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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 17th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 1:45 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

oiaohm allow torrent to keep on operating for a while without the central tracker. Apr 17 14:02
oiaohm It does not stop it.   The effect is slowing. Apr 17 14:02
MinceR yes, a new peer is slowed so far that he can’t get a single address from the tracker. Apr 17 14:03
MinceR downloads tend to be slow when you don’t know who you can download from. Apr 17 14:03
MinceR but it’s also known as being completely stopped. :> Apr 17 14:04
oiaohm User using a client with client to client interlinking would not be stoped. Apr 17 14:05
oiaohm yes pure torrent client yes stoped. Apr 17 14:05
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oiaohm MinceR: do you recheck with sites you are downloading torrents from for messages about problmes with torrents.  Most people don’t. Apr 17 14:07
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MinceR i don’t Apr 17 14:08
oiaohm Is it possiable to put suspect torrents on different tracker.    So breaking it but allows it to be reconnected to it if you choose to proceed.  Answer is yes. Apr 17 14:09
MinceR but i do virus scan the stuff if it includes executables Apr 17 14:09
MinceR oiaohm: it wouldn’t be the case if you made it mandatory for all trackers to take it down. Apr 17 14:10
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oiaohm Its time MinceR. Apr 17 14:10
oiaohm To get a court order on something by the time you get it you could already have a very large infection. Apr 17 14:11
MinceR (that is, if i intend to run those executables) Apr 17 14:11
oiaohm Under providing care there was a lot of things TPB could have done. Apr 17 14:12
oiaohm Simply choosing not to do anything.   Really is lack of care. Apr 17 14:13
MinceR actually they did a lot of things, just not about malware. :> Apr 17 14:13
oiaohm malware is just something important to do something about. Apr 17 14:14
iwmw how do you imagine them filtering manually every torrent Apr 17 14:15
oiaohm There is only so much protection systems can do.    With secuirty flaws time is a issue. Apr 17 14:15
oiaohm They are many ways to do it iwmw Apr 17 14:16
iwmw yeah, like a bot downloading every torrent and checking it for viruses and stuff Apr 17 14:17
iwmw how much bandwidth is it? Apr 17 14:17
oiaohm One is a set of trusted downloaders when they report respond.  Ok not everything protected.  At an attempt. Apr 17 14:17
oiaohm Monitoring comments. Apr 17 14:17
oiaohm Lot of comments on infected torrents would clearly appear marked as such. Apr 17 14:18
oiaohm So yes no they did not have to download every torrent to be able to respond. Apr 17 14:18
iwmw and what… it would lead to abuses Apr 17 14:19
oiaohm Its like the kernel development tree.  Over time you would have a list of people reporting problems who you could trust not to be lieing. Apr 17 14:20
oiaohm Lieing there reports in future get disreguarded. Apr 17 14:20
iwmw does tpb require registration? Apr 17 14:20
oiaohm For there vpn service yes. Apr 17 14:20
iwmw to post a comment Apr 17 14:21
oiaohm I think so. Apr 17 14:21
oiaohm This is my point there were options open to TPB. Apr 17 14:21
oiaohm Choosing sit back let problems happen makes me hate them. Apr 17 14:22
oiaohm If they hard tried something at least and failed I would have had no problem with them. Apr 17 14:23
iwmw so what will you do when there are fake posts about viruses Apr 17 14:23
iwmw in order to check whether they are fake yo gotta dl and check it for sure Apr 17 14:23
oiaohm Someone has to. Apr 17 14:24
iwmw so it’s dl of every torrent in either case Apr 17 14:24
oiaohm Someone that you trust. Apr 17 14:24
iwmw yeah, a bot Apr 17 14:24
oiaohm That is why setting up something like this without killing self with downlaods takes time. Apr 17 14:25
oiaohm Also why suspect file most likely would be first move tracker to make people aware it suspect. Apr 17 14:25
MinceR oiaohm: then the comments would be flooded with fake reports by the MAFIAA. Apr 17 14:25
oiaohm Then when got a report from someone who over time has proven to be valid then removed. Apr 17 14:26
iwmw in which way he becomes proven? Apr 17 14:26
MinceR trusted users could vote that a given torrent is infected and it could be shown in the header. nothing more needs to be done. Apr 17 14:26
oiaohm Actions. Apr 17 14:26
MinceR just like good/bad torrents now. Apr 17 14:26
iwmw how do you choose trusted users? Apr 17 14:26
MinceR dunno, but they already do, afaik Apr 17 14:27
ushimitsudoki1 oiaohm: you realize you are acting like a problem that the largest web sites on the planet (slashdot, you tube, etc.) wrestle with (user-submitted good vs. user-submitted bad) is some simple problem that TPB are idiots for not solving? Apr 17 14:27
MinceR i’ve seen some icons, but never really cared Apr 17 14:27
iwmw that’s like explaining the sorting algorithm: Apr 17 14:27
