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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 20th, 2009 - Part 3


Enter the IRC channel now

oiaohmThan to have to do the converions between windows to linux or the other way.Feb 20 16:38
twitterThe result of the "upgrade" a new version of a browser and a few other minor tweaks.Feb 20 16:38
twitterIt was a huge waste of money.Feb 20 16:39
oiaohmMac to Linux almost painless.Feb 20 16:39
oiaohmEither way.Feb 20 16:39
twitterGNU/Linux saves that kind of money on a continual basis.Feb 20 16:39
oiaohmIts getting accross the divide in one piece.Feb 20 16:39
oiaohmAt least with time that is getting simpler.Feb 20 16:40
oiaohm2001 is was a real prick.Feb 20 16:40
schestowitzThat's why talking points are spreadFeb 20 16:40
schestowitzTo counter realityFeb 20 16:40
schestowitzI need to do some more posts todayFeb 20 16:40
schestowitzJust one so far :-(Feb 20 16:40
twitterYoung Franken Steve, very funny.Feb 20 16:43
schestowitz (Mills gets jail term in Berlusconi bribe case)Feb 20 16:43
schestowitz"Tessa Jowell, the Olympics minister, defended her estranged husband, David Mills, yesterday as he was sentenced to four and a half years in an Italian jail for taking a $600,000 (€£400,000) bribe as a reward for withholding court testimony to help Italy's prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi."Feb 20 16:43
schestowitzMeanwhile, it seems like Israel too gets a criminal in charge.. old bribery accusations too.. and a militant slant.Feb 20 16:43
schestowitzObama will hopefully do betterFeb 20 16:44
twitterYou have been busy, Roy.  I'm always surprised by how much you manage to find worth posting.Feb 20 16:44
schestowitzThen there's SARKO... and Gordon ain't good either.Feb 20 16:44
schestowitzI'm actually growing fond of independence fighters like ChavezFeb 20 16:44
schestowitzHe is popular among the population and the US calls him "a tyrant" because he's not allowing the US to colonialise VenezuelaFeb 20 16:44
schestowitztwitter: thanks.Feb 20 16:45
schestowitz "MI5 provided the CIA with material to interrogate Binyam Mohamed, the former UK resident at the centre of torture allegations, even though it had no idea where he was being held and in what condition he was in, it emerged yesterday."Feb 20 16:46
oiaohm  Who would have dreamed of a compare like this 5 years ago.Feb 20 16:47
schestowitzYeah... real product vs vapourwareFeb 20 16:52
oiaohmNo Linux being the real productFeb 20 16:52
oiaohmIts role reversed.Feb 20 16:52
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oiaohmMost of the compares in the past were saying Linux will have X or Y in time.Feb 20 16:53
schestowitz 20 16:53
oiaohmYou see no signs of that.Feb 20 16:53
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oiaohm  Hmm we are starting to move into secound waveFeb 20 17:03
twitterActually, oiahom, I thought GNU/Linux was ready for prime time eight years ago.Feb 20 17:04
oiaohmLinux massive processor support.  So different cpu types start appearing in frount of users.Feb 20 17:04
oiaohmI have been using Linux since 1995 twitter .   About 8 years ago it show prommise but hardware support was a major bug bear.Feb 20 17:05
oiaohmNow the move between showing promise to functional has taken a while.Feb 20 17:05
oiaohmThe evolution not working well on windows in 2002 was a major stumbling block for making move accross simple.Feb 20 17:07
schestowitz 20 17:07
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schestowitz 20 17:10
twitterI've been able to use GNU/Linux exclusively for the last 8 years.  Hardware support has always been hard everywhere, but GNU/Linux is now much better than Windows.Feb 20 17:12
twitterDistributions like Knoppix had superior hardware support from the start.Feb 20 17:13
oiaohmI started off where hardware support was have a shoping list.Feb 20 17:14
