IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 13th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 8:25 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-131-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 13 00:05
schestowitz MinceR: but let’s leave that aside… Apr 13 00:05
schestowitz How are the APPS Apr 13 00:06
schestowitz ? Apr 13 00:06
schestowitz That’s what matters most Apr 13 00:06
MinceR they’ll take some getting used to Apr 13 00:06
_Hicham_ which APPS? Apr 13 00:06
MinceR and no, that isn’t what matters most because i can use them in any DE Apr 13 00:06
schestowitz Some KDE bugs I reported are supposedly fixed only in the kde4 versions and the same goes for most bugs in general because kde4 is the same branch for projects Apr 13 00:06
twitter why don’t you just use the 64 bit package? Apr 13 00:06
_Hicham_ freedesktop have done a great work Apr 13 00:06
schestowitz MinceR: true.. could. Apr 13 00:07
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : any news about Windows 7? Apr 13 00:07
DaemonFC not really, that computer has been off most of the day, went out to eat with my dad for my birthday and easter kind of in one Apr 13 00:08
trmanco http://forum.xda-developers.co… Apr 13 00:08
trmanco “NSA has access to Windows Mobile smartphones” Apr 13 00:08
DaemonFC showed it to him and his reaction was “That’s Vista, right?” Apr 13 00:08
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 00:08
_Hicham_ that would be most people’s reaction Apr 13 00:08
_Hicham_ normal Apr 13 00:08
_Hicham_ same themes engine Apr 13 00:08
_Hicham_ that what differs through Windows versions Apr 13 00:09
_Hicham_ theme engine Apr 13 00:09
DaemonFC Well, if it wasn’t stamped Release Candidate, I’d figure they were just saving the UI work for later like always Apr 13 00:09
DaemonFC but the GUI is 95% identical to Vista Apr 13 00:09
twitter three years ago people thought E16 was vista too Apr 13 00:09
twitter ha ha Apr 13 00:09
DaemonFC there’s some minor improvements in 7 and many more major new problems Apr 13 00:09
_Hicham_ Microsoft hires artists more than developers :D Apr 13 00:10
DaemonFC it’s not an upgrade even by Vista standards Apr 13 00:10
twitter more sales than art Apr 13 00:10
_Hicham_ improvements? Apr 13 00:10
DaemonFC yeah, I like the way the window grouping is handled, IE 8 is better than 7 but it’s still awful Apr 13 00:10
schestowitz trmanco: old news (to me) Apr 13 00:10
DaemonFC and even if you use IE, there is an IE 8 for Vista Apr 13 00:10
schestowitz That’s why they wanted OBAMAA to ditch Crackberry Apr 13 00:11
DaemonFC so it really isn’t worth anything even assuming you’re on Vista Apr 13 00:11
trmanco I thought it was only in Windows NT Apr 13 00:11
twitter what was that cartoon I saw?  an image of Hitler is an improvement over vista Apr 13 00:11
schestowitz _Hicham_: that would be Apple Apr 13 00:11
DaemonFC well, my problem with 7 is not mainly technical defects, it’s intentional ones Apr 13 00:11
schestowitz Microsoft is just catching up when it comes to artists Apr 13 00:12
DaemonFC new DRM and such Apr 13 00:12
DaemonFC Product Activation Apr 13 00:12
schestowitz KDE has some good artists like the Lancelot guy and this other Portuguese guy who made Raptor, IIRC… and Oxygen Apr 13 00:12
twitter catching up?  I suppose ripping KDE off is a way to catch up Apr 13 00:12
schestowitz yes Apr 13 00:12
schestowitz Apple did that too Apr 13 00:12
schestowitz Xerox PARC Apr 13 00:12
DaemonFC I don’t think Windows or OS X rip KDE off Apr 13 00:13
twitter at least Apple made things their own. Apr 13 00:13
twitter M$ just coppies Apr 13 00:13
DaemonFC I dislike KDE’s layout more Apr 13 00:13
_Hicham_ best artwork is fedora’s Apr 13 00:13
twitter I’ve seen Windows 7 screenshots that are complete KDE ripoffs Apr 13 00:14
DaemonFC the choose your own adventure menu, the various “What the hell is that?” apps like Akonadi Apr 13 00:14
twitter it does not matter, it’s all vapor really Apr 13 00:14
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q… skip to 13:00 Apr 13 00:14
schestowitz Think of MSFT Apr 13 00:14
DaemonFC Mandriva has the only usable KDE 4 and it’s because they made the classic menu work exactly like KDE 3′s Apr 13 00:14
DaemonFC and ripped out Phonon and replaced it with Pulseaudio Apr 13 00:15
schestowitz Mandriva KDE FTW (using it here) Apr 13 00:15
