Join us now at the IRC channel.
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19062832 | Aug 11 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Aug 11 00:31 | |
| scientes | ugggh, GNUCash is kinda broken | Aug 11 00:39 |
| scientes | cause when you use multiple currencies it counts exenses against the current exchange rate | Aug 11 00:40 |
| scientes | instead of the rate when the sale happened | Aug 11 00:40 |
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| MinceR | http://kepkezelo.com/images/fwmm1re2ym5cbcb0bko1.jpg | Aug 11 01:34 |
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| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19062825 | Aug 11 01:42 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Aug 11 01:42 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm free to discuss my case more now. | Aug 11 02:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I made a plea deal with the prosecutor. | Aug 11 02:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They dropped one of the aggravated assault with deadly weapon charges and converted the other into a disorderly conduct. | Aug 11 02:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I agreed to the minimum sentence the court could impose. Supervision. | Aug 11 02:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 12 months of Supervision and a fine. | Aug 11 02:06 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The first 4 months are monitored by Probation and will involve all the stuff you'd expect. Checking in, random drug tests. Nothing that's that big of a deal. | Aug 11 02:06 |
| scientes | except that probation is for-profit | Aug 11 02:06 |
| scientes | again, you need to get out of the states | Aug 11 02:07 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I have to prove that I'm going to see my psychiatrist and filling my medication. | Aug 11 02:07 |
| scientes | it is a crazy land | Aug 11 02:07 |
| scientes | there was no case | Aug 11 02:07 |
| scientes | as there was no proof | Aug 11 02:07 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Then we go back to court on December 9th and if I'm not in violation of probation, they convert the rest to unsupervised supervision. | Aug 11 02:07 |
| scientes | that just means you have to pay for jack shit | Aug 11 02:07 |
| scientes | and the idea that you have to pay for something that is required is bullshit | Aug 11 02:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Pretty much. | Aug 11 02:08 |
| scientes | its a fine | Aug 11 02:08 |
| scientes | not a fee | Aug 11 02:08 |
| scientes | total nonsense | Aug 11 02:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The idea is that you're a criminal. | Aug 11 02:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The court has done you a "favor" by letting you stay out of jail and proving that you'll behave. | Aug 11 02:08 |
| scientes | if they want you to be a slave they should sentence you to hard labor | Aug 11 02:08 |
| scientes | except that in the US labor never makes money | Aug 11 02:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And you have to pay for a probation officer to watch you. | Aug 11 02:09 |
| scientes | its just a giant boon-doggle | Aug 11 02:09 |
| MinceR | the state is a giant boondoggle | Aug 11 02:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah. Probation means you owe the state money. | Aug 11 02:09 |
| scientes | like in Texas the prisoners make Victoria's Secret | Aug 11 02:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Jail means the state has to pay money to put you somewhere. | Aug 11 02:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So they haven't done you a favor. They've done themselves a favor. | Aug 11 02:09 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], except the GULAGs were actually profitable | Aug 11 02:09 |
| scientes | I'm not saying they were great, but at least they were self-sufficient | Aug 11 02:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They don't want to spend money to put low level offenders in jail. Especially if they will pay money to stay out of jail. And who wouldn't? | Aug 11 02:10 |
| scientes | its just about which makes them more money | Aug 11 02:10 |
| scientes | as in, gives them excuse to bilk the public more | Aug 11 02:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said, "Well, it'll do I guess. I'm not going to smile in a probation photo.". | Aug 11 02:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Hmm, messages not being sent. | Aug 11 02:13 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | They asked me what would happen if they drug tested me yesterday. | Aug 11 02:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said they'd waste some of their time and then I'd go home. | Aug 11 02:20 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to rianne__ | Aug 11 02:27 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | A lot of people get their probation violated by just outright stupidity. | Aug 11 02:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | My mom's ex husband's (Gonad) son-in-law went into a bar to cash his paycheck. | Aug 11 02:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And someone saw him and reported him to his probation officer, and he went to jail. | Aug 11 02:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | After he was in jail, my step-sister went "Well, what were the chances that someone would see him in there?". | Aug 11 02:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | In a town of 17,000 people. | Aug 11 02:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When all of the bars are in a row one block away from the court. | Aug 11 02:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I suppose people also get themselves in trouble posting pictures of themselves checked into a bar on Facebook or something. | Aug 11 02:40 |
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| cubexyz | schestowitz, part of Gary Kildall's memoirs can be seen here: | Aug 11 02:54 |
| cubexyz | https://www.i-programmer.info/news/82-heritage/9968-gary-kildall-memoir-available-to-download.html | Aug 11 02:54 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.i-programmer.info | Gary Kildall Memoir Available to Download | Aug 11 02:54 | |
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| MrGreenFriend | hey, i'm trying to access freenode via Tor, with HexChat, using ECDSA-NIST256P-CHALLENGE | Aug 11 03:23 |
| MrGreenFriend | does anyone know how to do that? | Aug 11 03:23 |
| MrGreenFriend | https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat#accessing-freenode-via-tor | Aug 11 03:23 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-freenode.net | Connecting to freenode - freenode | Aug 11 03:23 | |
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| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: any idea when Eric might send additional material? Readers are asking for the next parts of the series. | Aug 11 04:30 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: I saw him mentioned the other day | Aug 11 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | maybe this is why you're bringing him up again? | Aug 11 04:31 |
| cubexyz | yeah I see you posted the same thing :) | Aug 11 04:32 |
| cubexyz | didn't even realize | Aug 11 04:32 |
| schestowitz | I did | Aug 11 04:32 |
| schestowitz | do you follow daily links? | Aug 11 04:32 |
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| cubexyz | sometimes I grep the irclogs for certain things | Aug 11 04:32 |
| schestowitz | we do loads of heavily lifting around that | Aug 11 04:32 |
| schestowitz | to make the WWW more accessible | Aug 11 04:32 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, not sure. i think he is busy with personal stuff | Aug 11 04:33 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: thanks, good... I still post the logs, but periodically when it's quiet: August, xmas, Easter | Aug 11 04:33 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: yes, that's what I thought | Aug 11 04:33 |
| MrGreenFriend | what is the link for the logs? | Aug 11 04:33 |
| schestowitz | don't pressure him, it's not urgent at all | Aug 11 04:34 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: wait... | Aug 11 04:34 |
| cubexyz | I think techrights-2018.log is still updating | Aug 11 04:34 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/category/irc-logs/ | Aug 11 04:34 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/irc-channel/ | Aug 11 04:34 |
| cubexyz | guess I should change the filename | Aug 11 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | Old: http://techrights.org/irc-channel/irc-archives/ | Aug 11 04:35 |
| cubexyz | oh yeah you got tons of info there | Aug 11 04:35 |
| schestowitz | I see we started 2008 | Aug 11 04:35 |
| schestowitz | Bravo to MinceR for staying such a dedicated regular for so many years | Aug 11 04:36 |
| cubexyz | is that when techrights started, 2008? | Aug 11 04:36 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m] has also been here for ages, cubexyz... Slated (Keith) helped initial setup | Aug 11 04:36 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: no, 2006 | Aug 11 04:37 |
| schestowitz | but the channels (IRC) came later on | Aug 11 04:37 |
| schestowitz | I was a doctoral student at the time and had a machine at the log running there just for logging, IIRC | Aug 11 04:37 |
| schestowitz | I still have many, many dreams about those days (going back to that lab to check the IRC stuff is all set up) | Aug 11 04:38 |
| cubexyz | I first noticed linux in the tech schools appearing in 1994 | Aug 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | days ago at the gym I tried tracing back our first use of the term openwashing | Aug 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | to verify it was use who coined it (first) | Aug 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: that's when Linux Journal started | Aug 11 04:40 |
| cubexyz | the whole Linux/IRC/Community thing could have started much earlier than it did | Aug 11 04:40 |
| schestowitz | 1994: wget "https://secure2.linuxjournal.com/ljarchive/LJ/001/2734.html | Aug 11 04:40 |
| cubexyz | at least for me personally | Aug 11 04:40 |
| schestowitz | I have a script to download their whole site... | Aug 11 04:40 |
| schestowitz | u=.3 | Aug 11 04:40 |
| schestowitz | sleep $u ; wget "https://secure2.linuxjournal.com/ljarchive/LJ/001/2734.html" | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | sleep $u ; wget "https://secure2.linuxjournal.com/ljarchive/LJ/001/2736.html" | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | sleep $u ; wget "https://secure2.linuxjournal.com/ljarchive/LJ/001/2737.html" | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | sleep $u ; wget "https://secure2.linuxjournal.com/ljarchive/LJ/001/2733.html" | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | On it goes, 12500 or so URLs | Aug 11 04:41 |
| cubexyz | can't remember when I first started with IRC.. it was in the 1990's sometime | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | I first used IRC in 1994 or 1995 | Aug 11 04:41 |
| cubexyz | ah but did you talk about linux on irc in 1994? :) | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | I used a dial-up modem | Aug 11 04:41 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know about GNU or about Linux until years later | Aug 11 04:42 |
| schestowitz | I was about 12 anyway | Aug 11 04:42 |
| cubexyz | 1994 was when Linux really started to catch on | Aug 11 04:43 |
| schestowitz | Didn't even know I'd live IRC 24/7 for 12 years | Aug 11 04:43 |
| cubexyz | xrubik was 1994, I remember that | Aug 11 04:43 |
| schestowitz | Linux now goes into a different phase -- one that started years back | Aug 11 04:43 |
| schestowitz | (and it's not a good phase) | Aug 11 04:43 |
| schestowitz | I think it's too late to change this until a new wave starts | Aug 11 04:44 |
| schestowitz | like a post-FSF FSF | Aug 11 04:44 |
| cubexyz | it's morphed into TVs, Android devices, etc | Aug 11 04:44 |
| schestowitz | They aren't keeping up | Aug 11 04:44 |
| schestowitz | listening devices, 'smart' things', 'cloud' | Aug 11 04:44 |
| cubexyz | Did I mention I was selling FreeBSD in 1995? | Aug 11 04:45 |
| schestowitz | no, not that I can recall | Aug 11 04:45 |
| cubexyz | so I did try even then to get people off windoze | Aug 11 04:45 |
| schestowitz | My friend from school told me about Linux first | Aug 11 04:45 |
| schestowitz | he experimented with it, he was very geeky | Aug 11 04:45 |
| schestowitz | I was properly introduced to it by a Finnish exchange student who became my friend when I started university, aged 18 | Aug 11 04:46 |
| schestowitz | Jukka | Aug 11 04:46 |
| schestowitz | Ahonen IIRC | Aug 11 04:46 |
| cubexyz | http://www.maxhost.org/other/freebsd-1995.jpeg | Aug 11 04:46 |
| cubexyz | still in the shrink wrap :-/ | Aug 11 04:47 |
| cubexyz | unsold copies | Aug 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | (useless fact: the other side of techrights and rtuxmachines is nowadays done in northern Finland) | Aug 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | BSD missed the boat | Aug 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | and they too, while valuing freedom, rarely speak about freedom | Aug 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | there's a growing push to fork Linux in Disapora | Aug 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | We have lots of chats there, with Alex Oliva as candidate to lead | Aug 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | but to get vendors to supply drivers etc. would not be easy | Aug 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | esp. under gplv3 terms | Aug 11 04:48 |
| cubexyz | BSD is pretty important | Aug 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | it is | Aug 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | but... | Aug 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | if you break down the issues we now have.. | Aug 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | (depending on one's POV) | Aug 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | BSD cannot offer a solution, likely a regression | Aug 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | BSD would be easier than Linux to exploit for bad agenda like spying and DRM | Aug 11 04:50 |