oiaohmIf you did not have the right parts it did not work.Feb 20 17:14
oiaohmAt the improvement rates of Linux I don't have a clue what it will look like in 2019Feb 20 17:14
twitterThere is still sabotage like that, but GNU/Linux now runs more hardware than any other OS ever.Feb 20 17:15
oiaohmNot everFeb 20 17:15
oiaohmBeating dos took ages.Feb 20 17:15
twitterWhat kernel has better hardware support than Linux?Feb 20 17:16
schestowitzThere's some Linux usage FUD out there.Feb 20 17:16
schestowitzI'm tryint to rebut it allFeb 20 17:16
schestowitzI think it all began with that SJVN article (which quotes BN  too).Feb 20 17:16
schestowitzOn our site (boycottnovell) which does almost 1 million pageviews a month (I dunno about Coral cache), over 30% use GNU/Linux (based on AWStats).Feb 20 17:17
twitterThe usual lie is that fewer than 1% of users have GNU/Linux.  Only 30%?  wow.Feb 20 17:17
schestowitzPeople must not measure usage based on the 'average' users' site and assume this to be representative of the average. It's a terminal mistake to make. Geographies matter A LOT too.  Linux usage in Brazil and Russian, for example, is massive. It tends to land on sites that don't speak English.Feb 20 17:17
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schestowitztwitter: more like 35%Feb 20 17:17
oiaohmDepends where you are on the earth surface.Feb 20 17:18
twitterWhen does it peak?Feb 20 17:18
oiaohmAustralia is about 0.1 % use Linux.Feb 20 17:18
oiaohmThinking that Australia has the highest usage of Microsoft products out of any country.Feb 20 17:18
twitterNot even the M$ campus has GNU/Linux desktop use that low, oiaohm.Feb 20 17:19
oiaohmWe have UNI's here that are pure MS.Feb 20 17:19
twitterAhhhh, now I know where Balmer gets his statistics ...Feb 20 17:19
twitterHe samples the M$ campus and fudges it the way he likes.Feb 20 17:20
oiaohmSmall business here runs basically 100 percent on Microsoft.Feb 20 17:20
oiaohmLarger business here most use Linux as price dropping talk.Feb 20 17:21
oiaohmCracks are starting to appear.Feb 20 17:21
schestowitzOpenSUSE is having problemsFeb 20 17:21
schestowitzYa benJIman.Feb 20 17:21
schestowitz 20 17:21
oiaohmIt also might explain why we don't see eye to eye twitter.  I am in a far more free/open source not tollerent market.  Lot here still believe the myth because its open source it has to be a secuirty risk.Feb 20 17:22
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twitter 20 17:23
twitterThe things I see and think, oiaohm, don't depend on what Windows users see or think.Feb 20 17:24
oiaohmI have even one at the moment taking a closed source china made office clone over Open Office.Feb 20 17:25
twitterthat would be baaaaa-aaa-aaa-d.Feb 20 17:25
twitter*thinking like a windows user, not an OO clone.Feb 20 17:25
schestowitz 20 17:25
schestowitzSabayon is rising in Cuba Feb 20 17:26
schestowitzGentoo also had some other success stories recently, but there are those places for drama in blogsFeb 20 17:26
oiaohmBasically this market is resistant twitter.   So I need things to work close to perfectly.Feb 20 17:26
twitter 20 17:26
oiaohmSo they don't find a reason to bail out.Feb 20 17:26
oiaohmYes here they do.   MS is easy is another nice myth here.Feb 20 17:27
twitterYou find reasons for people to bail out.  Users suffer.Feb 20 17:27
schestowitzNot the same one... 20 17:27
oiaohmNot the same twitter my reasons I state users have come to me and it was there reason for leaving it.Feb 20 17:28
schestowitzoiaohm: worry notFeb 20 17:28
oiaohmGetting them to go back after that is hard work.Feb 20 17:28
schestowitzAU is like the UK in a senseFeb 20 17:28
schestowitzVery close to English speaking neighboursFeb 20 17:28
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schestowitzSo there is the whole MS collusion relationshipFeb 20 17:28
schestowitzHere it is common for Microsoft to run the government and for the Big Criminals from US-based multinationals to be family friends of leaders.Feb 20 17:29
oiaohmDifferent markets different problems.Feb 20 17:29
twitterPeople who value their freedom don't use Windows.Feb 20 17:29
schestowitzSo adoption of FOSS is abysmal consider to the remainder of the worldFeb 20 17:29
schestowitzAlmost an oder of magnitude worseFeb 20 17:29
oiaohmProblem here no such thing on the freedom side twitter where.Feb 20 17:29
oiaohmwhere/hereFeb 20 17:29
oiaohmAlso lot of people here also believe Microsoft is good.Feb 20 17:29
schestowitzIn Germany, almost half of sub-notebooks are sold with Linux and about 6% of laptops (maybe desktops too).Feb 20 17:29
twitterthe freedom issue is everywhere, people who use Windows simply don't understand it.Feb 20 17:30
oiaohmThe issue here they want the freedom to do there business.Feb 20 17:30
schestowitzA lof of people also believe that Rockefeller and Rothschild were good. They bought PR..Feb 20 17:30
oiaohmThey believe Microsoft gives them that freedom.Feb 20 17:30
schestowitzThey don't understand freedomFeb 20 17:31
schestowitzBecause they are privilegedFeb 20 17:31
oiaohmYes you and I might to agree with them on that its getting past the mind set.Feb 20 17:31
oiaohmThey buy a truck to move stuff.Feb 20 17:31
oiaohmThey buy windows to run a computer.Feb 20 17:31
schestowitzAs long as it's Colobian farmers who are attacked by acid and Nigerian kids who suffocate from oil, they have their freedom (to suppress)Feb 20 17:31
oiaohmAnd it goes on.Feb 20 17:31
schestowitzBut that it very problematic at another scaleFeb 20 17:31
schestowitzYou could go on pretending that imperialisation like Microsoft is OK at a national level too.Feb 20 17:32
oiaohmAustralian tax office don't provide tax return software for Linux.Feb 20 17:32
schestowitzThat sabotaging competiiton (other countries) for submission is acceptable.Feb 20 17:32
oiaohmOr business interfaces software for Linux.Feb 20 17:33
oiaohmSo yep all levels.Feb 20 17:33
schestowitzThe French (And even the UK and Nazi Germany) always had reasons to justify it for themselvesFeb 20 17:33
schestowitzMicrosoft is the sameFeb 20 17:33
schestowitzThey think they do the world a favour with WindowsFeb 20 17:33
schestowitzGates extorts politicians saying that OOXML is good for the familyFeb 20 17:33
schestowitzThe IBM execs were deeply disgusted by this.Feb 20 17:33
oiaohmOOXML was votied down here.Feb 20 17:33
oiaohmNational archives have common sence.Feb 20 17:34
schestowitzPerfect plot: commit crime, rename it a "duty"Feb 20 17:34
oiaohmthis is where it gets stupid.Feb 20 17:34
schestowitzoiaohm: it wasn;tFeb 20 17:34
schestowitzAU abstainedFeb 20 17:34
oiaohmNational archives of Australia are stored in ODF.Feb 20 17:34
schestowitzIt had shill like Ricj JelliffeFeb 20 17:34
twitterGood for Au.Feb 20 17:34
schestowitzOn Microsoft's sheckelFeb 20 17:34
schestowitzGet paid by Microsoft, give 'opinion';Feb 20 17:34
twitterBusinesses change their practices when users complain that their M$ crap does not work well.  That's how it is happening here in the US.Feb 20 17:35
twitterSmall banks, dealerships and others don't dare put something up that's M$ only anymore.Feb 20 17:35
twitterMac and GNU/Linux users get turned off and leave.Feb 20 17:36
twitterEven big dumb companies are starting to get it.Feb 20 17:36
schestowitz"Update 20Feb09: I installed Easy Peasy which is a Ubuntu remix for the ASUS Eee PCs and I love it. It works great out-of-the-box! I am glad to be rid of that Xandros nightmare." 20 17:36
oiaohmYou are a few stages ahead of here twitterFeb 20 17:36
oiaohmI am still battling with how to get it into there minds clearly.Feb 20 17:37
twitterWhen people understand freedom, they don't blame GNU/Linux when things don't work, they blame M$ and other idiot businesses for the things they do.Feb 20 17:37
oiaohmSo they are really sentivitive to any set backs.Feb 20 17:37
oiaohmIts one of theses things you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.Feb 20 17:38
twitterYou have to complain when online services you use don't work.  Polite, factual complaints work.Feb 20 17:38
oiaohmIe you have to get the interested.Feb 20 17:38
oiaohmMost banks here support firefox.Feb 20 17:38
oiaohmThey go as far as rejecting users running IE.Feb 20 17:38
oiaohmBut that is purely on security grounds of course.Feb 20 17:39
twitterM$ OS are a real pain in the ass to keep working.  There's nothing more interesting to practical people than an OS that does not need all that.Feb 20 17:39
oiaohmNot there like of open source and freedom.Feb 20 17:39
oiaohmOnce I have users on Linux and use to it they don't go back.Feb 20 17:40
twitterPeople who understand freedom are willing to put up with a few problems to preserve their rights.Feb 20 17:40
oiaohmIts getting them accross without them jump back and the first problem.Feb 20 17:40
oiaohmEven if they understand freedom some here say they have the freedom to used closed if they want to.Feb 20 17:40
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twitterIf they understand and value freedom, they won't jump back.Feb 20 17:40
oiaohmWhat is right.Feb 20 17:40
oiaohmHere is more understanding that all the stupid things windows does that does not have to be the way.Feb 20 17:41
k00lchelloFeb 20 17:41
twitterhiFeb 20 17:41
oiaohmhi k00lcFeb 20 17:42
schestowitzHeyFeb 20 17:42
k00lcdid you guys know that that shana person that blogged is a mono dev?Feb 20 17:42
k00lcI just found this: 20 17:42
oiaohmyou seam to have a lot different personally of popluation twitter.  Freedom is not valued very highly here.   Most of the focus here is getting job done.  If that means using something paided so be it.Feb 20 17:43
k00lcand she's doing moonlight now, apparentlyFeb 20 17:43
schestowitzI'm getting mail about the OpenSUSE crisisFeb 20 17:43
schestowitzk00lc: we tried to find that outFeb 20 17:44
schestowitzWe couldn't find out (at the time) the mono connectionFeb 20 17:44
schestowitzOn payroll or not?Feb 20 17:44
schestowitzAhhh!Feb 20 17:44
k00lcall it took was to read the blogFeb 20 17:44
k00lcfull time at novell, what do you think?Feb 20 17:45
schestowitz"As the title says, I have a wonderful new job, working full time at Novell on my favourite open source project, Mono. What more can I say? :D *happy little coder does happy little jiggly dance*"Feb 20 17:45
schestowitzYeahFeb 20 17:45
schestowitzbeat me to itFeb 20 17:45
schestowitzhaha.Feb 20 17:45
schestowitzIll blog this, thanks.Feb 20 17:45
k00lcnpFeb 20 17:45
benJImanschestowitz: Yes I saw it.Feb 20 17:45
schestowitzbenJIman: so they promote .NET and demote LinuxFeb 20 17:47
schestowitzHow does *THAT* feel?Feb 20 17:47
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benJImanschestowitz: That's an interesting interpretation.Feb 20 17:47
schestowitzI'm gonna wrtite about itFeb 20 17:47
schestowitzbenJIman: it isFeb 20 17:47
schestowitzThey turn Linux into Microsoft's playgroundFeb 20 17:47
benJImanI like .net (though prefer java)Feb 20 17:47
schestowitzNow with ASP.NETFeb 20 17:47
schestowitzMiguel wrote about it last nightFeb 20 17:47
benJIman\o/Feb 20 17:47
schestowitzIt's very obvious what they have in storeFeb 20 17:47
schestowitz"be MS bitch and beg for lifelines"Feb 20 17:48
schestowitzbenJIman: of course you do. That's why you're with OpenSUSE.Feb 20 17:48
schestowitzMicrosoft LinuxFeb 20 17:48
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trmancohey guysFeb 20 18:27
schestowitzHeyFeb 20 18:33
schestowitzWhat's up?Feb 20 18:33
*schestowitz works on a very damning Novell postFeb 20 18:33
trmanconothing muchFeb 20 18:33
