, not just smears Jun 07 07:29
schestowitz It’s getting ugly and for all I can tell they try to gag advocates. Jun 07 07:29
tessier You think it’s MS behind it? Or just disaffected windows nerds? Jun 07 07:30
schestowitz Microsoft +ecosystem, IMHO. Lots of people depend on MS dominance. Jun 07 07:31
tessier But do the people who depend on MS dominance really have time to sit in cola and make waves with Linux advocates who are just preaching to the choir? Jun 07 07:31
schestowitz Nessunu (he’s a professor by the way) reckons that only DFS is an independent Windows developers and the others are the fruits of corporate corruption. Jun 07 07:32
tessier Anyone with any real business sense such that they depend on MS would know cola is pointless Jun 07 07:32
schestowitz Remember that they operate outside COLA too. Jun 07 07:32
tessier But they sure seem to spend a lot of time on cola Jun 07 07:33
tessier And why spend any time on it at all? They aren’t having one lick of effect on anything Jun 07 07:33
schestowitz The stuff in COLA gets indexed and seen. Jun 07 07:33
schestowitz Go to Google, type in ‘microsoft briberies’. See what you get in the results. Jun 07 07:34
dsmith_ 1,760 results Jun 07 07:35
schestowitz What’s in page 1? Jun 07 07:35
dsmith_ yours Jun 07 07:36
dsmith_ hah Jun 07 07:36
dsmith_ actually 96 when doing “micorsoft briberies” Jun 07 07:36
tessier I never see stuff on usenet turn up in google searches unless I specifically search groups.google.com Jun 07 07:42
schestowitz They began merging these searches a while ago (no idea as to why) and there are USENET mirrors (static HTML) as wwell. Jun 07 07:44
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ZiggyFish Due to a problem in the way Apache binds itself to port 80 on Windows machines allows the PHP environment running under Apache to gain access to the information being sent to port 80, which in turn can be leveraged to preform man-in-the-middle attacks. ROLF Jun 07 08:44
schestowitz URL? Jun 07 08:44
ZiggyFish http://www.securiteam.com/too… Jun 07 08:45
schestowitz Windows was never designed for a networked (let alone multi-user) environment. Proof here: http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-micros… Jun 07 08:46
ZiggyFish nice, Microsoft Plans Seven Security Fixes Next Week <http://www.informationweek…. Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFish The “critical” flaws affect Bluetooth and DirectX in certain versions of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Internet Explorer. The “critical” designation typically means an attack could exploit the vulnerability to execute malicious code remotely on an affected system. Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFish The “important” flaws affect Windows Internet Name Service, Active Directory, and Pragmatic General Multicast. The WINS issue could allow for user privilege elevation, while the Active Directory and PGM vulnerabilities could allow a denial-of-service attack. Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFish The “important” flaw affects a Windows registry Kill Bit, which is used to disable ActiveX controls. Microsoft says the vulnerability could lead to remote code execution, but it apparently believes mitigating factors make this vulnerability less dangerous. Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFish Microsoft will release more specific information about the vulnerabilities next week. Jun 07 08:54
PetoKraus when microsoft believes a vulnerability is not dangerous because of obstacles in the way Jun 07 08:59
PetoKraus WRONG Jun 07 08:59
PetoKraus take Xbox as an example… Jun 07 08:59
schestowitz How so? Jun 07 09:04
PetoKraus well, they made security system Jun 07 09:06
PetoKraus to disable people from booting linux/playing copied games Jun 07 09:06
PetoKraus trough some bad design decisions, low budget and hurry it was broken Jun 07 09:06
PetoKraus and their fixes were – not to patch the hole, but to build a fence around it… Jun 07 09:06
PetoKraus there was a nice article how they did it Jun 07 09:07
PetoKraus here: http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mista… Jun 07 09:07
PetoKraus and i am gonna go to the forest Jun 07 09:08
PetoKraus see you tomorrow Jun 07 09:08
schestowitz Heh. Yeah, I remember. Jun 07 09:18