schestowitz Yup Apr 17 14:28
iwmw a array of unsorted elements and b will contain a sorted Apr 17 14:28
oiaohm ushimitsudoki1: no system is perfect. Apr 17 14:28
iwmw we just put element by element there and it’s sorted Apr 17 14:28
iwmw idk how it’s done… but they already do it Apr 17 14:28
oiaohm The difference here is once people start downloading a torrent how often do they return to the tracking site. Apr 17 14:29
ushimitsudoki1 oiaohm: so why the “hate”? TPB did implement trusted user icons. How far exactly should they go? Too far and they present the appearance that they are inspecting and sanctioning the uploads – which makes the “search engine” defense awful thin Apr 17 14:29
MinceR iwmw: duh, just call sort() on it ;) Apr 17 14:29
iwmw lol, i know many sorting algorithms Apr 17 14:29
iwmw and prefer to use appropriate rather than lame sort() Apr 17 14:29
oiaohm Note trusted users can also say the reverse ushimitsudoki1 Apr 17 14:30
ushimitsudoki1 what reverse? Apr 17 14:30
oiaohm That the mark of infection is wrong. Apr 17 14:30
iwmw that’s a lame bs Apr 17 14:30
iwmw voting system and stuff Apr 17 14:30
iwmw you either check it yourself or not Apr 17 14:31
iwmw comments are quite enough to be aware Apr 17 14:32
oiaohm Do you the big problem with check it yourself. Apr 17 14:32
oiaohm If something is targeted to avoid the software you are using to check it can get past. Apr 17 14:33
MinceR then write sw that can command multiple engines to check it Apr 17 14:33
iwmw that’s why you will check with diff software Apr 17 14:33
oiaohm There are a large block of torrents that will not be infected and will not be damaged. Apr 17 14:33
MinceR then you check it once and they’ll have to bypass all of them Apr 17 14:33
MinceR as for your “trusted users” idea — how do you know they won’t infiltrate that set? Apr 17 14:33
oiaohm MinceR: Most common thing that gives that way is conflit. Apr 17 14:35
oiaohm Other thing do trust users have to be told they are. Apr 17 14:35
MinceR also note that this takes a lot of effort and it is not the primary purpose of such a site. Apr 17 14:35
ushimitsudoki1 When you have a web site that relies on user-submission and user-moderation, and you want to prevent system-gaming, you have an analogous problem to the situation where the user has encrypted data and the key (DRM). There is no good “solution”. Acting like TPB fails here is ignorance. Apr 17 14:35
MinceR if you’re afraid of malware and can’t handle it, don’t download warez. Apr 17 14:35
iwmw totally agree Apr 17 14:36
oiaohm The sad part is most people who get infected though warez infect people who don’t download warez. Apr 17 14:37
iwmw you shouldn’t kill wolves to feed the sheep Apr 17 14:37
oiaohm They are the wolves. Apr 17 14:37
oiaohm That are killing the sheep. Apr 17 14:37
iwmw no, they are sheeps all Apr 17 14:37
MinceR let’s make them magically care about the computers of the others! Apr 17 14:38
iwmw and those who produce infected stuff are wolves Apr 17 14:38
MinceR oh, wait Apr 17 14:38
MinceR also, let’s make up analogies that make absolutely no sense Apr 17 14:38
*iwmw likes analogies Apr 17 14:38
MinceR iwmw: i demand a car analogy! Apr 17 14:38
MinceR </slashdot> Apr 17 14:39
iwmw i don’t like cars too much Apr 17 14:39
iwmw basically because roads here suck BIG TIME Apr 17 14:39
iwmw you either try to evade the holes in the road or ride by rules and watch at signs Apr 17 14:40
oiaohm Its like you have a supplier of defective breaks made by another maker and you do not expect him to stop or spend selling the defective breaks just because they don’t have a court order MinceR. Apr 17 14:40
oiaohm You asked for a car one MinceR Apr 17 14:41
MinceR this item is whole, therefore it has a defective break Apr 17 14:41
MinceR i need it fixed, i mean broken Apr 17 14:41
oiaohm Yet is sold to you as a working Item same with many others. Apr 17 14:43
oiaohm And you are all at 1 place reporting problem. Apr 17 14:43
oiaohm Should that go without action. Apr 17 14:43
oiaohm It not acceptable in normal business so why is it acceptable just because its online. Apr 17 14:44
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MinceR does TPB sell anything as working items? no they don’t Apr 17 14:47
MinceR if you searched for something on google or yahoo! and found a page that has errors on it, would you think it right to sue google or yahoo! for it? Apr 17 14:48
MinceR would you expect them to remove it from their index? Apr 17 14:48
oiaohm Errors no. Apr 17 14:49
oiaohm Infected ie harmful warning at min.  Removals do happen from there indexs over infections. Apr 17 14:50
oiaohm Google and Yahoo will both act on reports from Anti-virus companies without court orders. Apr 17 14:51
oiaohm Even MS live search will. Apr 17 14:52
trmanco schestowitz, did you’re wiki have any problems? Apr 17 14:52
oiaohm TPB in reguard to viruses and malware they are not the norm for a search site. Apr 17 14:53
schestowitz trmanco: Nope Apr 17 14:53
schestowitz Just a spammer Apr 17 14:53
