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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 15th, 2008

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schestowitzHere is my response: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/1...Dec 15 01:03
schestowitzSomeone mailed me this: "You might get a kick out of the following story: More Details on Diebold's Lost Ballots in CA < http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6741 > Apparently, Diebold/Premier has had some flaws in their tabulation software which they've known about for years and haven't fixed."Dec 15 01:04
schestowitz" It took a vote integrity group and some open source software they used to verify the vote count in one California country to uncover the problem.  It seems to be a black eye both for proprietary software and for the Help America Vote Act, which was supposed to have a mechanism for uncovering problems such as this."Dec 15 01:05
macabeAs long as the product sells, it's OK to OOPS after the fact. So they think.Dec 15 01:09
schestowitzThe cash  machines are equally bad.Dec 15 01:09
macabeWe have SMBs in Rochester that are little B.Gates clones. It's like they a different breed of humans.Dec 15 01:10
macabeDelphi, the GM parts maker is up to maybe a scandal or two.Dec 15 01:11
macabeEastman Kodak after ripping off their retirees is not matching 401ks.Dec 15 01:12
macabeIt used to be somewhat like Ohio here. A manufacturing center, but most jobs were outsourced andDec 15 01:14
macabemany are h-1b visa.Dec 15 01:14
twitterthe layoff article looks confused.  Here's Craig Mudie denying layoff on Nov. 21 http://www.thestreet.com/story/10449525/1/mi...Dec 15 01:15
schestowitzmacabe: people are taught to imitate 'idols' they are shownDec 15 01:15
twitterIt's funny he said that while the company was firing Razorfish employeesDec 15 01:15
schestowitzSome people copy OJ and geeks like to think that copying Gates is a Good Thing(TM)Dec 15 01:15
schestowitzIt's being 'sold' to the public by the press, whoever owns it.Dec 15 01:16
schestowitztwitter: it's revisionism, sortaDec 15 01:16
schestowitzhttp://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/layoffs/exclu..." (EXCLUSIVE: Microsoft To Lay Off 1,500 In California; 200 In L.A.)Dec 15 01:16
twitterIt's a bold face lie.Dec 15 01:17
schestowitzThis one is oddDec 15 01:17
schestowitzIt's about Yahoo for all I can  tellDec 15 01:17
twitterthe revisionism, not the confused Yahoo article is a lieDec 15 01:17
twitterThe denial itself suggests they lie to keep their recruiting strong.Dec 15 01:18
schestowitzThat can't be true. Microsoft never lies *rolls eyes*Dec 15 01:18
twitterI can't imagine M$'s recruiting is strong.Dec 15 01:18
schestowitzShould we write about this?Dec 15 01:18
schestowitzLet's show evidence of layoffs and then the MS exec denying it all.Dec 15 01:18
schestowitzGood comment there. The phrasing was indeed weird in the Official Denial.Dec 15 01:46
schestowitzHe lies without lying. :-)Dec 15 01:46
twitterAdded some useful information http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/04/...Dec 15 01:52
twittertoo bad people will have to scroll past G. Michaels troll juice to see it.Dec 15 01:52
twitterIt would be good if you could replace his bullshit with a link, "troll comment was posted, click here to read" for anyone who's interested to click.Dec 15 01:54
schestowitzI don't have software to facilitate this.Dec 15 01:56
twitterLayoff rumors have already hurt M$'s ability to hire:  http://www.city-data.com/forum/seattle-are...Dec 15 02:00
schestowitzThat's what they fearDec 15 02:00
schestowitzSelf-fulfilling prophecies as opposed to hypnosis they do with Gartner et alDec 15 02:00
twitterIt's right for people to worry about such things after the Vista failure.Dec 15 02:02
schestowitzPeople are searching MS layoffs..Dec 15 02:02
schestowitzSearch engine referrals so far this month (14 days) in BN: microsoft layoffs353Dec 15 02:02
schestowitzmicrosoft layoffs 2008:118Dec 15 02:03
schestowitzmicrosoft layoff:61Dec 15 02:03
schestowitzAnd so on...Dec 15 02:03
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PetoKrauswellDec 15 02:53
PetoKrausthat was fast... i had to install XP on our serverDec 15 02:53
PetoKrausi am going away for christmas and my mate wants to play gamesDec 15 02:53
dsmith_xp on a server?Dec 15 05:58
dsmith_horribleDec 15 05:58
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MinceRgeekingsDec 15 08:56
schestowitzMoin'Dec 15 08:57
PetoKrausyeahDec 15 09:42
schestowitz:-) http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/...Dec 15 11:02
schestowitzHere's a good bit: "Stallman has devoted the bulk of his life’s energies to political and software activism.[56] Professing to care little for material wealth, he explains that he has "always lived cheaply… like a student, basically. And [he] like[s] that, because it means that money is not telling [him] what to do."[57] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...Dec 15 11:19
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/155446/jo... "...unemployment at a 14-year high.."Dec 15 11:30
PetoKrausrightDec 15 11:39
PetoKraussee you from slovakiaDec 15 11:39
PetoKraus;)Dec 15 11:39
schestowitzHave a safe journey. No mustard on the plane. :-)Dec 15 11:41
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schestowitzOops... "Can KDE 4 compositing effects be slow on the avg(”Joe”) machine? (2) Yes, they can. Sometimes I think that the compositing stuff on Linux is a joke." http://planet.sabayonlinux...Dec 15 13:01
