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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 15th, 2008



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schestowitzJust spotted this one about Apple/AT&T fantasy world: "It’s just like the “$100 laptop”! Except not rugged, with a tiny screen sans dedicated reading mode, without a reasonable prolonged-use input device, with a $100 fee for a software development certificate, without USB ports or a video camera, with a prohibition on interpreted software and a by-design inability to share software due to DRM,..."Jun 15 07:07
schestowitz"...and requiring wi-fi access points or expensive 3G GSM infrastructure to communicate. And, um, with a $200 retail price after massive subsidy by AT&T which attaches it to a mandatory two thousand dollar contract." Source: http://radian.org/notebook/3g-jackasseryJun 15 07:08
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schestowitzBig impact news (if it materialises): http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a...Jun 15 07:22
dsmith_mmmJun 15 08:32
dsmith_I have not seen the linux splash top yetJun 15 08:32
dsmith_sounds coolJun 15 08:32
schestowitzASUS will have it put on over 12 million boards per year. If they can manage to put it on more boards (or others imitate/adopt DeviceVM), that'll be something. Linux as default O/S on all PCs one day? (I'm exaggerating here)Jun 15 08:37
dsmith_perhapsJun 15 08:38
dsmith_alot of ppl do not know what linux isJun 15 08:38
dsmith_same with open officeJun 15 08:38
schestowitzPractically, for many people it's just a case of running Windows ME2/ME3 under GNU/Linux.Jun 15 08:38
*dsmith_ is trying out kde4 at the momentJun 15 08:39
schestowitzI trust Aaron, but what do you make of this?  http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/20... http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/06/maybe-peo...Jun 15 08:39
dsmith_I'll have to try out the folderview thingJun 15 08:42
dsmith_I read the earlier one about 21 bugsJun 15 08:42
dsmith_I am new to kde4Jun 15 08:42
dsmith_getting it to run in vmware was a painJun 15 08:43
dsmith_well, it would work but it wasn't stable at the leastJun 15 08:43
dsmith_i have an older zt3000 laptopJun 15 08:44
schestowitzI have 3.8.x (before final) installed at home, but I just ran a few apps under it. No crashes.Jun 15 08:44
dsmith_kde4 installed sweetJun 15 08:44
dsmith_4.1Jun 15 08:44
schestowitzI just want to run the newer applications (preferably with Plasma) under a kde(3)-desktopJun 15 08:45
schestowitzFrom a marketing point of view, KDE4 was a blunder. They ought to have said that KDE 4.0 was developer-only _right from the start_ and encourage regular users only to explore it in preparation. I wrote about it in my personal blog a few weeks ago. actually Jun 15 08:46
dsmith_agreedJun 15 08:48
dsmith_seems stable to meJun 15 08:50
schestowitzI'm not sure I'll try 4.1 though. Well, I rarely use 'the desktop' (Konqueror, panels, etc.). I do a lot of things on the Web and rely just on a few applications. The way I use the desktop changed a lot.Jun 15 08:54
*dsmith_ understandsJun 15 08:55
*dsmith_ wonders what MS has to say about linux splashtopJun 15 08:56
schestowitzThere's lot of legacy (people sticking to old habits). I never use office suites and multi-connected applications have to be encouraged. Aaron is right about plasmoids and he implements them well (in the sense that they are 'Web' oriented/aware). Problem is: most target audience might be dinosaurs.Jun 15 08:57
schestowitzMS is attacking Splashtop, methinks. See: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/...Jun 15 08:58
schestowitzI think -- just *think* -- that I saw a Microsoft response that's technical a few days ago. Maybe it was in preparation or just a rumour. I wish I remembered.Jun 15 08:59
dsmith_haha, remember the dinosaur adverts from MS?Jun 15 08:59
dsmith_lolJun 15 08:59
schestowitzWait, I'll find it. I used it against the Windows Munchkins before.Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_lolJun 15 09:01
dsmith_i'm reading..Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_you should find one of those ad's and toss it on the page somedayJun 15 09:01
dsmith_hahaJun 15 09:01
dsmith_brbJun 15 09:01
schestowitzhttp://microsoft-office.navajo...Jun 15 09:02
schestowitzI won't putnit on BN though because it leads to credibility loss. BTW, just found this site: http://microsofthaters.wordpress.com/ (whoever runs it put us on the sidebar)Jun 15 09:03
dsmith_ I’ve got my kids brainwashed: You don’t use Google, and you don’t use an iPod.”Jun 15 09:07
schestowitzThat's STeveB, right?Jun 15 09:08
dsmith_yepJun 15 09:11
schestowitzI didn't look, but I imagine it's from that blog.Jun 15 09:11
dsmith_i Just realized something, why aren't we using google gmail at he officeJun 15 09:13
dsmith_have to ponder that oneJun 15 09:13
dsmith_replace exchange..Jun 15 09:13
schestowitzPrivacy for starters  but then again, most people don't encrypt their mail, so this point is moot. it's FUD.Jun 15 09:14
dsmith_and outlookJun 15 09:14
dsmith_yepJun 15 09:14
schestowitzCome to think of it.Jun 15 09:14
dsmith_i do know that its not encrypted in any mannerJun 15 09:14
schestowitzMicrosoft used the Burton Group mouthpiece under a year ago to spread the Google Apps FUD. The WSJ called it a propaganda.Jun 15 09:15
schestowitzI still struggle to convince friends to install PGPJun 15 09:15
dsmith_burton piece was called propaganda?Jun 15 09:15
schestowitzThe UK now wants to keep record of all E-mails and calls.Jun 15 09:15
dsmith_hmmmJun 15 09:15
dsmith_I use to use PGP long agoJun 15 09:16
schestowitzWell, Microsoft actually had an 'anti-Google Apps' page rather than one extolling the virtues of its own offerings.Jun 15 09:16
schestowitzAnd Microsoft doesn't realise why people displike the company so must (those that understand how it operated anyway).Jun 15 09:16
dsmith_hmmmJun 15 09:16
dsmith_I am trying to skinny my way into a CIO positionJun 15 09:17
dsmith_we'll seeJun 15 09:17
dsmith_i'm off to bedJun 15 09:18
dsmith_gnJun 15 09:18
schestowitzGood luck with bureaucracy. It often escalates to people to whom Windows is computer [sic] and they want t protect their habit.Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_er.. morning to yaJun 15 09:18
schestowitzSee you later.Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_aint that the truthJun 15 09:18
dsmith_MS crackJun 15 09:18
dsmith_lolJun 15 09:18
schestowitzRead the GL interview with Quinn.Jun 15 09:19
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schestowitzOBS: demonisation in the press...  http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup... "Mac zealots," it says. Always mind these words. Religious propaganda term.Jun 15 17:14
EruaranHi schestowitz, got any news ?Jun 15 17:18
schestowitzJust spotted something interesting from Tim O'Reilly moments ago, but the rest I've posted as a list of hyperlinks in the morning. I cam back just a short while ago. As for BN.com, I find that more people put it in their blogroll, but there's also the crowd that tries to stick label to the site and warn those who link to it.Jun 15 17:21
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schestowitzHi, maxstirneJun 15 18:15
maxstirnerGood afternoon sir! :)Jun 15 18:20
maxstirnerWhat was that controversy about the logs the other day?Jun 15 18:21