| cubexyz | Linux/Android is where the action is now, but BIND, TCP/IP stack, vi, sendmail, all that came from BSD | Aug 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | tuxmachines also covers BSD, but Guix and Hurd likely have more promise, just not momentum. There's also gnunet | Aug 11 04:51 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: also ssh | Aug 11 04:51 |
| schestowitz | bsd is good at the security side of things, typically, wherever minimalism and encryption are | Aug 11 04:52 |
| schestowitz | oh, BTW, cubexyz... | Aug 11 04:53 |
| schestowitz | wife and I thinking of taking a ferry to Belfast this month, we never visited Ireland | Aug 11 04:53 |
| cubexyz | hmmm, a bit surprising... you're pretty close | Aug 11 04:54 |
| cubexyz | I don't think I ever visited england/scotland | Aug 11 04:54 |
| cubexyz | aside from going to an airport then on to North America | Aug 11 04:55 |
| schestowitz | it's 8 hours by ferry from Liverpool | Aug 11 04:55 |
| schestowitz | I promised not to fly more than once per two years | Aug 11 04:55 |
| schestowitz | (environment) | Aug 11 04:55 |
| cubexyz | I'm not positive Tatu did ssh on BSD, but maybe he did | Aug 11 04:56 |
| schestowitz | Tatu? | Aug 11 04:57 |
| cubexyz | I think there was an early fork... which led to openssh | Aug 11 04:57 |
| cubexyz | Tatu Ylonen, sorry about the lack of proper accents | Aug 11 04:57 |
| schestowitz | never heard of him tbh | Aug 11 04:57 |
| cubexyz | the inventor of ssh :) | Aug 11 04:58 |
| schestowitz | does one need do 'invent' it? | Aug 11 04:58 |
| schestowitz | Surely there's LOADS of prior art | Aug 11 04:58 |
| cubexyz | ok, he went from rsh to ssh | Aug 11 04:59 |
| cubexyz | yes, true | Aug 11 04:59 |
| schestowitz | I mean | Aug 11 04:59 |
| schestowitz | it's a feature addition thing | Aug 11 04:59 |
| schestowitz | port forwarding, tunnels, X | Aug 11 04:59 |
| schestowitz | also forwarding of keys | Aug 11 04:59 |
| cubexyz | he did invent the ssh protocol, which is significant | Aug 11 05:00 |
| schestowitz | the basic concept is that of secure passage of commands over terminal sessions | Aug 11 05:00 |
| schestowitz | the word "invent" seems glorified | Aug 11 05:00 |
| schestowitz | (as it usually is) | Aug 11 05:00 |
| cubexyz | it's not even that old | Aug 11 05:02 |
| schestowitz | by that definition, so many people were inventors for extending something that had existed | Aug 11 05:03 |
| cubexyz | even in 1995 I don't think I ever used ssh | Aug 11 05:03 |
| schestowitz | I found out about it in 2000 | Aug 11 05:03 |
| cubexyz | he's tjssh on twitter | Aug 11 05:05 |
| schestowitz | heh. Twitter | Aug 11 05:05 |
| schestowitz | I only access once a day now to check replies | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | I hope people treat is as a relic, like some do GitHub | Aug 11 05:06 |
| cubexyz | there was some warning from him in 2017 about linux malware via ssh | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | for FOSS these sites need to perish | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | centralised and proprietary | Aug 11 05:06 |
| cubexyz | I never use twitter :) | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | don't | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | I always tell people, don't | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | it seems to be dying anyway | Aug 11 05:06 |
| schestowitz | they turned to ads and spying to make a profit | Aug 11 05:07 |
| schestowitz | for over a decade only losses | Aug 11 05:07 |
| schestowitz | and now they just try to make a little profit while driving the old timers away | Aug 11 05:07 |
| schestowitz | they cut off the APIs | Aug 11 05:07 |
| schestowitz | Why you don't see the old style of tweets showing in this IRC channel anymore, kaniini wrote a bot for pleroma instead | Aug 11 05:07 |
| schestowitz | there's LOTS more they do wrong this year | Aug 11 05:08 |
| MrGreenFriend | what is best twitter alternative? here is a list https://alternativeto.net/software/twitter/?license=opensource | Aug 11 05:08 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2019/07/25/good-old-twitter-is-dead/ | Aug 11 05:08 |
| kaniini | actually the bot works with any activitypub server | Aug 11 05:08 |
| kaniini | not just pleroma :) | Aug 11 05:08 |
| ---schestowitz gives voice to TechrightsBot-tr | Aug 11 05:08 | |
| kaniini | for example, we could make it follow mastodon users. | Aug 11 05:08 |
| schestowitz | kaniini: even better! | Aug 11 05:08 |
| schestowitz | kaniini: zoobab might soon joins pleroma or similar | Aug 11 05:09 |
| kaniini | or GNU Social users, once GNU Social speaks activitypub (not holding my breath) | Aug 11 05:09 |
| schestowitz | he's the best anti-swpats activist | Aug 11 05:09 |
| schestowitz | I hope all the geeks will leave twitter, eventualluy | Aug 11 05:09 |
| kaniini | apparently there is an activitypub module for GNU Social now, but GNU Social maintainer is too busy not caring | Aug 11 05:09 |
| schestowitz | people are there, in Twitter, only for particular users (to be followed) anyway | Aug 11 05:09 |
| kaniini | i guess when all software drops OStatus for it's numerous security flaws, they may care | Aug 11 05:10 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86 said last week something about dumping xml somewhere | Aug 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | and prior to that cutting off gnu social instances? | Aug 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | the IRC channels here used to have bots for identica/statusnet | Aug 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | until Evan moved to pump.io | Aug 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | I still have the code on the server, but it would not accomplish anything anymore... since almost 8 years ago | Aug 11 05:12 |
| schestowitz | Even Twitter keeps breaking its >own< APIs | Aug 11 05:14 |
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| cubexyz | chromebooks were 21% of all laptop sales, so I heard | Aug 11 05:19 |
| cubexyz | so it's not like Linux is going away | Aug 11 05:19 |
| cubexyz | I realize it's not a proper linux, but still... | Aug 11 05:20 |
| cubexyz | Linux is really a DIY OS anyways | Aug 11 05:20 |
| cubexyz | it's not like people love win10 | Aug 11 05:20 |
| cubexyz | people are always asking for alternatives | Aug 11 05:21 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: yes, but that tells you what the problem is | Aug 11 05:21 |
| schestowitz | or rather, where industry takes the 'cons0000mer" | Aug 11 05:21 |
| MrGreenFriend | cubexyz, is it still impossible to wipe chromeOS & install another distro? last i read, u couldnt do that | Aug 11 05:21 |
| schestowitz | chromebooks= DRM | Aug 11 05:21 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/04/26/drm-inside-linux/ | Aug 11 05:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Research Into Who’s Putting DRM Inside Linux | Techrights | Aug 11 05:21 | |
| cubexyz | MrGreenFriend, I did via crouton | Aug 11 05:21 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: you need to swap the bootloader | Aug 11 05:22 |
| cubexyz | so I used both | Aug 11 05:22 |
| schestowitz | seaBIOS | Aug 11 05:22 |
| schestowitz | and on some laptops you need to open the body, voiding the warranty etc. | Aug 11 05:22 |
| cubexyz | if you're really keen you can corebootize any motherboard :) | Aug 11 05:22 |
| MrGreenFriend | cubexyz, so u no longer have ChromeOS installed? (i thought u could only run a 2nd distro, alongside... but that was a while ago- i read that) | Aug 11 05:22 |
| schestowitz | cubexyz: cruoton is not the same | Aug 11 05:22 |
| cubexyz | you have to be really determined though | Aug 11 05:22 |
| kaniini | after you install SeaBIOS you can actually install anything you want | Aug 11 05:23 |
| kaniini | linux, freebsd, even windows | Aug 11 05:23 |
| schestowitz | also, in the classic 2gb ram chromebooks chromeOS becomes a big performance overhead | Aug 11 05:23 |
| cubexyz | yeah, don't use 2 gigs, it's just not enough for chromeos | Aug 11 05:23 |
| schestowitz | so get two of them | Aug 11 05:23 |
| schestowitz | connect over synergy | Aug 11 05:24 |
| schestowitz | chromebooks are very cheap | Aug 11 05:24 |
| cubexyz | seabios is just the 16-bit BIOS part | Aug 11 05:24 |
| cubexyz | you don't even need seabios for the 32-bit OSes | Aug 11 05:25 |
| cubexyz | you need the coreboot/libreboot part | Aug 11 05:25 |
| kaniini | you need seabios to boot OSes that don't support coreboot | Aug 11 05:25 |
| cubexyz | well sure | Aug 11 05:25 |
| kaniini | like freebsd or windows | Aug 11 05:25 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, thx, that is what i was asking. cool , looks like seaBIOS lets u "nuke & pave" ;) http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/chromebook_pixel_linux.txt | Aug 11 05:26 |
| kaniini | my laptop is corebooted but it just boots straight into grub | Aug 11 05:26 |
| cubexyz | I mean you might want freedos or something as well | Aug 11 05:27 |
| cubexyz | or AROS :) | Aug 11 05:27 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: you can recycle old chromebooks that are unused (no longer supported) this week | Aug 11 05:27 |
| schestowitz | *way | Aug 11 05:27 |
| schestowitz | not week | Aug 11 05:27 |
| cubexyz | I don't really like any laptop 100% | Aug 11 05:28 |
| cubexyz | but chromebooks are OK | Aug 11 05:28 |
| schestowitz | Putting something like Mint on them, redistributing these to poor students etc. | Aug 11 05:28 |
| cubexyz | yeah I see now that freebsd used the BIOS for some things | Aug 11 05:31 |
| cubexyz | didn't realize that | Aug 11 05:31 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, looks like the support is for 6.5 years: "The 6.5 years starts when the first device on the platform is released" https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 | Aug 11 05:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-support.google.com | Auto Update policy - Google Chrome Enterprise Help | Aug 11 05:33 | |
| <--slbtc has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Aug 11 05:33 | |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: longer than I thought | Aug 11 05:34 |
| MrGreenFriend | i'm not into chromebooks at all. but i know Schools buy tons of them. i recently saw a good Eben Moglen talk about this. how he helps schools in Africa install GNU/Linux. some pretty funny quotes, do u guys know what video i'm talking about? link? | Aug 11 05:35 |
| cubexyz | in computerland, no one supports anything for long | Aug 11 05:36 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, yeh, that chromeOS link has the exact expiration date of every chromebook model, to the exact month ;) | Aug 11 05:36 |
| cubexyz | hrmmm, my oldest chromebook is the HP 14 I wonder when that expires | Aug 11 05:38 |
| MrGreenFriend | Pavilion Chromebook 14Feb 2018 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | Chromebook 14Jun 2019 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | Chromebook 14 G3Oct 2019 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | Chromebook 14 G4Sep 2021 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | Chromebook 14 G5Nov 2023 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | Chromebook 14A G5Jun 2025 Chromebook x360 14Jun 2024 | Aug 11 05:39 |
| cubexyz | come on google, at least give me 10 years | Aug 11 05:41 |
| MrGreenFriend | cubexyz, why not install another distro on it? | Aug 11 05:42 |
| MrGreenFriend | like one that is supported Forever ;) | Aug 11 05:43 |
| cubexyz | yes if it stays with me then sure | Aug 11 05:44 |
| cubexyz | but the older ones went to other family members | Aug 11 05:44 |
| MrGreenFriend | it is your job to teach ur family other distros ;) | Aug 11 05:45 |
| schestowitz | the chromebooks may still work as laptop | Aug 11 05:45 |
| schestowitz | just wife the bios and put something else on it | Aug 11 05:45 |
| schestowitz | recycling opportunity right there | Aug 11 05:45 |
| schestowitz | some distros sort of mimic chromeos | Aug 11 05:46 |
| schestowitz | does anyone remember cloudOS? | Aug 11 05:46 |
| MrGreenFriend | what is so good about chromeOS, anyway? | Aug 11 05:46 |
| schestowitz | not this one https://www.pcworld.com/article/2041599/hp-launches-cloud-os-for-moonshot-and-other-hp-systems.html | Aug 11 05:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-HP launches Cloud OS for Moonshot and other HP systems | PCWorld | Aug 11 05:46 | |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: it's good for Google | Aug 11 05:46 |
| schestowitz | not for the user | Aug 11 05:46 |
| cubexyz | it's not that chromeos is all that great | Aug 11 05:46 |
| schestowitz | so there are subsidies | Aug 11 05:46 |
| cubexyz | chromebook is just an inexpensive non-Microsoft computer | Aug 11 05:47 |
| schestowitz | exactly | Aug 11 05:47 |
| MrGreenFriend | yeh, subsidies.. Getting discount is the only good thing about it. Then Nuke & Pave ;) | Aug 11 05:47 |
| cubexyz | ASUS did that Google TV thing | Aug 11 05:49 |
| cubexyz | there are other examples | Aug 11 05:49 |
| schestowitz | it's designed to keep people 'around' Google | Aug 11 05:49 |
| schestowitz | feeding data to this one single GAFAM born | Aug 11 05:49 |
| schestowitz | borg | Aug 11 05:50 |
| schestowitz | afaik, if you use crutons nothing gets relayed through Google, they just control the system with unsupervised system updates | Aug 11 05:50 |
| cubexyz | in the pass there was that Hitachi BeOS computer | Aug 11 05:50 |
| cubexyz | so I do try to check things out | Aug 11 05:50 |
| cubexyz | s/pass/past/ | Aug 11 05:50 |
| cubexyz | you can see how things get strangled in infancy | Aug 11 05:51 |
| <--MrGreenFriend (~MrGreenFr@gateway/tor-sasl/mrgreenfriend) has left #techrights ("Leaving") | Aug 11 06:03 | |
| -->MrGreenFriend (~MrGreenFr@gateway/tor-sasl/mrgreenfriend) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 06:03 | |
| schestowitz | Perhaps we can take techrights to the 'next level' by making daily links partly a purifier of news in this age of noise, spam, and 5MB to read a 5-paragraph article. | Aug 11 06:04 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/08/11/linux-being-changed/ | Aug 11 06:04 |
| schestowitz | we already have some pieces in place for this... | Aug 11 06:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux is Not Winning, It’s Changing (or Being Changed) | Techrights | Aug 11 06:04 | |
| cubexyz | oh yeah now I remember... the other option was buying these barebone computers without an OS | Aug 11 06:05 |
| cubexyz | MSI Cubi, ASUS Vivomini, Intel NUC, Gigabyte Brix, Zotac ZBOX and Shuttle mini | Aug 11 06:05 |