schestowitz"So, I am now a happy GNOME user. No memory leaks, speed, comfort, stability and integration. Thank you KDE4 for the total disaster." Sabayon might move to GNOME.Dec 15 13:02
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schestowitzI asked Beranger: "Will you do "strong opinions" and "rants" about Windows? It would be fun for those of us who never touch the thing (like me)."Dec 15 13:31
MinceRdid he answer?Dec 15 13:32
schestowitzNot yet? I put it in the comments.Dec 15 13:33
schestowitz*Not yet (not a question)Dec 15 13:33
schestowitzHe cause so much damage to GNU/Linux... now we can use him to our advantage when he 'learns' (to break) Winodws)Dec 15 13:34
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Omar87Hi allDec 15 13:37
schestowitzHi, Omar87 Dec 15 13:39
schestowitzOops. http://annoyedfolk.blogspot.com/2... "And the longer such bad information is given out the more it becomes ingrained that that bad information is correct.  And you wonder why I have a dislike for Ubuntu users even though my wife and eldest child uses it."Dec 15 13:49
schestowitzThis is better (http://icehot.wordpress.com/2008/12/... ), but not because of the article.Dec 15 13:54
MinceRthat perceived issue with ubuntu or its users has little to do with ubuntu itself -- that's what typical users are like :>Dec 15 14:04
schestowitzUbuntu used to be the underdogDec 15 14:05
schestowitz(when I first used it)Dec 15 14:05
schestowitzSTUPID MSBBC:  Hackers 'aid' Amazon logging scam < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/te... >. People will hopefully write to explain to them what hacker means.Dec 15 14:06
Omar87Is CISCO becoming a friend of open source?Dec 15 14:09
MinceRwell, to me ubuntu has always been "the debian with recent stable packages" and it still is :>Dec 15 14:11
schestowitzOmar87: not really. If it complies, then maybe...Dec 15 14:18
schestowitzI was 'sold' Ubuntu (4.10) with the promise of a good Debian.Dec 15 14:19
Omar87The problem is that System76 isn't available everywhere.Dec 15 14:25
Omar87..not yet at least.Dec 15 14:26
schestowitzIs there no shop in Jordan that sells O/S-free PCs?Dec 15 14:28
Omar87Excuse me?Dec 15 14:28
schestowitzSome shops sell a PC without an operating systemsDec 15 14:30
schestowitzThese systems tend to work well with Linux.Dec 15 14:30
Omar87Yeah, all of them do.Dec 15 14:30
schestowitzThey get tested in advance or components chosen for the purpose.Dec 15 14:30
Omar87I can ask them not to install anything. ;)Dec 15 14:30
schestowitzWill there be a discount?Dec 15 14:31
Omar87I'm not sure.Dec 15 14:31
schestowitzThe thing is, Microsoft has this bulk licence scamDec 15 14:31
schestowitzThis way they discourage choiceDec 15 14:31
schestowitzThey do the same thing in schools/universityDec 15 14:31
schestowitzIt's considered potentially illegal... Intel tried this too... Linpro in Norway successsfully fought against the practice.Dec 15 14:32
Omar87Because 99.9999999% of the Windows cd's used here in Jordan are not genuine.Dec 15 14:32
Omar87They're stolen.Dec 15 14:33
Omar87And believe it or not, even Computer Shops rarely use genuine Windows.Dec 15 14:33
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, Terribly sorry for that network burp -- appears one of our sponsors decided to reboot the server without warning, affected users in the region of 2,000. We apologise for that mishap and hope you have a nice day!Dec 15 14:34
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schestowitzMicrosoft tries changing this now. It needs money because revenues decline.Dec 15 14:36
Omar87Hehehe. :DDec 15 14:37
Omar87Microsoft is a joke man.Dec 15 14:37
Omar87But what really freaked me out is when my cousin told me this: "There are cases of people ... Read Morewho were able to achieve greatness without having to rely on a University (such as Bill Gates, Dell, and the guy who started Facebook, I forgot his name).."Dec 15 14:44
Omar87Ooops, here's the correction:Dec 15 14:45
Omar87There are cases of people who were able to achieve greatness without having to rely on a University (such as Bill Gates, Dell, and the guy who started Facebook, I forget his name)Dec 15 14:45
schestowitzThat's true.Dec 15 14:47
schestowitzUniversity's significance is symbolicDec 15 14:47
Omar87I know.Dec 15 14:47
schestowitzI think I learned a lot of valuable lessons, but the diplomas are physical evidence of knowledgeDec 15 14:47
Omar87It is.Dec 15 14:47
schestowitzTo some people, many book on many shelves symbolize powerDec 15 14:48
Omar87Exactly.Dec 15 14:48
schestowitzTo another person it's a big house, a  Ferrari (usually people with a small pecker), or pyramidsDec 15 14:48
Omar87That's right.Dec 15 14:48
Omar87But, the part "such as Bill Gates" makes you think as though Bill Gate is really as much of genius as people imagine him to be.Dec 15 14:50
schestowitzHe ruined other peopleDec 15 14:51
MinceRhe's a talented con man.Dec 15 14:51
schestowitzHad he finished law schools maybe he would have ethicsDec 15 14:51
MinceRit's sad that people idolize con men that much, though.Dec 15 14:52
Omar87That's true.Dec 15 14:52
schestowitzAnyway, cars are seen by some (they won't admit this) as an extension to bodyDec 15 14:52
schestowitzBooks are extensions or one's mindDec 15 14:52
schestowitzSo some people accompany themselves with shiny gadgets and toys like carsDec 15 14:52
schestowitzOther people surround themselves with literature. They show you, "LOOK! Look how much I've readDec 15 14:52
