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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 26-28th, 2008



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schestowitzMicrosoft's partners in India try to pass software patents now... http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Infy-...Jul 26 17:45
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schestowitzanivar: seen the news on swpats in India?Jul 27 08:09
anivarschestowitz:   I am following it nowJul 27 08:10
anivarI forgot to write you. But send some clips to PJJul 27 08:10
anivar(groklaw)Jul 27 08:10
schestowitzShe caught a couple.Jul 27 08:10
anivaryea. i send thoseJul 27 08:11
schestowitzThere are other incidents in India (Microsoft dirty ticks), so I'm going to write a long post about i.Jul 27 08:12
schestowitz*itJul 27 08:12
anivargood .. waiting to read itJul 27 08:13
schestowitzIt's actually something a reader asked for: a summary of Microsoft's exploitation of developing nations.Jul 27 08:15
schestowitzIt'll be mostly links and summaries.Jul 27 08:15
anivarschestowitz: goodJul 27 08:16
anivarschestowitz:  BTW i am now involved in someway to create a Global south civil society coalition in upcoming Internet Governance forum in Hyderabad , India ( December 3-6) .. I feel the existing global south unity on NOOOXML need to be used on forums like thisJul 27 08:19
schestowitzThat's excellent. OSIndia also proposed something to override ISO a week ago. He was enthusiastically cited by many (mainly ODF/OOXML bloggers).Jul 27 08:22
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anivarschestowitz:  see this interestingdiscussion on FSF-friends  list of FSF India http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-frien...Jul 27 08:24
anivartitled Futility of going after ISOJul 27 08:24
anivarread whole threadJul 27 08:26
anivarhttp://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-...Jul 27 08:27
*schestowitz reads http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friend...Jul 27 08:27
schestowitzWhat's needed is a reference implementation of pool of source code. The idea of standards assumed totally independent work (automobiles for example). That's just why there's incompatibility when it comes to terminology in the proprietary software universe. Free software has APIs.Jul 27 08:30
anivarschestowitz: I agree completelyJul 27 08:31
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anivarschestowitz: i hope you watched this M$ IEEE alliance http://swatantran.blogspot.com/2008/07/i...Jul 27 10:57
schestowitzYes, I linked to it in about 3 places on the Web.Jul 27 11:01
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04...Jul 27 11:01
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kentmamornin' allJul 28 09:37
schestowitzHey, kentma.Jul 28 09:38
schestowitzWhat's the temperature like down south?Jul 28 09:39
kentmawell, last night, it was so warm I got my telescope out at midnight whilst wearing shorts and t-shirt.  It's also, as ever, about 95%+ humidity, too...Jul 28 09:40
schestowitzIt's terrible over here too... so damp. And guess what? The A/C at the gym is broken. No joy.Jul 28 09:42
kentmaukk... well, careful you don't drink too much if you go to the gym...Jul 28 09:42
kentmathere's a point, I think around 6 or 7 litres, where you will die...Jul 28 09:44
kentmaanyway, enough of that.  I've got my portable air-con running now to cool this room down a bit, and am considering making a hole in the wall in order to fit it permanently.Jul 28 09:44
schestowitzRemember this? http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/woman-di...Jul 28 09:45
kentmaI hadn't seen that, no.  there're usually a couple of people a year who die from water, but that's one of the silliest.  I presume News10 no longer runs this particular competition!Jul 28 09:47
kentmaby silliest, I don't mean to be flippant, I mean that it was just a stupid idea for a competition.Jul 28 09:47
schestowitzThey got sacked, but that's all, I think.Jul 28 09:47
kentmaMisadventure, the coroner would no doubt say.Jul 28 09:48
schestowitzSee this eye-opening new vid from Lessig: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/...Jul 28 09:48
kentmabtw, have you read this week's New Scientist at all?Jul 28 09:50
schestowitzI never read it, no. If it's in paper form, fuhgetaboutit. :-)Jul 28 09:51
kentmaokay, well you need to look out for a Sociologist by the name of David Miller, based at Strathclyde University, and co-author of "A century of spin:  How public relations became the cutting edge of corporate power" - pluto press, 2007.Jul 28 09:55
