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| NeonFloss | stealinh other peoples articles? | Jan 02 00:05 |
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| schestowitz | Who? | Jan 02 00:06 |
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| NeonFloss | nvm | Jan 02 00:07 |
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| schestowitz | What's that? | Jan 02 00:07 |
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| NeonFloss | http://www.blogpirate.org/2008/12/31/leaked-windo... | Jan 02 00:07 |
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| NeonFloss | read comments | Jan 02 00:07 |
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| *schestowitz looks | Jan 02 00:07 |
| NeonFloss | is that meant to be copy word for word or just the idea? | Jan 02 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not following. | Jan 02 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | This is a trackback from us from IRC (yesterday) | Jan 02 00:08 |
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| NeonFloss | sorry bout that | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | I am really sorry | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | im not so good with english | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | What do you mean by "stealking"? | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | *stealing, oops | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | lol | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | im sorry | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | wrong channel heh | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | OK, np | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | Was that post a stolen one? | Jan 02 00:09 |
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| NeonFloss | thats wack | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | I saw some other posts about Vista7 holes. | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| NeonFloss | I read the bottom comment and accidently assoiciated with top one | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| NeonFloss | I deeply apologize | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | No, one of our reader/contribs ( trmanco ) linked to it here. | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | No problem. :-) | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | What is the original? | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | Let me know so that I can change the linkl | Jan 02 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | *links | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | I dont follow | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | I linked to it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/... | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | thats fine | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | I dont know | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | im confused | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | no problem | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | pretend I never came here | Jan 02 00:11 |
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| NeonFloss | heh heh | Jan 02 00:12 |
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| NeonFloss | I mixed up that comment with another one | Jan 02 00:12 |
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| schestowitz | Via Tor.. | Jan 02 00:14 |
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| Axz | lol schestowitz ignore him | Jan 02 00:19 |
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| Axz | nice job on the article mate | Jan 02 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | Thankls. | Jan 02 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | I'm watching this interesting talk. The US hopes to make India a "client state" of the US to keep it away from the rising Asian revolution. Same as some other countries.. | Jan 02 00:40 |
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| MinceR | gn | Jan 02 01:01 |
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| tessier_ | Client state? | Jan 02 01:07 |
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| tessier_ | What rising Asian revolution? | Jan 02 01:07 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: Asia (mostly China) is likely to inherit wealth and become a superpower bigger than the US | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| tessier | Possibly. I would think they would have to really clean up their act to have real success. | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| tessier | The average person in China is still dirt poor making $2/day. | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| tessier | They have a very long way to go. | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not defending it. | Jan 02 07:38 |
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| tessier | But yes, they could someday exceed the US. | Jan 02 07:39 |
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| schestowitz | Romans... British... American... China.. | Jan 02 07:39 |
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| tessier | It would be quite sad if the people of the next superpower did not have freedom. | Jan 02 07:39 |
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| schestowitz | They never did under the US either, but it was better | Jan 02 07:43 |
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| Omar87 | Hi everyone. | Jan 02 08:38 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: Do you suggest I go to china when I'm done with college? | Jan 02 08:39 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: Since, ya know, china is becoming one of the greatest nations in terms of technology and stufF? | Jan 02 08:39 |
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| Omar87 | stuff* | Jan 02 08:39 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Jan 02 08:51 |
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| schestowitz | China does to humans what a commodity/generics do to drugs. | Jan 02 08:52 |
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| schestowitz | They devalue human labour or thought | Jan 02 08:52 |
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| tessier | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-paci... | Jan 02 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks, interesting. | Jan 02 09:10 |
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| schestowitz | Foxxcon just fired 100,000 | Jan 02 09:10 |
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| schestowitz | MadTux Closes Its Doors < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/madtux-... > "We regret to inform you that economic conditions have forced us to close our doors after eight years in business." | Jan 02 09:47 |
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| tessier | http://www.target.com/gp/search/183-66... | Jan 02 10:19 |
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| tessier | Neato. Target sells pre-installed Linux computers | Jan 02 10:19 |
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| tessier | Wow, and the Target store just up the road from me has them in stock. Cool. | Jan 02 10:20 |
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| tessier | Target has a nice website. | Jan 02 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | I think they have sold these for a while. | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | Yes, they have. Months at least. | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | I bought mine over a year ago although that was from newegg. | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | Caitlyn Martin (author of that piece) negates some FUD in the comments. | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | @Linux Home User: The 4:1 return rate came from a statement by an MSI exec before they had sold even one netbook with Linux. Meanwhile Asus claims that there is NO higher return rate on Linux netbooks and they are the number one vendor. The 9:1 sales figure you got from our dear friends (cough) at IT Wire actually only applies to the Acer Aspire One and Acer only offers one model at the low end with Linux and makes no effort to get that | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | model into stores. According to Asus CEO Jerry Chen their figure is 6:4, which means 40% are Linux. The overall industry figure is 7:3. So, your wonderful piece of FUD is totally inaccurate. The Linux desktop is doing just fine in the marketplace, thankyouverymuch. | Jan 02 10:22 |
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| tessier | Nicely done. | Jan 02 10:23 |
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| schestowitz | The anti-Linux crowd links to the ITWire stuff | Jan 02 10:23 |
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| schestowitz | ASUS is "closely tied up with Microsoft," it says | Jan 02 10:24 |
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| schestowitz | But ITWire has its share of troll writers either way | Jan 02 10:24 |
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| *schestowitz does some reading on back doors... also Palladium... Trusted Computing... Intel's back door in hardware are suspected by Shamir who is a guru in this area; never mind back doors in encryption algos (that would be Schneier). These issues will come up more in the future when Linux gets snooped on too. | Jan 02 10:24 |
| schestowitz | Mainstream media should cover this stuff too | Jan 02 10:24 |
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| schestowitz | I'm also researching some Novell dark secrets (post will come soon). It's a very interesting area to explore, namely the convergence of Free software and closed embedded components. The OpenBSD folks and the FSF still argue over things like firmware (does it quality of a blob?). You can achieve so much that way and the pursuit that follows FOSS is one that pertains to circuits. CAD files and 'open-source' thingies like Chumby aren' | Jan 02 10:25 |
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| schestowitz | t enough. | Jan 02 10:25 |
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| Axz | Microsoft is losing his power in software when it comes to costumers security | Jan 02 10:29 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. "Our products just aren't engineered for security." http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml... | Jan 02 10:30 |
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| Axz | Hehe yeah nice find | Jan 02 10:32 |
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| Axz | Also trust in usage of Windows is critical, every time i speak to random people on IRc they ask me whats best linux distro to install | Jan 02 10:33 |
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| tessier | "Our products just aren't engineered for security." - Brian Valentine at the | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| tessier | Windows .Net Server developer conference Sep 2002. | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| *tessier adds it to his quotes file | Jan 02 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Good | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | I was only shown this 2 months ago, maybe less | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| tessier | hmm...that reminds me, I need to move all of my quote database to my new website. | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | Which is important | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | Mind the date | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | Later on, Microsoft brought up a different pitch | Jan 02 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | "All operating systems are not secure" | Jan 02 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | That was the new 'party line' | Jan 02 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | But it's a fake | Jan 02 10:36 |
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| Axz | hehe but as i make article about last piracy takedown on the Microsoft's statement says below: Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq “MSFT”) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential. | Jan 02 10:36 |
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| Axz | i mean they really need to delete this... because its trash | Jan 02 10:37 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find somehting | Jan 02 10:38 |
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| tessier | I wish there was some conclusive way to prove that it is the architecture and design methodology of Linux and not just that "nobody uses Linux so the crackers don't care" which explains why Linux has fewer problems. | Jan 02 10:38 |
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| Axz | first they are not anymore worldwide leading few other company's are, second, solution to what? since Xp they dind make any solution in software only help exploit develope faster | Jan 02 10:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.mixx.com/users/cyberphoenix "Founded in 1975, Microsoft is the worldwide leader in bribery, extortion, blackmail and customer abuse." | Jan 02 10:38 |
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| Axz | lol | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| Axz | nice one | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| tessier | "Founded in 1975 Microsoft is the worldwide leader in fucking you out of your money." | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: tell people about how many Linux servers exist on the Web | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | Linux is VERY widespread. | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| tessier | They don't believe it because they can't see it. | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| Axz | yeah | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | desktop != computer | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| tessier | Desktops are all the average person knows. | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | >“Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux...” --Steve Ballmer (September 2008) | Jan 02 10:39 |
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| Axz | I'm proud linux users since i had my first PC thanks to my dad | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| tessier | And how many servers are there out there? | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| tessier | He must know because he knows that 60% of them run Linux, right? | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know. | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft has intelligence. | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | They also collect a list of ALL applications installed on ALL Windows boxes | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | These are sent periodically and they are allowed to do this (watch the EULA) | Jan 02 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | Vista takes this intrusion several steps further. | Jan 02 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | It's a rather diabolic version | Jan 02 10:41 |
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| Axz | Here is very simple statics for that http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/r... | Jan 02 10:41 |
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| Axz | is it me or there is lots of Linux/Unix around there :p | Jan 02 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, oiaohm1 | Jan 02 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | Axz: especially embedded | Jan 02 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | In the embedded space, Linux is schooling Microsoft, whose dumping of cheap Windows hardly saved it. | Jan 02 10:48 |
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| schestowitz | The press hardly covers this very important fact; there are tens of billions devices made; many run Linux. | Jan 02 10:49 |
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| oiaohm1 | Problem for Microsoft there is a bottom value then can sell for before they lose money | Jan 02 10:49 |
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| oiaohm1 | Patents and paying Novell. | Jan 02 10:50 |
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| oiaohm1 | Linux only controls about 40 percent of the embedded market. | Jan 02 10:53 |
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| oiaohm1 | Major limitation is lack of rtos status. | Jan 02 10:53 |
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| tessier | RTOS isn't at all important for most of what most people consider the "embedded" market these days. | Jan 02 10:54 |
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| tessier | The definition of embedded has changed, for better or worse. | Jan 02 10:54 |
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| tessier | It is better for Linux this way. The things that require RTOS do not have much customer visibility anyway. | Jan 02 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm1: yes, about 40% | Jan 02 10:54 |
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| tessier | But cell phones and GPS navigation devices and home cablemodem routers and DVR's etc are in peoples faces all the time. | Jan 02 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | RTOS is improving too | Jan 02 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | They got this capability improves in 2.6.27 IIRC | Jan 02 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | I have the references at hand. | Jan 02 10:55 |
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| oiaohm1 | tessier is cost of parts. RTOS kernel can make some devices cheeper. | Jan 02 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | RTOS giants like Wind River move to Linux also | Jan 02 10:56 |
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| oiaohm1 | Skipping handling chips for stuff and using the OS it self. | Jan 02 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | They use the proprietary parts for added value | Jan 02 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | Same with LynuxWorks, which has some Linux distro whose name I can't recall | Jan 02 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | Something like Lynx or puma | Jan 02 10:56 |
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| oiaohm1 | 40 to 50 percent in the embed market is about as far as you can go without good rtos support. | Jan 02 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | Something from the family of cats | Jan 02 10:57 |
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| oiaohm1 | What is still way better than what MS holds in the embeded market what is a basicaly 0 | Jan 02 10:58 |
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| oiaohm1 | Just looked LynuxWorks up its BlueCat Linux | Jan 02 10:59 |
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| *tessier adds a Linux Headlines RSS portlet to the Linux page of his website | Jan 02 11:00 |
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| oiaohm | Just got to a more sane client. | Jan 02 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | BleuCat! | Jan 02 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that's the one. | Jan 02 11:02 |
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| tessier | sacre-bleu! | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | They always have fallbacks these RTOS brands that are known | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft renamed its embedded space contender | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| tessier | What are some good Linux news rss feeds? I've got /. and lwn... | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | But changing names ain't a winning strategy | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| tessier | Wasn't WinCE their "embedded" OS? | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | It also offered the thing for just $3 back in 2004 (IIRC) | Jan 02 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: /., with all due respect, is filled with ads as 'news' | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| tessier | linuxtoday.com... | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | I dropped it after years or reading | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| tessier | Yeah, but the Linux only section isn't too bad. | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | TuxMachines. | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | Hands down. | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| oiaohm | lynxos is lynuxworks other OS that has a Linux compadiblity layour like BSD. 2 gb memory limit on it. | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | I put a list here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/12/a... | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * TechDirt | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * TuxMachines | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * Heise | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * LinuxDevices | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * Phoronix | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * Royal HeHe2-ness | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | * Roberto Galoppini | Jan 02 11:04 |
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| tessier | Cool! Thanks! | Jan 02 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | These are the ones I trust | Jan 02 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | No money on the table and all... | Jan 02 11:05 |
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| oiaohm | Windows CE kernel functionally suxed. | Jan 02 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | They de-emphasize it now. | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | It lost the margins war | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| oiaohm | What happens when you try to cut back a OS to make a embed OS get a dog. | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Windows is now losing this war too | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Sub-notebooks being a major cause | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know about servers, though. | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| oiaohm | Thing people forget Windows NT was at first designed for Real time work. | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Office is getting cheap (less than GBP 100 over here, if one gets a discount) | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| oiaohm | Then some idiot put a non real time spinlock system in it. | Jan 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Windows Mobile is dying | Jan 02 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | [say Microsoft fans] | Jan 02 11:07 |
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| oiaohm | Really Windows NT working as it was designed at first would be a threat. | Jan 02 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | It's antiquated and it tried hard to use the 'familiar' Windows UI where it does not fit well. | Jan 02 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | Windows NT = "better UNIX than UNIX"? Really? | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| tessier | "I'm Linux. I mean, Linus. I keep typing that wrong." haha | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| oiaohm | Windows NT built as per it design. | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | 2 days ago: http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2008/12/31... | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| oiaohm | Not the windows NT you know. | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: there is a baby in Sweden called "Linux" | Jan 02 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linux.com/feature/149992 | Jan 02 11:09 |
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| tessier | Poor kid. | Jan 02 11:09 |
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| schestowitz | Comment: "My daughter is named Benedikte (after Linus Benedict Torvalds) - the closest I could get with a daughter - Linux/Linus are typical boys names. Benedikte was born in May 1998." | Jan 02 11:09 |
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| oiaohm | NT has all the parts to be a true real time kernel including ques on IO access so they could be prempted. Completely stuffed by putting a normal not premptable spinlock systme in. | Jan 02 11:09 |
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| oiaohm | Stuff Linux is trying to do now to become realtime was in the NT design from the start. | Jan 02 11:10 |
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| oiaohm | Microsoft history is sad stack of short cuts and lack of quality control. | Jan 02 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.” -- BillG | Jan 02 11:12 |
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| oiaohm | Also the other Idea that stuffs Microsoft up is that all markets need there own OS. | Jan 02 11:13 |