| cubexyz | if I remember right | Aug 11 06:05 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, wow that is a pretty depressing article.. i think we can start by convincing cubexyz to wipe ChromeOS off of his chromebook ;) | Aug 11 06:09 |
| schestowitz | it's not the forremost threat | Aug 11 06:10 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, i have some other topics for u, if u ever need more ideas ;) | Aug 11 06:10 |
| schestowitz | first of all, chromeos is based on egntoo gnu linux | Aug 11 06:10 |
| schestowitz | second, he doesn't relay data through google | Aug 11 06:10 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: yes, by all means | Aug 11 06:11 |
| schestowitz | please pass them on | Aug 11 06:11 |
| schestowitz | we decided 1.5 months ago to do more articles and less "tweets" etc. | Aug 11 06:11 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/07/21/twitter-is-unverified-hearsay/ | Aug 11 06:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Tweets Are Not Journalism But Succinct Unverified Hearsay; Time to Treat Them Accordingly | Techrights | Aug 11 06:11 | |
| schestowitz | client having ddos attacks at the moment | Aug 11 06:12 |
| schestowitz | likely from iranian gov./military | Aug 11 06:12 |
| schestowitz | they use cloudflare for protection | Aug 11 06:12 |
| schestowitz | and I need to log into that nasty company's site, CF | Aug 11 06:12 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, quotes of 'experts' saying that WhatsApp,(and other closed-source apps) are E2EE. -- what is the correct term, anyway? "closed source E2EE", "Purported E2EE", "Pinky Swear Encryption", etc?? | Aug 11 06:13 |
| schestowitz | ah, that.... | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | I post short things about it | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | there's not much to do a long article about | Aug 11 06:14 |
| kaniini | at one time whatsapp was audited as being E2EE, but now facebook claims they can read the messages for 'advertising' | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | you know FB has the 'private' kets | Aug 11 06:14 |
| kaniini | that may happen on the device itself though | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | *kays | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | *keys | Aug 11 06:14 |
| schestowitz | FBI never complained about Facebook because it gets what it wants from them | Aug 11 06:15 |
| schestowitz | they distort the word Linux | Aug 11 06:15 |
| schestowitz | (e.g. WSL, i.e. Vista10) | Aug 11 06:15 |
| schestowitz | now e2e means "only facebook (or other PRISM giant) can read it" | Aug 11 06:15 |
| MrGreenFriend | it will be very interesting to have those quotes, when WhatsApp backdoor is leaked/discovered (because technically, it is still possible that WA is E2EE, we just dont know either way, right?) | Aug 11 06:16 |
| schestowitz | FOSS means proprietary software + openwashing (we threw some library on Microsoft ShitHub) | Aug 11 06:16 |
| schestowitz | kaniini: I read that after the audit they released a .0.1 version with the back doors added | Aug 11 06:17 |
| MrGreenFriend | it is still important to keep the real definitions, rather than have them misappropriated | Aug 11 06:17 |
| schestowitz | so what's audited isn't what's distributed, e.g. as Android binary blobb | Aug 11 06:17 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: is there much to say about that really? A leak to that effect would be nice, then you can at least present a 'smoking gun' | Aug 11 06:18 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, my point is to narrow it down, to who calls it the correct term. "purported E2EE" or something simlilar | Aug 11 06:19 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, similar to ur http://techrights.org/credibility-index/ | Aug 11 06:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Free Software Credibility Index | Techrights | Aug 11 06:20 | |
| MrGreenFriend | but ur right , it is not a 'big' story, at least until the is a 'smoking gun' | Aug 11 06:21 |
| schestowitz | the ddos from iran continues | Aug 11 06:28 |
| schestowitz | had to use CF for that site, not my choice... : | Aug 11 06:28 |
| schestowitz | When turned off, Attack Mode has multiple restrictions levels for access. Medium seems to work OK. | Aug 11 06:28 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: ok, back from a work chore... | Aug 11 06:30 |
| schestowitz | (sorry, got distracted) | Aug 11 06:30 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: can hardly think of how this is to be turned into more than a paragraph without being repetitive unless new material lands on our lap | Aug 11 06:31 |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, what do u think is the best term for closed-source E2EE? | Aug 11 06:32 |
| schestowitz | (we try to publish unique things, no point doing articles like "Mint X released", "Sailfish OS looks for developers" etc. when you can just link to the original and add a few remarks, which aren't even corrective. That's what Tux Machines is for. | Aug 11 06:32 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: I use some terms for these | Aug 11 06:32 |
| schestowitz | but not directly the concept as a whole | Aug 11 06:33 |
| schestowitz | there's "bug doors" | Aug 11 06:33 |
| schestowitz | there's also PRISMware | Aug 11 06:33 |
| schestowitz | pseudo-encryption | Aug 11 06:33 |
| schestowitz | there are also strands and themes like: | Aug 11 06:33 |
| schestowitz | making it look like an accident, preparing the excuses in advance | Aug 11 06:34 |
| schestowitz | using cipher cult figures like Merlin (?) for faked endorsement | Aug 11 06:34 |
| schestowitz | like FB used Stamos | Aug 11 06:34 |
| MrGreenFriend | i like the term "Pinky Swear Encryption" | Aug 11 06:36 |
| MrGreenFriend | or "Pinky Promise Encryption" | Aug 11 06:38 |
| schestowitz | incident at work | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | No need to relay the codes to us, we can get these directly as well, as we just did. :-) | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | We monitor the site closely 24/7 (all year long) and we detect these downtimes within a minute or two, so we can enable restrictive access requirements upon need/demand. Yesterday it took a while to assure ourselves it had been caused by DDOS attacks, whereupon we took the action of 'outsourcing' verification to the CDN, Cloudflare. It uses an extra step to weed out abusive (automated) page requests. | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | Kind regards, | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | -- | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | Dr. Roy Schestowitz | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 06:39 |
| schestowitz | you can really see there how cloudflare helps the US Army | Aug 11 06:40 |
| schestowitz | Against the Iranian Army or whatever | Aug 11 06:40 |
| schestowitz | so imperialistic | Aug 11 06:40 |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: we rarely cover privacy except in daily links (picks) | Aug 11 06:40 |
| schestowitz | in recent years we did about 10,000 articles on patents | Aug 11 06:41 |
| schestowitz | until Alice effect killed software patents around 2017 or 2018 | Aug 11 06:41 |
| schestowitz | Coons and Tillis won't bring them back, they try this every summer for 3 years now | Aug 11 06:41 |
| schestowitz | So now the EPO is the main problem | Aug 11 06:41 |
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation became a BIG, BIG topic this year | Aug 11 06:42 |
| schestowitz | as we got some whispers from insiders and were able to expose the gory stuff | Aug 11 06:42 |
| schestowitz | LF is now in 'damage control' mode, they lost all legitimacy with the community (maybe not Big Corporate sponsors) | Aug 11 06:42 |
| MrGreenFriend | wtf, i just found this... doesn't make sense. if the OS has all the dependencies, then WhatsApp should run correctly https://faq.whatsapp.com/en/android/26000005/?category=5245235 | Aug 11 06:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-faq.whatsapp.com | WhatsApp FAQ - Rooted phones and custom ROMs | Aug 11 06:43 | |
| schestowitz | WhatsApp runs correctly when it runs for PRISM | Aug 11 06:46 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Skype_is_Spy_Campaign | Aug 11 06:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Skype is Spy Campaign - Techrights | Aug 11 06:46 | |
| schestowitz | Skype was added to PRISM shortly after Microsoft had bought it | Aug 11 06:47 |
| schestowitz | A year before Snowden leaks http://techrights.org/2012/11/06/microsoft-exposes-ids/ | Aug 11 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is Breaking the Law by Giving Skype Data to Private Firms, Getting People’s Data (e.g. Web History) Through Facebook | Techrights | Aug 11 06:47 | |
| schestowitz | also http://techrights.org/2012/07/28/skype-hostile-to-human-rights/ | Aug 11 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | New Reports Confirm That Microsoft Skype is Spying on Users, Sharing Personal Data | Techrights | Aug 11 06:47 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2012/06/20/skype-and-nsa/ | Aug 11 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Skype in Microsoft’s Hands Gives NSA Access to International Phonecalls | Techrights | Aug 11 06:47 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2012/07/23/surveillance-in-skype/ | Aug 11 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Skype Interception Campaign | Techrights | Aug 11 06:47 | |
| schestowitz | 2011: http://techrights.org/2011/06/30/informing-overseas-governments/ | Aug 11 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is Listening to Everyone | Techrights | Aug 11 06:48 | |
| schestowitz | you can generalise this to include FB/WhatsApp | Aug 11 06:48 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2011/06/28/privacy-risk-at-microsoft/ | Aug 11 06:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | All Your Communications Belong to Microsoft | Techrights | Aug 11 06:48 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2012/07/01/conversations-and-secret-updates/ | Aug 11 06:48 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2011/09/08/microsoft-spying/ | Aug 11 06:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10521 milliseconds ( status 0 @ http://techrights.org/2012/07/01/conversations-and-secret-updates/ ) | Aug 11 06:48 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | When Microsoft Tracks Identities and Conversations | Techrights | Aug 11 06:48 | |
| schestowitz | BTW, MrGreenFriend, Jacob Appelbaum and many others linked to this wiki page | Aug 11 06:49 |
| schestowitz | "This page has been accessed 93,817 times." | Aug 11 06:49 |
| schestowitz | we do terabytes per month now | Aug 11 06:50 |
| schestowitz | this morning a client at work has a DDOS issue | Aug 11 06:50 |
| schestowitz | it exposes violations in Iran | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:43] <schestowitz> my general position is that war would be horrendous and must be avoided | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> At the same time, highlighting human rights abuses in Iran - as in any country - is also important | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> seems they don't want sites to broadcast these abuses, fearing it could manufacture consent for war | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> traffic level for the past 24 hours: | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> Unique Visitors | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> 20,825 | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> Total Requests | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> 896,183 | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> Percent Cached | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> 89.35% | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> Total Data Served | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> 40 GB | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> Data Cached | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | [06:44] <schestowitz> (I won't name the site) | Aug 11 06:51 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/sonoble/status/1160425821351268353 | Aug 11 06:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@sonoble: What an odd write up about the @linuxfoundation https://t.co/UsLgoUaE94 I know Jim pays himself an immense amount o… https://t.co/hlLow90qZT | Aug 11 06:52 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | The Zemlins Are Closer to Apple and Microsoft Than to Linux | Techrights | Aug 11 06:52 | |
| schestowitz | "What an odd write up about the @linuxfoundation http://techrights.org/2019/08/09/we-are-cattle-to-zemlin/ … I know Jim pays himself an immense amount of money, but the rest doesn't make a lot of sense." | Aug 11 06:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@sonoble: What an odd write up about the @linuxfoundation https://t.co/UsLgoUaE94 I know Jim pays himself an immense amount o… https://t.co/hlLow90qZT | Aug 11 06:52 | |
| schestowitz | http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/36627/ | Aug 11 06:52 |
| schestowitz | "And thus preserve the history of Linux Journal." | Aug 11 06:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-LXer: Hopefully they will allow the site to be archived: Linux Journal Ceases Publication: An Awkward Goodbye | Aug 11 06:53 | |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 06:53 |
| schestowitz | Just noticing, odd placement for your comment. That is, not linked to the story of Linux Journal's closing. | Aug 11 06:53 |
| schestowitz | From what I have seen, the reason they are trying to keep the site up for a few weeks is to give those archiving a chance to complete the task. Others are hoping a white knight will appear and save the site, not the publication they are not that bereft from reality. | Aug 11 06:53 |
| schestowitz | Perhaps Bob, could move this thread to the proper story. | Aug 11 06:53 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 06:53 |
| schestowitz | "The thread has been moved." | Aug 11 06:53 |
| MrGreenFriend | what is Jacob Appelbaum doing now? iirc, he was going back to school for Math PhD or something? | Aug 11 06:56 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Aug 11 06:57 |
| schestowitz | keeping head low | Aug 11 06:57 |
| schestowitz | he tried making a twitter comeback | Aug 11 06:57 |
| schestowitz | didn't work | Aug 11 06:57 |
