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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 29th, 2008

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schestowitzhttp://rodgerdean.org/blog/2008/11/28/ope... (Open Letter to Mr.Hervé Yahi, Mandriva CEO)Nov 29 00:00
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/...Nov 29 00:24
schestowitzWhat is the opposite of "analogy"?Nov 29 00:40
[H]omerantithesisNov 29 01:03
schestowitzToo late, but thanks.Nov 29 01:03
[H]omerI just got here :)Nov 29 01:04
schestowitzIt also didn't fit the context (samba vs mono)Nov 29 01:04
schestowitzAn argument I was having.,.. I posted the reply a while ago.Nov 29 01:04
[H]omerI guess a lot can happen in 25 minutesNov 29 01:05
schestowitzMono is very much on the edge at the moment. The Mono boosters are shaky.Nov 29 01:05
[H]omerI just read about Adam WilliamsonNov 29 01:06
schestowitzYes, I wrote about it too.Nov 29 01:07
schestowitzFirst Gael, now him?Nov 29 01:07
[H]omerGood thing I don't have a job to lose, or they'd be firing me for criticising LeechBuntu too.Nov 29 01:07
schestowitzI think they are just threatened by spiritual leaders... so the CEOs get rid of them.Nov 29 01:07
schestowitz[H]omer: Adam mailed about it.Nov 29 01:07
schestowitzI spread his post about Canonical around because he was interested.Nov 29 01:08
[H]omerJust one of the many problems with "commercial" distos. It's money first; last and always.Nov 29 01:08
schestowitzBut he also said some things about TrueCrypt, calling them names.Nov 29 01:08
[H]omerReally? I missed that. Like what?Nov 29 01:08
schestowitzThe French government should adopt Mandriva.Nov 29 01:09
schestowitzThey already adopt the Real Deal in Parliament?Nov 29 01:09
schestowitzThose fools went with... *drumroll*... hypeBuntuNov 29 01:09
schestowitzWait...Nov 29 01:09
[H]omerI've been a Ubuntu critic from day one, as you well know ;)Nov 29 01:10
schestowitzHere it is: http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/08/06/ope...Nov 29 01:10
[H]omerThis latest fiasco just proves my pointNov 29 01:10
schestowitzYou can't say bad things about UbuntuNov 29 01:10
schestowitzAnd gosh... did I get slapped for daring to criticise Big Mark.Nov 29 01:10
[H]omerShuttleworth is breeding a generation of Linux users with "Windows mentality"Nov 29 01:10
schestowitzLike going into a church, then scolding GodNov 29 01:11
[H]omerLOLNov 29 01:11
schestowitzNobody's perfectNov 29 01:11
schestowitzI have Ubuntu at home and at work (among other distros)Nov 29 01:11
schestowitzI love Ubuntu, I love Mandriva and Fedora, but I also love traveling between distro.Nov 29 01:11
schestowitzIt's not like a g/f... there are no 'fidelity' issues. ;-)Nov 29 01:11
schestowitzSo I told Adam about this... that saying bad things about Canonical/Ubuntu is asking for trouble.Nov 29 01:12
schestowitzHe didn't mind.Nov 29 01:12
schestowitzThen Jono Bacon slammed his with a rude rebuttal.Nov 29 01:12
[H]omerI just stick with Fedora, as a RH old-timer. I tried Debian once, and I really wanted to like it, since it seems more politically in tune with my ideals, but I just hated APT/dpkg, and had to get back to RPM.Nov 29 01:13
MinceRgnNov 29 01:13
schestowitz#1 distroNov 29 01:13
schestowitzRed Hat Enterprise [GNU/]LinuxNov 29 01:13
schestowitzThere's Omega for those who want easeNov 29 01:13
schestowitzLinpus is Fedora too...Nov 29 01:13
[H]omerBLAG is very interesting, especially their goals.Nov 29 01:14
[H]omerVery anti-establishmentNov 29 01:14
[H]omerI likeNov 29 01:14
schestowitzAnti?Nov 29 01:14
MinceRinterblag?Nov 29 01:14
schestowitzOr pro-distablishment?Nov 29 01:14
[H]omerjust anti-control / anarchisticNov 29 01:14
MinceRpseudoantidisestablishmentarianism.Nov 29 01:14
schestowitzI C..Nov 29 01:14
[H]omerquasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianismNov 29 01:15
schestowitzThey must be on Clown's terror list then...Nov 29 01:15
[H]omerprobablyNov 29 01:15
MinceRnice one, [H]omerNov 29 01:15
schestowitz"Send those Icelandic terrorists back home..."Nov 29 01:15
[H]omerI know I amNov 29 01:15
MinceR:>Nov 29 01:15
MinceRquasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianisticNov 29 01:15
schestowitzTheir mouths... they're like... errr... bombsNov 29 01:15
[H]omerHeck, I'm even on Red Hat's "watch list"Nov 29 01:15
MinceR(2 more letters!)Nov 29 01:16
[H]omerquasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianistically speakingNov 29 01:16
[H]omerbeat that!Nov 29 01:16
[H]omer:)Nov 29 01:17
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longes...Nov 29 01:17
[H]omerYeah, it's a chemical or molecule or somethingNov 29 01:17
schestowitz"Those people of Iceland... They say all those rude things... like quasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianisti"Nov 29 01:17
[H]omerisn't it?Nov 29 01:17
schestowitzI bet some spelling bee dork memorised it alreadyNov 29 01:18
schestowitzNot that a human brain can retain useless info for long, but never mind that...Nov 29 01:18
[H]omerThen there's the name of that Welsh town, that goes on for about 100 lettersNov 29 01:18
[H]omerClan... somethingNov 29 01:18
[H]omerI think it ends gogogochNov 29 01:18
[H]omermaybeNov 29 01:19
schestowitzLet's treat our kids like ol' skool punch card... for show and raves.Nov 29 01:19