Omar87So other people enrich their minds with knowledge.Dec 15 14:53
Omar87Some*Dec 15 14:53
schestowitzThe mind is cr*p for most things.Dec 15 14:54
schestowitzIt's good at processing, not  registering informationDec 15 14:55
schestowitzSearch engines are better at the middle task, which is connecting thought and storage.Dec 15 14:55
Omar87Then when you read a book, where does all the knowledge you read go? To your heart?Dec 15 14:56
schestowitzA computer is an apparatus for managing knowledge (Internet rather). Cars moves people from place to place more effectively. Similar toots, different levels.Dec 15 14:56
schestowitzThe heart is just a loudy pump.Dec 15 14:56
schestowitz*lousy (and loud! :) )Dec 15 14:56
Omar87That's not true,Dec 15 14:56
MinceRit's a pretty good pump actuallyDec 15 14:57
MinceRfor instance, it can repair itselfDec 15 14:57
schestowitzWell, it repairs itself.Dec 15 14:57
schestowitzYesDec 15 14:57
schestowitzYou beat me to itDec 15 14:57
Omar87Heart is huge warehouse.Dec 15 14:57
MinceRand it remains operational for longer than most man-made pumpsDec 15 14:57
schestowitzEven with maintenance?Dec 15 14:57
Omar87Everything you've ever been through is stored inside your heart.Dec 15 14:58
schestowitzOmar87: no, I don't believe in that.Dec 15 14:58
schestowitzWe have more knowledge today then we had in the pastDec 15 14:59
schestowitzAnatomy studies and all...Dec 15 14:59
Omar87Anatomy has failed to explain so many things in the human body.Dec 15 15:03
Omar87For example, Anatomy failed miserably to determine what a soul is.Dec 15 15:04
MinceRpeople in general have failed miserably at _defining_ what a soul is.Dec 15 15:04
MinceRso the question couldn't even be asked of anatomy.Dec 15 15:04
schestowitzLHD to the rescue. :-pDec 15 15:06
schestowitz*LHCDec 15 15:06
Omar87MinceR: That's right.Dec 15 15:06
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twitterGood morningDec 15 15:33
twitterThe US now has a "national landlord"  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/bus...Dec 15 15:34
twitterThis is welcome relief but hugely impractical and difficult.Dec 15 15:34
twitterIt might make more sense to allow the renters to assume payments and gain ownership.Dec 15 15:35
twitterNYT sucks, there are many questions the article raises without answer.Dec 15 15:38
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twitterHere's a move that makes no sense, http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financial...Dec 15 15:39
twitterApple's performance and prospects are better than M$'sDec 15 15:41
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twitterApple is in much better shape than M$ thanks to their dominance in music players, cell phones which will continue to do well in a slowdown as will their expensive laptops.  I wonder how the company rates M$.Dec 15 15:42
twitterAs others pointed out, Apple has also returned more money for their size than M$.Dec 15 15:42
schestowitzWindows Mobile gets hammered today.Dec 15 15:44
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/...Dec 15 15:44
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...Dec 15 15:44
twitterGoldman Sacks thinks M$ is a "buy" http://www2.goldmansachs.com/research/disclosure/Cha...Dec 15 15:45
twitterWhat are those people smoking?Dec 15 15:46
schestowitzGoldman Gates?Dec 15 15:48
twitterMust be.  I'm laughing at the Windoze Moblie Quote:   Microsoft Live Labs Product Manager Alex Daley says  "Most phones out today don’t have accelerated graphics in them The iPhone does... I couldn’t just pick up a Blackberry or a Nokia off the shelf and build Seadragon for it without GPU support."Dec 15 15:49
twitterI wonder why they don't make apps for the Asus EEEPC then.  It's got 3d accel.Dec 15 15:49
schestowitzThe same GS that recommends Microsoft all the time, even when it was above $30?Dec 15 15:50
MinceRGoldman Sucks?Dec 15 15:51
twitterBoosters in October 2007, what a great call that was not.  http://seekingalpha.com/article/50243-go...Dec 15 15:52
twitterLord, they did it with conviction three months later http://www.247wallst.com/2008/01/goldm...Dec 15 15:55
twitterThe job is a "grind" that "can't be much fun anymore" http://seekingalpha.com/article/19900-goldman-s...Dec 15 15:57
twitterFinally, the firm has it's fair share of sell outs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman...Dec 15 15:57
twitterThis one is disgusting, http://www.reuters.com/article/gove...Dec 15 15:59
twitterWill someone please think of the rich people this Christmas?Dec 15 15:59
twittermarkets in free fall as everyone expected from the Madoff fraud, http://finance.google.com/financeDec 15 16:00
twitterM$ led the way but seems to have bounced a little http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFTDec 15 16:02
schestowitzRick Sherlund leaving... *LOL* I remember that.Dec 15 16:09
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/groups/search?ie=utf-8&a...Dec 15 16:10
schestowitzHe saw what was coming back in 2006Dec 15 16:11
schestowitzNovell marketing director before the Microsoft deal: "That's how Novell views its role. I don't know if you want to be the Microsoft of anything." http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/modules.php?op=modlo...Dec 15 16:12
schestowitzHow ironicDec 15 16:12
schestowitzMadoff is just the beginning.Dec 15 16:13
schestowitzMicrosoft at $18.xx again.Dec 15 16:14
twitteranother toxic asset, better dump it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9s...Dec 15 16:30