schestowitzBusy week ahead: Red Hat Summit near Novell's headquarters, Firefox 3.0 released almost at the same time as OpenSUSE 11.0.Jun 15 18:21
schestowitzWell, some Novell staff and SUSE developers came here. They called it "Internet war" (well, one of them did). They also read in one of the older logs that we hope to counter OSUSE 11.0 release hype. Novell's news has been dry, dry, dry recently. I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel to find some.Jun 15 18:22
maxstirnerI see, I did not I missed out on all of the action the other dayJun 15 18:23
maxstirnerThe opensuses are obviously going to be depressed about the deal and all of the attention youre subsequently bringing on itJun 15 18:24
schestowitzI also thought about the name 'Open'SUSE earlier. Like 'Open'Solaris, it's deceiving. Just as we sometimes call SLES|D Ballnux (not my idea), how about something like OwnpenSUSE or HobbynSUSE? OpenSUSE gives positive thoughts, connotation, perception.Jun 15 18:25
maxstirnerI used to be on (Open) Suse years back, a computer geek at a German Uni installed it for me. It was still a small local setup back thenJun 15 18:25
schestowitzI used SUSE for years and loved. it. I was on several mailing lists, newsgroups, and I was even helping people.Jun 15 18:26
maxstirnerCommunity spirit. Then got bought out by wrong corporate sponsor..Jun 15 18:26
maxstirnerThe ubuntus are really just in luck that shuttleworth has got millions to spass which may keep the software relatively "clean" as it wereJun 15 18:27
schestowitzYes, but I look ahead: Ron Hovsepian, Novell's CEO (just some weeks ago) said "Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand."Jun 15 18:28
maxstirnerI freely admit I left MS for political reasons and concerns regarding the spyware and stability, my technical abilities were/are rather limitedJun 15 18:28
schestowitzMicrosoft was willing to go into debt of over 20 billion by buying Yahoo. Do you know what Novell's market cap is? It's shocking.Jun 15 18:28
maxstirnerI love that interop web page, the corporate logos (tm) (r) side by side is just sickeningJun 15 18:28
maxstirnerMS had some really bad financial outlook reviews just now (as per the links on your site i might add...)Jun 15 18:29
maxstirnertheir future isnt looking rosy... it's the dinosaur disease... wrong type of creature in wrong (changed) environmentJun 15 18:30
schestowitzBy the way, I don't know if Novell has in the bank what it claims to have and when Novell buys a company (it recently bought two) I think of them as possible Microsoft assets-to-be.  As someone in Sys-con said recently,  the fines Microsoft would need to  pay for WordPerfect almost outweigh the value of Novell.Jun 15 18:30
schestowitzWell, far from it, but it makes it a smart business decision to buy (exploit) Novell, Yahoo!-style.Jun 15 18:31
maxstirnerYou are saying they may just merge :DJun 15 18:31
schestowitzMerge is a strong word because Microsoft is worth like 100 times more, IIRC.Jun 15 18:31
maxstirnerBuyout obv.. nice idea, they could get some sort of IP/Patent synergies going, under US law at leastJun 15 18:32
schestowitzThey wanted Yahoo! also for patents, one lawyer argued in his formal report.Jun 15 18:32
schestowitzDo you want the link?Jun 15 18:32
maxstirnerI see.. Thanks, I'll trust you on that..Jun 15 18:33
schestowitzFor completeness, let me find it quickly...Jun 15 18:33
maxstirnerI feel I've come to understand a bit more about it lately..Jun 15 18:33
maxstirnerAs I feel rather confident about the technological evolution in terms of licensing regimes, I think the picture may be more of an SCO-type role for MS in the future, trying to tax people on the basis of what it supposedly invented first?Jun 15 18:34
schestowitzVia < zoobab >:http://www.sourcewire.com/releas...Jun 15 18:34
maxstirnerthxJun 15 18:34
schestowitz"While Microsoft is undeniably the leader in terms of sheer number of patents/applications spread across over 100 IPCs (international patent classification codes), it has possibly lagged when compared to Yahoo! and Google in terms of innovation. Yahoo! emerges as a significant innovative player in this regard,.." probably more so than even Google. Given this scenario, Microsoft’s potential acquisition of Yahoo! would definitely prop up itsJun 15 18:34
schestowitz IP arsenal against its battle for technology supremacy against Google.Jun 15 18:34
maxstirnerthe thing with all those companies is that theyre sharkish whilst in the garage, and then get dinosaurish post-IPO in terms of innovative potentialJun 15 18:35
schestowitzI wrote about this two weeks ago (Next SCO): Jun 15 18:35
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/200...Jun 15 18:36
maxstirnerOnline advertising market will get all the TV advertising dollar in near future.. I certainly concur there.. and MS never worked out how to spell interweb properlyJun 15 18:36
maxstirnerMS problem is that yahoo is a mature public corp, usually they just buy out startups with good ideas when theyre still in the garageJun 15 18:37
schestowitzTV/PC/PVR likely to coverge..Jun 15 18:37
maxstirnerThats been predicted since the mid-90s ;)Jun 15 18:37
schestowitzTherin lies the trouble. With the XBox sinking (another top manager just fled), the living room 'Trojan horse' plan (for VoD) sinks also.Jun 15 18:38
maxstirnera lot of the spending power has certainly moved to the pc/interweb in recent years, its a priviledged demographic anyhow, and online purchasing has grown exponentiallyJun 15 18:38
schestowitzSony TVs begin to have Linux in them and others from the far east follow the same footsteps, so Microsoft won't be happy. Microsoft has its IPTV IP and Silverlight (codecs and all). Soapbox fell down the drain/toilet.Jun 15 18:39
maxstirnerbut i understood SCO failed in their particular effort?Jun 15 18:39
maxstirnerI do think splashtop on TV would/will be killer appJun 15 18:39
schestowitzMicrosoft pulls SCO-like strings against Google's online video (monopoly with about 70%). They use Viacom and others possibly. They encourage them to attack Google in a way.Jun 15 18:40
schestowitzLet me back this with URLs if you require them.Jun 15 18:41
schestowitzYes, Splashtop fits nicely on laptops now too. ASAS announced this just a few weeks ago. First: all boards to have DeviceVM's stuff; then, laptops too. All of them. Now they reach out for more OEMs (the Big Boys)Jun 15 18:42
maxstirnerGoogle and youtube merger sccary moment in my booksJun 15 18:42
maxstirnerI think splashtop could replace OS entirely even, as is almost the case on eeepcJun 15 18:42
schestowitzDoubleClick also, but Microsoft wanted them too (got rejected)Jun 15 18:43
maxstirnerA flash-based HDD with linux OS distro, then media for /homeJun 15 18:43
schestowitzPeople love application. They just need an OS they don't have to think about. Linux is a good fit.Jun 15 18:43
schestowitzSSD. Linus is excited about it too.Jun 15 18:44
schestowitzHe had a major HDD crash recently.Jun 15 18:44
maxstirner:DJun 15 18:44
maxstirnerThats the funny thing, MS really f*cked up a wet dream global monopoly themselvesJun 15 18:45
schestowitzI can find some BillG/SteveB mail that shows disdain for services.Jun 15 18:45
maxstirnerservices? SAAS?Jun 15 18:47
maxstirnerwhen i got new pc set up for parentals, vista dualcore this and that, and my pc-phobic mother said upon boot "its even slower than the last one" (xp pc) i knew MS are disintegrating :DJun 15 18:48
