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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 30th, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:59 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

Omar87 mhmm Dec 30 15:51
Omar87 have fun. Dec 30 15:51
schestowitz Heh. Dec 30 15:53
schestowitz Nice. We’ve just been put in the front page of Linux Today Dec 30 15:54
Omar87 Cool! Dec 30 15:55
schestowitz http://appdb.winehq.org/object… Dec 30 15:55
schestowitz We have about 10,000 hits/hour today Dec 30 15:56
schestowitz Pavel Mah (Linux Hax0r) is shout-spamming in Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Obligato… Dec 30 16:13
schestowitz I’ve only just realised this. Dec 30 16:13
schestowitz Digg has detected this behaviour and blocked it from the FP, but in the past he managed to sneak through. Dec 30 16:13
schestowitz That, to me at least, is why Digg is kaput. Front page stories are not important news, but mostly people who spam for or game the system somehow Dec 30 16:14
schestowitz In 2006, 30 legitimate Diggs would put you in the front page Dec 30 16:14
schestowitz The news that was accepted was much better. Than came the gamers and marketing people to ruins the site for everyone. Dec 30 16:15
trmanco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J… Dec 30 16:27
trmanco http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Digg_is_R… Dec 30 16:29
schestowitz Haha. Dec 30 16:29
schestowitz Watch the top!! Dec 30 16:29
schestowitz Pavel Mah Dec 30 16:29
schestowitz Talk about headshot Dec 30 16:29
schestowitz Hehe. Done watching Dec 30 16:31
schestowitz Being ‘senior’ is one thing Dec 30 16:31
schestowitz gaming is another Dec 30 16:31
schestowitz I left a comment to Pavel telling him not to shout-spam Dec 30 16:31
schestowitz Shout-spamming is why Itottally disabled this feature after it was introduced. Dec 30 16:31
schestowitz People kept spamming me asking for Diggs Dec 30 16:32
schestowitz I did like 5 interviews for people who approached me re: Digg and I told them all this. I’m surprised it’s not common knowledge. Dec 30 16:33
schestowitz Here are those guys whom you think sound like borgs: http://linuxvoid.com/2008/12/29/… Dec 30 16:34
schestowitz *who Dec 30 16:34
schestowitz : -( Debian mourns the loss of Thiemo Seufer < http://www.debian.org/News… > Dec 30 16:37
schestowitz “The Debian Project has lost an active member of its community. Thiemo Seufer died on December 26th in a tragic car accident.” Dec 30 16:37
schestowitz Lilo from freenode dies in an accident on his bike a few years ago Dec 30 16:37
schestowitz *died Dec 30 16:37
*neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 30 16:55
*kapipi (n=tor@ has joined #boycottnovell Dec 30 17:01
schestowitz wb, kapipi, neighborlee. neighborlee  Jo is out. I didn’t ask him; he just knocked himself out for losing an argument. Dec 30 17:35
neighborlee schestowitz, yup I know ;) Dec 30 17:36
schestowitz If he can’t convince others, then he quits Dec 30 17:36
neighborlee schestowitz,  hard to forget his   use of expletives, but as usual not surprising ;)) Dec 30 17:36
kapipi Thanks :-D Dec 30 17:37
neighborlee schestowitz, Jo ( and those like him) are so caught up in their push for mono and derivitives that they dont get that their language undermines their goals, though its good for us so I’d say..and on losing: he(they) lost a LONG time ago ;) Dec 30 17:38
schestowitz Remember this?  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/microso…  Well, I assume the chap is either trying to grab a bit of fame by exposing dark secrets that are now leaked or is trying to pass guilt to Microsoft. There was a little frication between him and his employer, which tried to characterise him (and his presentation) as a lone wolf, a dissident. Dec 30 17:46
schestowitz Another theory is that the guy saw all the bad publicity about him on the Web, so he tried to correct it. Maybe some life experience drove him to remorse. Dec 30 17:47
kapipi Allow me to ask: What is wrong with using mono? Dec 30 17:47
kapipi (Not that I disagree, I just don’t have any informed opinion :-) Dec 30 17:48
schestowitz There are several Dec 30 17:48
