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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 17th, 2009 - Part 2

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oiaohmallow torrent to keep on operating for a while without the central tracker.Apr 17 14:02
oiaohmIt does not stop it.   The effect is slowing.Apr 17 14:02
MinceRyes, a new peer is slowed so far that he can't get a single address from the tracker.Apr 17 14:03
MinceRdownloads tend to be slow when you don't know who you can download from.Apr 17 14:03
MinceRbut it's also known as being completely stopped. :>Apr 17 14:04
oiaohmUser using a client with client to client interlinking would not be stoped.Apr 17 14:05
oiaohmyes pure torrent client yes stoped.Apr 17 14:05
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oiaohmMinceR: do you recheck with sites you are downloading torrents from for messages about problmes with torrents.  Most people don't.Apr 17 14:07
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MinceRi don'tApr 17 14:08
oiaohmIs it possiable to put suspect torrents on different tracker.    So breaking it but allows it to be reconnected to it if you choose to proceed.  Answer is yes.Apr 17 14:09
MinceRbut i do virus scan the stuff if it includes executablesApr 17 14:09
MinceRoiaohm: it wouldn't be the case if you made it mandatory for all trackers to take it down.Apr 17 14:10
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oiaohmIts time MinceR.Apr 17 14:10
oiaohmTo get a court order on something by the time you get it you could already have a very large infection.Apr 17 14:11
MinceR(that is, if i intend to run those executables)Apr 17 14:11
oiaohmUnder providing care there was a lot of things TPB could have done.Apr 17 14:12
oiaohmSimply choosing not to do anything.   Really is lack of care.Apr 17 14:13
MinceRactually they did a lot of things, just not about malware. :>Apr 17 14:13
oiaohmmalware is just something important to do something about.Apr 17 14:14
iwmwhow do you imagine them filtering manually every torrentApr 17 14:15
oiaohmThere is only so much protection systems can do.    With secuirty flaws time is a issue.Apr 17 14:15
oiaohmThey are many ways to do it iwmwApr 17 14:16
iwmwyeah, like a bot downloading every torrent and checking it for viruses and stuffApr 17 14:17
iwmwhow much bandwidth is it?Apr 17 14:17
oiaohmOne is a set of trusted downloaders when they report respond.  Ok not everything protected.  At an attempt.Apr 17 14:17
oiaohmMonitoring comments.Apr 17 14:17
oiaohmLot of comments on infected torrents would clearly appear marked as such.Apr 17 14:18
oiaohmSo yes no they did not have to download every torrent to be able to respond.Apr 17 14:18
iwmwand what... it would lead to abusesApr 17 14:19
oiaohmIts like the kernel development tree.  Over time you would have a list of people reporting problems who you could trust not to be lieing.Apr 17 14:20
oiaohmLieing there reports in future get disreguarded.Apr 17 14:20
iwmwdoes tpb require registration?Apr 17 14:20
oiaohmFor there vpn service yes.Apr 17 14:20
iwmwto post a commentApr 17 14:21
oiaohmI think so.Apr 17 14:21
oiaohmThis is my point there were options open to TPB.Apr 17 14:21
oiaohmChoosing sit back let problems happen makes me hate them.Apr 17 14:22
oiaohmIf they hard tried something at least and failed I would have had no problem with them.Apr 17 14:23
iwmwso what will you do when there are fake posts about virusesApr 17 14:23
iwmwin order to check whether they are fake yo gotta dl and check it for sureApr 17 14:23
oiaohmSomeone has to.Apr 17 14:24
iwmwso it's dl of every torrent in either caseApr 17 14:24
oiaohmSomeone that you trust.Apr 17 14:24
iwmwyeah, a botApr 17 14:24
oiaohmThat is why setting up something like this without killing self with downlaods takes time.Apr 17 14:25
oiaohmAlso why suspect file most likely would be first move tracker to make people aware it suspect.Apr 17 14:25
MinceRoiaohm: then the comments would be flooded with fake reports by the MAFIAA.Apr 17 14:25
oiaohmThen when got a report from someone who over time has proven to be valid then removed.Apr 17 14:26
iwmwin which way he becomes proven?Apr 17 14:26
MinceRtrusted users could vote that a given torrent is infected and it could be shown in the header. nothing more needs to be done.Apr 17 14:26
oiaohmActions.Apr 17 14:26
MinceRjust like good/bad torrents now.Apr 17 14:26
iwmwhow do you choose trusted users?Apr 17 14:26
MinceRdunno, but they already do, afaikApr 17 14:27
ushimitsudoki1oiaohm: you realize you are acting like a problem that the largest web sites on the planet (slashdot, you tube, etc.) wrestle with (user-submitted good vs. user-submitted bad) is some simple problem that TPB are idiots for not solving?Apr 17 14:27
MinceRi've seen some icons, but never really caredApr 17 14:27
iwmwthat's like explaining the sorting algorithm:Apr 17 14:27
