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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 19th, 2008 - Part 1

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MinceRgnNov 19 00:18
schestowitzBack atchaNov 19 00:18
schestowitzEek. Mistakenly promoting Mono/Novell stuff... http://ryanorser.com/?p=655Nov 19 00:29
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yuhongBTW, what about DotGNU as an alternative to Mono?Nov 19 00:32
yuhongWould it be better?Nov 19 00:32
schestowitzEric Lai was offended... "And if Boycott Novell is so prescient, then why did it call ClickStream a  "small and obscure company which is located in Asia." I know a lot of Asians attend UC Berkeley," http://blogs.computerworld.com/ano...Nov 19 00:33
schestowitzHey, yuhong.Nov 19 00:33
yuhongBecause there aren't much on DotGNU on Boycott Novell.Nov 19 00:34
yuhongI will say it again.Nov 19 00:35
yuhong>BTW, what about DotGNU as an alternative to Mono?Nov 19 00:35
yuhongWould it be better?Nov 19 00:35
yuhongBecause there aren't much on DotGNU on Boycott Novell.Nov 19 00:35
schestowitzDotGNU has no IDE AKAIKNov 19 00:36
schestowitzIt's a Wine vs Mono debateNov 19 00:36
yuhongWhat about patents?Nov 19 00:37
schestowitzSee http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/11/16/...Nov 19 00:37
schestowitzIt's discussed over there.Nov 19 00:37
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Yfrwlf.net is the best programming language evar =DNov 19 07:38
Yfrwlfj/kNov 19 07:38
Yfrwlfwhat languages are comparable to the features or whatever of .net though?  Javascript?Nov 19 07:39
YfrwlfHaha, ads based on whatever is typed in channel, that's awesome.Nov 19 07:40
Yfrwlf*zzz*  k byeNov 19 07:42
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schestowitzMorning.Nov 19 08:52
AMG1Hello.Nov 19 08:53
schestowitzWhat's up, AMG1? Any news of interest?Nov 19 08:54
AMG1Bored, just lurking.Nov 19 08:55
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KhodyNah, bored.  Just lurking.Nov 19 08:58
KhodyWhats your viewpoint on Macs in general.Nov 19 08:59
schestowitzThe operating system is solid, but it preserves the grip of non-Free software, so it's a risk.Nov 19 09:00
KhodyYOu're a linux fan, correct.Nov 19 09:00
schestowitzIt's broader than just Linux.Nov 19 09:00
KhodyWell basicaly it seems, freeware unix based OS's?Nov 19 09:01
schestowitzThere's also the philosophy, which I was less aware of in the past.Nov 19 09:04
KhodyWhat's the philosophy?Nov 19 09:05
schestowitzIt extends not only to licensing of software, but also to copyrights and social issues.Nov 19 09:08
KhodySocial issues? Please explainNov 19 09:09
schestowitzThere are examples of this: Wikipedia is one. It creates a culture of participation, not monopolisation (producer-consumer)Nov 19 09:13
KhodySame could be said about sites like myspace.Nov 19 09:16
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schestowitzYes, the concepts of so-called Web 2.0 are similar. That was just one example.Nov 19 09:18
KhodyHow does that fall back to non-Free software, I'm not making the connection.Nov 19 09:20
schestowitzIt typically restricts feedback and involvement by 'consumers'Nov 19 09:21
KhodyThere's a reason most consumers should not be involved, the interenet is not a communist regime being one of them.  Another is the majority of people are stupid and their involvement tends to make things worse.Nov 19 09:22
Khodyschestowit: It typically restricts feedback and involvement by 'consumers'Nov 19 09:23
Khodyschestowit: It typically restricts feedback and involvement by 'consumers'Nov 19 09:23
Khodysorry, dont know what happened theirNov 19 09:23
schestowitzMost projects have moderators or 'commiters'.Nov 19 09:25
Khodywhich restricts the involvement of the consumers!  Same thing as non-FreewareNov 19 09:25
schestowitzThey can fork.Nov 19 09:27
KhodyWhats that mean.Nov 19 09:27
schestowitzNot the same as mainlineNov 19 09:27
schestowitzThey can take the program or article, gain ownership and do with they like to it.Nov 19 09:28
KhodyOSX licensing is pretty loose.  They allow you to do a lot to it.  Main caluses in their licensing is to prevent you from distributing it as a whole.Nov 19 09:30
schestowitzOr even passing it to non-Apple hardwareNov 19 09:33
Khodygood pointNov 19 09:34
MinceRgeekingsNov 19 09:34
Khodyno uNov 19 09:35
MinceRyes meNov 19 09:35
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schestowitzApple marvels: Apple Adds HDCP To New Laptops; Piracy Continues, Legit Users Get Annoyed < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... >Nov 19 10:28
schestowitzThis is what scared the Americans... China turning them to their 'slaves'......... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/brea... ( Chinese Automakers May Buy GM and Chrysler )Nov 19 10:35
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Guest27182Publication of ISO/IEC 29500:2008, Information technology - Office Open XML formats  http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease...Nov 19 12:01
schestowitzThanks.Nov 19 12:03