schestowitz To phrase them out roughly Dec 30 17:48
schestowitz 1) it gives Microsoft API control Dec 30 17:48
schestowitz 2) it put burden of MS-owned patents on Linux developers Dec 30 17:49
schestowitz 3) it makes Linux apps dependent on the way .NET evolves Dec 30 17:49
schestowitz 4) It gives a Microsoft ally (Novell) control. It owns Mono. Dec 30 17:49
schestowitz And so on and so forth Dec 30 17:49
kapipi Does MS own mono? Dec 30 17:50
kapipi Or are they just able to influence it strongly? Dec 30 17:50
schestowitz Why else do you think MS bloggers promote Mono? Dec 30 17:50
schestowitz In the past, MS asked them not to “because we [it]  reserves the right to sue] Dec 30 17:50
schestowitz Said Scoble Dec 30 17:51
schestowitz kapipi: Mono is a follower Dec 30 17:51
schestowitz Like Firefox follows HTML Dec 30 17:51
schestowitz IE tried to deviate from Web standards Dec 30 17:51
schestowitz It’s not easy Dec 30 17:51
kapipi But theoretically, the mono developers are free to follow a MS path or not aren’t they? Dec 30 17:53
schestowitz Tricky one here. Dec 30 17:54
schestowitz Firstly, by deviating, the whole false ‘promie about RAND-Z goes away Dec 30 17:54
schestowitz Same issue with OOXML Dec 30 17:54
schestowitz Moreover, there’s the compatibilitu and dependency issue Dec 30 17:54
schestowitz I argued over this point with Jo Shields last wek Dec 30 17:54
schestowitz *week Dec 30 17:54
kapipi Hmm, I think I’ll have to do a bit of googling, I don’t know the RAND-Z issue Dec 30 17:56
kapipi bbl :-D Dec 30 17:57
neighborlee kapipi, mono is only ‘free’ for those of novel, see here: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s… < but this is only the tip of the iceberg,,feel free to discover the facts. That and moonlight, the supposed freee version of silverlight has been solidly rejected by fedora and debian both..that and slverlight downloads ( from M$’s own site) is only for     vista and apple which says alot imho. Dec 30 18:05
neighborlee kapipi, its a issue with a very lengthy portfolio ;) Dec 30 18:05
neighborlee kapipi, that and,M$ has gone out of its way to make only it face known and hopefully used by everyone..to the extent that it trys to circumvent oss technology ( see: ooxml ), linux is  a ‘cancer’ ( ballmer comment), etc.etc…oh and that its  kinda risky using softare ( unlesss you are forced to ?) from a covicted monopolist ;) Dec 30 18:07
neighborlee as I say as you read you find out more, its all out there on google etc..:) Dec 30 18:07
schestowitz bbl Dec 30 18:32
kapipi Read the silverlight license story neighborlee posted. Meh, I hate legalese. Dec 30 18:52
neighborlee ditto ^ Dec 30 18:53
kapipi It’s hard to read, even in my native language. Dec 30 18:54
neighborlee kapipi, roy has done a great job of trying to give all the facts, comment on themand remain objective..so BN is good to stay up to date on many things, but as well feel free to google as I noted earlier Dec 30 18:54
neighborlee kapipi, yes it is Dec 30 18:55
kapipi ok Dec 30 18:55
neighborlee I hate legalese too,,its really annoying Dec 30 18:55
neighborlee I found out hard way, when having to digest my fathers will with a dear friend of mine.. Dec 30 18:55
neighborlee then another friend suggested we check out  a law d ictionary , which yielded answer we needed ;) Dec 30 18:56
neighborlee weird stuff Dec 30 18:56
kapipi I want to form my own opinion on the novell / ms issues, but, on the other hand I don’t have much time to read lengthy articles about it :-D Dec 30 18:57
kapipi I have a part time job which involves administrating novell servers, and as a student I’m doing research on a novell sponsored project (project-banshee), so I fell that  need to get at least a bit of info on the subject. Dec 30 19:00
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 30 19:03
neighborlee kapipi, not uncommon Dec 30 19:39
neighborlee kapipi,personally it not just  mono &/or moonlight per se afa its license yadda..to me anything coming from a untrusted source like MIcrosoft is automatically lacking serious credibility due to their treatment of ODF, the cancer comment by ballmer ( linux is a ‘cancer’) and the nassssty ISO incident which many countries have since objected to soundly..they just dont play ball on the same level as the rest of us. Dec 30 19:42