schestowitzYupApr 17 14:28
iwmwa array of unsorted elements and b will contain a sortedApr 17 14:28
oiaohmushimitsudoki1: no system is perfect.Apr 17 14:28
iwmwwe just put element by element there and it's sortedApr 17 14:28
iwmwidk how it's done... but they already do itApr 17 14:28
oiaohmThe difference here is once people start downloading a torrent how often do they return to the tracking site.Apr 17 14:29
ushimitsudoki1oiaohm: so why the "hate"? TPB did implement trusted user icons. How far exactly should they go? Too far and they present the appearance that they are inspecting and sanctioning the uploads - which makes the "search engine" defense awful thinApr 17 14:29
MinceRiwmw: duh, just call sort() on it ;)Apr 17 14:29
iwmwlol, i know many sorting algorithmsApr 17 14:29
iwmwand prefer to use appropriate rather than lame sort()Apr 17 14:29
oiaohmNote trusted users can also say the reverse ushimitsudoki1Apr 17 14:30
ushimitsudoki1what reverse?Apr 17 14:30
oiaohmThat the mark of infection is wrong.Apr 17 14:30
iwmwthat's a lame bsApr 17 14:30
iwmwvoting system and stuffApr 17 14:30
iwmwyou either check it yourself or notApr 17 14:31
iwmwcomments are quite enough to be awareApr 17 14:32
oiaohmDo you the big problem with check it yourself.Apr 17 14:32
oiaohmIf something is targeted to avoid the software you are using to check it can get past.Apr 17 14:33
MinceRthen write sw that can command multiple engines to check itApr 17 14:33
iwmwthat's why you will check with diff softwareApr 17 14:33
oiaohmThere are a large block of torrents that will not be infected and will not be damaged.Apr 17 14:33
MinceRthen you check it once and they'll have to bypass all of themApr 17 14:33
MinceRas for your "trusted users" idea -- how do you know they won't infiltrate that set?Apr 17 14:33
oiaohmMinceR: Most common thing that gives that way is conflit.Apr 17 14:35
oiaohmOther thing do trust users have to be told they are.Apr 17 14:35
MinceRalso note that this takes a lot of effort and it is not the primary purpose of such a site.Apr 17 14:35
ushimitsudoki1When you have a web site that relies on user-submission and user-moderation, and you want to prevent system-gaming, you have an analogous problem to the situation where the user has encrypted data and the key (DRM). There is no good "solution". Acting like TPB fails here is ignorance.Apr 17 14:35
MinceRif you're afraid of malware and can't handle it, don't download warez.Apr 17 14:35
iwmwtotally agreeApr 17 14:36
oiaohmThe sad part is most people who get infected though warez infect people who don't download warez.Apr 17 14:37
iwmwyou shouldn't kill wolves to feed the sheepApr 17 14:37
oiaohmThey are the wolves.Apr 17 14:37
oiaohmThat are killing the sheep.Apr 17 14:37
iwmwno, they are sheeps allApr 17 14:37
MinceRlet's make them magically care about the computers of the others!Apr 17 14:38
iwmwand those who produce infected stuff are wolvesApr 17 14:38
MinceRoh, waitApr 17 14:38
MinceRalso, let's make up analogies that make absolutely no senseApr 17 14:38
*iwmw likes analogiesApr 17 14:38
MinceRiwmw: i demand a car analogy!Apr 17 14:38
MinceR</slashdot>Apr 17 14:39
iwmwi don't like cars too muchApr 17 14:39
iwmwbasically because roads here suck BIG TIMEApr 17 14:39
iwmwyou either try to evade the holes in the road or ride by rules and watch at signsApr 17 14:40
oiaohmIts like you have a supplier of defective breaks made by another maker and you do not expect him to stop or spend selling the defective breaks just because they don't have a court order MinceR.Apr 17 14:40
oiaohmYou asked for a car one MinceRApr 17 14:41
MinceRthis item is whole, therefore it has a defective breakApr 17 14:41
MinceRi need it fixed, i mean brokenApr 17 14:41
oiaohmYet is sold to you as a working Item same with many others.Apr 17 14:43
oiaohmAnd you are all at 1 place reporting problem.Apr 17 14:43
oiaohmShould that go without action.Apr 17 14:43
oiaohmIt not acceptable in normal business so why is it acceptable just because its online.Apr 17 14:44
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MinceRdoes TPB sell anything as working items? no they don'tApr 17 14:47
MinceRif you searched for something on google or yahoo! and found a page that has errors on it, would you think it right to sue google or yahoo! for it?Apr 17 14:48
MinceRwould you expect them to remove it from their index?Apr 17 14:48
oiaohmErrors no.Apr 17 14:49
oiaohmInfected ie harmful warning at min.  Removals do happen from there indexs over infections.Apr 17 14:50
oiaohmGoogle and Yahoo will both act on reports from Anti-virus companies without court orders.Apr 17 14:51
oiaohmEven MS live search will.Apr 17 14:52
trmancoschestowitz, did you're wiki have any problems?Apr 17 14:52
oiaohmTPB in reguard to viruses and malware they are not the norm for a search site.Apr 17 14:53