Guest27182hello !Nov 19 12:03
schestowitzBenjamin Henrion, FFII, yesterday: "ISO is dead for software standards. Do you need an official funeral?"Nov 19 12:04
schestowitzWe can make arrangements in BN. :-)Nov 19 12:04
schestowitzWho will write the eulogy?Nov 19 12:04
Guest27182not meNov 19 12:06
schestowitzI'll do it in a moment then.Nov 19 12:07
Guest27182good bye !Nov 19 12:10
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seller_liarhttp://br-linux.org/2008/novell-prom...Nov 19 12:14
seller_liarnovell tries to expand your ms-novell interoperability in BrazilNov 19 12:14
schestowitzCan we have a translation?Nov 19 12:15
schestowitzThey tried this in Kerala/India recently.Nov 19 12:15
schestowitzWe need to rebut with information for Brazilian people.Nov 19 12:15
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seller_liarnovell uses the same idea in  brazilNov 19 12:20
seller_liarhttp://br-linux.org/2008/novell-promo...Nov 19 12:20
schestowitzWhat can we do?Nov 19 12:21
schestowitzOther than point it out, which won't be too productive?Nov 19 12:22
seller_liarbut brazil is dfferent of gandhi peopleNov 19 12:22
schestowitzseller_liar: what if we made Portuguese translations of something that explains why to avoid Novell?Nov 19 12:22
schestowitzI have some polished text about it. I'll make a FAQ soonNov 19 12:23
seller_liarpeople in brazil is very sperse ,people in brazil does nothing about novellNov 19 12:23
seller_liarthe novell iniciative is very recent in brazilNov 19 12:23
seller_liarI try to explain some ideas,but is very hardNov 19 12:23
seller_liarfor each 1 linux advocate, there are 5 or 6 m$ shillNov 19 12:24
seller_liartrmanco can help you maybeNov 19 12:25
schestowitzYes, I thought about that.Nov 19 12:25
schestowitzWe have some Chinese translationsNov 19 12:25
schestowitzNovell, like Microsoft, relies on people being naive.Nov 19 12:26
seller_liarMaybe trmanco,can create a blog with BoycottNovell translationsNov 19 12:27
seller_liarMaybe, I can help,but I need trmanco helpNov 19 12:27
seller_liarportugues brazilian and portuguese portugal are not too much differentNov 19 12:28
seller_liarAnd there are a project to internatiolization of Portuguese languageNov 19 12:29
schestowitzMaybe a couple of short explanations would do. I'll ask him (pin trmanco)Nov 19 12:29
seller_liaryesNov 19 12:29
schestowitz*ping trmanco Nov 19 12:29
seller_liarm$ annouces singularity to gain some free laborNov 19 12:33
schestowitzI know.Nov 19 12:35
schestowitzOSNews is promoting all kinds of Microsoft junk, including thisNov 19 12:35
schestowitzIt's also for Microsoft to pretend it plays ball with FOSSNov 19 12:35
seller_liarhttp://osnews.com/story/20547/Si...Nov 19 12:35
seller_liarThe big problem is some people use the word "open source"Nov 19 12:36
seller_liarin this projectNov 19 12:36
seller_liarand singularity is not open sourceNov 19 12:36
seller_liaris $hared $ourceNov 19 12:36
schestowitz*LOL* "ISO/IEC 29500:2008, Information technology – Office Open XML formats, 7 228 pages, can be purchased on a single CD-ROM for 342 Swiss francs from ISO national member institutes (see the complete list with contact details) and from ISO Central Secretariat through the ISO Store or by contacting the Marketing & Communication department (see right-hand column)."Nov 19 12:38
schestowitzOpen?Nov 19 12:38
schestowitz"...can be purchased"Nov 19 12:38
seller_liarhehe and includes a EULA tooNov 19 12:38
seller_liarhow much is 342 francs?Nov 19 12:39
schestowitzWith the currencies bouncing like crazy I'm not sure anymore.Nov 19 12:41
schestowitzWould be over $200 I imagine.Nov 19 12:41
seller_liarHigh price !Nov 19 12:44
seller_liar100$ goes to M$! hehehNov 19 12:44
schestowitzBribes don't come free.Nov 19 12:45
schestowitzThey need to cover the expenses of bribing partners and all to pay committee fees and all.Nov 19 12:46
seller_liarof courseNov 19 12:46
schestowitzClosed systems... pyramid schemes..Nov 19 12:46
seller_liarHow stupid people votes in Sarkosy?Nov 19 12:47
seller_liarFrance is crazyNov 19 12:47
seller_liarDid you see the actual process against shareaza ,sourceforge and others?Nov 19 12:47
seller_liarI'm very paranoid to creat a java implementation of .netNov 19 12:49
schestowitzThe French MAFIAA holds Sarko by the pockets.Nov 19 12:50
schestowitzIt's a regime of cronyism.Nov 19 12:50
schestowitzIn France they've called it "banaaa republic," OOXML being another example (Sarko interfered)Nov 19 12:51
seller_liarIn France  is the vote  obrigatory?Nov 19 12:53
schestowitzI think only in Sweden. Do I remember right?Nov 19 12:57
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trmancohttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogspot/HMLi/...Nov 19 15:30
twitter342 Swiss francs for a CD full of OOXML?  I'd rather listen to Prince.Nov 19 15:30
trmancohttp://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/11/...Nov 19 15:32
schestowitzYay! Google can shove clocks and weather in my eyes. :-) Well, at least they open-sourced it.Nov 19 15:32
trmanco:-PNov 19 15:32