neighborlee kapipi, to me they are all red flags, so why should I trust microsoft to offer any kind of standards ? Dec 30 19:43
neighborlee but anyway,,read what you can and enlighten yourself. Dec 30 19:43
trmanco how are the gas prices in you country? Dec 30 19:54
neighborlee not down far enough :)) Dec 30 19:56
neighborlee but im cheap..I want the days of .35 again ! lol Dec 30 19:56
neighborlee atm I think near us, they are $1.85/gal Dec 30 19:56
neighborlee at least better than $4.89 ooooooooomgosh that was nasty Dec 30 19:57
neighborlee cheaper the further west of us you go..basically Dec 30 19:57
trmanco how much is a gallon in liters? Dec 30 19:58
neighborlee 2x I think ~ Dec 30 19:59
trmanco in my country diesel is at 0.95 € per liter Dec 30 19:59
trmanco still too expensive Dec 30 19:59
neighborlee Dec 30 19:59
neighborlee 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litres Dec 30 19:59
trmanco almost 4 Dec 30 19:59
neighborlee yup Dec 30 19:59
neighborlee yeah diesel is still nasty here Dec 30 20:00
neighborlee feel sorry for truckers Dec 30 20:00
trmanco gasoline here is more than 1€, I don’t know the exact price Dec 30 20:01
schestowitz kapipi: if you need a longer article, see http://boycottnovell.com/faq/ Dec 30 20:06
schestowitz American gallon of British gallon? Dec 30 20:08
trmanco American I guess Dec 30 20:10
schestowitz Here’s an interesting thing. Dec 30 20:18
schestowitz You ask an editor to do an article about Microsoft’s dirty trick. Dec 30 20:18
schestowitz Then, they change the subject Dec 30 20:19
schestowitz I tried to publish in the press about the AstroTurfing from Microsoft. Dec 30 20:19
schestowitz Anyway, I have another plan. I’ll do an  interview when soon when something important  comes. :-) Some of my older questions were too intrusive. I love dissecting issues and readers do too. It benefits all. But editors and suits hate it. Dec 30 20:20
schestowitz You must stick to conventional statement, but only concision can ever achieve this. If you want to express a lesser known point of view, then you must provide a lot of evidence, and this simply can’t be wrapped up briefly. Dec 30 20:21
schestowitz Here we go again. More IT Budget, Staff Cuts Expected in 2009 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156143/m… >; AMD Costs Layoffs at $70M, Can’t Say Yet About ATI Writedown < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156141/amd_cost… > Dec 30 20:22
schestowitz People didn’t say the “D” word and “L” word over Xmas, but it’ll come back shortly. Dec 30 20:23
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/156157/fry… (Fry’s Electronics VP Faces Criminal Charges and Lawsuit) Dec 30 20:24
kapipi neighborlee: but how far should you let the “untrustworthiness” reach? to novell? to novell sponsored projects? Dec 30 20:25
kapipi but yes, ms is definitely in the gray-to-black area for me Dec 30 20:27
schestowitz Mr. Neighbor has been a Mono critics for years Dec 30 20:27
schestowitz Even before the Microsoft deal. Dec 30 20:27
schestowitz *Critic (singular) Dec 30 20:28
schestowitz Next year we might have that infamous Internet disaster Lessig warned about:  Crime to boom as downturn blooms < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn… > Dec 30 20:29
schestowitz Gina Trapani’s back: http://lifehacker.com/5120228/whats-on-… Dec 30 20:30
schestowitz Hmmm… the guy who ran some OOo blog/s has a new personal one and collects donations (AndrewZ): http://bleachbit.blogspot.com/2008… Dec 30 20:40
schestowitz Could he be laid off from Sun or something? Dec 30 20:41
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… Dec 30 20:48
kapipi The linux registry cleaner myth.. must be a joke right? Dec 30 20:52
schestowitz Not really? Dec 30 20:53
schestowitz It’s like cookie cutter Dec 30 20:53
schestowitz http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… Dec 30 20:56
schestowitz It’s funny because it shows the very same person whom I mentioned earlie (Pavel) for shout-spamming, i.e. abusing, Digg. Dec 30 20:58
schestowitz As Economy Dips, Arrests for Shoplifting Soar < http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/… > Dec 30 21:02