schestowitztrmanco: NopeApr 17 14:53
schestowitzJust a spammerApr 17 14:53
schestowitzNo more problem than Wikipedia's when someone valdalises an article. Why do you ask?Apr 17 14:53
schestowitzAlso, it was part of an experiment from some university as I understand itApr 17 14:54
trmancohttp://www.boycottnovell.com/wiki...Apr 17 14:54
trmancohttp://graffiti.cs.brown.edu/1b08ca2a21...Apr 17 14:54
trmancoschestowitz, the troll's post caught my attention on GGApr 17 14:55
schestowitzWell, trollsApr 17 14:56
schestowitzAFAIK, they too could vandalise any WikiApr 17 14:56
schestowitzThat's what Wikis doApr 17 14:56
oiaohmAnd that is what off line backups are for.Apr 17 14:56
trmancoI've read that you should implement a captchaApr 17 14:57
trmancoyeah, it's some kind of a university experimentApr 17 14:58
oiaohmMore a experiment how to make a really annoying virus.Apr 17 15:02
oiaohmStuff like that should always be contained in a lab.Apr 17 15:02
MinceRoiaohm: what if it triggers a browser bug that makes it crash or delete data? :>Apr 17 15:02
trmancothe guy explains that the wiki need a good captcha systemApr 17 15:03
oiaohmhttp://recaptcha.net Could also be tracking.Apr 17 15:05
schestowitzParts of this document < http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversio... > appear to have borrowed some observations and quotes from sites like Groklaw, BN, and Comes case, but then again, there's lots of intersection (and place for reuse).Apr 17 15:05
oiaohmI always hate central point solutions.Apr 17 15:06
oiaohmwhat happens if recaptcha site gets dos attacked.Apr 17 15:06
iwmwhehe it will be funnyApr 17 15:07
oiaohmCentral point equals nice single point of failure.Apr 17 15:07
schestowitztrmanco: we already require registration having been spammed beforeApr 17 15:07
schestowitzBut the Wiki is hardly publicApr 17 15:07
oiaohmWe are getting more and more of them.Apr 17 15:07
oiaohmLike google and yahoo web apis.Apr 17 15:07
schestowitzIt's not mentioned in BN because it's work in progressApr 17 15:07
schestowitzI might get helpApr 17 15:07
schestowitz"e've already started tracking them down (I enlisted some helpers :o). It's probably going to take some time, but how vastly annoying would it be to Microsoft's minions to have that information in one place, for the world to see? Organizing it all will be the toughest part, I think."Apr 17 15:08
schestowitzSony-Ericsson calls time on another 2,000 jobs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... >Apr 17 15:15
schestowitzThanks to the police I feel safer. Police delete London tourists' photos 'to prevent terrorism' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/16/... >Apr 17 15:17
schestowitzA win for LaTeX: http://everyone.plos.org/2009/03/24/late...Apr 17 15:19
schestowitzhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/0... "...idiotic Pirate Bay ruling - these were links, people, you know, just like Google - there's a silver lining of sorts."Apr 17 15:23
schestowitzGoogle Is Facing Wrath Of Korean Government Over Snub Of Internet Law  < http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/... >Apr 17 15:25
schestowitzSecond Life (open source) keeps growing: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/fe...Apr 17 15:26
oiaohmwho says google does no good.Apr 17 15:29
*tacone gmail down ?Apr 17 15:29
taconeTPB users sharing files via email.Apr 17 15:30
oiaohmThat would create a nice electronic trail.Apr 17 15:31
iwmwtacone, it's not safe to share files via email nowadaysApr 17 15:34
taconethat was a joke.Apr 17 15:34
taconehttp://bash.org/modapp/Apr 17 15:35
taconeopsApr 17 15:35
taconesorryApr 17 15:35
taconebad window :)Apr 17 15:35
oiaohmI would not be supprised if some will not be that dumb when TPB is down.Apr 17 15:36
schestowitzSharing files is OKApr 17 15:38
schestowitzLike CC-licensed musicApr 17 15:38
schestowitzBy E-mail it's fine tooApr 17 15:38
taconeTPB shuold have filed their appeal before the sentence coming out.Apr 17 15:38
schestowitzWindows zombies' carbon footprint worse Than millions of cars < http://www.internetnews.com/security/arti... >Apr 17 15:40
schestowitztacone: and what if the jury'judge were bought?Apr 17 15:41
tacone?Apr 17 15:41
taconefiling the appeal before the sentence coming out would have just put more relief on the sentence leakingApr 17 15:41
taconeit probably would have not had any legal value.Apr 17 15:42
schestowitzNice demo of Lancelot: http://polishlinux.org/kde/lancelo...Apr 17 15:42
schestowitzbblApr 17 15:43
taconebbApr 17 15:43
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trmancoMicrosoft Software - 1 Billion Users per Day, 500 Million Pirates: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microso...Apr 17 17:11
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trmancohttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009...Apr 17 17:14