trmanco phonon? Apr 13 00:15
trmanco never heard of it Apr 13 00:15
DaemonFC Phonon has failed to use blah blah blah device….falling back to blahblahblah” Apr 13 00:15
DaemonFC that was annoying Apr 13 00:15
trmanco well, good thing people have a choice Apr 13 00:16
_Hicham_ PulseAudio is a good transitional solution Apr 13 00:16
DaemonFC yeah, that’s why Kubuntu doesn’t have Pulse, Phonon is meant to do some of the same things Apr 13 00:16
DaemonFC and installing both can make trouble Apr 13 00:16
trmanco pulseaudio isn’t completely baked Apr 13 00:16
schestowitz Wow. Apr 13 00:16
schestowitz It turns out that American military bases in the UK are disguised as RAF based Apr 13 00:17
schestowitz *bases Apr 13 00:17
schestowitz Predictable, but interesting. Apr 13 00:17
DaemonFC we have military bases on every continent and in almost every country of strategic importance Apr 13 00:17
trmanco royal air force? Apr 13 00:17
DaemonFC and even when something is out of reach of that Apr 13 00:18
DaemonFC we have aircraft carriers Apr 13 00:18
DaemonFC and attack submarines Apr 13 00:18
DaemonFC and guided missile destroyers Apr 13 00:18
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : and u have Microsoft Apr 13 00:18
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DaemonFC we’ve got nukes, we’ve got drones, we’ve got bombers, fighters, guns, knives, sharp sticks Apr 13 00:18
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DaemonFC and bad languager Apr 13 00:18
DaemonFC *language Apr 13 00:19
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 00:19
DaemonFC the problem with having the best technology is that when the enemy is in an urban area and can draw you in and force you to go door to door Apr 13 00:20
DaemonFC it’s nearly useless Apr 13 00:20
schestowitz Over 6000 military bases in the US… Apr 13 00:20
schestowitz DaemonFC: yes, battles of scale Apr 13 00:20
schestowitz The assumption if that it’s a confrontation between countries Apr 13 00:20
DaemonFC schestowitz: That’s where Saddam Hussein went wrong Apr 13 00:20
schestowitz Not guerrilla warfare Apr 13 00:20
schestowitz That’s why it fails so badly in Iraq, Vietnam… Apr 13 00:21
DaemonFC a T-72 battle tank could be effective against an M1A2 Abrahms at close range Apr 13 00:21
DaemonFC if he had had his forces fall back into Kuwait City Apr 13 00:21
DaemonFC that would have negated our technological advantage Apr 13 00:21
DaemonFC as effective range, computer targeting, and GPS no longer matter Apr 13 00:22
DaemonFC and it’s jsut who gets the shot off first Apr 13 00:22
schestowitz yes Apr 13 00:22
schestowitz hbombs Apr 13 00:22
twitter nuke fixes problem -> the problem with having the best technology is that when the enemy is in an urban area and can draw you in and force you to go door to door Apr 13 00:22
schestowitz it f*cks up even water and electricity systems Apr 13 00:22
twitter concentrating forces for a nuke strike is a bad idea Apr 13 00:23
schestowitz People starve after a while if hit in particular places. Time to take the treaties seriously and disarm Apr 13 00:23
DaemonFC schestowitz: We would never have used a neutron bomb to knock out Kuwait City Apr 13 00:23
schestowitz They should rearm with wind turbines instead Apr 13 00:23
DaemonFC that would have crippled their oil extraction infrastructure Apr 13 00:23
schestowitz Work on efficient energy, not plutonium Apr 13 00:23
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : u have done more in Iraq Apr 13 00:23
DaemonFC the EM pulse would knock out most of Kuwait’s electronics Apr 13 00:23
twitter GWB wanted to bomb Al Gazera anyway Apr 13 00:24
schestowitz it’s not a building Apr 13 00:24
DaemonFC well, I’m no more responsible for Iraq than schestowitz Apr 13 00:24
schestowitz It’s like fighting “terrorism” Apr 13 00:24
schestowitz Or fighting “hate” Apr 13 00:24
DaemonFC I’m sure his government would jail him for not paying taxes Apr 13 00:24
twitter no?  you pay taxes Apr 13 00:24
schestowitz Or fighting “nitrogen” Apr 13 00:24
twitter fighting flatulence! Apr 13 00:24
twitter obesity Apr 13 00:25
DaemonFC twitter: If I want to go to prison for years Apr 13 00:25
DaemonFC then yeah I could evade taxes Apr 13 00:25
schestowitz twitter: bomb those “flatulence” bastards Apr 13 00:25
DaemonFC so I’m a victim in this too Apr 13 00:25
schestowitz Get rid of them Apr 13 00:25
