EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

07.16.09

Confirmed: Novell Puts Mono (and Moonlight) at Centre of the GNU/Linux Desktop

Posted in Debian, GNU/Linux, Java, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, Search at 4:57 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

“We could refresh the look and feel of the entire desktop with Moonlight”

Miguel de Icaza

Summary: Another new roundup of Mono news

YESTERDAY we wrote about Moonlight and Mono-based applications getting more tightly integrated. We now see it confirmed by Novell employees Miguel de Icaza and Jonathan Pobst [1 2], so our suspicions were correct from the very start. This is all part of Microsoft’s ambition to fill the Web with Silver Lie content and the desktop with .NET/WPF, which in turn imposes a patent tax on GNU/Linux and makes a poorer experience for GNU/Linux users. From ITPro news:

The first version of Silverlight was launched in April 2007, while version 2 arrived in 2008. It runs on Windows and Mac – and even Linux. The latter is developed by Novell in conjunction with Microsoft, a project known as Moonlight.

“[I]n conjunction with Microsoft,” says this article, but the Microsoft/Novell Web site calls it “Microsoft Moonlight”. It serves Microsoft’s interests.

Microsoft’s Anti-Java

In the blog post where Mini Microsoft suggests laying off 15k employees we also find this comment which reminds us why it’s good that Bing is dying. Microsoft uses Bing to smear .NET’s (and Mono’s) main competitor, Java. From the commenter:

Regarding Bing, I believe there are untrustworthy behaviours under the hood, specifically black list result filters. Try this searching for “transferhandler.export to clipboard swing”. Google finds about 100 results all related to Java. Bing finds exactly two results. One is my comment on this subject elsewhere and the other is in French. How can it be possible without deletion of “things Java” ?

This is not surprising because Microsoft applies the same type of treatment to all major competitors of Microsoft, GNU/Linux included. See our previous posts on the subject, e.g.:

Attacks on Stallman

For the past fortnight or so (shortly after Stallman’s official statement on Mono and C#), Stallman has come under attack from many directions, usually from defenders of Mono or users of Mono (including Canonical employees). He is still not impressed by Microsoft’s “Community Promise” (CP) [1, 2, 3] and this makes him no friends. Stefano Forenza wrote about these attacks on Stallman only to be called “misguided” by Caonical’s CTO.

The first meme being directed to Richard Stallman for citing ‘eMacs virgins’ in a speech and the other one only gods knows whom.

While the latter is just is yet another generalist campaign (like the infamous “hey, even double click is patented!”) the first is a frontal attack to Richard Stallman as a person: knives coming out all of a sudden.

Even the Canonical CTO blogged about it.

While the video isn’t available yet, I have big doubts there is something even remotely offensive in such Stallman talk. It’s very easy to take feminism as an excuse, as many people (not just girls) will jump in no-matter-what without even knowing what it’s being talked about.

The new method in place seems to be that if you support Stallman and support his stance on Mono, then you’re also a chauvinist. It’s not said explicitly, but it is being implied that to be associated with Stallman is also to accept his sometimes-tactless humour/modest proposals.

Sam Varghese correctly points out that Mono’s most vocal defender inside Debian is himself quite chauvinistic. That person is Josselin Mouette.

Mouette, it may be recalled, is the developer who had posted what were considered sexist posts to the Debian project mailing list meant for important announcements for developers.

(Mono is an open source implementation of parts of Microsoft’s .NET development environment; many sections of the FOSS community fear that Mono may prove to be a patent trap down the line as .NET is totally Microsoft technology. Recent statements have done little to dispel this impression.)

I asked the Debian leader Steve McIntyre a few queries about the Mono change and he, as always, sent back straightforward replies. McIntyre, I may add, has always been open and upfront in dealing with iTWire.

But after Free Software Foundation chief Richard Stallman called the Debian move risky – he based the statement on the inference that a decision on including Mono in the Debian default install had already been taken – Debian spokesman Alexander Reichle-Schmehl decided that the project had to speak up and did so by trying to explain things through a post on his blog.

