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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 29th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:31 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

_Hicham_ that is MS problem Mar 29 13:19
_Hicham_ and that is why they created codeplex Mar 29 13:19
_Hicham_ to gather a community around them Mar 29 13:20
_Hicham_ and start cutting off jobs Mar 29 13:20
_Hicham_ it is a shift in strategy Mar 29 13:20
oiaohm Problem MS has is what all open source project have. Mar 29 13:20
oiaohm Cloning. Mar 29 13:21
oiaohm Even splashtop has its clones. Mar 29 13:21
_Hicham_ r u talking about ReactOS? Mar 29 13:21
oiaohm They can only cut there internals so far before there model fails. Mar 29 13:21
oiaohm Ie enough released that there key products can be cloned. Mar 29 13:21
oiaohm Splashtop knew that from the start. Mar 29 13:22
oiaohm Providing support and good quality support is key. Mar 29 13:22
oiaohm MS has not restructured anywhere near enough yet. Mar 29 13:23
_Hicham_ what are MS key products? Mar 29 13:23
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oiaohm Server side.  active directory, sharepoint, exchange. Mar 29 13:24
oiaohm All three provide vendor lockin. Mar 29 13:24
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 29 13:24
oiaohm Client side mostly MS Office. Mar 29 13:24
oiaohm MS in theory could live quite well without Windows. Mar 29 13:25
oiaohm But they would have to extract a lot more money elsewhere. Mar 29 13:25
oiaohm All three of the server side is under attack _Hicham_ Mar 29 13:26
_Hicham_ but Windows Development costs them a lot of money Mar 29 13:27
_Hicham_ do u mean that they can stop developing Windows? Mar 29 13:27
oiaohm MS really depends on the lockin to sell windows. Mar 29 13:29
oiaohm Like samba is working on cloning the Active Directory.  So ADS server would not be required any more when that happens.  If something like freeipa intergrates with it.  There would be no management difference between windows and Linux. Mar 29 13:30
oiaohm sharepoint has alfresco competing with it. Mar 29 13:31
_Hicham_ suppose that Microsoft lost its server market share Mar 29 13:31
_Hicham_ could it live without it? Mar 29 13:31
oiaohm Nop. Mar 29 13:31
oiaohm If MS does not control the server why would people use there more expensive products. Mar 29 13:32
oiaohm Exchange holds it place due to no good competitor to outlook on windows. Mar 29 13:32
oiaohm MS is basically a card tower. Mar 29 13:33
_Hicham_ so they depends on Windows Development Mar 29 13:33
_Hicham_ they must continue developing and selling Windows Mar 29 13:33
oiaohm This is the problem MS has a min overhead. Mar 29 13:34
oiaohm Go under that min overhead die. Mar 29 13:34
oiaohm Competitors against them have way lower min overheads. Mar 29 13:35
schestowitz zer0c00l: “BTW anvar sadath responded now saying that it is the recognition to all Free Softweare Community.  But He didn’t mentioned it in acceptance speech quoted on ODF alliance Press Release &  Local media coverage. [...]  ODF adoption started when Debina etch supported ODF. we uses custom Debian Distro. Even before that we were using Open Office . Anwar was not the director at that time” Mar 29 13:37
schestowitz Spinners… typical Softies Mar 29 13:37
schestowitz oiaohm: +1 (re: sub-notebooks) Mar 29 13:39
schestowitz oiaohm: I think they charge $5, not $4 Mar 29 13:39
schestowitz That’s what I heard Mar 29 13:39
schestowitz About factories in China and what they pay for Windows Mar 29 13:40
oiaohm Was 5 about 1 month ago. Mar 29 13:40
schestowitz oiaohm: reference for 5 people in Splashtop dev team?? Mar 29 13:40
oiaohm Chat with owner. Mar 29 13:41
oiaohm About 6 months ago. Mar 29 13:41
oiaohm So might be out of date. Mar 29 13:41
schestowitz Would Office run on sub-notebooks? Mar 29 13:41
oiaohm Most of what they do is assemble and test work. Mar 29 13:41
schestowitz I came across this isssue Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz MSO 09 and 07 are too bloated Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz Like Vista vs XP.. Mar 29 13:42
oiaohm Depends on the sub notebook Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz So Microsoft now needs devs to trim it down Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz Buti… Mar 29 13:42
oiaohm some of the new ones coming out yes. Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz Would it be COMPATIBLE (MOOX)? Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz Does MS charge for Office on sub-notebooks? Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz Like.. what? $500? Mar 29 13:42
schestowitz For a $200 PC? Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz *LOL* Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz No ODF support even.. Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz And sluggish.. Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz Gates famously said people wouild pay more for s/w than for h/w Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz But for /WHAT/ software? Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz Windows XP from 2001? :-D Mar 29 13:43
oiaohm That is the other problem MS has. Mar 29 13:43
schestowitz $5 apiece.. Mar 29 13:44
oiaohm For a long time open source has been fighting with one arm tied behind there back. Mar 29 13:44
schestowitz Would you like to supersize it? Mar 29 13:44
schestowitz “That’ll be another $5″ Mar 29 13:44
oiaohm Ie gcc cannot optimise well for anything. Mar 29 13:44
schestowitz With Cola and fries.. Mar 29 13:44
oiaohm That should disappear in the next 12 months. Mar 29 13:44
schestowitz Buy happy meal… get XP… Mar 29 13:44
oiaohm Making MS base complier a poorer complier than GCC. Mar 29 13:45
oiaohm So code optimisation is going to become key. Mar 29 13:45
oiaohm Again blowing there operating costs out. Mar 29 13:45
schestowitz I’ll raise concerns with E-mails regarding ODF without mentioning names.. Mar 29 13:46
schestowitz oiaohm: some company can make optimised GNU/Linux Mar 29 13:47
schestowitz Possible, not ideal Mar 29 13:47
schestowitz You are still given the source code Mar 29 13:47
schestowitz But GNU faces this competitive LOOPHOLE Mar 29 13:47
oiaohm MS using the same complier Mar 29 13:47
schestowitz As in, you cannot quite ensure level-playing field… Mar 29 13:47
oiaohm Still does not save them from work. Mar 29 13:47
schestowitz For one guy vs RHT Mar 29 13:48
oiaohm Open source is not 1 guy. Mar 29 13:48
schestowitz Isn’t CentOS annoying a company like Portland compiler’ Mar 29 13:48
schestowitz *piler’s Mar 29 13:48
oiaohm MS builds there OS with there own complier. Mar 29 13:49
oiaohm If they are forced to buy like portland to stay ahead it still more overhead. Mar 29 13:49
oiaohm Simple problem MS has here is overhead. Mar 29 13:49
oiaohm Distributed  development open source has reduces the costs on there competitors. Mar 29 13:50
_Hicham_ MS have to support its own products Mar 29 13:50
_Hicham_ it can’t use another compiler Mar 29 13:50
_Hicham_ they used to use FreeBSD for their Hotmail servers Mar 29 13:53
_Hicham_ but was a long time ago, when the company was still young Mar 29 13:53
amarsh04 restarting, trying 2.6.29 kernel with package linux-firmware Mar 29 13:59
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) Mar 29 14:01
schestowitz Good luck to Anthony… Mar 29 14:02
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-168-159.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 29 14:10