schestowitzYes, Gates saw this back in 1995 (circa 1995) and then decided to {f**ing kill}^TM Netscape. I'm hardly surprised that IE never evolved much. That would mean cannibalisation.Jun 15 18:48
schestowitzMicrosoft know this too (disintegration), this the early signs of SCO tactics.Jun 15 18:49
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RogerBaconwow, what wrong with the nvell - microsoft deal ?Jun 15 18:50
maxstirnerI feel there are certain imperatives for govts to deploy FOSS now to foster local industry. The only people who really pay the MS tax are the public corporations and the govts anyhow, due to accountabilityJun 15 18:50
schestowitzHi, <RogerBacon>. Have you seen ttp://boycottnovell.com/no-to-novell/ ?Jun 15 18:51
maxstirnerhttp://boycottnovell.com/no-to-novell/Jun 15 18:52
schestowitz<maxstirner>, it's worse in the UK than in the US, I think. They protect their friends, jobs, moneyflow, ever-ageing computer skills, etc. Mind the BECTA scam from last Friday.Jun 15 18:52
maxstirneryes, i did spot that.. the MS partner system does hand out some local rewards. but i feel in some parts its even the comparatively limited skills in putting together corporate-looking quotes on the part of the linux communityJun 15 18:54
schestowitzHere is the issue. Collaboration that involves the kernel brings together Oracle, H-P, IBM, Intel and many more parties, yet governments and public services worldwide refuse to (or are afraid of collaborating). Even universities have already gotten past that barrier.Jun 15 18:54
maxstirnerIts insane really. I am currently living in Brazil, and they love their linux (as documented on their site)Jun 15 18:55
maxstirnerAnd why wouldnt they? Paying MS to teach basic html and word processing skills to schoolkids is jsut INSANEJun 15 18:55
schestowitzThey have over 10 semi-established distros. A friend of mine met their minister of culture. He's a friend of RMS too and a fan of Free software. They think so differently there.Jun 15 18:56
schestowitz\s\teach\train (inverted slash)Jun 15 18:56
maxstirnerwell i think ecuador and venezuela are natural FOSS-lovers due to left-wing govts. But brazil, although governed by a deeply corrupt business-loving elite, has some progressive policiesJun 15 18:57
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schestowitzHi, <ed_>Jun 15 18:59
ed_hiJun 15 19:00
RogerBaconOpen Suse it's a great distribJun 15 19:02
maxstirnerI feel though that the limited impact in european public policy, which may be helped by EU commission attitudes, has a lot to do with the origins of GNU/Lx versus the corporate world selling proprietary software. Gartner has established standard costings per workstation, and IT purchasers expect those sort of prices alongside idiotic presenttations and pretty suits etcJun 15 19:02
RogerBacon*stillJun 15 19:02
maxstirnerRoger: I dropped it for dpkg-based distros now, i only have one centos server left which i get really annoyed with sometimesJun 15 19:03
schestowitz<maxstirner>, have you seen that article about Gartner price-fixing? It was recent.Jun 15 19:04
maxstirnerSo if you come along and you look like a FOSS hippy and you say its all practically free and you can keep your old workstations, it just doesnt fit into the purchasing officer's membraneJun 15 19:04
maxstirnerI think it's probably an article posted by you I'm on about?Jun 15 19:04
schestowitzIt's not just Gartner. Intel also. The collusions got further exposed some months ago (class action suit).Jun 15 19:05
maxstirnerI think in some ways a successful linux consultancy would have to make things expensive, and have all those corporate PR / marketing / nonsense bits.Jun 15 19:05
maxstirnerindemnification is a word that pops up in this context as wellJun 15 19:05
maxstirnerI feel even in hardware things are happening at this stage. Intel's Atom is IMHO a reaction to the VIA miniboards, cheap, small, power-efficientJun 15 19:07
schestowitzServices like support and integration should be a form of revenue though.Jun 15 19:07
maxstirnerof course they wouldJun 15 19:07
schestowitzARM also.Jun 15 19:07
maxstirnerI am just saying that companies such as novell are sadly poised to be much more successful in an environment that wants expensive PR marketing and indemnification delivered by suits in the classical contextJun 15 19:07
schestowitzJust sold over 10 billion chips. One of the biggest Big Lies out there is to do with (computer = desktop). You know what company this fallacy serves.Jun 15 19:08
maxstirnerIntel-MS duopoly is about to break (ciao MS)Jun 15 19:08
maxstirnerSo Intel has been pushing Atom-Linux as a lineJun 15 19:08
schestowitzNovell speaks a lot to Microsoft partners like SAP, to whom Microsoft gives a blessing I suppose. It's no wonder Novell execs openly call Microsoft "a partner".Jun 15 19:09
maxstirnerThat's progress thanks to linux breaking the windows upgrade cycleJun 15 19:09
maxstirnerThey have all those ugly web pages with the corporate logos making love! That interop site is sickeningJun 15 19:09
schestowitzIntel said that it's pretty much all Linux for MIDs, which Linux is set to dominate based on a report published last week.Jun 15 19:09
schestowitzWasn't it orange?Jun 15 19:09
maxstirnerIve been on the same 1.5Ghz Pentium M since 2002, and I am actually planning to LOWER the processor power on next modelJun 15 19:10
schestowitzI dread too much to look.Jun 15 19:10
maxstirnerfor portability, same for servers I want power-efficient, fanless miniitxJun 15 19:10
schestowitzI'm on 1.8 at the moment.Jun 15 19:10
ed_maxstirner: what do you watch the porn with?Jun 15 19:10
maxstirnerits funny, I would have never forseen the processing Ghzage maxing out at 3 Ghz for myselfJun 15 19:10
maxstirnerporn? youre saying compressed divx avis etc?Jun 15 19:11
schestowitzed_, doesn't the joke go, "how am I supposed to fill /that/ with pr0n?"Jun 15 19:11
ed_yeah that sort of thingJun 15 19:11
ed_:-)Jun 15 19:11
maxstirnered: i dont bother with HDMS.tm.r.com or whatever obviouslyJun 15 19:11
ed_aalib is the answerJun 15 19:11
maxstirnered: anything up to dvd is fine on 1.5 GhzJun 15 19:11
schestowitzDual core is for servers only. And people who edit videos... or use Vista maybe.Jun 15 19:11
ed_maxstirner: yeah if you just want to watch one video, but if you like watching four at once ...Jun 15 19:12
ed_i mean ... that's what dual head is after all...Jun 15 19:12
RogerBaconplay game ?Jun 15 19:12
RogerBaconscrew thatJun 15 19:12
maxstirnered: i can't hack more than one video input at a timeJun 15 19:12
maxstirnerbacon: dedicated box for games, i'm over that stage though reallyJun 15 19:13
schestowitzConsoles seem to get a lot of the gaming action these days. Larger TV sets in the living room and alll... Wiimote..Jun 15 19:13
maxstirnerbacon: games -> "meatspace" (as youd say)Jun 15 19:13
maxstirnerI feel Novell position on interop/mixed environments is a positioning gamble. It looks good in current climate, but they may get overtaken on the left by more radically FOSS sellersJun 15 19:16
schestowitzHere is my worry..Jun 15 19:16
schestowitzRed Hat too realises that almost all servers will be virtualised (virtual, not physical, esp. with increased capacity).Jun 15 19:17
maxstirnerI think they're the ones who got to worry reallyJun 15 19:17
RogerBaconwhat the big deal about virtualisation?Jun 15 19:17
schestowitzNow, here's the thing. While Red Hat foresees taking over 50% of them all (partly at the least... Linux already had 91%+ in HPC if you count virtualised).Jun 15 19:17
