EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

11.19.09

Can’t Trust Microsoft with Code, So Why is Fedora 12 Mono and Winforms Dependent?

Posted in ECMA, GNOME, GNU/Linux, Kernel, Microsoft, Novell, Patents, Red Hat at 6:57 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Bug eyes

Summary: Fedora 12 includes Microsoft/Novell software that falls outside the ECMA standard, despite the fact that such code is problematic

MICROSOFT APOLOGISM is a subject that we wrote about yesterday and will revisit later today. Regarding Matt Asay’s “Apache: ‘No jerks allowed’,” a reader tells us: “Matt seems to have a self-contradictory summary. Which is it? Microsoft is part of Apache or no jerks allowed in Apache?

As a reminder about Microsoft and Apache, see [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18].

The tail bit of the article seems to neglect the Apache perspective. It is, or at least was, about the Apache Foundation and its projects. What about the quality of Apache? What about the sustainability of Apache? Those are important.

“Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open. Microsoft did a hit and run on him, with his own help.”
      –Anonymous
To look to another project, the Linux kernel, we see what can go wrong if a project lets naive people let jerks walk all over them. Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open.

“Microsoft did a hit and run on him,” argues our reader, “with his own help.” We wrote about this right here.

Our anonymous reader concludes as follows: “The assertion that code should matter, if taken at face value, should also then take into consideration the history of coding and engineering quality coming out of Redmond. Or should it? Maybe there is only One Microsoft Way for all projects and code quality should be a thing of the past.

The bottom line is that Microsoft code cannot be trusted because it only serves Microsoft shareholders, to whom GNU/Linux and Free software are not acceptable, as they are antithetical. Red Hat is making a mistake right now because it follows the footsteps of OpenSUSE 11.2 by becoming dependent on Winforms. As the following new post emphasises:

The Fedora 12 Constantine GNOME Live CD is Mono free, but installing GNOME from the DVD pulls in not only Mono itself, but also support for Windows.Forms (mono-winforms), which is outside the ECMA standard (and not covered under Microsoft’s horribly inadequate Community Promise).

While Constantine no longer includes Tomboy, it does still include F-Spot which is a .NET application.

Mono was removed from the Live CD of Cambridge, but is it not time to apply the same policy to a full install? F-Spot can be replaced by Solang, for example.

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

14 Comments

  1. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Gravatar

    Microsoft code does not serve Microsoft share holders. Microsoft code servers Microsoft’s management, who follow the industry practice of blaming the share holders.

    Shareholder meetings are orchestrated by the board and the company. Agendas are sculpted to achieve a desired outcome and procedures choreographed to ensure that everyone toes the line. After a short session of deafening music to stun them, the mob is exposed to a three ring circus of buzzword salad presentations until powerpoint poisoning brings even the strongest of them into a right proper state of tonic immobility in time for the vote.

    Granted anyone dumb enough or fanatical enough, outside of M$, to own M$ stock already has a few screws loose. But don’t blame these gobshites entirely for M$ management.

    In theory a board of directors could shape up a company, but that would require a lot of time money and effort to get a near unanimous majority working towards that goal. Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board.

  2. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Gravatar

    … Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board. It’s much easier to tear down than build up, so clearing house at Microsoft via the board would have to have a way for the cleaners to gain far more than 85%.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management? Where will they end up? Where ever it is, they’ll bring their One Microsoft Way with them.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management, there would still be the issue of the Microsoft employees. it’s a self-selecting lot. Anyone with any technical skills or knowledge steers clear of M$. Anyone with any ethics steers clear of M$. So what you have is an enormous steaming herd of individuals that would be best off far away from any technology.

    Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    What place can society find for these Microsofters where they can contribute instead of harm? Can they be divested from their ideology and become assets or is a neutral, inert lump the best we can hope for from that lot.

    finalzone Reply:

    “Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    From what I understand, it is a policy rules from PackageKit for a single user that can be modifed through polkit command (unfortunately, frontend Authorization is no longer available and has to be done on terminal). The arguments are about multiple unprivileged users scenarii where that policy should be modified in that consequence.

    What I think triggered those multiple comments are the lack of clarification related to that policy on release note.

    finalzone Reply:

    Here is a clarification about policy:
    http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Security.html

    Hope it helps.

    finalzone Reply:

    Testing the scenario from Fedora 12 laptop. As single user, I can only install signed package from official repository but needs to use root password for unsigned packages especially third-party. It looks like Microsoft Windows behavior but it is not because Policykit ability to fine-graining rules. Remote user are not allowed to install, remove package by default.