*Eruaran (n=quassel@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 29 14:17
Eruaran hello Mar 29 14:25
_Hicham_ wb Eruaran Mar 29 14:25
Eruaran hi _Hicham_ Mar 29 14:26
schestowitz Hey Mar 29 14:29
Eruaran hi Roy Mar 29 14:30
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 29 14:35
Eruaran any news ? Mar 29 14:35
_Hicham_ Roy : ur current is the main editor of boycottnovell.com? Mar 29 14:36
_Hicham_ i mean ur current job Mar 29 14:37
zer0c00l darn firegpg crashes firefox :( Mar 29 14:41
_Hicham_ Bill Gates is again the richest man on Earth Mar 29 14:41
schestowitz _Hicham_: it’s just Shane and I Mar 29 14:45
schestowitz /man/thief/ Mar 29 14:45
schestowitz zer0c00l: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… Mar 29 15:03
*zer0c00l looks Mar 29 15:08
schestowitz Pls report typos Mar 29 15:09
*Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 29 15:09
schestowitz Here’s a little story for you… Mar 29 15:10
schestowitz Someone told me: “This one may have triggered MS move against ZDNet: http://blogs.zdnet.com/th… It’s gone from the author’s web site as well, disappearing sometime in the last 11 months. You can probably still find it with the wayback machine, but I suppose it is a matter of time before even that makes it to Bill’s memory hole.” Mar 29 15:10
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Mar 29 15:11
schestowitz I tried finding why it was removed. Mar 29 15:11
schestowitz “The reason is likely the title and the content,” my friend told me Mar 29 15:11
schestowitz So I asked, “”Is there any reason why the article from  http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatc… can no longer be found?”” Mar 29 15:11
schestowitz The author then told me: “WHen I stopped blogging for ZDNET I removed that post because it is the most linked to and popular and pulbished at thisisby.us  Which just went out of business.  Thanks for pointing this out.  I will repost to ThreatChaos.com today.” Mar 29 15:11
schestowitz But will that rescue the LINK? Mar 29 15:12
schestowitz A lot of people linked to the ZDNET article Mar 29 15:12
schestowitz But it’s no longer there! :-o :-o Mar 29 15:12
schestowitz So here you have another piece of damning proof that IIS and Windows are security garbage… and the evidence pretty much vanishes Mar 29 15:12
twitter I had trouble with the internet archive’s wayback machine yesterday. Mar 29 15:12
twitter It gave me a cache error. Mar 29 15:13
twitter works today.  :) Mar 29 15:14
schestowitz They migrate Mar 29 15:18
schestowitz To Solaris Mar 29 15:18
schestowitz Fewer racks too Mar 29 15:18
schestowitz Wlow. Digg really decline Mar 29 15:18
schestowitz Given the timeouts and error, no surprise there. Mar 29 15:18
schestowitz They shot themselves in the foot with those problems… even trmanco has these. Mar 29 15:19
schestowitz Their estimates ranks sank Mar 29 15:19
schestowitz Turns out that BN did over 6GB of traffic yesterday, despite it being a Saturday and making no front pages Mar 29 15:20
twitter Ahhhh!  Internet Archive on Solaris?  Open Solaris? Mar 29 15:22
schestowitz ‘Open”? Mar 29 15:22
schestowitz The Sun is getting in my face right now Mar 29 15:22
schestowitz the real sun Mar 29 15:22
twitter OpenSolaris is an X86 branch Sun has toyed with for a few years. Mar 29 15:22
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 29 15:23
twitter The article is already gone from the Internet Archive.  It may never have been captured. Mar 29 15:23
twitter The index jumps from 294 to 330, I think.  Do you remember the date or title? Mar 29 15:24
twitter Did you capture the article for yourself? Mar 29 15:24
schestowitz Exit route from MSO: http://optolog.com/971.html Mar 29 15:25
schestowitz But it can also be used to market MSO, so I dunno. Mar 29 15:25
schestowitz twitter: he’ll respost it Mar 29 15:26
twitter cool Mar 29 15:26
schestowitz Heh. Someone just posted this in Miixx: http://consumerist.com/5184514/ema… Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz “Bill Gates, Chairman of the Board -billg@microsoft.com Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz Steve Ballmer, CEO – steve@microsoft.com / (425) 706-8448 Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz J. Allard, CTO – jallard@microsoft.com Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz Robert Bach, President, Entertainment and Devices Division – rbach@microsoft.com Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz Joe Belfiore, Corporate VP, Entertainment and Devices eHome Division – joeb@microsoft.com Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz Kathleen Hogan, Corporate VP, Worldwide Customer Service – khogan@microsoft.com” Mar 29 15:27
schestowitz So now you know who to complain to. Mar 29 15:28
schestowitz Tell Robert Bach about the SEC violations he committed for example Mar 29 15:28
schestowitz Inside-trading… stealing from MSFT investors Mar 29 15:28
_Hicham_ Roy Schestwitz is the richest man on Earth Mar 29 15:29
_Hicham_ in 2020 Mar 29 15:30
schestowitz What?!? No. Mar 29 15:34
_Hicham_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0B-… Mar 29 15:36
schestowitz Activism doesn’t pay. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/… Mar 29 15:36
schestowitz CNNNN… Mar 29 15:37
schestowitz *LOL* Fantastic Mar 29 15:38
_Hicham_ do u see how aware is American Society? Mar 29 15:39
twitter these are the same addresses we’ve seen in the anti trust literature Mar 29 15:39
schestowitz “he’s from  Texas, he’s got to be right…” Mar 29 15:42
_Hicham_ what do u think of that Roy? Mar 29 15:42
schestowitz _Hicham_: not news to me :-) Mar 29 15:42
schestowitz But they cut just the bits that fit the humour Mar 29 15:42
schestowitz Cherry-picking in post editing. Mar 29 15:42
_Hicham_ that what makes America strong Mar 29 15:42
schestowitz _Hicham_: I enjoyed this video Mar 29 15:42
schestowitz Yes, ignorance Mar 29 15:43
schestowitz Fox Noooz Mar 29 15:43
_Hicham_ well, MS customers are all like that Mar 29 15:43
_Hicham_ how will u convince them Roy? Mar 29 15:44
_Hicham_ at some point Windows Developers are like that Mar 29 15:44
_Hicham_ how can u convince such people Roy Mar 29 15:45
_Hicham_ give me a concrete plan Mar 29 15:45
_Hicham_ i u were to convince these people to use Linux Mar 29 15:45
_Hicham_ tell me Mar 29 15:45
_Hicham_ imagine urself in front of one of those Mar 29 15:45
twitter You don’t have to imagine, just take a camera outside. Mar 29 15:46
twitter It does not matter where you are, the results will be the same. Mar 29 15:47
schestowitz twitter: see Homesteaders in the Hood < http://www.slate.com/id/2214544/… > Mar 29 15:47
schestowitz _Hicham_: same problem Mar 29 15:47
schestowitz Brainwash Mar 29 15:47
schestowitz It’s powerful Mar 29 15:47
twitter the cure is knowledge, which comes from freedom. Mar 29 15:48
schestowitz John posted the following to BN just minutes ago: “This is why many religious extremists oppose education – it’s easy to control the ignorant. ” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/… Mar 29 15:48
schestowitz Remember that some say that 89% of the population of the US is religious Mar 29 15:48
schestowitz In the sense that it believes in God anyway Mar 29 15:48
twitter It’s easy to get stupid answers from people when you shock them with a camera and world audience. Mar 29 15:48
schestowitz And they still mis-educate kids Mar 29 15:48