maxstirnerit just depends on the pace, but if you permit i'll dare predict ten years and noone will pay for licensing anymoreJun 15 19:17
schestowitzNovell partnered with Microsoft for hypervisor exclusivity. They want to screw Red Hat and pick up royalties.Jun 15 19:18
maxstirnerI dont understand much about that.. isnt there a foss virtualisation box?Jun 15 19:18
schestowitz<RogerBacon>: see this new article: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/sof... ( Novell: Virtualization's nothing to fear )Jun 15 19:19
schestowitzYes, <maxstirner>, there is, but Microsoft nicked Xen and it now sort of snubs all by Novell. It also wants to prebundle to 'compete' with VMWate, using others like Citrix. It builds an anti Red hat and anti-VMWare alliance in a sense. All camps unite. Microsoft recruits even its pet 'analysts' to do the FUD.Jun 15 19:20
maxstirnerBut isnt the virtualisation bit rather simple to implement, i.e. hard to keep hold on market share?Jun 15 19:21
schestowitzThere is an issue here. Actually more than one.Jun 15 19:23
schestowitzFirst of all, Microsoft uses swpatents and restrictions for 'privileged' (reward and punishment) access and secondly, it relies on careless IT people who will just use whatever comes with Windows Server.Jun 15 19:24
RogerBaconthx for the link schestowitzJun 15 19:24
schestowitzNo problem.Jun 15 19:24
maxstirnerschestowitz doesnt this just mean you get several OS-instances per box, as server OS is rather efficient for a standard intel box?Jun 15 19:25
maxstirneri see..Jun 15 19:25
schestowitzYes, but here is another issue.Jun 15 19:25
maxstirner"the advent of virtualization means companies that have traditionally limited licensing policies on software may have to change that."Jun 15 19:25
maxstirnerdidnt MS even liberate the number of virtualised instances per license for ten minutes at some stage?Jun 15 19:25
schestowitzI vividly recall that shortly after he had signed the deal, Hovsepian said that SUSE will run _UNDER_ Windows, i.e. they want to require datacentres to buy Windows. As in... pay for something always, get a free O/S _only if you need something extra_. Hovsepian is a vassal of Ballmer.Jun 15 19:26
maxstirnerI find people virtualising linux UNDER windows rather counterintuitive :DJun 15 19:27
maxstirnerEven the other way round to run photoshop or whatever seems a bit oddJun 15 19:28
schestowitzI don't know about limiting by time, but they used Vista editions to play the discrimination game before antitrust forced them to revert back to older days. Microsoft then pretended it did this out of good will, having lies about 'security reasons'.Jun 15 19:28
maxstirnerI just recall some news that one could have an unlimited number of isntances per license of MSJun 15 19:29
maxstirnerthen they retracted itJun 15 19:29
schestowitzPrecisely. Wait until people blame SLES for poor uptime. Later on they'll blame WS08, which by the way, according to Microsoft's puppet at Yankee Group (Laura DiDio) has far worse uptime than WS03.Jun 15 19:29
RogerBaconany source for that claim ?Jun 15 19:30
RogerBaconim interested to see that article :PJun 15 19:30
schestowitzWhich one? Which claim I mean?Jun 15 19:30
maxstirnerschestowitz, the uptime probably :DJun 15 19:30
RogerBaconyepJun 15 19:31
schestowitzWell, WS08 is Vista+tweaks, so it figures. Windows 7apourware (AKA ME3) will be the same thing -- more like a Vista Service pack with the Vista name buried for good. I'll fetch the article.Jun 15 19:31
schestowitzLinux on the server sees reliability gains ( http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39... ). Also see this new one for laughs: http://www.computerworld.com/action/shar...Jun 15 19:33
maxstirnerend of bloatware is nigh. buying into a linux distro and leveraging their supposed IP really best strategy from MS perspective at this pointJun 15 19:33
schestowitzThey sell XP for $18 now. I can't wait until the next quarterly report!Jun 15 19:34
maxstirnerthey made some announcements of modular win7 and all that, then they changed to modified vista "trying to make it a bit faster with same hardware req as vista"Jun 15 19:34
maxstirnerYeah that shark article is rather funny :DJun 15 19:34
maxstirnerIn line with what i was saying re: the suits versus the tech "hippies" as wellJun 15 19:35
schestowitzNo, no. They cancelled all of it.Jun 15 19:35
maxstirnerthey cancelled all of the modular isnt itJun 15 19:35
schestowitzNo modularity, no light kernell, nothing... just promises, compromises, and apologies.Jun 15 19:36
schestowitzNot just "hippies". When all else ("hippies" stereotype) fails, resort to "zealots".Jun 15 19:37
RogerBacontoo bad im using asp.net :(Jun 15 19:37
maxstirner"fanboi"?Jun 15 19:37
schestowitzI heard they teach children that stuff. My brother was taught (*ahem* trained) that at school.Jun 15 19:37
schestowitzI read earlier today about the rise of anti-Linux sites.Jun 15 19:38
schestowitzDan Lyons spread another slur: freetards. He's the guy who always predicated (shills) in Forbes that SCO would win.Jun 15 19:38
maxstirnerThe it's free so it can't be good instinct kicks in as well of course. the indoctrination worked..Jun 15 19:39
RogerBaconSCO :/Jun 15 19:39
maxstirnerIf theyre fighting you at the blogosphere level its desperate timesJun 15 19:40
schestowitzWell...Jun 15 19:40
maxstirnerI work with lots of documents so I followed the MSOXML stuff intently. The number of shills was rather impressiveJun 15 19:40
schestowitzI think we discussed this before you came back to IRC today. Let me find it.Jun 15 19:40
schestowitz17:14 <schestowitz> OBS: demonisation in the press...  http://blogs.smh.com.au/mash... "Mac zealots," it says. Always mind these words. Religious propaganda term.Jun 15 19:41
maxstirnerI would guess (as commented on your site) that they just make all employees spend say 50% of their time blogging/commentingJun 15 19:41
maxstirneri heard mac zealots before and they are rather vocal group (with a growing market share as well)Jun 15 19:42
maxstirneri do find people like that mindless, boring consumer types mostly i got to sayJun 15 19:42
schestowitzLater on in the morning I found another blogger who called us zealots for rejecting Microsoft codecs. Homer refuted in his blog.Jun 15 19:42
maxstirnerwhen someone annoys me at a party with their iphone or ipod or whatever i usually run awayJun 15 19:42
maxstirnerwmv is just shite :DJun 15 19:42
schestowitzEarlier on I corresponded with Sam Varghese (the iTWire journalist who wrote about this incident).Jun 15 19:43
maxstirnerthey pay a silly, silly, silly margin on the hardware for their macs just to have a pretty version of BSDJun 15 19:43
maxstirnerI like his workJun 15 19:43
schestowitzOLPC stuff too?Jun 15 19:44
maxstirnerschestowitz, sorry dont follow, he wrote about the olpc?Jun 15 19:44
schestowitzThe Waugh vendetta tends to look bad.Jun 15 19:44
schestowitzHe has taken a piss out of the project for many months (last time yesterday)Jun 15 19:45
schestowitzThe same goes for Beranger (Radu)Jun 15 19:45
maxstirnerI see the article now....Jun 15 19:48
maxstirnerI have to say i do feel critical about the olpc effort in some senses. I don't feel its appropriate technology..Jun 15 19:49
schestowitzIt's like a chorus: One [x] per [y] Child. He runs a series. Always slapped in the reader's rating, although that can be gamed easily.Jun 15 19:49