For those who have not been following the whole Mono kerkuffle (a lot has happened recently), here is an excellent summary, which concludes thusly:

Well there are issues around Mono, including patents. This means that some people, myself included now refuse to use it. Those that are pro-mono don’t seem to understand exactly why everyone isn’t shouting hosannas over their projects. Indeed one of them classified Tomboy as ‘An Exciting Program’, which stunned me. Tomboy? Exciting? I didn’t think so.

It is “exciting” for Microsoft, that’s for sure. Its APIs spread to the competitors’ platforms, which makes Microsoft more powerful. It does not bother Novell.

“Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand.”

Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO

“[The partnership with Microsoft is] going very well insofar as we originally agreed to co-operate on three distinct projects and now we’re working on nine projects and there’s a good list of 19 other projects that we plan to co-operate on.”

Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

12 Comments

  1. Matt Zimmerman said,

    July 16, 2009 at 6:44 am

    Gravatar

    You’re conflating two distinct issues here: there are some people who disagree with Richard’s position on Mono, and some who object to his making a sexist joke during his presentation. The two are not related, but for some reason, some people (such as yourself and Stefano) seem to be getting them confused.

    Everyone has a right to their view on whether Mono is a good technology. There are differing opinions over whether it is a good idea to adopt it in light of the questions around its intellectual property. However, sexism is an issue entirely distinct from either of these, and is only related to Mono incidentally through the coincidence of RMS’ speech at GCDS.

    BroWren Reply:

    I don’t think Roy’s the one doing the tying together there. He’s simply pointing out the fact that this is the new line of attack for the pro-mono camp.

    It’s a pretty typical political-style attempt to discredit RMS, is what he’s saying.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Yes, they ride the wave, so to speak, opportunistically.

    Matt Zimmerman Reply:

    As one of the people named in this blog post, I have already stated that RMS’ position on Mono doesn’t matter to me at all.

    Various other people have commented on RMS’ behavior who have no particular concern with his position on Mono, including (unsurprisingly) women.

    http://mjg59.livejournal.com/113408.html
    http://chani.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/rms-emacs-virgins/

    For my part, I am less interested in RMS’ behavior in this specific instance (which is sadly typical in the community) than in the pattern of backlash against the criticism, including attempts to discredit it as being Mono-related.

    Mono is a trivial concern, compared to the way that women are treated in our community, and yet Mono is seen to be so important that it must be the “real agenda” rather than sexism. This seems telling indeed.

    woods Reply:

    Just as a note for people too tired to click links, the above link by Mr. Garrett (mjg95) is good because it contains a transcript and youtube-link of a previous iteration of RMS’s presentation.

    Chani’s comment actually highlights what I’ve been wondering; Don’t people know of catholicism anymore? (or Google for that matter: 390 000 links to ‘cult of virgin mary’)

    Personally, my immediate reaction was to see RMS parodying christianity but if people say I’m too dense to see the sexism beneath, fine.

  2. eet said,

    July 16, 2009 at 7:02 am

    Gravatar

    >Microsoft’s ambition to fill the Web with Silver Lie content and the desktop >with .NET/WPF, which in turn imposes a patent tax on GNU/Linux

    >Bing is dying

    What planet do you live on ATM? You been smoking something weird?

  3. André said,

    July 16, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Gravatar

    Bing is not dying.

    Even his closest allies and supporters criticise RMS very openly.

    But: The sexism argument and flame war sounded to me like a moronic joke of Schlesinger. I can’t believe he was honest about that. And if he was, then he has to understand that by all European standards of interpretation the problem is him, and his perception.

  4. Roy Schestowitz said,

    July 16, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Gravatar

    Bing is not dying.

    Data, please.

  5. woods said,

    July 17, 2009 at 1:35 am

    Gravatar

    I wonder if this this whole debacle will prove to be a watershed that makes or breaks the FLOSS-community.

    Either we’ll have a future with a community divided (Free against Mono (almost like back to the ‘good’ old bad times Free/Open-division…) or a community that has gotten its act together, stands on its own two feet and rejects all attempts to spread discord.