schestowitz About all sorts of things Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz And then there’s television Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz People ask why we debate politics Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz Well, it has a lot to do with Microsoft Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz Becuase of: 1) parallels; 2) Microsoft’s political games Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz The latter is scarcely covered in the media Mar 29 15:49
schestowitz Show in an article in CNN for example where they discuss an OOXML corruption (just one among many) from Microsoft Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz It’s unheard of Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz They write about Dolphins and Bush’s ranch. Mar 29 15:50
twitter TV news is dying. Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz Aye Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz But they fight back Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz They want to still public money to keep themselvbes alive Mar 29 15:50
twitter they can’t fight a lack of advertisers. Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz Creating the illusion that they are accurate Mar 29 15:50
schestowitz And misportraying YouTUbe too (I posted a link earlier) Mar 29 15:51
schestowitz If someone disagrees with them, they use labels like “Radicals” or “crackpot” Mar 29 15:51
twitter yes, broadcast is toxic like that. Mar 29 15:51
twitter it will take generations to heal Mar 29 15:52
twitter but it’s happening. Mar 29 15:52
schestowitz They make enocmies Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz *Enemies Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz For national reasons Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz Microsoft always looks for threats too Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz Like Google, Linux.. Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz Then attacks it Mar 29 15:53
schestowitz At a national level it’s also to do with keeping internal affairs in check Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz In order to maintain local stability you must distract Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz So you make external enemies Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz Like Red Threat, China, Islam… Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz Then you have people fight those imaginary enemies Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz Instead of unite and fight for democracy Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz This way corporocracy can be preserved Mar 29 15:54
schestowitz You just need to divert hatred towards outsiders Mar 29 15:55
schestowitz Then attack them and have the popultion always feel ‘under war’ Mar 29 15:55
schestowitz This leads to less demands, more obedience, patriotism Mar 29 15:55
twitter OK, I have my answer Mar 29 15:59
schestowitz Enablement of laws for banishment of stuff is another valuable mechanism… PATRIOT act and all.. Mar 29 15:59
twitter -> (10:53:05 AM) _Hicham_: well, MS customers are all like that Mar 29 15:59
twitter -> (10:53:14 AM) _Hicham_: how will u convince them Roy? Mar 29 15:59
twitter All people are like this.  M$ works hard to keep them that way. Mar 29 16:00
twitter It’s easy to convince people Mar 29 16:00
twitter just show them something better. Mar 29 16:00
schestowitz Not always enough Mar 29 16:00
schestowitz You have lock-in Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz technical and habitual as I like to call it Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz Technical = different formats/protocols Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz Habitual = as Linus put is “better is worse if it’s different” Mar 29 16:01
twitter lock in is painful, the solution is to move.  the sooner they move the better off they are Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz Yes Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz GNU has articles about all these things Mar 29 16:01
schestowitz But people are busy watching Fox Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz I mean, not engineers Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz People Mar 29 16:02
twitter Windoze is different every two years or so, just for the sake of it. Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz Learning about how White Knight Gatessaves kittens Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz Because the money drives perception Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz Since at least 1920. Mar 29 16:02
schestowitz You could even turn women to smokers Mar 29 16:03
schestowitz I.e. assassinate them slowly for cash Mar 29 16:03
schestowitz And get away with it Mar 29 16:03
twitter talking to people works, your publication works, the truth is working Mar 29 16:03
schestowitz Podiums are another thing Mar 29 16:03
schestowitz YouTube is massive. Mar 29 16:03
twitter every time M$ puts up a roadblock, they wreck something useful and make a new oportunity Mar 29 16:04
schestowitz Wtach this talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Mar 29 16:04
schestowitz I watched it last night Mar 29 16:04
schestowitz Therein he talks about how Google gives people a good platform Mar 29 16:04
schestowitz To reach millions of people within a day Mar 29 16:05
twitter people may be ignorant, harassed and angry about a lot of things but they are NOT STUPID. Mar 29 16:05
schestowitz And the Big Boyz don’t like it, obviously Mar 29 16:05
schestowitz Another thing is fair use and mashup that makes it legal to produce professional videos quickly. Mar 29 16:05
twitter reliance on Google and other third parties is not good.  it gives a single throat to strangle Mar 29 16:06
twitter youtube is a good beginning but we need real network freedom Mar 29 16:06
schestowitz http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.c… (Phished by Visa) Mar 29 16:07
schestowitz twitter: there are other services like Google’s YouTube Mar 29 16:07
schestowitz The thing is, we need net neutrality Mar 29 16:07
schestowitz Not having ISPs interfere with Web video Mar 29 16:07
schestowitz Then you can have services that are run like P2P for streaming Mar 29 16:08
schestowitz Does such a thing already exist? Mar 29 16:08
schestowitz Like Ogg streaming that’s distributed and decentralised (and encrypted of course)? Mar 29 16:08
schestowitz If not, then balzac should take a look at it Mar 29 16:08
schestowitz It’s a goof idea right there. Mar 29 16:08
schestowitz *good Mar 29 16:08
_Hicham_ u should put a streaming server on boycottnovell.com Mar 29 16:14
_Hicham_ to broadcast a live stream Mar 29 16:14
_Hicham_ the US will extend terrorism notion Mar 29 16:15
_Hicham_ to include more people Mar 29 16:15
_Hicham_ and u may be called a terrorist some day Roy Mar 29 16:15
twitter we should all be able to host video Mar 29 16:19
twitter and share Mar 29 16:20
twitter that’s what p2p is about Mar 29 16:20
twitter cable companies blocked basic web services.  p2p filled the gap. Mar 29 16:20
twitter the war will continue until the broadcasters go bankrupt Mar 29 16:21
twitter even then, governments may fight on Mar 29 16:21
twitter broadcasters already have powerful laws to use against people who share, regardless of who “owns” what’s being shared. Mar 29 16:22
_Hicham_ P2P broadcasting is really great Mar 29 16:23
_Hicham_ I can’t wait to see that Mar 29 16:23