trmancohttp://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-148135/w...Apr 17 17:16
schestowitztrmanco: Mirosoft LOVES 'pirates'Apr 17 17:37
schestowitzIt built its business on itApr 17 17:37
trmancoyeah I knowApr 17 17:37
schestowitzNow it wants blowback, paybackApr 17 17:38
taconelike Adobe.Apr 17 17:38
trmancosó it's 50 / 50Apr 17 17:38
schestowitzAnd it pretends it could be where it is without giveawaysApr 17 17:38
schestowitzBTW, I've just told SFLC: "Alan Cox has been a supporter of GPLv3 since the beginning AFAIK (based on two interviews)"Apr 17 17:38
schestowitzI think it's a dead-end with LinusApr 17 17:38
schestowitzHe won't let RMS show any sign of controlApr 17 17:38
DaemonFCGPLv3 has some serious problemsApr 17 17:39
taconecouldn't they be waiting for purpouseApr 17 17:40
tacone?Apr 17 17:40
DaemonFCTorvalds is right, he has no interest in controlling what Tivo does as relates to their hardware box as long as he gets back anything they do to the kernelApr 17 17:40
DaemonFCwhy should he care what Tivo does to their box?Apr 17 17:40
DaemonFCThere's MythTV, if people care that Tivo is doing naughty things they can use MythTVApr 17 17:41
schestowitzIt's not about tivo nowApr 17 17:41
schestowitzIt's about patentsApr 17 17:41
taconesadly GPL3 includes both.Apr 17 17:41
DaemonFCeven without the kernel, they can make most of the GNU utilities GPLv3Apr 17 17:41
DaemonFCa lot of them don't link to the kernelApr 17 17:42
DaemonFCanyway, the GPLv3 is weak and ineffective as relates to NovellApr 17 17:43
schestowitztacone: too bad, eh? :-)Apr 17 17:43
DaemonFCcause they have a loophole built into itApr 17 17:43
schestowitzJust for NovellApr 17 17:43
taconeschestowitz: it's kind of take or leaveApr 17 17:43
schestowitzIt prevented more such dealsApr 17 17:43
taconemono btw is GPL2 with explicit clause preventing it to be distributed as gpl3.Apr 17 17:43
DaemonFCI don't think they should have made any exceptions because it still allows someone to be otu there doing itApr 17 17:44
DaemonFCthey jsut gave Novell an advantage over everyone elseApr 17 17:44
DaemonFCcause now they can do whatever they want with Microsoft and such and nobody else canApr 17 17:44
DaemonFCGPLv3 is like saying "You robbed a bank, now we made a law against robbing banks, but you can do it all you want from now on, but if anyone else robs banks, it's illegal"Apr 17 17:45
schestowitzLinus gave me a long answerApr 17 17:46
taconeOT: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/a...Apr 17 17:46
schestowitztacone: interesting that Mark calls it Free softwarApr 17 17:47
taconeit is, beside some little binary metastasis :-)Apr 17 17:48
taconeI’ve spoken with folks at Novell, and it doesn’t look like there’s an opportunity to coordinate for the moment. In conversations with Steve McIntyre, the current Debian Project Leader, we’ve identified an interesting opportunity to collaborate.Apr 17 17:48
woofyschestowitz, what was the answer?Apr 17 17:48
schestowitzhaven't read it yetApr 17 17:48
schestowitzHold on.Apr 17 17:48
schestowitzI'm just atching up with stuggApr 17 17:49
DaemonFCunfortunately too many free software projects are religious, and not necessarily about free software. They get so used to smelling their own farts that the process becomes enjoyable and they just stay at home sampling their own odors. Mark Shuttleworth just strikes me like thatApr 17 17:49
schestowitzGot to go to the gym in a moment tooApr 17 17:49
taconeDaemonFC: lolApr 17 17:49
schestowitzPheeeeyyy!! "I’ve spoken with folks at Novell,.."Apr 17 17:50
schestowitzWhy not speak to Sweaty Steve directly?Apr 17 17:50
woofysteve balmer?Apr 17 17:50
DaemonFCthey think that because an idea came from them it's inherently better than anyone elses, and even if there's a demand for "Hey, the other guys have some neat stuff too!", they ignore itApr 17 17:50
schestowitzwoofy: yesApr 17 17:50
schestowitzDaemonFC: sounds like projection to me.Apr 17 17:51
taconeI don't think so.Apr 17 17:51
taconethe short release cycle came by gnome afaik.Apr 17 17:52
taconeubuntu is always released 1 month after gnome.Apr 17 17:52
schestowitzI'll reply to Linus, but he makes a strong caseApr 17 17:52
schestowitzHe hates the FSF/SFLCApr 17 17:52
DaemonFCWhich is why you always have to upgrade to unofficial KDE packages in Kubuntu and those may do all kinds of awful thingsApr 17 17:52
DaemonFCbut they're too tempting to resistApr 17 17:52
DaemonFCcause Ubuntu does not do KDE wellApr 17 17:53
DaemonFCor let me rephrase that, sometimes it comes out OK, but it was never their concern that it didApr 17 17:53
DaemonFC:)Apr 17 17:53
DaemonFCWell take Adept for example, there's just never been a good KDE frontend for Debian package management, most people that use Debian or Ubuntu end up installing Synaptic because it's the only competent frontend to aptApr 17 17:55