schestowitz No more problem than Wikipedia’s when someone valdalises an article. Why do you ask? Apr 17 14:53
schestowitz Also, it was part of an experiment from some university as I understand it Apr 17 14:54
trmanco http://www.boycottnovell.com/wiki… Apr 17 14:54
trmanco http://graffiti.cs.brown.edu/1b08ca2a21… Apr 17 14:54
trmanco schestowitz, the troll’s post caught my attention on GG Apr 17 14:55
schestowitz Well, trolls Apr 17 14:56
schestowitz AFAIK, they too could vandalise any Wiki Apr 17 14:56
schestowitz That’s what Wikis do Apr 17 14:56
oiaohm And that is what off line backups are for. Apr 17 14:56
trmanco I’ve read that you should implement a captcha Apr 17 14:57
trmanco yeah, it’s some kind of a university experiment Apr 17 14:58
oiaohm More a experiment how to make a really annoying virus. Apr 17 15:02
oiaohm Stuff like that should always be contained in a lab. Apr 17 15:02
MinceR oiaohm: what if it triggers a browser bug that makes it crash or delete data? :> Apr 17 15:02
trmanco the guy explains that the wiki need a good captcha system Apr 17 15:03
oiaohm http://recaptcha.net Could also be tracking. Apr 17 15:05
schestowitz Parts of this document < http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversio… > appear to have borrowed some observations and quotes from sites like Groklaw, BN, and Comes case, but then again, there’s lots of intersection (and place for reuse). Apr 17 15:05
oiaohm I always hate central point solutions. Apr 17 15:06
oiaohm what happens if recaptcha site gets dos attacked. Apr 17 15:06
iwmw hehe it will be funny Apr 17 15:07
oiaohm Central point equals nice single point of failure. Apr 17 15:07
schestowitz trmanco: we already require registration having been spammed before Apr 17 15:07
schestowitz But the Wiki is hardly public Apr 17 15:07
oiaohm We are getting more and more of them. Apr 17 15:07
oiaohm Like google and yahoo web apis. Apr 17 15:07
schestowitz It’s not mentioned in BN because it’s work in progress Apr 17 15:07
schestowitz I might get help Apr 17 15:07
schestowitz “e’ve already started tracking them down (I enlisted some helpers :o). It’s probably going to take some time, but how vastly annoying would it be to Microsoft’s minions to have that information in one place, for the world to see? Organizing it all will be the toughest part, I think.” Apr 17 15:08
schestowitz Sony-Ericsson calls time on another 2,000 jobs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… > Apr 17 15:15
schestowitz Thanks to the police I feel safer. Police delete London tourists’ photos ‘to prevent terrorism’ < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/16/… > Apr 17 15:17
schestowitz A win for LaTeX: http://everyone.plos.org/2009/03/24/late… Apr 17 15:19
schestowitz http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/0… “…idiotic Pirate Bay ruling – these were links, people, you know, just like Google – there’s a silver lining of sorts.” Apr 17 15:23
schestowitz Google Is Facing Wrath Of Korean Government Over Snub Of Internet Law  < http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/… > Apr 17 15:25
schestowitz Second Life (open source) keeps growing: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/fe… Apr 17 15:26
oiaohm who says google does no good. Apr 17 15:29
*tacone gmail down ? Apr 17 15:29
tacone TPB users sharing files via email. Apr 17 15:30
oiaohm That would create a nice electronic trail. Apr 17 15:31
iwmw tacone, it’s not safe to share files via email nowadays Apr 17 15:34
tacone that was a joke. Apr 17 15:34
tacone http://bash.org/modapp/ Apr 17 15:35
tacone ops Apr 17 15:35
tacone sorry Apr 17 15:35
tacone bad window :) Apr 17 15:35
oiaohm I would not be supprised if some will not be that dumb when TPB is down. Apr 17 15:36
schestowitz Sharing files is OK Apr 17 15:38
schestowitz Like CC-licensed music Apr 17 15:38
schestowitz By E-mail it’s fine too Apr 17 15:38
tacone TPB shuold have filed their appeal before the sentence coming out. Apr 17 15:38
schestowitz Windows zombies’ carbon footprint worse Than millions of cars < http://www.internetnews.com/security/arti… > Apr 17 15:40
schestowitz tacone: and what if the jury’judge were bought? Apr 17 15:41
tacone ? Apr 17 15:41
tacone filing the appeal before the sentence coming out would have just put more relief on the sentence leaking Apr 17 15:41
tacone it probably would have not had any legal value. Apr 17 15:42
schestowitz Nice demo of Lancelot: http://polishlinux.org/kde/lancelo… Apr 17 15:42
schestowitz bbl Apr 17 15:43
tacone bb Apr 17 15:43
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trmanco Microsoft Software – 1 Billion Users per Day, 500 Million Pirates: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microso… Apr 17 17:11
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trmanco http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… Apr 17 17:14
trmanco http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-148135/w… Apr 17 17:16
schestowitz trmanco: Mirosoft LOVES ‘pirates’ Apr 17 17:37
schestowitz It built its business on it Apr 17 17:37
trmanco yeah I know Apr 17 17:37
schestowitz Now it wants blowback, payback Apr 17 17:38
tacone like Adobe. Apr 17 17:38
trmanco só it’s 50 / 50 Apr 17 17:38
schestowitz And it pretends it could be where it is without giveaways Apr 17 17:38
schestowitz BTW, I’ve just told SFLC: “Alan Cox has been a supporter of GPLv3 since the beginning AFAIK (based on two interviews)” Apr 17 17:38
schestowitz I think it’s a dead-end with Linus Apr 17 17:38
schestowitz He won’t let RMS show any sign of control Apr 17 17:38
DaemonFC GPLv3 has some serious problems Apr 17 17:39
tacone couldn’t they be waiting for purpouse Apr 17 17:40
tacone ? Apr 17 17:40
DaemonFC Torvalds is right, he has no interest in controlling what Tivo does as relates to their hardware box as long as he gets back anything they do to the kernel Apr 17 17:40
DaemonFC why should he care what Tivo does to their box? Apr 17 17:40
DaemonFC There’s MythTV, if people care that Tivo is doing naughty things they can use MythTV Apr 17 17:41
schestowitz It’s not about tivo now Apr 17 17:41
schestowitz It’s about patents Apr 17 17:41
tacone sadly GPL3 includes both. Apr 17 17:41
DaemonFC even without the kernel, they can make most of the GNU utilities GPLv3 Apr 17 17:41
DaemonFC a lot of them don’t link to the kernel Apr 17 17:42
DaemonFC anyway, the GPLv3 is weak and ineffective as relates to Novell Apr 17 17:43
schestowitz tacone: too bad, eh? :-) Apr 17 17:43
DaemonFC cause they have a loophole built into it Apr 17 17:43
schestowitz Just for Novell Apr 17 17:43
tacone schestowitz: it’s kind of take or leave Apr 17 17:43
schestowitz It prevented more such deals Apr 17 17:43
tacone mono btw is GPL2 with explicit clause preventing it to be distributed as gpl3. Apr 17 17:43
DaemonFC I don’t think they should have made any exceptions because it still allows someone to be otu there doing it Apr 17 17:44
DaemonFC they jsut gave Novell an advantage over everyone else Apr 17 17:44
DaemonFC cause now they can do whatever they want with Microsoft and such and nobody else can Apr 17 17:44
DaemonFC GPLv3 is like saying “You robbed a bank, now we made a law against robbing banks, but you can do it all you want from now on, but if anyone else robs banks, it’s illegal” Apr 17 17:45
schestowitz Linus gave me a long answer Apr 17 17:46
tacone OT: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/a… Apr 17 17:46
schestowitz tacone: interesting that Mark calls it Free softwar Apr 17 17:47
tacone it is, beside some little binary metastasis :-) Apr 17 17:48
tacone I’ve spoken with folks at Novell, and it doesn’t look like there’s an opportunity to coordinate for the moment. In conversations with Steve McIntyre, the current Debian Project Leader, we’ve identified an interesting opportunity to collaborate. Apr 17 17:48
woofy schestowitz, what was the answer? Apr 17 17:48
schestowitz haven’t read it yet Apr 17 17:48
schestowitz Hold on. Apr 17 17:48
schestowitz I’m just atching up with stugg Apr 17 17:49
DaemonFC unfortunately too many free software projects are religious, and not necessarily about free software. They get so used to smelling their own farts that the process becomes enjoyable and they just stay at home sampling their own odors. Mark Shuttleworth just strikes me like that Apr 17 17:49
schestowitz Got to go to the gym in a moment too Apr 17 17:49
tacone DaemonFC: lol Apr 17 17:49
schestowitz Pheeeeyyy!! “I’ve spoken with folks at Novell,..” Apr 17 17:50
schestowitz Why not speak to Sweaty Steve directly? Apr 17 17:50
woofy steve balmer? Apr 17 17:50
DaemonFC they think that because an idea came from them it’s inherently better than anyone elses, and even if there’s a demand for “Hey, the other guys have some neat stuff too!”, they ignore it Apr 17 17:50
schestowitz woofy: yes Apr 17 17:50
schestowitz DaemonFC: sounds like projection to me. Apr 17 17:51
tacone I don’t think so. Apr 17 17:51
tacone the short release cycle came by gnome afaik. Apr 17 17:52
tacone ubuntu is always released 1 month after gnome. Apr 17 17:52
schestowitz I’ll reply to Linus, but he makes a strong case Apr 17 17:52
schestowitz He hates the FSF/SFLC Apr 17 17:52
DaemonFC Which is why you always have to upgrade to unofficial KDE packages in Kubuntu and those may do all kinds of awful things Apr 17 17:52
DaemonFC but they’re too tempting to resist Apr 17 17:52
DaemonFC cause Ubuntu does not do KDE well Apr 17 17:53
DaemonFC or let me rephrase that, sometimes it comes out OK, but it was never their concern that it did Apr 17 17:53
DaemonFC :) Apr 17 17:53
DaemonFC Well take Adept for example, there’s just never been a good KDE frontend for Debian package management, most people that use Debian or Ubuntu end up installing Synaptic because it’s the only competent frontend to apt Apr 17 17:55
DaemonFC now they’re doing KPackageKit, and the fact that that’s an improvement shows how bad Adept was Apr 17 17:55
DaemonFC I mean, I would have rather seen them just redo Synaptic with QT bindings Apr 17 17:56
