EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

11.19.09

Can’t Trust Microsoft with Code, So Why is Fedora 12 Mono and Winforms Dependent?

Posted in ECMA, GNOME, GNU/Linux, Kernel, Microsoft, Novell, Patents, Red Hat at 6:57 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Bug eyes

Summary: Fedora 12 includes Microsoft/Novell software that falls outside the ECMA standard, despite the fact that such code is problematic

MICROSOFT APOLOGISM is a subject that we wrote about yesterday and will revisit later today. Regarding Matt Asay’s “Apache: ‘No jerks allowed’,” a reader tells us: “Matt seems to have a self-contradictory summary. Which is it? Microsoft is part of Apache or no jerks allowed in Apache?

As a reminder about Microsoft and Apache, see [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18].

The tail bit of the article seems to neglect the Apache perspective. It is, or at least was, about the Apache Foundation and its projects. What about the quality of Apache? What about the sustainability of Apache? Those are important.

“Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open. Microsoft did a hit and run on him, with his own help.”
      –Anonymous
To look to another project, the Linux kernel, we see what can go wrong if a project lets naive people let jerks walk all over them. Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open.

“Microsoft did a hit and run on him,” argues our reader, “with his own help.” We wrote about this right here.

Our anonymous reader concludes as follows: “The assertion that code should matter, if taken at face value, should also then take into consideration the history of coding and engineering quality coming out of Redmond. Or should it? Maybe there is only One Microsoft Way for all projects and code quality should be a thing of the past.

The bottom line is that Microsoft code cannot be trusted because it only serves Microsoft shareholders, to whom GNU/Linux and Free software are not acceptable, as they are antithetical. Red Hat is making a mistake right now because it follows the footsteps of OpenSUSE 11.2 by becoming dependent on Winforms. As the following new post emphasises:

The Fedora 12 Constantine GNOME Live CD is Mono free, but installing GNOME from the DVD pulls in not only Mono itself, but also support for Windows.Forms (mono-winforms), which is outside the ECMA standard (and not covered under Microsoft’s horribly inadequate Community Promise).

While Constantine no longer includes Tomboy, it does still include F-Spot which is a .NET application.

Mono was removed from the Live CD of Cambridge, but is it not time to apply the same policy to a full install? F-Spot can be replaced by Solang, for example.

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

14 Comments

  1. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Gravatar

    Microsoft code does not serve Microsoft share holders. Microsoft code servers Microsoft’s management, who follow the industry practice of blaming the share holders.

    Shareholder meetings are orchestrated by the board and the company. Agendas are sculpted to achieve a desired outcome and procedures choreographed to ensure that everyone toes the line. After a short session of deafening music to stun them, the mob is exposed to a three ring circus of buzzword salad presentations until powerpoint poisoning brings even the strongest of them into a right proper state of tonic immobility in time for the vote.

    Granted anyone dumb enough or fanatical enough, outside of M$, to own M$ stock already has a few screws loose. But don’t blame these gobshites entirely for M$ management.

    In theory a board of directors could shape up a company, but that would require a lot of time money and effort to get a near unanimous majority working towards that goal. Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board.

  2. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Gravatar

    … Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board. It’s much easier to tear down than build up, so clearing house at Microsoft via the board would have to have a way for the cleaners to gain far more than 85%.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management? Where will they end up? Where ever it is, they’ll bring their One Microsoft Way with them.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management, there would still be the issue of the Microsoft employees. it’s a self-selecting lot. Anyone with any technical skills or knowledge steers clear of M$. Anyone with any ethics steers clear of M$. So what you have is an enormous steaming herd of individuals that would be best off far away from any technology.

    Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    What place can society find for these Microsofters where they can contribute instead of harm? Can they be divested from their ideology and become assets or is a neutral, inert lump the best we can hope for from that lot.

    finalzone Reply:

    “Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    From what I understand, it is a policy rules from PackageKit for a single user that can be modifed through polkit command (unfortunately, frontend Authorization is no longer available and has to be done on terminal). The arguments are about multiple unprivileged users scenarii where that policy should be modified in that consequence.

    What I think triggered those multiple comments are the lack of clarification related to that policy on release note.

    finalzone Reply:

    Here is a clarification about policy:
    http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Security.html

    Hope it helps.

    finalzone Reply:

    Testing the scenario from Fedora 12 laptop. As single user, I can only install signed package from official repository but needs to use root password for unsigned packages especially third-party. It looks like Microsoft Windows behavior but it is not because Policykit ability to fine-graining rules. Remote user are not allowed to install, remove package by default.

