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07.29.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 26-28th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:51 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Microsoft’s partners in India try to pass software patents now… http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Infy-… Jul 26 17:45
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schestowitz anivar: seen the news on swpats in India? Jul 27 08:09
anivar schestowitz:   I am following it now Jul 27 08:10
anivar I forgot to write you. But send some clips to PJ Jul 27 08:10
anivar (groklaw) Jul 27 08:10
schestowitz She caught a couple. Jul 27 08:10
anivar yea. i send those Jul 27 08:11
schestowitz There are other incidents in India (Microsoft dirty ticks), so I’m going to write a long post about i. Jul 27 08:12
schestowitz *it Jul 27 08:12
anivar good .. waiting to read it Jul 27 08:13
schestowitz It’s actually something a reader asked for: a summary of Microsoft’s exploitation of developing nations. Jul 27 08:15
schestowitz It’ll be mostly links and summaries. Jul 27 08:15
anivar schestowitz: good Jul 27 08:16
anivar schestowitz:  BTW i am now involved in someway to create a Global south civil society coalition in upcoming Internet Governance forum in Hyderabad , India ( December 3-6) .. I feel the existing global south unity on NOOOXML need to be used on forums like this Jul 27 08:19
schestowitz That’s excellent. OSIndia also proposed something to override ISO a week ago. He was enthusiastically cited by many (mainly ODF/OOXML bloggers). Jul 27 08:22
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anivar schestowitz:  see this interestingdiscussion on FSF-friends  list of FSF India http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-frien… Jul 27 08:24
anivar titled Futility of going after ISO Jul 27 08:24
anivar read whole thread Jul 27 08:26
anivar http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-… Jul 27 08:27
*schestowitz reads http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friend… Jul 27 08:27
schestowitz What’s needed is a reference implementation of pool of source code. The idea of standards assumed totally independent work (automobiles for example). That’s just why there’s incompatibility when it comes to terminology in the proprietary software universe. Free software has APIs. Jul 27 08:30
anivar schestowitz: I agree completely Jul 27 08:31
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anivar schestowitz: i hope you watched this M$ IEEE alliance http://swatantran.blogspot.com/2008/07/i… Jul 27 10:57
schestowitz Yes, I linked to it in about 3 places on the Web. Jul 27 11:01
schestowitz See http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04… Jul 27 11:01
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kentma mornin’ all Jul 28 09:37
schestowitz Hey, kentma. Jul 28 09:38
schestowitz What’s the temperature like down south? Jul 28 09:39
kentma well, last night, it was so warm I got my telescope out at midnight whilst wearing shorts and t-shirt.  It’s also, as ever, about 95%+ humidity, too… Jul 28 09:40
schestowitz It’s terrible over here too… so damp. And guess what? The A/C at the gym is broken. No joy. Jul 28 09:42
kentma ukk… well, careful you don’t drink too much if you go to the gym… Jul 28 09:42
kentma there’s a point, I think around 6 or 7 litres, where you will die… Jul 28 09:44
kentma anyway, enough of that.  I’ve got my portable air-con running now to cool this room down a bit, and am considering making a hole in the wall in order to fit it permanently. Jul 28 09:44
schestowitz Remember this? http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/woman-di… Jul 28 09:45
kentma I hadn’t seen that, no.  there’re usually a couple of people a year who die from water, but that’s one of the silliest.  I presume News10 no longer runs this particular competition! Jul 28 09:47
kentma by silliest, I don’t mean to be flippant, I mean that it was just a stupid idea for a competition. Jul 28 09:47
schestowitz They got sacked, but that’s all, I think. Jul 28 09:47
kentma Misadventure, the coroner would no doubt say. Jul 28 09:48
schestowitz See this eye-opening new vid from Lessig: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/… Jul 28 09:48
kentma btw, have you read this week’s New Scientist at all? Jul 28 09:50
schestowitz I never read it, no. If it’s in paper form, fuhgetaboutit. :-) Jul 28 09:51
kentma okay, well you need to look out for a Sociologist by the name of David Miller, based at Strathclyde University, and co-author of “A century of spin:  How public relations became the cutting edge of corporate power” – pluto press, 2007. Jul 28 09:55