twitter you don’t have to wait, just go download what you want to watch Mar 29 16:23
schestowitz twitter: yes, we can do a video server Mar 29 16:24
schestowitz But only for stuff we produce Mar 29 16:24
schestowitz You can’t just copy from other sites Mar 29 16:24
twitter that was hicham’s idea Mar 29 16:24
schestowitz _Hicham_: yes, terrorism means those who make us (country leaders) afraid Mar 29 16:24
twitter yes, it’s a shame that you have to ask permission to share video Mar 29 16:24
schestowitz Going by the strict defintion of the word “terrorism”, the US is a leading terrorist state Mar 29 16:25
schestowitz Based on its deeds alone Mar 29 16:25
twitter I want to be able to share videos right from my house. Mar 29 16:25
schestowitz It uses fear to accoplish goals Mar 29 16:25
_Hicham_ what is the definition of “terrorism”? Mar 29 16:25
twitter I pay for bandwith and would like to be able to use it as I please. Mar 29 16:25
schestowitz And it demotes leaders using their fear of violence if it does not like them. Mar 29 16:25
schestowitz /s/of/or/ Mar 29 16:25
_Hicham_ there is no standard definition Mar 29 16:26
_Hicham_ what is known is the US definition Mar 29 16:26
schestowitz It would be nice if more Americans came to this realisation Mar 29 16:26
schestowitz And tried to reform the bahaviour of their government Mar 29 16:26
schestowitz Many people  voice this view publicly Mar 29 16:26
_Hicham_ US have redefined terrorism after 9/11 Mar 29 16:26
schestowitz It’s rather normal these days, but not in Fox when it’s dissently and marginalised Mar 29 16:26
_Hicham_ and the terrorism that we know, is the pre-9/11 notion Mar 29 16:27
schestowitz _Hicham_: the definition you can find from US military. Mar 29 16:27
schestowitz Let me find it Mar 29 16:27
_Hicham_ i mean post Mar 29 16:27
schestowitz Cause I read it before Mar 29 16:27
_Hicham_ post-9/11 notion Mar 29 16:27
schestowitz “the use of violence against civilians in order to achieve certain political aims.” Mar 29 16:28
schestowitz That’s the definitoon Mar 29 16:28
schestowitz This is the definitioon from the US state Mar 29 16:28
amarsh04 it would have to also include threats of violence, schestowitz Mar 29 16:29
schestowitz “There are universal moral principles which apply equally to individuals as well as groups of individuals (including states); among these universal principles are severe restrictions on the killing of civilians.” Mar 29 16:30
schestowitz amarsh04: yes, but not by *this* definition, I think Mar 29 16:30
schestowitz There are stories about South America and how journalists were cut with machetes for not obeying the military coup or whatever. Mar 29 16:30
schestowitz So basically, some said that if they don’t leave the country and stop publishing, they might due. Mar 29 16:31
schestowitz *die Mar 29 16:31
schestowitz It’s actually complicated Mar 29 16:31
schestowitz A states can recruit and train groups to do the terrorism by proxy Mar 29 16:31
amarsh04 that’s what I was afraid of, schestowitz… fear of violence is enough to stop many people doing what should be perfectly legitimate Mar 29 16:31
_Hicham_ the fear is a sharp weapon Mar 29 16:32
schestowitz Like… if the CIA trains a group to overthrow Chavez and the group threatens lives, does that count as US terrorism? Mar 29 16:32
amarsh04 agreed, or HP doing pretexting by proxy Mar 29 16:32
schestowitz Likewise with MS smear campains Mar 29 16:32
schestowitz A lot of the time Microsoft uses its cronies out there to do the smears Mar 29 16:32
schestowitz Or SCO to do lawsuits.. Mar 29 16:32
schestowitz amarsh04: ahhh. yes… H-P Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz Waggener Endromm is the same Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz *Spelling Mar 29 16:33
_Hicham_ MS and Novell may sue u Roy Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz They pressure journalists Mar 29 16:33
_Hicham_ for cutting their profits Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz If Microsoft came to you and asked to change your article, you’d be not so thrilled Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz But if some agency does it, then it’s OK Mar 29 16:33
schestowitz Same with the laptop brbes Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz It came via Edelman and W-E Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz Microsoft hires shills this way Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz Always by proxy Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz Same with smears Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz And spying Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz _Hicham_: they would achieve nothing by suing Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz Just more bad publicity for them Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz I’ve got no money, I’m not a company or a newspaper Mar 29 16:34
schestowitz SCO tried to attack Groklaw Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz It backfired Mar 29 16:35
_Hicham_ then they may kill u Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz So they stepped back Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz _Hicham_: you’ll guard me :-) Mar 29 16:35
_Hicham_ why if they hire a hitman to execute u? Mar 29 16:35
_Hicham_ why not Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz It would be suspicious Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz And I doubt it Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz They wouldn’t go for me Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz They would go after more important people Mar 29 16:35
schestowitz Like RMS.. Mar 29 16:35
_Hicham_ RMS doesn’t attack them directly Mar 29 16:36
_Hicham_ are u sure that u can’t be bribed? Mar 29 16:38
schestowitz To shut up? Mar 29 16:41
schestowitz No way Mar 29 16:41
schestowitz Also, that would never happen Mar 29 16:41
schestowitz Had they tried to bribe dissenter, they’d get exposed and maybe sued. Mar 29 16:42
schestowitz They would have to be insane to offer bribes to suppress critics. It would be leaked by the one to whom bribe is presented Mar 29 16:42
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Mar 29 16:43
schestowitz back in 2 hours….. Mar 29 16:47
_Hicham_ ok Mar 29 16:48
_Hicham_ take care Mar 29 16:48
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mib_gxn3nq hi Mar 29 17:16
mib_gxn3nq It’s roy Mar 29 17:16
mib_gxn3nq at the gym Mar 29 17:16
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twitter The more violent and horrible oppressors are, the more they should be opposed. Mar 29 17:30
twitter M$ works to convert or economically ruin dissenters. Mar 29 17:30
twitter The main means of conversion and thwarting is “interoperability” Mar 29 17:31
twitter There are lots of ways M$ can waste people’s time like that, but there’s only so many projects they can fund. Mar 29 17:32
twitter You’ve seen it in the SLOG DOC, where analysts and media people are dismissed as people easy to buy and screw. Mar 29 17:33
twitter I’ve also seen it here in Baton Rouge.  The leader of both the Baton Rouge Linux User’s group and LSU’s Linux User’s Group were sucked up. Mar 29 17:34
_Hicham_ who won’t be sucked up? Mar 29 17:35
_Hicham_ it he is jobless Mar 29 17:35
twitter It’s hard to turn down good paying work, and so these people both ended up with Windows as the center of their computing world. Mar 29 17:35
twitter I won’t be sucked up.  I’d rather clean toilets than learn .NET and other M$ shit. Mar 29 17:35