schestowitz They blocked Linux. That, to Microsoft at least, is a ‘security’ breach. Jun 07 09:18
schestowitz 40% of the world’s PCs are zombies? Na, that’s peanuts, as long as they run Windows. A few hackers running Linux on the XBox? OMG! Take cover!!!!11111 Jun 07 09:19
ZiggyFish schestowitz: it more of a bottom line breach for Microsoft, then a security Jun 07 09:19
schestowitz Financial security. Jun 07 09:19
ZiggyFish lol Jun 07 09:20
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ZiggyFish schestowitz: have you read this http://seattlepi.nwsou… – Icahn pushes Yahoo to sell to Microsoft Jun 07 09:47
ZiggyFish SAN FRANCISCO — Billionaire investor Carl Icahn ratcheted up the pressure on Yahoo Inc. Friday, saying that the Web portal should sell itself to Microsoft Corp. for $49.5 billion, which is $2 billion more than what had been offered before negotiations between the two technology titans collapsed last month. Jun 07 09:47
schestowitz [speculation] So Microsoft still wants Yahoo! but it wants to stage this differently, having history tell that Yahoo was the one wooing Microsoft. Jun 07 09:50
ZiggyFish 50 B is a lot of money. do you thing Yahoo will sell on that. Even with Microsoft’s resources, do they have enough money(considering that microsoft is on a 52 week low ATM)? Jun 07 09:52
schestowitz No. Jun 07 09:54
schestowitz Microsoft has only about 26 B in the bank. Jun 07 09:54
schestowitz For the first time in its history it would need to borrow lots of money, but it’s a question of long-term survival, so it hasn’t much choice. Jun 07 09:55
ZiggyFish schestowitz: that’s it. even for a bank to loan that amount, is a big big risk Jun 07 09:55
ZiggyFish 24 B need to borrow Jun 07 09:55
ZiggyFish And AFAIK Yahoo, was looking for that amount anyway. Jun 07 09:56
schestowitz Well.. Jun 07 09:59
schestowitz They need that money for returns to investors. Jun 07 09:59
ZiggyFish true Jun 07 10:00
schestowitz Still, they ran out of capacity to run themselves independently, the company’s market cap sank $30 B in just 3 months (Feb -May) and profit declined in the last report (Windows sales down 24%) Jun 07 10:01
schestowitz Wait until they start blaming recession, not Vista (ME2) or ME3 (aka Seven) Jun 07 10:01
ZiggyFish If Microsoft takes over Yahoo, it would have to pay employees who subsequently are fired or who leave for “good cause” between two months and two years of salary. Jun 07 10:09
ZiggyFish Internal Yahoo documents made public by a lawsuit estimate that the benefit would cost Microsoft around $2.4 billion if a merger were consummated at $35 per share. Jun 07 10:09
schestowitz I care less about the money and more about choice. Jun 07 10:15
schestowitz If Yahoo is devoured to die along with Microsoft, then all we have is Google (or temporarily Microsoft). Jun 07 10:15
schestowitz Yahoo! Engineers + Microsoft Bureaucracy = Rotten Beaver. Jun 07 10:16
ZiggyFish schestowitz: you always have ask.com Jun 07 10:28
zoobab hi Jun 07 10:30
ZiggyFish hi Jun 07 10:30
schestowitz Hey Ben. Jun 07 10:31
zoobab what’s up? Jun 07 10:31
schestowitz I’ve found some stuff about great Microsoft INNOVA~1 Jun 07 10:31
zoobab we are preparing for the next battle against swpats here Jun 07 10:31
zoobab the French presidency wants a central court Jun 07 10:32
schestowitz Microsoft’s brainwave is called Device Manners Policy (DMP) and it could ensure that if a sign says “No photography allowe[d]”, then your camera or your phone’s camera won’t work. ( http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/0… ) Jun 07 10:32
schestowitz Recipe for disaster Jun 07 10:32
zoobab of course Jun 07 10:32
schestowitz And:http://fringethoughts.wordp… (on ACTA) Jun 07 10:32
zoobab but we have the chance to have unanimity  in the Counciol Jun 07 10:32
zoobab so we have to trigger problems Jun 07 10:32
schestowitz French presidency is in Microsoft’s pocket Jun 07 10:32
zoobab like the fact that we don’t have a constitution in Europe Jun 07 10:32
schestowitz Literally lodging together. Jun 07 10:33
zoobab and judges should be appointed in compliance with constitutional rules Jun 07 10:33
schestowitz My background in politics in poor, but I see what you mean. Jun 07 10:33
zoobab mine too Jun 07 10:34
schestowitz I’m a CS person. Jun 07 10:34
zoobab especially in law Jun 07 10:34