schestowitz Nuke the hate ;-) Apr 13 00:25
twitter nice Apr 13 00:25
DaemonFC twitter: 1 person can’t stop the stupidity that 305 MILLION put into place Apr 13 00:26
twitter I know that but it does not keep me from being responsible. Apr 13 00:26
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : most americans don’t know anything about the world Apr 13 00:27
_Hicham_ it is a fact Apr 13 00:27
twitter most people don’t know anything Apr 13 00:27
_Hicham_ the administration wants that Apr 13 00:27
DaemonFC _Hicham_: And 99% of all opinions about Americans are just made up on the spot Apr 13 00:28
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 00:28
DaemonFC people abroad just act like America is a person and that person can change after stopping on a dime Apr 13 00:29
twitter tractor production is up 200% Apr 13 00:29
DaemonFC they forget that Nazi Germany was not a single person Apr 13 00:29
DaemonFC it was that most of a nation had gone mad Apr 13 00:29
DaemonFC and were pulling the unwilling along in tow Apr 13 00:29
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : I am not saying that America is one person Apr 13 00:29
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_Hicham_ but most Americans don’t care about what is going on in the world Apr 13 00:30
DaemonFC it’s fairly ignorant to just say that everyone here is responsible for everything Apr 13 00:30
_Hicham_ I didn’t say that Apr 13 00:30
DaemonFC I wouldn’t say that everyone in Iran is responsible for the Iranian regime Apr 13 00:30
DaemonFC most of them go along with it for fear of retribution Apr 13 00:30
_Hicham_ no one can say that Apr 13 00:30
DaemonFC it’s how a minority rules, when every candidate of every party is the same thing Apr 13 00:31
DaemonFC but they can say they were fairly elected Apr 13 00:31
DaemonFC so you can feel less cheated Apr 13 00:31
_Hicham_ there is no fair elections Apr 13 00:31
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 00:31
_Hicham_ fair elections exists only in computer science Apr 13 00:32
_Hicham_ in distributed systems Apr 13 00:32
DaemonFC I kind of like how Ubuntu overthrew Debian’s messed up system claiming it stifled development Apr 13 00:33
DaemonFC then set up something about like what they were complaining of in only 5 short years Apr 13 00:34
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : Ubuntu didn’t do anything Apr 13 00:34
_Hicham_ they did marketing, yes Apr 13 00:34
_Hicham_ but on technical side, there was no major improvements Apr 13 00:34
DaemonFC they’ve made changes in order to be able to better market it as having the feel and features you’d expect in a modern system Apr 13 00:35
DaemonFC and there’s still a few things it does better Apr 13 00:35
_Hicham_ like for example? Apr 13 00:35
DaemonFC but overall, they’ve become another unmovable project Apr 13 00:35
DaemonFC Well for one, you can use newer software without risking really awful bugs that typically get into Sid Apr 13 00:36
DaemonFC Debian still doesn’t use Upstart Apr 13 00:36
DaemonFC Debian offers no official support for it if you need that Apr 13 00:36
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : Upstart isn’t that great Apr 13 00:36
DaemonFC Fedora is using it Apr 13 00:37
DaemonFC Mandriva 2010 will Apr 13 00:37
schestowitz       twitter: “I know that but it does not keep me from being responsible.” Apr 13 00:37
schestowitz Exactly Apr 13 00:37
schestowitz There is no moral value in regretting something that happened Apr 13 00:37
_Hicham_ DeamonFC : Progeny offers official support for Debian Apr 13 00:37
schestowitz The responsibility is to act upon something to fix while you can Apr 13 00:37
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : I was an Ubuntu user for more than 3 years Apr 13 00:38
schestowitz _Hicham_: progenty hasn’t existed since 2007 iirc Apr 13 00:39
schestowitz *Progeny Apr 13 00:39
_Hicham_ schestowitz : it is not difficult to get commercial support for Debian Apr 13 00:39
_Hicham_ Progeny was just an example Apr 13 00:40
schestowitz _Hicham_: skip to 30:00 <  http://www.youtube.com/watch… > About media deceiving people Apr 13 00:40
DaemonFC Ubuntu used to have a supported aptitude upgrade path Apr 13 00:40
schestowitz Chalmers Johnson is brilliant Apr 13 00:40
DaemonFC to get a Debian system to turn into an Ubuntu system Apr 13 00:40