twitter For me, working for M$ is the ethical equivalent of working for China. Mar 29 17:36
twitter M$ is a mortal enemy of freedom. Mar 29 17:36
_Hicham_ what if they propose u $20k/month? Mar 29 17:37
twitter no good will come of it, no thanks Mar 29 17:37
_Hicham_ so u prefer ethics to money? Mar 29 17:38
twitter yes Mar 29 17:39
_Hicham_ that is great Mar 29 17:39
_Hicham_ i don’t see people like that very much Mar 29 17:39
_Hicham_ almost all people I know prefer money Mar 29 17:39
twitter the more I’ve learned about M$, the less willing I’ve become to even work with their crap. Mar 29 17:40
_Hicham_ so u never done a project on Windows? Mar 29 17:41
twitter I can and might have to be a user, and I may have to help users, but I won’t work for M$ or an affiliate. Mar 29 17:41
twitter I’ve used Windows and DOS for several jobs. Mar 29 17:41
_Hicham_ did u develop a project for Windows ? Mar 29 17:42
twitter At the worst, I knew a little about the win95 api and used it to make data display and analysis programs. Mar 29 17:42
twitter my recent thesis work required me to use Windows for data acquisition Mar 29 17:42
twitter I did not, thankfully, have to program to Windows Mar 29 17:43
twitter currently, I’m working with a professor who has a Visual Studio dll that must be used. Mar 29 17:43
_Hicham_ why u have to use Windows for data acquisition? Mar 29 17:43
_Hicham_ the msvcrt80.dll? Mar 29 17:43
twitter I used it because the hardware was already built for some important components. Mar 29 17:44
_Hicham_ couldn’t u use Wine? Mar 29 17:44
twitter My professor thought it would be quicker to use those components than rebuild things with better hardware. Mar 29 17:44
twitter the dll is specific to the project.  I’m going to compile and run on wine if I can.  It would be much better that way, but I can’t get around the dll. Mar 29 17:45
_Hicham_ do u have the source code for the dll? Mar 29 17:46
twitter no Mar 29 17:46
twitter I’m stuck using it if I want to help my professor. Mar 29 17:46
_Hicham_ u have to use MSVC compiler too Mar 29 17:47
_Hicham_ u can’t use gcc Mar 29 17:48
_Hicham_ since names decoration differ Mar 29 17:48
_Hicham_ so u will end up using MS Visual Studio Mar 29 17:48
twitter Yeah, I know.  It won’t even work on compilers for Mac – M$ crap is that booby trapped. Mar 29 17:48
_Hicham_ u have to ask for the dll source code Mar 29 17:49
_Hicham_ if u can obtain it Mar 29 17:49
_Hicham_ or try reverse engineering Mar 29 17:50
twitter it is not my place to ask and reverse engineering would take too long. Mar 29 17:51
_Hicham_ where do u study? in the US? Mar 29 17:52
twitter yes Mar 29 17:52
_Hicham_ and US professors use Windows … Mar 29 17:53
twitter I’ve done a lot of work at LSU. Mar 29 17:53
_Hicham_ what a shame Mar 29 17:53
_Hicham_ ! Mar 29 17:53
twitter No, they don’t all use Windows but there is great pressure. Mar 29 17:53
twitter LSU and Louisiana signed a scandalous single source contract with Dell.  You can get gnu/linux now, but it’s limited. Mar 29 17:54
_Hicham_ the professors in here all use Windows Mar 29 17:55
twitter Everything I do with Windows is painful and awful. Mar 29 17:55
_Hicham_ I developed an encryption software last year on Linux Mar 29 17:55
_Hicham_ but I had to port it to Windows Mar 29 17:56
twitter fun, fun, fun Mar 29 17:56
_Hicham_ because the professor doesn’t use Linux Mar 29 17:56
_Hicham_ thank’s to RedHat’s Cygwin, now it is easier to port Unix Project to Windows Mar 29 17:57
twitter that’s for sure Mar 29 17:57
twitter encryption on a backdoored system like Windows is sort of a waste of time, isn’t it? Mar 29 17:58
_Hicham_ sure it is Mar 29 17:59
_Hicham_ one of things that I was thinking of Mar 29 17:59
_Hicham_ the keys protection mechanism Mar 29 18:00
_Hicham_ I failed to find a reliable model on Windows Mar 29 18:00
_Hicham_ On Linux, securing the keys wasn’t hard Mar 29 18:00
twitter I’m reading Roy’s “unruly media” email.  Very funny stuff. Mar 29 18:02
twitter “up your street” where do they get crap like that? Mar 29 18:02
twitter bbl Mar 29 18:03
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zer0c00l my maiden drupal website http://www.mepcoeng.ac.in:… Mar 29 18:36
zer0c00l does it look good Mar 29 18:36
*zer0c00l expects feedback ;) Mar 29 18:36
zer0c00l its not officially launched lot of work has to be done Mar 29 18:41
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MinceR how are you gentlemen !! Mar 29 18:53
schestowitz Microsoft shoots itself in the foot. Mar 29 18:56
schestowitz I’ve just come back from the gym (I accessed IRC from there BTW) and the guy who works there said he had “lost the key” Mar 29 18:57
schestowitz After he said it 3 times I asked him which key Mar 29 18:57
schestowitz Turned out it was Windows key Mar 29 18:57
schestowitz He’s locked out Mar 29 18:57
schestowitz So I got his reading about KDE4 and he got glued to the screen for a long time :-) Mar 29 18:57
schestowitz zer0c00l: I can’t reach that server Mar 29 18:58
schestowitz It times out Mar 29 18:58
zer0c00l :( Mar 29 19:00
zer0c00l will check it out Mar 29 19:00
schestowitz Gracelyne Fernando just mailed me Mar 29 19:00
schestowitz Nuisance Mar 29 19:00
schestowitz I think you got her knickers in a tizzy by showing how she had been screwing the Indian population for criminals like Ballmer Mar 29 19:01
schestowitz I hope she takes some time to think what she’s done Mar 29 19:01
zer0c00l yes Mar 29 19:02
zer0c00l what she sent? Mar 29 19:02
schestowitz Microsoft’s latest folly in patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/29… And in India: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/29… Mar 29 19:03
schestowitz Took lots of work to write those Mar 29 19:03
MinceR 210523 <@schestowitz> Microsoft shoots itself in the foot. Mar 29 19:04
schestowitz zer0c00l: never mind. Private mail. But I’m appalled at how greedy people are and how stupid by imposition they can be (brainwashed to believe that “war is peace”^tm and “suppression is free (gratis)”) Mar 29 19:04
MinceR it’s more like they’re holding a machine gun at their foot set to full auto and they have the trigger pulled Mar 29 19:04
zer0c00l she is kind of obnoxious Mar 29 19:04
MinceR and it’s belt fed Mar 29 19:04
schestowitz Strong icture Mar 29 19:04
zer0c00l let her cool down :P Mar 29 19:05
schestowitz MinceR: belt on the foot? Mar 29 19:05
MinceR perhaps Mar 29 19:06
schestowitz Whoa! Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz Almost no “Microsoft” news in the past week Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz It indicates they become less relevant Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz Only 380 matches Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz Used to be over 500 some months ago… Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz Let’\s so Vista vs Vista7 check Mar 29 19:07
schestowitz The ‘vapourware test’ Mar 29 19:08
schestowitz Watch two evil marketing companies hookin’ up: http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Cok… Mar 29 19:08
schestowitz “Hi, my name is Joe and I used to work for Microsoft… now I live in the park bench..” http://www.techflash.com/Laid_off_a… < Could laid off Microsoft workers spark a new innovation wave? > Mar 29 19:09
schestowitz Red Hat had no layoffs. Same with Debian Mar 29 19:09
schestowitz “Vista” news: # of results: 2 Mar 29 19:10
schestowitz Headline: “Acer sued for shipping Vista-book with GB of memory” Mar 29 19:10