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| oiaohm | So instead of fixing up the NT kernel for phones and embeded devices they created windows moblie and windows ce. | Jan 02 11:13 |
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| oiaohm | Can microsoft have a logic shift in time and save self maybe. | Jan 02 11:14 |
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| oiaohm | But I don't give them good odd. | Jan 02 11:15 |
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| oiaohm | One of the sneekest exclusionary deals done a creative way. Is Microsofts support for closed spec on hardware. | Jan 02 11:16 |
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| oiaohm | No hardware specs no one able to built competting OS's. | Jan 02 11:16 |
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| oiaohm | Over time lots of people think its normal. When before microsoft doing it. The normal was open spec why the IBM XT machine was so cloneable. | Jan 02 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | Their priorities changed. | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | I doubt they go after embedded now. | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| oiaohm | They still are in a different way. | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | That's the impression I got around June (ish) when there was a brouhaha about it. | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| trmanco | they are going after sub-netbooks | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| oiaohm | Did you read that pay as you go patent. | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | As for Windows Mobile, now they have Zune and they spend /HUGE/ amounts of money on some separate stuff | Jan 02 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | " Danger" (the company) acquisition.. | Jan 02 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | There was also a company with an Asian names (IIRC) that does browser zooming for mobile | Jan 02 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | They replicate effort | Jan 02 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | iPhone and even Android make them shy of the competition | Jan 02 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: would that be sub-sub-notebooks? :-) | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/SSL-survey << Remember netcraft is microsoft. | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: pay as you play = desparation | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| trmanco | :-P | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | This is not news | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | Mary Jo Foley, like myself, knows that this is years old | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | The patents also | Jan 02 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | I knew about this patent over a year ago | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | They experimented, but I doubt it was economical successs. | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| oiaohm | Just like MS attacking china pirate who was there partner. | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | They can't figure out how to monetise Windows | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| oiaohm | Microsoft is getting desparation. | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | In most of the world, Windows is 'free' | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | If they charge for it, they lose more market to Linux | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| trmanco | why have an OS on a netbook that eats up half your ram with no security, when you can get a netbook that consumes 300 and has all the security thing bundled? | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | Brazil and China are big example. India too to an extent. | Jan 02 11:22 |
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| oiaohm | For along time MS has depended on ssl numbers to sell there servers. | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | *Examples | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | China used Red Flag as a threat or bargaining card | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | Then Gates flew over (maybe just metaphorically) to negotiate 'free' Windows | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| oiaohm | China using Red Flag as a sledge hammer. | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | Now the Chinese are forcing some shops to move to 'licensed' Linux (probably with back doors) | Jan 02 11:23 |
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| oiaohm | MS threatens China nukes that market with Red Flag | Jan 02 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: they try to change specs of sub-notebooks | Jan 02 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | If they can stop the low-end $199 sub-notebooks, they harm Linux | Jan 02 11:24 |
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| oiaohm | Worse China forces removal of windows completely from markets MS complains about. | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | But Linux won't go away. They can't choke it like they did with Palm or Netscape | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| oiaohm | Even if the machine has a legal windows copy. | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | China's military moves to Linux too, IIRC | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | They want to keys to the back doors | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| oiaohm | They did not kill netscape completely. | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| oiaohm | Firefox still live and kicking quite well. | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| *mib_du1l0z (i=4ebad13d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1f761aa42fbf1d20) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 02 11:25 |
| schestowitz | Windows = FBI/CIA/NSA have the key, maybe sharing it with China after negitation | Jan 02 11:25 |
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| trmanco | new microfoot (R) netbook specs: 8 GB ram, some Intel quad core/AMD opetron, a truck battery, 50 000 rpm hard drive with 500 GB of disk space :) | Jan 02 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | China wants to be the only one with source code and key (they give Linux as binaries) | Jan 02 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, because Netscape embraced open source | Jan 02 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | Gecko and all.. | Jan 02 11:26 |
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| *mib_du1l0z has quit (Client Quit) | Jan 02 11:26 |
| schestowitz | That's why Microosft is afraid of these licences that spread. | Jan 02 11:26 |
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| oiaohm | Netscape kicked off large section of commerical open source. | Jan 02 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | They try to bury one company liek Linspire, but all the code is resurrected elsewhere. | Jan 02 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | They want one throat to choke -- Novell. | Jan 02 11:27 |
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| oiaohm | Netscape might to be here any more but the effect they started most likely win in the end. | Jan 02 11:27 |
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| oiaohm | Novell is a vampire | Jan 02 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | No, a trap | Jan 02 11:28 |
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| oiaohm | Always has been. | Jan 02 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | It's entrapping users under Microsoft's TERMS | Jan 02 11:28 |
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| oiaohm | How many companies that have been Novell partners in crime that are still alive today. | Jan 02 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | Examples? | Jan 02 11:28 |
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| oiaohm | SCO and Microsoft are the only 2 left. | Jan 02 11:29 |
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| schestowitz | WordPerfect? | Jan 02 11:29 |
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| oiaohm | And SCO is almost dead. | Jan 02 11:29 |
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| oiaohm | From Novells actions. | Jan 02 11:29 |
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| schestowitz | They loved Ransom. :-) | Jan 02 11:29 |
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| oiaohm | Novell never would have entered the deal with Microsoft without a plan to destroy them. | Jan 02 11:30 |
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| oiaohm | So Novell game would be that we would be slaves to Novell not Microsoft. | Jan 02 11:30 |
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| oiaohm | History of Novell that has never changed. | Jan 02 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | Novell's POV is different | Jan 02 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | It's about being a friend of the Bully | Jan 02 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | Like Citrix | Jan 02 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | The 'bad guys' are Red Hat, UNIX, Ubuntu, even Apple and Google. | Jan 02 11:32 |
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| oiaohm | Novell mode of operation be your friend remain your friend. Set you up and kill you. | Jan 02 11:32 |
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| oiaohm | Anyone who as seen Novell aquire software contacts can tell you that first hand. | Jan 02 11:33 |
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| oiaohm | That is even pre Microsoft. | Jan 02 11:34 |
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| oiaohm | I still think the SCO case was the most nasty. Selling all Unix rights they had the right to transfer to SCO. Due to the BSD vs Novell case there was bugger all that was transferable. | Jan 02 11:35 |
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| oiaohm | Mono might manage to top it. | Jan 02 11:36 |
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| schestowitz | Mono? | Jan 02 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft won't let it | Jan 02 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | In face, Microsoft is promoting the thing. | Jan 02 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | You don't hand over nukes to your enemy | Jan 02 11:37 |
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| oiaohm | Read the contract Novell got Microsoft into. | Jan 02 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | If Microsoft does not premote Novell products its a breach of contract. | Jan 02 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | There is no reverse requirement. | Jan 02 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | That's wishful thinking. Novell spends no time criticising Microsoft. | Jan 02 11:40 |
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| schestowitz | Don't overestimate Microsoft's incompetence. | Jan 02 11:40 |
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| oiaohm | Even funnier was the requirement for Microsoft to hand out free coupons to for SUSE Linux. That MS had to buy from Novel at full price of SUSE. | Jan 02 11:41 |
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| oiaohm | Really would you kick someone who is handing you cash. | Jan 02 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | That's not a good thing. | Jan 02 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | They try to block Free Linux. | Jan 02 11:41 |
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| oiaohm | Novell has never been about free OS. | Jan 02 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | They find out where it catches on and then enforce Microsoft software patents upon companies. | Jan 02 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | They set up precedence and liability | Jan 02 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | Novell does not care; it thinks only of the money that it needs (or else it will die) | Jan 02 11:42 |
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| oiaohm | When is that fact new. | Jan 02 11:42 |
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| oiaohm | Pre deal all Novell though about was that. | Jan 02 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jan 02 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Not new, but does that matter? | Jan 02 11:43 |
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| oiaohm | Novell will turn on Microsoft as so as Microsoft cannot pay. | Jan 02 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | Not a good place to put yourself. | Jan 02 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | MS deal also proves that Novell patents are more valuable than Microsoft ones effectively rendering MS defensive patents useless. | Jan 02 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Question with the MS Novell deal is who is going to be dead first. | Jan 02 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | Not really | Jan 02 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | They do it for side effects | Jan 02 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | Both Microsoft and Novell are aligned against common rivals | Jan 02 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | They collaborate, not fight | Jan 02 11:49 |
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| oiaohm | So was SCO and Novell before Novell set them up for death. | Jan 02 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | SCO was small | Jan 02 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft used it too | Jan 02 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | SCO and Novell were both the same size when they entered the deal with each other. | Jan 02 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | Problem for SCO when they found themselfs in the hole Novell created for them there was no way out so took money from anyone who would give it in the hope of finding a way out. | Jan 02 11:52 |
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| oiaohm | Before Novell and SCO become friends just like Microsoft and Novell they were both competing in the same market. Novell and SCO joined forces to take control of Linux as well. | Jan 02 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | Histroy is looping. | Jan 02 11:54 |
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| schestowitz | Which year was this? SCO-Novell/Caldera? | Jan 02 11:55 |
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| schestowitz | *Oops. SCO/Caldera | Jan 02 11:55 |
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| oiaohm | Back in the 1990. I know that the money for Novell dryed up with the .net bubble burst. | Jan 02 11:56 |
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| oiaohm | Yes history is repeating in more ways than 1. | Jan 02 11:56 |
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| oiaohm | So the sale of the trap to SCO was about extracting the last bit of money out of SCO. | Jan 02 11:57 |
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| oiaohm | Destroying SCO was kinda ment to make Novell look like the white knight to the open source world. | Jan 02 11:58 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | They sure fool some people. | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | White knight.. to Microsoft | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | "how novell stepped up and said intellectual property matters" -- Steve Ballmer (not exact quote) | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| oiaohm | Novell is never a White Knight | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | From October 2007 meeting in the UK | Jan 02 11:59 |
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| oiaohm | Microsoft is not in a location to negotate with Novell. | Jan 02 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | OT: As Crisis Spreads, a Pinch Becomes a Squeeze < http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/nyregion/2... > | Jan 02 12:00 |
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| oiaohm | Novell has the patents to shut MS down. | Jan 02 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. No, Novell is frail. | Jan 02 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | it has patents, yes, but so does Sun | Jan 02 12:01 |
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| schestowitz | They know from SCO what happens when they take this route. | Jan 02 12:01 |
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| schestowitz | Orem does not need another SCO killing its way down in court | Jan 02 12:01 |
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| schestowitz | Shedding staff off like a zombie.. | Jan 02 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | Novell shrank in 2008 | Jan 02 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | WTF! | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | I have YouTube on "Novell" syndicated | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | "Oracle & Novell Dance To The Tune Of Chiquitita(Marian Rivera Inspired)" | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://uk.youtube.com/wat... | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | "Oracle & Novel"? | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | Do they call kids after companies? | Jan 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://ask.slashdot.org/article.... "Here in the UK, our skytv settop box crashed (lost all tv channels but not the menus precisley at 00:00 1/1/2009 needed a cold boot to get the channels back." | Jan 02 12:07 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/04/no... Novell numbers for 2008 have barly been effected. | Jan 02 12:08 |
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| oiaohm | Main reason vampiring. | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| schestowitz | In the past 7 hours, BoycottNovell sent over 10,000 pages to non-bots | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| schestowitz | Not bad for a holiday. ;-) | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, you got your server back? (usenet)? | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: let me check | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| trmanco | forget it | Jan 02 12:09 |
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| trmanco | it was a old post of yours that got up :| | Jan 02 12:10 |
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| schestowitz | No, still unreachable, until kentma gets home from Canada. | Jan 02 12:10 |
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| trmanco | ok | Jan 02 12:10 |
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| schestowitz | Vampire don't lose staff (limbs) every year | Jan 02 12:10 |
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| schestowitz | Novell has shrunk for a long time | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | Top search queries in the past 30 hours: | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | microsoft layoffs14919.9 % | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | microsoft425.6 % | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | microsoft layoffs 2008374.9 % | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | microsoft layoff293.8 % | Jan 02 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | People want answers. Many people do. | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| oiaohm | Google has had the closet thing to layoffs ever. | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| oiaohm | Droping there part time staff. | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, MS too | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| oiaohm | 2009 could get bruttle. | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | But MS keeps quiet about it | Jan 02 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | See the BN comment from Needs Sunlight (latest) | Jan 02 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | He wrote about this a long time ago and I saw people ranting about it in USENET | Jan 02 12:13 |
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| oiaohm | Cutting full time staff is sign of major problems. | Jan 02 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | They quietly see their contracts dropped (that does not formally count as "layoff" | Jan 02 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | brittle? | Jan 02 12:13 |
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| oiaohm | brutal dyslexia/attempt correct did not work out. | Jan 02 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | This will save the economy: http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/01/usb-je... | Jan 02 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft goes into debt, but here is the thing | Jan 02 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about it years ago and like a gang of hyenas people attacked me. | Jan 02 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | Bill Parish wrote about this too | Jan 02 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | He pointed out that Microsoft silents voices of alarm by attacking them | Jan 02 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | Same with the Gates Fundation [sic], which is not what people are led to believe | Jan 02 12:16 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's defence of its Big Lies is similar to some races that attack volces of truth. | Jan 02 12:16 |
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| schestowitz | Dismissing them as crazy, zealot, or racist | Jan 02 12:16 |
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| oiaohm | So true. I have crossed enough of them. | Jan 02 12:16 |
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| oiaohm | I have always been a pure logical to OS comparing. | Jan 02 12:17 |
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| schestowitz | Here's the thing again. | Jan 02 12:17 |
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| schestowitz | I may never get credit for saying this long ago when people tried to blind the messenger with heaps of Big Lies. | Jan 02 12:17 |
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| schestowitz | Same thing with THE ECNOMY | Jan 02 12:17 |
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| schestowitz | How many people warned it would collapse like this? | Jan 02 12:17 |
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| schestowitz | How many of them were PUBLISHED on paper? | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| schestowitz | They were marginalised and now that it turns out they were right all along, not a word it... | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| oiaohm | One person published a complete 800 page book. | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| schestowitz | *about it | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| oiaohm | Its a really good read | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| schestowitz | LONG read :-) | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| oiaohm | Me 800 page book 6 hours reading. | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| schestowitz | Who in this age would read long book? | Jan 02 12:18 |
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| oiaohm | I have sleep problems from time to time. | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| schestowitz | People are lazy; they read headlines and summaries; the Net enables this | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| oiaohm | Book don't make any noise. | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| schestowitz | You can't use them well | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| schestowitz | Like take or highlight bits, let alone search | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| schestowitz | I find that limiting | Jan 02 12:19 |
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| oiaohm | I use electronic a lot too. Its just for when I cannot sleep. | Jan 02 12:20 |
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| schestowitz | Being physical, people use them as extensions/aides/buddies/accompanying things/enhancers | Jan 02 12:20 |
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| schestowitz | That's why some people prefer printer books | Jan 02 12:20 |
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| schestowitz | I'd hate having a good book only on paper | Jan 02 12:21 |
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| oiaohm | No one has made a good electronic book that does not manage to go flat right at the wrong time. | Jan 02 12:21 |
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| schestowitz | With electronic version, you can produce (print) many copies | Jan 02 12:21 |
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| schestowitz | You can also share them and carry them on a UDB stick | Jan 02 12:21 |
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| schestowitz | .*USB | Jan 02 12:21 |
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| schestowitz | I'be just realised that I confused Dave Methvin with Foley of the same publication.. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/a... | Jan 02 12:23 |
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| oiaohm | Problem with truth is sooner or latter it comes out in a way you cannot stop. | Jan 02 12:25 |
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| schestowitz | I know. | Jan 02 12:25 |
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| schestowitz | Just watch the AstroTurfing evidence. | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| oiaohm | Now that support of Linux is going mainstream AstroTrufing is going to become insanely hard. | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| schestowitz | If you watch closely, he said the collapse of the "Free market" triggered him to regret it. | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| schestowitz | But.... IT'S also because I leaked it | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| schestowitz | I sent it to Grolaw, which put out the text in full. | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| schestowitz | And then I drew lots of attention to it. | Jan 02 12:26 |
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| oiaohm | Personally I really need to get a lot more proactive on quality control issues in open source. | Jan 02 12:27 |
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| oiaohm | Most hated myth about quality is time between releases is a factor. | Jan 02 12:27 |
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| schestowitz | It'll be a super-slow year for business next year (few press releases and product announcements). Easier for me. :-) | Jan 02 12:28 |
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| oiaohm | I would not be too sure on that. | Jan 02 12:28 |
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| schestowitz | There was an article in Heise about it yesterday(ish) | Jan 02 12:28 |
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| oiaohm | Could be a super insane year for you. | Jan 02 12:28 |
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| schestowitz | Some German guy wrote about Debian release (quality vs timeframe) | Jan 02 12:28 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: insane just for me? How come? | Jan 02 12:29 |
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| oiaohm | Windows 7 MS Office 2009 and the pres pack of media releases they do when ever there are new products. | Jan 02 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?sto... | Jan 02 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw still in turtle pace mode :-( | Jan 02 12:30 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: compared to previous years, that's not much. Vista7 might be released in 2010 | Jan 02 12:30 |
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| schestowitz | Released only to 'die'... | Jan 02 12:30 |
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| schestowitz | People won't be buying dual cores in the year to come. | Jan 02 12:31 |
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| schestowitz | They can't afford it, so slim software wins. | Jan 02 12:31 |
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| oiaohm | Quality of code is directly liked to the Quality control processors you have. | Jan 02 12:32 |
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| oiaohm | Not to the time between releases. | Jan 02 12:32 |
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| oiaohm | Problem for distributions they try applying Quality Controls after the fact instead of in the projects producing the code for them. | Jan 02 12:33 |
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| MinceR | hay | Jan 02 12:35 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's ’technical evangelism’ structures are getting too rusty and people will hopefully start suing</a>, equipped with information and proof. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/02/gary-s... | Jan 02 12:35 |
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| oiaohm | Remember the old saying prevention beats cure. So true for application construction. If you have good quality controls on all alterations going into a project you don't have to try to find errors on the other side as much.. | Jan 02 12:37 |
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| oiaohm | Hi MinceR | Jan 02 12:38 |
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| schestowitz | I see this spin re: Zune | Jan 02 12:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's not Microsoft fault... it's somebody else's (freezing) | Jan 02 12:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | The hecklers in BN used that too (well, one of them did, which makes him worth suspicion) | Jan 02 12:40 |
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| oiaohm | AMD should have know better. Who could forget the AIGLX stuff up between redhat and novell | Jan 02 12:42 |
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| oiaohm | Or the promised evolution for windows. That in the end turn out to run like a dog using cygwin and a X11 server on windows. | Jan 02 12:43 |
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| schestowitz | AMD had collabs going with NOVL | Jan 02 12:43 |
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| schestowitz | They still have that OpenSUSE sort of sponsorship/promotion | Jan 02 12:44 |
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| oiaohm | I think the only thing that saved the deal was Novells deal with microsoft allowing them to come into contact with Microsoft protected stuff about Direct X. | Jan 02 12:45 |
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| oiaohm | Ie the cross patent agreement thing. | Jan 02 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | Would it be so complex? | Jan 02 12:48 |
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| oiaohm | Not really. | Jan 02 12:50 |
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| oiaohm | Novell Microsoft patent deal is 100 percent protection to both parties as long it stays in effect from the others patents and IP. | Jan 02 12:51 |
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| oiaohm | So what ever AMD has to aquire from Microsoft for Direct X compadiblity is covered. | Jan 02 12:52 |
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| oiaohm | Novell deal with Microsoft is quite complete. | Jan 02 12:52 |
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| oiaohm | Reason for the requirement in the deal that Novell could not work on Wine. | Jan 02 12:53 |
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| schestowitz | But that would suggest Novell has some exclusive ownership of things it does with AMD. | Jan 02 12:53 |
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| oiaohm | No it does not. | Jan 02 12:53 |
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| schestowitz | Why Wine? | Jan 02 12:54 |
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| oiaohm | If Novell comes into contact with a doc contain stuff needed for direct X no foul to AMD. | Jan 02 12:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's not covered BTW | Jan 02 12:54 |
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| oiaohm | If Novell was allowed to work on wine they would be able to use there access to windows source code. | Jan 02 12:54 |
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| oiaohm | And other core documents to make applications work. | Jan 02 12:55 |
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| oiaohm | Yes complete. | Jan 02 12:55 |
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| oiaohm | Now if Novell released Direct X docs that it go from AMD it would be foul on Novell. | Jan 02 12:57 |
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| schestowitz | DirectX? | Jan 02 12:57 |
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| schestowitz | Well, wait... why would they access DirectX? | Jan 02 12:57 |