schestowitzThat's partly because the market changed and the project lost momentum (both things related). The unit was supposed to cost $95 and have huge meshes at time when a cheap laptop cost $500.Jun 15 19:49
maxstirnerit did break down the laptop margins nicely, that's why we're seeing the pricing revolution in the "netbook" range nowJun 15 19:50
schestowitzIntel sort of liaised with Asus and did ClassMate (even sold it for a loss) to take the wind out of OLPC (=Fedora, AMD) sails.Jun 15 19:50
maxstirneryes, they tried to overtake it on the right.. and diJun 15 19:51
maxstirnerdJun 15 19:51
schestowitzI have it quite well documented in BN with many references I've collected since 2006, I think. Microsoft too sabotaged it since day 1, along with Intel. PaulO/BillG axis they call it. They are friends.Jun 15 19:52
maxstirnerIt didnt really work. It's a difficult topicJun 15 19:52
maxstirnerI think a lot of the issues with development aid and post-colonial interference mechanisms comes into itJun 15 19:53
schestowitzYes, for sure. Altruism is with Mary Lou and some others who left. You know, she almost died working so hard for the project, but Beranger criticised her for getting a patent and starting a spinoff.Jun 15 19:54
maxstirnerThere's lots of idealism around, but you end up dealing with some of the most corrupt elites in the world. Case in point Nigeria and the "craving for windows". Education minister prince so-and-so sure seems to loooooove windows. i just don't know why.Jun 15 19:54
maxstirnerironically some of the work may live on through the GPL/sugar interfaceJun 15 19:55
maxstirnergotta go address RL issues ;)..Jun 15 19:56
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schestowitzJust before you left I was poised to say that Nigeria is also the nation where Microsoft bribed an official last year ($400,000) to have a Mandriva agreement retracted.Jun 15 20:48
maxstirnerofficially? :D it's a rather sad state of affairs really.. the poorest nations have the worst distribution of wealth.. hence the banana republic effectJun 15 20:49
schestowitzWell, the media forgot about it but I never have (I keep bringing that up again). Mandriva's folks should be applauded for keeping an eye on this. Microsoft did damage control by renaming this 'marketing help'. It's a perfect lie that they try all the time and then get caught.Jun 15 20:51
maxstirneris that the one where the guy wrote an open letter?Jun 15 20:51
maxstirner(project leader)Jun 15 20:51
schestowitzCEO you mean? Open letter to Steve Ballmer. There were followups. Mandriva won at the end. The official refused to give his name.Jun 15 20:52
maxstirnerthis is typical for large corporations. german law prohibits bribery of foreign officials for instance, and siemens was found to have a policy of paying 10% (later 5%) in "consultancy payments" to "consultants" who were somehow able to influence results of public tenderJun 15 20:53
maxstirnerthis for massive electricity generators in middle east mostlyJun 15 20:53
maxstirnerone shouldnt be surprised ;)Jun 15 20:53
maxstirneri read the letter back then.. via lxer probJun 15 20:53
schestowitzSiemans was caught doing lots of that. Wait...Jun 15 20:53
maxstirnerI think its the rule rather than the exception. Scandals are just glimpses of the underlying reality in this sphere...Jun 15 20:54
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu... ( Siemens stained by multimillion bribery scandal )Jun 15 20:54
schestowitzhttp://www.heise.de/engli... ( Bribery scandal: Siemens fined 201 million euros )Jun 15 20:54
schestowitzhttp://www.channelregister.co.uk/20... ( MPs rap BBC over Siemens deal )Jun 15 20:55
ed_ahoj!Jun 15 20:55
ed_i works for them bothJun 15 20:55
schestowitzTraditionally it's an MS shop, but they adopt the GNU now.Jun 15 20:55
maxstirnerIts actually due to their listing on the US stock market that they got fined first, they appear to have all these inconvenient accountability rulesJun 15 20:55
ed_http://www.flickr.com/photos/73272...Jun 15 20:55
schestowitzhttp://www.heise.de/english/news... ( Siemens to invest in MontaVista )Jun 15 20:56
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/ne... ( Siemens IP-STB designs run Linux, do HDTV, DVB-T )Jun 15 20:56
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2... ( Fujitsu Siemens Plans goes [Linux] PC for the over 50s )Jun 15 20:56
schestowitzhttp://www.computerweekly.com/Articles... ( Siemens switches from Unix to Linux to run critical SAP systems )Jun 15 20:56
schestowitzhttp://finchannel.com/index.php?option=com_con... ( Siemens Develops PC-based Profinet IO Software Controller for Linux Systems )Jun 15 20:56
maxstirnerI did see the link on your link collection, would be stupid not to!Jun 15 20:56
schestowitzhttp://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2489 ( Siemens gets serious about open source )Jun 15 20:57
schestowitz<maxstirner>: true about it being a glimpse. The same goes for data leaks, breaches and theft.Jun 15 20:57
ed_the bbc use a lot of SunOS. but iplayer is mainly linux servers... well, it's entirely linux. it's a siemens venture that the bbc useJun 15 20:57
maxstirnerbut their corporate policy is just a corporate policy.. like the MSOXML/ISO actionJun 15 20:57
schestowitzGartner (Microsoft pals) confirmed this recently.Jun 15 20:58
schestowitzThe BBC uses OpenSUSE in-house.Jun 15 20:58
ed_someJun 15 20:58
maxstirnerthe bbc vids actually work for me now. initially they had some absurd formatJun 15 20:58
ed_the bbc web servers are sunosJun 15 20:58
ed_things that make up the web farmJun 15 20:58
ed_the cgi-perl stuff is another matterJun 15 20:59
schestowitzThe BBC is hopeless on the media front. A former Microsoft manager now runs the division.Jun 15 20:59
schestowitzDigital media that is.Jun 15 20:59
ed_that would be red beeJun 15 20:59
maxstirneroh dear :DJun 15 20:59
schestowitzErik Huggers. Was there in EU antitrust for Microsoft.Jun 15 20:59
ed_its not so much like thatJun 15 20:59
ed_the chap who did the iplayer r&d isn't so closed formatsJun 15 21:00
schestowitzed_, how so?Jun 15 21:00
ed_because he wants to move away from the current systemJun 15 21:00
schestowitzI'm not sure if that was Ashley Highfield.Jun 15 21:00
ed_iplayer 2.0 is about to launchJun 15 21:00
ed_no, same first initial thoughJun 15 21:00
schestowitzFor Linux? :-D :-DJun 15 21:00
ed_one week after the initial launchJun 15 21:00
schestowitzThey'll support Tamaguchi before they support the #1 rival of their media partner Microsoft.Jun 15 21:01
ed_so i've been toldJun 15 21:01
ed_its not just about linuxJun 15 21:01
maxstirnertamagochi heheheheJun 15 21:01
ed_the iphone was a huge headacheJun 15 21:01
ed_my colleagues have helped do a lot of stuff to try and identify legit iphone clientsJun 15 21:01
schestowitzWhy don't they support BSD and Linux?Jun 15 21:01
ed_well, redux does :-)Jun 15 21:02
schestowitzNeelie Kroes could take them to the chamber for some probing.Jun 15 21:02
schestowitzI hear they have vicious penguins down there. With feathers... for tickling.Jun 15 21:02
maxstirner:DJun 15 21:02
ed_no body expects the rackJun 15 21:03
ed_'show them the rack'Jun 15 21:03
schestowitzNo, seriously, complaints were filed. Same with BECTA. The UK Gov is in cahoots, so people must turn to the EC.Jun 15 21:03
ed_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imag...Jun 15 21:03
schestowitzIf it runs Windows, it's a wreck, not a rackJun 15 21:03
schestowitzThe BBC was dismissive.Jun 15 21:04