DaemonFC I think that would have gone over well Apr 17 17:56
DaemonFC The problem of package management is the visible chunk of wheel re-inventing on Linux. Here it’s obvious that there’s at least two dozen variations on the wheel and every proprietor is trying to reinvent them all at the same time Apr 17 17:58
balzac -_- Apr 17 17:58
DaemonFC KPackageKit is just a Least Common Denominator that manages to crawl out of the FreeDesktop pit Apr 17 17:58
DaemonFC or Packagekit for that matter Apr 17 17:59
DaemonFC It misses advanced features so that it becomes truly as bad with everyone’s packaging backend Apr 17 17:59
woofy i just wanted to install debian… Apr 17 18:05
DaemonFC Any desktop you want as long as it’s GNOME :) Apr 17 18:06
woofy im just a bit tired of mandriva Apr 17 18:06
DaemonFC Python is the next to commit suicide Apr 17 18:07
woofy what’s so bad about py? Apr 17 18:07
DaemonFC “We won’t be maintaining 3.0, it’s just there to shake out ideas for 3.5″ Apr 17 18:07
DaemonFC Everyone will start using 3.0 and we’ll be stuck with it forever Apr 17 18:08
DaemonFC :P Apr 17 18:08
DaemonFC I’m gonna be making a video of calling my senator’s local office Apr 17 18:12
DaemonFC :P Apr 17 18:12
woofy why do you call there? Apr 17 18:13
DaemonFC Employee Free Choice Act Apr 17 18:13
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schestowitz OK, I’ve got to go Apr 17 18:22
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DaemonFC tware Apr 17 18:30
DaemonFC it updated itself and crapped out :P Apr 17 18:30
DaemonFC errr, oops Apr 17 18:30
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woofy twill be funny if someone cracks tpb site and inserts his donation button there Apr 17 18:34
schestowitz Just responded to a long E-mail from Linus, urging him (maybe in vain) to consider GPLv3 Apr 17 18:35
tacone what did linus says in the long mail ? Apr 17 18:35
schestowitz I’ll write about it later Apr 17 18:35
schestowitz I’ve got to go Apr 17 18:36
tacone bb Apr 17 18:36
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trmanco “Don’t worry – we’re from the internets. It’s going to be alright. :-) Apr 17 18:51
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schestowitz trmanco: where from? :-) Apr 17 20:23
trmanco piratebay Apr 17 20:23
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schestowitz Google FUD: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1… Apr 17 20:26
tacone on the homepage :-D Apr 17 20:26
schestowitz Someone says: “Notice how he equates Google to doneky porn and how on bly MS can protect the kids through the use of OPEN standards. It’s the compination of technobabel and abuse that’s the give away” Apr 17 20:26
schestowitz Did you see the Endershit article in Google this week? Apr 17 20:26
schestowitz They attack Google, not just Apple and Linux now Apr 17 20:26
schestowitz They also attack GPLv3 Apr 17 20:26
Balrog URL? Apr 17 20:26
schestowitz The Linux migration to another licence can start *somewhere*; Cox already supports it and RHT too (maybe Intel)… I’m probably just ruining my access to Linus by raising this issue, but he can’t stay on an old licence forever and he knows it Apr 17 20:27
schestowitz Balrog: all sorts os place Apr 17 20:27
Balrog ok. Apr 17 20:27
schestowitz *places Apr 17 20:27
schestowitz I have another one coming Apr 17 20:28
schestowitz Microsoft lawyer (it was  a client of their in Europe) attacks the GPL now Apr 17 20:28
schestowitz And they bullies Matt Asay for riaising it Apr 17 20:28
schestowitz *raising.  http://twitter.com/mjasay/stat… http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-102202… Apr 17 20:28
Balrog Linus will have to move to GPLv3 eventually. those who contribute to the kernel should write in their code that ‘this file is licensed under the GPLv2 OR LATER’ Apr 17 20:28
schestowitz I’ve had no time to write about this because of meetings. I’ll catch up tomorrow Apr 17 20:28
Balrog ok. Apr 17 20:29
schestowitz Is http://comicsdc.blogspot.com/2009/04… Dan DiDio reltaed to Laura Didio by any chance? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&… Apr 17 20:32
schestowitz brb Apr 17 20:32
MinceR hm, apparently gnome-do is using mono, too :/ Apr 17 20:32
tacone apparently ? Apr 17 20:33
tacone miguel icaza declares his team ‘busy at supporting banshee, tomboy, gnome-do’ Apr 17 20:33
tacone (in the linuxoutlaws interview schestowitz cited some day ago) Apr 17 20:34
MinceR well, i just noticed when looking at htop Apr 17 20:34
tacone yes that sucks. and no good alternative exist. Apr 17 20:35
MinceR indeed Apr 17 20:36
MinceR though my desktop is already a bastard hybrid of gnome and kde… Apr 17 20:36
MinceR apparently i can run krunner under gnome Apr 17 20:39
MinceR but it isn’t as good as i had hoped Apr 17 20:39
tacone seems like someone shoot in his own feets. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-… Apr 17 20:39
MinceR gnome-do seems to be more powerful Apr 17 20:41
MinceR i hope the Pirate Party wins the next election — maybe there will be a nice place to move to after all Apr 17 20:42