schestowitz Already covered in BN Mar 29 19:10
schestowitz Second headline: “The Curtain Falls On Windows Vista&#39;s “SideShow” – Washington Post” Mar 29 19:10
schestowitz Also covered in BN Mar 29 19:10
schestowitz Moving on to Vista 7… Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz Matching “dows 7″: 10 Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz Vista (today’s flagship): 2 Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz Vapourware: 10 Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz Keep track of the score Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz Microsoft is embarrassed with what it has Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz It lives in future fantasies Mar 29 19:11
schestowitz “Microsoft lets new Windows 7 date slip – VNUNet.com” Mar 29 19:12
schestowitz Surprise, surprise. Mar 29 19:12
schestowitz Make hype, pull away. Mar 29 19:12
schestowitz OOOH! oooo! It’s  LEAK! Mar 29 19:12
zer0c00l lol “Reza,Sid handle a cool session called “Win7,IE8,9 lives of students – The three musketeers” Mar 29 19:12
zer0c00l if the next os comes in they will change it Mar 29 19:12
schestowitz zer0c00l: where? Mar 29 19:12
zer0c00l her blog Mar 29 19:13
schestowitz 2010? Mar 29 19:13
schestowitz Vista Anothe7 G7? Mar 29 19:13
zer0c00l http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009/… Mar 29 19:13
zer0c00l what to say Mar 29 19:13
schestowitz “I have lost my sleep and peace of mind for last two months over these distasteful activities by Microsoft.” –Professor Deepak Phatak IIT bombay Mar 29 19:14
zer0c00l yes Mar 29 19:14
schestowitz And she’s helping this Bully Corporation Mar 29 19:14
zer0c00l :D Mar 29 19:14
schestowitz She’s helping harrassment of poor professors who defend India Mar 29 19:14
schestowitz Quote the bit he wrote about looting his country Mar 29 19:14
schestowitz Show her what she helps do Mar 29 19:14
zer0c00l i am keep telling Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz She’s helping the “invaders” Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Itll get to them eventually Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Gets them thinking Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Like RaSa Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz RaSh Mar 29 19:15
zer0c00l RaSh Mar 29 19:15
zer0c00l yes Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Yes Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Hehe Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Echo here Mar 29 19:15
zer0c00l :P Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz beat me to it! Mar 29 19:15
schestowitz Shane O’neill  (Ballmer’s friend) is attacking Linux in IDG again Mar 29 19:17
schestowitz Really, these people need to kick out the MS shills from IDG Mar 29 19:18
schestowitz NetworkWorld in this case. Mar 29 19:18
schestowitz http://www.networkworld.com/news/200… <<–Shane O’neill does nothign these days but boost Microsoft and just attack Linux Mar 29 19:18
schestowitz If Linux is not a threat, then why does he keep attacking it? Mar 29 19:18
schestowitz He never even USED Linux Mar 29 19:18
schestowitz He met Ballmer last month and ever since he has attacked Linux like a motor Mar 29 19:19
schestowitz From now on I shall refer to him as “little ballmer” Mar 29 19:19
schestowitz http://www.cio.com/article/486083… Mar 29 19:20
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?hl=en… Mar 29 19:20
schestowitz “Another tech analyst, Tim Bajarin, president of consulting firm Creative Strategies, believes that Google will eventually extend Android to netbooks, but not until early to mid 2010.” Mar 29 19:20
schestowitz The whole article is an anti-Linux smear Mar 29 19:20
zer0c00l “What I will do, on the other hand, is give a Disclaimer before my session[on doze], so that if there’s some freedom fighter (or someone who’s seriously into Terminator), then they may not use the MS product. Happy?”   ->RaSh  wrote after felt sorry in BN . Its like adding statuary waring before teaching people to smoke cigarets Mar 29 19:22
zer0c00l cigaret smoking is injuries to health Mar 29 19:22
zer0c00l these people are hard to change Mar 29 19:22
zer0c00l http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/200… comment no 43 Mar 29 19:22
schestowitz It’s time for me to do a post about little ballmer too Mar 29 19:23
schestowitz Maybe tomorrow Mar 29 19:23
zer0c00l schestowitz: whats the time there 8.30 pm? Mar 29 19:23
schestowitz YEs Mar 29 19:25
schestowitz DST just kicked in last night Mar 29 19:25
zer0c00l i am just adjusting my fedora clock to match manchester Mar 29 19:25
zer0c00l :) Mar 29 19:25
zer0c00l we dont use DST Mar 29 19:27
zer0c00l http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… Mar 29 19:27
zer0c00l *dst is no longer used Mar 29 19:27
schestowitz XBox disaster galore this week: Mar 29 19:30
schestowitz Errors: http://games.slashdot.org/articl… http://www.talkxbox.com/article3097.html Mar 29 19:30
schestowitz DST is useless Mar 29 19:30
schestowitz It’s from farming dats Mar 29 19:30
schestowitz *days Mar 29 19:30
schestowitz Xbox designer accuses Microsoft of homophobia  < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechn… > Mar 29 19:31
schestowitz Xbox designer sues Microsoft for harassment < http://www.neoseeker.com/news/1023… > Mar 29 19:31
schestowitz Microsoft Wants You to Pay for E74 Repairs on Xbox 360s over a year old < http://blog.seattlepi.com/digitaljoysti… Mar 29 19:34
schestowitz Inside Microsoft’s Worst Hard Time < http://rcpmag.com/columns/ar… > Mar 29 19:35
schestowitz Panis chamber.. Mar 29 19:35
schestowitz *Panic Mar 29 19:35
schestowitz brb Mar 29 19:39
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schestowitz How to diagnose and defeat the dangerous Conficker worm < http://blogs.usatoday.com/technolo… > Intructions for Linux conspicuously  are missing Mar 29 19:58
MinceR instructions to upgrade to linux in order to immunze the computer? Mar 29 20:01
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MinceR s/nze/nize/ Mar 29 20:01
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schestowitz Just sarcasm. Hey, I’ve realised we now get over 1000 UIPs a day via Google Mar 29 20:02
schestowitz Over 50 search for “boycott novell” or “boycottnovell” so the name is recognised Mar 29 20:02
schestowitz over 50/day that is Mar 29 20:03
schestowitz There are some real bombs in the news for MSFT Mar 29 20:03
schestowitz I’ll post some tomorrow Mar 29 20:03
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schestowitz Bill Gates: Philanthropist or Profiteering Polluter?  < http://www.whale.to/a/bill_gates1.html > Mar 29 20:13
schestowitz UPDATE: Charter Communications Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy < http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/a… > Mar 29 20:22
schestowitz Guess what? Even the New York Times is in debt: http://www.reuters.com/article/id… Mar 29 20:24
schestowitz That may spell the death of one of the longest-standing papers maybe. No Idea how old WSJ is… and other older ones… Mar 29 20:24
schestowitz New Internet Explorer Errors  < http://toastytech.com/evil/ieerrors.html > Mar 29 20:28
schestowitz With NBC run by GE and such this is madness…. companies owning the reporting media that speaks about them and their competitors Mar 29 20:30
schestowitz [Or don't speak... e.g. Linux] Mar 29 20:30