kentma http://gs.strath.ac.uk/con… Jul 28 09:56
kentma http://www.spinwatch.org/ Jul 28 09:57
schestowitz I love the intro: “David Miller is widely known for his writings on propaganda, spin and lobbying as well as for his expertise on ‘terrorism’, conflict in Ireland and Iraq, global power-politics and the Scottish political scene.  He is often called upon by the broadcast media as a commentator on media issues and regularly writes for popular media outlets.” Jul 28 09:57
schestowitz Spotted these minutes ago: Jul 28 09:57
schestowitz http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm… http://online.barrons.com/article… Jul 28 09:57
schestowitz They just try to buy more and more sources of revenue (while savings get depleted) to fake growth. Microsoft uses ‘Fan Press’ to give the impression that it has might, so so should its products. Jul 28 09:58
schestowitz I was told this by E-mail by a film producer some days ago. Microsoft is become more of a naked emperor these days, so it’s  a tad nervous. Jul 28 09:58
kentma Their finances are clearly disastrous, and they have no assets, so it’s hard to see where they can go.  Their only survival route is to buy a real going concern, but they’ll never get their margins back to where they were, though. Jul 28 10:03
kentma oh yeah – off to a prom tonight, too :-) Jul 28 10:03
kentma hehe – just seen your “war on shampoo” remark in my Digest – excellent! Jul 28 10:05
kentma I’ve had toothpaste confiscated at Gatwick. Jul 28 10:05
schestowitz Further to the above: “His current research interests include propaganda and the ‘war on terror’, corporate communications, corporate power, lobbying, the strategic use of science, corporate influences on academic work, spin and the decline of democratic governance.” Austria’s police has claimed to be spying on people usign Skype (Spyke)? Is there any ‘terror’ in Austria that I haven’t read about? Jul 28 10:06
kentma His New Scientist article speaks eloquently on tobacco funded science, and also on global-warming funded science. Jul 28 10:07
schestowitz Speaking of water poisoning andimaginary wars: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12… Jul 28 10:07
kentma ah, daft bugger. Jul 28 10:08
kentma now, what he should’ve done, is to gather a few fellow passengers, a bottle of tonic, and have a pleasant drink before boarding :-) Jul 28 10:09
schestowitz This one gets worse: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/m… Jul 28 10:09
schestowitz It was the same with other presidents. They just pack up and live one day. The Sweater Man gave a year’s notice (more actually). Jul 28 10:10
kentma odd that he’s gone to Juniper.  LIke Cisco and Microsoft, they’re playing in a world of shrinking margins and growing competition, but, in common with Cisco and contrary to Microsoft, Juniper do have some of their own hardware to sell. Jul 28 10:12
kentma the note on Cameron’s bike was funny, although I cannot condone theft, of course. Jul 28 10:13
schestowitz That’s what I thought. Apple too. Jul 28 10:14
schestowitz Microsoft thought about selling PCs and being as fearful as it is about the future it serously looked into producing chips and electricity! (posted to COLA before). There are other things like banking… don’t ask! Jul 28 10:14
kentma why do you suppose the Yellow Dog folk are continuing to supply PowerPCs? Jul 28 10:16
schestowitz HPC, I think. Jul 28 10:16
schestowitz They do Blades and they sell hardware and services. I think YDL (Terrasoft) does pretty well. Jul 28 10:16
kentma I’d be interested to know just what kind of sales they get. Jul 28 10:17
schestowitz I should mention that IBM’s blades typically run Fedora, sometimes on  PPC. YDL is a Fedora 7 deriv ATM IIRC. Jul 28 10:17
kentma My blade-centres use x86 and CGLinux… SuSE… Jul 28 10:18
schestowitz :-( Jul 28 10:18
schestowitz SUSE is used a lot by IBM in mainframes. I suppose you’ve heard about IBM’s possible involvement in the Microsoft deal? Jul 28 10:18
kentma The reason it was chosen was because Red Hat refused to offer Carrier Grade certification, and SuSE had it. Jul 28 10:19
kentma I’ve seen something on IBM – what do you have? Jul 28 10:19
schestowitz Here’s the second part: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/22/… Jul 28 10:20
schestowitz I still look forward to posting something about the way Novell markets itself. ;-) Jul 28 10:20
kentma Um, it could be a long game here – IBM have been around for a very long time, and know how to play the game.  On Novell, well, when there’s some independent confirmation… Jul 28 10:21