*neighborlee_ (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 30 21:02
schestowitz Same with cybercrime of course. Dec 30 21:02
schestowitz http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/20… Why be there in the first place? Oil? Dec 30 21:03
schestowitz Carrying Gunpowder through Airport Security < http://wildbee.org/2008/12/09/carrying… >. War on nonsense. Dec 30 21:04
*neighborlee has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Dec 30 21:06
trmanco LOOL Dec 30 21:07
trmanco “I have a video on my hard drive and it won’t play as a meesage from Media Dec 30 21:07
trmanco Player says “my Digital Rights License has expired”. How can I get to play Dec 30 21:07
trmanco this video on my pc? The file is a WMV.” Dec 30 21:07
schestowitz Where from? Dec 30 21:07
trmanco http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursup… Dec 30 21:07
schestowitz I heard of people who can’t view family video because some stupid Western Digital HDD are made defective by design Dec 30 21:08
neighborlee_ kapipi, anywhere I have a choice of what software to use , I take that choice very seriously Dec 30 21:09
schestowitz I can’t link to it. Dec 30 21:09
schestowitz “Pay for it, you pirate cunt. “ Dec 30 21:09
neighborlee_ kapipi, if I knew a given car manufacturer was unworthy of my money and trust in their products, you can be sure Id look elsewhere ;) Dec 30 21:09
neighborlee_ schestowitz, woah ;) Dec 30 21:10
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, It would appear one of our US client servers have fallen off the edge of the discwo^H^H^H^H^H^Hinternet and all but vanished! We’re looking into the issue now and hope to have it back soon. Affected users ~3K. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for flying freenode! Dec 30 21:10
kapipi I’m not sure I could find any car manufacturer with a clean record. Dec 30 21:10
neighborlee_ I hope you get my point Dec 30 21:11
neighborlee_ if that means going with honda, vs ford, ill do it Dec 30 21:11
schestowitz Palamida helps the spreading of fear: http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/n… Dec 30 21:11
kapipi I do, but for me it’s more a matter of finding the lesser evil (with cars) Dec 30 21:11
schestowitz It says nothing about IE and WIndows total compromises, with exploits in the eild Dec 30 21:11
kapipi With software, it’s finding the lesser risk Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_ kapipi, and form atm anyway,the lesser evil is kde, and no mono Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_ for me ^ Dec 30 21:12
kapipi Hmm, I would not be happy to have to dump gnome. Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_ and I am not either ;)( Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_ :( Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_ very unhappy about it Dec 30 21:13
kapipi so you are dumping it based on the connections to novel? Dec 30 21:13
neighborlee_ I am Dec 30 21:13
kapipi or to mono? Dec 30 21:13
neighborlee_ yes Dec 30 21:13
neighborlee_ I wont go anywhere near it atm Dec 30 21:13
schestowitz It seems like we lost no-one in #bn because of that downtime. Dec 30 21:14
schestowitz Other channels lost some. Dec 30 21:14
neighborlee_ :) Dec 30 21:14
kapipi I don’t think I have a problem using gnome. But perhaps I am happily uninformed. Dec 30 21:15
neighborlee_ its their adoption of tomboy Dec 30 21:16
kapipi Ah my favorite app Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ and my least n eeded ;) Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ ymmv ;) Dec 30 21:16
benJIman If only it were free software so you wern’t forced to use that particular component. Dec 30 21:16
kapipi I am heavily addicted to it. Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ benJIman, correcgt Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ ect Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ kapipi, you should know there are alternatives Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ kapipi, zim etc. Dec 30 21:17
neighborlee_ zim is just as good I hear Dec 30 21:17
neighborlee_ maybe better in some regards Dec 30 21:17
neighborlee_ just fyi Dec 30 21:17