DaemonFCnow they're doing KPackageKit, and the fact that that's an improvement shows how bad Adept wasApr 17 17:55
DaemonFCI mean, I would have rather seen them just redo Synaptic with QT bindingsApr 17 17:56
DaemonFCI think that would have gone over wellApr 17 17:56
DaemonFCThe problem of package management is the visible chunk of wheel re-inventing on Linux. Here it's obvious that there's at least two dozen variations on the wheel and every proprietor is trying to reinvent them all at the same timeApr 17 17:58
balzac-_-Apr 17 17:58
DaemonFCKPackageKit is just a Least Common Denominator that manages to crawl out of the FreeDesktop pitApr 17 17:58
DaemonFCor Packagekit for that matterApr 17 17:59
DaemonFCIt misses advanced features so that it becomes truly as bad with everyone's packaging backendApr 17 17:59
woofyi just wanted to install debian...Apr 17 18:05
DaemonFCAny desktop you want as long as it's GNOME :)Apr 17 18:06
woofyim just a bit tired of mandrivaApr 17 18:06
DaemonFCPython is the next to commit suicideApr 17 18:07
woofywhat's so bad about py?Apr 17 18:07
DaemonFC"We won't be maintaining 3.0, it's just there to shake out ideas for 3.5"Apr 17 18:07
DaemonFCEveryone will start using 3.0 and we'll be stuck with it foreverApr 17 18:08
DaemonFC:PApr 17 18:08
DaemonFCI'm gonna be making a video of calling my senator's local officeApr 17 18:12
DaemonFC:PApr 17 18:12
woofywhy do you call there?Apr 17 18:13
DaemonFCEmployee Free Choice ActApr 17 18:13
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schestowitzOK, I've got to goApr 17 18:22
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DaemonFCtwareApr 17 18:30
DaemonFCit updated itself and crapped out :PApr 17 18:30
DaemonFCerrr, oopsApr 17 18:30
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woofytwill be funny if someone cracks tpb site and inserts his donation button thereApr 17 18:34
schestowitzJust responded to a long E-mail from Linus, urging him (maybe in vain) to consider GPLv3Apr 17 18:35
taconewhat did linus says in the long mail ?Apr 17 18:35
schestowitzI'll write about it laterApr 17 18:35
schestowitzI've got to goApr 17 18:36
taconebbApr 17 18:36
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trmanco"Don't worry - we're from the internets. It's going to be alright. :-) "Apr 17 18:51
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schestowitztrmanco: where from? :-)Apr 17 20:23
trmancopiratebayApr 17 20:23
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schestowitzGoogle FUD: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1...Apr 17 20:26
taconeon the homepage :-DApr 17 20:26
schestowitzSomeone says: "Notice how he equates Google to doneky porn and how on bly MS can protect the kids through the use of OPEN standards. It's the compination of technobabel and abuse that's the give away"Apr 17 20:26
schestowitzDid you see the Endershit article in Google this week?Apr 17 20:26
schestowitzThey attack Google, not just Apple and Linux nowApr 17 20:26
schestowitzThey also attack GPLv3Apr 17 20:26
BalrogURL?Apr 17 20:26
schestowitzThe Linux migration to another licence can start *somewhere*; Cox already supports it and RHT too (maybe Intel)... I'm probably just ruining my access to Linus by raising this issue, but he can't stay on an old licence forever and he knows itApr 17 20:27
schestowitzBalrog: all sorts os placeApr 17 20:27
Balrogok.Apr 17 20:27
schestowitz*placesApr 17 20:27
schestowitzI have another one comingApr 17 20:28
schestowitzMicrosoft lawyer (it was  a client of their in Europe) attacks the GPL nowApr 17 20:28
schestowitzAnd they bullies Matt Asay for riaising itApr 17 20:28
schestowitz*raising.  http://twitter.com/mjasay/stat... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-102202...Apr 17 20:28
BalrogLinus will have to move to GPLv3 eventually. those who contribute to the kernel should write in their code that 'this file is licensed under the GPLv2 OR LATER'Apr 17 20:28
schestowitzI've had no time to write about this because of meetings. I'll catch up tomorrowApr 17 20:28
Balrogok.Apr 17 20:29
schestowitzIs http://comicsdc.blogspot.com/2009/04... Dan DiDio reltaed to Laura Didio by any chance? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...Apr 17 20:32
schestowitzbrbApr 17 20:32
MinceRhm, apparently gnome-do is using mono, too :/Apr 17 20:32
taconeapparently ?Apr 17 20:33
taconemiguel icaza declares his team 'busy at supporting banshee, tomboy, gnome-do'Apr 17 20:33
tacone(in the linuxoutlaws interview schestowitz cited some day ago)Apr 17 20:34
MinceRwell, i just noticed when looking at htopApr 17 20:34
taconeyes that sucks. and no good alternative exist.Apr 17 20:35
MinceRindeedApr 17 20:36
MinceRthough my desktop is already a bastard hybrid of gnome and kde...Apr 17 20:36
MinceRapparently i can run krunner under gnomeApr 17 20:39
MinceRbut it isn't as good as i had hopedApr 17 20:39