MinceR in europe Apr 17 20:42
tacone the goal is to have 1 deputy. so not that change. but good nonetheless. Apr 17 20:43
tacone it’s about EU elections, not Swedish. Apr 17 20:43
MinceR oh, i’ve completely misread Apr 17 20:43
tacone that make sense, as EU is quite influent in those matters. Apr 17 20:44
MinceR even 1 deputy means there will be 1 person in the european parliament who has some clue about freedom Apr 17 20:44
tacone right. Apr 17 20:44
tacone and he can make friends :) Apr 17 20:44
MinceR unlike the majority that has to be screamed at to realize that sw patents only make the eu a vassal of the usian megacorps Apr 17 20:44
MinceR Banana Union Apr 17 20:44
tacone lol Apr 17 20:44
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schestowitz South America is moving to Linux Apr 17 20:56
tacone many weak countries are. Apr 17 20:57
schestowitz Maybe DonkeyBallmer will go down south soon and pull another Banana Republic like Nixon or whoever reigned at the time. Apr 17 20:57
tacone they’re not corrupted enough, and cannot throw their money away Apr 17 20:57
schestowitz Microsoft or the other Banana Republic? Apr 17 20:57
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l… Apr 17 20:59
schestowitz Trollticle: “THE RAPID RISE of Russian PC demand over recent years has been fuelled not so much by vodka as by easy access to credit.” http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news… Apr 17 21:01
trmanco wtf “The judge also stated that the usage of BitTorrent at The Pirate Bay is illegal. Rest assured, other torrent sites hosted in Sweden will be keeping a close eye on developments.” Apr 17 21:08
schestowitz Spiegel covered the software patents protests in Germany, sorta: http://www.spiegel.de/internati… Apr 17 21:08
schestowitz         trmanco: “sage of BitTorrent at The Pirate Bay is illegal” Apr 17 21:08
schestowitz Funny. I didn’t know the site used torrent Apr 17 21:08
schestowitz I thought it used port 25 for HTML Apr 17 21:08
trmanco 25 for html? Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz Yes Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz They serve Web pages Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz People just use a protocols Apr 17 21:09
trmanco through port 80 Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz They can try to kill ports, they can’t kill commos Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz trmanco: yes, my bad Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz 25 is mail IIRC Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz Wasn’t it? Apr 17 21:09
trmanco :-P Apr 17 21:09
schestowitz SMTP? Apr 17 21:09
trmanco don’t recall Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz Well, you could use any port for HTML Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz Not default Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz I use 81 on my PC Apr 17 21:10
Balrog yes, port 25 is smtp but they’re moving away from it Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz Why? Apr 17 21:10
trmanco yeah, append site.com:[port] Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz I dread this: Apr 17 21:10
Balrog because of open relays Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz Like Mozilla says GMail makes Thunderbird obsolete Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz Whhich is is nonsense unless stupid universities offshore E-mail Apr 17 21:10
schestowitz They could try to phase out E-mail Apr 17 21:11
schestowitz And create something more centralise they can scan more easily Apr 17 21:11
schestowitz This is outrageous. Watch what software patents are doing even to charities: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Apac… Apr 17 21:13
schestowitz Balrog: they should fight Windows zombies (or Windows), not open relays that just do what they are supposed to Apr 17 21:14
Balrog I know :/ Apr 17 21:15
Balrog here they offshore email :( Apr 17 21:15
schestowitz Adam Williamson defends Ubuntu from advisories this time around: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto… Apr 17 21:17
schestowitz Balrog: they mustn’t Apr 17 21:17
schestowitz Or… Apr 17 21:17
schestowitz They should allow people to out opt Apr 17 21:17
schestowitz They turn young people to customers of a company they collude with Apr 17 21:18
schestowitz Not only Microsoft, assuming they use WIndows and Office and force its use Apr 17 21:18
schestowitz Not to mention OOXML shackles Apr 17 21:18
schestowitz I don’t understand why Sam attacks Ubuntu….. :–( http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… Apr 17 21:18
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Balrog the CIS department runs their own servers. They refuse to give away control. But the main computer people do what they feel like. They give faculty Exchange ActiveSync accounts (without POP or IMAP, apparently, but I can’t be sure) and students gmail Apr 17 21:19
Balrog I can’t tell them what to do :X Apr 17 21:20