schestowitz I have it drafted. The good news is that awareness of Novell’s bad impact is prevalent. You can see this in the comments in several major sites. Novell is the “”bad boy”… like Oracle or Intel… or better yet: Wal-Mart. Jul 28 10:23
kentma good article, btw. Jul 28 10:25
schestowitz Ta, I wrote it quickly. I don’t think I’ll publish anything in D4at4mation for quite some time. Too many Microsoft ads. :-( Jul 28 10:26
kentma unavoidable, I think.  Microsoft have very deep pockets… Jul 28 10:28
schestowitz Look just how close Microsoft and Hollywood are: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9… Jul 28 10:28
kentma Ah, presumably MS will claim that using Vista will solve all of these “problems”. Jul 28 10:28
schestowitz How’s that Microsoft’s business anyway? They had secret meetings with the RIAA/MPAA for DRM cages and also tried to help them collect MP3 player ‘tax’. Why? It’s like an irgy of back-rubbing. Jul 28 10:28
schestowitz Yes, that’s partly *it* Jul 28 10:29
schestowitz It’s also part of that campaign they talk about in their SEC filing. They want to create a culture obsessed with “IP”… just like “War on terrorism”. Jul 28 10:29
kentma the talkbacks are quite interesting – it would appear that most people are no longer fooled by any of the arguments. Jul 28 10:30
kentma Daemonising a technology because it could be ill-used is not very sensible. Jul 28 10:30
schestowitz Well, I spoke about it to some friends yesterday. It reminded me of [H]omer’s post where he calls them “gangsters”. Jul 28 10:32
schestowitz The whole thing goes back to propaganda. Jul 28 10:32
schestowitz Another thing that I now notice in http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9442 is that reporters are forbidden from saying (owing to journa-peer pressure) that Microsoft isn’t gloriously rich. It’s part of that propaganda thing you brought up earlier. Jul 28 10:33
schestowitz I wonder if Enron and worldcom too had some sort of a pressuring mechanism to hide the weaknesses. Jul 28 10:34
kentma It works, doesn’t it? Jul 28 10:34
kentma I’m sure that they did, especially internally. Jul 28 10:34
schestowitz Well, it does. Apart from the likes of RMS (who get ridiculed for it), I’m now aware of many (maybe Lessig) who dare to just say that the government is corrupt, and so it out loud to the public. They just say truth. Jul 28 10:34
kentma If you can, you should try to read David Miller’s article in New Sci.  Here’s another example:  The International Life Science Institute, ILSI, is in fact a food-industry funded lobby group, dominated by Coca Cola, and managed to divert research into examining dietary sugars by funding the scientists in the study covertly.  It’s now banned from WHO work! Jul 28 10:37
schestowitz Margin erosion spotted: http://technology.inquirer.net/infotec… Jul 28 10:37
schestowitz Ah, well.. Coca Cola is known to be corrupt too. See RMS’ take on it… Jul 28 10:38
schestowitz Global warning… now it’s also the carriers that fight research on cancer and cellphones. What about microwaves? Jul 28 10:38
kentma I love the bit in the article where they claim they’re lowering prices to combat illegal copying, no mention of OpenOffice at all! Jul 28 10:40
schestowitz To be fair, the Linux Foundation and those other ‘industrial backers’ firght fire with fire by using the same dirty tactics. They even employed shills like Al Gillen and IDC to generate some propaganda. The LF can do to Free software what Microsoft did to computing… and it sidlines the FSF. Jul 28 10:40
schestowitz They try to counter OpenOffice.org and Web-based office suites. They also turn a blind eye to infringements in this country. Jul 28 10:40
schestowitz “Thank you, FSF, but we’ll take your code from here… oh, and replace Freedom with something called ‘enterprise open source’ and the likes of Lotus Symphony” Jul 28 10:42
kentma This was always the Eric Raymond position – that you need to engage business in the process otherwise you’ll lose the long-term game.  Personally, I think that the GPL will inevitably win, however, what ESR and LF and co might be right about is that it’s possible that the intervening period could be significantly shortened by engaging with businesses en-route. Jul 28 10:44
schestowitz The criticism here was one of propaganda and purely proprietary software under the guise of the word “Open”. Jul 28 10:45
kentma I understood your point.  My speculation is around whether the interregnum period can be shortened by appropriate business engagement. Jul 28 10:46
kentma Look at it this way, businesses *will* spend money, no matter what, wrt linux and foss.  The question is whether it’s possible to make that spend less or more damaging to foss in the long-run, even if the short-term positioning doesn’t seem ideal. Jul 28 10:47
kentma I’m not sure I /agree/ with it, rather, I’m trying to understand it. Jul 28 10:47
schestowitz That was the ESR argument. Jul 28 10:47
kentma Precisely! Jul 28 10:47
schestowitz That said, there’s another compromise at play. Jul 28 10:47
schestowitz You’re also spoiling people and diluting or masking the original message. Jul 28 10:48
schestowitz See thos: Jul 28 10:48
schestowitz http://groups.google.co.uk/group/ne… Jul 28 10:48
kentma The question would be about who is doing the compromising. Jul 28 10:49
kentma Businesses will do what they want anyway… is it possible to turn them in a helpful direction? Jul 28 10:50
schestowitz http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/mgmt/1… Jul 28 10:50
kentma I think that the BSD licence will help to keep many on board. Jul 28 10:50
schestowitz Another one… you see? Margin loss and critical massshifting the other way… :-) Jul 28 10:50
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kentma Oh, in the long-run, there’s no doubt that Microsoft had lost the moment the GPL was first published. Jul 28 10:51
kentma The combinatino of the GPL and the internet is too powerful for anyone to stop. Jul 28 10:51
schestowitz Well, the GPL begs to differs. Some businesses tried to do, as you put it, “do what they want anyway.” RMS recognised selfishness and acted to stop it with the licence, then protect it from thing like Tivoization. Jul 28 10:51
schestowitz *things Jul 28 10:52
kentma True, although I’d argue that this was patching an error in GPL, not fundamentally changing it. Jul 28 10:52
kentma GPLv3 is a bug-fixed GPLv2 Jul 28 10:52
schestowitz No, the philosophy is still the same. Jul 28 10:52
kentma Then you agree with me? Jul 28 10:52
schestowitz I had arguments about it in the WordPress mailing lists. Jul 28 10:52
schestowitz I lobbied for GPLv3 and it turned out that those who fought me were fundamentally against the GPL, just as RMS warned. Jul 28 10:53
schestowitz They use the incremental change as an opportunity to burn the effigy. Jul 28 10:53
kentma btw – it’s ironic that the Torygraph is moving to OpenOffice. Jul 28 10:53
schestowitz *LOL* never heard this one before. Jul 28 10:53
kentma on GPLv3, for me, it was a bug-fix for GPLv2.  Those who were angry were those who were either a) opposed to GPL in the first place or b) exploiting the bug in GPLv2 for business gain;  in each case, they had never really adopted the philosophy. Jul 28 10:54
schestowitz Well, they swap masters. Given the Whitehall thing, you’d think they ought to go for OOo Jul 28 10:54
schestowitz When Mcirosoft is IBMed (in a bad sense), then the battle will shit to cloud/AGPL/ASP. It’s an endless struggle because human nature is to gain control; it’s antithetical wrt GPL. Jul 28 10:55
schestowitz *shift Jul 28 10:56
kentma The advantage of google office versus openoffice is that storage & backup is handled by a 3rd party. Jul 28 10:56
kentma I agree – the AGPL is another bug-fix :-) Jul 28 10:56
kentma anyway, /me is off to get a coffee – back soon. Jul 28 10:56
schestowitz Yes, I like putting stuff online (on my server or my host’s) because it’s another safety net for points of failure. Jul 28 10:57
schestowitz Say goodnight to Zune. http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/zune-g… http://www.pmptoday.com/2008/0… Jul 28 11:00
PetoKraus who’s he? Jul 28 11:02
schestowitz Some guy who had a tattoo of “Zune” Attention whore. Jul 28 11:03
schestowitz http://tech.blorge.com/Structure%2… The beginning of the end for the Microsoft Zune Jul 28 11:03
schestowitz http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/%7Efreeculture/blog/… Zuneral this Saturday! Jul 28 11:04
schestowitz http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsana… GameStop to Stop Zune Sales Jul 28 11:04
schestowitz http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/… Zune Sales Still In the Toilet Jul 28 11:04
schestowitz http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05… Microsoft May Build a Copyright Cop Into Every Zune Jul 28 11:04
schestowitz A bit older: http://news.zdnet.com/2100… Microsoft says Zune executive will leave company Jul 28 11:04
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kentma http://openpandora.org/ Jul 28 13:08
kentma next gen ultra-mini computing Jul 28 13:08
*schestowitz looks Jul 28 13:08
schestowitz [sarcam] I can’t see a Start menu Jul 28 13:09