twitterhttp://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/MEl...Dec 15 16:30
schestowitzI have a friend who want to buy a houseDec 15 16:33
schestowitzHe told me yesterday that he can't trust it in the bank.Dec 15 16:33
schestowitzInterest rates here are very low too (just 1-2%)Dec 15 16:34
schestowitzSo he might buy another house. The thing is, the price of houses carries on falling, so why buy /NOW/? Be sure to read what Mark Shuttleworth wrote about the situation as well.Dec 15 16:34
twitterIf he's got cash, he should hold onto it.  Everyone is talking about deflation.  If we really get into a depression, cash will be king.Dec 15 16:39
schestowitzBanks can't secure it.Dec 15 16:48
schestowitzMy dad just phoned me about it.Dec 15 16:48
schestowitzI'm lucky to have saved. I've worked since I was a teenager, so I'm not in debt.Dec 15 16:49
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reikonSo what's this all about? I can has links or some such to read?Dec 15 16:53
reikonOh I see you have a website, noice... I shall read.Dec 15 16:55
schestowitzYes.Dec 15 16:56
schestowitzIt's interesting that people find out about it via IRCDec 15 16:56
reikonHonestly, I was googling for a VB.NET channel to get some annoying kid out of ##programming and I just stumbled upon a log.Dec 15 16:57
twitter"Banks can't secure it." Oh, yeah.  Even here in the US government only insures up to 100,000 per account and houses cost way more.  Now I understand the problem.Dec 15 16:59
schestowitzreikon: vb.net is not something that we advocate. ;-)Dec 15 17:00
twitterit will get people out of programming thoughDec 15 17:01
schestowitztwitter: I don't think my friend was even aware of his serious the critis isDec 15 17:01
schestowitzHere's the thing. A mutual friend of ours was discussed too. He didn't say this to me, but the company they did a contact with (highway engineering) could not pay!!Dec 15 17:02
twitterI'm not sure anyone is aware of how serious things are.Dec 15 17:02
schestowitzImagine doing lots of work thinking you can pay everyone, but the ripple effect suddenly hits you indirectly, because someone /ELSE/ can't pay you.Dec 15 17:02
schestowitzThis put good jobs at risk. They already do not renew contract with temps.Dec 15 17:03
schestowitzSpeaking of which, http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/si...Dec 15 17:03
schestowitzHe had a contract. Dec 15 17:03
schestowitzAs Lessig puts it, "Required Reading"... http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/sig...Dec 15 17:06
schestowitzOops. This one: http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdfDec 15 17:06
schestowitz< http://www.digitalmajority.org/... >Dec 15 17:08
reikonWell, it's no surprise Gnome is becoming Mono-dependent. Icaza created both projects and works for Novell.Dec 15 17:08
schestowitzYes, but they claim that he has been distanced from his child, GNOME.Dec 15 17:09
reikonGnome, maybe. But not Mono.Dec 15 17:12
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MooseSouls! I require them!Dec 15 17:13
reikonYou can find him on GIMPNet helping out in #monoDec 15 17:13
schestowitzTrue. Mono is another stepDec 15 17:13
schestowitzHey, Moose Dec 15 17:13
MooseHeya.Dec 15 17:13
schestowitzNovell needs Mono.Dec 15 17:13
MooseHarr, which mono? :PDec 15 17:14
schestowitzIf only people could separate their interests from the rest. Novell controls Mono, unlike, say... KDE. Microsoft controls Mono indirectly because of the way .NET evolves.Dec 15 17:14
schestowitzMoose: Monoel de IcazaDec 15 17:14
MooseO.oDec 15 17:14
reikonschestowitz: Is there an alternative for a similar software development platform?Dec 15 17:15
schestowitzREQUIRE novell.NET EEE.executeHijack();Dec 15 17:15
schestowitzreikon: mostly java.Dec 15 17:15
reikonschestowitz: Java doesn't have Qt or GTK bindings, does it?Dec 15 17:16
schestowitzThis assume you accept the hypothesis that OOP is the principal way to go.Dec 15 17:16
schestowitzreikon: it's complicated, but it does have that, IIRCDec 15 17:16
reikonschestowitz: I just like OOP.Dec 15 17:16
MooseOOP is amazing.Dec 15 17:16
schestowitzI remember something about Jambi and Gtk has something tooDec 15 17:16
reikonC is fine, but annoying to use for coding applications. C++ is hideous to me and I refuse to touch it.Dec 15 17:16
Moose^Dec 15 17:16
schestowitzc++ is aging.Dec 15 17:17
reikonObjective-C is fine as well, but it has virtually no support outside of Mac OS X.Dec 15 17:17
schestowitzBut it has a lot of legacy and it's good for educationDec 15 17:17
schestowitzKDE is c++-basedDec 15 17:17
MooseLet's all switch back to memorizing opcodes and writing software with hex editors.Dec 15 17:17
MinceRyou do that, i'll stick with C++ and Python.Dec 15 17:17
reikonD has a split with its standard libraries and its Qt and GTK bindings are _poor_. I tried to compile the examples and half of them crashed.Dec 15 17:18
schestowitzhttp://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/Dec 15 17:19
reikonWhat about GNU.NET?Dec 15 17:20
schestowitzhttp://www.gtk.org/language-bindings.htmlDec 15 17:20
schestowitzdotgnu?Dec 15 17:20
reikonYeah... that one <_<Dec 15 17:20
schestowitzI think it's treated more or less like Win.Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz*Wine.Dec 15 17:20
schestowitzNo-one seems to develop with it. Novell, OTOH, makes development tools for Mono and fosters development with Mono.Dec 15 17:21
reikonIndeed. MonoDevelop is one of the best IDEs I've ever used, to be honest.Dec 15 17:21
schestowitzRMS sort of warned that it's necessary to harnessed .NET to bring people over to GNU, but not to develop using it.Dec 15 17:21
reikonAhhDec 15 17:22
schestowitzMono develop is about making FOSS develops embrace the Beast.Dec 15 17:22
schestowitz*developersDec 15 17:22
reikonPretty much.Dec 15 17:22
schestowitzEmbrace as in E.E.E.Dec 15 17:22
reikonDoes Anjuta support Java-Gnome?Dec 15 17:25
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neighborleeschestowitz, lol, more adhominem attacks from mono supporters: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/No-Mono-by... : " In summary, it seems as though you just hate Mono and you want it removed for your own self-gratification. " :),,they just never learn.Dec 15 17:43
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 15 17:48
schestowitzSelf-gratification..Dec 15 17:48
schestowitz  In summary, it seems as though Miguel just loves Microsoft and he wants it included  for his own self-gratification."Dec 15 17:49
neighborleehehDec 15 17:50
schestowitzHe's at Microsoft now, y'know? (physically)Dec 15 17:52
twitterIck, monobation.Dec 15 17:52
neighborleeschestowitz, who is at Microsoft now ?Dec 15 17:53
schestowitzI think he's a stage now where he can get more work done in Redmond than he gets done with his colleague in Waltham (Novell)Dec 15 17:54
schestowitzSee his blog. He's at Microsoft again.Dec 15 17:54
neighborleeok thats just bizarroDec 15 17:55
neighborleeas if that surprises me, but still... ;)Dec 15 17:55
schestowitzOne issue is that they make it more rational for Microsoft to acquire SUSE and Novell one day.Dec 15 17:59
neighborleeI dont think there's anything rational about the redmond giant ,,err dwarf when t comes to morals ;)Dec 15 18:00
schestowitzhttp://www.webmink.net/2008/12/why-... "Even though we won this particular censorship skirmish, it bears repeating that the IWF signifies a very problematic approach to content control by governments, including, sadly, the United Kingdom."Dec 15 18:01
schestowitzSo... how's that Wiki at Ubuntu? ITF*kinMono?Dec 15 18:01
neighborleeI had no idea gnome was supposed to reevaluatte mono in each releaseDec 15 18:02
schestowitzReevaluate version: value=value+1;Dec 15 18:03
neighborleelolDec 15 18:03
schestowitzMono 2.0. Welcome!Dec 15 18:03
neighborlee I guess opensourcerer's website is down atm..odd timing but oh wellDec 15 18:04
neighborleehe uses joomla it seems..Dec 15 18:04
schestowitzFront pager on the way: http://digg.com/linux_unix/GNU_Linux...Dec 15 18:05
schestowitzneighborlee: he uses WordPress, like me (in 3 sites)Dec 15 18:05
neighborleeahDec 15 18:06
neighborleeI saw something about joomla when I tried to access his site..Dec 15 18:06
neighborleea error as inDec 15 18:06
neighborleeok well nvm then..ITS up now.Dec 15 18:07
neighborleewhewDec 15 18:07
schestowitzhttp://www.alternet.org/story/1127... "Everything began with the industrial revolution in 1750, which gave birth to the capitalist system. In two and a half centuries, the so called “developed” countries have consumed a large part of the fossil fuels created over five million centuries."Dec 15 18:07
neighborleemichael is on the attack again, though his rebuttle is Weak.Dec 15 18:07
schestowitzWhich one? Traubach (spelling wrong)?Dec 15 18:08
neighborleelet me try to findDec 15 18:08
twitterAnother Vista Failure Victim, RAM makers:  http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?...Dec 15 18:08
schestowitzTraunch maybe.Dec 15 18:08
neighborleeyes , him :)Dec 15 18:08
schestowitzWot? Vista was not far /enough?Dec 15 18:08
neighborleehttp://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/... < bottom of pageDec 15 18:09
schestowitz*fatDec 15 18:09
neighborleeLOLDec 15 18:09
schestowitzHe's arguing in USENET tooDec 15 18:09
neighborleeo_0-Dec 15 18:09
schestowitzToo bad... I have a cordial relationship with him..Dec 15 18:09
schestowitzHe likes mono..Dec 15 18:09
neighborleeI suspect he programs in itDec 15 18:09
neighborleelike joDec 15 18:09
neighborleeand no doubt alexH ?Dec 15 18:09
neighborleenot sure but it would seem logicalDec 15 18:09
neighborleehis argument is very one dimensionalDec 15 18:11
schestowitzI don't know if Alex uses Mono.Dec 15 18:11
schestowitzMichael does and so does JoDec 15 18:12
neighborleehe just doesn't get it...whether M$ has sued or will later isn't all of it,,its that we are in bed with them by utilizing any of their 'stuff'...their spin machine is trying to work but at its heart its just deceit and in time if we continue pushing uses will see it.Dec 15 18:12
Omar87So, can we say that Creative Commons (as the name implies) is a License for common innovations?Dec 15 18:12
schestowitzWe should work together with them to get answers. Mono remains a dangerous uncertainty because it's at Microsoft's mercy, as well as ITS USERSDec 15 18:12
schestowitzOmar87: yes, indeed.Dec 15 18:13
schestowitzPeer productionDec 15 18:13
Omar87For example, we can't put a newly invented cure under CC, because this sort of innovation is not common.Dec 15 18:13
Omar87But, when a doctor writes a book about cancer, he can license his book under CC, because authoring books is a common thing.Dec 15 18:15
Omar87Is that right?Dec 15 18:15
schestowitzThat sounds reasonable, but..Dec 15 18:15
schestowitzIt's like adopting the attitude of 'mixed source'Dec 15 18:15
schestowitzI don't agree with it because humanity can go further. To say that only generics (as in drugs) can be free is to basically just achieve the same as patents or copyrights (monopoly) with a time limit.Dec 15 18:16