schestowitz Law: rules money can generate Jun 07 10:34
zoobab the good thing is that the more time passes on, the worse it gets with swpats Jun 07 10:34
schestowitz Lawyer: position for generation of money from law Jun 07 10:34
schestowitz They are passing some in the UK. Jun 07 10:35
zoobab just wait five years, it will be a plague in the US Jun 07 10:35
schestowitz Finjan down in London, sponsored by Microsoft. Jun 07 10:35
zoobab what is Finjan? Jun 07 10:35
schestowitz Even in India now, and SA. Jun 07 10:35
schestowitz Some silly ‘investor’ company, something to do with inspecting static code, IIRC. Jun 07 10:36
schestowitz I’d have to check. They sue a US company, IIRC. Jun 07 10:36
zoobab http://www.finjan.com/Pressrele… Jun 07 10:36
schestowitz Same in China, regarding patent plague. The Economist has an article about it. Updegrove and GL cited it. Jun 07 10:36
schestowitz *look* Jun 07 10:37
zoobab Finjan is partially owned by Microsoft, which purchased a non-exclusive worldwide license for some Finjan patents last year. Jun 07 10:37
schestowitz That’s an older press releasee. Jun 07 10:37
zoobab url? Jun 07 10:37
schestowitz Wait.. Jun 07 10:37
schestowitz Hers’s all I have in my DB: http://boycottnovell.com/index.php?s=finjan Jun 07 10:38
zoobab I meants the article of the Economist Jun 07 10:38
schestowitz The other problem is Symbian (DLL nonsense) Jun 07 10:39
zoobab we are working on it Jun 07 10:39
zoobab the problem is to intervene in the case Jun 07 10:39
schestowitz http://www.economist.com/business/displayst… Jun 07 10:40
schestowitz Do you known Aidan? Jun 07 10:40
schestowitz know Jun 07 10:41
zoobab Katz? Jun 07 10:43
schestowitz Wait, I can’t remember. Will look at email… Jun 07 10:43
zoobab EFF Jun 07 10:44
schestowitz McGuire Jun 07 10:44
schestowitz No, FFII coordinator here. Jun 07 10:44
schestowitz I don’t know him, but he’s on the same mailing list. Jun 07 10:45
zoobab yes I know him  a bit Jun 07 10:45
zoobab I meet him once at Eupaco Jun 07 10:45
zoobab mostly I know Gavin in the UK Jun 07 10:45
zoobab Gavin Hill Jun 07 10:46
schestowitz Ah, him too. Jun 07 10:46
schestowitz What can one do to help fight swpatents? Jun 07 10:46
schestowitz I mean, other than the obvious. Jun 07 10:46
zoobab well Jun 07 10:47
zoobab I need some people to help collecting daily news Jun 07 10:48
zoobab it is a pain in the ass Jun 07 10:48
zoobab and we will need help for the new campaign Jun 07 10:48
zoobab are you based in the UK? Jun 07 10:49
schestowitz On patents, I’m fed by just a few sources (primarily your arsenal) because I focus on other things. Jun 07 10:49
schestowitz Yes. Jun 07 10:49
zoobab London? Jun 07 10:49
schestowitz No, Manchester. Jun 07 10:49
zoobab ok Jun 07 10:49
zoobab we should met one day Jun 07 10:49
schestowitz Matt Lee is also here, but it’s probably of no use. Jun 07 10:49
schestowitz The FSFE was here a few yeasr back and I met them. Jun 07 10:50
zoobab FSFE are doing nothing Jun 07 10:50
schestowitz One issue to address less directly is not patents, but the corruption behind them. Jun 07 10:50
zoobab at least when it comes to swpats Jun 07 10:50
schestowitz The UK is now sort of cracking down on lobbyists. Jun 07 10:50
schestowitz They only expose it. Jun 07 10:51
zoobab well, it is impossible to get rid of lobbyists Jun 07 10:51
schestowitz The US only exposes a mere fraction. Jun 07 10:51
schestowitz But… it’s a loss cause there. Jun 07 10:51
zoobab it is Jun 07 10:51
zoobab even Hillary said she is taking money from lobbyists Jun 07 10:51
schestowitz And as ZiggyFish might know, his country too (AU) got infected by the swpats virus. Jun 07 10:51
zoobab but Obama wants to refuse Jun 07 10:51
ZiggyFish schestowitz: url =?? Jun 07 10:52
schestowitz Really? I haven’t followed that. Jun 07 10:52
zoobab are you on the list for the ukswpat Symbian case? Jun 07 10:52
schestowitz Oh, it’s old news, ZF. Been like this for a while, DMCA also. Jun 07 10:52
schestowitz Censorship… the whole US bundle. Jun 07 10:52
schestowitz No, can you add me? Is it a high-volume list? Jun 07 10:53
zoobab no Jun 07 10:53
zoobab I will asl Jun 07 10:53
zoobab ask Jun 07 10:53
schestowitz Nokia is thinking about putting the ** on Symbian and focusing on Linux. Jun 07 10:53
schestowitz It denies this in The Register, but the trend seems telling. Jun 07 10:53