    Ajay Reply:

    why is this a test for any community? Some distro’s may include Mono by default, and conscious users will either uninstall it or move away from the distro.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Some distro’s may include Mono by default, and conscious users will either uninstall it or move away from the distro.

    To an extent, that’s already happening.

    woods Reply:

    True.

    But *suppose* for example that all the major (GNOME-using) distributions embrace Mono (kudos to Fedora which seems to be shying away from Mono making this scenario entirely hypothetical), replacing common apps with Mono-based ones (as its use spreads), maybe even tying Mono to OpenOffice.

    Where will you move away? What will you use if removing Mono in the worst case removed your whole desktop?

    So far the answer of course would be a KDE-using major distro with KOffice or Google Docs (of course there are plenty of good minor non-derivative distros but while those may be fine for personal use they may be a tougher sell for corporations/governments)

    So there’s little danger, per se.

    My (mostly rhetorical) question was, what kind of a community will we be left with?

    One with mostly private freedom-loving users using minor free distros with major ones using Mono, paying (hypothetically!) license-money to MS and the same going for businesses trying to earn a profit while using Linux (assuming development is done w/ Mono)

    Or one where only Novell is trying to pedle an increasingly Mono-based distro, whereas all the others (major and minor) have moved away from Mono (and Portable .NET just to be on the safe side)

    Most probably this current ‘tug of war’ will continue until MS either gives an all-out, all-covering, written, legal, etc. promise not sue…or just starts suing.

    Mostly I was just wondering aloud, remembering the OSS/FSS-split in the late 90′s, early 00′s (which *seems* to be doing better these days)

What Else is New


  1. Links 28/8/2016: Q4OS 1.6, ConnochaetOS 14.2

    Links for the day



  2. The United States Has Gotten Over Software Patents

    A roundup of new articles about software patents in the United States, 2 years into the post-Alice era (the US Supreme Court deeming patents on software too abstract to have merit)



  3. More Lies From President Benoît Battistelli and the EPO Crisis Which Continues to Deepen

    The European Patent Office (EPO), collectively speaking, is still wrestling with a Battistelli infiltration (a circle of high-level managers) which habitually lies and viciously attacks those who dare counter these lies



  4. Links 27/8/2016: Torvalds and GPL, “DOD Must Embrace Open-Source Software”

    Links for the day



  5. Links 26/8/2016: Maru OS Resurfaces, Android More Reliable Than 'i' Things, PC-BSD Becomes TrueOS

    Links for the day



  6. Good Job, David Kappos, Says the 'Boss' (IBM)

    Responses to the latest call against Alice (eliminator of many software patents), courtesy of the man from IBM (still paid by IBM) who was responsible for the policy that blindly approved a lot of software patents in the US



  7. Being for Patent Quality or Against Patenting Excess Does Not Make You Anti-Patents

    Like IAM, which tries to portray sceptics and critics of software patents as "anti-patents", IP Watchdog (or Watchtroll as we call it) is 'trolling' the Electronic Frontier Foundation, simply because it expressed an opinion that patent maximalists cannot tolerate



  8. Erosion of Patent Quality Enables Patent Extortion With Large Portfolios of Low Validity Rate

    Revisiting the EPO's vision of poor patent examination and the effect of discriminatory granting practices, favouring patent bullies such as Microsoft (which actively attacks Linux using low-quality and usually pure software patents)



  9. The EPO's Francesco Zaccà Presenting in Turin Alongside Patent Trolls (Like the Patent Mafia Sisvel) and Lobbyists/Front Groups for Software Patents, UPC

    Benjamin Henrion (FFII) on seeing the EPO alongside patent trolls and other nefarious actors, doing what they do best, which is undermining public interests and harming patent quality



  10. The EPO, USPTO, and Patent Microcosm Peddle Myths About Patents in Public Universities and Research

    Tackling some of the commonly-spread myths about patents as "saving lives" and "promoting research" (in practice leading to the death of poor people and promoting trolls)