neighborlee_ bbl thx for chat as always Dec 30 21:18
kapipi Thank you too Dec 30 21:18
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-1350… Dec 30 21:22
kapipi neighborlee_: personally I would not dump gnome / tomboy on grounds of the usage of mono, to use the car allegory, you probably won’t scrap your ford when you found out the company manufactured most of Nazi germanys car park Dec 30 21:25
MinceR can they sue you for using mono without owning a suse license? Dec 30 21:26
kapipi but on the other hand I hope that the novell connections will become less problematic Dec 30 21:26
MinceR the community should disconnect from novell Dec 30 21:27
MinceR that would solve the problem Dec 30 21:27
kapipi I don’t think it’s that simple, company sponsorship can be good, but perhaps some projects needs to be more critical of the terms under which they’re sponsored. Dec 30 21:32
schestowitz SSL broken! Hackers create rogue CA certificate using MD5 collisions < http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2339 > Dec 30 21:42
MinceR some company sponsorship can be good, but you can’t expect anything good from sponsorship by micro$oft. Dec 30 21:42
neighborlee_ MinceR, even their own employees have often been bitten, as can be seen from the vista compatible mess they created..a engineer got bitten by it and their own PR sales rep said they should fix things now , rather than latre and they ignored her. Dec 30 21:45
neighborlee_ id have to google but I recall reading all about it Dec 30 21:46
neighborlee_ the engineer had purchased a high spec laptop and couldn’t run vista,,he was very disappointed it seems Dec 30 21:47
MinceR neighborlee_: is that related to some comment i’ve made? :) Dec 30 21:47
neighborlee_ no directly Dec 30 21:47
MinceR ok Dec 30 21:48
neighborlee_ but it does relate to MIcrosoft and       things coming from them needing to be held to high suspicion Dec 30 21:48
MinceR ic Dec 30 21:48
neighborlee_ <MinceR> some company sponsorship can be good, but you can’t expect anything good from sponsorship by micro$oft. < last part Dec 30 21:48
neighborlee_ reminded me I guess about those two instances. Dec 30 21:49
schestowitz Novell is funded by MS Dec 30 21:49
schestowitz The money they got from MS to f* kill(C) Linux is far more than Novell has earned from Linux /COMBINED/ Dec 30 21:49
schestowitz AFAIK Dec 30 21:49
schestowitz As in, /ever/ (since buying SUSE) Dec 30 21:50
neighborlee_ of course, its in their own interest, that moonlight and mono became a defacto standard ;)) Dec 30 21:50
schestowitz MOOX too Dec 30 21:50
neighborlee_ wth is that ;)) Dec 30 21:50
schestowitz Hence translater, go-ooxml Dec 30 21:50
neighborlee_ ahhhh Dec 30 21:51
neighborlee_ :)) Dec 30 21:51
neighborlee_ its really a shame..I like some of the things opensuse does, but they are major tainted in that mono is there by default and , last I checked, trying to remove mono usually was met with huge resistance from yast ;( Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_ but I  gotta admit I love their installer,,its amazing. Dec 30 21:52
schestowitz Gentoo Sucks, Ubuntu Doesn’t. < http://biodegradablegeek.com/2008/12/g… > Dec 30 21:52
schestowitz Blunt. Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_ and the os itself has some nice polish Dec 30 21:52
MinceR neighborlee_: can you find that article… or quote some good search terms for it? Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_ ill try Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_ its been ages since i read about it Dec 30 21:53
neighborlee_ roy might know about it  quicker, but im happy to look Dec 30 21:53
MinceR i’m not sure those things make gentoo “suck” Dec 30 21:53
MinceR if something isn’t the best, that doesn’t mean it sucks Dec 30 21:53
neighborlee_ where does gentoo come into this Dec 30 21:54
neighborlee_ did I post something in the wrong channel :( Dec 30 21:54
MinceR what schestowitz linked Dec 30 21:55
schestowitz neighborlee_: what about? Dec 30 21:55
MinceR also, lol at the site logo Dec 30 21:55
neighborlee_ ah sorry :))) Dec 30 21:55
schestowitz I wasn’t paying attention Dec 30 21:55
MinceR neighborlee_: sorry, i should have been more specific Dec 30 21:55