zoobab do you know elinux.org? Jun 07 10:54
schestowitz They also embraced Qt (well, bought it) and mix it with Maemo and GTK Jun 07 10:54
schestowitz They want to battle Android and LiMo IMHO Jun 07 10:54
schestowitz The domain seems familiar, why? Jun 07 10:54
zoobab I saw some slides about smaller kernels Jun 07 10:55
schestowitz Does it not exist already? Jun 07 10:55
zoobab and I am interested in small kernels because I am fitting openwrt in 2MB routers Jun 07 10:56
zoobab well, there are patches for recent 2.6.2x kernels Jun 07 10:56
schestowitz There’s a Linux that fits on 1.4 MB floppies. Jun 07 10:56
schestowitz 2.4, I think. Jun 07 10:56
zoobab I have router with 2.4.20 on 1MB flash Jun 07 10:56
zoobab I have 5 of those Jun 07 10:56
zoobab but I don’t have time to port openwrt Jun 07 10:57
schestowitz Can Vista and MinWin fit a 1MB flash? Jun 07 10:57
zoobab 100MB Jun 07 10:57
schestowitz WinMin? Jun 07 10:57
zoobab I heard 54MB for XP slim Jun 07 10:57
zoobab stripped down Jun 07 10:57
schestowitz With solitaire.com and reedit.exe? :-) Jun 07 10:57
zoobab don’t know Jun 07 10:57
schestowitz solitaire.exe and regedit.exe I meant. Jun 07 10:57
zoobab I don’t care about windows Jun 07 10:57
schestowitz The fast-boot thing and patch kernel without reboot  thing seems to have stepped on Bill’s patents. Jun 07 10:58
schestowitz It was discussed in their mailing llists, I think. Also in Slashdot. They contaminate everything, even low-level stuff. Jun 07 10:59
zoobab kexec Jun 07 10:59
schestowitz Yes. Jun 07 10:59
zoobab I have to try it Jun 07 10:59
zoobab I want to use it for xterminals Jun 07 10:59
zoobab like you boot a minimal kernel, detect the hardware, and reboot another one Jun 07 10:59
schestowitz Just wait until… Jun 07 10:59
schestowitz Novell gives {Added Value]^TM with Microsoft-approved Linux kernels. Jun 07 11:00
schestowitz That’s the plan anyway. Dividing past the GPL with swpats Jun 07 11:01
zoobab we should do the same Jun 07 11:01
zoobab pile up patents that MS infringes, and ask MS customers to buy a coupon Jun 07 11:01
schestowitz Then it would say that only the mythical SUSE kernel (bought from Novell) is ‘covered’ Jun 07 11:01
schestowitz It won’t work. Jun 07 11:01
zoobab not if you buold a troll company Jun 07 11:02
zoobab with 200 patents in ther Jun 07 11:02
schestowitz Mhyrvold gets swpats from MS, then attacks. Linux’ cost advantage.. gone! Jun 07 11:02
zoobab of course Jun 07 11:02
zoobab it is a mafia Jun 07 11:02
schestowitz in suits Jun 07 11:02
zoobab yop Jun 07 11:02
schestowitz I fail to think of mitigation means other than  awareness or armageddon (see Economist again) Jun 07 11:03
zoobab the best for us is product removal from the market Jun 07 11:04
zoobab like no Blackberry on the market anymore Jun 07 11:04
schestowitz They should make a film: “When Software Met Political Corruption” Jun 07 11:04
zoobab and it will happen Jun 07 11:04
schestowitz Deterrence? Joe Avergae won’t give a S Jun 07 11:04
zoobab I am thinking about a European Day against Software Patents Jun 07 11:04
zoobab 6 of July Jun 07 11:05
zoobab of 23 September Jun 07 11:05
schestowitz Belgium?> Jun 07 11:05
schestowitz Here in the UK you wouldn’t have anyone turning up Jun 07 11:05
zoobab it is important to put the fire for the french presidency Jun 07 11:05
schestowitz They bring brainwash to kids now. Jun 07 11:05
schestowitz Microsoft invaded UK education as well. Patents and all… Jun 07 11:06
zoobab yes but we brainwash more Jun 07 11:06
schestowitz Let me find something… Jun 07 11:06
zoobab I have to clean my clothes today Jun 07 11:07
zoobab lot of work to do Jun 07 11:07
schestowitz OK, I’ll catch you later. Jun 07 11:07
zoobab btw Jun 07 11:09
zoobab http://www.hackerspace.net Jun 07 11:09
zoobab you can come Jun 07 11:09
ZiggyFish is there an resources on the swpats virus Jun 07 11:09
schestowitz What I was going to find is here: Jun 07 11:09
schestowitz http://www.microsoft.com/… Basically, it’s about Microsoft seeing what’s coming (FOSS everywhere) and planning to brainwash kids at school in order to find-tune perceptions. Jun 07 11:11
schestowitz ZF, try DigitalMajority for news. I don’t know sites with introduction, but watch the FFII video on YoutTube. Wait… Jun 07 11:12
ZiggyFish nice Jun 07 11:12