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : to lock u in Apr 13 00:40
_Hicham_ as if they were doing of their own Apr 13 00:41
_Hicham_ Ubuntu is basically a bunch of ex-debian devs who weren’t going well inside the community Apr 13 00:41
_Hicham_ Shuttleworth is an ex debian dev Apr 13 00:42
_Hicham_ debian model is more robust than ubuntu’s Apr 13 00:42
_Hicham_ especially for corporate entities Apr 13 00:43
_Hicham_ plus Ubuntu suffers from big stability issues Apr 13 00:43
_Hicham_ take for example, Ubuntu 8.04, they shipped a beta firefox in it Apr 13 00:44
_Hicham_ and it is supposted to be long term supported Apr 13 00:44
_Hicham_ and I am not that Ubuntu is bad, it is a great distro Apr 13 00:46
DaemonFC because as soon as you get an update….it is Firefox 3.0.8 Apr 13 00:46
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 00:46
DaemonFC Firefox 2 was too old and behind Firefox 3 to even want to mess with Apr 13 00:46
DaemonFC even if that meant shipping with a beta Apr 13 00:46
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_Hicham_ do u remember this beta’s problems? Apr 13 00:48
_Hicham_ it still had the horrible fsync problem Apr 13 00:48
DaemonFC still does Apr 13 00:49
_Hicham_ not that bad Apr 13 00:50
DaemonFC why nitpick about that though when KDE and GNOME use tons of little settings files Apr 13 00:50
DaemonFC that are constantly being written to Apr 13 00:50
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 00:50
DaemonFC that’s just begging for data loss if the system goes down suddenly Apr 13 00:51
_Hicham_ GNOME uses gconf Apr 13 00:52
_Hicham_ and KDE uses kconf Apr 13 00:52
_Hicham_ it is a Windows Registry implementation in Linux Apr 13 00:52
DaemonFC no Apr 13 00:54
DaemonFC it’s a front end to the various scattered files in ~/.gnome Apr 13 00:54
DaemonFC or ~/.kde Apr 13 00:54
_Hicham_ and what is the difference then? Apr 13 00:55
_Hicham_ Windows uses hive files in system32 Apr 13 00:56
_Hicham_ they are scattered in a folder in system32 Apr 13 00:56
_Hicham_ so what is the difference? Apr 13 00:56
_Hicham_ xml vs hive files? Apr 13 00:56
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MinceR the difference is that config files are human-readable, editable and more resistant to damage Apr 13 01:14
MinceR also, file system access controls work on them Apr 13 01:15
MinceR and they can be managed with scripts, version controlled, etc. Apr 13 01:15
schestowitz gn Apr 13 01:16
MinceR o/ Apr 13 01:35
twitter unlike the Windows registry, a broken config file won’t keep your computer from booting and you can generate a new one easily. Apr 13 01:47
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DaemonFC I’ve never lost any data with XFS when the system went down with no warning, but I lost several hundred megs with Ext4 when I had jsut downloaded some kernel patches and had un-tarred some kernel source Apr 13 01:50
DaemonFC it was so corrupt I had to delete all of it and start over, and it somehow took out some of my GNOME settings too Apr 13 01:50
silentivm I never had data loss with either Ext3, Ext4, ReiserFS or XFS Apr 13 01:52
DaemonFC Reiser and Ext4 were the only problematic ones I’ve seen Apr 13 01:53
DaemonFC Ext3 and XFS are at least fairly recoverable Apr 13 01:53
silentivm the only FS I’ve had data loss with was FAT32, but it doesn’t count Apr 13 01:53
MinceR gn Apr 13 01:54
DaemonFC FAT32 kept a backup allocation table Apr 13 01:54
silentivm gn Apr 13 01:54
DaemonFC Scandisk could restore it if needed Apr 13 01:54
DaemonFC gn Apr 13 01:54
silentivm DaemonFC, … which also got corrupted in my case Apr 13 01:54
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 01:54
silentivm it was when I still bothered with Windows, this was a long time ago Apr 13 01:54
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DaemonFC Windows 9x blue screened for far more reasons than NT does Apr 13 01:56
silentivm exactly Apr 13 01:56
DaemonFC in 9x it was expected that you would get them often Apr 13 01:56
DaemonFC in NT it’s really something serious Apr 13 01:56
silentivm yep Apr 13 01:56
DaemonFC the way I remember 9x was that you’d get at least a blue screen every day, sometimes two Apr 13 01:57
DaemonFC I’ve seen a handful between NT through Vista Apr 13 01:57
silentivm so did I Apr 13 01:57
DaemonFC and MANY on 7 Apr 13 01:57