kentma hehe…  it looks fantastic.  600M Arm, DSP, OpenGL, 800×480 touchscreen, bluetooth, wifi, SDHC slots, qwerty kb, 10 hrs battery… it’s about perfect. Jul 28 13:09
kentma It’s a direct competitor for the Nokia N800/N810 series, but with a gaming focus. Jul 28 13:10
schestowitz Does the N700/8x use ARM? I think so.. Jul 28 13:10
kentma yes, but display is not openGL compliant, so gaming is limited. Jul 28 13:11
schestowitz Even Intel has woken up to find that portability makes their overpowered chips unneeded to many. Jul 28 13:11
kentma Arm is winning the mobility battle, just like linux is. Jul 28 13:11
schestowitz 10 billion chips sold so far. Jul 28 13:12
kentma http://openpandora.org/bigone.jpg  picture of the prototype. Jul 28 13:12
schestowitz We live in a strange world where the word “computer” means only something very specific…. not a calculator, a phone (no matter how smart)… Jul 28 13:12
schestowitz Webbook is coming too. Jul 28 13:13
schestowitz I saw this one before. It seems like a rival to that gadget you bought for your no2? Jul 28 13:13
kentma it’s the replacement – next-gen device replacing the GP2x Jul 28 13:13
schestowitz ??? Jul 28 13:14
schestowitz Different company though, right? The GP2X is made in South Korea, IIRC. Jul 28 13:15
kentma yes, GP2x was from game park holdings:  http://craig.gp2x.de/review/… Jul 28 13:17
schestowitz Microsoft has been signing some Asian embedded Linux companies… for patents. Jul 28 13:17
schestowitz It’s probably an overlooked issue because everyone is watching Novell. Jul 28 13:18
kentma I’m sure MS will continue this game for as long as software patents are supported anywhere.  The real goal must be to end that particular abomination. Jul 28 13:20
kentma On Pandora, one of the neatest things is that the design has been put together through requests from users, so the features are absolutely what people want… Jul 28 13:20
kentma sort of open-hardware development. Jul 28 13:21
schestowitz In a world of imaginary property, nothing is free (not even Free software). Hence Microsoft’s big push for reform in the wrong direction… Jul 28 13:21
kentma you’re right, though, game park do not make this, it’s more of a community effort, as far as I can tell. Jul 28 13:21
schestowitz I hope companies like Pandora reside in countries far away from Microsoft’s lobbysists (criminals) Jul 28 13:22
kentma Why doesn’t the LCD touchscreen flip / rotate for a “tablet” mode? This is actually a patented idea. Pandora could not have a hinge which either flipped all the way back or rotated without substantially increasing the cost (licensing fees) or risking a patent infringement lawsuit.   Why don’t you use a slide out keyboard like the Nokia N810? This is also patented.  A lot of the good ideas are. Jul 28 13:23
schestowitz It’s ridiculous. Isn’t there prior art? Jul 28 13:24
kentma Almost certainly… my Psion 5mx’s keyboard partially slid-out, as an example. Jul 28 13:25
kentma The trouble is that these guys just won’t have the resources to fight those battles. Jul 28 13:25
schestowitz It just comes to show that the agenda of software patents protesters ought to be part of a broader push. “Sliding keyboard” != typewriters. The complexity of patents these days is flabbergusting. Jul 28 13:25
kentma or flubbergasting Jul 28 13:26
kentma :-) Jul 28 13:26
schestowitz OLPC called for old keyboards recently… ones from 1993, IIRC. They need to fight that patent troll from Nigeria. Jul 28 13:26
schestowitz Oh, weird. I thought I’d fixed that typo. Something in my UI and lack of proofreading. Jul 28 13:27
schestowitz Microsoft patented ‘tree view’ in 95/97. Jul 28 13:27
kentma Was that the one about having a particular keytop? Jul 28 13:27
schestowitz I can’t recall. Jul 28 13:28
kentma tree view?  But that dates back to, well, almost forever, really! Jul 28 13:28
schestowitz But Groklaw linked to the request. I no longer care about OLPC. Jul 28 13:28
schestowitz Microsoft shot it and now it’s using the project, which sold out to the very same devil that killed it. Jul 28 13:28
kentma OLPC could still be a force for good things, but nobody seems very interested in it now. Jul 28 13:28
schestowitz re: tree view — yes, it’s madness. I used it as a kid. Jul 28 13:28
kentma the OLPC site  talks about free and open-source software. Jul 28 13:29
schestowitz Ha. Jul 28 13:31
schestowitz Must be out of date. Microsoft is reportedly putting final touches… Windows XP Jul 28 13:32
schestowitz Race to the past. Windows 2001 (minus lots of blubber). They’ll toss lots of money into this (even tolerate a loss) just to ensure Linux doesn’t get any traction. Jul 28 13:32