| schestowitz | he also has been branded sexual predator | Aug 11 06:58 |
| schestowitz | so all the key foundations and org ostracise him | Aug 11 06:58 |
| schestowitz | EFF, FPF, Debian, Tor... | Aug 11 06:58 |
| schestowitz | just bring up the subject won't help | Aug 11 07:02 |
| schestowitz | as it would only remind people of the accusations, which are inaccurate and mostly anonymous | Aug 11 07:02 |
| schestowitz | Jen Robinson, Assange's lawyers, asked me to not bring up how tabloid tried to smear her | Aug 11 07:02 |
| schestowitz | and it merely reminded people of these smear, so I think it's equally applicable to Jake | Aug 11 07:03 |
| schestowitz | the b33f: | Aug 11 07:03 |
| schestowitz | 1. don't bring up things that tell something to people who might not know about those things otherwise (when those things are bad | Aug 11 07:03 |
| schestowitz | 2. better to refute without linking; if someone demands the link, send it to that person alone | Aug 11 07:04 |
| schestowitz | 3. rebuttals can feed trolls | Aug 11 07:04 |
| schestowitz | (if not with traffic then it feeds their message | Aug 11 07:04 |
| schestowitz | and this, in turn, encourages more of the same) | Aug 11 07:04 |
| schestowitz | [18:40] <schestowitz> https://twitter.com/brianfagioli/status/1159919821510848512 | Aug 11 07:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@brianfagioli: @schestowitz It’s a different thing entirely. Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on Earth. They can co… https://t.co/iv4BzoE9d8 | Aug 11 07:05 | |
| schestowitz | [18:40] [Notice] -TechrightsBN to #boycottnovell- @brianfagioli: @schestowitz It’s a different thing entirely. Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on Earth. They can co… https://t.co/iv4BzoE9d8 | Aug 11 07:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@brianfagioli: @schestowitz It’s a different thing entirely. Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on Earth. They can co… https://t.co/iv4BzoE9d8 | Aug 11 07:05 | |
| schestowitz | [18:40] [Notice] -TechrightsBN to #boycottnovell- @brianfagioli: @schestowitz It’s a different thing entirely. Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on Earth. They can co… https://t.co/iv4BzoE9d8 | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | [18:40] <schestowitz> "It’s a different thing entirely. Microsoft is one of the most valuable companies on Earth. They can continue MSDN mag going forever even at a loss if they want. They are choosing to end MSDN mag. The Linux Journal folks are making no such choice. They are being forced to close." | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | [18:40] <schestowitz> Complete and utter illogical nonsense. | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | ^^ latest example | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | he called GNU/Linux user names... | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | Phoronix did something similar | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | yesterday BetaNews did a piece about that too | Aug 11 07:05 |
| schestowitz | saying Linux sucks etc. | Aug 11 07:06 |
| schestowitz | because of that RAM thing from Phoronix/Artem | Aug 11 07:06 |
| schestowitz | they didn't bother comparing it to other OSes | Aug 11 07:06 |
| schestowitz | They're 'junk food" journalism | Aug 11 07:06 |
| schestowitz | In Fagilo's case, it seems like garbage in, garbage out thing... he looks like he eats loads of junk food | Aug 11 07:07 |
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| cubexyz | heh heh | Aug 11 07:31 |
| cubexyz | linux isn't junk | Aug 11 07:31 |
| cubexyz | I keep all my old 2.2, 2.4 kernels though | Aug 11 07:32 |
| cubexyz | still learning new things about them | Aug 11 07:32 |
| schestowitz | Games today: | Aug 11 07:34 |
| schestowitz | August 11 14:00 Leicester City ? - ? Wolverhampton Wanderers | Aug 11 07:34 |
| schestowitz | August 11 14:00 Newcastle United ? - ? Arsenal | Aug 11 07:34 |
| schestowitz | August 11 16:30 Manchester United ? - ? Chelsea | Aug 11 07:34 |
| <--acer-box has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Aug 11 07:34 | |
| cubexyz | still learning new things about kde 3.5.10 for that matter | Aug 11 07:34 |
| schestowitz | I guess old RHEL with 10 year support backports still | Aug 11 07:34 |
| schestowitz | Linux 2.6.x, maybe even 2.4.x still | Aug 11 07:34 |
| cubexyz | hmmm, 2.2 is good for small memory computers | Aug 11 07:35 |
| schestowitz | does anyone still patch it? | Aug 11 07:35 |
| schestowitz | maybe for unconnected machines it's OK | Aug 11 07:35 |
| cubexyz | good question | Aug 11 07:36 |
| schestowitz | "won't be something big [and] professional like gnu" and then it gets more bloated than anything gnu | Aug 11 07:36 |
| cubexyz | I'm having some trouble with the networking on old games, it's a real bother | Aug 11 07:37 |
| cubexyz | normally I wouldn go into the 2.2 kernel | Aug 11 07:37 |
| cubexyz | wouldn't | Aug 11 07:38 |
| cubexyz | just run it on very old hardware... retro computing | Aug 11 07:38 |
| cubexyz | bl3 was 2.2.26 | Aug 11 07:41 |
| cubexyz | zaurus was 2.4.6 | Aug 11 07:41 |
| cubexyz | fc1 was 2.4.22 | Aug 11 07:42 |
| cubexyz | darkstar was a slackware derivative.. that was the first linux I saw | Aug 11 07:43 |
| cubexyz | I'd have no problem running bl3 on the internet | Aug 11 07:46 |
| cubexyz | I just wouldn't do anything important on it | Aug 11 07:46 |
| cubexyz | you can imagine how painful surfing the net would be anyways | Aug 11 07:47 |
| schestowitz | has jzemlin not tweeted for about a month? | Aug 11 07:55 |
| schestowitz | he blocked even tuxmachines :-) https://twitter.com/jzemlin | Aug 11 07:56 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mobile.twitter.com | jzemlin (@jzemlin) on Twitter | Aug 11 07:56 | |
| schestowitz | "You’re blocked" | Aug 11 07:56 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/GamerGeekNews/status/1158608511250489344 | Aug 11 07:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@GamerGeekNews: @MichellBasler @tuxmachines I'm a similar age and similar experience through school, except we had BBC's and eventu… https://t.co/ZKyHSHOM7f | Aug 11 07:57 | |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | I'm a similar age and similar experience through school, except we had BBC's and eventually Atari St's before I picked up Pascal at college | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | I've been working with stats, analysis, and machine learning software since, Linux for fun  | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | 1 | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | 1 | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 11 07:57 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/MichellBasler/status/1158615792444833792 | Aug 11 07:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@MichellBasler: @GamerGeekNews @tuxmachines Oh wow! I had the Atari when it first came out as a home console. We got Pac-Man and a Pac-Man t shirt 😂 | Aug 11 07:57 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/GamerGeekNews/status/1158593969183268864 | Aug 11 07:58 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@GamerGeekNews: @MichellBasler I love @tuxmachines and learn heaps from the posts there 😁 | Aug 11 07:58 | |
| MrGreenFriend | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6zps39/linux_foundation_director_runsmac_os | Aug 11 08:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.reddit.com | Linux Foundation Director runs...Mac OS?! : linux | Aug 11 08:14 | |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, is this really true that Jim Zemlin, Linux Foundation Director, runs MacOS? | Aug 11 08:15 |
| schestowitz | worse: | Aug 11 08:17 |
| schestowitz | along with hypePad | Aug 11 08:17 |
| schestowitz | no indication any of this has changed since | Aug 11 08:18 |
| schestowitz | he'd be the first to signal a change (id he had initiated any) | Aug 11 08:18 |
| schestowitz | Many of his colleagues use Windows http://techrights.org/2019/07/17/we-are-the-windows-powered-linux-foundation/ | Aug 11 08:18 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux Foundation Apparently Celebrates Sysadmin Day With a Microsoft Windows Site! | Techrights | Aug 11 08:18 | |
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| -->oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 08:43 | |
| <--pidgin_log has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Aug 11 08:57 | |
| MrGreenFriend | i was at a pretty big Linux[LUG] event, and one of the speakers brought up a MacBook. People started yelling. The FIRST words out of his mouth were, "Hey, don't worry-- i'm running Linux. I just like the Mac hardware" and he showed us it was obviously Linux. -- if he was really running MacOS; he would have been boo'd/heckled offstage, for sure. | Aug 11 09:05 |
| schestowitz | kaniini: viera is offline | Aug 11 09:07 |
| schestowitz | [Sunday, August 11, 2019] [04:13:00 AM] |Quit| viera (~viera@2602:ffdb:100:1:fc89:b1ff:fe87:426e) has left this server (*.net *.split). | Aug 11 09:08 |
| schestowitz | netsplit | Aug 11 09:08 |
| <--x003n (~x003n@unaffiliated/x003n) has left #techrights ("Leaving") | Aug 11 09:09 | |
| -->viera (~viera@2602:ffdb:100:1:fc89:b1ff:fe87:426e) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 09:09 | |
| schestowitz | kaniini: thanks mate!! | Aug 11 09:09 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Development: Usability & Productivity, Kate and Krita http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126817 [https://pleroma.site/objects/98fd08f0-a0e4-4369-9338-bb4ff9999221] | Aug 11 09:21 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126818 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a874e52f-fb3e-44c8-b7f4-6cdd235e6aa0] | Aug 11 09:33 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #DragonFly 5.6.2 tagged http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126819 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f5cd4e0a-a746-468d-93ba-f26dc9811e17] | Aug 11 09:37 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What has to happen with Unix virtual memory when you have no swap space http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126820 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9889a549-7d9a-468e-ae0a-a60a778df69f] | Aug 11 09:42 | |
| MrGreenFriend | here is good video on Linux RAM Compression -- zswap -- z3fold. https://youtube.com/watch?v=f3k4cns0e1c | Aug 11 09:56 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Allocators for Compressed Pages: In-depth Comparison with z3fold in Focus - Vitaly Wool, Consultant - YouTube | Aug 11 09:56 | |
| schestowitz | we need compressed web pages, MrGreenFriend | Aug 11 09:58 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/08/10/making-the-web-light/ | Aug 11 09:58 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights Coding Projects: Making the Web Light Again | Techrights | Aug 11 09:58 | |
| MrGreenFriend | zswap with lz4+z3fold really does help a lot. | Aug 11 09:59 |
| MrGreenFriend | check what is installed on ur system: grep -R . /sys/module/zswap/parameters; sudo dmesg|grep zswap; sudo grep -R . /sys/kernel/debug/zswap | Aug 11 10:00 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Best Accessories to Get for Your Raspberry Pi 4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126821 [https://pleroma.site/objects/109b9bf7-ceac-4762-929c-bb9dbf1a3faf] | Aug 11 10:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #GNU Radio 3.8.0.0 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126822 #freesw [https://pleroma.site/objects/e2a0ff0d-df4f-4ff3-9738-cf0d09e681f1] | Aug 11 10:14 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME: GNOME Shell & Mutter, Gnome MPV (Celluloid), Savestates Manager http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126823 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1b2eeef7-c9d1-4133-8897-57735a49a180] | Aug 11 10:19 | |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2019/08/07/linux-ram-rant/ | Aug 11 10:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » I Never Had a Machine With More Than 2GB of RAM. But Phoronix Portrays GNU/Linux as Sucking on Memory Management. | Aug 11 10:20 | |
| schestowitz | some more comments in http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126708#comment-21284 | Aug 11 10:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | I Never Had a Machine With More Than 2GB of RAM. But Phoronix Portrays GNU/Linux as Sucking on Memory Management. | Tux Machines | Aug 11 10:20 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Huawei launches smart TV running on HarmonyOS http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126824 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b5e5cac5-b7a3-4b26-bfd1-735a0534fde6] | Aug 11 10:24 | |
| MrGreenFriend | schestowitz, yeh, i read both those before. there are also 16 pages of comments here: https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1118164-yes-linux-does-bad-in-low-ram-memory-pressure-situations-on-the-desktop | Aug 11 10:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Yes, Linux Does Bad In Low RAM / Memory Pressure Situations On The Desktop - Phoronix Forums | Aug 11 10:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: X.Org Server and Compression Benchmark http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126825 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d49e0243-2248-4acc-9cab-2baf8ae9686d] | Aug 11 10:40 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Federico Mena-Quintero: On responsible vulnerability disclosure http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126826 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6bc4167c-5f74-4ee5-83cc-c750307e9943] | Aug 11 10:48 | |
| schestowitz | MrGreenFriend: I saw these when there were 80 comments | Aug 11 10:49 |
| schestowitz | poor phoronix | Aug 11 10:49 |
| schestowitz | slow news month | Aug 11 10:49 |
| schestowitz | so a headline with a generalisation and bad grammar | Aug 11 10:50 |
| MrGreenFriend | reading them now. the main article is silly because he didn't compare it to Windows/Mac. However, Linux can always be improved, so i like to be positive. e.g. u can check ur runnin services here, and disable ones u don't need: systemctl --type service --state running | Aug 11 10:51 |
| MrGreenFriend | https://www.linux.com/learn/cleaning-your-linux-startup-process | Aug 11 10:51 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cleaning Up Your Linux Startup Process | Linux.com | The source for Linux information | Aug 11 10:51 | |