DaemonFC that’s why Office has automatic backups Apr 13 01:58
silentivm yep Apr 13 01:58
DaemonFC because that way when 98 BSOD’d you’d “only” lose 10 minutes of work and not hours Apr 13 01:58
silentivm if nothing was corrupted because of the crash, then yes Apr 13 01:59
silentivm otherwise… Apr 13 01:59
DaemonFC but this “feature” itself would freeze Office every ten minutes and make you lose your train of thought B-) Apr 13 01:59
silentivm :D Apr 13 01:59
DaemonFC probably explains most of the documents written around that era in MS Office Apr 13 01:59
silentivm :) Apr 13 01:59
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twitter1 :) Apr 13 02:27
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twitter1 hmph, W32 virus hits US hospitals at U of Utah http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-1… Apr 13 03:05
twitter1 conficker continues to break people dumb enough to use windoze. Apr 13 03:05
twitter1 ” Patient records have not been touched, Nelson said. IT cut off Net access for up to six hours on Friday in order to isolate the virus, the AP reported.”  Yeah, right. Apr 13 03:06
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DaemonFC DaemonFC> he uses Windows…like he knows what Tab Complete is. You may as well have asked him how the warp core is functioning in his 1988 Geo Metro. Apr 13 03:06
DaemonFC B-) Apr 13 03:06
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amarsh04 oiaohm and schestowitz, I’m way behind the in the scroll-back but my non-it university student step-daughter alerted me to the fact that her uni had removed OOo: http://www.adelaide.edu.au/its/proje… Apr 13 06:30
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schestowitz ACTA leaked:… Apr 13 07:29
schestowitz PJ has turned the point I sent to her into an article: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s… Apr 13 08:01
schestowitz Labour wants free labour (watch ‘glamour’ photo of Brown): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk… Apr 13 08:21
schestowitz http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/… “If the UK is really not becoming a police state, then the police must demonstrate their independence of the government today by immediately arresting Damian McBride, Charlie Whelan and Tom Watson for the crime of misconduct in public office. “ Apr 13 08:25
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zer0c00l The BJP’s awkward embrace of Free Software: http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/10/stori… Apr 13 08:49
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oiaohm amarsh04: Firefox 2.0.0 << Kinda a little out of date on the auto deployment system. Apr 13 08:55
schestowitz oiaohm: you’ve got to listen to the last 20 minutes of this: http://www.youtube.com/watc… Apr 13 08:58
oiaohm Its happening to Microsoft as well schestowitz Apr 13 09:05
schestowitz http://www.soaw.org/ Apr 13 09:05
schestowitz oiaohm: well, it’s part of the US Apr 13 09:05
schestowitz The above URL is about the training by CIA of terrorists who overthrow governments. Apr 13 09:06
schestowitz It’s interesting that the CIA even organised interception of planes with American people to incite against leaders in South America Apr 13 09:06
oiaohm Terrorists = shills in the business world. Apr 13 09:07
oiaohm Both powered by myths. Apr 13 09:07
schestowitz Turns out the UK had wealth prior to WW1 Apr 13 09:07
DaemonFC http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Apr 13 09:07
schestowitz 10% of GDP Apr 13 09:07
schestowitz Now it’s $3 trillion or so in debt Apr 13 09:07
DaemonFC At least our new President is literate Apr 13 09:08
DaemonFC :) Apr 13 09:08
schestowitz I think Bush was faking. So they said… even the accent Apr 13 09:10
DaemonFC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v… Apr 13 09:20
DaemonFC “Well they may not eat babies, but they ain’t too far off, they’ll euthanize your grandma just cause she has a cough, so stay away from Canada and you’ll be doin’ well, but if you don’t you’ll see the Numa Numa guy in Hell….They got the National Healthcare, it’s such a dirty trick, they’ll help you just as soon as Joseph Stalin says you’re sick…”Cause there’s no such thing as a good Canadian, good Canadian, good Canadian….” Apr 13 09:20
DaemonFC lmao Apr 13 09:20
schestowitz Is that first one a reference to the Monster from Munster? Apr 13 09:21