twitterIck, China to buy GM.  They could make it even more corrupt than it is already.Nov 19 15:33
schestowitzApache still eats Microsoft's lunch.Nov 19 15:34
schestowitz1.8 compared to 1.1Nov 19 15:34
schestowitzRemember that Google's is an Apache fork.Nov 19 15:34
twitterThat lead is going to get bigger, despite the FUD M$ spews.Nov 19 15:35
twitterWAMP is insane.Nov 19 15:35
schestowitzThat's what MS is hoping. It would be interesting to see how Apache/Linux does against Apache/WindowsNov 19 15:36
schestowitzThey keynoted ApacheCon recently. RMS is against it and there's plan to discourage people from attending such events.Nov 19 15:37
schestowitzHow can one give Microsoft such a spot when it's actively threatening to sue?Nov 19 15:37
schestowitzRe: OSCON, PJ said the same.Nov 19 15:37
schestowitzMicrosoft wants the world to believe that there are two Microsofts: good cop and bad cop.Nov 19 15:38
twitterM$ does this on purpose.  It destroys the ability of their "competitors" to communicate.Nov 19 15:38
twitterThey stack the con panel and shove M$ into it.  This destroys the conference.  What's left is M$ only.Nov 19 15:38
twitterDid you see this lovely example of what the M$ world enables?  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/19/d...Nov 19 15:39
schestowitztwitter: yes, Tim O'Reilly had to apologise for saying something negative about the convicted monopolistNov 19 15:39
schestowitz[cause they sponsored his  event]Nov 19 15:39
schestowitzThey gag critics this way. I saw it with Krill.Nov 19 15:39
twitterMore reason to avoid M$ money.Nov 19 15:39
schestowitzAs you say, people like me are already repelled slightly ... wrt ApacheNov 19 15:40
schestowitzAs soon as they defend Microsoft I feel like I need to get a puke pouch.Nov 19 15:40
trmancoschestowitz, "Remember that Google's is an Apache fork." -> I forgot to mention this when I posted the link :-PNov 19 15:41
schestowitzPeople from Apache confronted us in BN. They tried to defend selling out... Microsoft is pressuring many FOSS groups, consortia and LUGs. They try to stink up the place by attending. This IRC channel too used to have 'cj' (for Microsoft).Nov 19 15:41
schestowitztrmanco: Microsoft will surely spin this though as Apache not doing so well. Lies, damn lies, and stats, y'know...Nov 19 15:42
twitterI'm not too worried.  When things really go wrong, projects like Debian fork and everyone runs to the better fork.Nov 19 15:42
schestowitzThat's the stories they'll tell uncritical journos anyway.Nov 19 15:43
twitterStinking up conferences is an old practice.  I read about them doing this to Apple.Nov 19 15:43
schestowitzWait until Microsoft tries to plant some people inside Debian [hypothetical].Nov 19 15:43
twitterMy trolls have already bragged about being Debian contributors.Nov 19 15:43
schestowitzThat would ruin it. All they need to do is seed the project with an apologist or a village fool that will open up the door... like Alex Brown in ISO.Nov 19 15:43
schestowitzMono too is entertaining Microsoft chaps.Nov 19 15:44
twitterI ignored it because the project's commitment to freedom and organization are too strong to let M$ fuck it over.Nov 19 15:44
schestowitzNovell did this in India.Nov 19 15:44
schestowitzHence the protestsNov 19 15:44
schestowitzRead the remarks from Anivar.. they excluded OpenOffice.org, Red Hat, etc. It was Novell stealing the show stealthily.Nov 19 15:45
schestowitzRMS approved what the guys did.Nov 19 15:45
twitterM$ can damage Debian by setting up arguments that waste time but M$ will fail before Debian does.Nov 19 15:45
schestowitzIt's claimed that they already do this in UbuntuNov 19 15:45
twitterThey do it everywhere.Nov 19 15:46
schestowitzRequesting Silverlight, defending Mono's presence, etc. I'm told this by people.Nov 19 15:46
twitter "Mind Control: To control mental output you to have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!"   http://docs.google.com/Present?do...Nov 19 15:47
twitterEverywhere developers meet, M$ will spew poison.Nov 19 15:47
schestowitzYes, I know.Nov 19 15:47
schestowitzThat's a MUST-ATTEND talk at Microsoft.Nov 19 15:47
schestowitzThe guy who wrote it said so.Nov 19 15:47
twitterM$ wastes untold billions of dollars pushing that kind of poison.Nov 19 15:48
schestowitz"Gentoo user" is one of your stalkers in BNNov 19 15:49
schestowitzThat 'person' never talks about the subjects at hand. Just ad hominem, IIRC.Nov 19 15:50
twitteryes.  They keep posting the same crap.Nov 19 15:50
twitterIt's spam.Nov 19 15:50
schestowitzWho goes by the Linux vanity name "Gentoo user" anyway?Nov 19 15:50
schestowitzAnd why Gentoo? To say "I'm hardcore 1337 *nix"?Nov 19 15:50
twitterFor a while, while it was new and difficult, the M$ trolls were promoting gentoo.Nov 19 15:51
twitterThere's nothing like throwing a newbie to the something like that to sour them on the whole GNU/Linux experience for years.Nov 19 15:52
twitterThe name choice may lend credibility for readers who know nothing, which is what M$ is interested in.Nov 19 15:53