kentmahttp://gs.strath.ac.uk/con...Jul 28 09:56
kentmahttp://www.spinwatch.org/Jul 28 09:57
schestowitzI love the intro: "David Miller is widely known for his writings on propaganda, spin and lobbying as well as for his expertise on 'terrorism', conflict in Ireland and Iraq, global power-politics and the Scottish political scene.  He is often called upon by the broadcast media as a commentator on media issues and regularly writes for popular media outlets."Jul 28 09:57
schestowitzSpotted these minutes ago:Jul 28 09:57
schestowitzhttp://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm... http://online.barrons.com/article...Jul 28 09:57
schestowitzThey just try to buy more and more sources of revenue (while savings get depleted) to fake growth. Microsoft uses 'Fan Press' to give the impression that it has might, so so should its products.Jul 28 09:58
schestowitzI was told this by E-mail by a film producer some days ago. Microsoft is become more of a naked emperor these days, so it's  a tad nervous.Jul 28 09:58
kentmaTheir finances are clearly disastrous, and they have no assets, so it's hard to see where they can go.  Their only survival route is to buy a real going concern, but they'll never get their margins back to where they were, though.Jul 28 10:03
kentmaoh yeah - off to a prom tonight, too :-)Jul 28 10:03
kentmahehe - just seen your "war on shampoo" remark in my Digest - excellent!Jul 28 10:05
kentmaI've had toothpaste confiscated at Gatwick.Jul 28 10:05
schestowitzFurther to the above: "His current research interests include propaganda and the 'war on terror', corporate communications, corporate power, lobbying, the strategic use of science, corporate influences on academic work, spin and the decline of democratic governance." Austria's police has claimed to be spying on people usign Skype (Spyke)? Is there any 'terror' in Austria that I haven't read about?Jul 28 10:06
kentmaHis New Scientist article speaks eloquently on tobacco funded science, and also on global-warming funded science.Jul 28 10:07
schestowitzSpeaking of water poisoning andimaginary wars: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12...Jul 28 10:07
kentmaah, daft bugger.Jul 28 10:08
kentmanow, what he should've done, is to gather a few fellow passengers, a bottle of tonic, and have a pleasant drink before boarding :-)Jul 28 10:09
schestowitzThis one gets worse: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/m...Jul 28 10:09
schestowitzIt was the same with other presidents. They just pack up and live one day. The Sweater Man gave a year's notice (more actually).Jul 28 10:10
kentmaodd that he's gone to Juniper.  LIke Cisco and Microsoft, they're playing in a world of shrinking margins and growing competition, but, in common with Cisco and contrary to Microsoft, Juniper do have some of their own hardware to sell.Jul 28 10:12
kentmathe note on Cameron's bike was funny, although I cannot condone theft, of course.Jul 28 10:13
schestowitzThat's what I thought. Apple too.Jul 28 10:14
schestowitzMicrosoft thought about selling PCs and being as fearful as it is about the future it serously looked into producing chips and electricity! (posted to COLA before). There are other things like banking... don't ask!Jul 28 10:14
kentmawhy do you suppose the Yellow Dog folk are continuing to supply PowerPCs?Jul 28 10:16
schestowitzHPC, I think.Jul 28 10:16
schestowitzThey do Blades and they sell hardware and services. I think YDL (Terrasoft) does pretty well.Jul 28 10:16
kentmaI'd be interested to know just what kind of sales they get.Jul 28 10:17
schestowitzI should mention that IBM's blades typically run Fedora, sometimes on  PPC. YDL is a Fedora 7 deriv ATM IIRC.Jul 28 10:17
kentmaMy blade-centres use x86 and CGLinux... SuSE...Jul 28 10:18
schestowitz:-(Jul 28 10:18
schestowitzSUSE is used a lot by IBM in mainframes. I suppose you've heard about IBM's possible involvement in the Microsoft deal?Jul 28 10:18
kentmaThe reason it was chosen was because Red Hat refused to offer Carrier Grade certification, and SuSE had it.Jul 28 10:19
kentmaI've seen something on IBM - what do you have?Jul 28 10:19
schestowitzHere's the second part: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/22/...Jul 28 10:20
schestowitzI still look forward to posting something about the way Novell markets itself. ;-)Jul 28 10:20