[H]omerPunch *bags* more likeNov 29 01:19
schestowitz> I think it ends gogogoch ;     is that another flatty nym?Nov 29 01:19
[H]omerNah, too long. He lacks the brain power to remember itNov 29 01:20
MinceRtitinNov 29 01:20
schestowitzHe envies Rex.Nov 29 01:20
MinceRhttp://www.freemedialibrary.com/index.php/Methio...Nov 29 01:20
schestowitzAs well as many people.Nov 29 01:20
[H]omerMinceR, that's the oneNov 29 01:20
schestowitzLonesome slow-witted guy... possibly a shill for a living.Nov 29 01:20
MinceRand there's also "smiles"Nov 29 01:20
schestowitzHe still stalks me in sites to harrass.Nov 29 01:21
[H]omerIs Smith still stalking you too?Nov 29 01:21
schestowitzYes, but silently.Nov 29 01:21
[H]omerHe *hates* it when I call him a stalker. I mean really; really *hates* it.Nov 29 01:22
[H]omer:)Nov 29 01:22
[H]omerWell ... he *is*Nov 29 01:22
schestowitzHe mods everything of mine down and occasionally he crocks about something he read from me, referring to "someone from this NG"Nov 29 01:22
[H]omerHe should find a new hobby, before he winds-up in jailNov 29 01:22
schestowitzThat's why he's silent. He's embarrassed about it.Nov 29 01:23
schestowitzHe knows my profile better than me.Nov 29 01:23
[H]omerIn which case why does he still hang around?Nov 29 01:23
schestowitzIt's spooky when they start posting stats of mine in COLA... things I would never find out myself.Nov 29 01:23
[H]omerIt must be a very sad person who spends so much time /deliberately/ seeking the company if his enemies.Nov 29 01:23
schestowitzUnless he's paid to do this or something..Nov 29 01:24
[H]omerUhuNov 29 01:24
schestowitzIt has gone on for too long to be an occasional kick.Nov 29 01:24
[H]omerIt's pretty damned obvious they're MunchkinsNov 29 01:24
schestowitzI posted something 2 hours ago.Nov 29 01:25
[H]omerI just wish they could be exposed, so they could be prosecuted under the new EU anti-shill lawsNov 29 01:25
schestowitzBarkto: Nov 29 01:25
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/28/s...Nov 29 01:25
[H]omerYeah well, like I said earlier ... I don't have a job to lose (retired) so the "Web scrubbers" can bring it on/Nov 29 01:27
[H]omerI'll criticise and expose the Evil Empire€® to my dying breathNov 29 01:27
schestowitzThey might die before they get exposed again.Nov 29 01:29
schestowitzI have quite the catalog of shills in BN, but it's scattered all around.Nov 29 01:29
schestowitzRemember that yuhoung chap?Nov 29 01:29
schestowitzYou almost kicked him (I never would)Nov 29 01:29
schestowitzWell, turns out he's from Seattle.Nov 29 01:29
[H]omerIs it true that Canonical does the same as Microsoft - i.e. have *paid* "evangelists"?Nov 29 01:30
schestowitzHe also shills for the Vole in Roughly Drafted.Nov 29 01:30
schestowitzAnd wait for this......Nov 29 01:30
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09...Nov 29 01:30
schestowitzWatch how he slinks away..Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz[H]omer: I don't think so. Would Apple ever do such a thing. I don't believe it.Nov 29 01:31
[H]omerI can actually believe they do. No rational person could be /that/ much of a frothing fanboy for one distro or another. I mean I like Fedora, but you don't see me "evangelising" it by slating other distros. The only criticisms I ever level at other distros is if they sell out or in some way harm the communityNov 29 01:35
[H]omerLike Ubuntu doesNov 29 01:35
[H]omerand NovellNov 29 01:35
[H]omer"Proprietary Linux"Nov 29 01:36
schestowitzThey wouldn't get away without being caught.Nov 29 01:36
schestowitz[Canonical]Nov 29 01:36
schestowitzApple has all sorts of evangelists.. it's a cult similar to Microsoft.. or "ecosystem" if you like.Nov 29 01:36
[H]omerWell the Vole succeeded in doing so with complete impunity for decadesNov 29 01:36
schestowitzMicrosoft is a huge issue because it attacks rivals.Nov 29 01:37
[H]omerbrbNov 29 01:37
schestowitzApple could become the sameNov 29 01:37
[H]omerStill up?Nov 29 02:03
schestowitzYes, posting stuff.Nov 29 02:04
schestowitzWhere were we?Nov 29 02:04
schestowitzAh, shills...Nov 29 02:04
schestowitzApple was successful at brewing its fans and Ubuntu likewise.Nov 29 02:05
[H]omerJust to change the subject, and lighten the mood ... I've been playing around with Amiga emulation for the last couple of daysNov 29 02:05
[H]omerEver used an Amiga (real or otherwise)?Nov 29 02:05
schestowitzOn your PC system?Nov 29 02:05
schestowitzNo, it's before my generationNov 29 02:06
[H]omerYes, e-uae under LinuxNov 29 02:06
schestowitzMy older neighbour had AtariNov 29 02:06
[H]omerYou should buy a second-hand machine and play around with it. It really reminds you of what's so much fun about computingNov 29 02:06
schestowitzBut the games are nostalgic to you.Nov 29 02:07
schestowitzPong, for example, would do nothing to me.. not of sentimental value anywayNov 29 02:07
[H]omerI've been thinking a lot about the "fun" element recently. It's seems missing from modern computersNov 29 02:07
schestowitzIt's to do with early experiences.Nov 29 02:07
[H]omerThe "Golden Era"Nov 29 02:08
schestowitzModern computing and older people? You need to ask kids.Nov 29 02:08
schestowitzThey have a tough time coming.Nov 29 02:08
schestowitzI wouldn't have kids any time in the next 5 years.Nov 29 02:08
[H]omerIt was the diversity, I think, and the choices that made it so interestingNov 29 02:08
schestowitzhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20... ( Blooomberg 11/25: Food Prices Will Rise, Causing Export Bans, Riots: Chart of Day  )Nov 29 02:08
schestowitzhttp://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601... ( Bloomberg 11/24: U.S. Pledges Top $7.7 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit )Nov 29 02:08
schestowitzhttp://www.cnbc.com/id/27835645 ( CNBC 11/21: All US Financials Will be Nationalized in a Year: Manager )Nov 29 02:08
[H]omerBleh ... US economics. (yawn)Nov 29 02:09
[H]omerLet 'em all fryNov 29 02:09
[H]omerin the fat of their own greedNov 29 02:09
schestowitz[Mr. T voice] I pity the fool who just bought a house on a mortgage and made 2 kidsNov 29 02:09
schestowitzUK is no sunshine, either, but not nearly as bad.Nov 29 02:10
[H]omerLOL, you make it sound like the kids were built in a factoryNov 29 02:10
schestowitzI hear the debt here is less than 100bnNov 29 02:10
schestowitzNot 10trNov 29 02:10
schestowitz[H]omer: yes, I was being sarcastic for comical effectNov 29 02:11
[H]omerThat's what greed does. You hoard iit all, then lose it all (binge and purge), just like an anorexic, only with wider consequences (you hurt others too).Nov 29 02:11
schestowitzWhat's most amazing is how *quickly* change came. Well change... not in the Obama sense.. change like a pie in the face.Nov 29 02:12
[H]omerYeah well, remember Black MondayNov 29 02:12
[H]omerOr was it FridayNov 29 02:12
schestowitzWhich one?Nov 29 02:12
[H]omerI forgetNov 29 02:12
schestowitzFirdayNov 29 02:12
schestowitzMy friend at the gym called last Monday Black MondayNov 29 02:13
[H]omerThere's been a fewNov 29 02:13
schestowitzHe heard they bring back veterans to the armyNov 29 02:13
schestowitzHe has informants there.Nov 29 02:13
schestowitzBut I don't follow this type of news closely, so maybe it was reported.Nov 29 02:13
[H]omerIt matters most to those who obsess over money the most, which is why I'm totally disinterested in the rise and fall of the stock marketNov 29 02:14
[H]omerI believe strongly in subsistence, nothing more - nothing lessNov 29 02:14
schestowitzWon't work for most people..Nov 29 02:15
schestowitzThey are not educated that way.Nov 29 02:15
[H]omerWorksForMe€®Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer:)Nov 29 02:15
[H]omerI don't exactly live in a cave, eitherNov 29 02:15
schestowitzPlaysForSure€® (RIP)Nov 29 02:15
[H]omerNotSoSure€®Nov 29 02:15
[H]omerLOLNov 29 02:15
[H]omerThey should really trademark thatNov 29 02:16
schestowitzNowForTorrent€®Nov 29 02:16
schestowitzTrademark... gimma a break! :-)Nov 29 02:16
schestowitzThat whole bullshit system that harbours total controlNov 29 02:16
schestowitzLet me find a message I got earlier...Nov 29 02:16
schestowitzWatch the comment from 'bsd guy': http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1...Nov 29 02:17
[H]omerThey've rebranded it "Vista Certified" now, or something. As if media is only "good" if it's controlled by the Vole's pet lemon OS..Nov 29 02:17
schestowitzOh noez. He haz my tail!!Nov 29 02:17
schestowitzOh, about Vista... will post this one to COLA in 10 minutes... http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/in...Nov 29 02:18
[H]omerVole should know not to keep lemons as pets, they tend to rot and go offNov 29 02:18
schestowitz"As someone who has been following Microsoft for over 25 years, I remain staggered by the completeness of the Vista fiasco. Microsoft's constant backtracking on the phasing out of Windows XP is perhaps the most evident proof of the fact that people do not want to be forced to “upgrade” to something that has been memorably described as DRM masquerading as an operating system."Nov 29 02:18
schestowitzMarketing as the answer... didn't work.Nov 29 02:18
[H]omergood analyisisNov 29 02:18
schestowitzThey tried Mojava.. Seinfeld... I'ma  PC...Nov 29 02:18
[H]omeranalysis evenNov 29 02:18
schestowitzNow they try vapourware (Vista 7)Nov 29 02:18
[H]omerDon't forget "People Power"Nov 29 02:19
schestowitzPeople-readyNov 29 02:19
[H]omerand "Show Me Your WOW"Nov 29 02:19
schestowitzMaybe that's what they needNov 29 02:19
schestowitzHa.Nov 29 02:19
schestowitzThat site is nukedNov 29 02:19
[H]omerso funnyNov 29 02:19
schestowitzBillieG asked for people's loveNov 29 02:19
[H]omernobody had a single "WOW". Not one. How sadNov 29 02:19
schestowitzThen, having exploited people for free ads, they dumped themNov 29 02:19
schestowitz.Like that chap from Microsoft evangleism called it, "one-night stand"Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz"Wow"Nov 29 02:20
schestowitzIt's... finally. Release.Nov 29 02:20
schestowitzWow.Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz*ReleasedNov 29 02:20
Omar87It's pretty disgusting how some people come out claiming that Mono is such a powerful tool for development, .NET is like the strongest web framework ever existed.. And that there are no other Frameworks or languages that can compete with it..Nov 29 02:20
schestowitzSomehow... after Jimmy A. and Swety put LH in the trashcan in 2005Nov 29 02:20
Omar87I personally believe .NET won't even stand a chance against Python..Nov 29 02:21
schestowitzOmar87: they could be shills.Nov 29 02:21