zoobab it is always interesting to read MS SEC filings Jun 07 11:12
zoobab because they talk about swpats Jun 07 11:12
schestowitz I think that’s the one: Jun 07 11:14
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbDfo4q5pw Jun 07 11:14
schestowitz They also talk about lowered margins in this one, due to Free software (Linux is named). They warned investors before the last disappointing report. Jun 07 11:15
*ZiggyFish kicks him self Jun 07 11:19
ZiggyFish I was thinking swpats was a computer virus (i.e, a Trojan, like the ones you get on windows). Jun 07 11:20
schestowitz Oh. Jun 07 11:21
ZiggyFish that’s why I wanted a link ;) Jun 07 11:24
schestowitz InI can give you a link to a virus too, but it might only work on IE/Win32. Jun 07 11:30
ZiggyFish lol Jun 07 11:33
schestowitz I’ve just posted an item about opensuse 11.0 Jun 07 11:35
schestowitz I wonder how to suppress its adoption on the day it’s released. I got attacked when 10.3 came out. Jun 07 11:36
schestowitz I ought to do something creative to remind people why to avoid SUSE and then attract attention to it. Jun 07 11:36
ZiggyFish yeah, would help, also people can use it in SuSE battles :O Jun 07 11:38
schestowitz I think I have an idea. If we could show people, using screenshots for example, that underneath the surface SUSE is identical to other distros, we could then encourage people to steer away from Novell and Microsoft. Jun 07 11:38
schestowitz If one reader uses distro X, s/he can take a look at gallry of screenshots from OSuse 11 and then produce an almost identical one. The key message: OSUSE is just a copy of perfectly fine and FREE GNU/Linux dsitros. Jun 07 11:39
ZiggyFish yeah, also discuss alternatives (like Red hat Enterprise Linux for enterprise, and ubuntu for normal users). Jun 07 11:40
schestowitz See http://gnuman.com/screenshots.html?gid=36 Jun 07 11:41
schestowitz Unrelated to this, the other day in BN.com a former Novell employee brought this up: http://slashdot.org/comments.p… Jun 07 11:45
schestowitz On mormon density at Novell. Jun 07 11:46
ZiggyFish lol Jun 07 11:47
ZiggyFish SuSE I like th installer Jun 07 11:48
ZiggyFish mandrake (when it was called that) 9 has a installer like that Jun 07 11:49
ZiggyFish anyway, getting tied, I’m off for the night Jun 07 11:56
ZiggyFish see ya Jun 07 11:56
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martinjh99 Morning all Jun 07 12:04
schestowitz Howdy. Jun 07 12:04
schestowitz Moments ago we discussed ways of explaining to people why they should steer away from OpenSUSE 11.0 Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99 Morning Roy – Like your website.  Interessting times we live in eh… Jun 07 12:05
schestowitz It’s release very soon and Novell will generate lots of hype Jun 07 12:05
schestowitz Thanls. Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99 I’m going to try the RC in a virtual machine.  Have a soft spot for Suse as it was my first Linux distro…  5.1 I think it was… Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99 Personally going to stick with Kubuntu as my properly installed distro though. Jun 07 12:06
schestowitz Novell will use the installer to brag. Jun 07 12:07
schestowitz Never mind if it’s a one-time shell. Jun 07 12:07
schestowitz YaST is another thing, but it’s hardly needed most of the time. Isn’t it fully GPLed by now? Jun 07 12:08
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martinjh99 Sorry about that – Got disconnected!  Did I miss anything? Jun 07 12:14
schestowitz I think now. Last message was: “YaST is another thing, but it’s hardly needed most of the time. Isn’t it fully GPLed by now?” Jun 07 12:16
martinjh99 Yast is yes AFAIK…  Not an expert on Suse by a long shot. Jun 07 12:17
schestowitz It used to be closed-source. Jun 07 12:21
schestowitz I think it only gradually opened, but nobody else embraced this, so I wondered… Jun 07 12:22
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schestowitz I’m off for a few hours… Jun 07 12:49
martinjh99 Same here – When’s the best time to drop by..? Jun 07 12:49
schestowitz Any time almost Jun 07 12:49
martinjh99 when is it busier than it is now? ;) Jun 07 12:49
schestowitz Weekdays probably Jun 07 12:51
martinjh99 Ah OK – Catch ya later! Jun 07 12:52