taconeseems like someone shoot in his own feets. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-...Apr 17 20:39
MinceRgnome-do seems to be more powerfulApr 17 20:41
MinceRi hope the Pirate Party wins the next election -- maybe there will be a nice place to move to after allApr 17 20:42
MinceRin europeApr 17 20:42
taconethe goal is to have 1 deputy. so not that change. but good nonetheless.Apr 17 20:43
taconeit's about EU elections, not Swedish.Apr 17 20:43
MinceRoh, i've completely misreadApr 17 20:43
taconethat make sense, as EU is quite influent in those matters.Apr 17 20:44
MinceReven 1 deputy means there will be 1 person in the european parliament who has some clue about freedomApr 17 20:44
taconeright.Apr 17 20:44
taconeand he can make friends :)Apr 17 20:44
MinceRunlike the majority that has to be screamed at to realize that sw patents only make the eu a vassal of the usian megacorpsApr 17 20:44
MinceRBanana UnionApr 17 20:44
taconelolApr 17 20:44
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schestowitzSouth America is moving to LinuxApr 17 20:56
taconemany weak countries are.Apr 17 20:57
schestowitzMaybe DonkeyBallmer will go down south soon and pull another Banana Republic like Nixon or whoever reigned at the time.Apr 17 20:57
taconethey're not corrupted enough, and cannot throw their money awayApr 17 20:57
schestowitzMicrosoft or the other Banana Republic?Apr 17 20:57
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l...Apr 17 20:59
schestowitzTrollticle: "THE RAPID RISE of Russian PC demand over recent years has been fuelled not so much by vodka as by easy access to credit." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news...Apr 17 21:01
trmancowtf "The judge also stated that the usage of BitTorrent at The Pirate Bay is illegal. Rest assured, other torrent sites hosted in Sweden will be keeping a close eye on developments."Apr 17 21:08
schestowitzSpiegel covered the software patents protests in Germany, sorta: http://www.spiegel.de/internati...Apr 17 21:08
schestowitz        trmanco: "sage of BitTorrent at The Pirate Bay is illegal"Apr 17 21:08
schestowitzFunny. I didn't know the site used torrentApr 17 21:08
schestowitzI thought it used port 25 for HTMLApr 17 21:08
trmanco25 for html?Apr 17 21:09
schestowitzYesApr 17 21:09
schestowitzThey serve Web pagesApr 17 21:09
schestowitzPeople just use a protocolsApr 17 21:09
trmancothrough port 80Apr 17 21:09
schestowitzThey can try to kill ports, they can't kill commosApr 17 21:09
schestowitztrmanco: yes, my badApr 17 21:09
schestowitz25 is mail IIRCApr 17 21:09
schestowitzWasn't it?Apr 17 21:09
trmanco:-PApr 17 21:09
schestowitzSMTP?Apr 17 21:09
trmancodon't recallApr 17 21:10
schestowitzWell, you could use any port for HTMLApr 17 21:10
schestowitzNot defaultApr 17 21:10
schestowitzI use 81 on my PCApr 17 21:10
Balrogyes, port 25 is smtp but they're moving away from itApr 17 21:10
schestowitzWhy?Apr 17 21:10
trmancoyeah, append site.com:[port]Apr 17 21:10
schestowitzI dread this:Apr 17 21:10
Balrogbecause of open relaysApr 17 21:10
schestowitzLike Mozilla says GMail makes Thunderbird obsoleteApr 17 21:10
schestowitzWhhich is is nonsense unless stupid universities offshore E-mailApr 17 21:10
schestowitzThey could try to phase out E-mailApr 17 21:11
schestowitzAnd create something more centralise they can scan more easilyApr 17 21:11
schestowitzThis is outrageous. Watch what software patents are doing even to charities: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Apac...Apr 17 21:13
schestowitzBalrog: they should fight Windows zombies (or Windows), not open relays that just do what they are supposed toApr 17 21:14
BalrogI know :/Apr 17 21:15
Balroghere they offshore email :(Apr 17 21:15
schestowitzAdam Williamson defends Ubuntu from advisories this time around: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto...Apr 17 21:17
schestowitzBalrog: they mustn'tApr 17 21:17
schestowitzOr...Apr 17 21:17
schestowitzThey should allow people to out optApr 17 21:17
schestowitzThey turn young people to customers of a company they collude withApr 17 21:18
schestowitzNot only Microsoft, assuming they use WIndows and Office and force its useApr 17 21:18
schestowitzNot to mention OOXML shacklesApr 17 21:18
schestowitzI don't understand why Sam attacks Ubuntu..... :--( http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...Apr 17 21:18
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Balrogthe CIS department runs their own servers. They refuse to give away control. But the main computer people do what they feel like. They give faculty Exchange ActiveSync accounts (without POP or IMAP, apparently, but I can't be sure) and students gmailApr 17 21:19
BalrogI can't tell them what to do :XApr 17 21:20
schestowitzWOT? Byfield now writes for LinuxMag, but he's talking badly about a successful contest: http://www.heraldbanner.com/local/...Apr 17 21:22