DaemonFC that guy is so funny, you should catch on if you’ve watched his other stuff that it’s satire, so don’t get too mad Apr 13 09:21
DaemonFC huh? Apr 13 09:22
schestowitz Yes, I figured that Apr 13 09:22
schestowitz Maybe offensive to some people, not only those whom he speaks about but also that whom he impoersonates Apr 13 09:23
DaemonFC I follow that stuff and Shelley The Republican Apr 13 09:23
DaemonFC oh at least the Liberals have a sense of humor B-) Apr 13 09:23
DaemonFC schestowitz: I guess it doesn’t take much effort to lampoon organizations that almost parody themselves, but it’s still funny sometimes Apr 13 09:24
DaemonFC schestowitz: I guess I’m just the product of watching too much news as a child Apr 13 09:26
DaemonFC I have a high tolerance for BS now Apr 13 09:27
schestowitz There is no ‘News’ Apr 13 09:28
schestowitz The news is not called news Apr 13 09:28
schestowitz Money is made by the press by selling a line, as they say in Russia Apr 13 09:29
DaemonFC schestowitz: I ended up emailing our library complaining about the use of my tax dollars Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz You want news? Seek commentary and interpretation from peers Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz Not centralised authorities Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz They are not lying Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz They are lying by SELECTINO Apr 13 09:29
DaemonFC to create a website optimized for Internet Explorer and which lets you “borrow” audio books Apr 13 09:29
DaemonFC in DRM’d WMA Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz Like evidence they allow journalists to witness (the pool) Apr 13 09:29
schestowitz I am writing about the ACTA at the moment Apr 13 09:30
schestowitz Obama is being a wuss… not allowing people to see it Apr 13 09:30
DaemonFC oh yeah, the Canadians are bending over for the recording industry Apr 13 09:30
DaemonFC they make anything we do look positively awesome Apr 13 09:30
schestowitz It’s not MAFIAA Apr 13 09:30
schestowitz It’s also patents Apr 13 09:30
schestowitz ACTA is very ugly Apr 13 09:30
schestowitz It’s like restrating the IP law Apr 13 09:31
schestowitz From scratch Apr 13 09:31
schestowitz Only people are not involved in it Apr 13 09:31
schestowitz Just corporations like Oracle and Warner Apr 13 09:31
DaemonFC isn’t ACTA that Canadian DMCA on Steroids? Apr 13 09:31
schestowitz I don’t think so Apr 13 09:31
schestowitz It’s a lot broader Apr 13 09:31
DaemonFC oh, it’s WTO bullshit Apr 13 09:32
DaemonFC wonderful Apr 13 09:32
DaemonFC yeah, the WTO is basically a legalized conglomerate of international crime syndicates Apr 13 09:32
schestowitz WIPO? Apr 13 09:33
DaemonFC rewriting laws of various “member countries” without approval by that government in the whole Apr 13 09:33
schestowitz Yes, they are not confined by law Apr 13 09:33
schestowitz Like the Hague Apr 13 09:33
schestowitz Operating on the assumptions that its creators cannot be held accountable. Apr 13 09:33
DaemonFC The WTO has been a scourge on US sovereignty Apr 13 09:34
schestowitz People are never taught to cherish a constitution Apr 13 09:34
DaemonFC makes me wonder what the Clintons and that Congress got bribed with to pass it Apr 13 09:34
schestowitz To make matters worse, they are not even familiar with it Apr 13 09:34
schestowitz Or Magna Carta here. Apr 13 09:34
schestowitz DaemonFC: Clinton did NAFTA Apr 13 09:34
DaemonFC so much of this globalization bullshit got fast tracked under Clinton Apr 13 09:35
schestowitz Huge outrage it deserved, BUT… Apr 13 09:35
DaemonFC that it’s surreal Apr 13 09:35
schestowitz People should not know about the crimes… it leads to unrest :-) Apr 13 09:35
schestowitz Well, they have to figure out how to pay the debt over time Apr 13 09:35
schestowitz Otherwise people will be out of the streets Apr 13 09:35
DaemonFC meh, power is money, and once a nation signs over its authority to make and control currency Apr 13 09:35
schestowitz Lenders are from places like Japan and China Apr 13 09:35
DaemonFC it no longer rules Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC the bank does Apr 13 09:36
schestowitz Wait until nations start dropping the dollar Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC that’s what happened in the UK Apr 13 09:36