| MrGreenFriend | i disabled these: sudo systemctl disable minidlna virtualbox postfix glances cups cups-browsed --now | Aug 11 10:53 |
| MrGreenFriend | i masked (stronger than 'disable')these: sudo systemctl mask pppd-dns.service ModemManager.service --now | Aug 11 10:55 |
| MrGreenFriend | also, helpful, but misleading because the 'times' here are not necessarily slowing your boot down. e.g. they could be waiting for another service to finish. $ systemd-analyze blame | Aug 11 10:59 |
| schestowitz | yeah, seems misguided perhaps | Aug 11 11:00 |
| schestowitz | I don't suppose it's polling for these services all the time but on demand | Aug 11 11:00 |
| schestowitz | (but it's systemd, so never assume good coding... over a million lines of code) | Aug 11 11:01 |
| MrGreenFriend | https://askubuntu.com/questions/10290/how-do-i-improve-boot-speed/808934#808934 | Aug 11 11:03 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-askubuntu.com | startup - How do I improve boot speed? - Ask Ubuntu | Aug 11 11:03 | |
| MrGreenFriend | funny SystemD GIF :) https://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/925/966/8d2.gif | Aug 11 11:04 |
| schestowitz | > "techrights and similar/related articles" | Aug 11 11:12 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: really comparing low memory presure between OS you get into many different effects. | Aug 11 11:12 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:12 |
| schestowitz | > want to add this as a subforum to my forum, unless you take issue with that for some reason. | Aug 11 11:12 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:12 |
| schestowitz | > http://softwarefreedom.jcink.net/index.php | Aug 11 11:12 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-softwarefreedom.jcink.net | free media alliance | Aug 11 11:12 | |
| schestowitz | Go for it. Sounds good. | Aug 11 11:12 |
| oiaohm | One of the worse things you can do to Linux kernel is run without swap. | Aug 11 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel for particular data structures depends on pushing the structure to swap to relocate it in memory/defrag it. | Aug 11 11:13 |
| schestowitz | depends how much RAM you have | Aug 11 11:13 |
| oiaohm | No | Aug 11 11:13 |
| schestowitz | I have seen swapless systems | Aug 11 11:14 |
| oiaohm | amount of ram makes no different. | Aug 11 11:14 |
| schestowitz | oh, I see | Aug 11 11:14 |
| schestowitz | yes, defragging | Aug 11 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter the system will stall out due to structure fragmentation. | Aug 11 11:14 |
| schestowitz | I think I saw paging even when memory usage was minimal | Aug 11 11:14 |
| MrGreenFriend | here is a list of packages u can optionally remove: https://github.com/terminalforlife/Extra/blob/master/simplify-ubuntu | Aug 11 11:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Extra/simplify-ubuntu at master · terminalforlife/Extra · GitHub | Aug 11 11:14 | |
| oiaohm | If you don't have swap. | Aug 11 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Like you might have like 16 megs of ram base swap. That will keep the Linux kernel happy. | Aug 11 11:15 |
| oiaohm | With all preferences set that nothing else uses it. | Aug 11 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Basically the Linux kernel need some swap. If your applications need it that another matter. | Aug 11 11:16 |
| schestowitz | that explains some things I saw | Aug 11 11:16 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, yeh, running without swap is silly. i would never even try it. another reason the article is dumb | Aug 11 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Really the plains with the Linux kernel is at some point to fix the structure handling in kernel memory that it does not need swap. | Aug 11 11:18 |
| oiaohm | But that does not exist yet. | Aug 11 11:18 |
| oiaohm | freebsd and bsd kernels like that you techically can run without swap because they don't have the structure fragmentation problem. | Aug 11 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Not like freebsd instant OOM killer is fun either. | Aug 11 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Really the idea that disabling swap on Linux makes the problem appear sooner is not exactly true it make the problem of Linux kernel cannot defrag particular structures without swap turn up normally before memory presure problems. | Aug 11 11:20 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/08/06/fake-bargains/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/07/26/story-of-eric-lundgren/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Eric Lundgren Case and Similar High-Profile Plea ‘Bargains’ (Aaron Swartz and Marcus Hutchins) | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/07/27/microsoft-windows-injustice/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft’s Legal Attacks on Eric Lundgren Demonstrate There’s No ‘New’ Microsoft Except a Super-Vicious, Law-Twisting Thug | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Windows Puts Recyclers Like Eric Lundgren in Prison and Patients Six Feet Under the Ground | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/08/03/microsoft-vs-heroes/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/08/04/reducing-microsoft-profits/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/08/04/righttorepair/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Put an Innocent, Heroic Man in Prison. Then Microsoft Ran Away. | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 11 11:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://techrights.org/2019/08/05/satya-nadella-fleeing-lundgren/ | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Being Microsoft, Bullying Everyone Who Reduces Microsoft’s Profits | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft’s War on the Right to Repair (One’s Own Computers) Makes Lundgren an ‘Enemy’ to Microsoft | Techrights | Aug 11 11:22 | |
| schestowitz | waiting for more material to carry on | Aug 11 11:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Damage Control Mode: Satya Nadella Fleeing Lundgren After Realising What Microsoft Had Done | Techrights | Aug 11 11:23 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: part of that Eric Lundgren case is why you don't want to end up in a trademark court. | Aug 11 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Very limited defence options and horrible excessive punishments. | Aug 11 11:30 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, what the downside to a higher 'max_pool_percent' in Zswap? the default is only 20% Why so low? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Zswap | Aug 11 11:34 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.archlinux.org | Zswap - ArchWiki | Aug 11 11:34 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: zswap has is problems. Remember you are compressing waht you are storing in zswap so a swap thrash between zwap and ram can possiblely eat you out of CPU processing time. | Aug 11 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Just processing zswap. | Aug 11 11:36 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: so right workloads you can go a lot higher with zswap but the wrong workload you really will not be wanting more than 20% zswap. | Aug 11 11:37 |
| MrGreenFriend | huh, i though LZ4 on modern CPU's is superrrrr fast? | Aug 11 11:37 |
| schestowitz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9b5hcaABk | Aug 11 11:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Linux Journal has shut down - YouTube | Aug 11 11:37 | |
| <--amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Aug 11 11:39 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://github.com/lz4/lz4 Its not quite as fast as you would think. compress 780 MB/s decompress 4970 MB/s for L4 vs 13700 MB/s in raw memory. Remember you have just burned though a lot of cpu time. | Aug 11 11:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - lz4/lz4: Extremely Fast Compression algorithm | Aug 11 11:41 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: you also have to put this head to head with having a swap partition on a pcie 4.0 nvme 5000MB/s read 4400MB write. | Aug 11 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Yes zswap helps when your storage media is slow. | Aug 11 11:42 |
| -->amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.39.107) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 11:44 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: https://ilr.law.uiowa.edu/print/volume-101-issue-5/against-fair-use-the-case-for-a-genericness-defense-in-expressive-trademark-uses/ This here gets into the horrible fact that when you go into trademark law fair usage defence basically vaporises. | Aug 11 11:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ilr.law.uiowa.edu | Against Fair Use: The Case for a Genericness Defense in Expressive Trademark Uses - Iowa Law Review - The University of Iowa College of Law | Aug 11 11:45 | |
| oiaohm | You want to be done for patent or copyright infringement. Patent you have prior art arguement to attempt to defend self. Copyright you have fair usage defence. Trademark you are basically screwed. | Aug 11 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Trademark only arguement is that it is not a trademark. | Aug 11 11:46 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm> Yes zswap helps when your storage media is slow." awww, yes, that makes sense. I don't have SSD, so that's why it made such a big difference for me! | Aug 11 11:47 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: you have remember ram is still a lot faster than zswap. | Aug 11 11:47 |
| oiaohm | and a lot less cpu burning. | Aug 11 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Its a trade off between speeds here. | Aug 11 11:48 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, yeh, for NVME, zswap makes less sense. thanks for explaining :) | Aug 11 11:48 |
| oiaohm | I did have a few ram drives at one point they were great giving a old machine a very fast 4 G swap partition. | Aug 11 11:48 |
| oiaohm | When you had those zswap was also pointless. | Aug 11 11:49 |
| *MrGreenFriend is still waiting a little bit longer for computer prices to drop, before upgrading :) | Aug 11 11:49 | |
| oiaohm | NVME depends on what one if zswap makes sense or not. | Aug 11 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Some are not great in the performance department. Heck some really cheap NVME are not really good at storing your data either. | Aug 11 11:50 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: I am also lining up to upgrade. I am most likely going to have 3 to 4 machines to build for self. | Aug 11 11:54 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, u mean the QLC? some reviews say they are great, others say they are garbage.hahah what do u think about this drive? 2TB NVME $185 https://www.newegg.com/intel-660p-series-2tb/p/N82E16820167461 | Aug 11 11:54 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1 - Newegg.com | Aug 11 11:54 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: have not played with them enough to really have a solid option. | Aug 11 11:56 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: I have been using a lot of AData as builds recently have been price senstive. | Aug 11 11:57 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adata-xpg-sx8200-pro-ssd,5955-2.html The Adata for the price is really not bad. | Aug 11 12:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tomshardware.com | 1TB Performance Results - Adata XPG SX8200 Pro Review: Go Pro on a Budget | Aug 11 12:00 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adata-xpg-sx8200-pro-ssd,5955.html Looking at this page the 200 TBW(terabytes written rating of the 660p is a little low. | Aug 11 12:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tomshardware.com | Adata XPG SX8200 Pro Review: Go Pro on a Budget - Tom's Hardware | Aug 11 12:10 | |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, for game loading times', what is the bottleneck? CPU, GPU, RAM? because it is not the SSD, as that chart shows (SATA MX500 is right up there with NVME) ^ | Aug 11 12:10 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: that ADATA at 640 TBW I class as scraping bottom of barrel. Corsair and Samsung are all over the 1000TBW. | Aug 11 12:11 |
| oiaohm | those intel 660p are only 200TBW. | Aug 11 12:11 |
| oiaohm | To be correct me at bottom of barrel would be using WD Black 1TB at 600TBW. | Aug 11 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Same with some of the lower samsungs. | Aug 11 12:13 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: you have to remember a lot of games were optimised for slower hdd stuff. So their IO bottleneck has always been limited. | Aug 11 12:14 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm, yeh, i think intel 660p, is the only QLC in that test, right? | Aug 11 12:14 |
| oiaohm | I have not dug deep into ram types. | Aug 11 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Really being a 200TBW rating in a 600TBW or better market kind of explains why I have not any. | Aug 11 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Also explains why people say they seam to wear down in performance sooner. | Aug 11 12:16 |
| oiaohm | That kind of expected when the item is rated to be rewritten somewhere betwene 1/3 to 1/7 of everything good. | Aug 11 12:17 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm: what happens when u reach the TBW? do u lose ur data? or are simply not able to write anymore (i think i read this)? | Aug 11 12:19 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: Mastodon dropped OStatus, and in the process also Atom for some reason. | Aug 11 12:20 |
| MrGreenFriend | so, if TBW just means u can't write anymore, that is not that bad... by that time SSD's will be way cheaper :) | Aug 11 12:20 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://www.techinsights.com/blog/techinsights-memory-technology-update-iedm18 Please note the adata drive I have been using is Micron storage with a different vendor controller. So the storage chips are basically intel. | Aug 11 12:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-TechInsights memory technology update from IEDM18 | TechInsights | Aug 11 12:21 | |