  11. Large Corporations' Lobbyist David Kappos Disgraces Former Employer USPTO by Meddling in Their Affairs on Software Patents, Downplaying the Supreme Court

    The latest lobbying from David Kappos, who blatantly exploits his connections in patent circles to promote software patents and work towards their resurgence after Alice v CLS Bank



  12. Journal of Intellectual Property Law and Practice Calls the European Patent Office “Rotten”, Other Sources Scrutinise Recent Moves

    The patent office which was once known for being the best bar none is rotting under the Frenchman Benoît Battistelli, who made himself and his friends the main clients of the Office



  13. PTAB Emerges as Hero of USPTO Because Quality of Patents Improves, Software Patents Are Effectively Dead (or Dying Once Reassessed)

    With help from the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) -- not just patent courts -- software patents drop like flies by the thousands



  14. Creative Technology, Now Operating in 'Patent Troll' Mode, Shot Down by the ITC; Jawbone Too Shot Down

    Some good news from the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), which may have put an end to Creative's new war on Android (using old patents)



  15. Corporate Media in India Misrepresents Startups to Push for Software Patents

    A parade of misinformation as seen in Indian (but English-speaking) press this week as questions about patentability of software resurface



  16. Links 25/8/2016: Linux Turns 25, NetworkManager Turns 1.4

    Links for the day



  17. Links 24/8/2016: More From LinuxCon, Uganda Wants FOSS

    Links for the day



  18. Links 23/8/2016: GNOME 3.22 Beta, Android 7.0 Nougat

    Links for the day



  19. The Linux Foundation Gives Microsoft (Paid-for) Keynote Position While Microsoft Extorts (With Patents) Lenovo and Motorola Over Linux Use

    This morning's reminder that Nadella is just another Ballmer (with a different face); Motorola and Lenovo surrender to Microsoft's patent demands and will soon put Microsoft spyware/malware on their Linux-powered products to avert costly legal battles



  20. Not Just President Battistelli: EPO Vice-Presidents Are Still Intentionally Misrepresenting EPO Staff

    Evidence serving to show that EPO Vice-Presidents are still intentionally misrepresenting EPO staff representatives and misleading everyone in order to defend Battistelli



  21. Battistelli the Liar Causes a Climate of Confrontation in French Politics, Lies About Patent Quality (Among Many Other Things)

    Battistelli's lies are coming under increased scrutiny inside and outside the European Patent Office (EPO), where patent quality has been abandoned in order to artificially elevate figures



  22. The Collapse of Software Patents and Patent Law Firms Trying to “Overcome” Alice

    The United States continues its gradual crackdown on software patents (which are viewed as abstract and thus unpatentable), whereas in Europe things are murkier than ever



  23. Apple's Patent Wars Against Android/Linux Make Patent Trolls Stronger

    Apple's insistence that designs should be patentable could prove to be collectively expensive, as patent trolls would then use a possible SCOTUS nod to launch litigation campaigns



  24. Links 22/8/2016: Linux 4.8 RC3, Linux Mint 18 “Sarah” KDE Beta

    Links for the day



  25. Links 21/8/2016: Apple and Microsoft Down, Systemd Spreading to Mount

    Links for the day



  26. Links 20/8/2016: Android Domination, FSFE summit 2016

    Links for the day



  27. Patents Roundup: Trolls Dominate Litigation, PTAB Crushes Patents, Patent Box Regime Persists, and OIN Explains Itself

    Another roundup of patent news from around the Web with special focus on software patenting



  28. The Cost/Toll of the 'New' EPO and Where All That Money Goes or Comes From

    The European Patent Office has become a servant of the rich and powerful (including large foreign corporations) and even its own employees now pay the price associated with misguided new policies (or 'reforms' as Battistelli habitually refers to these)



  29. Links 19/8/2016: Linux Mint With KDE, Linux Foundation's PNDA

    Links for the day



  30. The End of an Era at the USPTO as Battistelli-Like (EPO) Granting Policies Are Over

    The United States is seeing the potency of patents -- especially software patents (which make up much of the country's troll cases) -- challenged by courts and by the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB)


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts