Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 14th, 2008


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz"The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including an attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with justice, or face civil war" < >Dec 14 00:00
schestowitzYour friend wrote a comment: 14 00:10
schestowitzMr "Jihad" responds. Will someone pound him on the head. Even community service won't undo the damage he caused to the likes of OS/2 engineersDec 14 00:28
PetoKrausgood night :)Dec 14 00:32
MinceRgnDec 14 01:09
schestowitz"Newsweek has reportedly lost between half a million to a million subscribers from its 2.6 million rate base and has announced layoffs. TIME layoffs may total 600. National Geographic, The Economist Group and Doubledown Media are all laying off staffers." 14 01:17
schestowitzGood. Dead Big Media.Dec 14 01:17
schestowitz"It's their own damned fault. Like the US automakers and the music industry, print media companies squandered most of their time and money during boom times clinging to the past rather than preparing for the future. And now they're left totally unprepared for the bust."Dec 14 01:18
schestowitzLessig: "As some of you remember, just over a year ago I reported that I was shifting my academic (and activist) work from free culture related issues to (what I called) "corruption."" Similar here... from promoting Free software I moved towards studying corruption against it.Dec 14 01:52
schestowitz"Take the money out of politics (and here's a specific proposal for doing that), and then come back to me to talk about the good, public regarding reasons why Congress is stepping in to "save the auto industry."" 14 01:53
schestowitz"Pay our buddies in industry... pay them now... they'll reward us for it some years down the line (reward to politicians only)."Dec 14 01:54
schestowitzLet's see how much more corruption will come out of FraudStreet in the year to come. It's another type of chain reaction. That's the type of nasty stuff that persuaded me to spend so much time studying and writing about it.Dec 14 01:59
Omar87schestowitz: What, in your opinion, is the best way to fight back against Micro/Novell?Dec 14 02:25
schestowitzSpreading the wordDec 14 02:27
Omar87No, I mean something more than that.Dec 14 04:05
Omar87Like, for example, if we could do something tangible.Dec 14 04:06
Omar87I don't think spreading the word alone would be helpful enough to stop the conspiracy.Dec 14 04:07
macabeDo you have a local Linux User Group? Getting together with others that use FOSS can a generate ideas.Dec 14 04:22
Omar87macabe: That's right.Dec 14 04:41
macabeAlso if there is none, maybe you can start one. Burning live CDs, showing people the simplicity and freedom that exists in GNU/Linux/FOSS.Dec 14 04:48
Omar87macabe: There is a Linux users group in Jordan. :)Dec 14 04:49
Omar87There's also an Open Source Group in my university.Dec 14 04:49
macabeOutstanding. There you can get together with others and share info on corporate lock-in, and so on.Dec 14 04:50
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-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our larger client servers just dropped off the network for a few minutes. It's back now and hopefully stable, sorry for the downtime and thanks for using freenode!Dec 14 08:48
PetoKrausmorningDec 14 09:10
schestowitzmorningDec 14 09:24
schestowitzReal piracy: 14 10:14
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schestowitzMicrosoft wants to 'addict' children to Microsoft monopolists and educators are too dumb to understand dumping tactics...?,microsoft-still-i...Dec 14 11:19
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anubisg1hey man.. you are really stupid with "boycott novell"Dec 14 12:02
anubisg1hahhaDec 14 12:02
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schestowitz*LOL* What utter BS... 14 15:55
PetoKrauswhat's that?Dec 14 16:03
PetoKrausit makes no senseDec 14 16:03
PetoKrausi see them talkingDec 14 16:05
PetoKrausbut i hear only "bla bla bla"Dec 14 16:05
schestowitzWhere? The video?Dec 14 16:06
PetoKrausyeahDec 14 16:06
PetoKrausi meanDec 14 16:06
PetoKrausit works like this: you've got national TVDec 14 16:07
PetoKrausit's controlled by whoever is at the powerDec 14 16:07
PetoKrausthen you have commercial/private TV'sDec 14 16:07
PetoKrausthey are responding to public demandDec 14 16:07
PetoKrausthat's it. That's how it works.Dec 14 16:07
schestowitzIt can be done betterDec 14 16:07
PetoKrauswell it can, but why should itDec 14 16:08
PetoKrausthis way you know what bias is whereDec 14 16:08
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schestowitzTrue. Anyway, bblDec 14 16:09
Omar87Hi all.Dec 14 16:47
PetoKraushelloDec 14 16:49
CasperinPetoKraus: here the state owns one of the tv stations, but it has no saying in what goes into the news. That is by far the best tv stationDec 14 16:58
PetoKrauswell, i don't believe that "it has no saying" partDec 14 16:59
PetoKrauswhere are you from?Dec 14 17:00
CasperinDenmarkDec 14 17:00
Casperinand it's trying.. of course.. but it's not really succeeding.Dec 14 17:00
PetoKrausthe same in SlovakiaDec 14 17:00
PetoKrausbut you know, just telling the reporters what not to put/ask is usually enough to get biasDec 14 17:01
Casperinmy point though, is that it is by a large margin the best news reporting here... imo of course. Others enjoy the pravda'ish news coming out of the other major channel (which is private)Dec 14 17:01
Casperinthey can't dictate that... they also can't block specific reporters, etcDec 14 17:02
PetoKrausyeah well :)Dec 14 17:02
PetoKrausgood for you i'd sayDec 14 17:02
Casperinhehe thanks... I don't really mean to criticize other ways of doing it. I don't know enough about it... it was just to offer an alternative view to what you saidDec 14 17:03
PetoKrauswell i have to agree, the national tv has usually the most "unbiased" news in slovakia as wellDec 14 17:04
PetoKrausbut it's mainly because the other two channels are focusing on making the news appealing to children and old people by putting "a puppy story" in every evening batchDec 14 17:05
CasperinexactlyDec 14 17:06
CasperinI'm actually listening to those news now... about SlovakiaDec 14 17:08
PetoKrausumm, are there any? :)Dec 14 17:08
CasperinhahaDec 14 17:08
PetoKrausi'm news-agnostic when in scotlandDec 14 17:08
Casperinthey say you have no banking problems with the global crisis.. but that the auto industry is hitDec 14 17:09
Casperinand then they try to analyze why.. but I wasn't really listeningDec 14 17:09
PetoKrausyeah, the economics is stable becauseDec 14 17:11
PetoKrauswe escaped the guillotine by secondsDec 14 17:11
PetoKrauswe're having € since januaryDec 14 17:11
PetoKrausthat's what I call - luckyDec 14 17:12
CasperinWe don't have it...Dec 14 17:12
Casperinneither Denmark nor Sweden (where I live currently) has it. But I don't know if it'd have been better or worse with itDec 14 17:12
PetoKrauswell, for us it's beneficialDec 14 17:12
PetoKrausthere's been fixed exchange rate since june or soDec 14 17:12
Casperinwhy?Dec 14 17:12
PetoKrauswhen the final exchange rate was announcedDec 14 17:13
PetoKrausif we didn't have that, we'd be in problems as hungary, or Czech republicDec 14 17:13
Casperinoh.. one thing I did hear from the analysis, was that probably one of the problems you had, was that your original currency had been evaluated too highDec 14 17:14
CasperinI seeDec 14 17:14
PetoKrausthough when the car industry leaves for further eastDec 14 17:14
PetoKrausthat's when shit hits the fan for us ;)Dec 14 17:14
Casperinand you didn't manage to keep them there?Dec 14 17:15
PetoKrauswell, they are not moving anywhere...Dec 14 17:15
Casperin... I guess I really wasn't listening to the radio lolDec 14 17:15
PetoKrausthey have been built in past 3-4 years soDec 14 17:15
CasperinI seeDec 14 17:15
PetoKrausnot much reasons to move away, yet.Dec 14 17:16
Casperintaxes are low I heard.. like 14% on everythingDec 14 17:16
PetoKrausumm, as far as i remember, in the summer it was 19%Dec 14 17:18
PetoKrausthough they might have lowered itDec 14 17:18
PetoKrausthough it's flat tax, mostlyDec 14 17:18
Casperinyeah, that's what they said.. I was listening that far :PDec 14 17:19
Casperinokay.. I'm going to make some food.. I heard it's healthy to eat and all that.. better try it outDec 14 17:20
PetoKraus:DDec 14 17:20
PetoKrausi'm wondering what'll happen to britainDec 14 17:20
PetoKraushehe, 25 banks bankrupted in 2008 in USADec 14 17:23
Casperinsmall steps towards a better world :PDec 14 17:39
PetoKrausyeahDec 14 17:41
Casperinan old (literally) friend told me that here banks were created initially by people throwing their savings together in order to cultivate them... no shareholders or anything like that. It almost made me like banks (the way they were, not how they are)Dec 14 17:43
PetoKrausyeah wellDec 14 17:44
Casperinshit floatsDec 14 17:47
PetoKrausthat's a myth, but let's say yes ;)Dec 14 17:47
PetoKrausoh GODDec 14 17:48
PetoKrauswhen you think they made sane history in FirefoxDec 14 17:48
PetoKrausthey didn't!Dec 14 17:49
PetoKrausi wanna search AND sort the results by date and pageDec 14 17:49
PetoKrausis it that hard?!?Dec 14 17:49
PetoKrausoh god!Dec 14 17:51
Casperinrhetorical question  I take it..Dec 14 17:51
Casperinnice link dump btw Roy :)Dec 14 17:51
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PetoKrausarch installation is honestly the most f*ed up thing there isDec 14 17:54
PetoKrausit's like a maze, if you manage, you're good to go ;)Dec 14 17:54
PetoKrausgentoo is better, you just follow the instructions... :)Dec 14 17:55
neighborleeodd I cant get to opensourcerer atm... I wonder if it got hacked o_0 ( or didn't pay his bill thi s month , or its just on my end shrug ?)Dec 14 17:55
PetoKraus"This makes it possible to run pacman as a cron job and leave the system to update and upgrade itself on a regular basis with minimal user intervention.Dec 14 17:56
PetoKraus"Dec 14 17:56
PetoKrausMORON!Dec 14 17:56
neighborleeI have installed gentoo before,,but honestly I never felt I got enough bang for my buckDec 14 17:56
neighborleeupdate I couild see,,upgrade might be slightly more dangerous ;)Dec 14 17:57
PetoKrausi mean, arch tends to break so much, that running updates as a cronjob is a BAD ideaDec 14 17:58
PetoKrausit's not that hard to fix though. it's usually just rebuilding given package againist the fresh lib from the repoDec 14 17:58
PetoKrausbut still!!!Dec 14 17:58
PetoKrausit's not debianDec 14 17:58
Casperinheard about this thing called ubuntu? :PDec 14 18:02
PetoKrausyes i didDec 14 18:03
PetoKrausi never used it for more than an hourDec 14 18:03
PetoKrausbut i can't say bad thing about itDec 14 18:03
PetoKrausbut arch is good, arch suits meDec 14 18:03
Casperinwhat is that based on?Dec 14 18:04
Casperinor is it from scratch?Dec 14 18:04
PetoKrausyeahDec 14 18:04
PetoKrausthe package manager is similar to portage and aptDec 14 18:04
PetoKrausflexibility of ebuilds, speed of apt (much better, actually)Dec 14 18:05
Casperinbut why run this over debian?Dec 14 18:06
PetoKrausyeah, that's a good questionDec 14 18:07
PetoKrausrolling-release modelDec 14 18:07
PetoKrauspackage management done almost perfectly, meaning, if two packages happen to be incompatibleDec 14 18:07
PetoKrauseg. something depending on older glibc, while you just updated to new oneDec 14 18:07
PetoKrausyou can just take provided PKGBUILD, and compile the package againist the new glibc using package manager's tools and install it using package manager's toolsDec 14 18:08
neighborleeits a shame there aren't at least one binary repo,,,who wants to have to compile everything just to use it,..or has that beeen added recently ?Dec 14 18:08
PetoKrausarch is binary-onlyDec 14 18:08
PetoKrauswith PKGBUILDs in arch build systemDec 14 18:09
CasperintacticsDec 14 18:09
neighborleesorry I meant gentooDec 14 18:09
PetoKrausah, neighborlee, there's sabayonDec 14 18:09
PetoKrausCasperin: other great thing is - 99% of packages are vanillaDec 14 18:09
PetoKrausmeaning, you can complain directly to upstream - no dodgy debian patchesDec 14 18:10
Casperinit's way above my head :) .. I'm just trying to familiarize myself with it, and wouldn't dream of switching from Debian for nowDec 14 18:10
PetoKrausAND it's optimized for i686/x86_64 and not for i386/i486Dec 14 18:10
Casperinoooh.. I like that :)Dec 14 18:10
PetoKrausit's nothing like gentoo's rice, thoughDec 14 18:11
Casperingentoo scares meDec 14 18:11
PetoKrauswell, gentoo is just pain in the assDec 14 18:13
PetoKrausbecause when the package managers in gentoo break something, it's usually VERY VERY bad newsDec 14 18:13
PetoKrausor no news at all....Dec 14 18:13
PetoKrauswhich is the worst caseDec 14 18:13
CasperinI eventually settled on debian with ion2, but now I'm working as a teacher, and a little "corruption" of the pupils won't harm.. so ubuntu + compiz it is, and I've had a LOT of "wow"s lately :)Dec 14 18:14
PetoKrausArch is pretty upfront about this - "upgrade to xorg 1.5 is gonna screw your computer" were basically the newsDec 14 18:14
CasperinhahaDec 14 18:14
PetoKraus+ distinctive #archlinux channelDec 14 18:14
PetoKrausfeels like 4chan sometimes....Dec 14 18:14
Casperingentoos package managers sound like something from MS now :PDec 14 18:14
CasperinhahDec 14 18:14
PetoKrausit's portage, i'd sayDec 14 18:14
PetoKrausportage is mess...  python & bash? are you crazy?!?Dec 14 18:15
macabePK: Have you heard anything bad about Apt-Build?Dec 14 18:15
PetoKrausmacabe: not really. I'm using debian lenny on my server. Debian is GREAT for machines you just need to have up and runningDec 14 18:15
PetoKrausand update like once a month or soDec 14 18:15
neighborleesounds to me like gentoo has community<>developer issuesDec 14 18:15
neighborleeor have those thing been worked outDec 14 18:16
neighborlee................thingsDec 14 18:16
neighborlee 14 18:16
PetoKrausneighborlee: i can't tell much, i was using it only 6 months, but it's wellDec 14 18:16
PetoKrauswell...Dec 14 18:16
PetoKraustoo bloated :DDec 14 18:16
PetoKrausin arch, there are only like 20 people managing the reposDec 14 18:16
PetoKrausall the rest is in AUR (which are user-provided PKGBUILDs, from which you can compile your stuff)Dec 14 18:17
PetoKrausgentoo has definitely moreDec 14 18:17
neighborleeand then there was problem ? where kde4 took forever to get into repos ?Dec 14 18:17
PetoKrausI got no idea.... i just feel that "wee is better"Dec 14 18:18
neighborleeI remember reading their bug database once, but I didnt get through all of was alongggggg discussion ;)Dec 14 18:18
PetoKrausin gentoo, or arch?Dec 14 18:18
neighborleegentooDec 14 18:18
neighborleeI respect gentoo for what it is,,I just always felt price for admission was a bit high ;)Dec 14 18:18
neighborleesabayon maybe,,,maybe illl take a peek somedayDec 14 18:19
neighborleeso you say it has binaries for many packages then...Dec 14 18:19
PetoKrausneighborlee: i'm gonna suggest you try arch sometimeDec 14 18:20
neighborleealready have  long agoDec 14 18:20
PetoKraus:) good thenDec 14 18:20
neighborleesame overall problem imnsho..admission too highDec 14 18:20
PetoKrausyou probably know why you are not using it.Dec 14 18:20
neighborleebut I like its simplicity overall...but still not fo rmelDec 14 18:20
neighborleefor me ^]Dec 14 18:20
PetoKrausyeah :)Dec 14 18:20
PetoKrausi know what you mean.Dec 14 18:21
PetoKrausanyway, Status QuoDec 14 18:21
neighborleeI tend to use only what average users would be using...Dec 14 18:21
PetoKraussee you :)Dec 14 18:21
neighborleeok cu ;)))Dec 14 18:21
neighborleethx for chatDec 14 18:21
schestowitz*LOL* "We were kind of stuck for a suitable reply to your generous present of that Hovesepian, back in 2006, until this surplus Beranger suddenly became available. We can guarantee you'll hear from it about 3 minutes after it first manages to get Vista running, then again, and again, and again......""Dec 14 18:51
schestowitzCasperin: people who write the news can always be lackeys helping a mate.Dec 14 18:52
schestowitzPetoKraus: good to hear about SK staying out of the Madoffism/FraudStreet/USDDec 14 18:54
Casperinyes of course. I was just looking at it on a general level. Generally what comes out of the state owned (but not controlled) media is of higher quality. That's all. I don't buy the "private is good, because then we know what bias they will have" ideaDec 14 18:56
Casperinbut brb :)Dec 14 18:56
schestowitzPetoKraus: re:banks going bankrupt, it'll be the same with airlines. A friend who lost his job there told me.Dec 14 18:56
CasperinSterling already went bankrupt, and at least in dk a lot of people are being fired in that business too... anyway brb, for realDec 14 18:57
schestowitzPetoKraus: Firefox history management is poor. Does it still use Mork files?Dec 14 18:57
schestowitzArch is for uber-ricers; Gentoo is just for ricers. LFS is for masochists.Dec 14 18:59
schestowitzjoin #archlinuxDec 14 19:01
schestowitzOops.Dec 14 19:01
schestowitzBusy house...Dec 14 19:01
schestowitzMuch more then 'mainstream' distrosDec 14 19:02
schestowitzPeople could place bets on who's gonna go out of biz next (which airline). I'd better use up my frequent flyer points soon...Dec 14 19:05
schestowitzNew Sun Java patent.. U.S. Patents Awarded to Inventors in New York (Dec. 13) < >Dec 14 19:11
schestowitzAbout Beranger, I was among those saying he'll return. He rants like this for ATTENTION. But he's harmful to FOSS. Vista schmista. You'll see. He'll have another major depression and change everything.Dec 14 19:15
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schestowitzIDG is not correcting erroneous report: 14 19:36
schestowitzTotally FALSE. FARCE.Dec 14 19:36
schestowitzMicrosoft unable to bet on big new projects? looks like it, for sure... 14 19:38
schestowitzThe Microsoft mouthpieces at CNET help Microsoft's sentimental blackmail..,2817,2336568,00.aspDec 14 19:52
schestowitzVapourware boosting from Kevin McLaughlin: Almost  looks like it's ghostwritten.Dec 14 19:52
schestowitzPanic mode at Microsoft... more zombie PCs...Dec 14 19:56
schestowitzIDG-based Microsoft chanting: Open Docx Files Even if You Don't Have Office 2007 < >Dec 14 20:21
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schestowitzEXCLUSIVE: Microsoft To Lay Off 1,500 In California; 200 In L.A. < >Dec 14 20:28
schestowitzAre they talking about Yahoo or MSFT?? Can anyone help herE?Dec 14 20:29
schestowitz (Are Netflix Layoffs Microsoft’s Fault?)Dec 14 20:29
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schestowitzGroklaw is on halt: 14 21:22
schestowitzWasn't the Examiner related to Microsoft somehow? 14 21:29
MinceRhow are you gentlemen !!Dec 14 21:30
schestowitzMicrosoft is throwing FUD at rivals again... 14 21:33
schestowitzFirefox FUD:  Follow the money... Selected by Microsoft's by Partner Group ("Cool Vendor 2008") ->> 14 21:40
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MinceRgnDec 14 23:44
schestowitzu2Dec 14 23:48
PetoKrausrightDec 14 23:48
PetoKrausStatus Quo was rubbishDec 14 23:49
PetoKrausthe support band was actually BETTER than the main actDec 14 23:49
schestowitzSpeaking of rubbish, I have a good post coming upDec 14 23:49
schestowitzAbout {Red]Dec 14 23:49

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