twitterAnyone who knows anything quickly dumps Windows as a platform.Nov 19 15:54
twitterM$ is all about delaying that and staying relevant.Nov 19 15:54
twitterThe trolls used to bug me about the name "twitter" too.Nov 19 15:56
twitterI chose it because that's what I do to equipment to make it work well.  It turned out to be a good choice from the way the M$ people hear my posts like a gaggle of angry birds.Nov 19 15:58
twitterIf Kennedy thinks someone at M$ hates him, Kennedy should watch my stuff sometimes.  :)Nov 19 16:00
trmancoHey cool, Portuguese media promoting Ubuntu: http://ciberia.aeiou.pt/?st=10581Nov 19 16:02
twitterM$FT, still under $20, and they will fall off the cliff with the rest of the market as the GWB administration has promised to sit on it's hands instead of bailing out home owners.  LA Times had a good article on this.Nov 19 16:03
trmancoand some more: http://tek.sapo.pt/noticias/computadores/... | http://tek.sapo.pt/noticias/computado...Nov 19 16:06
schestowitzMicrosoft promoting Gentoo, eh? I think I know why.Nov 19 16:06
schestowitzCreate some more bitter experiences...Nov 19 16:06
schestowitztwitter: I can check the logs to see what 'Gentoo user' runs.Nov 19 16:07
schestowitz[unless there's header spoofing]Nov 19 16:07
twitterthat will be interesting.Nov 19 16:07
twitterhere's the article http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...Nov 19 16:07
twitterBasically, Paulson has promised to do nothing and to ignore homeowner problems.  The stock market and economy will tank on that kind of news.Nov 19 16:08
schestowitzHehe.Nov 19 16:10
schestowitzI just realised that Microsoft employed Gentoo's founder. Take that thought further...Nov 19 16:10
schestowitz[sarcasm] What if Microsoft created and promoted the most difficult and frustrating Linux, then promoted it?Nov 19 16:11
twitterThat may have happened but it backfired.Nov 19 16:11
twitterI have yet to try it out but I keep hearing good things about it and that people actually use it.Nov 19 16:13
twitterI like the Debian way better because most people only want to tweak one or two programs at a time.Nov 19 16:13
schestowitzHa!Nov 19 16:15
schestowitzThis is funny.Nov 19 16:15
schestowitzGentoio user in November:Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─——————————— —————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz└─(16:12 $)─> gunzip boNov 19 16:16
schestowitzboycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gz       boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gz.partNov 19 16:16
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─——————————— —————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz└─(16:12 $)─> gunzip boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008.gzNov 19 16:16
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Wed, 19 Nov 08)─—————————— ——————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz└─(16:14 $)─> grep 12.10.219.36 boycottnovell.com-Nov-2008Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:47 -0500] "GET /wp-content/themes/ocadia/styNov 19 16:16
schestowitzle.css HTTP/1.0" 200 8903 "http://boycottnovell.com/category/irc-logs/" "MozillaNov 19 16:16
schestowitz.0.17"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:47 -0500] "GET /category/irc-logs/ HTTP/1.0"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz 200 69745 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) GecNov 19 16:16
schestowitzko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] "GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/9Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz35815___mine__.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 17438 "http://boycottnovell.com/" "Mozilla/5.0Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz(Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] "GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/9Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz52151_abraham_lincoln.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 12788 "http://boycottnovell.com/" "MozilNov 19 16:16
schestowitzla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz.0.0.17"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 99315 "http:/Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:51 -0500] "GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jNov 19 16:16
schestowitzonathan_20zuck.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 96877 "http://boycottnovell.com/" "Mozilla/5.0Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz(Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz"Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz12.10.219.36 - - [03/Nov/2008:12:49:52 -0500] "GET /wp-content/uploads/2008/11/1Nov 19 16:16
schestowitz016609_laundry.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 9346 "http://boycottnovell.com/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Nov 19 16:16
schestowitzWindows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17Nov 19 16:16
schestowitzThat's just a portion.Nov 19 16:16
schestowitzIt's always Windows.Nov 19 16:16