  3. your_friend said,

    November 19, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Gravatar

    Is it true that Ubuntu is replacing Gimp with Fspot? Unbelievably stupid reasons of saved space and ease of use have been trotted out as excuses to eliminate one of the most successful free software projects from the CD and default install. More space is saved by eliminating mono and there are plenty of simple photo editors that don’t depend on mono. It is a good idea to have two photo editors just as it is a good idea to have four or five text editors. Each has a strength and can be called when appropriate. As a person who does not edit photos often, I only use GIMP. A simple application to remove red eyes, like digikam has, is nice but I generally don’t bother. The inclusion of mono was stupid, the removal of Gimp is too stupid to believe. Someone tell me it’s not so.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    Using F-Spot wastes space. Blaming gimp is just a way of kicking the ant-hill. Digikam and Solang are nice.

    Microsoft marketers have almost as good a mastery of the Big Lie as the press team for the Great Prevaricator, Ronald Reagan.

    Mark and Jono need to clean house before it is all over for Canonical.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Disk space is hardly the problem of course. Mono puts Microsoft in control.

  4. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Gravatar

    The title is incorrect because DVD version of Fedora 12 has ability to customize installation from the beginning. You can simply disable F-Spot or any mono based packages by choosing “Customize Now” option. That is way better than not having to choice.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    What I wonder is, why is there so much focus on comparing it to another operating system? This behaviour is worth treating as what it is, unless the one responsible was hired from Microsoft or something.

    finalzone Reply:

    Because Fedora has more new technologies that are/will be adopted by other distributions. I think nobody did not bother to remove F-Spot as default because most users will choose to customize their Fedora system during installation.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    In IRC today we got:

    <Kevin_Kofler> At the point where some of the Fedora GNOME users complained about no F-Spot on the live images, I actually made a serious proposal to ship Digikam on the GNOME spin. ;-) I even offered to help making it use QGtkStyle when running under GNOME and this kind of stuff. They rejected it anyway. ;-)

  5. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Gravatar

    Hard to please some people these days. At least solang is available on repository.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    McDonald’s has salad on the menu, too. :-)

What Else is New


  1. What Insiders Are Saying About the Sad State of the European Patent Office (EPO)

    Anonymous claims made by people who are intimately familiar with the European Patent Office (from the inside) shed light on how bad things have become



  2. The EPO Does Not Want Skilled (and 'Expensive') Staff, Layoffs a Growing Concern

    A somewhat pessimistic look (albeit increasingly realistic look) at the European Patent Office, where unions are under fire for raising legitimate concerns about the direction taken by the management since a largely French team was put in charge



  3. Patents Roundup: Accenture Software Patents, Patent Troll Against Apple, Willful Infringements, and Apple Against a Software Patent

    A quick look at various new articles of interest (about software patents) and what can be deduced from them, especially now that software patents are the primary barrier to Free/Libre Open Source software adoption



  4. Software Patents Propped Up by Patent Law Firms That Are Lying, Further Assisted by Rogue Elements Like David Kappos and Randall Rader (Revolving Doors)

    The sheer dishonesty of the patent microcosm (seeking to bring back software patents by misleading the public) and those who are helping this microcosm change the system from the inside, owing to intimate connections from their dubious days inside government



  5. Links 25/9/2016: Linux 4.7.5, 4.4.22; LXQt 0.11

    Links for the day



  6. Patent Quality and Patent Scope the Unspeakable Taboo at the EPO, as Both Are Guillotined by Benoît Battistelli for the Sake of Money

    The gradual destruction of the European Patent Office (EPO), which was once unanimously regarded as the world's best, by a neo-liberal autocrat from France, Benoît Battistelli



  7. Bristows LLP's Hatred/Disdain of UK/EU Democracy Demonstrated; Says “Not Only Will the Pressure for UK Ratification of the UPC Agreement Continue, But a Decision is Wanted Within Weeks.”

    Without even consulting the British public or the European public (both of whom would be severely harmed by the UPC), the flag bearers of the UPC continue to bamboozle and then pressure politicians, public servants and nontechnical representatives



  8. Released Late on a Friday, EPO Social 'Study' (Battistelli-Commissioned Propaganda) Attempts to Blame Staff for Everything

    The longstanding propaganda campaign (framing staff as happy or framing unhappy staff as a disgruntled minority) is out and the timing of the release is suspicious to say the least



  9. Links 23/9/2016: Latest Microsoft and Lenovo Spin (Now in ‘Damage Control’ Mode)

    Links for the day



  10. White Male-Dominated EPO Management Sinks to New Lows, Again

    Benoît Battistelli continues to make the EPO look like Europe's biggest laughing stock by attempting to tackle issues with corny photo ops rather than real change (like SUEPO recognition, diverse hiring, improved patent quality, and cessation of sheer abuses)



  11. Journalism 102: Do Not Become Like 'Managing IP' or IAM 'Magazine' (the Megaphones of the EPO’s Management)

    Another look at convergence between media and the EPO, which is spending virtually millions of Euros literally buying the media and ensuring that the EPO's abuses are scarcely covered (if ever mentioned at all)