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schestowitz I’ve just taken Wikia search for a spin. It got pretty decent. Jun 07 16:42
jbh isn’t that written in mono? Jun 07 16:58
jbh or use mono Jun 07 16:59
jbh or something Jun 07 16:59
schestowitz Lucene as the engine? I don’t know. I was surprised to see Yahoo! at the top (given its possible vocation) Jun 07 16:59
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jbh is mono on the wii true? Jun 07 17:21
jbh they’re trying to contaminate everything aren’t they? Jun 07 17:22
schestowitz I’ve heard something from Miles about it a couple of days ago. Jun 07 17:24
schestowitz I can look up the details. Jun 07 17:24
jbh yea, that’s the comment I just saw Jun 07 17:25
schestowitz Well, it would be a tad problematic if Microsoft #1 console competitor became technically dependent (and legally too) on its opponent, but this is just homebrew/hacker/modding. Jun 07 17:25
schestowitz Hi Andreas Jun 07 17:26
jbh http://unity3d.com/ Jun 07 17:27
jbh found that after several pages of “Gutar Hero 3 + Mono sound” Jun 07 17:28
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jbh looks like it might be a bit more than modding Jun 07 17:29
schestowitz *looks* Jun 07 17:29
jbh true, hard to tell for sure Jun 07 17:29
schestowitz I’m looking at the URL Jun 07 17:30
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jbh http://unity3d.com/uni… Jun 07 17:31
jbh mentions that it uses mono for game scripting Jun 07 17:32
jbh “.NET based Jun 07 17:32
jbh Game logic runs on the Open Source .NET platform, Mono. “ Jun 07 17:32
schestowitz (interesting that OpenSUSE people join this channel (Andreas Stieger in this case) Jun 07 17:32
jbh I was wondering if he was from suse Jun 07 17:33
schestowitz Miguel wanted to grab some space on Android OHA) as well Jun 07 17:33
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schestowitz Replacing Java VM with .NETty stuff. Jun 07 17:34
jbh http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=… Jun 07 17:34
jbh yea, not surprised Jun 07 17:35
schestowitz Some Novell developers read BN.com as well, but that’s another story. I don’t believe it’s well intended and I’m still hoping a group of them will fork and rescure S.u.S.E. so to speak. Jun 07 17:36
schestowitz Rescue, I mean Jun 07 17:36
jbh I never really liked SuSE Jun 07 17:37
jbh tried 5.3 and didn’t care for it Jun 07 17:37
jbh been red hat and debian(based) since Jun 07 17:37
jbh (running ubuntu right now) Jun 07 17:38
schestowitz GNOME? Jun 07 17:38
jbh yea Jun 07 17:38
schestowitz I was using GNOME exclusively for years, on top of Red Hat Linux. Jun 07 17:38
jbh same Jun 07 17:38
jbh I only tried ubuntu about a year or so ago and have been running it since Jun 07 17:39
schestowitz Also loved Enlightenment, but with SuSE I began using KDE more often, going back to my experiences with it in 2.x days Jun 07 17:39
jbh I never had the hardware to handle enlightenment Jun 07 17:41
schestowitz Mandriva seems OK also and it’s KDE-based. A friend sent me this E-mail the other day (he installed Mandriva. “Just tried out the Mandriva DVD, went like a dream. I kept my current partitions eg /root /boot /home /archive /backup /videos. Picked them up no problem. I would imagine the average user would have no problem in installing it. I do find the Mandriva specific msgs most help full. Obviously someone thought of the end users. Of course Jun 07 17:41
schestowitz what enduser has to install his own Windows from scratch nowadays. And of course with Mandriva you get a full office suite, media player etc, out of the box. With Windows you get a time limited etc. I accepted the default KDS/XPee lookalike desktop, next is to replace it with Xfce. One thing I noticed is that the USB is automatically picked up and a ‘do you want to open a folder’ msg pops up, just like XPee. Unlike, SuSE who helpfully disab Jun 07 17:41
schestowitz led auto mounting of USB devices in V 10.2 or there abouts. Ubuntu I liked especially for the online forum, spent ages trying to get BBC videos to work, worked once and then didn’t .. :) So the verdict is: Mandriva is most definitely ready for the desktop.” Jun 07 17:41
schestowitz I’m not sure about Mandriva because of Mandbo though (Turbolinux colab). Jun 07 17:42
schestowitz Manbo Jun 07 17:42
jbh ah Jun 07 17:42
schestowitz It’s a collaboration where they swap code and TL gets to see MS code I believe. Jun 07 17:43
jbh yea, that’s bad Jun 07 17:44
schestowitz Speaking of which… Jun 07 17:45
*moparx shakes his head Jun 07 17:45
schestowitz Ubuntu spoke to Microsoft about codecs (I’m not sure I’m allowed to say this)… Jun 07 17:45
jbh is there anything in place to prevent that code from making it back upstream? Jun 07 17:45
schestowitz Which reminds me of the mind games they played with RHT before Global Desktop (probably) got canned. Jun 07 17:45
schestowitz They use codecs for extortion and not so long ago Michael Gesit caught Microsoft sending propaganda to Feds for DMCA in Canada. Jun 07 17:46
schestowitz Hours ago I found this: Jun 07 17:46
schestowitz Red Hat founder speaks against Canada’s copyright reform ( http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/06/0… ) Jun 07 17:46
jbh thanks for the link Jun 07 17:48
schestowitz Is anyone you know from CA. There was some lobbying for ODF there at the time, but it wasn’t too fruitful. Jun 07 17:49
schestowitz TIm Bray is from there, but there was no appeal. Jun 07 17:49
microsoft-spy schestowitz: you are allowed, Ubuntu licensed Windows Media from Microsoft for Netbooks Jun 07 17:49
jbh I don’t know anyone in CA Jun 07 17:49
moparx I’ll never understand why a distro (or any foss developer for that matter) would purposefully taint themselves for some of microsoft’s proprietary scraps. Jun 07 17:50
schestowitz Gah. Maybe that’s why they don’t allow downloads of it. Jun 07 17:52
schestowitz Software patents  aren’t even valid where Canonical is. Jun 07 17:53
schestowitz ms-spy, got a URL, please? Jun 07 17:53
jbh never even heard of netbooks before Jun 07 17:54
microsoft-spy schestowitz, how about http://www.canonical.com/netbooks ? Jun 07 17:54
schestowitz I believe this is important because given what I know I worry that MS (Mark S.) would do the same with MS for business ‘enterprise’ boxes. Jun 07 17:54
microsoft-spy schestowitz, MS does whatever benefits him, proprietary kernel parts etc Jun 07 17:55
schestowitz Which MS? Jun 07 17:55
schestowitz :-) Jun 07 17:56
microsoft-spy Shuttleworth Jun 07 17:56
schestowitz Well, that’s very problematic because he enables Microsoft to control the price of Free software. Jun 07 17:56
schestowitz They already cross-licence with Apple, but they play by their own rules. Jun 07 17:56
microsoft-spy he just says “All the *applications* in Ubuntu are free software only.” Jun 07 17:57
schestowitz Cross-licensing (pardon the typo above) is incompatible with the GPL. Jun 07 17:58
schestowitz Yes, but.. Jun 07 17:58
microsoft-spy so does not include drivers, firmware, codecs, … Jun 07 17:58
schestowitz Just to be clear, the issue is not binary/FOSS, but gratis/taxed Jun 07 17:58
schestowitz This forbids redistribution, which is also why they don’t permit downloads. It’s like another Moonlight. Jun 07 17:59
jbh I’m no longer having warm fuzzies about ubuntu :\ Jun 07 18:02
jbh might have to switch back to fedora Jun 07 18:04
*moparx prefers Slackware & Arch GNU/Linux Jun 07 18:05
schestowitz Heh. Jun 07 18:05
jbh I used to run slackware (my first distro) but it was too much work to maintain Jun 07 18:06
schestowitz Well, it’ll be interesting to so how different people respond. Some months ago Red Hat’s CEO sort of mocked Ubuntu for their handling of codecs. Jun 07 18:06
jbh which is my favorite part of ubuntu Jun 07 18:06
schestowitz There’s always Debian, I guess, but it doesn’t come with the same tools. Then, there’e Mint. What would MS+MS (on codecs) mean to a project like Linux Mint? Jun 07 18:07
moparx mint has mono if I recall correctly Jun 07 18:08
jbh so does every distro Jun 07 18:08
moparx installed by default I mean Jun 07 18:08
moparx my distros don’t :p Jun 07 18:08
schestowitz Every Ubuntu derivative would Jun 07 18:08
schestowitz . Jun 07 18:08
moparx ah Jun 07 18:08
schestowitz That’s why it ought to be nuked at the Debian branch. Jun 07 18:09
schestowitz A prominent Debian dev has been E-mailing me about it. He wants Mono out. Jun 07 18:09
jbh when can we expect it to be removed? Jun 07 18:10
schestowitz Ubuntu sets a dangerous example here. What’s next? Licensing for MOOX? Jun 07 18:10
schestowitz De facto standards with tax or RAND are GPL poison. They forbid redistribution. Jun 07 18:11