schestowitz WOT? Byfield now writes for LinuxMag, but he’s talking badly about a successful contest: http://www.heraldbanner.com/local/… Apr 17 21:22
schestowitz He said he stopped advocating Apr 17 21:22
schestowitz But what’s he on about? The contest made lots of good Linux adverts Apr 17 21:23
tacone where’s the link of sam’s ? Apr 17 21:23
tacone nevermind, found Apr 17 21:24
schestowitz More garbage (link is a rebuttal to) from the provocative writers: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… Apr 17 21:24
schestowitz It’s silly what he did Apr 17 21:25
schestowitz And he once wrote to me complainting about my headline Apr 17 21:25
schestowitz Specifically because of this headline: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/… Apr 17 21:25
schestowitz Some SUSEr from identica got upset by a comment of mine about SUSE Apr 17 21:27
schestowitz They tend to forget that both suse and opensuse are novell trademarks (and projects likewise) Apr 17 21:28
schestowitz SUSE is dying, slowly Apr 17 21:28
schestowitz The amount of volunteers I find in opensuse declines Apr 17 21:28
schestowitz Even Germans are moving to Debian/buntu Apr 17 21:28
schestowitz An age of dying IP and…. the cryptic process of ACTA (like MAFTA) tells you how afraid they are now. Like MS and FAT… Apr 17 21:30
tacone “Who’s that fourth chap we don’t know?” lol Apr 17 21:30
schestowitz Happy hacking: Administration to release Bush-era interrogation memos < http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS… > Apr 17 21:32
schestowitz tacone: I wrote it in a hurry Apr 17 21:32
schestowitz Even using IRC Apr 17 21:32
schestowitz And it annoyed a lot of people Apr 17 21:32
tacone very nice :) Apr 17 21:32
schestowitz EnterpriseBunutu.. IP Edition Apr 17 21:33
tacone BananaBuntu Apr 17 21:33
tacone i like Ubuntu but sam is not that wrong, btw. Apr 17 21:33
schestowitz Well, I know… but he puts it poorly Apr 17 21:34
schestowitz Because it’s seen as aggravation Apr 17 21:34
schestowitz Like my hastily chosen headline Apr 17 21:34
schestowitz I gave Shattleworth a lot of trouble, not because of I wanted to: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os… Apr 17 21:34
schestowitz In general, it’s nice of him to respond to things I write. He’s now saying “Free software” :-) :-) Apr 17 21:35
tacone i remember sabdfl blogging about the ms codecs thing. Apr 17 21:35
schestowitz When you see a girl’s name adding you to twitter, then  it’s often a bot, based on experience: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… Apr 17 21:37
schestowitz sabdfl? Apr 17 21:37
tacone sabdfl = shuttleworth nick. Apr 17 21:38
schestowitz How will cable companies stop this? http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/… Thinner ‘pines’? Apr 17 21:39
schestowitz Does it have a meaning this abbr? Apr 17 21:39
schestowitz hehe. http://www.blogicalthoughts.co… Apr 17 21:40
schestowitz Google offers free music downloads in China < http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS… > Hard competition for the MAFIAA. Apr 17 21:42
schestowitz Is it NSA or is it SA? “NSA Broke New Eavesdropping Law” < http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok… > Apr 17 21:43
schestowitz Can a customer return the Kindle to the shop claiming it is defective (by design)? http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/n… Apr 17 21:46
schestowitz Twitter’s ‘special’ friend gets award for malicious hacking: Twitter worm author gets security job < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… > Apr 17 21:53
tacone facebook governance: http://apps.facebook.com/fbsitevote… Apr 17 22:07
schestowitz For a moment there I thought it was about the government governing this thing, which it is in the sense that it’s spying tool Apr 17 22:10
tacone rumors about fbi using it :) brr Apr 17 22:11
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schestowitz Troll headline: Red Hat pulls a Microsoft, goes after the channel < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1… > Apr 17 22:18
schestowitz tacone: not rumour, true, AFAIK Apr 17 22:18
schestowitz The British police IIRC uses it Apr 17 22:18
schestowitz Why investigate how people relate to one another when it’s all out there online Apr 17 22:18
schestowitz Once again that Black F*Duck software Microsoft offshoot is used as a spokesman for FOSS (Black Duck is proprietary): http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-sou… Apr 17 22:20
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tacone do they have admin access ? Apr 17 22:24
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PetoKraus hmm Apr 17 22:29
PetoKraus the TPB thing is sad Apr 17 22:29
PetoKraus very very very sad Apr 17 22:29
schestowitz tacone: you use WordPress. This site < http://www.cmswire.com/cms/web-cms… > says you should bow to DeIcaKa. Apr 17 22:30
tacone Mark Shuttleworth – The founder of Canonical, Ltd., and patron of Ubuntu and KDE Apr 17 22:30
schestowitz He’s all right Apr 17 22:31
schestowitz I like Mark Shuttleworth Apr 17 22:31