schestowitzSeems like your stalker "Gentoo user" has not much to do with GNU/Linux at all.Nov 19 16:17
schestowitzHe came with this IP address several times this month.Nov 19 16:17
schestowitzI assume it's a daily routine because there are gaps in the logs (probably dynamic IP)Nov 19 16:18
trmancohttp://dag.wieers.com/blog/centos...Nov 19 16:23
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schestowitz_doug: we found some funny biznizNov 19 16:27
twitterha ha.Nov 19 16:30
twitterJust another PR drone with talking points.Nov 19 16:31
twitter[s]talking pointsNov 19 16:31
_dougwhere ?Nov 19 16:32
schestowitzI'll do a post, _doug. One minuteNov 19 16:32
twitterM$ probably demands that kind of control over their PR people because of the damage they could do if they ever had a change of heart.Nov 19 16:32
twitterM$ must keep iron fisted control over all communications to that kind of scum.Nov 19 16:33
twitterFunny how that leads them to the most porous OS on Earth.Nov 19 16:33
twitterbut they would not want to have a Kennedy incident where the Exchange recall notice was just more incriminationNov 19 16:34
_dougkennedy incident ?Nov 19 16:36
twitterIn more interesting news, M$FT is flirting with another 52 week low, only 11 cents to go and it's falling like a rock.Nov 19 16:36
schestowitzOK, done. It's in FP now.Nov 19 16:37
twitterKennedy was invited to a conference then un invited.  W.E. tried to hide the univite by recalling the invite.  Kennedy's mail server was not Exchange, so the emailed recall notice just sat there as another embarrassmentNov 19 16:38
schestowitz_doug: not John.Nov 19 16:38
schestowitztwitter beat me to it.Nov 19 16:38
_dougahh . I recall ....Nov 19 16:38
schestowitzWait, twitter.Nov 19 16:38
schestowitzWas W-E behind it?Nov 19 16:38
schestowitzI didn't know that.Nov 19 16:38
schestowitzEdelman was behind the first Great Laptop Bribe.Nov 19 16:39
schestowitzre: "Gentoo user": http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/tr...Nov 19 16:39
twitterYes, they did the invites.  It was in Kennedy's little hissy fit.Nov 19 16:39
schestowitzAh... wait.. I'll write about it then.Nov 19 16:40
MinceR171900 <@schestowitz> [sarcasm] What if Microsoft created and promoted the most difficult and frustrating Linux, then promoted it?Nov 19 16:42
MinceRthey're already doing itNov 19 16:42
MinceRit's called suse.Nov 19 16:42
trmancohttp://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-to-su...Nov 19 16:43
trmancothis is just stupidNov 19 16:43
_dougWhat exactly is "Gentoo user" tryign to do ?Nov 19 16:43
twitterDo anyone have a link to the CW article where he complains?  I'd like to link to it myself.Nov 19 16:43
twitterGentoo user is a twitter stalkierNov 19 16:43
_dougWhat's all the "le.css HTTP/1.0? 200 8903" stuff ?Nov 19 16:44
_dougHe's Wgetting on the IRC logs ?Nov 19 16:44
*schestowitz doing a quick post about W-ENov 19 16:44
schestowitzNaming the crooks and cronies is important for future reference.Nov 19 16:45
twitterhere we go, http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop...Nov 19 16:48
twitter" Oct. 3, 2008 –- I receive an e-mail from Julie McCormick at Waggener Edstrom in which she extends a "special save-the-date" invitation to attend a "unique, invitation-only" event being hosted by the Windows Client team. She labels the subject matter as "confidential""Nov 19 16:49
twitter" Oct. 8, 2008 –- I receive a mysterious "recall" notice in my Outlook Inbox from this same Julie McCormick. Apparently, she's trying to "unsend" the aforementioned invitation e-mail. Fortunately, I don't use Exchange Server`"Nov 19 16:50
schestowitzthanks.Nov 19 16:50
schestowitzI'll add it. It's almost done.Nov 19 16:50
twitter:)  glad to help.Nov 19 16:51
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.254.136) has joined #boycottnovellNov 19 16:58
Omar87schestowitz: There's small typo in the latest post at Boycottnovell.Nov 19 17:01
Omar87“Mind Control: To control mental output you ((to)) have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!”Nov 19 17:01
schestowitzI'm going to flag every comment ever posted by Gentoo user.Nov 19 17:01
schestowitzHey, Omar87 Nov 19 17:03
schestowitzWhich is the typo? I've just looked.Nov 19 17:04
schestowitzOh, I see nowNov 19 17:04
twitterSorry about that, the error was in the original, I think.Nov 19 17:07
twitterHere's Kennedy spilling the beans on the "great laptop giveaway" http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedes...Nov 19 17:07
schestowitzI can see now that I go through comments (flagging them with "<font color="#ff0000"><b>Note</b>: comment arrived from a <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/trol..." rel="nofollow">witch hunter that does not even use GNU/Linux</a>.</font>" ) that Gentoo User has multiple IPsNov 19 17:07
schestowitzWitch-hunting freedom fighters is not the same as chasing shills, so...Nov 19 17:08
schestowitzOkay, all the comment are now flagged appropriately (e.g. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/irc... ). There's no room for stalking and abuse, as opposed to politely debate.Nov 19 17:12