zoobab this is pretty astonishing Jun 07 18:16
zoobab that Ubuntu licences patents for mp3 Jun 07 18:17
schestowitz In the UK even. Jun 07 18:17
jbh schestowitz: why are distros shipping mono, then? Jun 07 18:18
jbh aren’t they then breaking the law? Jun 07 18:18
schestowitz Then again, the bribery-loving, charity-killing Intel that they do bizniz with Jun 07 18:18
schestowitz With Mono it’s different (compared to MP3) Jun 07 18:19
schestowitz There’s no licensing and there’s no actual code involved. It’s to do primarily with : 1) technical dependency; 2) RAND; 3) No legal promise; 4) patents Jun 07 18:20
schestowitz Does this form of codec tax therefore affect all netbooks? What about Linpus ones? Jun 07 18:21
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Eruaran Microsoft is using the European Championship to spread its malware Jun 07 18:50
Eruaran http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3509 Jun 07 18:50
schestowitz That was predictable. Will Ubuntu license that too? Oh, I guess he can’t. There’s no Silverlight for Linux. *sigh* Jun 07 18:55
Eruaran Well there’s Anakin de Icaza’s Moonlight… if you’re a Novell customer… Jun 07 18:59
schestowitz I’l; write a post about it in a moment. Maybe attach a picture of a toilet seat to Silverlight or something. That’s where it belongs. :-) Jun 07 19:02
Eruaran yes Jun 07 19:02
microsoft-spy Eruaran, Moonlight can use GStreamer and FFmpeg Jun 07 19:03
schestowitz Will Microsoft’s partners not use forbidden codecs? Jun 07 19:03
schestowitz What about the legal issues? Jun 07 19:03
Eruaran It will be a cold day in hell before I ever use Moonlight Jun 07 19:04
schestowitz It’s the Flash mess all over again, only worse because it’s anti-Linux at the same time. Jun 07 19:07
moparx *nod* Jun 07 19:07
schestowitz A few moment ago I received a go-ahead from my editor at Datamation to write an article about OLPC and FOSS. Remember what stood in the way? Remember Flash/gnash? Jun 07 19:08
Eruaran yes Jun 07 19:11
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Eruaran bbl Jun 07 19:23
schestowitz Don’t forget that Flash is spyware so those custo…errr… kids will be probably spied on for ad revenue and all sorts of similar childhood ‘joys’ Jun 07 19:24
jbh http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3304 Jun 07 19:41
jbh that’s a bit alarming Jun 07 19:42
jbh luckily C# is still the least voted for Jun 07 19:42
schestowitz I haven’t seen it yet (will look in a moment), but Microsoft was caught in the past gaming polls (e.g. .NET vs Java). Its employees bombarded a poll. Jun 07 19:44
schestowitz Some suspect that they do the same in Ubuntu Brainstorm Jun 07 19:45
jbh oh Jun 07 19:45
schestowitz I was shown example, e.g. demands for Siilverlight Jun 07 19:46
schestowitz Microsoft employees also promote Silverlight in ZDNet comments (at the least, based on proven examples). Remember that it’s the company which hires another to fake support letter from dead people (2001). It did the same recently in various occasions for OOXML. Jun 07 19:48
jbh wow Jun 07 19:49
schestowitz Malaysia schools, Denmark partners, India NGOs, ISO (Lisa Rajchel), probably more. And that excludes the stuffing. Jun 07 19:51
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tessier The Phoenix lander runs Linux? That is so col. Jun 07 21:53
tessier cool Jun 07 21:53
schestowitz I’m not sure. Someone in COLA begged to differ. Anyway, I’m tired. I’ll be back later. Jun 07 21:54
tessier VxWorks is indeed not Linux. Jun 07 21:56
tessier I’m not sure where the blogger got the info. Jun 07 21:56
tessier WindRiver makes an RTOS Linux that could be used Jun 07 21:56
tessier Although I’m not sure there is a Linux based VxWorks Jun 07 21:56
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A Single Comment

  1. NoSoftwarePatents said,

    June 8, 2008 at 8:50 am


    Since Corel got mentioned, it would be a timely reminder about Corel’s WordPerfect for Linux:


    All the packages with mono dependencies are setting up chumps for a big, nasty legal surprise when MS decides to cash in on the licensing Novell and other suckers have been peddling for them.

    I hope Acer has the smarts to stick with Gobuntu, Kubuntu or, better, tweaked Debian.

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