[H]omerHow about their "Games Division", with emphasis on the word "division" (in the divided sense). They keep assimilating and sacking the contractors. What /that/ all about?Nov 29 02:21
schestowitzOmar87: Google uses Python extensively.Nov 29 02:21
schestowitzAnd Google ain't doing so badly. ;-)Nov 29 02:21
schestowitzMono.NET = The Last Slog€®Nov 29 02:21
schestowitzNext comes Uncle Fester for the LastMeale€®Nov 29 02:22
[H]omerMono =Nov 29 02:22
schestowitzNoMo, thank youNov 29 02:22
[H]omer"Destroy the enemy from Within"Nov 29 02:22
schestowitzYesNov 29 02:22
schestowitzNovellNov 29 02:22
schestowitzde IcazaNov 29 02:22
schestowitz"Microsoft is a reasonable company"Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz"They treat me well"Nov 29 02:22
Omar87schestowitz: If .NET and Mono were even nearly as good as these morons claim it is, google would've been the first company to adopt it, right? ;)Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz"hanging out at Microsoft" (real blog title from Migi)Nov 29 02:23
[H]omerWhat's that phrase from the "Art of War" again?Nov 29 02:23
schestowitzTehre are manyNov 29 02:23
schestowitzMicrosoft cites themNov 29 02:23
[H]omerAbout getting your enemy to destroy themselvesNov 29 02:23
schestowitzTsu and alll... watch the Slog memo... it's Microsoft's bible.Nov 29 02:23
[H]omerThat's the Vole's planNov 29 02:23
schestowitzThat and Machiavelli perhapsNov 29 02:23
[H]omerPlant "seeds" like MonoNov 29 02:24
schestowitzThat's what the BN campaign is about.Nov 29 02:24
schestowitzIt's also mixed source.Nov 29 02:24
schestowitzIt comes via Novell.Nov 29 02:24
schestowitzWith women peddling it... like Gartner/IDG, others.Nov 29 02:24
Omar87schestowitz: But yeah, that's the main problem here, you can't tell which one of them is being paid by Microsoft.Nov 29 02:25
schestowitzOmar87: doesn't matter.Nov 29 02:25
[H]omerWhat would be in the "Top Ten Poisonware" listNov 29 02:25
schestowitzIf they are foolish enough to defend the monopolist, then it's all amiss.Nov 29 02:25
[H]omer1. NovellNov 29 02:25
[H]omer2. XandrosNov 29 02:25
Omar87YeahNov 29 02:25
schestowitzThey attack everything that contains substring mono like lucust.Nov 29 02:25
schestowitzlocustNov 29 02:25
[H]omer3. TurboLinuxNov 29 02:25
schestowitzWatch Alan write about the "Mono effect"Nov 29 02:25
schestowitzHe writes about it and band! Traffic is x10 the normal, mostly attacjs.Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer4. MonoNov 29 02:26
[H]omer5. MoonlightNov 29 02:26
schestowitzIn Ubuntu Brainstorm you can see them too.Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer6. UbuntuNov 29 02:26
schestowitzSuggest removing Mono, get modded down to -20Nov 29 02:26
schestowitzThey orchestrate this at least in the mailing listNov 29 02:26
[H]omer7. GnomeNov 29 02:26
Omar87schestowitz: And what freaks you out is that Mono isn't even nearly as good as they say it is. Just because they think .NET is powerful, which it isn't.Nov 29 02:27
schestowitz"Tah Mono Alarma!! Achtung Achtung!! Attack the messenger"Nov 29 02:27
schestowitz"They find ze plan..."Nov 29 02:27
Omar87YeahNov 29 02:27
*GoblinRFD has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Nov 29 02:27
schestowitzAnd then there's that 'humour' they have about conspiracyNov 29 02:27
[H]omer8. Adobe Flash (making Linux dependent on proprietary software)Nov 29 02:28
schestowitzIf you watch what they say... and profile... disguising this as humour.Nov 29 02:28
schestowitzSamsung, LG, Fuji Xerox...Nov 29 02:28
[H]omerWho was sellout-distro No4?Nov 29 02:29
[H]omerLinspireNov 29 02:29
[H]omer9. Linspire (defunct)Nov 29 02:29
[H]omerHmm. Got a good one for No10.Nov 29 02:30
[H]omer10, TivoNov 29 02:30
schestowitzTurbolinux was #4Nov 29 02:30
schestowitzAmong the desktop ones.Nov 29 02:30
schestowitzLinus *loves* tivoizationNov 29 02:31
[H]omerI knowNov 29 02:31
[H]omer:(Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz s/tivoization/market share/Nov 29 02:31
schestowitzAKA "Ubuntu bug #1"Nov 29 02:31
schestowitzFreedom? Na...Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz$$$$$$$$$$$$$$-)Nov 29 02:32
[H]omerEverybody "loves" Eric Raymond. 40% fewer people than ever "love" TorvaldsNov 29 02:32
Omar87schestowitz: I believe Ubuntu should be renamed.. They should call it Novellbuntu... ><Nov 29 02:32
schestowitzLinux loves fame; ESR loves guns :-)Nov 29 02:32
schestowitzOmar87: noNov 29 02:32
schestowitzUbuntu is OKNov 29 02:32
[H]omerOmar87, just call it "LeechBuntu€®"Nov 29 02:32
schestowitzThey need reform re: Novell poisonwareNov 29 02:33
Omar87LeechBuntu?Nov 29 02:33
schestowitzIf they follow Novell's footsteps, that's badNov 29 02:33
Omar87YeahNov 29 02:33
schestowitz[H]omer: check out my post from 30 minutes ago.Nov 29 02:33
schestowitzFedora Innovateth, Ubuntu TakethNov 29 02:33
schestowitzIt's based on the news.Nov 29 02:33
schestowitzMark Shuttleowtth: synchronise releasesNov 29 02:34
[H]omerOmar87, didn't you read the criticisms of Canonical for hardly contributing anything back to the community?Nov 29 02:34
schestowitzMark Shuttleowtth: we need more user-friendly.Nov 29 02:34
schestowitzMark Shuttleowtth: more marklet share, more like MacsNov 29 02:34
[H]omerMark Shuttleworth "We need Apple"Nov 29 02:34