schestowitz /that/ would be the collapse of Wall Street, not Oct/Sep 2008 Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC took over 100 years to have happen here Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC but it happened Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC 1913 Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC the Federal Reserve and the Federal Income Tax Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC and the IRS Apr 13 09:36
DaemonFC it doesn’t matter, it won’t be them doing it Apr 13 09:37
DaemonFC it will be their Central Bank Apr 13 09:37
DaemonFC about every semi-modern country has made their financial system a semi-autonomous system Apr 13 09:38
DaemonFC dollars aren’t real, pounds aren’t real, Euros are not real Apr 13 09:38
DaemonFC they are just promissory notes Apr 13 09:39
DaemonFC counterfeited out of thin air Apr 13 09:39
DaemonFC it’s funny how economics work considering that money is imaginary and it’s just buying and selling of debt which in turn represents slavery at some point Apr 13 09:40
DaemonFC the bottom rungs of society, the people making minimum wages are the ones who are enslaved, and the top 10% control over 60% of the “money” which represents how much slavery they can demand Apr 13 09:41
DaemonFC schestowitz: The idea of intellectual property is just a plug-in for the idea of money Apr 13 09:42
DaemonFC you owe me someone elses real labor or goods for something intangible that the law says I have a right to grant you Apr 13 09:42
DaemonFC so money and Imaginary Property are both the inevitable result of a fiat currency system Apr 13 09:43
DaemonFC because the two are not all that dissimilar Apr 13 09:43
DaemonFC now the WTO and so-called free trade just make the process apply internationally, and then the bank cartels and the patent trolls can all prey on each others pool of slave labor Apr 13 09:44
DaemonFC it’s really much more efficient that way Apr 13 09:44
DaemonFC ;) Apr 13 09:44
DaemonFC schestowitz: And don’t even get me started on the “Fractional Reserve System” part of Modern Money Mechanics Apr 13 09:45
DaemonFC I assume it works the same in your area of the world, since you jsut reside in a semi-autonomous region of the “international community” Apr 13 09:46
DaemonFC :D Apr 13 09:46
schestowitz DaemonFC: catching up Apr 13 09:48
schestowitz    >dollars aren’t real, pounds aren’t real, Euros are not real Apr 13 09:48
schestowitz Money is symbolic Apr 13 09:48
DaemonFC schestowitz: For what it’s worth, I can see several parts of ACTA that blatantly violate the United States Constitution Apr 13 09:48
schestowitz It represents ownership of real asets Apr 13 09:48
*ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p1050-ipad13yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 13 09:49
DaemonFC mostly the 4th Amendment Apr 13 09:49
schestowitz Like a note from your mom saying you deserve a lump of gold Apr 13 09:49
schestowitz The issue comes about when you cannot redeem this coupon Apr 13 09:49
DaemonFC oh, how many of those do I need to buy your car? Apr 13 09:49
*DaemonFC calls his mom Apr 13 09:49
schestowitz Of your 401k pension if declared void overnight Apr 13 09:49
DaemonFC :P Apr 13 09:49
schestowitz         “For what it’s worth, I can see several parts of ACTA that blatantly violate the United States Constitution” Apr 13 09:50
schestowitz DaemonFC: constiution schmostiution. Apr 13 09:50
schestowitz They already mocked it before Apr 13 09:51
DaemonFC ISP cooperation / The leaked document includes a provision to force Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to provide information about suspected copyright infringers without a warrant, making it easier for the record industry to sue music file sharers and for officials to shut down non-commercial BitTorrent websites such as The Pirate Bay. Apr 13 09:51
schestowitz Laws passed prior to that without resistance from people (or FOX) Apr 13 09:51
DaemonFC Fourth Amendment / The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Apr 13 09:51
schestowitz How can one fight it? Apr 13 09:52
schestowitz Well, how does one issue a veto in democracies? Apr 13 09:52
DaemonFC in the court system Apr 13 09:52
DaemonFC the court can strike any law that goes against the constitution Apr 13 09:52
schestowitz Under current laws Bush can call you a “bad guy” if he doesn’t like you and send you to North Carolina to some facility and throw away the key Apr 13 09:53