ed_i was thinking of the spanish inquisition scene with the freezer rackJun 15 21:04
schestowitzSHeley may have been kicked out for aggravating Linux users and BBC News ignored the protests.Jun 15 21:04
ed_yeah, but it's not all as sinister as it appears. the server infrastructure is all unix basedJun 15 21:04
ed_its usually just due to the streaming stuff.Jun 15 21:05
schestowitzWhy the resistance to change? Another Newham? Or might it be because the BBC is still GNUphobix?Jun 15 21:05
ed_its because of license feesJun 15 21:05
ed_as far as i knowJun 15 21:05
ed_we shouldn't be paying internet back bone fees for USA and RU to see contentJun 15 21:06
schestowitzThey make promises though... empty ones.Jun 15 21:06
ed_well, siemens might have to pay that, since we look after the bbc techJun 15 21:06
schestowitzYes, but if they want to restrict access they can still deliver something for GNU/Linux.Jun 15 21:06
schestowitzEven *sudders* proprietary with DRM.Jun 15 21:07
ed_i don't have any problems with iplayer content from hereJun 15 21:07
ed_the RAM stuff yeahJun 15 21:07
schestowitzHow's the BBC-Siemans scandal coming along, I wonder. It was a fiasco at the time.Jun 15 21:07
ed_its all about to change anywaysJun 15 21:07
ed_what scandal?Jun 15 21:07
ed_didn't show up on my radarJun 15 21:08
schestowitzSiemens (don't mind the typos):http://www.channelregi...Jun 15 21:08
ed_not really that surprisingJun 15 21:09
ed_given that 80% of IT contracts are 50% short of their promissesJun 15 21:10
schestowitzI have not read it for a year, so I can't recall the gory details. There was another oopise with Skype, IIRC. The BBC will see budgets reduced. Confidence was lost, AFAICT.Jun 15 21:10
schestowitzBECTA, the NHS, and the BBC compete for incompetence of the year. Any year.Jun 15 21:11
ed_life is full of missery in the IT worldJun 15 21:11
schestowitzYes, hard profession. Most stressful too for programmers.Jun 15 21:11
ed_and windows jockeysJun 15 21:11
schestowitzBeing a 'box booter' is no joy.Jun 15 21:11
ed_well, he who clicks the most winsJun 15 21:12
schestowitzWhen I did interviews with Google I realised that the jobs I could get there is just scripting or monitoring server. And that's no joy! It's processing, not thinking.Jun 15 21:12
schestowitzHe who drolls the most too.Jun 15 21:13
ed_if you want thinking then work in r&d, but it's not the best paidJun 15 21:13
schestowitzGoogle is more than happy with its own 'precious' idea I think, but they also approached me (twice) for a software engineering job. Then again, the search/ad duo is all they really have that's useful. The rest if brand-driven. I reckon also that just like IBM, Novell and Microsoft they'll increasingly shift to the east.Jun 15 21:14
schestowitzJob assurance in software engineering is poor, especially long-term.Jun 15 21:15
ed_yeah that's when the job turns from inventive to scriptable processJun 15 21:16
schestowitzI suppose we have gone a tad off-topic, but come to think of Novell again. I'll tell you what I know. Hundreds of Novell jobs were moved to India with many more to come. Google now complains about the US workforce just like Microsoft. I reckon they want Visas.Jun 15 21:16
maxstirnerthe pampered western workers as noam chomsky puts itJun 15 21:18
ed_i do remember the whole novel outsourcing thing. but to be honest, there's no point, the jobs are not that great when they are easily out sourced, the basis being that the language communication over head has to be minimal in order to make a profit out of itJun 15 21:18
maxstirnerthey do speak english in indiaJun 15 21:19
maxstirnerbtw :DJun 15 21:19
ed_someJun 15 21:19
schestowitz<maxstirner> : "'knowledge' workers"Jun 15 21:19
ed_in a electronic translator styleJun 15 21:19
schestowitzNice work for exploiters like those on the 99th floor running Nike.Jun 15 21:19
schestowitz*wordJun 15 21:20
maxstirneri remember they made one of the first digital phonebooks in germany by having it copied manually in india in 92. i guess prices have increased since then.Jun 15 21:20
schestowitzGPL documentation violation in China... tube map... seen recently.Jun 15 21:21
maxstirnerif china doesnt care about copyright, how would they understand copyleft? :DJun 15 21:21
schestowitzThat's the problem for FOSS there. BTW, this made me *LOL*: http://www.fsdaily.com/Commun...Jun 15 21:21
maxstirneri see :DJun 15 21:23
maxstirneri dont do mobiles anywayJun 15 21:23
schestowitzMe neither. Did you ever. I quit in 20033.Jun 15 21:24
maxstirneri had them at uni 98-02, but i always had the cheapest pay as yougo brick which usually staid homeJun 15 21:24
maxstirneri have a borrowed one here for basic communicationsJun 15 21:24
maxstirneri sometimes carry it on the drinking night out to coordinate locationsJun 15 21:25
schestowitzThere's also the health implications, I suppose and believe.Jun 15 21:25
maxstirnersince everybody sits in front of box all day theres no point otherwise...Jun 15 21:25
maxstirneri always used to have headset thingie, my usage really is minimal nowJun 15 21:26
maxstirneri do believe its wrong.. i even worry about my wirelessJun 15 21:26
maxstirner20th C cancer epidemic for all sorts of reasons thoughJun 15 21:26
schestowitzThey still try to define heavy/moderate use, as if getting a little heart attack makes one benign. Same with microwaves, which Sweden apparently bans.Jun 15 21:26
maxstirneris that so? sweden most civilised country in euJun 15 21:27
maxstirnerif it wasnt for the dire weather situation i'd be long goneJun 15 21:27
schestowitzPeople want convenience. They sometimes accept radiation for it and broadcast strong signals 3cm off their most valuable organ.Jun 15 21:27
maxstirner:D nicely put..Jun 15 21:27
schestowitzThanks. :-)Jun 15 21:27
maxstirnerits the plastics as well, its all wrong reallyJun 15 21:28
maxstirneri read an interview with some  academic in the US, she runs the only centre for the academic study of cancer preventionJun 15 21:28
schestowitzWhat about the plastics?Jun 15 21:28
maxstirnerall the research is in treatment etc.Jun 15 21:28
schestowitzThen you have the global warnming deniers equiv.Jun 15 21:29
maxstirnerwell she said in the interview she doesnt have much money so all she did was build her departmental officeJun 15 21:29
maxstirnerwithout carcinogensJun 15 21:29
maxstirnermajor challenge she saidJun 15 21:29
schestowitzBig mobile phone makers and carriers must give the illusion, using some faux 'studies' that all is fine and dandy. There's always some sucker or wishful thinker drawn in.Jun 15 21:29
maxstirnerconsider that modern consumer society/economy consists of pushing bits of plastic around, its impossible to discussJun 15 21:30
schestowitzPrevention vs treatment. I see.Jun 15 21:30
maxstirnertreatment highly profitable but super complicated, success is limitedJun 15 21:30
schestowitzMicrosoft and Novell too have their share of 'studies' and press releases. And zombies like Asay who believe it.Jun 15 21:31
maxstirnerpreventive cancer research impossible due to the imperatives of industryJun 15 21:31
schestowitzOpen source! hear hear! Novell says it does well, do it must be true!! Hear hear!Jun 15 21:31
maxstirnerit took 25 years to establish cancer link with cigarettes against a limited capital interest (small group)Jun 15 21:31
maxstirnermobile phones is very similarJun 15 21:31
maxstirnerthis all widely off-topic obviously..Jun 15 21:31
schestowitzLong-term, just like cigs. We shall live and find out, I guess.Jun 15 21:32
schestowitzYes, I try to nudge it in the right direction. ;-)Jun 15 21:32
maxstirnersomeones gonna do the coughing and dying at some stage.. like that marlborough cowboyJun 15 21:32
schestowitzIt's also offencive in ways to users of cellphones.Jun 15 21:32
maxstirnereither youre exagerrating widely or joking ;)Jun 15 21:33
schestowitzNo, I was serious.Jun 15 21:33
schestowitzPeople don't like to hear such stuff.Jun 15 21:33
maxstirnerboycott novell facebook group?Jun 15 21:33
schestowitzYeterday at the gym a friend of mine got pissed off because I explained to him about all the corruption.Jun 15 21:34
maxstirneryes.. but speculation must be possibleJun 15 21:34
maxstirnerwhat corruption? :DJun 15 21:34
schestowitzCould do, yes... but Facebook is Microsoft-bound, I think.Jun 15 21:34
maxstirnerthere was a beautiful case in the uk where the mp paid his son for university "research" in geographyJun 15 21:34
maxstirneri think MS cant afford FB, its as overvalued as google even before the IPOJun 15 21:34
maxstirnerdidnt they buy 0.5% valuing it at x billions the other day?Jun 15 21:35
schestowitzWell, the guy is retired now. He's a biologist (2 PhDs) and he's aware of the issues in the world, but he doesn't want to hear about them. I must have depressed him.Jun 15 21:35
maxstirnerits really bad when people look at you like youre some crazy evangelist isnt itJun 15 21:35
maxstirneri regularly get that in my post-catholic surroundings here when i start going on about the advantages of legalised abortionJun 15 21:36
schestowitzSpeaking of which, I recently found out about people 'buying' knighthood. Kickbacks of sorts. This shatters the credibility of this system, just like ISO's (and OSI)Jun 15 21:36
schestowitzMicrosoft just put a placeholder on FB to prevent a Google land grab.Jun 15 21:36
maxstirnerthere were loads of scandals over the years werent there? the party makes some list of recommendations or whatever, and the party needs donationsJun 15 21:37
schestowitzBut FB's founder is a pal (proper) of  Microsoft execs, Ozzie included, IIRC.Jun 15 21:37
maxstirnerorkut is poor aesthetically, i wonder why they dont sort it out sometimesJun 15 21:37
maxstirnerdidnt he supposedly steal someone elseJun 15 21:37
maxstirner's ideas to make it up?Jun 15 21:37
schestowitzBill Gates... Si Bill Gates. Seen the queen's face.Jun 15 21:37
maxstirnerSire!Jun 15 21:38
schestowitzOn various occasions when the man commits crime (even recently) Brits from the NG where I post regularly say it should be retracted. He's a shame to this system.Jun 15 21:38
maxstirnerwhat has he ever done for the uk apart from bleed their balance of trade for royalty paymentsJun 15 21:38
maxstirnerNG?Jun 15 21:39
schestowitzFB invented *nothing*.Jun 15 21:39
schestowitzThat stuff goes back to the previous decade. Hype and balloons.Jun 15 21:39
maxstirnerthe system is a joke anyway, oldest democracy in world with inbreds doing the legislatingJun 15 21:39
schestowitzAs for honours for money, Cambridge is similar. You get precedennce if a parent was there. I learned this when I applied  fora  PhD there.Jun 15 21:40
maxstirnerthen gates did the africa fund just like henry ford back in the day and suddenly everybody thinks he's an angelJun 15 21:40
schestowitzNG=NewsGroup (USENET)Jun 15 21:40
maxstirnerwhat on undergrad as well?Jun 15 21:40
maxstirneri know they got massively disproportional public school intake quota due to social factors in preselection interviewsJun 15 21:41
schestowitzNo, not undegrad, I think, because of the way the application form is constructed. It's like... put you Cam. dynasty here please for *ahem* preferential considerations.Jun 15 21:41
schestowitzVery class-based. Divisional, segregated too. But that seems to have always been the face. Jun 15 21:42
maxstirnerbiritsh english, the only language where you can tell social class by accentJun 15 21:42
schestowitzI sometimes wonder (the index aside) if the UK is more corrupt than the USJun 15 21:42
maxstirnerpreferential on phd application?Jun 15 21:42
maxstirnerit depends on your definition..Jun 15 21:43
schestowitzAnd the US is not a high standard. It's somewhere between Colombia and Spain.Jun 15 21:43
maxstirnerwhen is a society of friendly masons a conspiracy against the general publicJun 15 21:43
schestowitzRe: accent, location too, but the two are not mutually-exclusiveJun 15 21:43
maxstirneradam smith said "two businessmen together = conspiracy against the public"Jun 15 21:44
schestowitzWell...Jun 15 21:44
maxstirnerIn the uk I've seen scandals on the 50K GBP for a minister beforeJun 15 21:44
schestowitzI do know about the Freemasons in the US, based on the History Channel.Jun 15 21:44
schestowitzGermany seems connected too.Jun 15 21:44
maxstirnerI'm not scared of the freemasons, theyre just another business lobbyJun 15 21:44
schestowitzBut going back centuries ago too.Jun 15 21:45
maxstirnerI know a knight of the uk chapter actually, aristocratic typeJun 15 21:45
maxstirnerI don't really see any difference between a masonic lodge and the business school alumni groupJun 15 21:45
schestowitzAnd if I dare go in another direction, BillG's family is among the Bilderbergers.Jun 15 21:46
maxstirner:DJun 15 21:46
maxstirnernow we're in alex jones territory!Jun 15 21:46
schestowitzSo are Blair (who is said to have become PM thanks to them). And Brown too, I think. RMS called him "Gordon Clown" in last months talk (here in Manchester).Jun 15 21:46
schestowitzWell, well..Jun 15 21:46
maxstirnerscull and bones facebook group at GWB's uni ;)Jun 15 21:47
schestowitzI haven't a doubt in my mind that Bill and Tony had more than just tea when they invited one another to each others' house.Jun 15 21:47
schestowitzI mean, some of it is publicly visible too.Jun 15 21:47
schestowitzOh no! Not that far, no.Jun 15 21:47
maxstirnerI remember when blair met richard murdoch before the 98 election. After that, the murdoch newspaper all magically turned into labour party loversJun 15 21:48
maxstirnerThat's concentrated power at workJun 15 21:48
schestowitzSome groups are real, with real evidence. Microsoft + Big Media is very substatiable. It's public knowledge.Jun 15 21:48
maxstirnerThe foreign ownership rules for UK media were changed afterwards as well... for murdoch to buy some tv channel or whateverJun 15 21:48
schestowitzRupert and chaps were accused of AstroTurfing recently.Jun 15 21:49
maxstirnerheheheheJun 15 21:49
schestowitzIn fact, they even employed a hacker. They got busted badly.Jun 15 21:49
maxstirnerastroturfing on behalf of whom?Jun 15 21:49
schestowitzI like the fact that this made even Associated Press. It's no speculation. It's well documented and I have copies.Jun 15 21:49
maxstirnerthe first round of wikipedia editing from pentagon ip scandals was superbJun 15 21:49
schestowitzThe AstroTurf was just an accusation. The hackers thing was real.Jun 15 21:50
schestowitzThe US military too. Guatemala Bay. They said Casto was a transvestite.Jun 15 21:50
schestowitz*Castro; all libel, of course.Jun 15 21:50
maxstirnerfunnyJun 15 21:51
maxstirnerhave you seen road to guantanamo bay?Jun 15 21:51
schestowitzI can find the articles about the evidence (IP routing that they do is traceable)Jun 15 21:51
schestowitzI haven't no, but I read the Wikipedia article about it some hours ago because of an article about McCain.Jun 15 21:51
maxstirnermust-see, is superb, couple of british with pakistani background get caught up in middle of revenge for 911 bombingJun 15 21:52