schestowitzMark Shuttleowtth: thanks for that new X.org thing, Fedora. We'll have some of datNov 29 02:34
[H]omerMark Shuttleworth "Mac = Good, Linux = Meh"Nov 29 02:34
Omar87[H]omer: Now, i didn't..Nov 29 02:35
schestowitzI have an issue with his remarks.Nov 29 02:35
Omar87No*Nov 29 02:35
schestowitzHe fuels the Max trolls.Nov 29 02:35
schestowitzMacNov 29 02:35
[H]omerRoy, what's the link to that infamous rant against Ubuntu (low contributions)Nov 29 02:35
schestowitzMac trolls = Max(imum) trollsNov 29 02:35
schestowitzGo to Greg's blogNov 29 02:35
schestowitzBut it's kernel space.Nov 29 02:35
Omar87Is it true that Shuttleworth praises Mac?Nov 29 02:36
schestowitzShortly after Canonical had joined LFNov 29 02:36
schestowitzThat was like 4 years after Canonical was born.Nov 29 02:36
[H]omerOmar87, YesaNov 29 02:36
schestowitzAnd years after it had become most used distroNov 29 02:36
schestowitzOmar87: not praises, but sets it as target to defeatNov 29 02:36
schestowitzThe problem is that he bashes his 'own' 'work'Nov 29 02:36
Omar87schestowitz: ohNov 29 02:37
schestowitzI.e. all that good code he uses rather than market he bashesNov 29 02:37
Omar87schestowitz: How's that?Nov 29 02:37
schestowitzAs in, "we need to do better"Nov 29 02:37
schestowitzBut he mostly waits for input from other groupsNov 29 02:37
Omar87OhNov 29 02:37
schestowitzThat's fine as long as he's humble.Nov 29 02:37
schestowitzBut he's not helpful with that '"Mac" thingNov 29 02:37
schestowitzI don't even link to that Mac stuff of his... he's doing damageNov 29 02:38
[H]omer"Shuttleworth praises Microsoft innovation" http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/corporate/...Nov 29 02:38
schestowitzIt's a lousy marketing technique, thank goodness he's not a Ubuntu marketing guyNov 29 02:39
schestowitzI spoke to their marketing person..Gerry, wasn't it..?Nov 29 02:39
*schestowitz looksNov 29 02:39
[H]omerShuttleworth: "Apple is driving the innovation" http://derstandard.at/PDA/?id=3413801Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz"Shuttleworth praises Microsoft innovation and then asserts that the company shares common goals with Ubuntu. One is fighting against spurious process patents."Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz[H]omer: well, they put eye-catching headlines.Nov 29 02:40
schestowitzThat's bull of course.Nov 29 02:40
schestowitzGUIs are not innovations.Nov 29 02:40
schestowitzA lot of the real stuff came from F/OSS.Nov 29 02:41
schestowitzHe stigmatises F/OSS by making those statements... as though only companies and patent applications bring progressNov 29 02:41
Omar87schestowitz: I feel it's time for me to explore a new distro. :)Nov 29 02:41
[H]omer"GUIs are not innovations", especially when they are plagiarised from others (Windows 7 = KDE)Nov 29 02:42
schestowitzYesNov 29 02:42
[H]omerIn fact /all/ Windows is stolen from the MacNov 29 02:42
schestowitzDid you read the same sources?Nov 29 02:42
schestowitzYes, pretty much.Nov 29 02:42
[H]omerThink soNov 29 02:42
schestowitzApart from ClippyNov 29 02:42
[H]omerI bet they even assimilated thatNov 29 02:42
schestowitzClippt is the ashes of BobNov 29 02:43
schestowitzIt's pseudo inventionNov 29 02:43
schestowitzWay over the topNov 29 02:43
schestowitzLike Surface.Nov 29 02:43
schestowitzWho on earth sees value in a SIX-cam device the size of a table???Nov 29 02:43
[H]omerToday's challenge: Name a single Microsoft product that was not assimilated from another company. Just one.Nov 29 02:43
schestowitzOnly some rich spolied dude from Seattle would think so.Nov 29 02:43
schestowitzAs I stressed before because I found out by coincidence, they wanted to kill Surface.Nov 29 02:44
schestowitzBach was gonna kill the embryo of Surface.Nov 29 02:44
[H]omer"Surface" was invented by a japanese student at universityNov 29 02:44
schestowitzBuy Billie had a dreamNov 29 02:44
schestowitzHe wanted to show an INNOVA~1 before taking off for political subversion.Nov 29 02:44
[H]omerThe Vole has to pay him royalties for their overpriced "coffee table"Nov 29 02:44
schestowitzIt was invested by several research groups independently.Nov 29 02:45
schestowitzDoes it even serve coffee?Nov 29 02:45
[H]omererNov 29 02:45
schestowitzThey'll never get people to use the SDK and write apps for it.Nov 29 02:45
schestowitzThere isn't even a finished SDK yet!!!Nov 29 02:45
schestowitzAnd who on earth would buy this now?Nov 29 02:46
schestowitzAirlines are dying, hotels are empty... casinos??? Puh-leeze... there is a new casino in town... it's call Wall StreetNov 29 02:46
*anivar (n=anivar@117.192.99.161) has joined #boycottnovellNov 29 02:46
anivarschestowitz:   http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issuesNov 29 02:47
schestowitz"FSF India does not have a campaign against Novell. We share the concerns raised by the boycott Novell campaign. While Novell is making contribution to free software, many of Novell's actions put the free software community's and the users' freedom at risk."Nov 29 02:48
schestowitzPlaying safe then..Nov 29 02:48
[H]omer"Jeff Han" is the guy who invented multi-touch (i.e. "surface") ... just found the linkNov 29 02:48
schestowitzThere is also a group in BarcelonaNov 29 02:49
schestowitz2003 or 04, IIRCNov 29 02:49