neighborlee_ me either :)) Dec 30 21:55
neighborlee_ lol Dec 30 21:55
neighborlee_ MinceR, haha np Dec 30 21:55
*schestowitz feels lost Dec 30 21:55
*MinceR finds schestowitz Dec 30 21:56
schestowitz Lost in translation…  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335266/ good film BTW. Dec 30 21:56
schestowitz A man finds that there’s life beyond the mundane rubbish. Dec 30 21:56
schestowitz eWeek ran out of editor. Dec 30 21:58
schestowitz Now it runs out of materia Dec 30 21:58
schestowitz They have nothing to post, they they repost comments as an ‘article’: http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/News/Vista-V… Dec 30 21:58
schestowitz Eweek = ZIff|Gates=bankrupt Dec 30 21:58
schestowitz Here’s the thing Dec 30 21:59
schestowitz I see a headline with that “Linux killer” BS again Dec 30 21:59
schestowitz I don’t click on it and won’t feed it, BUT Dec 30 21:59
schestowitz These are ADULTS who write this rubbish. Dec 30 21:59
schestowitz And this is news? Dec 30 21:59
schestowitz This is aggregated by Google News? Supposedly professional reporters write like a bunch of kids with toys about Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux and “”Linux is teh s0cks” Dec 30 22:00
schestowitz It’s pathetic that whitepapers no longer find fanciers… articles get shorter too Dec 30 22:01
schestowitz Those who tried to stick to old article format die trying Dec 30 22:01
neighborlee_ http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic… Dec 30 22:01
schestowitz So people just read headline, sound bites and maybe summarise. Just loook at Digg. it’s all just inane one-liners Dec 30 22:01
neighborlee_ not what I was looking for specifically but its definitely bizarre,,maybe roy already posted something on this o_0 Dec 30 22:01
schestowitz Old news Dec 30 22:02
schestowitz I posted lots about it Dec 30 22:02
schestowitz Search BN for “collusion” Dec 30 22:02
schestowitz Intel is a criminal company too. Dec 30 22:02
schestowitz And I had to argue and justify that statement to people: http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/28267/ Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz If you say “SCO is corrupt”, everyone nods Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz If you say “Saddam is evil”, people accept it. Dec 30 22:03
neighborlee_ ah ic ok Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz But if you say “Intel is a ciminal organisation” people gasp and yell at ya Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz You can’t offer a concise argument Dec 30 22:03
neighborlee_ sad but yeah Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz People know too little Dec 30 22:03
schestowitz So you must provide long justification Dec 30 22:04
schestowitz Concision won’t cut it Dec 30 22:04
neighborlee_ yeah Dec 30 22:04
schestowitz Had I said it about MS at Lxer, that would be conventional, conformist Dec 30 22:04
neighborlee_ the hastles of being a good reporter indeed Dec 30 22:04
schestowitz It’s time to show more people what Intel is made of and what it does Dec 30 22:04
schestowitz People who read Groklaw and BN know better about Intel Dec 30 22:04
neighborlee_ its good we have solid sources if information to make decisions indeed Dec 30 22:05
neighborlee_ if/of Dec 30 22:05
schestowitz I gave good sources Dec 30 22:06
schestowitz In the LXer thread Dec 30 22:06
schestowitz People were quiet afterwards (in comparison) Dec 30 22:06
MinceR 231626 <@schestowitz> These are ADULTS who write this rubbish. Dec 30 22:07
trmanco what is a zealot? Dec 30 22:07
MinceR for a particular definition of adult, that is Dec 30 22:07
MinceR i’d say most of the human population aren’t really “adults” Dec 30 22:07
neighborlee_ MinceR, sadly, this is why ‘vote of the people’ isn’t always what it may seem ;)) Dec 30 22:08
schestowitz MinceR: fair point, m8 Dec 30 22:08
MinceR neighborlee_: indeed Dec 30 22:08
schestowitz trmanco: zealot is passionate about something Dec 30 22:08
MinceR we can’t expect reasonable government from the material we have to work with. Dec 30 22:08
schestowitz But zealot has a connotation Dec 30 22:08
schestowitz Like the word propagadna Dec 30 22:08