| oiaohm | The controller is not. | Aug 11 12:21 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: They're working on it. Not fast enough? | Aug 11 12:22 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: TBW has an effect how agressive the wearleveling has to be. Lower the TBW value the worse the durablity of the storage. So more likely to hit performace degrade sooner due to wear leveling around degraded cells. | Aug 11 12:23 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: and the fact Adata can do 640TBW using micron products there is no reason why Intel branded product could not have been 640 TBW as well. | Aug 11 12:25 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm: or maybe, intel is more honest in the TBW rating, than Adata... ;) | Aug 11 12:26 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: no Intel decide to put that QLC stuff in their offered hardware. Adata went with the 64 bit layered chips instead. | Aug 11 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Basically Intel has not put the best chips they have on off to use in their branded product. | Aug 11 12:27 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm: oh, whoops, of course | Aug 11 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Opps 64 layered instaed. | Aug 11 12:28 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm: so QLC doesnt actually lose data, right? | Aug 11 12:29 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://www.micron.com/products/advanced-solutions/qlc-nand its about silcon usage. | Aug 11 12:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.micron.com | QLC NAND | Aug 11 12:30 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13131/the-silicon-motion-sm2262en-ssd-controller-preview/9 No both products are QLC I got that wrong. ADATA and the Intel offering. The difference is in the controller LDPC error correction< bit | Aug 11 12:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.anandtech.com | Looking Forward - The Silicon Motion SM2262EN SSD Controller Preview: Good And Bad Amplified | Aug 11 12:37 | |
| oiaohm | QLC due to packing more bits into same cell data loss is a higher risk so how to repair from that is kind of important. | Aug 11 12:39 |
| MrGreenFriend | huh, the Adada is TLC: " Micron’s 64L 3D TLC, Adata’s SX8200 Pro is nearly identical to the SX8200 and GAMMIX S11 we reviewed previously, except this time around the SSD comes armed with the new SMI SM2262EN controller that is a significant upgrade over the previous-gen SM2262." https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adata-xpg-sx8200-pro-ssd,5955.html | Aug 11 12:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tomshardware.com | Adata XPG SX8200 Pro Review: Go Pro on a Budget - Tom's Hardware | Aug 11 12:40 | |
| oiaohm | Being TLC would also explain the higher durablity. | Aug 11 12:42 |
| oiaohm | 3 bit per cell vs 4 bits per cell. | Aug 11 12:42 |
| MrGreenFriend | "2nd Gen 64-layer 3D TLC " https://www.newegg.com/xpg-sx8200-pro-1tb/p/0D9-0017-000W4 | Aug 11 12:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB 3D NAND PCIe NVMe Gen3x4 M.2 2280 Internal Solid State Drive (ASX8200PNP-1TT-C) - Newegg.com | Aug 11 12:43 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: roughy the same price using TLC instead of QLC. And that option you have 3 times the durablity. | Aug 11 12:46 |
| oiaohm | The storage chips are both made by intel. | Aug 11 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Please note the durablity increase as the number of chips used increased. So biggest NVMe you can buy is normally a target. | Aug 11 12:48 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The best programs and tools for students http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126827 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3c549969-1c46-4a1b-8726-fee29136f64b] | Aug 11 12:48 | |
| MrGreenFriend | good news, computers are getting faster/cheaper ;) https://www.techinsights.com/blog/techinsights-memory-technology-update-iedm18 | Aug 11 12:49 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: if the cells are storing 1, 2,3 or 4 bits that is normally decided by the choosen controller chip. | Aug 11 12:49 |
| oiaohm | as well as if the silicon can take it. | Aug 11 12:50 |
| oiaohm | So running TLC in silicon made for QLC will work well. | Aug 11 12:50 |
| oiaohm | Basically intel own branded product is basically too greedy saving on silicon usage. | Aug 11 12:50 |
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| psydroid | I have a 512 GB Intel 600p in my laptop as my primary SSD and won't upgrade until a 1 TB 760p hits €100, hopefully sometime next year | Aug 11 12:56 |
| MrGreenFriend | oiaohm> MrGreenFriend: roughy the same price using TLC instead of QLC" Huh? Nope. 2x as expensive: 1TB: TLC $185. QLC $95 https://newegg.com/xpg-sx8200-pro-1tb/p/0D9-0017-000W4 https://newegg.com/intel-660p-series-1tb/p/N82E16820167462 | Aug 11 12:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, QLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW010T8X1 - Newegg.com | Aug 11 12:57 | |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: when you are thinking lifespan. | Aug 11 12:59 |
| MrGreenFriend | psydroid: that's the spirit! ;) | Aug 11 13:01 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: AUD $168.00 for the QLC and $225.00 for the TLC. Also its not like double.its 65 dollars more for tripple the durability. | Aug 11 13:11 |
| oiaohm | MrGreenFriend: that is for where I am. | Aug 11 13:11 |
| MrGreenFriend | is that because of taxes? | Aug 11 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Part low AUD dollar at the moment. | Aug 11 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Part taxs and part differences in shipping. | Aug 11 13:12 |
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| schestowitz | XRevan86: ok, sounds like a major regression (why break something that already works?) | Aug 11 13:46 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: kaniini disagrees. | Aug 11 13:46 |
| XRevan86 | if you mean OStatus | Aug 11 13:47 |
| XRevan86 | if you mean Atom, then I don't know what they were thinking | Aug 11 13:47 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to MrGreenFriend tiagoE oiaohm XFaCE | Aug 11 14:08 | |
| ---MinceR gives voice to acer-box__ amarsh04 libertybox viera | Aug 11 14:08 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Star Labs Linux Laptop Review — A Premium Ultrabook for Open Source Admirers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126828 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e09fee56-1678-4cc6-b052-b706117f0b9e] | Aug 11 14:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: China: Baidu, Huawei and HarmonyOS http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126829 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6f83177b-3c12-4825-8d14-9cc5238fe24d] | Aug 11 14:49 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Purism and e Foundation take on the smartphone duopoly http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126830 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2edd3ef0-a763-4dbe-8500-9c6c6bb7c099] | Aug 11 15:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Git Alligator, Jenkins World, Python and Perl http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126831 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b86baa3b-7c60-49e7-8852-b98f1e62dea8] | Aug 11 16:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: PostgreSQL: When open-source gets serious http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126832 [https://pleroma.site/objects/253ba594-e467-4549-a9cc-02937a918236] | Aug 11 16:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Events: GitLab Commit, foss-north, Vintage Computer Festival West 2019 and DebConf in Brazil http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126833 [https://pleroma.site/objects/36c02158-5131-46b2-aea7-d9d5b7a41460] | Aug 11 16:31 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware: OpenHAK, Rock Pi, RISC-V Foundation and Nvidia GPU Documentation http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126836 [https://pleroma.site/objects/58293306-5007-4465-a8d9-97f5a0fa5577] | Aug 11 17:46 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat/IBM Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126838 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d2ef99cc-c7b3-4d3d-9dc3-3afea7e5ecbc] | Aug 11 18:05 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126839 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fc483a5d-d0e5-4d1f-b7e2-f975a8bf9ad8] | Aug 11 18:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 11/8/2019: DragonFly 5.6.2 and OpenBSD 6.6 Beta http://techrights.org/2019/08/11/openbsd-6-6-beta/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/434441e0-5abd-4eeb-94a7-f3497c200fca] | Aug 11 18:19 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126840 [https://pleroma.site/objects/601e170f-2d06-432b-b4ed-d03d55024a11] | Aug 11 18:54 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126841 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1196d453-4ec6-499b-bd76-9b3629580082] | Aug 11 18:59 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Awesome Linux Racing Games Collection http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126842 [https://pleroma.site/objects/76696abb-bcc3-4889-88f0-8d7f92cb903f] | Aug 11 19:01 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: System76 Preparing To Roll Out Their First Coreboot-Enabled Laptop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126843 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4fbd36e4-55e4-4e15-a58f-1d6f003d01a2] | Aug 11 19:05 | |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19062822 | Aug 11 19:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Aug 11 19:10 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126844 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2bfd600d-cd15-4029-a87d-fa36bc3c485f] | Aug 11 19:29 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Linux 5.4, Linux 4.4 & 4.9 Kernels Get Back-Ported SWAPGS Protection, Better Fscrypt Coming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126845 [https://pleroma.site/objects/526ef1e8-907c-44f7-9481-a1c494c0f548] | Aug 11 19:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Vulkan 1.1.118, Wev for Wayland http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126846 [https://pleroma.site/objects/107ce2c0-26ea-4a48-bbc0-ca7f2962e9ea] | Aug 11 19:51 | |
| kaniini | XRevan86: this is precisely why i don't like the GNU Social crowd | Aug 11 19:54 |
| kaniini | y'all a bit too obsessed with freedom 0 (which even stallman says that interpretation is wrong) | Aug 11 19:54 |
| kaniini | like i'm not going to shed any tears over the gab community missing out on my shitposts | Aug 11 19:55 |
| kaniini | sorry | Aug 11 19:55 |
| kaniini | they literally masturbate about shooting up all the black people in walmart and post nazi memes all day | Aug 11 19:55 |
| schestowitz | they do | Aug 11 19:55 |
| kaniini | i've interacted enough with gab to draw some reasonable conclusions about it | Aug 11 19:55 |
| schestowitz | not all, but it gets worse over time | Aug 11 19:55 |
| schestowitz | it has already shadowed or mirrored Daily Stormer | Aug 11 19:56 |
| kaniini | i mean, other than spam instances, gab is the only one blocked on pleroma.site | Aug 11 19:56 |
| kaniini | i was considering unblocking them, but it hasn't gotten any better | Aug 11 19:56 |
| kaniini | lol | Aug 11 19:56 |
| schestowitz | violent posts are not quite freedom 0 | Aug 11 19:56 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/07/19/violence-vs-speech/ | Aug 11 19:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Violence is Not Free Speech and Laws Exist Against Violence | Techrights | Aug 11 19:57 | |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: The way I see it, RMS talked about it from a legal standpoint. Like, would software stop being free if it introduces something that prevents the user from doing something. And no, it would not. | Aug 11 19:58 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: If we're jumping to the Tusky/Fedilab controversy. | Aug 11 19:58 |
| kaniini | no i mean in general | Aug 11 19:59 |
| kaniini | removing violent content (and the users which generate it) is something historically supported by stallman | Aug 11 19:59 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: We're all a little too obsessed. It's tiresome, to be honest. | Aug 11 19:59 |
| kaniini | because obviously if you don't you get a cesspool like gab | Aug 11 19:59 |
| kaniini | i mean | Aug 11 19:59 |
| kaniini | i'm not obsessed | Aug 11 19:59 |
| kaniini | i block gab, i go on with my life | Aug 11 19:59 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: I didn't mean us two specifically %) | Aug 11 20:00 |
| kaniini | it is just irritating to hear people defend an obvious cesspool | Aug 11 20:00 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: https://x0r.be/@szbalint/102597398310601636 stuff like that | Aug 11 20:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Bálint 🎭: "hatespeech-friendly clients, blocking, x0r.be" - x0r.be | Aug 11 20:00 | |
| kaniini | like | Aug 11 20:00 |
| kaniini | yeah but that's mastodon | Aug 11 20:00 |
| kaniini | mastodon people are always LARPing tbh | Aug 11 20:00 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: What does that mean? | Aug 11 20:00 |
| kaniini | live action role playing | Aug 11 20:00 |
| kaniini | i'm saying they protest too much ;) | Aug 11 20:01 |
| kaniini | i mean all you have to do is connect to gab streaming endpoint and you can see for yourself it's mostly nazis | Aug 11 20:01 |
| kaniini | this should be an open and shut case lol | Aug 11 20:01 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: I just call it the Warden syndome. | Aug 11 20:01 |
| kaniini | like i'm not big on blocking instances | Aug 11 20:02 |
| kaniini | but seriously | Aug 11 20:02 |
| kaniini | fuck gab lol | Aug 11 20:02 |
| schestowitz | gab in 2017 isn't 2018's | Aug 11 20:03 |
| schestowitz | I imagine this year's is even worse as people like me would not post there anymore, leaving just more of the nazis to infest it completely | Aug 11 20:03 |
| schestowitz | even their tech section was full of nazi stuff | Aug 11 20:03 |
| schestowitz | highly voted, even if clearly offtopic | Aug 11 20:04 |
| schestowitz | The Rapist and Criminal invested MINDS to the White House but not Gab | Aug 11 20:04 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: Yes, I think you're position on that is fairly level headed. Hence why I casted you, hoping you're spread that :) | Aug 11 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Even the Orange nazis found it too much for his taste | Aug 11 20:04 |