Omar87schestowitz: did it ever happen that some Microsoft fanboys came to this room and started yapping about the merits of Microsoft?Nov 19 17:16
schestowitzInnocent kis.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/wag... .. unlike W-ENov 19 17:17
schestowitz*kidNov 19 17:17
schestowitzOmar87: yes, it happens frequently.Nov 19 17:17
schestowitzRecent example: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09...  (he was also here yesterday)Nov 19 17:18
Omar87schestowitz: cool! Then I'll stick around as long as possible, just in case it happens again any time soon. :-)Nov 19 17:19
schestowitzOStatic is being trolled these days with provocation in comments from "MSFT" (they trash the site)Nov 19 17:19
schestowitzThe important thing is having it documented for people to learn from.Nov 19 17:19
_dougThe Linux groups are totally trolled as well .. by pretend supporters .. more like monitored .. :)Nov 19 17:23
twitterthanks.Nov 19 17:23
schestowitzSlog.doc mentions trolling "newsgroups" tooNov 19 17:24
PetoKraushttp://pk.gjhak.sk/?uid=112 ;)Nov 19 17:25
Omar87Guys, isn't funny that MSFT, which is HUGE Corporation calls an innocent community project, founded by an innocent high school geek student "A challenge"??Nov 19 17:26
Omar87isn't *it* funny..Nov 19 17:26
schestowitzIt's not just a challengeNov 19 17:27
schestowitzMicrosoft has called Linux its #1 competition. Not Apple, not Google either.Nov 19 17:27
schestowitzMicrosoft ain't so huge either. IBM is FAR bigger, for instance.Nov 19 17:27
Omar87Actually, you can tell how much Linux is winning by counting how many times they mentioned the sentence " *rise* to the challenge". :)Nov 19 17:28
schestowitzRise. Reminds me of WWNov 19 17:29
Omar87WW?Nov 19 17:29
schestowitzWorld War.Nov 19 17:29
Omar87Yeah, that's what I thought. :)Nov 19 17:30
schestowitzRemember what Microsoft says: "Evangelism is WAR"Nov 19 17:30
schestowitzMicrosoft and Militant both starts with "Mi" ;-)Nov 19 17:30
twitterFreedom challenges their business model.Nov 19 17:30
Omar87twitter: Exactly.Nov 19 17:30
schestowitzBusiness model: restrict choice so that people haven't a choice but to buy from us.Nov 19 17:31
schestowitzMeans: blackmailing OEMs, colluding with Intel, mailicious sabotage of rival du jour (e.g. Google), ignore standards and so on.Nov 19 17:31
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Nov 19 17:32
twitterThey even want to restrict what you think about.  Sick.Nov 19 17:32
twitterSlog on Yahoo.  I keep reading headlines about Yahoo's stock "jumping" now that Yang quit, but I don't see any real motion.  http://finance.google.com/finance...Nov 19 17:32
schestowitzPetoKraus: they sent you anthrax?Nov 19 17:32
PetoKrausschestowitz: almost :DNov 19 17:33
Omar87schestowitz: Yeah, but with Linux, it's a totally different case, because Linux ain't no business, it's an entire community, regardless of the fact that some businesses benefit from it. :)Nov 19 17:33
schestowitzI got sent weird stuff too.Nov 19 17:33
schestowitzSome family from the US sending photos and articles asking for a donation. Must have cost time and money to produce and mass-send this to the UKNov 19 17:33
_dougre: Yahoo stock, didn't MS make it's original offer when the the stock was in a trough ?Nov 19 17:33
schestowitzBrits are an easy target because they are renowned for being good donours. This means a good 'success rate'(R). RoI.Nov 19 17:34
_dougI wonder who is buying the stock, now that Yang is leaving, assuming the stock 'jump' had anything to do with it :)Nov 19 17:34
Omar87http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mostactive.aspx...Nov 19 17:38
Omar87MSFT's shares are 18.91, they have dropped by 0.71 (3.62%) :)Nov 19 17:40
twitterThat's the thing, _doug, there has been no "jump"Nov 19 17:43
twitterYang explained to the SEC that no M$ was never serious about his offer.Nov 19 17:43
twitterThe whole thing was a Slog, saying stupid things about Yahoo's [fictional] eminent demise.  The whole notion of Yahoo not being able to survive on it's own is crazy, but the Wintel press repeated the lie thousands of times.Nov 19 17:44
schestowitzIf MSFT buys YHOO, it can then be left with a debt of about 20-30bnNov 19 17:45
twitterYahoo is huge and has a huge audience that should be easy to make money with.  It got a little harder when the US DOJ shot down Yahoo's deal with Google.Nov 19 17:45
schestowitzI'm not sure what the worth of YHOO is at the moment, but if they buy them somewhere along the way after completing the buybacks, the loan Microsoft takes can be greater than its physical assets.Nov 19 17:46
schestowitzHow much do you reckon Microsoft's headquarters and all are worth?Nov 19 17:46
twitterNot muchNov 19 17:46
schestowitzDon't tell me about intangible -shit- things like IP and copyrights (code, patents).Nov 19 17:46
twitterreal estate is not a good business right now.Nov 19 17:46
schestowitz:-(Nov 19 17:46
schestowitzBummer for the VoleNov 19 17:46
schestowitzMaybe they can squeeze some goosesNov 19 17:47