neighborlee_ MinceR, agreed,,sadly. Dec 30 22:08
schestowitz propaganda connotation = Goebbels Dec 30 22:09
neighborlee_ schestowitz, it sure does ;) Dec 30 22:09
schestowitz zealot connotation = Muslim Dec 30 22:09
trmanco schestowitz, ok thanks Dec 30 22:09
schestowitz That post about MS shills triggered a nerve, so we’ll do over 200,000 hits today Dec 30 22:10
schestowitz And another record month, despite it being a ‘holiday’ month. Dec 30 22:11
schestowitz Rare new image of Carla: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.p… Dec 30 22:15
neighborlee_ schestowitz, woah ; Dec 30 22:17
neighborlee_ :) Dec 30 22:17
schestowitz 2004: The Future of Linux is Proprietary  http://www.osnews.com/story/5612/Th… Dec 30 22:17
schestowitz Debian goes to the polls < http://lwn.net/Articles/311695/ > Speaking of voting and adults, didn’t some flamer call Debian devs “kids” 2 years ago? Dec 30 22:18
schestowitz I can’t find the articles. Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ thats why I fight for this..linux to me is about   freedom of use and freedom of obtaining, as not everyone is rich enough to purchase such things, we must look out for those who have less in this world or we dont deserve its ‘riches’ ..thats my take on it anyway ;) Dec 30 22:19
schestowitz Fedora has just gotten a new board too. I posted this to BN this afternoon Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ well I hope they fix the dvd mono issue Dec 30 22:19
schestowitz We need Groklaw back. fast! Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ its gone entirely ??? Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ or just restructuring Dec 30 22:19
schestowitz I don’t know. Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ k Dec 30 22:19
schestowitz Hopefully not. Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_ ditto Dec 30 22:19
schestowitz Software can be a commodity around which to build services Dec 30 22:20
schestowitz I don’t know if you noticed, but I’m posting some videos from Brazil among the links Dec 30 22:20
schestowitz The company, 4Linux, points out that Brazil would be broke if it needed to pay for infringing s/w it uses. Dec 30 22:20
schestowitz You hear it from their point of video Dec 30 22:21
schestowitz No phones in some offices, growing beans and chicken Dec 30 22:21
schestowitz They moved to GNU/Linux pretty fast Dec 30 22:21
schestowitz Microsoft is covering this up Dec 30 22:21
schestowitz So the videos bring this issue to light Dec 30 22:21
schestowitz I’ve also just posted Revolution OS. See front page. Dec 30 22:22
neighborlee_ ahhhh ,,very nice about brazil..perfectly makes my point nicely Dec 30 22:22
schestowitz I’m assumng people have time for some films while on vacation and this film is fair to GNU and all… Dec 30 22:22
schestowitz I think this is the part of most relevance: http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv120_sp_… Dec 30 22:23
neighborlee_ checking Dec 30 22:23
neighborlee_ easier to see why ibm is target LOL Dec 30 22:25
neighborlee_ oh boy Dec 30 22:26
schestowitz Yes, they don’t fight it. Dec 30 22:31
schestowitz They sell hardware Dec 30 22:31
schestowitz There’s hardly Free hardware Dec 30 22:31
schestowitz Modifying HDDs and CPUs without a factory can be hard :-) Dec 30 22:31
schestowitz We asked RMS about it in Manchester, IIRC. His answer was that it’s a limit Dec 30 22:31
neighborlee_ :) Dec 30 22:31
schestowitz But to implement antifeatures at h/w level is hard. Dec 30 22:32
neighborlee_ not sure I get what you mean..a limit ? Dec 30 22:32
schestowitz Not sure why I said so, either. “Limitation” is better Dec 30 22:33
neighborlee_ ah Dec 30 22:41
schestowitz SAAS is another problem Dec 30 22:44
neighborlee_ great video stuff , thx for reference, Ill finish it a tad later after download done Dec 30 22:45
schestowitz Which video. Rev OS? Dec 30 22:49
*schestowitz np “The Carpenters – Rainy Days And Mondays” Dec 30 22:50
neighborlee_ hanging around…:) Dec 30 22:58
neighborlee_ http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv120_sp_… < this one Dec 30 23:00
schestowitz There are more Dec 30 23:00
schestowitz I can’t recall which one says what Dec 30 23:00