| XRevan86 | * you'll | Aug 11 20:04 |
| schestowitz | *invited I mean, not invested | Aug 11 20:05 |
| schestowitz | gab is full of endorsement of violence against minorities | Aug 11 20:05 |
| schestowitz | derelicts central | Aug 11 20:06 |
| kaniini | i mean, if we federated with gab | Aug 11 20:06 |
| kaniini | we would just get death threats from their users most likely | Aug 11 20:07 |
| kaniini | so what is even the point lol | Aug 11 20:07 |
| schestowitz | you soros shill, kaniini ;-) | Aug 11 20:08 |
| kaniini | well my mother is jewish | Aug 11 20:08 |
| kaniini | so | Aug 11 20:08 |
| kaniini | i mean, i guess | Aug 11 20:08 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: About Tusky: my opinion is that with software the user is *always* king, no exceptions. | Aug 11 20:08 |
| schestowitz | kaniini: so they'd call you the k word, not kaniini | Aug 11 20:09 |
| -->mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 20:09 | |
| kaniini | schestowitz: some of the alt-righters already do | Aug 11 20:09 |
| *kaniini shrugs | Aug 11 20:09 | |
| kaniini | says more about them than me :) | Aug 11 20:09 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: And it is the free software principle that the user should be king, so in that way I find anti-features violating the spirit of the freedom zero. There. | Aug 11 20:09 |
| kaniini | XRevan86: i mean, i agree in principle, but i also agree with the tusky devs being able to say "fuck gab" if they want | Aug 11 20:09 |
| schestowitz | they sign theirs with a torture device | Aug 11 20:09 |
| kaniini | and besides, you can just change a config file | Aug 11 20:10 |
| kaniini | and gab is unblocked | Aug 11 20:10 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: They can, yes. And I can passively disagree %). | Aug 11 20:11 |
| kaniini | i guess what i am saying is, i actually believe in free speech (and not the 'free for some, but not you' kind the alt-right advertise) | Aug 11 20:11 |
| kaniini | it does not matter to me either way | Aug 11 20:11 |
| kaniini | i don't use gab, i have no interest in using gab | Aug 11 20:11 |
| kaniini | and i like tusky as a client | Aug 11 20:11 |
| kaniini | so i will continue to use tusky and continue to help them get grants | Aug 11 20:12 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: But okay, what if the user is locked-in by Android? How would they access the config file? | Aug 11 20:12 |
| kaniini | there are apps on the play store that let you modify said config files | Aug 11 20:12 |
| kaniini | it is not hard | Aug 11 20:12 |
| kaniini | plus you can just sideload it with the modified config file if it matters that much | Aug 11 20:12 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: Are you sure? They're supposed to have their own user:group | Aug 11 20:13 |
| kaniini | yes i am sure | Aug 11 20:13 |
| kaniini | they create a new package and sideload it | Aug 11 20:13 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: Ah, a separate .apk | Aug 11 20:13 |
| XRevan86 | That's a "they should suffer" kind of deal either way. Not very king-like. | Aug 11 20:15 |
| -->gde33 (~gde33@84-106-24-118.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 20:15 | |
| *schestowitz even as a free speech absolutist seen gab from the inside; it incites mass murder (people there explicitly do) | Aug 11 20:17 | |
| XRevan86 | > aha alright, I had no experience, you have it | Aug 11 20:20 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: That's exactly what I was trying to convey to him. So mission accomplished :) | Aug 11 20:20 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: "The GNU social crowd" is unspooked. | Aug 11 20:27 |
| kaniini | i mean | Aug 11 20:28 |
| kaniini | like i said | Aug 11 20:28 |
| kaniini | i see myself as a free speech absolutist | Aug 11 20:28 |
| kaniini | but i'm not under any allusions | Aug 11 20:28 |
| kaniini | you can't have true free speech when people are just dumping spam and hate | Aug 11 20:28 |
| kaniini | true free speech means everyone is welcome to say their piece | Aug 11 20:29 |
| kaniini | on gab if you say that black lives matter you get death threats | Aug 11 20:29 |
| kaniini | thats not free speech | Aug 11 20:29 |
| kaniini | to have a free commons, you have to have some basic ground rules | Aug 11 20:29 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: I agree. What I mean is that "the GNU social crowd" hasn't had a need to realise this. Bad actors never cared about us. | Aug 11 20:31 |
| scientes | it will never work well on the internet | Aug 11 20:32 |
| XRevan86 | And even though ldavg is relatively big, it managed to even stay under the radar of most instance-blockers. | Aug 11 20:32 |
| scientes | unless you just stay off the radar | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | like i mean, on my instance, there are people with political views much different than my own | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | and its fine | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | because they act like adults | Aug 11 20:32 |
| scientes | these things can't hapen over such an inpersonal and unprivate realm either | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | they're not like | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | LOL I AM GOING TO GO FUCK UP THESE MUSLIMS | Aug 11 20:32 |
| scientes | you are not going to convince people to be tolerant over the internet | Aug 11 20:32 |
| scientes | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Aug 11 20:32 |
| kaniini | there are even *gasp* conservatives on my instance | Aug 11 20:32 |
| scientes | kaniini, its usually more like "fuck up these hajjis" | Aug 11 20:33 |
| scientes | and BTW, Hajj is right now | Aug 11 20:33 |
| kaniini | whatever you know what i mean | Aug 11 20:33 |
| kaniini | people on gab talk like this | Aug 11 20:33 |
| kaniini | almost all traffic on their streaming is like this | Aug 11 20:33 |
| scientes | that is the slang that came out of the Iraq War II | Aug 11 20:33 |
| scientes | Iraq-US war II | Aug 11 20:33 |
| scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woi96J1gqGw | Aug 11 20:34 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Hajj LIVE | Makkah Live | Mina & Muzdalifah Live | Makkah Eid Live | Hajj 2019 Live | Makkah 2019 - YouTube | Aug 11 20:34 | |
| scientes | try getting around that thing 7 times in that crowd! | Aug 11 20:35 |
| scientes | and this is the middle of the night | Aug 11 20:35 |
| kaniini | anyway, back to spending my sunday not dealing with fedi bullshit | Aug 11 20:35 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: About instance-blockers… how many instances do you know have blocked yours? | Aug 11 20:36 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: Because I've a few people that would block for less. | Aug 11 20:36 |
| XRevan86 | * I've seen | Aug 11 20:36 |
| scientes | but "social media" is very anti-social | Aug 11 20:36 |
| kaniini | as far as i know, there's only a handful of blocks on mine | Aug 11 20:36 |
| scientes | I think people should just go outside | Aug 11 20:36 |
| kaniini | all from mastodon side of network | Aug 11 20:36 |
| XRevan86 | On Mastodon, of course %) | Aug 11 20:36 |
| kaniini | the wifi at this airbnb is trash | Aug 11 20:37 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: "anyway, back to spending my sunday not dealing with fedi bullshit" – okay, I'm done myself. | Aug 11 20:37 |
| XRevan86 | kaniini: I feel anxious for no apparent reason. | Aug 11 20:38 |
| scientes | kaniini, AirBNB let the host cancel on me twice, after I paid, and let the host re-list the days that were sold to me | Aug 11 20:38 |
| scientes | two different hosts | Aug 11 20:38 |
| <--mmu_man has quit (Quit: Lost terminal) | Aug 11 20:39 | |
| scientes | XRevan86, they are out to get you | Aug 11 20:39 |
| scientes | XRevan86, all of them | Aug 11 20:39 |
| XRevan86 | *grandpa talk* I remember times when I was proud to be part of this little federated network. | Aug 11 20:39 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to gde33 | Aug 11 20:39 | |
| scientes | seriously I think blogs is the best model | Aug 11 20:39 |
| scientes | and you can list pictures if you want | Aug 11 20:40 |
| scientes | but if you don't have something to say, perhaps you shouldn't say anything at all | Aug 11 20:40 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I actually don't. | Aug 11 20:42 |
| XRevan86 | That's why I have 3210 notices in total for 6 years. | Aug 11 20:42 |
| scientes | notices? | Aug 11 20:42 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: posts | Aug 11 20:42 |
| XRevan86 | comments | Aug 11 20:43 |
| scientes | I would probably be more productive if I didn't compulsively do IRC | Aug 11 20:44 |
| scientes | but otherwise I've removed all the crap social network stuff | Aug 11 20:45 |
| scientes | I also got tired of Facebook and Linked-In not forwarding the message to you when they e-mail you telling you you got a message | Aug 11 20:45 |
| scientes | seriously? | Aug 11 20:45 |
| scientes | they really are THAT evil | Aug 11 20:45 |
| scientes | if a recruiter sends you a message on Lined-In then they will forward it to you | Aug 11 20:46 |
| scientes | if there a way I can just turn all messaging off? | Aug 11 20:46 |
| XRevan86 | Most of my communication just happens on XMPP (including IRC through a transport). | Aug 11 20:46 |
| scientes | I stopped using XMPP when all the providers stopped federating | Aug 11 20:47 |
| scientes | it isn't that great of a protocol either | Aug 11 20:47 |
| *XRevan86 never cared for crappy providers like Google, Yandex, Facebook or VK anyway. | Aug 11 20:48 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's fairly robust and extensible. | Aug 11 20:48 |
| scientes | but it doesn't support OTR | Aug 11 20:49 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Everything supports OTR. | Aug 11 20:50 |
| XRevan86 | and nothing supports OTR | Aug 11 20:50 |
| XRevan86 | OTR is protocol-agnostic. | Aug 11 20:50 |
| scientes | true | Aug 11 20:50 |
| razielle_tzu | there are OTR plugins for lots of xmpp clients plus a few have it natively... | Aug 11 20:51 |
| razielle_tzu | more have it natively than require a plugin | Aug 11 20:52 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: If you want native E2EE, then https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0384.html & https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0373.xml | Aug 11 20:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xmpp.org | XEP-0384: OMEMO Encryption | Aug 11 20:52 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Unlike with OTR, they work fine with multiple devices. | Aug 11 20:55 |
| XRevan86 | "it isn't that great of a protocol either" – so isn't, say, SQL | Aug 11 20:59 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: For some reason all attempts to re-invent SQL for all intents and purposes failed miserably. | Aug 11 21:00 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: XMPP has a similiar fate. | Aug 11 21:00 |
| scientes | I like IRC | Aug 11 21:00 |
| scientes | is serves my use-cases | Aug 11 21:01 |
| scientes | XMPP has a pretty similar set of features | Aug 11 21:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Maybe if you have a bouncer | Aug 11 21:01 |
| scientes | I do | Aug 11 21:02 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Exactly. | Aug 11 21:02 |
| XRevan86 | You have to have a shim between you and IRC to make yourself comfortable here. | Aug 11 21:02 |
| XRevan86 | Not exactly on par with XMPP. | Aug 11 21:02 |
| scientes | oh I C | Aug 11 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | > XMPP has a pretty similar set of features | Aug 11 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | So not true at all. | Aug 11 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | Yes, I sent one message, the transport splitted it in two. | Aug 11 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | I wonder why it did that… | Aug 11 21:03 |
| scientes | well maybe i should set up ejabberd again | Aug 11 21:03 |
| scientes | oh man , work gets me down | Aug 11 21:04 |
| scientes | especially stupid things, like endianness issues and other stuff I don't want to think about | Aug 11 21:05 |
| scientes | on friday I spent like 4 hours figuring out that differn't proprocessor defines meant that a struct was differn't sizes in differn't places | Aug 11 21:05 |
| XRevan86 | On the downside of XMPP compared to IRC, there are no "networks". In this way multi-user chats are weaker. | Aug 11 21:06 |
| scientes | oh that's how they got my data | Aug 11 21:06 |
| scientes | it was whatsapp sharing data with facebook | Aug 11 21:07 |
| XRevan86 | facebook shared data with facebook? | Aug 11 21:07 |
| XRevan86 | What were they thinking %) | Aug 11 21:07 |
| scientes | i just couldn't figure out how they figured out something | Aug 11 21:07 |
| scientes | but in South America you have to use WhatsApp, because they are corrupt with the telecoms | Aug 11 21:07 |
| XRevan86 | doesn't facebook know that facebook is nasty and cannot be trusted with data? | Aug 11 21:08 |
| scientes | and there is a $1.30/month deal where you only get Facebook+WhatsApp on your phone | Aug 11 21:08 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: "have to"? | Aug 11 21:09 |
| scientes | if you want to communicate with all those users | Aug 11 21:09 |
| scientes | you can also call them (AT&T bell system), but they can't call you | Aug 11 21:09 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I would've called them | Aug 11 21:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | WhatsApp is more reliable than Sprint's voice network. | Aug 11 21:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So I use it quite often. | Aug 11 21:10 |
| XRevan86 | and told them "you greedy baboons, install Gentoo^W Wire or something" | Aug 11 21:10 |
| scientes | yes, WhatsApp also has good international call quality | Aug 11 21:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | For a little while, I really have no rights. | Aug 11 21:10 |
| scientes | but yeah I'm going to try Wire | Aug 11 21:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | As long as a cop or probation officer knows you're on probation, you can't refuse to allow them to search your home or car. | Aug 11 21:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Or anything else, for that matter. | Aug 11 21:11 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], no, the police still aren't suppose to search | Aug 11 21:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like a computer or your phone. | Aug 11 21:11 |
| scientes | but again, the US is a lawless place | Aug 11 21:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah, well, they can get your probation officer out there to go on a fishing expedition because a condition of supervised release is that you can't refuse to allow them to search you. | Aug 11 21:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And anything they uncover when they do is admissible in court, whether they were specifically looking for that or not. | Aug 11 21:12 |
| XRevan86 | "the US is a lawless place" – the true meaning of those rUsSiA hats :D | Aug 11 21:12 |
| XRevan86 | * caps | Aug 11 21:12 |
| scientes | rUsSiA hat | Aug 11 21:12 |
| scientes | lawl | Aug 11 21:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I just have to get through the next year and I go back to more or less where I was at before. | Aug 11 21:12 |
| scientes | I mean, its quite peaceful | Aug 11 21:13 |
| scientes | but that's only while the money flows | Aug 11 21:13 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: You must've seen them, schestowitz posted it numerous times. | Aug 11 21:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If I don't give them any reason to suspect me, it only creates more work for them to come out here to bother me. | Aug 11 21:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That means that I must never miss a check-in, must never be in trouble with the police/government for any reason, and must never fail a drug/alcohol screening. | Aug 11 21:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Provided I do all that, I don't think that they'll bother me too much. | Aug 11 21:14 |
| scientes | heh https://img1.etsystatic.com/201/0/8504900/il_570xN.1337053641_5dv6.jpg | Aug 11 21:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I've been on probation before and they didn't even bother to drug screen me, although they could have at any time. | Aug 11 21:14 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Not this one. | Aug 11 21:14 |
| scientes | this one https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNCHPOQWkAUbY8R.jpg | Aug 11 21:14 |
| XRevan86 | yes :) | Aug 11 21:14 |
| scientes | but i found the other one while looking, and it was funny | Aug 11 21:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The short version of this is definitely don't drink and don't use drugs while they're watching you. Most people figure they'll get away with it, and they're wrong. | Aug 11 21:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | A lot of people on probation literally go drinking in a bar sitting next to the probation department. | Aug 11 21:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I mean, people are dumb. | Aug 11 21:15 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: There'a a lot of this kind of humour in Russian patriot circles. | Aug 11 21:15 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], you can still drink unless the judge specifically said you can't | Aug 11 21:15 |
| scientes | XRevan86, for a while it was all over Reddit (which I don't use anymore) | Aug 11 21:16 |
| scientes | I think its because they were paid to post that type of stuff | Aug 11 21:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The probation officer said I couldn't, but my probation forms say that I can drink unless the box saying I can't is checked, and it isn't checked. | Aug 11 21:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They did prohibit me from having a firearm. | Aug 11 21:16 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: In Russia it's just playing tough | Aug 11 21:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which is against the constitution, but then again, when has the government ever felt obligated by something as small as the constitution? | Aug 11 21:17 |
| XRevan86 | "They think we meddled? We meddled! YEAAAH" | Aug 11 21:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If the government does pretend to be obligated by the constitution, it finds ways to work around the constitution. | Aug 11 21:17 |
| XRevan86 | https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dreamhack201212/48246927/310761/310761_original.jpg | Aug 11 21:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like getting some court to reinterpret the constitution in such a way that it means something that it doesn't. | Aug 11 21:17 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], so is Eldred v. Ashcroft | Aug 11 21:17 |
| scientes | and that is the actual constitution | Aug 11 21:18 |
| scientes | not that flibby-flabby after-though that was tagged on later | Aug 11 21:18 |
| scientes | XRevan86, that is very similar to the US opinion of WWII | Aug 11 21:19 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: But you get what's implied? | Aug 11 21:19 |
| scientes | oooooooooo1 | Aug 11 21:19 |
| -->mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 21:19 | |
| scientes | yeah but the Greeks had that too | Aug 11 21:19 |
| scientes | and again, very similar in the US | Aug 11 21:19 |
| XRevan86 | We had them (our enemies) then, we'll have them again. | Aug 11 21:19 |
| XRevan86 | The way I see, compensating our complete and total powerlessness with tough talk. | Aug 11 21:21 |
| scientes | I wouldn't characterize Russia as powerless | Aug 11 21:22 |
| scientes | maybe the peon of Russia | Aug 11 21:22 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I mostly mean a Russian individual. | Aug 11 21:22 |
| scientes | ahhh | Aug 11 21:22 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: And Russia is not nearly as powerful as it tries to pose itself, outwards and inwards. | Aug 11 21:23 |
| scientes | XRevan86, same could be said of the US..... | Aug 11 21:23 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Remember what happened in Achinsk? | Aug 11 21:23 |
| XRevan86 | it happened again! | Aug 11 21:24 |
| scientes | explosion? | Aug 11 21:24 |
| scientes | > August 2019 | Aug 11 21:24 |
| scientes | damn wikipedia is fast | Aug 11 21:24 |
| scientes | I think RT Spanish reported on that one | Aug 11 21:25 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Yes, artillery stuff. | Aug 11 21:25 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Did they mention the second time? August 9th? | Aug 11 21:26 |
| MinceR | 11 221709 <+DaemonFC[m]> Which is against the constitution, but then again, when has the government ever felt obligated by something as small as the constitution? | Aug 11 21:26 |
| MinceR | https://www.aclu.org/video/constitution-free-zone | Aug 11 21:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.aclu.org | Constitution-Free Zone | American Civil Liberties Union | Aug 11 21:26 | |
| MinceR | 11 221743 <+XRevan86> https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dreamhack201212/48246927/310761/310761_original.jpg | Aug 11 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: And I am not even mentioning what happened in the Archangelskaya oblast' | Aug 11 21:27 |
| MinceR | oh yes, one flavor of socialism vs another flavor of socialism | Aug 11 21:27 |
| MinceR | and the nazis won in the end | Aug 11 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | https://newsru.com/russia/08aug2019/reaktiv.html this | Aug 11 21:28 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-NEWSru.com :: Новое ЧП с погибшими на объекте Минобороны: в Архангельской области при испытании реактивной установки произошел взрыв | Aug 11 21:28 | |
| scientes | yeah but what about the tianjin explosion? | Aug 11 21:29 |
| scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIdMpdofgZ4 | Aug 11 21:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-* EXPLOSIÓN EN CHINA MUERTOS Y HERIDOS* video del 2015 - YouTube | Aug 11 21:29 | |
| scientes | haha, these guys sound like Idiocracy | Aug 11 21:29 |
| scientes | > Of the 173 fatalities, 104 were firefighters. | Aug 11 21:31 |
| scientes | of course that could just mean they are horrible at counting non-firefighter deaths | Aug 11 21:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: The idea is that since you agreed to go on supervision, you agreed to waive your constitutional rights to refuse a search to get out of jail time. | Aug 11 21:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which is a form of coercion, but that doesn't mean anything to these people. | Aug 11 21:33 |
| MinceR | the state is all about coercion, all the time | Aug 11 21:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I also had to waive my presumption of innocence, right to trial, and other things. | Aug 11 21:33 |
| MinceR | that's how they get you to pay taxes | Aug 11 21:34 |
| scientes | MinceR, well that is kinda the definition of a nation state | Aug 11 21:34 |
| MinceR | (audio:important) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/07/29/a82deddf95eee70f.mp4 | Aug 11 21:34 |
| MinceR | nation states suck especially | Aug 11 21:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The "or else" part is "We proceed to trial and let the state make up what actually happened and then we punish you more severely for making us put you in a kangaroo court.". | Aug 11 21:35 |
| MinceR | they take coercion, this whole "social contract" scam, and put nationalism on top | Aug 11 21:35 |
| MinceR | people claim the state works, so i'd like to know which one does | Aug 11 21:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Trial doesn't mean a hell of a lot. Theoretically, they make the state prove to like 95% certainty, that there was no other reasonable explanation of what happened. | Aug 11 21:35 |
| MinceR | certainly not any of the EU/EEA/EFTA members, nor the USA, nor any of the dictatorships | Aug 11 21:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which is probably why 99% of bench trials in some Illinois counties end with a conviction. | Aug 11 21:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | These are truly the statistics you'd expect out of Russia and China. | Aug 11 21:36 |
| scientes | MinceR, well duh, psychiatrists are sham doctors, everyone knows that except those paid to not know that | Aug 11 21:36 |
| scientes | and my grand-father was a psychiatrist hehe | Aug 11 21:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Out of 67 bench trials one month in St. Claire County, 66 ended in convictions. | Aug 11 21:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The judge doesn't seem to be entertaining the idea that innocence is possible. | Aug 11 21:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm sure that with stats like that, any competent attorney there would demand a jury. | Aug 11 21:37 |
| scientes | actually, its more just like most doctors are out to steal from you | Aug 11 21:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | You could hardly do worse than trial by judge with numbers like that. | Aug 11 21:37 |
| scientes | its hard to get a real doctor | Aug 11 21:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The system is obviously railroading criminal defendants in Illinois through sham proceedings designed to send them to prison, or whatever else the state wants to do with them. | Aug 11 21:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which means that it would be wise to avoid all contact with the police, just to be sure, if at all possible. | Aug 11 21:38 |
| MinceR | and in prison, they can work for the cronies of the state | Aug 11 21:39 |
| scientes | members of the police also rarely have friends that are not police | Aug 11 21:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The only hope you do have if you are accused of something is to make your confession as valuable to the prosecutor as possible in order to get the charges reduced to something less horrible. | Aug 11 21:39 |
| scientes | so they become a military cast that is capable of overturning the government, but incapable of doing anything sensible | Aug 11 21:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Probation officers are pretty awful to deal with, in general, but you can make your sentence far easier by just telling them what they want to hear and nothing more. | Aug 11 21:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's best to assume that if you start talking about details of your life that are not in a short reply to the question they asked, that they're going to create a bigger problem for you. | Aug 11 21:41 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to mmu_man | Aug 11 21:43 | |
| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/06/04/105f372e091c4749.jpg | Aug 11 21:44 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I generally only admit to things that are hopeless to deny. | Aug 11 21:44 |
| DaemonFC[m] | For example, if I was stopped by the police and they ran my driver's license, I would be scrambling to tell the probation officer before the deadline. | Aug 11 21:45 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't want to live in PRC | Aug 11 21:45 |
| scientes | boom boom | Aug 11 21:46 |
| MinceR | vengaboys | Aug 11 21:48 |
| -->phebus (~phebus@fsf/member/phebus) has joined #techrights | Aug 11 22:08 | |
| MinceR | (audio:unimportant) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/07/29/c7da985ba60732dd.mp4 | Aug 11 22:18 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to phebus | Aug 11 22:18 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: security through obscurity would be putting a curtain there | Aug 11 22:21 |
| MinceR | :> | Aug 11 22:23 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: You can also check out https://search.jabbercat.org/ | Aug 11 22:42 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-search.jabbercat.org | All rooms - Christopher Muclumbus | Aug 11 22:42 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/07/29/6605397666dc045a.jpg | Aug 11 22:48 |
| XRevan86 | One can only fit the ball with one's feet. That's why it's called soccer. | Aug 11 22:49 |
| MinceR | lol | Aug 11 22:51 |
| XRevan86 | * hit | Aug 11 22:51 |
| MinceR | like they say in the name of a xonotic/nexuiz map, "succer_socks" | Aug 11 22:51 |
| XRevan86 | Is it a good map? | Aug 11 22:55 |
| MinceR | dunno | Aug 11 22:56 |
| MinceR | i haven't played much nexball | Aug 11 22:56 |
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