tacone kde ? Apr 17 22:31
schestowitz tacone: yes Apr 17 22:31
schestowitz tacone: notice how that same site puts Microsoft at top of Linux contribs IIRC Apr 17 22:32
schestowitz If it’s not idiotic trolling, I don’t know what is Apr 17 22:32
tacone ignorance ? Apr 17 22:32
schestowitz And many people miss the point that interoperability is codeword for patents, it’s not standards. Apr 17 22:32
schestowitz tacone: I dunno Apr 17 22:32
schestowitz That site seemingly cropped up out of nowhere. Apr 17 22:33
schestowitz But I can see the logic Apr 17 22:33
schestowitz The page says “people who contributed the most to open source” (IIRC) Apr 17 22:33
schestowitz Now, if Microsoft is a top contributor, then de IcaKa maybe fits in there. Apr 17 22:34
tacone seems just the yet another wanna-be-a-rich-blogger to me Apr 17 22:34
schestowitz There are no rich blogegrs Apr 17 22:34
schestowitz There are those who are poor bloggers and those who are faking it Apr 17 22:34
schestowitz And those who like Om Malik AstroTurf for Microsoft Apr 17 22:35
schestowitz []”People-ready” fiasco] Apr 17 22:35
schestowitz Michael Larabel gets lots of schwag — h/w to review Apr 17 22:35
schestowitz I wonder if eh auctions it on eBay or something. Apr 17 22:35
schestowitz He told me he’s got heaps of spare h/w around his house Apr 17 22:35
schestowitz This chap, http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-… (Savio Rodrigues), wants to turn FOSS to proprietary money machine. I don’t get his mental approach to it, but then again he works for IBM, so — ha! Apr 17 22:38
schestowitz Aw God.. Slahshdot entertains an Apple+MSFT shareholder who trolls FOSS: http://news.slashdot.org/article… Apr 17 22:39
schestowitz So much coverage for Ubuntu RC, but my beloved  Mandriva gets no media attention for RC2 :-( Apr 17 22:46
tacone well Apr 17 22:47
tacone ubuntu catches all attention. Apr 17 22:47
tacone we’re even lucky in that. it may be fedora, or suse. Apr 17 22:47
schestowitz http://www.embedded.com/products/… <- this is for  Symbian, a software patent lobbyists from a DRM-loving and Ogg-hating company Apr 17 22:52
schestowitz Better Canonical than Red Hat, I guess. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely Apr 17 22:53
schestowitz Red Hat would have Hubris had it controlled the desktop the way it already dominated back rooms. Apr 17 22:54
schestowitz Time for nemesis to pay Linux a visit and remind Ubuntu to play Free Apr 17 22:54
schestowitz http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS… Motorola debunks Android STB rumors and nonetheless, Motorola is a big Linux user Apr 17 22:55
tacone Android has binary metastasis. Apr 17 22:57
schestowitz And yet another processor module is all about Linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news… Apr 17 22:57
schestowitz tacone: yes, I told Linus Apr 17 22:57
tacone and while they’d like to free it completely Apr 17 22:57
tacone i found one it’s like to stay Apr 17 22:57
schestowitz Apple fanbois toss dirt at Android today Apr 17 22:57
tacone and may even present binary distribution problems Apr 17 22:57
schestowitz Saying it ain’t open Apr 17 22:58
tacone (should check the license) Apr 17 22:58
schestowitz Symbianokia does the same thing Apr 17 22:58
MinceR wow Apr 17 22:58
MinceR like the jesusPhone was open Apr 17 22:58
tacone http://www.stefanoforenza.com/ea… Apr 17 22:58
schestowitz If we use Android is our flag-holder, this is TROUBLE Apr 17 22:58
tacone look for the update Apr 17 22:58
schestowitz tacone: good work Apr 17 22:58
schestowitz BTW, use the refs from Garret Apr 17 22:58
schestowitz See what Matthew Garrett wrote about Android, which is hardly what people are led to believe < http://mjg59.livejournal.com… >. There is also work on Trusted Computing, which is quietly being applied to Linux. Apr 17 22:59
schestowitz I wrote about this in BN Apr 17 22:59
schestowitz oiaohm told me Apr 17 22:59
schestowitz About a TC-like mechanism Apr 17 22:59
tacone i see, that’s the real difference from openmoko Apr 17 23:01
schestowitz Oh!penMoko Apr 17 23:02
schestowitz Some AdroidBot is echoing my messages :-S Apr 17 23:03
schestowitz Great film my mom just mailed me: http://www.flixxy.com/game-of-survival.htm Apr 17 23:11
schestowitz High-def-ish Apr 17 23:11
tacone ubuntu netbook remix = fail Apr 17 23:18
schestowitz It’s not out yet AFAIK Apr 17 23:19
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tacone the RC is. Apr 17 23:45
amarsh04 TPB case was mentioned on radio this morning http://www.abc.net.au/am/ (transcripts/recordings available later) Apr 17 23:46
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schestowitz amarsh04: I can imagine whose side a radio would take Apr 17 23:49
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*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 17 23:56
oiaohm Hi everyone. Apr 17 23:57
amarsh04 It sounded fair enough schestowitz Apr 17 23:58
amarsh04 hi oiaohm Apr 17 23:58
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