neighborlee_ schestowitz, I have most of their albums, but their xmas albums are some of my most cherrished..karen voices and xmas are like ONE :) Dec 30 23:00
neighborlee_ ah Dec 30 23:00
neighborlee_ ibm and linux thing Dec 30 23:00
schestowitz That’s the thing about video which is misfortunate Dec 30 23:01
schestowitz It’s hard to tag or search them for phrases Dec 30 23:01
neighborlee_ ah yes Dec 30 23:01
schestowitz So all you have is a reel and some numbers Dec 30 23:01
neighborlee_ no biggie Dec 30 23:01
schestowitz Good luck finding a certain you think of in one hour of footage Dec 30 23:01
schestowitz My sister has their albums. Dec 30 23:01
neighborlee_ :) Dec 30 23:02
schestowitz She has loads of video tapes too Dec 30 23:02
neighborlee_ even karen carpenter: solo album ? ;) Dec 30 23:02
neighborlee_ ditto Dec 30 23:02
neighborlee_ I moderate the carpenters list on yahoo Dec 30 23:02
neighborlee_ and started it actually Dec 30 23:02
schestowitz neighborlee_: I don’t know. I can’t recall. Dec 30 23:03
schestowitz Yahoosoft? Dec 30 23:03
schestowitz Free labour for the Vole… Dec 30 23:03
schestowitz j/k only search might be up for sale. Dec 30 23:03
neighborlee_ lol Dec 30 23:04
neighborlee_ yeah Dec 30 23:04
schestowitz You could have organise FOSS projects and info Dec 30 23:07
schestowitz Those companies like Yahoo look for free labour Dec 30 23:07
schestowitz Digg too Dec 30 23:07
schestowitz They give an ‘open’ sandbox for people to play with and do mass collaboration/peer production for them Dec 30 23:07
schestowitz Some say this is de facto Web 2.0 — whatever that is. Dec 30 23:08
schestowitz Eityher way, that’s how sites are built fast. Suckers who do work that some company proftits from. Dec 30 23:08
schestowitz It’s prossible to advance freedom with one’s free time as well. Dec 30 23:08
neighborlee_ yup Dec 30 23:14
neighborlee_ sandbox huh Dec 30 23:14
schestowitz Yup. Old news: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1783 Dec 30 23:22
neighborlee_ sigh…of course they would test in brazil etc…imagine that ;) Dec 30 23:23
neighborlee_ ugh Dec 30 23:23
schestowitz To fight win 98? ;-) Dec 30 23:24
neighborlee_ the pay as you go thing Dec 30 23:25
schestowitz Yes, I know Dec 30 23:26
schestowitz Brazil is a problematic country to the Vole Dec 30 23:26
neighborlee_ quite Dec 30 23:27
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclien… Dec 30 23:27
neighborlee_ so have you been wii’ified yet,,sister, anyone in family ? :) Dec 30 23:27
*neighborlee_ is a major wii dude Dec 30 23:27
neighborlee_ o_0 Dec 30 23:27
neighborlee_ stoked that I know have super mario galaxy ;) Dec 30 23:28
neighborlee_ know/now o_0 Dec 30 23:28
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-101… People are no longer new to the nation of ‘open source’, so they search for more specific thing. Same with ‘Linux’. Dec 30 23:31
schestowitz People who use Google Trends for stats either misunderstand or don’t want to understand statistic. See for example a graph of ‘ubunu’ and ‘Linux’, It’s an issue of granularity and brand recognition. Dec 30 23:31
schestowitz *notion; *statistics Dec 30 23:32
neighborlee_ sadly Dec 30 23:32
schestowitz This is probably true but obvious: http://ostatic.com/blog/buyouts-an… Dec 30 23:34
schestowitz http://jbcobb.net/?p=205 Dec 30 23:34
neighborlee_ ah yes it becomes alot more clear now..o f course they didn’t want to agree to ODF, when they could go with their own xml/office :) Dec 30 23:34
neighborlee_ sigh Dec 30 23:35
neighborlee_ no matter..odf is popular even with united nations ;) Dec 30 23:35
*neighborlee_ is now known as neighborlee Dec 30 23:40
*[H]omer has quit (“reset by beer”) Dec 30 23:50
schestowitz Breast-Feeding Photo Brouhaha Shows How Impossible It Is To Rate Websites < http://techdirt.com/articles/200… > Dec 30 23:53
schestowitz And this patent I wrote about earlier.. 3D Virtual Worlds Patented! Lawsuits Started… < http://techdirt.com/articles/20081230/01… > Dec 30 23:55
neighborlee id have to see the pictures to comment Dec 30 23:59
schestowitz Check out the image on the right: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/12/marke… Dec 30 23:59
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