schestowitzY'know, B[lack]SOD those PCs in China screaming for money.Nov 19 17:47
twitterThey could save themselves if they knocked off all the advertising and PR stupidity.Nov 19 17:47
schestowitzOne last blow before the ship sinks...Nov 19 17:47
schestowitzKind of like SCO shooting up high when suing that Lunix thing for being 'ownership' of SCONov 19 17:48
twitterSqueezing their customers.Nov 19 17:48
schestowitzSome say it was inside-trading and stock-trading fraudNov 19 17:48
schestowitzPump-n-dump that is...Nov 19 17:48
twitterI think I got the Educational rip off article from here, where they got Australian old folks homes to invest heavily in M$ crap then eliminated their software "discount" price.Nov 19 17:49
schestowitz1. Buy SCOX. 2. Make up story of rigs [sic] and riches. 3. Sell stock... 4) profit!Nov 19 17:49
schestowitzToday: "In these last eight years, I have witnessed an appalling decline in shareholder value of this extraordinary business enterprise. My personal shareholder value has been steadily destroyed both in actual and potential value." http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Reflec...Nov 19 17:50
twitterSqueezing the old folks, http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=v...Nov 19 17:50
twitterIck, Yahoo hit's new 52 week low, http://finance.google.com/finance?q=...Nov 19 17:52
twitterWow, that one is going into the M$ Death Watch.Nov 19 17:55
schestowitzURL?Nov 19 18:03
schestowitzBoy Collapses After Playing 'World of Warcraft' for 24 Hours < http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933... > b0rk,b0rk, b0rk (Swedish kid)Nov 19 18:03
trmancolooks like the Cray XT5 is now the worlds fastest super computerNov 19 18:05
schestowitzIs that the Red Hat-powered one?Nov 19 18:06
schestowitzNovell lost the top spot about 4 months ago, so it did a press release to celebrate while it lasted.Nov 19 18:07
trmancoschestowitz, don't know, but it runs some kind of LinuxNov 19 18:11
schestowitzAnti-twitter huddle: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/t...Nov 19 18:11
trmancothe IBM roadrunner runs Fedora I think, but I'm not sure about XT5Nov 19 18:12
schestowitzIt could be Fedora.Nov 19 18:12
schestowitzNo, wait. I'm sure it was Red Hat... but it might not be ready yet.Nov 19 18:12
schestowitzRed Hat also made several HPC announcements recently.Nov 19 18:12
schestowitzOn the mainframe, IBM promote SUSE. I think IBM plays plastic troops with Red Hat and SUSE to knock down the price.Nov 19 18:13
schestowitzI don't like IBM. I told their VP during the weekend: "By the way, I still hold IBM partly accountable for what's happening with Novell. I hope they can change."Nov 19 18:14
schestowitzHe said: ""I don't understand your comment. Trust whom? You mean because Mahugh showed up at the ODF meeting? It's better having them there where they are somewhat accountable than off by themselves doing whatever. And congratulating them on joining does not mean I trust them.""Nov 19 18:15
schestowitzResponse: "I understand that. I also remember how they fought ODF... just as they fought many things... or 'extended' them. There is an analogous thing here, actually. Some projects gamble on a Windows port because they could use the market share; little do they know about what will happen to APIs later. I'd ask you this: do you /trust/ Microsoft?"Nov 19 18:15
schestowitzTell IBM to boycott Novell and see how they react. :-) :-) They funded the SUSE takover.Nov 19 18:15
schestowitz*takeoverNov 19 18:15
Omar87schestowitz: It makes me sad every time I find another social networking site built using ASP.NET.. :(Nov 19 18:16
schestowitzThere are not many of these. Maybe it's different in Jordan.Nov 19 18:16
schestowitzLAMP is de facto choice for such sites.Nov 19 18:16
schestowitzBy FAR.Nov 19 18:17
Omar87Orkut and Myspace are built in ASP.NET.Nov 19 18:18
Omar87Let alone Facebook that although it's built in PHP, it still serves M$ in a way or another.Nov 19 18:18
schestowitzBoycottNovell in Techworld: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/26...Nov 19 18:19
*modoe (i=55b73092@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ca539bdf80a0ef3a) has joined #boycottnovellNov 19 18:30
modoehiNov 19 18:30
schestowitzHey there. What's up?Nov 19 18:30
*modoe has quit (Client Quit)Nov 19 18:30
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 19 18:36
schestowitzThese comments are largely positive: http://www.computerworld.com/comm...Nov 19 18:38
twitterM$ bought a 15% stake in Facebook.  I don't know if they will be allowed to monkey with the way the site works but I won't put personal information into it.Nov 19 18:45
schestowitzWhenever I see articles from the MSBBC is smells like an advert: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn... ( " Microsoft to offer free security")Nov 19 18:52
schestowitzLinux offers "free security" too (libre even). It's baked in.Nov 19 18:52
schestowitzCensorship attempts: "Paul Flynn was told to remove posts including ones calling ex-Labour minister Peter Hain a "shapeshifter" and Lib Dem MP Lembit Opik a "clown"." < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_p... >Nov 19 18:54
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/1... "BT has banned all future discussion of Phorm and its "WebWise" targeted advertising product on its customer forums, and deleted all past threads about the controversy dating back to February."Nov 19 18:56
MinceRmicrosoft doesn't realize that security isn't an add-on feature.Nov 19 18:56
schestowitzWell, they make it seem that way, though.Nov 19 18:57
schestowitzLike "the Internet is a Blue E"Nov 19 18:57
MinceR:)Nov 19 18:57
schestowitzWindows is so fat that on mini-PCs it goes with the dying fork known as "Windows Mobile". This is just sad: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/...Nov 19 18:59
MinceRat least wm doesn't have drive lettersNov 19 18:59
schestowitzLatest reports on pending demise of WM: http://www.australianit.news.com.au/s... http://news.zdnet.co.uk/leader/0,100000...Nov 19 18:59
schestowitzMinceR: it hardly has /anything/. It can't evolve with the rest because it LACKS MODULARITYNov 19 19:00
schestowitzRemember that Microsoft has just patented the modular O/S...Nov 19 19:00
schestowitzThey realise that they can scale from finger sized PCs to supercomputers if they separate the modules, but they never got around to it.Nov 19 19:00
MinceR:)Nov 19 19:01
schestowitzThey were going to. I heard it from a Munchkin (Erik Funkenbusch) around 2005 or 2006. Vista was such a mess (Longhorn actually) that they binned it along with the plan of modularity. Along with other things like WinFS, SOAP...Nov 19 19:03
MinceRSOAP exists independently of themNov 19 19:04
MinceRit's just a horribly bloated version of XMLRPCNov 19 19:04
schestowitz"Ziff Davis, the tech/gaming media company that recently exited Chapter 11 bankruptcy, is now taking the brave but inevitable step of closing down the print version of PCMag to focus its energy on its growing PCMag online network of sites, led by flagship PCmag.com" http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-ziff-dav...Nov 19 19:09
schestowitzTBH, I'd rather see them deceased. ZIff/Gates is notoriously 'Wintel press'. I should add that Microsoft was exposed asking employees to comment in sites like ZDNet. There are many stories that show the obscene level of manipulation.Nov 19 19:10
twitterBill Gates used "security" to reward himself as a high school student on a time share.Nov 19 19:11
twitterhttp://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/G...Nov 19 19:12
schestowitzWhich part?Nov 19 19:13
twitterfirst computing experienceNov 19 19:14
schestowitz"The Computer Center Corporation's business was beginning to suffer due to the systems weak security and the frequency that it crashed. Impressed with Gates and the other Lakeside computer addicts' previous assaults on their computer, the Computer Center Corporation decided to hire the students to find bugs and expose weaknesses in the computer system. "Nov 19 19:14
schestowitzThis?Nov 19 19:14
twitterBetter like this "In the fall of 1968 ... [gates and friends] caused the system to crash several times and broke the computers security system. They even altered the files that recorded the amount of computer time they were using. ... the Computer Center Corporation decided to hire the students to find bugs and expose weaknesses in the computer system. In return for the Lakeside Programming Group's help, the Computer Center CorporNov 19 19:15
schestowitzThis is funny: "In return for the Lakeside Programming Group's help, the Computer Center Corporation would give them unlimited computer time [Wallace, 1992, p. 27]. The boys could not refuse."Nov 19 19:15
schestowitzThis is so familiar. Like "Microsoft makes jobs..."         [for people to clean viruses]Nov 19 19:15
schestowitzOh, I see... so Gates had engaged in Technical sabotage long before OS/2 and DR-DOS days.Nov 19 19:16
twitterYes, Gates broke the system to give himself time.  He then used the brokenness of the system to sell himself as the repair man.  Windows does the same thing still, it will never be fixed.Nov 19 19:16
schestowitzI didn't know about this mischief. I'll point this out later.Nov 19 19:17
twitterContrast this to RMS, who did everything possible to give Everyone access to computing resources that were not being used.Nov 19 19:17
twitterSame problem, computing scarcity, very different solutions.Nov 19 19:18
twitterOne was entirely selfish and continues to exploit their position for personal gain.  The other continues to help his neighbors.Nov 19 19:18
twitter"defense contractor TRW was having  trouble with a bug infested computer similar to the one at Computer Center Corporation.  TRW had  learned of the experience the two had working on the Computer Center Corporation's system and  offered Gates and Allen jobs.  However thing would be different at TRW they would not be finding  the bugs "Nov 19 19:19
schestowitzThanks for pointing that out. It's clear why the Munckins in /. are so afraid.Nov 19 19:19


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