schestowitzMaybe the Volish chaps got their INSPIR~1 there.Nov 29 02:49
schestowitz" FSF India condemns the attack on free software activists who were criticizing Novell in a nonviolent and legitimate way."Nov 29 02:50
Omar87[H]Omer: So Microsoft Surface is yet another stolen invention.. :)Nov 29 02:50
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 29 02:50
schestowitzanivar: be careful of Novellers trying to gain chair in FSF IndiaNov 29 02:50
schestowitzNeedless to say, the same goes for Microsoft spologists.Nov 29 02:50
anivarschestowitz:  heheNov 29 02:50
schestowitzThey ruin projects or umbrellas from the inside.Nov 29 02:51
schestowitzJust watch LF.Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz(Linux Foundation)Nov 29 02:51
[H]omerOmar87, yes - Microsoft's portfolio is literally a swag-bag of stolen goods.Nov 29 02:51
anivarschestowitz:  There is no novellers in FSFIndia as I  know.Nov 29 02:51
schestowitzNot goods.Nov 29 02:51
schestowitzInnocvations.Nov 29 02:51
schestowitzThey patent that drek.Nov 29 02:51
[H]omerOmar87, know what Microsoft's first ever product was?Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz*LOL*Nov 29 02:52
[H]omerOmar87, MS BASICNov 29 02:52
schestowitzKemenny, no?Nov 29 02:52
[H]omerOmar87, know where MS BASIC came from?Nov 29 02:52
schestowitzOr two guys from universities.Nov 29 02:52
Omar87BASIC? The programming language?Nov 29 02:52
schestowitzQualifications for Microsoft: skillful dumpster diving.Nov 29 02:52
[H]omerOmar87, the dumpsters at Harvard University (yes really)Nov 29 02:52
Omar87lol :)Nov 29 02:53
schestowitzThat where the white horses and the knights came fromNov 29 02:53
schestowitzTo "Bring PCs to the Masses"(R)Nov 29 02:53
[H]omerOmar87, yes the BASIC programming language (just one interpreter for it - the Vole did not invent BASIC- lol)Nov 29 02:53
Omar87[H]omer: I wonder what kind of exceptional invention is that.. :)Nov 29 02:55
[H]omerOmar87, then they stole DOS from Gary Kildall (CP/M)Nov 29 02:55
[H]omerBut only /after/ they lied to IBM about having something to sell themNov 29 02:55
Omar87[H]omer: They stole DOS?Nov 29 02:55
[H]omerYESNov 29 02:55
schestowitzPoor Gary...Nov 29 02:55
schestowitzThey left him screwed Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz"He [Bill Gates] is divisive. He is manipulative. He is a user. He has taken much from me and the industry." --Gary KildallNov 29 02:56
Omar87He died didn't he?Nov 29 02:56
schestowitzCharitable Gates... *some* guy...Nov 29 02:56
schestowitzOmar87: yesNov 29 02:56
schestowitzHe has many court documents left in his memory, among other things.Nov 29 02:56
schestowitzSome lawyer from a rich family stile his /science/ to become a political activistNov 29 02:57
[H]omerOmar87, know where Microsoft got Windows NT from?Nov 29 02:57
[H]omerHint: subtract one from each letter in "WNT"Nov 29 02:58
[H]omer=VMSNov 29 02:58
schestowitzThe BBC has already mended all these mistakesNov 29 02:58
schestowitzRevisionism circa June 2008Nov 29 02:58
Omar87[H]omer: Where?Nov 29 02:58
Omar87[H]omer: Where from?Nov 29 02:59
[H]omerThe Vole poached a heap of engineers from Digital (VMS) to "write" Windows NT - i.e. copy it line for lineNov 29 02:59
[H]omerDigital = DECNov 29 03:00
[H]omerOmar87, read this archived document by Mark Russinovich (formerly of SysInternals, now at Microsoft. The guy who famously discovered the Sony Rootkit): http://static.slated.org/nt/the-real-nt.htmlNov 29 03:03
[H]omerStolen code, every line of itNov 29 03:04
[H]omerOmar87, how about Windows OneCare?Nov 29 03:04
[H]omerThey assimilated that from RAV Antivirus (a Linux product)Nov 29 03:04
[H]omerMS Word was stolen from Xerox PARC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micr...Nov 29 03:09
[H]omerBasically everything they've ever released is someone else's cast-offs, or assimilated, or stolenNov 29 03:10
[H]omer"Synet had already trademarked Internet Explorer as a brand name when Microsoft came calling, offering 75 thousand dollars for rights to the name. When they refused Microsoft stole the name anyway, and SSynet went bankrupt fighting the software goliath\u2019s lawyers in court."Nov 29 03:14
[H]omerhttp://thepopulist.wordpress.com/2003/10/Nov 29 03:14
[H]omer"Spyglass, which licensed its browser to Microsoft in return for a percentage of each sale; Microsoft turned the browser into Internet Explorer and bundled it with Windows, giving it away to gain market share but effectively destroying any chance of Spyglass making money from the deal they had signed with Microsoft; Spyglass sued for deception and won a $8 million settlement" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criti...Nov 29 03:17
schestowitzgnNov 29 03:19
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anivarhttp://bunny.medhas.org/2008/11/28/attend-fos...Nov 29 03:52
schestowitzanivar: I'm off to bed now but I hope to see you here tomorrowNov 29 03:58
schestowitzI might blog what we spoke about, assuming it's OK.Nov 29 03:58
anivarschestowitz:  Ok gnNov 29 03:58
*kevin__ (n=kevin@adsl-71-132-205-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 29 04:03
kevin__helloNov 29 04:04
kevin__it sure is nice to see people buying macs instead of PCs :)Nov 29 04:04
kevin__my brother just purchased oneNov 29 04:05