kentma but then, in a bloggy sort of posting, there is a statement that OLPCs commitment to open source and free software isn’t religious (why should it be?), but pragmatic.  It’s a wonderful, completely meaningless statement, which reads like it’s straight from the MS press office. Jul 28 13:33
kentma The impression being given that anyone into free software is also a regular church-goer, and non-foss choices are “pragmatic”. Jul 28 13:33
schestowitz Well, they changes the mission. Jul 28 13:35
kentma they go on to say that people will be “reassured” by the availability of Windows – well, why? Jul 28 13:35
schestowitz There was a good post about this at the time. The project is no longer the same and it also coughed out some people whose values made it what it is. Jul 28 13:35
kentma that said, there doesn’t seem to be any mention of Microsoft elsewhere, even in recent meeting notes, apart from in a critical way, like vista is slow, awful and supports few languages. Jul 28 13:38
schestowitz There’s that Unlimited Potential thing from Microsoft. Jul 28 13:40
schestowitz It’s the anti-Linux adoption Unit, which operated in the guise of ‘charity’. It gives freebie wherever Linux’ head crops up. Jul 28 13:41
schestowitz Microsoft has always been good at spinning nasty, predatory things as good things. Charity is just one example. There’s also DRM, spyware, EULA modifications, etc. Jul 28 13:42
kentma until Microsoft find a way of legitimately making money, that is.  Such spoilers are not sustainable in the long-term, because of the GPL. Jul 28 13:42
schestowitz True. Jul 28 13:42
schestowitz That’s why they lose a lot in terms of value. Jul 28 13:42
kentma Microsoft cannot stop the GPL, all that they can do is attempt to delay adoption, but any means that they can think of. Jul 28 13:42
schestowitz I didn’t read things carefully enough, but Rex claimed last night that their margins had fallen from 85% to just 45% Jul 28 13:43
kentma I think that they’re lost any chance of grabbing the children of the developing world, because the developed world is not adopting Vista, so the developing world will ask “why should we?”  instead, they’ll look at what the real new technologies are going to be, and will adopt them. Jul 28 13:43
kentma Interesting on Rex’s post – did he post his workings? Jul 28 13:43
schestowitz Of the numbers? Jul 28 13:44
schestowitz As for Vista and poor nations, it’s lock-in (technical and habitual) that Microsoft is after. You can’t put a price on a drag-like dependency. Jul 28 13:45
kentma I just don’t think that the developing nations have anything like the wealth Microsoft needs for its books, even if you squeeze them until they squeak, they’re still incredibly poor compared with the developed world. Jul 28 13:52
kentma Economic wealth Nos for UK: Jul 28 13:55
kentma top 1% have 23% of wealth Jul 28 13:55
kentma 5% have 43% of wealth Jul 28 13:55
kentma 10% have 56% of w. Jul 28 13:56
kentma 25% have 74% of wealth Jul 28 13:56
kentma 50% have 94% of wealth. Jul 28 13:56
kentma This is 2002 figure, and if anything, it’s crept further up, not down. Jul 28 13:56
kentma This means that the lower 50% of the population manage with just 6% of the wealth of the nation between them. Jul 28 13:57
schestowitz What’s it like in the US? Probably worse, I reckon. Jul 28 13:57
kentma Note, though, that this would include unsalaried housewifes or husbands, their children and any other dependents. Jul 28 13:57
schestowitz I hopefully don’t end up among those 50% that share 6%. :-) I compromise a lot to promote FOSS. Jul 28 13:58
schestowitz Hmmm… this is weird… http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9595-0…. Jul 28 14:02
schestowitz Click on the top to view the article. It’s not in CNET either. Jul 28 14:02
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*benJIman (n=benji@benjiweber.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Jul 28 14:32
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 28 14:38
kentma they’re hiding this stuff like made. Jul 28 14:55
kentma mad. Jul 28 14:56
schestowitz I don’t know. Other sites have similar articles, but ZDNet is owned by Microsoft. Jul 28 15:08
schestowitz (not directly) Jul 28 15:08
schestowitz Another exaple: http://www.linux.com/articles/28048 (links to ZDNet 404 … “Microsoft-China GSP Deal: Perjury OR Treachery?” ) Jul 28 15:09
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Jul 28 16:45
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@77.247.224.25) has joined #boycottnovell Jul 28 16:52
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Jul 28 19:00
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