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Why Mono (and Moonlight) is Microsoft’s Embrace

Posted in ECMA, Microsoft, Mono, Patents, Ubuntu, Windows at 4:04 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

[Updated: Quote in post corrected (partly omitted/crossed out) because Banshee does not depend on Windows Forms.]

Microsoft Moonlight

Microsoft mono Embrace extend extinguish

Summary: Boycott Novell contributors explain why Mono and Moonlight are real risks

Microsoft is trying to embrace, extend, and extinguish GNU/Linux, largely with the help of Novell. Moonlight is already called "Microsoft Moonlight" in the Novell/Microsoft Web site and one reader wrote to say: “Here is one more proof than Microsoft is backing Moonlight. Go to http://silverlight.live.com/. If you connect from Linux O/S, it will offer you to install Silverlight, click install, you will be redirected to Moonlight page.”

“Mono fans are meanwhile censoring opposers of Mono over in Ubuntu.”Mono fans are meanwhile censoring opposers of Mono over in Ubuntu. Sometimes it's Novell employees and some of those who are responsible (not Novell employees) are writing about proprietary computer games (yes, Windows) at the moment. Those very same people are also pushing hard to put Novell's own Banshee inside Ubuntu, by default, at the expense of other media players.

DaemonFC writes: “If Ubuntu uses Banshee by default, they’ll have to ship Windows Forms/System Forms, so unless they have a Microsoft deal in the works, I don’t know how they’d pull this off. Up til now Ubuntu only ships the ECMA standard parts of Mono. Windows Forms is not part of the standard, so only Novell has permission to distribute that. [...] Well, like I said, if they signed an agreement with Microsoft like Novell has, it would be legal, otherwise they’re opening themselves up to be sued. Microsoft doesn’t want to sue, they want to keep pointing at things like this and saying “Nyaaaah!” when companies are considering Linux.”

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  1. Matt Enright said,

    June 8, 2009 at 5:04 am


    I would love to hear more about how including Banshee by default will require Ubuntu to ship with copies of libraries it doesn’t use

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I’ve just informed DaemonFC of his mistake. Still, Mono is a patent issue with or without Windows Forms.

    Matt Enright Reply:

    Thanks for that, but have you corrected the post to remove the paragraph of blatant falsehood as well?
    At the risk of painting myself as a “troll” or “shill”, a real “journalist” checks facts and sources _before_ publishing.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I’ve crossed out the incorrect bits from DaemonFC.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    I notice that you are still using part of his argument, which is entirely based on the assumption that Banshee uses Windows.Forms.

    Windows Forms is not part of the standard, so only Novell has permission to distribute that.

    Since Banshee DOES NOT depend on Windows.Forms, that entire statement should be X’d out.

    twitter Reply:

    BN is a lot better at fact checking than most so called new sites. While everyone else swallows M$ press releases whole, Roy has been a good investigator. Great examples are his exposure of Net Application statistics, the destruction of EEE PC through manipulation of ASUS and Xandros. In fact, Roy has run a lot of good stories about M$ manipulation of the tech press. He gets his information from tireless research and publication of Comes vrs M$ court documents that the ordinary press ignored. Roy’s research and ability to put the pieces together are why we are all here.

    Well, it’s the reason most of us are here. The DeamonFC troll is an interesting case in itself. He appeared with videos and a blog complaining about poor service from M$ and other M$ related OEM vendors to gain trust. Since, he’s steadily devolved to feeding the site nonsense, posting screen shots of his Vista computer, and complaining that Ubuntu is the worst thing to ever happen to computing. He’s generally rude and full of obscenities, but last night he really shined as he and a few other nyms basically admitted they are here to troll and disrupt. The only real question left about DaemonFC is if he’s getting his kicks as part of some kind of troll organization or sponsored by M$. The lengths M$ goes to manipulate the press and bully the world are truly outstanding.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    If you bother to read what DaemonFC stated in IRC on the 7th (see Roy’s logs), you’d see the following:

    DaemonFC says: right now, those libraries [Windows.Forms] are not included with the system Jun 07 19:22
    DaemonFC says: so the discs have nothing illegal to distribute on them

    As he noted a few lines up from there, Ubuntu already distributes Mono for Tomboy & F-Spot. His concern was that Banshee required Windows.Forms (it doesn’t) which would force Ubuntu to add Windows.Forms to the CD (it doesn’t).

    Since Windows.Forms is not needed, there is no problem.

    Sabayon User (Sabayon == Gentoo, kthx) Reply:

    He’s generally rude and full of obscenities, but last night he really shined as he and a few other nyms basically admitted they are here to troll and disrupt.

    Ha, ha.

    twitter Reply:

    Big laugh indeed. The only thing you have against me is that I tried to hide from your abuse. The scope and persistence of M$ stalking is truly amazing. M$’s reputation and fate are sealed.

    I’m not sure which is worse. That I would have to go to such lengths to avoid your censorship and abuse or that you have wasted so much time, energy and money to be sure that I can’t. Really, little old me. Here’s a journal from 2004 where I announced my intention to create new accounts to get away from your abuse. It took me a few years to bother, I only did when your ability to game Slashdot was complete. You idiots lose both ways though. Did you really track me down from the millions of Slashdot users? I won’t give you the satisfaction of a confirmation or denial, but I continue to laugh at your failed efforts. All along, Slashdot regularly published my research and M$ has continued to flunk out in the market place. If anything, your persistent abuse pushed me to dig deeper, and publish ever more detailed and irrefutable evidence of M$’s criminality and incompetence. As Vista is M$’s biggest failure, the Vista Failure Log is one of my favorite research projects. I would never have bothered to write such a thing if it were not for nearly a decade of M$ crapping on my favorite news site and calling me a “cock gobbler”. Really, M$ took a whole generation of free software users and turned them into people who hate your company with a well reasoned passion. The epic troll has been an epic blunder. The sooner M$ fires each and every one of you, the better off everyone will be.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Microsoft ‘thrives’ in a rich history of harassing critics and opposition.

  2. aeshna23 said,

    June 8, 2009 at 8:33 am


    I’d suggest just removing this post, because it was inaccurate. Or maybe just put an explanation of the error before the post, because as the post is now, it’s hard to understand what’s going on until you read the comments.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It’s not so inaccurate at all. Mono is a patent liability; Mono+Windows Forms is an even bigger patent liability. The mistake here was in the words of a reader, who claimed Banshee used Windows Forms in addition to just Mono.

    We wrote about this before.

  3. eet said,

    June 8, 2009 at 4:38 pm


    Banshee uses Mono; big news. Crap as usual on this blog.

  4. Pedant said,

    June 8, 2009 at 5:23 pm


    Umm. You do know that you can’t patent an API, right?

    You do realize that just because an API is named in an interoperable fashion, that doesn’t mean it infringes.

    You might want to take four years off of your life and, you know, go to law school, or something.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Umm. You do know that you can’t patent an API, right?


    Jose wrote an article to explain this.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    And Jose is wrong.

    Jose_X Reply:

    Good answer.

    Here is my answer.

    “And Dan is wrong.”


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