kevin__i have a geforce 7600gs and it works fineNov 29 04:14
kevin__w/proprietary drivers of courseNov 29 04:15
kevin__woops wrong channelNov 29 04:15
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Omar87schestowitz: I'm starting to consider switching from Ubuntu to some other distro. where Mono is less incorporated with the system, like Gentoo, Debian.. etc..Nov 29 06:25
Omar87What do you think?Nov 29 06:25
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taconeschestowitz: have you heard ? linux kernel running on iphone.Nov 29 08:51
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*kevin__ (n=kevin@adsl-71-132-205-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has left #boycottnovell (""byebye everybody!"")Nov 29 10:09
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schestowitzClaiming undeserved credit: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diar...Nov 29 10:27
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Omar87schestowitz: Just read what the convicted monopolist says about his victim Gary Kildall:Nov 29 11:17
Omar87 Gary Kildall was one of the original pioneers of the PC revolution. He was a very creative computer scientist who did excellent work. Although we were competitors, I always had tremendous respect for his contributions to the PC industry. His untimely death was very unfortunate and he and his work will be missed.  The Computer Chronicles. "Special Edition: Gary Kildall." 1995Nov 29 11:17
Omar87That's Bill Gates if course.Nov 29 11:18
schestowitzRewriting historyNov 29 11:18
schestowitzGary has pages in his memoryNov 29 11:18
schestowitzWith the court document to show what Microsoft did.Nov 29 11:18
Omar87Crocodile tears.Nov 29 11:18
schestowitzRemember...Nov 29 11:18
schestowitzThere are reasons why Microsoft is disliked whereas IBM is not really..Nov 29 11:18
schestowitzIBM is like 5 times bigger.Nov 29 11:18
schestowitzIn terms of staff, IIRCNov 29 11:18
Omar87YeahNov 29 11:19
schestowitzMicrosoft, unlike IBM, can 'boast' a history of stepping on people (stomping even)... lots of the victims of Microsoft's crimes become F/OSS pushers.Nov 29 11:19
*NthDegree (n=NthDegre@unaffiliated/forcerain) has joined #boycottnovellNov 29 11:20
Omar87That's true.Nov 29 11:20
Omar87For another example, look what Netscape did after getting stepped on by microsoft.Nov 29 11:20
schestowitzI became like I am because of Microsoft smearsNov 29 11:21
schestowitzI used to just friendlily advocate "Linux"Nov 29 11:21
Omar87One of the facts that so many people don't know is that Firefox IS actually the old Netscape Navigator.Nov 29 11:22
NthDegreeI became anti-MS when XP was released.. my system kept telling me it couldn't read license-related data and preventing me from bootingNov 29 11:22
NthDegreeFirefox is based on the rendering engine behind netscapeNov 29 11:22
NthDegreebut Seamonkey is what you want if you want Netscape Navigator, Communicator etc.Nov 29 11:23
schestowitzOmar87: yes, Gecko... the engine.Nov 29 11:24
Omar87Gecko is for the layout, right?Nov 29 11:25
schestowitzYesNov 29 11:26
Omar87Is it open-source?Nov 29 11:27
NthDegreeFirefox is Free SoftwareNov 29 11:27
NthDegreeThey have an EULA which applies to artwork and official binaries, but otherwise it's FreeNov 29 11:27
schestowitzNot anymore. :-)Nov 29 11:28
schestowitzNow it's just a pageNov 29 11:28
schestowitzCautioning a little.Nov 29 11:28
Omar87Afaik, they removed the EULA.Nov 29 11:28
schestowitzWhich still means a restriction nonetheless.. but there's gnucat and iceweasel.Nov 29 11:28
schestowitzOmar87: removed from visibility as a GUI element..Nov 29 11:28
NthDegreeNah the EULA is still there but distros remove it via patchingNov 29 11:29
schestowitzThey made it kind of 'laid back'...Nov 29 11:29
NthDegreedownloading an official binary still forces you to agree to itNov 29 11:29
Omar87Oh, ok.Nov 29 11:29
*NthDegree has quit ("Leaving")Nov 29 12:08
schestowitzWTF? <a href="http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/20..." title="Novell and Open Source Communities">Nov 29 13:07
schestowitzhttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobi...Nov 29 13:07
schestowitz"Terrorism Survival Bundle"Nov 29 13:07
schestowitzAlan Greespan: it's 'my fault', I was greedy.. Greenspan - I was wrong about the economy. Sort of < http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/24/eco... >Nov 29 13:38
Omar87schestowitz: Why doesn't Micheal Gagne say anything about Mono being injected in Ubuntu?Nov 29 13:39
schestowitzOmar87: I think he talked about it weeks agoNov 29 13:40
Omar87schestowitz: OhNov 29 13:40
schestowitzIt's a known issue of "controversy"Nov 29 13:40
Omar87schestowitz: But, aren't we sort of oversizing the problem here?Nov 29 13:40
Omar87schestowitz: Is it really as much of a horrible crime as sounds?Nov 29 13:41
schestowitzLooking at the long term, I think not.Nov 29 13:41
schestowitzNovell already tells that it will get closer to Microsoft.Nov 29 13:41
schestowitzNovell owns Mono.Nov 29 13:41
Omar87Yeah, I know/Nov 29 13:41
schestowitzWe create a legal/technical dependency on MS right inside the main distros.Nov 29 13:42
schestowitzNovell LOVES it when people adopt Mono.Nov 29 13:42
schestowitzIt controls the pool this wayNov 29 13:42
Omar87Like some people say, if you don't like, you're not forced to use it.Nov 29 13:42
Omar87Controls the pool?Nov 29 13:42
schestowitzHere's the thing.Nov 29 13:42
schestowitzUbuntu should not have installed by default.Nov 29 13:43
Omar87schestowitz: What that, I totally agree.Nov 29 13:43
schestowitzPeople don't call for a ban on Mono (not at first anyway). The problem is that people are fed this poison by default.Nov 29 13:43
Omar87schestowitz: It's just plain pointless to have it installed by default.Nov 29 13:43
schestowitzAnother problem is that Canonical rewards people who choose .NET.Nov 29 13:43
Omar87schestowitz: It does?Nov 29 13:44
Omar87schestowitz: But why? What's the point?Nov 29 13:44
schestowitzI don't know.Nov 29 13:44
schestowitzHe's pressured.Nov 29 13:44
schestowitzYou saw the mono boosters in Brainstorm and the forums.Nov 29 13:45
schestowitzThere are lots of .NET fans who lobby for it, which puts people like Mark under pressure.Nov 29 13:45
schestowitzIt's the 'democracy' is being taken over from the inside.Nov 29 13:45
MinceRhow are you gentlemen !!Nov 29 13:45
*Omar87 says hi to MinceRNov 29 13:46
schestowitzHowdy, Sir.Nov 29 13:46
Omar87schestowitz: So, what Linux do you use?Nov 29 13:48
schestowitzMandriva these days... on my main machine anywayNov 29 13:50
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schestowitzGreed kills: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/11/28...Nov 29 15:43
schestowitzWater Wars  < http://technocrat.net/d/... >Nov 29 15:44
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schestowitzBlowing away what's left... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=... < Black Friday traffic takes down Sears.com >Nov 29 19:41
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schestowitzCool, thanks.Nov 29 20:04
*twitter (n=willhill@64.239.208.1) has joined #boycottnovellNov 29 20:06
_dougwhat is it ?Nov 29 20:07
twitterHmm, I must have missed something.Nov 29 20:07
twitteranything interesting happen in the last two days?Nov 29 20:07
twitterthanksNov 29 20:08
MinceRlol @ pedobearNov 29 20:08
twitterpedobear?  I must be in the wrong place.Nov 29 20:09
_dougthe Mumbai tourism board overdid it on the hospitality .. :)Nov 29 20:09
twitterI hope they treated you well _dougNov 29 20:09
MinceRschestowitz pasted an ascii art of pedobearNov 29 20:10
twitterOh, I only got half of it.  Does not sound like Roy.Nov 29 20:10
macabeWhat's a pedobear?Nov 29 20:11
twitterit's a bad joke about child molestation.Nov 29 20:11
MinceRhttp://www.encyclopediadramat...Nov 29 20:12
MinceR(probably nsfw)Nov 29 20:13
twitterIt's filthy enough that the wikipedia has no entry.Nov 29 20:13
MinceRnah, wp guys would say it has no "notability"Nov 29 20:14
MinceRnever mind that they don't really have a page limitNov 29 20:14
schestowitzIt was in DiggNov 29 20:14
_dougBut Wikipedia does have an entey on that long time nutter who MI5 and BBC newsreaders spy on ..Nov 29 20:14
_dougMost probably written by the screwy one himself ..Nov 29 20:15
*schestowitz didn't even know the story behind it until MinceR mentioned itNov 29 20:15
MinceR:)Nov 29 20:15
schestowitzI'm out in a moment.Nov 29 20:15
schestowitzDrinking all night. :DNov 29 20:15
twitterReally?Nov 29 20:16
twitterbe carefulNov 29 20:16
schestowitzI need to 'sober up' from that BN thing. Nov 29 20:16
schestowitztwitter: careful, why?Nov 29 20:16
schestowitzOutside the capus it's dangerous for sure.Nov 29 20:16
twitterso you don't fall down and break your crown.Nov 29 20:16
schestowitzThat's why RMS is in MITNov 29 20:16
schestowitzNo crownNov 29 20:17
schestowitzNo purse, either.Nov 29 20:17
twitterSo, who's baggy pantsed Roy here?Nov 29 20:17
schestowitzHuh? :-SNov 29 20:18
twitterpedobear, boozing, that does not sound like RoyNov 29 20:18
schestowitzWhat??Nov 29 20:18
schestowitzNo, I was replying to _doug Nov 29 20:18
twitter(02:22:36 PM) schestowitz: I need to 'sober up' from that BN thing.Nov 29 20:19
_dougI don't get the reference either, I just mentioned Ascii art ..Nov 29 20:19
schestowitztwitter: jokeNov 29 20:20
schestowitzIt's a friend's birthday todayNov 29 20:20
schestowitzWe'll maybe pull some birdsNov 29 20:20
schestowitz'twas in a page with ASCII art exampleNov 29 20:21
schestowitz*examplesNov 29 20:21
schestowitzMinceR knew what it was. I didn'tNov 29 20:21
schestowitzGotta go now. LatersNov 29 20:22
*twitter (n=willhill@64.239.208.1) has left #boycottnovellNov 29 20:29
_dougiPlayer is still freezing ..Nov 29 20:31
_dougIs this what I'm not paying the license fee for ?Nov 29 20:31
_doug"This content doesn't appear to be working. Try again later"Nov 29 20:37
_dougNever mind .. lets see what's on Youtube ..Nov 29 20:41
_doughttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ayACsykYOQ0&...Nov 29 20:41
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 22:49:50 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellNov 29 22:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Nov 29 22:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Nov 29 22:49
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelNov 29 22:49
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzNov 29 22:49
GoblinRFDHi Roy!Nov 29 22:54
kevin__hiNov 29 22:56
GoblinRFDhi! Sorry I was distractedNov 29 23:08
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