  3. your_friend said,

    November 19, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Gravatar

    Is it true that Ubuntu is replacing Gimp with Fspot? Unbelievably stupid reasons of saved space and ease of use have been trotted out as excuses to eliminate one of the most successful free software projects from the CD and default install. More space is saved by eliminating mono and there are plenty of simple photo editors that don’t depend on mono. It is a good idea to have two photo editors just as it is a good idea to have four or five text editors. Each has a strength and can be called when appropriate. As a person who does not edit photos often, I only use GIMP. A simple application to remove red eyes, like digikam has, is nice but I generally don’t bother. The inclusion of mono was stupid, the removal of Gimp is too stupid to believe. Someone tell me it’s not so.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    Using F-Spot wastes space. Blaming gimp is just a way of kicking the ant-hill. Digikam and Solang are nice.

    Microsoft marketers have almost as good a mastery of the Big Lie as the press team for the Great Prevaricator, Ronald Reagan.

    Mark and Jono need to clean house before it is all over for Canonical.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Disk space is hardly the problem of course. Mono puts Microsoft in control.

  4. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Gravatar

    The title is incorrect because DVD version of Fedora 12 has ability to customize installation from the beginning. You can simply disable F-Spot or any mono based packages by choosing “Customize Now” option. That is way better than not having to choice.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    What I wonder is, why is there so much focus on comparing it to another operating system? This behaviour is worth treating as what it is, unless the one responsible was hired from Microsoft or something.

    finalzone Reply:

    Because Fedora has more new technologies that are/will be adopted by other distributions. I think nobody did not bother to remove F-Spot as default because most users will choose to customize their Fedora system during installation.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    In IRC today we got:

    <Kevin_Kofler> At the point where some of the Fedora GNOME users complained about no F-Spot on the live images, I actually made a serious proposal to ship Digikam on the GNOME spin. ;-) I even offered to help making it use QGtkStyle when running under GNOME and this kind of stuff. They rejected it anyway. ;-)

  5. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Gravatar

    Hard to please some people these days. At least solang is available on repository.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    McDonald’s has salad on the menu, too. :-)

What Else is New


  1. Patent Dangers to Linux and Android: Qualcomm, Apple, and Nokia

    The prevailing problem which is companies with mountains of patents going after OEMs, using a bulk of infringement accusations, and demanding 'protection' money



  2. Colossal Institutional Failure Surrounding the European Patent Office (EPO) and EPO Chickens Out of Debate About It

    Shielded by a network of institutions, governments, and departments that facilitate the EPO's abuses by inexcusable inaction, Team Battistelli continues to hoard more money and power



  3. The United States Has Already Tackled Both Software Patents and Patent Trolls

    An outline of some notable responses to TC Heartland and where we go from here



  4. Cloudflare Wants to Completely Squash the Patent Troll Blackbird Technologies by Squashing the Only Thing It Has

    Putting more of its money to good use, for a change, Cloudflare goes for the kill against Blackbird Technologies, which has no technologies, just patents and lawsuits



  5. Links 25/5/2017: Mesa 17.1.1, Qt 5.9.0 RC, and Much More

    Links for the day



  6. Links 24/5/2017: New RHEL Beta, SteamOS Updated

    Links for the day



  7. Great News: While IBM et al Try to Undermine Patent Reform the Supreme Court Deepens the Reform in TC Heartland Case

    In a unanimous decision, with the court ruling 8-0 against TC Heartland, the monkey business in East Texas (beneficial to patent trolls and large businesses that leverage software patents) may have just come to an end



  8. Speculations About Battistelli's End of Term, Campinos at EUIPO, and Failed UPC Ambitions

    Rumours and speculations surrounding the fate of the EPO's leadership now that the UPC gravy train is stuck again and Battistelli's protector, Jesper Kongstad, is about to leave



  9. Martijn van Dam is Wrong to Believe That Battistelli's Abuses Are Somehow Acceptable or Tolerable Because His Term is Possibly Ending

    Coverage of Martijn van Dam’s stance (he is the Dutch State Secretary for Economic Affairs) reveals that economic gain trumps ethics and justice, irrespective of what the law says



  10. Media and Staff Association Elections at EPO and WIPO Are Compromised

    A campaign of abuse (legal bullying) and gifting to the media, combined with a wide-ranging assault on critics who represent the interests of staff, have led WIPO and EPO down the route to totality



  11. New Documents Help Demonstrate That ILO Delivers Institutional Injustice to EPO Employees and Cushions Team Battistelli

    The International Labour Organisation Administrative Tribunal (ILOAT) delivers not justice but merely the illusion of justice, probably in defiance of Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)



  12. Leaked: 2017 European Inventor Award Finalists, or Stooges Whom the Tyrant Battistelli Exploits for PR Purposes and Media Manipulation