schestowitzHe said he stopped advocating Apr 17 21:22
schestowitzBut what's he on about? The contest made lots of good Linux advertsApr 17 21:23
taconewhere's the link of sam's ?Apr 17 21:23
taconenevermind, foundApr 17 21:24
schestowitzMore garbage (link is a rebuttal to) from the provocative writers: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor...Apr 17 21:24
schestowitzIt's silly what he didApr 17 21:25
schestowitzAnd he once wrote to me complainting about my headlineApr 17 21:25
schestowitzSpecifically because of this headline: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/...Apr 17 21:25
schestowitzSome SUSEr from identica got upset by a comment of mine about SUSEApr 17 21:27
schestowitzThey tend to forget that both suse and opensuse are novell trademarks (and projects likewise)Apr 17 21:28
schestowitzSUSE is dying, slowlyApr 17 21:28
schestowitzThe amount of volunteers I find in opensuse declinesApr 17 21:28
schestowitzEven Germans are moving to Debian/buntuApr 17 21:28
schestowitzAn age of dying IP and.... the cryptic process of ACTA (like MAFTA) tells you how afraid they are now. Like MS and FAT...Apr 17 21:30
tacone"Who’s that fourth chap we don’t know?" lolApr 17 21:30
schestowitzHappy hacking: Administration to release Bush-era interrogation memos < http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS... >Apr 17 21:32
schestowitztacone: I wrote it in a hurryApr 17 21:32
schestowitzEven using IRCApr 17 21:32
schestowitzAnd it annoyed a lot of peopleApr 17 21:32
taconevery nice :)Apr 17 21:32
schestowitzEnterpriseBunutu.. IP EditionApr 17 21:33
taconeBananaBuntuApr 17 21:33
taconei like Ubuntu but sam is not that wrong, btw.Apr 17 21:33
schestowitzWell, I know... but he puts it poorlyApr 17 21:34
schestowitzBecause it's seen as aggravationApr 17 21:34
schestowitzLike my hastily chosen headlineApr 17 21:34
schestowitzI gave Shattleworth a lot of trouble, not because of I wanted to: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os...Apr 17 21:34
schestowitzIn general, it's nice of him to respond to things I write. He's now saying "Free software" :-) :-)Apr 17 21:35
taconei remember sabdfl blogging about the ms codecs thing.Apr 17 21:35
schestowitzWhen you see a girl's name adding you to twitter, then  it's often a bot, based on experience: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... Apr 17 21:37
schestowitzsabdfl?Apr 17 21:37
taconesabdfl = shuttleworth nick.Apr 17 21:38
schestowitzHow will cable companies stop this? http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... Thinner 'pines'?Apr 17 21:39
schestowitzDoes it have a meaning this abbr?Apr 17 21:39
schestowitzhehe. http://www.blogicalthoughts.co...Apr 17 21:40
schestowitz Google offers free music downloads in China < http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS... > Hard competition for the MAFIAA.Apr 17 21:42
schestowitzIs it NSA or is it SA? "NSA Broke New Eavesdropping Law" < http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok... >Apr 17 21:43
schestowitzCan a customer return the Kindle to the shop claiming it is defective (by design)? http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/n...Apr 17 21:46
schestowitzTwitter's 'special' friend gets award for malicious hacking: Twitter worm author gets security job < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... >Apr 17 21:53
taconefacebook governance: http://apps.facebook.com/fbsitevote...Apr 17 22:07
schestowitzFor a moment there I thought it was about the government governing this thing, which it is in the sense that it's spying toolApr 17 22:10
taconerumors about fbi using it :) brrApr 17 22:11
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schestowitzTroll headline: Red Hat pulls a Microsoft, goes after the channel < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1... >Apr 17 22:18
schestowitztacone: not rumour, true, AFAIKApr 17 22:18
schestowitzThe British police IIRC uses itApr 17 22:18
schestowitzWhy investigate how people relate to one another when it's all out there onlineApr 17 22:18
schestowitzOnce again that Black F*Duck software Microsoft offshoot is used as a spokesman for FOSS (Black Duck is proprietary): http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-sou...Apr 17 22:20
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taconedo they have admin access ?Apr 17 22:24
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PetoKraushmmApr 17 22:29
PetoKrausthe TPB thing is sadApr 17 22:29
PetoKrausvery very very sadApr 17 22:29
schestowitztacone: you use WordPress. This site < http://www.cmswire.com/cms/web-cms... > says you should bow to DeIcaKa.Apr 17 22:30
taconeMark Shuttleworth - The founder of Canonical, Ltd., and patron of Ubuntu and KDEApr 17 22:30
schestowitzHe's all rightApr 17 22:31