kentmaUm, it could be a long game here - IBM have been around for a very long time, and know how to play the game.  On Novell, well, when there's some independent confirmation...Jul 28 10:21
schestowitzI have it drafted. The good news is that awareness of Novell's bad impact is prevalent. You can see this in the comments in several major sites. Novell is the ""bad boy"... like Oracle or Intel... or better yet: Wal-Mart.Jul 28 10:23
kentmagood article, btw.Jul 28 10:25
schestowitzTa, I wrote it quickly. I don't think I'll publish anything in D4at4mation for quite some time. Too many Microsoft ads. :-(Jul 28 10:26
kentmaunavoidable, I think.  Microsoft have very deep pockets...Jul 28 10:28
schestowitzLook just how close Microsoft and Hollywood are: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9...Jul 28 10:28
kentmaAh, presumably MS will claim that using Vista will solve all of these "problems".Jul 28 10:28
schestowitzHow's that Microsoft's business anyway? They had secret meetings with the RIAA/MPAA for DRM cages and also tried to help them collect MP3 player 'tax'. Why? It's like an irgy of back-rubbing.Jul 28 10:28
schestowitzYes, that's partly *it*Jul 28 10:29
schestowitzIt's also part of that campaign they talk about in their SEC filing. They want to create a culture obsessed with "IP"... just like "War on terrorism".Jul 28 10:29
kentmathe talkbacks are quite interesting - it would appear that most people are no longer fooled by any of the arguments.Jul 28 10:30
kentmaDaemonising a technology because it could be ill-used is not very sensible.Jul 28 10:30
schestowitzWell, I spoke about it to some friends yesterday. It reminded me of [H]omer's post where he calls them "gangsters".Jul 28 10:32
schestowitzThe whole thing goes back to propaganda.Jul 28 10:32
schestowitzAnother thing that I now notice in http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9442 is that reporters are forbidden from saying (owing to journa-peer pressure) that Microsoft isn't gloriously rich. It's part of that propaganda thing you brought up earlier.Jul 28 10:33
schestowitzI wonder if Enron and worldcom too had some sort of a pressuring mechanism to hide the weaknesses.Jul 28 10:34
kentmaIt works, doesn't it?Jul 28 10:34
kentmaI'm sure that they did, especially internally.Jul 28 10:34
schestowitzWell, it does. Apart from the likes of RMS (who get ridiculed for it), I'm now aware of many (maybe Lessig) who dare to just say that the government is corrupt, and so it out loud to the public. They just say truth.Jul 28 10:34
kentmaIf you can, you should try to read David Miller's article in New Sci.  Here's another example:  The International Life Science Institute, ILSI, is in fact a food-industry funded lobby group, dominated by Coca Cola, and managed to divert research into examining dietary sugars by funding the scientists in the study covertly.  It's now banned from WHO work!Jul 28 10:37
schestowitzMargin erosion spotted: http://technology.inquirer.net/infotec...Jul 28 10:37
schestowitzAh, well.. Coca Cola is known to be corrupt too. See RMS' take on it...Jul 28 10:38
schestowitzGlobal warning... now it's also the carriers that fight research on cancer and cellphones. What about microwaves?Jul 28 10:38
kentmaI love the bit in the article where they claim they're lowering prices to combat illegal copying, no mention of OpenOffice at all!Jul 28 10:40
schestowitzTo be fair, the Linux Foundation and those other 'industrial backers' firght fire with fire by using the same dirty tactics. They even employed shills like Al Gillen and IDC to generate some propaganda. The LF can do to Free software what Microsoft did to computing... and it sidlines the FSF.Jul 28 10:40
schestowitzThey try to counter OpenOffice.org and Web-based office suites. They also turn a blind eye to infringements in this country.Jul 28 10:40
schestowitz"Thank you, FSF, but we'll take your code from here... oh, and replace Freedom with something called 'enterprise open source' and the likes of Lotus Symphony"Jul 28 10:42
kentmaThis was always the Eric Raymond position - that you need to engage business in the process otherwise you'll lose the long-term game.  Personally, I think that the GPL will inevitably win, however, what ESR and LF and co might be right about is that it's possible that the intervening period could be significantly shortened by engaging with businesses en-route.Jul 28 10:44
schestowitzThe criticism here was one of propaganda and purely proprietary software under the guise of the word "Open".Jul 28 10:45
kentmaI understood your point.  My speculation is around whether the interregnum period can be shortened by appropriate business engagement.Jul 28 10:46
kentmaLook at it this way, businesses *will* spend money, no matter what, wrt linux and foss.  The question is whether it's possible to make that spend less or more damaging to foss in the long-run, even if the short-term positioning doesn't seem ideal.Jul 28 10:47
kentmaI'm not sure I /agree/ with it, rather, I'm trying to understand it.Jul 28 10:47
schestowitzThat was the ESR argument.Jul 28 10:47
kentmaPrecisely!Jul 28 10:47
schestowitzThat said, there's another compromise at play.Jul 28 10:47
schestowitzYou're also spoiling people and diluting or masking the original message.Jul 28 10:48
schestowitzSee thos:Jul 28 10:48
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/ne...Jul 28 10:48
kentmaThe question would be about who is doing the compromising.Jul 28 10:49
kentmaBusinesses will do what they want anyway... is it possible to turn them in a helpful direction?Jul 28 10:50
schestowitzhttp://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/mgmt/1...Jul 28 10:50
kentmaI think that the BSD licence will help to keep many on board.Jul 28 10:50
schestowitzAnother one... you see? Margin loss and critical massshifting the other way... :-)Jul 28 10:50
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kentmaOh, in the long-run, there's no doubt that Microsoft had lost the moment the GPL was first published.Jul 28 10:51
kentmaThe combinatino of the GPL and the internet is too powerful for anyone to stop.Jul 28 10:51
schestowitzWell, the GPL begs to differs. Some businesses tried to do, as you put it, "do what they want anyway." RMS recognised selfishness and acted to stop it with the licence, then protect it from thing like Tivoization.Jul 28 10:51
schestowitz*thingsJul 28 10:52
kentmaTrue, although I'd argue that this was patching an error in GPL, not fundamentally changing it.Jul 28 10:52
kentmaGPLv3 is a bug-fixed GPLv2Jul 28 10:52
schestowitzNo, the philosophy is still the same.Jul 28 10:52
kentmaThen you agree with me?Jul 28 10:52
schestowitzI had arguments about it in the WordPress mailing lists.Jul 28 10:52
schestowitzI lobbied for GPLv3 and it turned out that those who fought me were fundamentally against the GPL, just as RMS warned.Jul 28 10:53
schestowitzThey use the incremental change as an opportunity to burn the effigy.Jul 28 10:53
kentmabtw - it's ironic that the Torygraph is moving to OpenOffice.Jul 28 10:53
schestowitz*LOL* never heard this one before.Jul 28 10:53
kentmaon GPLv3, for me, it was a bug-fix for GPLv2.  Those who were angry were those who were either a) opposed to GPL in the first place or b) exploiting the bug in GPLv2 for business gain;  in each case, they had never really adopted the philosophy.Jul 28 10:54
schestowitzWell, they swap masters. Given the Whitehall thing, you'd think they ought to go for OOoJul 28 10:54
schestowitzWhen Mcirosoft is IBMed (in a bad sense), then the battle will shit to cloud/AGPL/ASP. It's an endless struggle because human nature is to gain control; it's antithetical wrt GPL.Jul 28 10:55
schestowitz*shiftJul 28 10:56
kentmaThe advantage of google office versus openoffice is that storage & backup is handled by a 3rd party.Jul 28 10:56
kentmaI agree - the AGPL is another bug-fix :-)Jul 28 10:56
kentmaanyway, /me is off to get a coffee - back soon.Jul 28 10:56
schestowitzYes, I like putting stuff online (on my server or my host's) because it's another safety net for points of failure.Jul 28 10:57
schestowitzSay goodnight to Zune. http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/zune-g... http://www.pmptoday.com/2008/0...Jul 28 11:00
PetoKraus who's he?Jul 28 11:02
schestowitzSome guy who had a tattoo of "Zune" Attention whore.Jul 28 11:03
schestowitzhttp://tech.blorge.com/Structure%2... The beginning of the end for the Microsoft ZuneJul 28 11:03
schestowitzhttp://www.hcs.harvard.edu/%7Efreeculture/blog/... Zuneral this Saturday!Jul 28 11:04
schestowitzhttp://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsana... GameStop to Stop Zune SalesJul 28 11:04
schestowitzhttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/... Zune Sales Still In the ToiletJul 28 11:04
schestowitzhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05... Microsoft May Build a Copyright Cop Into Every ZuneJul 28 11:04
schestowitzA bit older: http://news.zdnet.com/2100... Microsoft says Zune executive will leave companyJul 28 11:04
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kentmahttp://openpandora.org/Jul 28 13:08
kentmanext gen ultra-mini computingJul 28 13:08
*schestowitz looksJul 28 13:08
schestowitz[sarcam] I can't see a Start menuJul 28 13:09
kentmahehe...  it looks fantastic.  600M Arm, DSP, OpenGL, 800x480 touchscreen, bluetooth, wifi, SDHC slots, qwerty kb, 10 hrs battery... it's about perfect.Jul 28 13:09
kentmaIt's a direct competitor for the Nokia N800/N810 series, but with a gaming focus.Jul 28 13:10
schestowitzDoes the N700/8x use ARM? I think so..Jul 28 13:10
kentmayes, but display is not openGL compliant, so gaming is limited.Jul 28 13:11
schestowitzEven Intel has woken up to find that portability makes their overpowered chips unneeded to many.Jul 28 13:11
kentmaArm is winning the mobility battle, just like linux is.Jul 28 13:11
schestowitz10 billion chips sold so far. Jul 28 13:12
kentmahttp://openpandora.org/bigone.jpg  picture of the prototype.Jul 28 13:12
schestowitzWe live in a strange world where the word "computer" means only something very specific.... not a calculator, a phone (no matter how smart)...Jul 28 13:12
schestowitzWebbook is coming too.Jul 28 13:13
schestowitzI saw this one before. It seems like a rival to that gadget you bought for your no2?Jul 28 13:13
kentmait's the replacement - next-gen device replacing the GP2xJul 28 13:13
schestowitz???Jul 28 13:14
schestowitzDifferent company though, right? The GP2X is made in South Korea, IIRC.Jul 28 13:15
kentmayes, GP2x was from game park holdings:  http://craig.gp2x.de/review/...Jul 28 13:17
schestowitzMicrosoft has been signing some Asian embedded Linux companies... for patents.Jul 28 13:17
schestowitzIt's probably an overlooked issue because everyone is watching Novell.Jul 28 13:18
kentmaI'm sure MS will continue this game for as long as software patents are supported anywhere.  The real goal must be to end that particular abomination.Jul 28 13:20
kentmaOn Pandora, one of the neatest things is that the design has been put together through requests from users, so the features are absolutely what people want...Jul 28 13:20
kentmasort of open-hardware development.Jul 28 13:21
schestowitzIn a world of imaginary property, nothing is free (not even Free software). Hence Microsoft's big push for reform in the wrong direction...Jul 28 13:21
kentmayou're right, though, game park do not make this, it's more of a community effort, as far as I can tell.Jul 28 13:21
schestowitzI hope companies like Pandora reside in countries far away from Microsoft's lobbysists (criminals)Jul 28 13:22
kentma Why doesn't the LCD touchscreen flip / rotate for a "tablet" mode? This is actually a patented idea. Pandora could not have a hinge which either flipped all the way back or rotated without substantially increasing the cost (licensing fees) or risking a patent infringement lawsuit.   Why don't you use a slide out keyboard like the Nokia N810? This is also patented.  A lot of the good ideas are.Jul 28 13:23
schestowitzIt's ridiculous. Isn't there prior art?Jul 28 13:24
kentmaAlmost certainly... my Psion 5mx's keyboard partially slid-out, as an example.Jul 28 13:25
kentmaThe trouble is that these guys just won't have the resources to fight those battles.Jul 28 13:25
schestowitzIt just comes to show that the agenda of software patents protesters ought to be part of a broader push. "Sliding keyboard" != typewriters. The complexity of patents these days is flabbergusting. Jul 28 13:25
kentmaor flubbergastingJul 28 13:26
kentma:-)Jul 28 13:26
schestowitzOLPC called for old keyboards recently... ones from 1993, IIRC. They need to fight that patent troll from Nigeria.Jul 28 13:26
schestowitzOh, weird. I thought I'd fixed that typo. Something in my UI and lack of proofreading.Jul 28 13:27
schestowitzMicrosoft patented 'tree view' in 95/97.Jul 28 13:27
kentmaWas that the one about having a particular keytop?Jul 28 13:27
schestowitzI can't recall.Jul 28 13:28
kentmatree view?  But that dates back to, well, almost forever, really!Jul 28 13:28
schestowitzBut Groklaw linked to the request. I no longer care about OLPC.Jul 28 13:28
schestowitzMicrosoft shot it and now it's using the project, which sold out to the very same devil that killed it.Jul 28 13:28
kentmaOLPC could still be a force for good things, but nobody seems very interested in it now.Jul 28 13:28
schestowitzre: tree view -- yes, it's madness. I used it as a kid.Jul 28 13:28
kentmathe OLPC site  talks about free and open-source software.Jul 28 13:29
schestowitzHa.Jul 28 13:31
schestowitzMust be out of date. Microsoft is reportedly putting final touches... Windows XPJul 28 13:32
schestowitzRace to the past. Windows 2001 (minus lots of blubber). They'll toss lots of money into this (even tolerate a loss) just to ensure Linux doesn't get any traction.Jul 28 13:32
kentmabut then, in a bloggy sort of posting, there is a statement that OLPCs commitment to open source and free software isn't religious (why should it be?), but pragmatic.  It's a wonderful, completely meaningless statement, which reads like it's straight from the MS press office.Jul 28 13:33
kentmaThe impression being given that anyone into free software is also a regular church-goer, and non-foss choices are "pragmatic".Jul 28 13:33
schestowitzWell, they changes the mission.Jul 28 13:35
kentmathey go on to say that people will be "reassured" by the availability of Windows - well, why?Jul 28 13:35
schestowitzThere was a good post about this at the time. The project is no longer the same and it also coughed out some people whose values made it what it is.Jul 28 13:35
kentmathat said, there doesn't seem to be any mention of Microsoft elsewhere, even in recent meeting notes, apart from in a critical way, like vista is slow, awful and supports few languages.Jul 28 13:38
schestowitzThere's that Unlimited Potential thing from Microsoft.Jul 28 13:40
schestowitzIt's the anti-Linux adoption Unit, which operated in the guise of 'charity'. It gives freebie wherever Linux' head crops up.Jul 28 13:41
schestowitzMicrosoft has always been good at spinning nasty, predatory things as good things. Charity is just one example. There's also DRM, spyware, EULA modifications, etc.Jul 28 13:42
kentmauntil Microsoft find a way of legitimately making money, that is.  Such spoilers are not sustainable in the long-term, because of the GPL.Jul 28 13:42
schestowitzTrue.Jul 28 13:42
schestowitzThat's why they lose a lot in terms of value.Jul 28 13:42
kentmaMicrosoft cannot stop the GPL, all that they can do is attempt to delay adoption, but any means that they can think of.Jul 28 13:42
schestowitzI didn't read things carefully enough, but Rex claimed last night that their margins had fallen from 85% to just 45%Jul 28 13:43
kentmaI think that they're lost any chance of grabbing the children of the developing world, because the developed world is not adopting Vista, so the developing world will ask "why should we?"  instead, they'll look at what the real new technologies are going to be, and will adopt them.Jul 28 13:43
kentmaInteresting on Rex's post - did he post his workings?Jul 28 13:43
schestowitzOf the numbers?Jul 28 13:44
schestowitzAs for Vista and poor nations, it's lock-in (technical and habitual) that Microsoft is after. You can't put a price on a drag-like dependency.Jul 28 13:45
kentmaI just don't think that the developing nations have anything like the wealth Microsoft needs for its books, even if you squeeze them until they squeak, they're still incredibly poor compared with the developed world.Jul 28 13:52
kentmaEconomic wealth Nos for UK:Jul 28 13:55
kentmatop 1% have 23% of wealthJul 28 13:55
kentma5% have 43% of wealthJul 28 13:55
kentma10% have 56% of w.Jul 28 13:56
kentma25% have 74% of wealthJul 28 13:56
kentma50% have 94% of wealth.Jul 28 13:56
kentmaThis is 2002 figure, and if anything, it's crept further up, not down.Jul 28 13:56
kentmaThis means that the lower 50% of the population manage with just 6% of the wealth of the nation between them.Jul 28 13:57
schestowitzWhat's it like in the US? Probably worse, I reckon.Jul 28 13:57
kentmaNote, though, that this would include unsalaried housewifes or husbands, their children and any other dependents.Jul 28 13:57
schestowitzI hopefully don't end up among those 50% that share 6%. :-) I compromise a lot to promote FOSS.Jul 28 13:58
schestowitzHmmm... this is weird... http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9595-0....Jul 28 14:02
schestowitzClick on the top to view the article. It's not in CNET either.Jul 28 14:02
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kentmathey're hiding this stuff like made.Jul 28 14:55
kentmamad.Jul 28 14:56
schestowitzI don't know. Other sites have similar articles, but ZDNet is owned by Microsoft.Jul 28 15:08
schestowitz(not directly)Jul 28 15:08
schestowitzAnother exaple: http://www.linux.com/articles/28048 (links to ZDNet 404 ... "Microsoft-China GSP Deal: Perjury OR Treachery?" )Jul 28 15:09
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