    The stupidest ceremony in Europe (turning serious science into something sketchy such as Eurovision) is disliked among EPO staff and is exploited by the person who destroys the EPO (Benoît Battistelli) to pretend all is fine and dandy, at huge expense to the Office (as extraordinary as about 5 million Euros for a ~2-hour show)



  13. EPO: Can the Staff Union of the European Patent Office (SUEPO) Still Save It?

    Genuine concerns about the slow process at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and the lack of progress at ILO, which coincide with weakening of the unions and threat to jobs of patent examiners (leaving ordinary Europeans more vulnerable to meritless patent lawsuits)



  14. Links 21/5/2017: Linux 3.18.53, Tizen 4.0

    Links for the day



  15. Cloudflare's Enemy is Software Patents, Not Just One Software Patent or One Patent Troll

    With a bounty of $50,000, which is likely less than the cost of legal defense, Cloudflare looks for help with its own case rather than the underlying issues that need tackling worldwide



  16. Patent Laws -- and Especially Eligibility of Software Patents -- Are Being Hijacked by Large Corporations and Their Front Groups

    Intervention by large multinational corporations and their lawyers, front groups, etc. (like the classic lobbying model) gives room for concern in multiple continents where most software development is done



  17. Links 18/5/2017: Catching Up With the Past Three Days

    Links for the day



  18. The US Supreme Court Consults USPTO Director Michelle Lee Regarding the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) Which is Invalidating Software Patents With CAFC's Approval

    Software patents continue to get knocked out by the Leahy-Smith America Invents Act (AIA) whose introduction of PTAB gave a helping hand to companies that are susceptible to abusive litigation (with bogus patents)



  19. IBM and Its Revolving Doors Lobby Are Plotting to Undermine Supreme Court Rulings to Restore Patentability of Software

    IBM has become so evil that it is now trying to steal democracy, label programmers "thieves", and basically attack the rule of law by extra-judicially overturning a Supreme Court decision



  20. 3 Years After the Alice Case at the Supreme Court the Plague of Software Patents is Easier to Cope With

    Litigation figures are down, rejection rates of software patents remain high, and only spin (e.g. cherry-picking) or constant lobbying can save those who used to profit from software patents



  21. The Attacks of Patent Trolls as Outlined in the Media This Past Week

    An outline of some of the latest troll cases to be aware of and their consequences too (e.g. software patents being used to literally shut down entire programs)



  22. Links 14/5/2017: Linux 4.12 RC1 and KDE Frameworks 5.34.0

    Links for the day



  23. Industry Giants Challenge Qualcomm's Patent Practices While the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Closely Examines Such Behavior

    Scrutiny of Qualcomm's patent aggression and coercion -- scrutiny that can profoundly change the way software patents, SEPs and FRAND are viewed -- as seen in various amicus briefs (amici) from industry giants that are affected



  24. Professor Lisa Larrimore Ouellette Questions Whether Patents Work When Patent Scope is Too Broad

    Citing MIT economist (and MacArthur “genius”) Heidi Williams, Professor Lisa Larrimore Ouellette from Stanford challenges old myths and quotes: “we still have essentially no credible empirical evidence on the seemingly simple question of whether stronger patent rights—either longer patent terms or broader patent rights—encourage research investments.”



  25. OIN is Still a Distraction Unless We Want GNU/Linux to Coexist With Software Patents (Rather Than Eliminate Those)

    Another wave of media coverage by/for the Open Invention Network (OIN) necessitates a reminder of what OIN stands for and why it is not tackling the biggest problems which Free/Open Source software (FOSS) faces



  26. Links 13/5/2017: Neptune Plasma 5 ISO, a Shift to Free (FOSS) Databases

    Links for the day



  27. Countries With a Dozen European Patents Are an Easy Photo-Op 'Sell' for Battistelli While the EPO's Demise is Largely Ignored by the Patent Microcosm

    Behind the façade of legitimacy, the EPO suffers from an incompetent, insecure and delusional boss, whose actions will almost certainly lead to the collapse of both the Office and the entire Organisation (whose founding document he routinely shreds to pieces)



  28. Our Assessment: Unitary Patent (UPC) Will Crumble Along With Battistelli's Regime at the EPO

    A reflection and an opinion on where the EPO stands and what it means for the UPC, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere (it's all talk and lobbying)



  29. The European Patent Office Has a Long History/Track Record of 'Screwing' Contractors

    The European Patent Office (EPO) appears to have quite an extensive track record/reputation for ‘screwing’ contractors and then misusing immunity to get away with it



  30. Links 12/5/2017: Wine 2.8, Kdenlive 17.04.1, NHS Windows Syndrome

    Links for the day


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts