Summary: Another angle on the Apple vs Nokia case

WE all know that Apple sued Linux/Android without any prior provocation from the side of Linux/Android. It makes Apple a patent aggressor, but some people cite Nokia as an example of Apple being the victim of a Linux-supporting company [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. In our third IRC channel (#boycottnovell-social) we have just discussed the point which came to us via Identi.ca [1, 2] (language warning, as it's IRC and microblogging).

To make a long story short, Oiaohm insisted that it was Apple's fault as it started to provoke Linux-based products (such as Palm's WebOS) using patents. He explained that Nokia's action was defensive in a proactive sense. Partial log is below. ⬆

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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: June 4th, 2010

schestowitz	"although nokia has been fairly good to free software, when they pull bullshit like that they deserve to be called out [..] hey where was all the stories about nokia when they brought all the litigation with apple for bullshit patents?" @eeefak I wrote about that a lot and denounced Nokia since 2008 http://www.google.com/search?q=site:techrights.org+apple+nokia&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=	Jun 04 09:51
phIRCe-local	Title: site:techrights.org apple nokia - Google Search .::. Size~: 35.96 KB	Jun 04 09:51
oiaohm	Some people	Jun 04 10:24
oiaohm	Apple started it	Jun 04 10:24
oiaohm	Never mess with nokia	Jun 04 10:24
oiaohm	Nokia is truly one of the most friendly companies out there.  If nokia used all the patents they had they could have 100 percent of the market.	Jun 04 10:25
schestowitz	Apple started it?	Jun 04 10:26
schestowitz	I think Nokia did	Jun 04 10:26
oiaohm	Apple started it.	Jun 04 10:34
oiaohm	Trying to apply font patents on Nokia	Jun 04 10:34
oiaohm	Sometimes you should leave well enough alone.	Jun 04 10:34
schestowitz	I see..	Jun 04 10:35
oiaohm	Ie apple poked nokia with small stick.	Jun 04 10:36
oiaohm	Nokia pulled out huge cub and procedded to beat them into the ground.	Jun 04 10:36
oiaohm	Nokia is fine as long as you are not dumb enough to poke them.	Jun 04 10:37
schestowitz	Any link on that?	Jun 04 10:37
schestowitz	I thought Nokia had struck first	Jun 04 10:37
oiaohm	Ie apple saber rattled.	Jun 04 10:38
oiaohm	I did have the link.	Jun 04 10:38
oiaohm	It was over there iphone they made a statement and nokia kinda exploded.	Jun 04 10:38
oiaohm	Basically nokia believe in pemetive strick if they get wind of you planing to hit them.	Jun 04 10:40
schestowitz	Show it to me, pls	Jun 04 10:40
schestowitz	it's /very/ important	Jun 04 10:40
schestowitz	I accused Nokia is being the first to strike	Jun 04 10:40
schestowitz	I'd love to show Apple started it	Jun 04 10:41
oiaohm	I know what the tech was about trying to get google to play ball.	Jun 04 10:43
schestowitz	Let me know if you find this	Jun 04 10:47
schestowitz	You're usually right about this stuff	Jun 04 10:47
schestowitz	But I ought to at least show evidence from Apple/Nokia	Jun 04 10:47
oiaohm	Its two things.	Jun 04 10:50
oiaohm	Multi-touch and fonts.  schestowitz	Jun 04 10:50
oiaohm	Apple was saber rattling about multi-touch attacked quite a few companies.  Nokia needs multi-touch to stay competitive.	Jun 04 10:51
oiaohm	Nokia has a lot of core patents.   Basically hit Apple hard get a good patent deal.	Jun 04 10:51
schestowitz	But did Apple threaten Nokia?	Jun 04 10:52
MinceR	for yourself, that is	Jun 04 10:52
MinceR	crApple needs to be hit harder so they won't oppress the industry any more	Jun 04 10:52
oiaohm	Nokia don't have to threat them before they will hit you.	Jun 04 10:54
oiaohm	If you place your self as a tech road block.	Jun 04 10:54
oiaohm	They will steam roll you.	Jun 04 10:54
oiaohm	Basically apple threating other companies over multi-touch basically put themselves in nokia target to be neturalised before they can attack nokia.	Jun 04 10:55
oiaohm	Be a nice company and nokia is nice to you.	Jun 04 10:55
oiaohm	be a asshole company hope nokia has nothing on you.	Jun 04 10:55
MinceR	and what has Xiph done against Nokia, then?	Jun 04 10:57
oiaohm	http://industry.bnet.com/technology/10004789/apple-multi-touch-patent-on-shaky-ground/  And this is the bit that tops it all.	Jun 04 10:57
phIRCe-local	Title: Apple Multi-Touch Patent on Shaky Ground | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 57.85 KB	Jun 04 10:57
oiaohm	Apples patent might be completely worthless.	Jun 04 10:57
MinceR	don't forget Nokia's attack on HTML5.	Jun 04 10:58
oiaohm	Define attack.	Jun 04 10:59
oiaohm	Lot of stuff against Xiph nokia showed was stuff they had licenced from other companies not there own stuff.	Jun 04 10:59
oiaohm	Also hardware decoders are more power effective ie longer battery live.	Jun 04 11:00
schestowitz	http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-source	Jun 04 11:00
phIRCe-local	Title: Aquaria goes open source! - Wolfire Games Blog .::. Size~: 20.09 KB	Jun 04 11:00
MinceR	Nokia along with crApple made sure that HTML5 has no default recommendation for codecs	Jun 04 11:00
MinceR	when it could have been Theora/Vorbis.	Jun 04 11:00
MinceR	that was an asshole move	Jun 04 11:01
MinceR	it was said that Nokia did it so they could force DRM-encrusted shit the throats of users.	Jun 04 11:01
oiaohm	Yep Nokia was on of the first to support VP8	Jun 04 11:01
MinceR	s/hit/hit down/	Jun 04 11:01
MinceR	there was no VP8 back then.	Jun 04 11:01
schestowitz	Maybe it would not have been necessary	Jun 04 11:02
oiaohm	Nokia was also the first to call google to release vp8	Jun 04 11:02
schestowitz	YouTUbe could use Ogg	Jun 04 11:02
schestowitz	Google bought a company instead	Jun 04 11:02
oiaohm	To solve issue MinceR	Jun 04 11:02
MinceR	it was a nonissue	Jun 04 11:02
schestowitz	Nokia support Microsoft's Silver Lie	Jun 04 11:03
schestowitz	Since early 2008	Jun 04 11:03
oiaohm	There are a few issue with Theora	Jun 04 11:03
MinceR	also, don't forget Nokia's whining about how the FLOSS community should just do what Nokia wants and help them put DRM everywhere.	Jun 04 11:03
schestowitz	Ari's rant	Jun 04 11:03
MinceR	what issues? slightly less efficient than the holy H.264?	Jun 04 11:03
oiaohm	Vorbis you can build hardware decoders for quite well.	Jun 04 11:03
oiaohm	H264 the same.	Jun 04 11:03
schestowitz	Linux users "need some education"	Jun 04 11:03
MinceR	or perhaps VC-1? (lol)	Jun 04 11:03
oiaohm	Theora has issues when you try to turn it into power effective circuit.	Jun 04 11:04
oiaohm	VC-1 is worse than Theora in a circuit.	Jun 04 11:04
MinceR	so what do you recommend? i'd recommend using a CPU.	Jun 04 11:04
oiaohm	Decated cirucit does not take as much power and lets the cpu run slow and pull less power.	Jun 04 11:05
oiaohm	Remember lot of Nokia devices are about days of battery life.	Jun 04 11:05
[...]
oiaohm	http://mashable.com/2009/01/26/apple-multi-touch-patent/  << the nokia attack on apple would have started from here.  schestowitz	Jun 04 11:15
phIRCe-local	Title: Apple Gets Their Multi-Touch Patent; Is Palm Screwed? .::. Size~: 89.79 KB	Jun 04 11:15
oiaohm	A quite open patent attack against Palm over multitouch that nokia will need to implement to complete against iphone.	Jun 04 11:16
oiaohm	Don't go rattling sabbers sometimes you wake up a monster who is in on mood in talking.	Jun 04 11:17
oiaohm	http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/22/tim-cook-apple-will-aggressively-protect-iphone-intellectual-property/  And these rumors would have made Nokia think offence is better than waiting around.	Jun 04 11:20
phIRCe-local	Title: Tim Cook: Apple Will Aggressively Protect iPhone Intellectual Property - Mac Rumors .::. Size~: 18.34 KB	Jun 04 11:20
oiaohm	Yep don't rumor that you are going to Aggressively protect tech then be infringing on stuff.	Jun 04 11:21
oiaohm	I guess schestowitz is afk	Jun 04 11:21
[...]
oiaohm	Can you see the start point now.  schestowitz	Jun 04 11:31
oiaohm	Ie apple says they going to protect the tech in the iphone.	Jun 04 11:31
oiaohm	Nokia gets upset.	Jun 04 11:31
schestowitz	Yes, I read that	Jun 04 11:40
schestowitz	I was gonna do a post about it	Jun 04 11:40