  12. Journalism 101: Do Not Believe Anything That Benoît Battistelli and the EPO's Management Say (Also Don't Fall for the UPC Hype)

    A survey/review (or an overview) of recent articles about the EPO and why they're wrong (mostly because they parrot the official lies from Battistelli's department)



  13. Patent Law Firms, David Kappos, and IAM 'Magazine' Still Shelter Software Patents by Cherry-Picking and Lobbying

    Amid the gradual collapse of software patents in the United States there are disingenuous efforts to bring them back or maintain a perception that these patents are still potent



  14. Microsoft-Connected Patent Trolls Going Places and Suing Microsoft Rivals, Microsoft Wants More 'Linux Patent Tax'

    Microsoft-connected patent trolls like Larry Horn's MobileMedia are still attacking Microsoft rivals and Microsoft wants more money from Korea, after it attacked Linux with software patents over there (notably Samsung and LG)



  15. Links 22/9/2016: Linux Professional Institute Redesign, Red Hat Upgraded

    Links for the day



  16. Links 22/9/2016: Red Hat's Latest Results, GNOME 3.22 Released

    Links for the day



  17. The Patent Law Firms in the US Relentlessly Lobby for Software Patents Resurgence by Placing Emphasis Only on Rare Outcomes

    Decisions against software patents continue to be ignored or intentionally overlooked by patent law firms, which instead saturate the media with the few cases where courts unexpectedly rule in favour of software patents



  18. Links 21/9/2016: Lenovo Helps Microsoft Block GNU/Linux Installations

    Links for the day



  19. Like Big Tobacco Lobbyists, Benoît Battistelli and Team UPC Are Just Chronically Lying and Manipulating Politicians With Their Lies

    Benoît Battistelli and Team UPC continue to meddle in politics and mislead the public (through the press) about patent quality as well the UPC, which is now in effect sunk inside the ashtray of history



  20. The EPO's 'Investigative' Function is Totally Out of Control and Continues to Get Bigger, Whitewashed by So-called 'Review'

    An update on the situation which still causes great unrest at the European Patent Office (EPO), namely abuse of staff by the so-called Investigative Unit (Eponia's equivalent of unaccountable secret services)



  21. Microsoft and Patent Law Firms in the United States Can't Stop Writing About McRo in a Coordinated Push to Resurrect Software Patents

    Microsoft is pursuing more Linux 'patent tax' (using software patents) and patent law firms are preoccupied flooding the media with their shameless self-promotion which is also software patents promotion



  22. For Abuse Like Plagiarism and Malpractice, the US Patent System is Still World Champion

    Low patent quality, abusive litigation (e.g. by patent trolls) and various other elements that globally discredit the USPTO are only symptoms of a wider problem, which is a greedy system motivated by neo-liberal values rather than professionalism and servitude



  23. Links 20/9/2016: GNOME 3.22 Preview, Absolute 14.2 Released

    Links for the day



  24. Links 19/9/2016: Linux 4.8 RC7, KDevelop 5.0.1

    Links for the day



  25. Patents Roundup: Disclosure Requirements, Mobile Patents, Patent Lawyers' Plagiarism, USPTO Getting Sued, and Corporate Domination of the Patent System

    The unwanted elements of the patent system (as it stands at present) illuminated by very recent news and patent court cases



  26. With or Without the UPC (Which Will Probably Never Happen) Battistelli is Crushing the EPO and Ejects Experienced Staff, a Future Without Examination Possible

    A pessimistic but probably realistic take on what is happening at the European Patent Office (EPO), which is undergoing a silent transformation so wide-ranging that stakeholders deserve to know about it



  27. When EPO Liar-in-Chief Benoît Battistelli Defamed His Staff in Parliament, Comparing Them to Nazis and Criminals

    A reminder of the audacity of Benoît Battistelli, who in his capacity as a politician -- a problem in its own right -- slanders EPO staff



  28. After McRO v Namco Case (at CAFC) the Patent Microcosm Works Overtime to Produce Pro-Software Patents Propaganda, Smear the Supreme Court

    Increasingly desperate to convince people to pursue software patents and/or use their software patents to initiate growingly risky lawsuits (high risk of losing), the patent microcosm hugs McRO v Namco while distorting the complete record of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (CAFC) on this subject



  29. Poor Quality Control at the US Patent Office Gives Birth to 'Unpatent' and Gives a Voice to Critics

    The USPTO must up its game on patent quality (not relying on PTAB and the courts correcting its errors after the grants) or face growing backlash that tarnishes its public image



  30. Patent Trial and Appeal Board Under Attack by Law Firms, Which Will Soon Infiltrate It in the Form of 'Bar Association'

    The vultures that are patent law firms keep circling around PTAB and hoping to destroy it, if not from the outside then from the inside, potentially regressing and ruining great progress for US patent quality since Mayo and Alice


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts