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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 4th, 2008

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schestowitzNice one.Sep 04 00:09
*schestowitz slow to reply because of multitaskingSep 04 00:10
tessier__cj: Microsoft and Novell are trying to kill FOSS and maintain their monopoly. That's wrong.Sep 04 00:13
tessier__They were already convicted of having such a monopoly by Judge Jackson.Sep 04 00:13
schestowitzJudge Jackson called them "Criminals".Sep 04 00:14
tessier__All of the leaked documents about how they want to kill FOSS are pretty damning tooSep 04 00:15
tessier__I take it personally because if they kill FOSS they kill my career. Linux paid for my house.Sep 04 00:15
schestowitz "I also expect a serious effort, backed by several billion dollars in bribe money (oops, excuse me, campaign contributions), to get open-source software outlawed on some kind of theory that it aids terrorists."Sep 04 00:16
schestowitz" We can only defeat that by making sure that national governments become so attached to open-source code that their military men and bureaucrats will short-stop the bribed legislators, rather than let their vital infrastructure be outlawed."Sep 04 00:16
cjtessier__: I do not believe that MS or Novell are trying to kill F/OSSSep 04 00:17
tessier__cj: MS says it is. It's a cancer, remember?Sep 04 00:18
cjnor could they were they to want toSep 04 00:18
tessier__cj: Probably not. But they have certainly killed lots of other companies.Sep 04 00:18
cjtessier__: perhaps someone employed by MS said that, I'll give you that.  The folks I've worked with don't seem to feel that way.Sep 04 00:18
tessier__cj: The folks you work with don't run MS.Sep 04 00:18
tessier__They spent a lot of money on a "Linux is a cancer" campaign which came from the top.Sep 04 00:19
cjtessier__: if you mean they intend to bring redhat or canonical to bankruptcy, perhaps I'd buy that.  but linux is not a company.Sep 04 00:19
tessier__cj: They didn't say RedHat or Canonical. They said Linux was a cancer.Sep 04 00:19
schestowitz*LOL* "they don't say it to me" ... "Microsoft really loves open source".."they are nice people".......*LOL* Classic.Sep 04 00:20
cjtessier__: so you're confused?Sep 04 00:20
tessier__I'm not confused at all.Sep 04 00:20
schestowitztessier: that's not correct. The people at the 'bottom' say that too.Sep 04 00:20
cj"they have certainly killed lots of other companies" sounds non-sequiter for someone who is not confused...Sep 04 00:20
schestowitzThey just can't say it in public. Let me find something.Sep 04 00:20
schestowitz 04 00:22
cjschestowitz: if you continue to lower yourself to ad homonym, you'll hurt your credibility further.Sep 04 00:22
schestowitz“Open source is stealing. What open source does is copying proprietary software and giving it away for free. Open source is not about innovation or innovating, it’s about copying. It infringes on everybody’s patents. Not just Microsoft’s. But we’re just the most vocal about it. We just can not see this happening and not do anything to protect our business […] What open source and communism have in common, is that there Sep 04 00:22
schestowitzare both failed systems”.Sep 04 00:22
schestowitzcj: ad hominem? Where?Sep 04 00:23
cj*LOL*?  "they are nice people"?Sep 04 00:24
cjschestowitz: laughing and misquotingSep 04 00:24
cjI'm sorry to hear that some folks feel that way.  However, those that I've spoken with don't hold that opinion.Sep 04 00:28
cjand yes, tessier__, some of my friends do run parts of microsoft.Sep 04 00:29
cjthis conversation strikes me as xenophobic...Sep 04 00:29
schestowitzGood for them. They take order from people who break the law.Sep 04 00:29
schestowitz*ordersSep 04 00:30
schestowitzcj: sadly for them, they fail to understand who they serve and what the impact on society is. It's call Kool-Aid.Sep 04 00:30
cjschestowitz: you seem unfit to make that judgment...  you do not know them or their intent...Sep 04 00:31
cjschestowitz: and I'm still waiting for your recommendations on how to adjust the status quo so that it meets the needs of society in a better way.Sep 04 00:32
schestowitzI saw what they write. Patronisation is dangerous. A company whose employees express desire to 'tilt "X" into the death spiral' and use ISVs as "pawns" and "one night stands".Sep 04 00:32
cjschestowitz: and no, "tear it down and start all over" doesn't count, in my book.Sep 04 00:32
schestowitzOn whose behalf are you asking?Sep 04 00:32
cjfree software developersSep 04 00:33
cjwell, on my own as a free software developerSep 04 00:33
cjit would be presunmptive of me to ask on the behalf of others, without having their consent :)Sep 04 00:40
schestowitzWho job do you do for Microsoft?Sep 04 00:47
cjschestowitz: did you send folks to spam #mono?Sep 04 00:48
cjwho job?Sep 04 00:49
schestowitz???Sep 04 00:49
cjI do not understand "Who job do you do"Sep 04 00:50
schestowitzSpam Mono? Send? What am I? Some don who 'sends' peple...?Sep 04 00:50
cjschestowitz: *shrug*  someone there suggested the spammers were your "lackeys"Sep 04 00:51
cjI don't know why he would have said that, but I thought I would ask you rather than accuse you.  perhaps I can defend your reputation?Sep 04 00:51
cjif you were asking what I do at MS, I said above.  allow me to scroll back...Sep 04 00:52
cjtesting a feature in the next release of forefront; implementation of the GAPA stuff documented here: 04 00:53
schestowitzWhy doesn't the Almighty Microsoft make security a feature of the O/S? If it came make a browser a feature you cannot even remove from the O/S, why not security?Sep 04 00:55
cjschestowitz: they did.  it's in vista.  GAPA is an additional feature.Sep 04 00:56
cjwhen you buy an individual system, you don't really need a enterprise-wide managed firewall.Sep 04 00:56
cjbut it does come with a personal firewall.Sep 04 00:56
cjs/ a / an /Sep 04 00:57
schestowitzit's a nice business model that Microsoft has got going. They should make the O/S more crashy (they already did that with LH/Vista) and then sell better stability as a product.Sep 04 00:57
schestowitzVista is not secure. It's a Big Lie.Sep 04 00:57
schestowitzIt was proven by scientists.Sep 04 00:58
cj*shrug*  I'm not claiming that vista is a good OS.  I'm just answering your question.Sep 04 00:58
cjso, do you have any recommendations for improving the social responsibility of Novell and MS?  What would you consider a worthwhile move on the part of either of the companies?Sep 04 01:00
cjor are you just using the boycottnovell campaign as a platform to enlarge your ego?Sep 04 01:01
schestowitzThe SEC is advised to pay a long visit to both companies and inform the investors it was made to protect about the truth; that'll be a good start.Sep 04 01:02
cjwhat would be a positive end to this campaign?  The Montgomery Bus Boycot was not held to destroy the bus system, it was held to improve the situation and gather attention to a problem which had a solution.Sep 04 01:03
cjto me, it seems like you are complaining for the sake of complaining with a side effect of you getting attention...Sep 04 01:04
cjschestowitz: I mean what could the companies do *themselves*?  Is your recommendation really that the companies continue as they are until the authorities *make* them do something else?Sep 04 01:05
cjyou have yet to confirm or deny that spammers were sent to #mono at your behest...Sep 04 01:07
tessierFirst we need to get rid of software patents.Sep 04 01:08
tessierThen MS can't claim (but never prove) that Linux violates hundreds of their patenstSep 04 01:08
tessierpatentsSep 04 01:08
tessierTo say Linux violates hundreds of patents but never say which ones so they can be fixed is a pretty sleezy move.Sep 04 01:08
cjperhaps reform would be a more feasible bet.  I'm not a fan of software patents either, but they're already part of society.Sep 04 01:09
cjclassifying software as a form of mathematics would bring the tower crumbling down... but that may be more catostrophe than can be handled...Sep 04 01:09
schestowitzI never 'sent' anyone anywhere and I didn't know a Mono channel exists. I knew about go-ooSep 04 01:10, #monoSep 04 01:10
schestowitzNo, thank you, sir.Sep 04 01:14
cjschestowitz: it seems the spammers are from the same domain as mib_e1zoms / mib_jm8dflSep 04 01:15
schestowitzLook, I won't be spending time with some accusations that are baseless and stupid and false. Mib is mibbit.Sep 04 01:16
cjI'm not accusing.  I'm just noting that it seems to me that the regulars of this channel react to a rational conversation with network abuse.Sep 04 01:17
cjmib_e1zoms: was that you?Sep 04 01:18
cjmib_jm8dfl: ^^Sep 04 01:18
schestowitzI don't use mibbitSep 04 01:18
cjschestowitz: ... I didn't claim that you did?Sep 04 01:19
schestowitzI find it amusing if not flattering that any form of inconvenience  to Mono is now blamed on me, by default.Sep 04 01:19
cj:)Sep 04 01:20
cjschestowitz: have you read this?Sep 04 01:21
cj 04 01:21
cj Q: Certainly you're aware that some observers are skeptical about the concept of Microsoft having an open source strategy. How do you respond to this?Sep 04 01:26
cjOur open source strategy, now and in the future, is to continue a journey in which we participate with others in learning how open source products and technologies, Microsoft products and technologiesand sometimes open source products and technologies from Microsoftcan coexist, combine, and comingle in ways that offer value to customers, developers and IT administrators, partners businesses, and, as a commercial company, our shareholders.Sep 04 01:26
cjBut our strategy remains unchanged. Microsoft competes with Linux and Unix servers with Windows servers; we're going to find ways to interoperate between Linux and Windows because lots of our customers run both; and we want to grow the open-source ecosystem as it relates to Microsoft software.Sep 04 01:26
cjshould the Apache Software Foundation be boycotted as well?  If not, what is the distinction?Sep 04 01:35
*schestowitz catching upSep 04 01:37
schestowitzct: you come here as a person who works for Microsoft (indirectly) and you sing about the wonders of Microsoft. Do you even know what Ramji is doing? Search BN as this was covered before. The same with Apache. It's all there.Sep 04 01:38
cjsorry, I missed the part where I was singing about the wonders...Sep 04 01:39
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tessierSoftware patents are completely unworkable. Reform is not an option.Sep 04 03:57
tessierSoftware is math and you can't patent math.Sep 04 03:57
tessierIt's not a matter of classification, it's a matter of fact.Sep 04 03:58
tessierYou can't count to infinity without reproducing the entire source code of Windows Vista. Count yourself lucky nobody is pushing the issue of copyright in general.Sep 04 03:58
wasabiYou can have a bunch of monkeys work forever, and eventualy they'll write a book.Sep 04 04:10
wasabiBut that book is still copyrighted.Sep 04 04:10
wasabiI fail to see the conclusion properly following hte premises.Sep 04 04:10
wasabipatent law, and most law, isn't about weird theoritical abstracts.Sep 04 04:11
wasabiit's about real world things, in our country, and others, in this day and time.Sep 04 04:11
tessierBut I'm not talking about monkeys typing randomly. I'm talking about mathSep 04 04:36
tessierAnd math cannot be patented.Sep 04 04:38
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tessierdohSep 04 04:39
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schestowitzMicrosoft says use Mono... 04 08:27
schestowitz"Prior to joining Microsoft about a year ago, Hansleman..."Sep 04 08:27
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zoobab 04 09:16
schestowitzWho is AT&T? Probably some angry teenagers ("teenage riot"). :-)Sep 04 09:17
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ZiggyFishheySep 04 12:11
ZiggyFish (chriss starting to see the light)Sep 04 12:11
schestowitz..or the FUD?Sep 04 13:03
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schestowitzPj got around to it: 04 13:42
schestowitz ( A license to buy and drink alcohol at age 18? ) quoteworthy: "At 18, you're good to go and die in Iraq or Afghanistan. At 21, when you're legally allowed to drink alcohol, you might already be the mother or father of several kids!"Sep 04 14:00
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schestowitzRed Hat just snapped KVM: 04 15:10
anivarschestowitz:  I hope you got my mailSep 04 15:11
anivarIndia is in the steps to create a National policy for openstandards for e-govSep 04 15:12
anivaras a followup of rejecting india's Appeal against OOXMLSep 04 15:12
schestowitzIt's a draft, right? I had a cursory look at it this morning.Sep 04 15:14
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schestowitzFUD ALERT [Fwd: Open Source Software: Your Company's Legal Risks] < > "he decision of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Jacobsen is significant and there is no question that it creates additional risks for companies using open source software. It is also likely that the open source community will be more aggressive..."Sep 04 15:24
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schestowitzMore IP-BS: 04 15:37
schestowitzGeez! So much patent FUD agaist FOSS today. This one too: ("Open source software is a unique risk"). Where's it all coming from and why?Sep 04 15:42
schestowitzMarrying monopolies on knowledge with Free software (also new): 04 15:48
schestowitzMore legal FUD (WTF?): (Is open source software putting businesses at risk?)Sep 04 15:52
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wasabiIt's coming from you people as far as I can tell.Sep 04 16:01
schestowitzThanks, wasabi, your trolling is appreciated.Sep 04 16:02
wasabiHmm. I'm not sure that was trolling.Sep 04 16:02
wasabiI mean, it could be taken as such. :0Sep 04 16:02
wasabiBut I meant it in all honesty.Sep 04 16:02
schestowitzAre you working for Microsoft too?Sep 04 16:02
wasabiHeh. Yes. I am a MS spy.Sep 04 16:02
wasabiI have BillG's face tattooed on my ass.Sep 04 16:03
vida18World Day against software patentsSep 04 16:03
schestowitzvida18: yes, any news about that?Sep 04 16:03
vida18 04 16:03
vida18 04 16:04
vida18 (in French)Sep 04 16:04
schestowitzI'm going to write about it in a couple of hoursSep 04 16:04
vida18Mandriva loses a lot of moneySep 04 16:13
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trmancoyaySep 04 17:57
trmancofinally I learned how to use the usenet :PSep 04 17:58
trmancowith no web access*Sep 04 17:58
schestowitz.Which NGs?Sep 04 17:58
trmancocom.os.linux.*Sep 04 17:59
trmancocomp*Sep 04 17:59
schestowitzI wonder if the Novell ones are still aliveSep 04 17:59
schestowitzI saw Novell throwing some PR there a while ago, but I think they are mosly dead.Sep 04 17:59
trmancoI subscribed to won from novell but it looks deadSep 04 18:39
trmancoone*Sep 04 18:39
trmancoI unsubscribed after a minute or two :|Sep 04 18:39
schestowitzThey can merge it with* and alt.forsaleSep 04 18:41
trmancololSep 04 18:42
trmancothats looks like Chinese to meSep 04 18:42
trmancostill don't know what all the extensions mean :|Sep 04 18:43
trmancowell, comp, alt those a knowSep 04 18:43
trmancobut they're so many :|Sep 04 18:43
trmancostill have to create a certificate that is compatible with thunderbirdSep 04 18:46
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zoobab 04 20:05
zoobab 04 20:05
schestowitzWhat da..... "your use of that photograph without prior authorization from at&t is a violation of copyright and also infringes on several proprietary trademarks."Sep 04 20:07
schestowitz*LMAO*Sep 04 20:07
schestowitzF* it. I'm making a copy of this photo to spread it further.Sep 04 20:07
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seller_liarschestowitz: hey roy thanks for publishing some info about globoSep 04 20:11
seller_liarschestowitz: did you know which globo are in collapse since that time?Sep 04 20:12
seller_liarschestowitz: but globo have a lot of power ,and then the governement did a  5 bi contract for paying during 30 or 40 yearsSep 04 20:13
seller_liarschestowitz: globo Will NEVER pay the governementSep 04 20:13
schestowitzSounds like a corrupt infusion. It happens in the UK too... and got leaked to Wikileaks.Sep 04 20:14
seller_liartrmanco: hey trmanco voce esta ai?Sep 04 20:15
trmancosimSep 04 20:15
seller_liartrmanco: voce conhece a globo? eu tenho um artigo sobre a relação globo ms em portugues e talvez se puder ,seria legal traduzi-loSep 04 20:15
trmancoglobo?Sep 04 20:16
seller_liartrmanco: sim ,roberto marinhoSep 04 20:16
trmanconao estou a ver o que é :|Sep 04 20:17
seller_liartrmanco: vou passar o link do artigo tudo bem?Sep 04 20:17
trmancosimSep 04 20:17
seller_liartrmanco: wait a momentSep 04 20:17
seller_liartrmanco: 04 20:18
trmanco 04 20:19
trmancoseller_liar, vou ver :PSep 04 20:19
seller_liartrmanco: thank youSep 04 20:19
trmanco"Mas foi na Net que os Marinho tiveram de começar a ceder posição. Eles tinham 70% do controle, que diminuiu muito a partir do Protocolo de Recapitalização no início do ano, quando o BNDES, o Bradesco e a RBS ampliaram suas ações para quase 40%. O sócio estrangeiro - a Microsoft - recusou aportar capital e perdeu espaço."Sep 04 20:22
seller_liartrmanco: sim ,é uma pequena citação,mas deve ter mais a contarSep 04 20:23
trmancopoisSep 04 20:23
seller_liartrmanco: mas não consegui encontrar mais nada,Sep 04 20:24
seller_liarschestowitz: hey roy ,"beyond citizen kane" is a movie made by a English guy  about globoSep 04 20:25
schestowitz 04 20:28
trmanco 04 20:28
schestowitzGlobo-lisationSep 04 20:28
seller_liarschestowitz: but you can find the original "beyond citizen kane"  in author voice (english)Sep 04 20:29
schestowitztrmanco: exaggeration. Look at the author (pal of Ramji).Sep 04 20:29
trmancooh didn't knowSep 04 20:30
trmanconice pointer there, I don't really see any problems with there wiki but whateverSep 04 20:30
trmanco 04 20:32
trmanco 04 20:35
seller_liarschestowitz: There are any movie about m$ "bad habits"Sep 04 20:37
seller_liarschestowitz: except piratesSep 04 20:37
schestowitzseller_liar: what do you mean? Care to elaborate?Sep 04 20:40
seller_liarschestowitz: Example, beyond citizen kane about globo, "xxxx" about m$Sep 04 20:41
schestowitzHeh. 04 20:41
schestowitzI might need to do that too one day.Sep 04 20:42
schestowitzseller_liar: yes, many.Sep 04 20:42
seller_liarschestowitz: please tell me one ,except pirate of sillicon valleySep 04 20:42
schestowitzHere is one example (2 videos): 04 20:42
seller_liarschestowitz: but it's not a complete movieSep 04 20:43
seller_liarschestowitz: a complete movie can be good if someone makes oneSep 04 20:43
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schestowitzThere's one about antitrust, but only a portion is about Microsoft.Sep 04 20:50
schestowitz 04 20:50
seller_liarschestowitz: what movieSep 04 20:51
seller_liarschestowitz: okSep 04 20:51
seller_liarseller_liar: thanksSep 04 20:51
schestowitzThe background material is relevant nonetheless, as context being the danger of monopolies that collude (like MS/Novell).Sep 04 20:52
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seller_liarschestowitz: chanserv died?Sep 04 20:54
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schestowitzI kicked him in the nuts.Sep 04 20:56
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schestowitzboycott novellSep 04 21:02
schestowitzRevolt? 04 21:03
schestowitzSo the guy (CJ) just came here to cause trouble. 04 21:03
schestowitzComing from someone who works for Microsoft, this isn't something to be concerned about.Sep 04 21:04
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IRC logs for Sunday, February 25, 2024IRC logs for Sunday, February 25, 2024
Gemini Links 25/02/2024: Chronic Pain and a Hall of the Broken Things
Links for the day
Links 25/02/2024: New Rants About 'Hey Hi' Hype and JavaScript Bloat
Links for the day
Going Static Helped the Planet, Too
As we've been saying since last year
Chris Rutter, Winchester College, Clare College choir, Arm Ltd, underage workers & Debian accidental deaths
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gemini Links 25/02/2024: Blocking Crawlers and Moving to gemserv
Links for the day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, February 24, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, February 24, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day