schestowitz More Microsoft dumping of Office: “The Ultimate Steal Promotion saves students up to 91 percent off the estimated retail price when downloading Microsoft Office Ultimate 2007. REDMOND, Wash., March 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ “ Mar 29 20:38
schestowitz The abusive monopolist is doing PR stunts in the UK for publicity… http://www.timesonline.co.uk/… ; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/educat… Mar 29 20:40
schestowitz Microsoft employee assaulted and robbed in West Seattle < http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattl… > Mar 29 20:43
schestowitz The US is expected to have a sharp rise in crime due to unemployment. The UK has curfews. Mar 29 20:45
schestowitz Twitter sold out: mocoNews – Twitter Gets Business Model For Third Birthday < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn… > http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… http://www.readwriteweb.com/arch… Mar 29 20:47
schestowitz “Microsoft Corp.’s (MSFT) new Web browser includes privacy functions that may assuage U.S. government concerns about the collection of personal data, a key element of an emerging technology the software giant is counting on to bolster its Internet advertising business.” http://online.wsj.com/… Mar 29 20:51
schestowitz Bull. Vista has forensics built in…….. but not for the users, for the cops Mar 29 20:52
schestowitz http://www.efluxmedia.com/new… “Aodhan Cullen, StatCounter founder and CEO, described the users’ reaction to the launch of IE8 as “underwhelming”” Mar 29 20:53
schestowitz Check out this page: http://www.i4u.com/article23864.html Click on the girl at the bottom. See how they encourage using girls as objects… appendices to hardware gadgets. This is insulting and degrading. Why would sites about technology combine it with sex to make sales? Mar 29 20:57
schestowitz Microsoft brings Web poison to the platform it also fights… http://visualstudiomagazine.com/n… Will Miguel and Gang be the next to participate in such stuff? Mar 29 20:59
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_Hicham_ Fat Roy Mar 29 21:11
_Hicham_ u went to the gym? Mar 29 21:11
schestowitz Microsoft is looking for cheap labour (who would volunteer to them?): http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eato… Mar 29 21:12
schestowitz _Hicham_: yes Mar 29 21:12
_Hicham_ would do u like to go help them? Mar 29 21:13
schestowitz Twitter sold out to Microsoft (AstroTurfing part of their spiel now): http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/23/the-… http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/… http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tec… Shame really. Mar 29 21:13
schestowitz _Hicham_: Yes, I’ll hold the pistol next to the foot while they squeeze the trigger ;-) Mar 29 21:13
_Hicham_ did u ever see the apache torture? Mar 29 21:14
schestowitz Some crappy company called “NaviSite” helps Microsoft molest other companies with the BizSpark lockin Mar 29 21:14
schestowitz Apache? Mar 29 21:15
schestowitz The tribe? Mar 29 21:15
_Hicham_ http://debian.fmi.uni-s… Mar 29 21:16
schestowitz Microsoft likes its supporter dead, not tortured. http://www.internetnews.com/bus-n… Mar 29 21:16
_Hicham_ here u go Mar 29 21:16
_Hicham_ did u see the special way of torture? Mar 29 21:16
schestowitz I think I was this many years ago Mar 29 21:17
_Hicham_ what do u think of this kind of torture? Mar 29 21:17
_Hicham_ :D Mar 29 21:17
MinceR looks more like execution Mar 29 21:18
schestowitz AstroTurf as Twitter biz mode. Shame on them, esp. when they sell out to a criminal company.  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03… Facebook sold out to the same criminal company (with extensive records) Mar 29 21:19
schestowitz MinceR: “killing me softly” Mar 29 21:19
MinceR i wouldn’t call it soft :> Mar 29 21:20
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schestowitz NASA liaises with the criminal too, which is strange because NASA does lots of Windows. http://www.dailytech.com/Intern… Mar 29 21:24
_Hicham_ Roy : u should give a speech on Youtube Mar 29 21:25
schestowitz About what? Mar 29 21:26
schestowitz Pieter: http://boycottnovell.com/20… Mar 29 21:26
_Hicham_ About the Big Corporations Crimes Mar 29 21:27
_Hicham_ did u start the wiki? Mar 29 21:27
twitter this twitter never sold out to M$. Mar 29 21:28
schestowitz _Hicham_: it’s in progress Mar 29 21:28
schestowitz I was gonna do some tomorrow, but no time…. Mar 29 21:28
schestowitz http://online.wsj.com/article/… (Twitter, Seeking Revenue, Launches Microsoft-Sponsored Site ) Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz Also here: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeed… Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz Maybe they’ll go bankrupt together Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz _Hicham_: Let me elaborate Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz It’s a tradeoffs Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz Microsoft commits many crimes all the time Mar 29 21:30
schestowitz I have in my text editor about 7 sins right now that I want to post Mar 29 21:31
schestowitz So organising old ones means not keeping track of new ones Mar 29 21:31
schestowitz Groklaw had a similar tradeoff Mar 29 21:31
schestowitz Follow news vs. organise old news Mar 29 21:31
schestowitz So it took a break from news Mar 29 21:31
schestowitz PJ from Groklaw did a recording here (as Ogg): http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasi… Mar 29 21:32
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/pd… Mar 29 21:32
schestowitz This is because she never even posted a photo publicly Mar 29 21:33
_Hicham_ nice voice Mar 29 21:33
_Hicham_ she must be a hotty Mar 29 21:34
_Hicham_ who is this chick? Mar 29 21:36
twitter It’s a shame the Los Angeles Times did not serve it’s archive.  The original article about M$’s big and embarrassing astro-turf was much better. Mar 29 21:36
schestowitz Who is this David Coursey who wrote “Why Microsoft Should Buy Facebook” in IDG? Mar 29 21:37
schestowitz Seems like an awkward thing to write now that MS has no money left. Mar 29 21:37
schestowitz _Hicham_: you don’t know Groklaw? Mar 29 21:37
_Hicham_ no Mar 29 21:38
twitter M$ pretends it has money. Mar 29 21:38
twitter They get their supporters to carry on as if M$ still had $60 billion left. Mar 29 21:39
twitter I’d like to know how much they actually have now. Mar 29 21:39
schestowitz Maybe big debt Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz Nobody knows Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz Until one day it drops like a rock Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz Like SCO Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz [with CHapter 11 out of the blue] Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz Microsoft was caught for fraud before Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz By an insider Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz Surely they still do this Mar 29 21:40
schestowitz They are just more careful about hiring whistleblow-inclines accountants Mar 29 21:41
schestowitz *inclined Mar 29 21:41
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schestowitz Yuck.. DTS Systeme Completes Linux (Mono) Web-based OS Deployment Tool < http://linux.sys-con.c… > Mar 29 21:42
twitter Another M$ security failure -> A Microsoft employee was Maced and punched until he blacked out …. He was missing his state identification card, Bank of America debit card, $60 and the SECURITY BADGE he uses as a cook at Microsoft. Mar 29 21:47