DaemonFC Bush can’t do anything ;) Apr 13 09:53
schestowitz That in itself, I believe, contradicts your constitution Apr 13 09:53
DaemonFC Bush can sign books Apr 13 09:53
schestowitz In the past you needed evidence Apr 13 09:53
DaemonFC and open a library Apr 13 09:53
schestowitz Can’t recall the latin phrase it’s called Apr 13 09:53
DaemonFC that’s what former presidents usually do ;) Apr 13 09:53
schestowitz Ad Hobrus or something… Apr 13 09:54
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 13 09:54
DaemonFC schestowitz: And no Apr 13 09:54
DaemonFC the argument was if you were an “enemy combatant” “captured on foreign soil” they argued that they could hold you in a prison that was not on “US territory” and technically not violate the constitution Apr 13 09:55
DaemonFC it was a flimsly argument Apr 13 09:55
DaemonFC *flimsy Apr 13 09:55
DaemonFC now since I am neither an enemy combatant, or on foreign soil, they would have to abduct me from US soil and their flimsy argument falls apart Apr 13 09:56
DaemonFC I suppose you could be cynical and say “They could make another excuse” Apr 13 09:56
DaemonFC but so far that hasn’t happened Apr 13 09:56
DaemonFC *and* the Supreme Court order stands Apr 13 09:57
DaemonFC which nullified Bush’s argument that detainees do not have Habeas Corpus rights Apr 13 09:58
DaemonFC and Obama has signed an Executive Order to cease all tribunals while they decide who to try in civilian courts Apr 13 09:58
DaemonFC with civilian jurors Apr 13 09:58
schestowitz Yeah, well… that’s the characteristic of a state going out of control Apr 13 09:58
DaemonFC so I’m hopeful that the Bush era is over with Apr 13 09:59
DaemonFC and at least mostly buried Apr 13 09:59
schestowitz They need to prosecute him Apr 13 09:59
schestowitz But he was the ring leader, so the same people who needed to be prosecuted are STILL in charge Apr 13 09:59
schestowitz Some of those in the Pentagn Apr 13 09:59
DaemonFC Well, right now I think they’re trying to unfuck what he and his guys did over the last 8 years Apr 13 09:59
schestowitz You never get to elect those. Apr 13 09:59
DaemonFC and they did a lot of nasty shit Apr 13 09:59
DaemonFC and set a lot of bad precedents Apr 13 10:00
schestowitz Take Northern Alliance or whatever it’s called Apr 13 10:00
schestowitz In essense, orders are sent without a democracy out of Arlington. Apr 13 10:00
schestowitz Not the White House. Apr 13 10:00
schestowitz For ‘your security’ Apr 13 10:00
DaemonFC well, I’d say that I’d rather see this government trying to untangle Bush’s mess Apr 13 10:00
DaemonFC than a President McCain trying to dig us deeper :) Apr 13 10:00
schestowitz But MaCain is a Maverick! :-) Apr 13 10:01
schestowitz *McCain Apr 13 10:01
DaemonFC I’ve only ever voted cause of Bush Apr 13 10:01
DaemonFC he alone has ruined me on the idea of ever voting for anyone in his party, ever Apr 13 10:01
DaemonFC McCain’s biggest boost came from the borderline Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazi rallies they held Apr 13 10:02
*ushimitsudoki1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Apr 13 10:03
DaemonFC Christianity has always been within arms reach of racist and homophobic and anti-semitic militant groups Apr 13 10:04
DaemonFC so it doesn’t surprise me that a lot of their factions were throwing in with McCain Apr 13 10:04
DaemonFC schestowitz: They’re what Joseph Stalin would have referred to as “useful idiots” Apr 13 10:05
DaemonFC the kind that get you into power Apr 13 10:05
DaemonFC you don’t necessarily agree with their radical thinking, but you pretend to to get their support Apr 13 10:06
DaemonFC I think we were heading to a fascist state that no longer would even try to pretend to be anything else Apr 13 10:07
DaemonFC and we came that close Apr 13 10:07
schestowitz DaemonFC: where is information received? Apr 13 10:08
schestowitz That’s the key Apr 13 10:08
schestowitz You shape a person’s behaviour (output) through  dis/information (input) Apr 13 10:08
schestowitz Murdoch uses the network to promote a party line Apr 13 10:08
DaemonFC The same kind of people that threw in with Hitler and the Nazis (at the risk of Godwins Law) are the same types you saw at the McCain rallies Apr 13 10:08
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