schestowitzIt's like saying that alcohol is bad for you (it is), but little alcohol is good.Dec 15 18:17
Omar87Yeah, that's true.Dec 15 18:17
schestowitzIt's also like saying that a little bit of pain and selfishness is acceptable (why?)Dec 15 18:17
Omar87But what I'm trying to get to here is that CC is only for commons innovations.Dec 15 18:17
schestowitzThere is a similar discussion ( zoobab knows about this) about "high quality" software patent (what's high quality?)Dec 15 18:18
schestowitzAnother thing is RAND (what is reasonable?)Dec 15 18:18
Omar87but, uncommon innovations must have another sort of freedom to deal with it.Dec 15 18:18
neighborleeThere are a lot of things in life that should be free, but as a society we aren't ready to go there yet because those whom embrace capitalism do so as well it continues to embrace classes of people where none shoud exist ;)Dec 15 18:19
schestowitzYou can set things up such that all is commons-made.Dec 15 18:19
Omar87schestowitz: No, you can't.Dec 15 18:19
schestowitzFor instance, a government in a country that suffers from AIDS can pool together resources from a cure and not have it privatized.Dec 15 18:19
schestowitzPutting lives in the hands of corporations (pharmas) is risky because shareholder/stakeholder decide who lives and who dies.Dec 15 18:20
Omar87schestowitz: simply because for example, all people can right poetry, but not everyone can write a kernel.Dec 15 18:20
Omar87schestowitz: That's 100% true.Dec 15 18:20
schestowitzNot everyone can write poetry, either.Dec 15 18:21
schestowitzPoetry requires trhat a person learns  a language, just like another learns a /computer/ language.Dec 15 18:21
Omar87schestowitz: Oh yeah, that's correct. :0Dec 15 18:21
Omar87:)*Dec 15 18:21
schestowitzTo pharmas, death is money . $$$$$$$Dec 15 18:22
schestowitzThey need a problem in order to sell a solution. The greater the problem (or more widespread), the more profit they make.Dec 15 18:22
schestowitzA lot of industries use this as a business model. Let me find an exampel.Dec 15 18:22
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/...Dec 15 18:23
neighborleecapitalism hasn't learned yet to embrace what many of us have known for a very long time..that a rich man will have a much harder time getting into heaven, than a camel through the eye of a needle ;)...but just as most religions have it wrong in many regards  today , so does our system of  'money' atm  ;)...its so simple yet hard to understand for those that cant or wont embrace equality for everyone ;)Dec 15 18:24
neighborleegod never made the universe with a sign out in space saying 'ok , this is REALLY going to 'cost' you' ;))Dec 15 18:25
neighborleewhat god has made freely, let man charge for ;))hehDec 15 18:26
schestowitz:-)Dec 15 18:26
schestowitzGod makes the big money, eh?Dec 15 18:26
neighborleeanyway..Dec 15 18:26
schestowitzHow much id Earth worth?Dec 15 18:26
neighborleelolDec 15 18:26
schestowitz"I shall trade Earth for two camels and a needle," utterth teh GodsDec 15 18:27
neighborlee:)))Dec 15 18:27
schestowitzTell God about all that IP!!!Dec 15 18:27
neighborleeand make them super size please ! ;)Dec 15 18:27
schestowitzWe have patents. Don't sell. He doesn't value the linked list.Dec 15 18:27
Omar87schestowitz: Can we please stop talking about God?Dec 15 18:28
schestowitzOK, sorry.Dec 15 18:28
Omar87Thank you.Dec 15 18:28
neighborleeschestowitz, nothing to be sporry for dude ;)Dec 15 18:29
neighborleewithout our creator, we'd not have this IRC channel to talk on :)Dec 15 18:29
neighborleebut I digress..:)Dec 15 18:29
schestowitzThe idea of IP is bizarre.Dec 15 18:29
schestowitzMoney out of nothing.Dec 15 18:29
neighborleetotallyDec 15 18:29
schestowitzI hereby define auro to be valuable.Dec 15 18:29
schestowitz*auraDec 15 18:30
schestowitzThat who shall employ a man must be auro tax (AT)Dec 15 18:30
neighborlee:)Dec 15 18:30
schestowitzOr have it licensed at an annual cost of $49.99 per photon.Dec 15 18:30
neighborleelolDec 15 18:30
neighborleewhat about all  that dark matter and dark energy thats part of a unknown theory of the universe ..whats that worth ;)Dec 15 18:31
neighborleehaDec 15 18:31
schestowitzJust caught in the news a second ago: " Russian hopes to cash in on ;-)" < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/eu... >Dec 15 18:32
schestowitzYeah... Boris... that'll save the Russian economy.Dec 15 18:32
neighborlee:))Dec 15 18:32
*schestowitz thinkg Heisenberg rolls in his grave... thinking he could be a billionaire.Dec 15 18:32
Omar87Guys, did you hear about the Iraqi mediaman? :)Dec 15 18:32
schestowitzOmar87: no, what's the news?Dec 15 18:33
Omar87schestowitz: He hurled his pair of shoes at president bush in a press conference in Iraq.Dec 15 18:34
Omar87http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meas...Dec 15 18:34
schestowitzHaha.Dec 15 18:37
neighborleeOmar87, I sure didDec 15 18:37
neighborleeOmar87, dont know any details atmDec 15 18:37
schestowitzI can't wait until the game: http://www.egg-attack.com/Dec 15 18:37
schestowitzNeeds to be shoe-attack.comDec 15 18:37
neighborleewoah ;)(Dec 15 18:39
neighborleerofl yeahDec 15 18:39
schestowitzAh... I didn't make the high score :-)Dec 15 18:39
*Moose (n=Moose@unaffiliated/moose) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving and such")Dec 15 18:40
schestowitz'While pinned on the ground by security personnel, he screamed: "You killed the Iraqis!"' ... well, I guess George will get back to drinking again and forget about the incident.Dec 15 18:41