schestowitzI like Mark ShuttleworthApr 17 22:31
taconekde ?Apr 17 22:31
schestowitztacone: yesApr 17 22:31
schestowitztacone: notice how that same site puts Microsoft at top of Linux contribs IIRCApr 17 22:32
schestowitzIf it's not idiotic trolling, I don't know what isApr 17 22:32
taconeignorance ?Apr 17 22:32
schestowitzAnd many people miss the point that interoperability is codeword for patents, it's not standards.Apr 17 22:32
schestowitztacone: I dunnoApr 17 22:32
schestowitzThat site seemingly cropped up out of nowhere.Apr 17 22:33
schestowitzBut I can see the logicApr 17 22:33
schestowitzThe page says "people who contributed the most to open source" (IIRC)Apr 17 22:33
schestowitzNow, if Microsoft is a top contributor, then de IcaKa maybe fits in there.Apr 17 22:34
taconeseems just the yet another wanna-be-a-rich-blogger to meApr 17 22:34
schestowitzThere are no rich blogegrsApr 17 22:34
schestowitzThere are those who are poor bloggers and those who are faking itApr 17 22:34
schestowitzAnd those who like Om Malik AstroTurf for MicrosoftApr 17 22:35
schestowitz[]"People-ready" fiasco]Apr 17 22:35
schestowitzMichael Larabel gets lots of schwag -- h/w to reviewApr 17 22:35
schestowitzI wonder if eh auctions it on eBay or something.Apr 17 22:35
schestowitzHe told me he's got heaps of spare h/w around his houseApr 17 22:35
schestowitzThis chap, http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-... (Savio Rodrigues), wants to turn FOSS to proprietary money machine. I don't get his mental approach to it, but then again he works for IBM, so -- ha!Apr 17 22:38
schestowitzAw God.. Slahshdot entertains an Apple+MSFT shareholder who trolls FOSS: http://news.slashdot.org/article...Apr 17 22:39
schestowitzSo much coverage for Ubuntu RC, but my beloved  Mandriva gets no media attention for RC2 :-(Apr 17 22:46
taconewellApr 17 22:47
taconeubuntu catches all attention.Apr 17 22:47
taconewe're even lucky in that. it may be fedora, or suse.Apr 17 22:47
schestowitzhttp://www.embedded.com/products/... <- this is for  Symbian, a software patent lobbyists from a DRM-loving and Ogg-hating companyApr 17 22:52
schestowitzBetter Canonical than Red Hat, I guess. Absolute Power corrupts AbsolutelyApr 17 22:53
schestowitzRed Hat would have Hubris had it controlled the desktop the way it already dominated back rooms.Apr 17 22:54
schestowitzTime for nemesis to pay Linux a visit and remind Ubuntu to play FreeApr 17 22:54
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS... Motorola debunks Android STB rumors and nonetheless, Motorola is a big Linux userApr 17 22:55
taconeAndroid has binary metastasis.Apr 17 22:57
schestowitzAnd yet another processor module is all about Linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news...Apr 17 22:57
schestowitztacone: yes, I told LinusApr 17 22:57
taconeand while they'd like to free it completelyApr 17 22:57
taconei found one it's like to stayApr 17 22:57
schestowitzApple fanbois toss dirt at Android todayApr 17 22:57
taconeand may even present binary distribution problemsApr 17 22:57
schestowitzSaying it ain't openApr 17 22:58
tacone(should check the license)Apr 17 22:58
schestowitzSymbianokia does the same thingApr 17 22:58
MinceRwowApr 17 22:58
MinceRlike the jesusPhone was openApr 17 22:58
taconehttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/ea...Apr 17 22:58
schestowitzIf we use Android is our flag-holder, this is TROUBLEApr 17 22:58
taconelook for the updateApr 17 22:58
schestowitztacone: good workApr 17 22:58
schestowitzBTW, use the refs from GarretApr 17 22:58
schestowitzSee what Matthew Garrett wrote about Android, which is hardly what people are led to believe < http://mjg59.livejournal.com... >. There is also work on Trusted Computing, which is quietly being applied to Linux.Apr 17 22:59
schestowitzI wrote about this in BNApr 17 22:59
schestowitzoiaohm told meApr 17 22:59
schestowitzAbout a TC-like mechanismApr 17 22:59
taconei see, that's the real difference from openmokoApr 17 23:01
schestowitzOh!penMokoApr 17 23:02
schestowitzSome AdroidBot is echoing my messages :-SApr 17 23:03
schestowitzGreat film my mom just mailed me: http://www.flixxy.com/game-of-survival.htmApr 17 23:11
schestowitzHigh-def-ishApr 17 23:11
taconeubuntu netbook remix = failApr 17 23:18
schestowitzIt's not out yet AFAIKApr 17 23:19
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taconethe RC is.Apr 17 23:45
amarsh04TPB case was mentioned on radio this morning http://www.abc.net.au/am/ (transcripts/recordings available later)Apr 17 23:46
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schestowitzamarsh04: I can imagine whose side a radio would takeApr 17 23:49
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oiaohmHi everyone.Apr 17 23:57
amarsh04It sounded fair enough schestowitzApr 17 23:58
amarsh04hi oiaohmApr 17 23:58

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