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| oiaohm | Some sections of video card design are directly based of Direct X internal requirements. | Jan 02 12:57 |
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| oiaohm | Just like some sections of video cards are based of opengl requirements. | Jan 02 12:58 |
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| oiaohm | AMD breachs the agreement with Microsoft over that Direct X stuff and AMD would get cut out loop or at least risk it. | Jan 02 12:59 |
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| oiaohm | Yes why its taking so long to get a lot of docs through legal departments of AMD. Then there are other bits protected by patents held by S3 and the like. | Jan 02 13:00 |
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| schestowitz | But does Novell need to give its engineer access to DirectX stuff? | Jan 02 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | I doubt it. They should be able to process just OGL instructions | Jan 02 13:01 |
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| oiaohm | Its more case of mistake. | Jan 02 13:01 |
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| oiaohm | Novell is safer for AMD to be passing docs to. | Jan 02 13:01 |
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| oiaohm | Since it don't count. | Jan 02 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | But whose patents and NDAs? | Jan 02 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is only in bed with the Vole. | Jan 02 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | And has some patents to cross-license with, but the code is freely distributed | Jan 02 13:02 |
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| oiaohm | NDA exists between Microsoft and every video card maker with Direct X support. | Jan 02 13:02 |
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| oiaohm | That is a big one. | Jan 02 13:03 |
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| oiaohm | S3 no foul for a closed source driver builder working for a company coming in contact with sections its got under NDA. | Jan 02 13:03 |
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| oiaohm | Most of the others are like S3 one. | Jan 02 13:04 |
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| oiaohm | Microsoft one is the one with teeth to take your arms off as a video card maker. | Jan 02 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | Even for OpenGL? | Jan 02 13:05 |
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| oiaohm | Opengl is mostly safe. | Jan 02 13:05 |
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| schestowitz | Unless Novell needs access to DirectX, I don't see it.. | Jan 02 13:06 |
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| oiaohm | S3 patent covers a form of texture compression. | Jan 02 13:06 |
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| oiaohm | That is optional to be used by opengl. | Jan 02 13:06 |
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| oiaohm | Docs for video card design not always neatly sorted schestowitz | Jan 02 13:06 |
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| oiaohm | One function might be used in Direct X and Opengl for two different functions. | Jan 02 13:07 |
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| oiaohm | Ie function names. | Jan 02 13:07 |
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| oiaohm | Its more comming into contact with it in the design documents. | Jan 02 13:08 |
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| oiaohm | Yes part of creating open source ATI drivers has been spliting the documents in 2. | Jan 02 13:09 |
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| schestowitz | So you're suggesting that licences with Microsoft somehow get passed to Novell? | Jan 02 13:09 |
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| schestowitz | This does not convince me. | Jan 02 13:10 |
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| schestowitz | In fact, they were able to look for Red Hat developers | Jan 02 13:10 |
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| schestowitz | I assume you saw my last post. | Jan 02 13:10 |
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| oiaohm | Redhat equals having to split the documents before passing them over. | Jan 02 13:11 |
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| oiaohm | Novell and Microsoft agreement gave Novell protection from IP breach with Microsoft. So Novell coming into contact with something NDA protected by Microsoft would be the same as Microsoft coming into contact with it. No foul. | Jan 02 13:13 |
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| schestowitz | Is there any confirmation of this? | Jan 02 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | If it had reasons, someone would say it. | Jan 02 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Novell or its developers, I reckon. | Jan 02 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | As if to say, "look, the deal with Microsoft was good because yadda yadda..." | Jan 02 13:15 |
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| oiaohm | Its a double sided sword. | Jan 02 13:15 |
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| oiaohm | Just because Novel can come into contact with MS NDA protected stuff does not mean they can release it. | Jan 02 13:15 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* > http://www.antonywilliams.com/2009/01/more... | Jan 02 13:15 |
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| oiaohm | Its a protection part of the deal in Novel and Microsoft. It was released to the stock exchange. | Jan 02 13:16 |
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| oiaohm | To me ages to get all the details of all the conditions and effects worked out from it. | Jan 02 13:17 |
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| oiaohm | End Novell wins. | Jan 02 13:17 |
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| oiaohm | Free advertising and Money. | Jan 02 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I have that SEC filing. | Jan 02 13:20 |
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| schestowitz | About patents | Jan 02 13:20 |
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| oiaohm | There is more in there. | Jan 02 13:20 |
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| schestowitz | I disagree about it being a win, certainly not for GNU/Linux as a whole. it's Novell and Microsoft trashing the F/OSS ecosystem for seflish gain. | Jan 02 13:21 |
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| oiaohm | F/0SS ecosystem destroying was always Novells goal. | Jan 02 13:21 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/24/coope... | Jan 02 13:22 |
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| oiaohm | Section 10 of sec filing schestowitz wording is extreamly open and extreamly protecting. | Jan 02 13:39 |
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| oiaohm | Problem is in the over use of or | Jan 02 13:40 |
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| oiaohm | Some sections really should have been and. | Jan 02 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | Also section 11 cuts on MS teeth to hit back hard. | Jan 02 13:49 |
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| trmanco | Will OpenOffice.org Go to the Ball this Year?: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-... | Jan 02 14:00 |
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| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 02 14:00 |
| trmanco | More on Microsoft layoffs: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_conten... | Jan 02 14:08 |
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| trmanco | "Then take into consideration that Microsoft hires a lot of employees via agencies and that this number of employees aren't included in the total head count at Microsoft. There's a big chance that a large chunk of the 17 percent figure could come out of the agency staff." | Jan 02 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | Thanls. | Jan 02 14:16 |
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| schestowitz | No surprises there. | Jan 02 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://netsecurity.about.com/b/2009/01/01/m... | Jan 02 14:33 |
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