*schestowitz install Adobe AIR. Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz Is it just partially open source? Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz AFAIK it is Mar 29 21:47
Balrog_ where is the partial source? Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz twitter: yes, put that up there Mar 29 21:47
Balrog_ (btw, google updater for mac is foss…) Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz There are more such recent incidents Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz Deaths on MS capus too Mar 29 21:47
Balrog_ but I’d use sparkle as it’s better :) Mar 29 21:47
schestowitz *campus Mar 29 21:47
twitter nasty. Mar 29 21:48
twitter beating up a cook, that’s low. Mar 29 21:48
Balrog_ ?? Mar 29 21:50
schestowitz AIR translucency is nice Mar 29 21:51
schestowitz I’ve just installed an AIR app for identi.ca Mar 29 21:51
schestowitz They’re all like floating widgets Mar 29 21:52
Balrog_ schestowitz: this may be useful: http://v2v.cc/~j/Ogg.js/ Mar 29 21:52
twitter these numbers are mostly meaningless but they show a net decline.  http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs… Mar 29 21:52
twitter tried to look at the adobe air site, but it wanted me to have flash installed.  oh well. Mar 29 21:53
twitter bbl Mar 29 21:53
Balrog_ use gnash :) Mar 29 21:53
MinceR well, AIR probably includes a version of flash anyway Mar 29 21:56
MinceR the good thing about AIR is that it stays out of the browser :> Mar 29 21:57
schestowitz THis new tool (twhirl) looks very nice Mar 29 21:57
schestowitz Not very useful though Mar 29 21:57
schestowitz It nags with notifications as well Mar 29 21:57
schestowitz And I can’t resize the thing Mar 29 21:57
MinceR well, microblogging is not very useful either :> Mar 29 21:58
schestowitz Yes, but that’s well known… though it’s valuable for a few things Mar 29 21:59
Balrog_ I find AIR not very useful Mar 29 21:59
schestowitz http://www.twhirl.org/download Mar 29 21:59
Balrog_ doesn’t it add binary content to the web anyway? Mar 29 21:59
schestowitz Balrog: yes, it’s like reinventing things Mar 29 21:59
schestowitz Run Linux ‘the Adobe way’ Mar 29 21:59
schestowitz Balrog: yes Mar 29 22:00
Balrog_ that’s not too good Mar 29 22:00
schestowitz The Adobe installer was OK Mar 29 22:00
schestowitz I needed to be admin to run it, but that’s fair enough Mar 29 22:00
schestowitz Better than Google Earth installer Mar 29 22:00
Balrog_ adobe software tends to suck Mar 29 22:00
schestowitz Compared to who? Microsoft? IBM? Sun? Mar 29 22:00
Balrog_ like Creative Suite apps for OS X don’t handle case-sensitive FS properly Mar 29 22:00
Balrog_ I should say, at all Mar 29 22:00
Balrog_ with Windows, there’s no option for case sensitive FS Mar 29 22:01
schestowitz Here’s where I found it: http://www.internetling.com/2009/03/2… Mar 29 22:01
schestowitz They also list the Mono infection called GNOME-Do Mar 29 22:01
MinceR well, just about anything is better than the google earth installer Mar 29 22:02
MinceR or google earth in general Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz The third one looks like an app in testing mode, before the GUI mode… Mar 29 22:02
Balrog_ what doesn the google earth installer do??? Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz Good for CLI people.. Mar 29 22:02
Balrog_ or the app in general? Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz Or grepping… piping I/O.. Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz Ask MinceR Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz He loaths it Mar 29 22:02
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 29 22:02
schestowitz loathes Mar 29 22:03
schestowitz Yo, oiaohm Mar 29 22:03
Balrog_ MinceR: what’s wrong with it? Mar 29 22:03
MinceR it has no uninstaller Mar 29 22:03
oiaohm Hi schestowitz Mar 29 22:03
MinceR also, google earth itself simply fails to work if you don’t run it as root Mar 29 22:03
Balrog_ the linux version? Mar 29 22:03
MinceR indeed Mar 29 22:03
Balrog_ there is no /usr/share/google-earth/uninstall ? Mar 29 22:04
MinceR maybe there was one, but it didn’t work Mar 29 22:04
MinceR in the end i had to manually hunt down the pieces in the fs Mar 29 22:04
Balrog_ running as root is no good. Maybe it’s trying to access a device that requires root because you’re not in the proper group? Mar 29 22:04
MinceR so that piece of shit isn’t going to see my fs again Mar 29 22:04
schestowitz Balrog: http://www.google.com/search?q=sit… Mar 29 22:04
MinceR maybe in a chroot jail or something Mar 29 22:04
oiaohm This is why I am looking forward to btrfs on linux. Mar 29 22:04
MinceR Balrog_: i don’t know. if it does, it’s supposed to tell me Mar 29 22:05
oiaohm a rollback system for crappy applications. Mar 29 22:05
MinceR also, what would it need anyway? Mar 29 22:05
Balrog_ hrrm…. Mar 29 22:05
MinceR network and opengl both work fine as user Mar 29 22:05
Balrog_ where does it store tiles? Mar 29 22:05
MinceR i’d like a gobolinux/nixos style package manager Mar 29 22:05
Balrog_ maybe that has to be user-writeable Mar 29 22:05
MinceR Balrog_: i don’t really care, it should need root privileges period Mar 29 22:05
MinceR it isn’t windows so google should stop treating it like it is Mar 29 22:06
oiaohm gobolinux can still be stuffed up by applications doing the wrong thing. Mar 29 22:06
MinceR true Mar 29 22:06
Balrog_ yeah I know :( Mar 29 22:06
Balrog_ google is doing the same with mac Mar 29 22:06
oiaohm btrfs allows writerable snapshots. Mar 29 22:06
oiaohm So you can do something like gobolinux Mar 29 22:06
MinceR i’m planning to use those snapshots for backup :> Mar 29 22:06
Balrog_ instead of using the sparkle updater, which is a tiny shared lib that sits inside the application package, they use this system-wide updater that can’t be disabled Mar 29 22:07
MinceR my updater is called apt :> Mar 29 22:07
Balrog_ (sparkle is a small framework that checks versions and gives the user the option of downloading+installing a new version if it’s available) Mar 29 22:08
schestowitz It seems like sjvn is promoting vapourware.. http://blogs.computerworld.co… Mar 29 22:08
Balrog_ it’s funny what I read on the mac forums (the thread about the MS ads) Mar 29 22:09
Balrog_ many are talking about switching to Win7 from MAc Mar 29 22:09
Balrog_ Mac * Mar 29 22:09
MinceR lol Mar 29 22:09
Balrog_ they’ll be surprised when win7 comes out and isn’t what they hope for :) Mar 29 22:10
MinceR well, apparently neither was osx Mar 29 22:10
MinceR gn Mar 29 22:11
Balrog_ hmm, we don’t know what 10.6 will be like yet… Mar 29 22:11
MinceR it will be like all the previous versions: shitty. Mar 29 22:11
Balrog_ but the technology behind OS X is way better than windows Mar 29 22:11
MinceR yes, the parts apple didn’t write are good Mar 29 22:12
Balrog_ I think the package system that OS X uses is better than Linux in a way Mar 29 22:12
Balrog_ (self contained apps, frameworks, etc) Mar 29 22:12
MinceR and there are systems that are fully built of such stuff Mar 29 22:12
Balrog_ I didn’t see a linux like that … Mar 29 22:12
MinceR self-contained apps are stupid Mar 29 22:12
MinceR and if you know what dynamic linking is for, you know why Mar 29 22:12
MinceR apple apparently doesn’t know what it is Mar 29 22:12
Balrog_ well with self contained apps you can remove them easily and you don’t have to worry about collisions Mar 29 22:12
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