neighborleelolDec 15 18:41
schestowitzWow.Dec 15 18:41
schestowitzThe CNN says "The visit was Bush's fourth since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003." << "invasion"Dec 15 18:41
neighborleeOMG,,cnn showed this bizarro ( talk about weird) video with bush, laura and kids doing somet weird holiday celebrations..Dec 15 18:41
neighborleeafterwards 3 cnn staff commented how STUFFY it all looked,,' they n eeded acting lessons' ,,o_0Dec 15 18:42
neighborleeit really did look odd.Dec 15 18:42
neighborleeo_0Dec 15 18:42
neighborleeI mean the ony thing 'cute' about it was their cute dog ;)Dec 15 18:42
schestowitzGot a link for it?Dec 15 18:43
schestowitzLet me see...Dec 15 18:43
neighborleelacked obama 'rhythm' ;))Dec 15 18:43
neighborleehehDec 15 18:43
neighborleelet me try findDec 15 18:43
schestowitz236.com: CNN's Rick Sanchez is all over this bailout < http://uk.youtube.com/watch... >Dec 15 18:43
schestowitzLast call for Phoronix survey: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php...Dec 15 18:46
neighborleecant find it atm..it was called basically , red white and blue christmas o_0Dec 15 18:46
schestowitzI found this: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/9723...Dec 15 18:47
neighborleeyeah I saw the attack machine's ad hominem attacks on you on that subject...more of the expected same from them.Dec 15 18:47
neighborleethey just neve learnDec 15 18:47
schestowitzMe??Dec 15 18:48
neighborleehttp://www.cbsnews.com/video/wat... < close as I can come atmDec 15 18:49
neighborleeyes you ;)Dec 15 18:49
neighborleemoi ? ;)Dec 15 18:49
neighborleehttp://www.cbsnews.com/vide... < and of course this oneDec 15 18:50
neighborleemy precious precious CHIP ahahahahDec 15 18:51
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 15 18:56
schestowitzShow *ATTACK*?Dec 15 18:56
schestowitzSee how they use words?Dec 15 18:56
schestowitzIraq = liberation, not invasion.Dec 15 18:57
schestowitzShooting people=defense; Bush+show=attackDec 15 18:57
schestowitz*shoeDec 15 18:57
schestowitzThe thing is like a glove slap... it's symbolic and he deserved it.Dec 15 18:57
neighborleeI think that was the idea behind it no doubtDec 15 19:00
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 15 19:01
schestowitz"The shoes are both held as evidence"Dec 15 19:01
schestowitz*LMAO*Dec 15 19:01
schestowitzYour honour, I would like to show you the shoe. It has a very solid sole [jury rises /] [jury gasps /]Dec 15 19:03
schestowitzMS issues brown alert over unpatched IE 7 flaw < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >  Brown... like the Zune... among other things from MicrosoftDec 15 19:08
schestowitz SGI slashes 15 per cent of its workforce < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... > Dec 15 19:09
schestowitzA shame really... They do Linux.Dec 15 19:10
neighborleeyeah ;(Dec 15 19:11
schestowitzBrown alert... seems like an alert you sound when you realise Ubuntu is a threatDec 15 19:11
twitterVista was fat enough, but no one bought it because it did not work.Dec 15 19:12
twitterhe he, slap in the face.  the symbolic start of a duel.  Mr. Bush gets the first shot but would do better to let his harmless victim go.Dec 15 19:18
schestowitzI need a migration plan for my data... Palm's been doing nothing for years.. Is Nova Palm's Prince Charming? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155485... >Dec 15 19:19
schestowitzI don't like this... http://www.pcworld.com/article/155503/... (Microsoft Data-center Leader Joins Rival Amazon Web Services). How long will they be "rivals" for.?Dec 15 19:20
schestowitzNOVL is down 6% todayDec 15 19:22
schestowitzThey have not been so worthless for ages... http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=N... Almost a new all-time (ish) low.Dec 15 19:24
schestowitzLowest since the EIGHTIES.Dec 15 19:24
schestowitzOops. Actually it was worse in 2003-4Dec 15 19:25
schestowitzWe have just been cited by IDG (an article about Microsoft): http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/...Dec 15 19:35
schestowitz"Microsoft, however, has generated a considerable degree of disdain in open source and free software communities as expressed on sites such as "Boycott Novell." (A "Boycott Novell" representative had harsh words for a two-year-old Novell-Microsoft partnership in a recent InfoWorld retrospective on the arrangement.)"Dec 15 19:35
neighborlee:)Dec 15 19:49
schestowitz*LOL* http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XJMBLznh...Dec 15 19:50
neighborleerecent accommodations for open source and its willingness to look at innovation from all sources. < ROFL,, who are they kidding..oh yeah THEMSELVES ;))Dec 15 19:52
schestowitzThey might actually believe in their lies.Dec 15 19:55
schestowitz"Well, I agree about Mono: if anyone feels he would *need* Mono, then it should go for the real && complete thing, which is .NET under Windows. Normally, people use Linux for escaping Microsoft in the Unix way, so they shouldn't "need" Mono. Mono is *not* "the Unix way" -- it's like Mother Teresa smoking pot."Dec 15 19:59
schestowitzFrom http://beranger.org/index.php?page...Dec 15 19:59
neighborleeguy must have been major bored ;)Dec 15 20:00
schestowitzIf true, this is not good: http://techdirt.com/articles/20081214...Dec 15 20:02
neighborleeThe CDN thing sounds to me to be very iffy on it not violating neutralityDec 15 20:07
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxinsider.co... " drawing more than 1,500 comments by Friday -- and on Digg on Thursday, where it garnered more than 5,500 Diggs and almost 800 comments in less than 24 hours. So extreme were the reactions to the letter, in fact, that some doubted it was genuine."Dec 15 20:08
schestowitzHey Karen, welcome to (hell control W) the community. <  http://cookingwithlinux.com/content/hey-karne-... >Dec 15 20:09
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com.au/article/270896/p... < In Pictures: Aussies rally against against sanitised Internet Dec 15 20:17
twitterData migration.  Whatever I migrate to must be free and work with kontact.Dec 15 20:17
twitterRight now, I have zero need for a PDA.  My handspring does duty for grocery lists.Dec 15 20:18
twitterMy old Zaurus ill do the trick using an ancient copy of OpenZaurus if I get a job soon.  I'm not willing to share my contacts and other personal information with a rooted cell phone, but I might consider OpenMoko.Dec 15 20:19
schestowitzhttp://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/12/fs...Dec 15 20:19
schestowitzSSL Certificate for *.opensuse.org Has Expired < http://news.opensuse.org/2008/12/13/s... >Dec 15 20:21
twitterCool.  I know the software for good mobile phones is there.Dec 15 20:21
twitterGPE had X11 and most of debian back in 2004.Dec 15 20:22
schestowitzIt will do Android tooDec 15 20:22
twitterIs Android free?Dec 15 20:22
schestowitzI'm realising that IDG gets very little traffic.Dec 15 20:23
schestowitzOld media *is* dyingDec 15 20:23
twitterKDE sync is not complicated by multiple sources.  I've got many calendars and address books now and don't want to sync with all of them.  I do want the sync software to keep track of what contact and event goes in what address book.Dec 15 20:24
schestowitzThat magazine that cited us no longer prints magazines. Based on referrals, not many people red it, either. Slashdot is  massively more massive ( :-) ) than many of these 'tech' trade journals combined.Dec 15 20:24
twitterThat's interesting.Dec 15 20:25
reikonHow do you guys feel about Vala?Dec 15 20:25
schestowitzGroklaw hibernated, but I think it's just being organised. It hasn't missed any major news.Dec 15 20:25
twitterOld media is dead.Dec 15 20:25
schestowitzYes, Vala... the C#-like P/L without the Mono and Novell.Dec 15 20:25
schestowitzLinux.com did an article about Vala last week.Dec 15 20:25
schestowitzNot dead, dying.Dec 15 20:26
schestowitzThey can't pay writers for much longerDec 15 20:26
reikonVala is dying? Or Linux.com?Dec 15 20:26
schestowitzElgan and Schroder wrote articles about it around Friday. They're axing like nobody's business.Dec 15 20:26
schestowitzEven LinuxToday seems to be shrinking.Dec 15 20:26
schestowitzreikon: actually both.Dec 15 20:26
schestowitzOh, oopsDec 15 20:27
schestowitzI meant..Dec 15 20:27
schestowitzBut I was talking about old media.. Linux.com includedDec 15 20:27
schestowitzNot Vala.Dec 15 20:27
twitterrikon, I like C.Dec 15 20:27
schestowitzVala seems to be rising because it was hardly known a while agoDec 15 20:27
schestowitzhttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/M... "Microsoft has appointed a new point man to put a face on its interaction with the open source community. That man, Robert Duffner, takes on a big task as senior director of Platform and Open Source Software strategy at Microsoft. His IBM and BEA roots will help him place his mark on the Microsoft strategy, but the core messagDec 15 20:30
schestowitze remains the same."Dec 15 20:30
schestowitzMicrosoft is now approaching journalists with this BSDec 15 20:30
schestowitzRobert Duffner... turncoat... self-appointed piece[sic] makerDec 15 20:31
reikontwitter: I like C too, but there's some things that are just easier to do in other languages.Dec 15 20:31
reikonLike applications programming.Dec 15 20:31
schestowitz"Google has made Chrome the default browser in the English version of Google Pack, the search company's application bundle, replacing Firefox." < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/internet... >Dec 15 20:45
schestowitzSo they gave them funding for the search bar, but no more boost.... shortly after StarOffice.....Dec 15 20:45
twitterOn the death of old media.  Tabloids will survive but people who want to know things will go somewhere else.  Yes, most broadcast and print is no better than tabloids, and in the US they carry a warning that essentially states, "for entertainment purposes only."Dec 15 20:54
schestowitzHeh. http://www.internetling.com/2008/12/14/ene...Dec 15 20:59
schestowitzLinux is NOT UNIX :-) http://ubuntu-snippets.blogspot.com/2008/12/epide...Dec 15 21:02
schestowitz"Ever since the terrifying terror strike in Mumbai on November 26, many of us have strained hard to find some voices advocating peace. The overwhelming chant is one demanding war and revenge. It is reminiscent of other times, in other places. In the United States post 9/11. And an echo of that is heard in the India of today." http://www.hindu.com/mag/2008/12/14/sto...Dec 15 21:06
schestowitzRMS links to it  and also this: http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf...Dec 15 21:08
schestowitzCory on selling people their rights back to them: http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txtDec 15 21:44
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MinceRgnDec 15 23:37
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*kentma1 (n=user@host86-154-250-236.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 15 23:57

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