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maxstirneryou can be assured that the NSA will be logging from mention of title of dvd above onwards ;)Jun 15 21:53
schestowitzLet them. I sometimes add keyword just for some extra noise.Jun 15 21:53
maxstirnerSo what was that about the hacker?Jun 15 21:54
schestowitzGive me a moment to finish something and I can find it...Jun 15 21:55
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu...Jun 15 21:57
maxstirnerthxJun 15 21:57
maxstirner"cash hidden in electronic devices mailed from Canada"Jun 15 21:58
schestowitzI didn't see *that*. But most important to remember: generalise. These are the isolated cases where they get busted.Jun 15 21:59
schestowitzExtrapolate carefully.Jun 15 21:59
maxstirnerthat's how i feel about these things, journalism always seems to focus on the little accidental surfacing of the underlying concrete realityJun 15 22:00
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maxstirnerthen the "scandal" dies down, and its all "move along.. nothing to be seen here"Jun 15 22:00
schestowitzYes.Jun 15 22:01
schestowitzOne thing I learned is that bringing back old stories (contextually) adds magnitude. Sometimes the old stories are more important than the news.Jun 15 22:02
schestowitzMicrosoft relies on rewriting the OOXML Grand Fiasco history at the moment. It lies to the press.Jun 15 22:02
maxstirnerThey slag you off for your internal cross-linkage.. i can see you're working hard to establish long-running stories from the little leaks and symptomsJun 15 22:03
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maxstirnerThe average reader's attention span and the typical modus of interacting wth blogs could also be a hindrance to your styleJun 15 22:04
schestowitzIt helps me find stuff. I'd link to external stuff directly, but it takes longer (for me) and also risks 404s.Jun 15 22:04
schestowitzI keep blog items short. If people are not sure, they have links to follow. Old-style journalism is backed by no link. It's like old newspapers. Not even bibliography.Jun 15 22:05
maxstirnerI do like it, I just think people aren't receptive to it.. tv-educated generation isnt fond of clicking back and forth to understand blog ;)Jun 15 22:05
schestowitzWell, some people won't read the 50=page PDFs in Groklaw either. They just want a fancy sensationalist headline, which she rarely gives.Jun 15 22:06
schestowitzThat's why Groklaw hardly makes FP ijn Digg.Jun 15 22:06
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maxstirnertheres something super convoluted about the wiki/Forum system used on groklawJun 15 22:07
maxstirneri never manage to navigate itJun 15 22:07
schestowitzIt's very bad. Very annoying and hard to track your comments too, so I hardly do so.Jun 15 22:08
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schestowitzGeeklog is a big of a dinosaur and Andy Updegrove uses it too. I don't know the back end.Jun 15 22:09
maxstirneri scroll down from main story, and topic changes, so i clck on the "open all posts" or whatever and doesnt workJun 15 22:09
maxstirnerso although i know shes a champion and hero in the area of FOSS, i dont really browse around there muchJun 15 22:09
schestowitzI think her software becomes a hindrance.Jun 15 22:10
schestowitzThere's hardly even a notion of tags or categories.Jun 15 22:10
maxstirnerI don't know much about that.. I am trying to put together a multi-language page and its a nightmare.. first I used the much-hyped joomla, but will prob go to drupal nowJun 15 22:11
maxstirnerI do find the groklaw layout and software preferable to the classical bb-style forums, that design is just tiredJun 15 22:12
schestowitzWordPress is good with unicode and all. I helped resolve a bug related to this some years ago.Jun 15 22:12
maxstirnernoooxml has got a lovely modern wiki system styled up as a portal, i enjoyed commenting thereJun 15 22:12
schestowitzI stay out of phpbb for good. It got my personal Web site compromised, along with half a million others.Jun 15 22:13
schestowitzWikidot. Does anyone outside FFII use it?Jun 15 22:13
maxstirnersecurity flaw? you can always be the unlucky one who's got the unpatched/undiscovered php issueJun 15 22:13
maxstirnerI'm not sure, I see the noooxml guys offer a (free) poland-based hosting service based on itJun 15 22:14
schestowitzYes, but it wasn't their first such fluke. Others on the shared servers were victims before.Jun 15 22:14
schestowitzThe Munchkins had a field trip at my expense.Jun 15 22:14
schestowitzIt's GPLv3edJun 15 22:14
schestowitzAmong the early adopters in factlJun 15 22:15
maxstirnerwikidot?Jun 15 22:15
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schestowitz.Yes. I wrote about it in BN at the time. Briefly.Jun 15 22:15
schestowitzzoobab from this channel should know, but he's idle. ping  *zoobab*Jun 15 22:16
maxstirnernice.. how do you feel about the AGPL3 issue? RMS doesnt seem to be too concerned, or he thinks its technically advantageous?Jun 15 22:16
schestowitzHuh? I think he is actually quite concerned. In May 1st I was at his talk where he had arguments about it.Jun 15 22:17
schestowitzSome in the audience were a little hostile.Jun 15 22:17
maxstirnerbut gpl3 dropped an affero-style clause during drafting didnt it?Jun 15 22:17
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schestowitzI can't remember/don't know. I'm sure some were unhappy.Jun 15 22:21
schestowitzI also know that Asay has always whined about that stuff. Google is being a bit pretentious by depriving devs from the right to make AGPL bigger than GPL and thus a de facto new GPL.Jun 15 22:22
maxstirnerthe googles prob have the biggest vested interest of the lot in the areaJun 15 22:22
maxstirneri've read some people whining on and on about how stupid affero are and how the agpl will destroy linux/the world and this and thatJun 15 22:23
schestowitzPeople speak on behalf of interests. Most people don't  care about or understand freedom.Jun 15 22:24
maxstirnernot realising own collective stake in that greatest of projects :DJun 15 22:25
maxstirnerlooking back the windows monopoly will surely be remembered as the dark ages of computingJun 15 22:25
maxstirnera monopoly so deeply entrenched people werent able to even conceive the existence of alternativesJun 15 22:26
maxstirneror smell the scandalous nature of the bundled desktopJun 15 22:26
schestowitzTrue. I've just posted a lump of links to BN. I'm going to bed now.Jun 15 22:26
maxstirnernice to chat, enjoyJun 15 22:27
schestowitzBe back soon though. Maybe in 7 hours.Jun 15 22:27
maxstirner:)Jun 15 22:27
schestowitzSleep deprivation. Not good, I know.Jun 15 22:27
maxstirner7.5 hrs minimumJun 15 22:27
schestowitzNo, 6 max.Jun 15 22:28
maxstirnerthey say 7 hours will do but thats all slaveryJun 15 22:28
maxstirnerYou mean medically speaking 6 max?? Or your personal habitJun 15 22:28
maxstirneranyway.. let you go..Jun 15 22:30
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-dmwaters-{global notice} Good day folks, We apologize for the stability issues at the moment, it appears that we have a kiddie who wants to play some rather nasty games. I thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!Jun 15 22:40
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*irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to [H]omerJun 15 22:49

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