balzacI can think of one defense for proprietary software users and developersFeb 20 18:39
balzacfor those who know better, but who still choose proprietary softwareFeb 20 18:39
balzacthe're kinky and they get off on controlling and being controlledFeb 20 18:39
balzacso long as they're consciously participating in their particular fetish, who am I to judge?Feb 20 18:40
balzacthe problem comes when they fail to respect others boundaries, trying to control those who are not interested in being controlledFeb 20 18:41
twitterM$'s H1B program concerns go mainstream, 20 18:43
twitter" As many as 5,000 employees are being shown the door at Microsoft, which uses more H1-B guest-worker visas than any other U.S. company. Some employees and politicians say Microsoft should get rid of foreigners first."Feb 20 18:44
twitter" Foreigners face severe difficulties when they are fired because their visas are tied to their employer, said Paul Soreff, a Seattle lawyer and former chairman of the Washington Chapter of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. While employers must pay for a visa holder’s ticket home, transporting other family members and their possessions falls on the worker." - something I had not thought of, ouch.Feb 20 18:46
twitterWritten by Dina Bass, who usually does a good job.Feb 20 18:48
twitterOh yeah, M$FT is about $1 above it's 52 week low.  Novell is down to 3.25.Feb 20 18:55
schestowitzNovell might fall under $3 soonFeb 20 18:58
schestowitzDina Bass... MS buddy.Feb 20 18:58
schestowitzDOW is almost below 7000 !Feb 20 18:58
twitter"little coder does happy little jiggly dance"  They are "little" now and had been since eating M$ poison.Feb 20 18:58
schestowitzIt might soon go below 50% of all-time highFeb 20 18:59
twitter?  both M$ and Novell are way below that.Feb 20 19:00
twitterIn the Novell case, they are flirting with 5% of their $40 Y2K peak.Feb 20 19:01
twitterM$ is flunking towards 25% of their Y2K price of $60.Feb 20 19:03
schestowitzMS has heavy buybacvks thoughFeb 20 19:03
schestowitzSo you can't see the reality of the matterFeb 20 19:03
schestowitzYou see how many stocks are held.. but not by REAL investorsFeb 20 19:03
schestowitzNovell too has buybacks going, but not very heavy ones and they may have already expired (reached their end)Feb 20 19:04
twitterThey can't hide their evaporating cash pile and their buybacks are probably costing them a fortune now.Feb 20 19:04
twitterThe other day, I saw where Bill G and other insiders had been dumping their shares.Feb 20 19:04
twitter 20 19:05
twitter-> 02/09 - Over the last six months, insiders have been dumping not buying M$FT.  Bill Gates himself shed 22 million shares, 2 million of them at $18.84.  So much for the "buying shares now is smart" lieFeb 20 19:06
twitterM$ Death Watch 20 19:06
twitterM$ buying shares is only smart for insiders who want to cash out.Feb 20 19:08
schestowitzYesFeb 20 19:17
schestowitzGates sold sharedFeb 20 19:17
schestowitz*resFeb 20 19:17
schestowitzI wrote about it in BNFeb 20 19:17
schestowitzIt's masness.Feb 20 19:17
schestowitz*madnessFeb 20 19:17
schestowitzPutting money in Microsoft now is like putting coin in the slot machine, believing that you found a trick for always winning (reversing odds)Feb 20 19:18
schestowitzIf you have money, sell short.. but the SEC has forbidden this since last year (it was on Groklaw too)Feb 20 19:18
schestowitzSome people gambled on the meltdown, which they knew was comingFeb 20 19:18
schestowitzThey became rich from this total collapse that they artificially permitted to come.Feb 20 19:19
schestowitzWell, that's why they call it FraudStreet :-DFeb 20 19:19
twitterSubmitted Slave Worker Resentment 20 19:27
schestowitzbenJIman: learn about the company you support: 20 19:40
benJImanFrom the headline I can only assume it's a good thing €¬_€¬Feb 20 19:48
PetoKrausthat's what she said!Feb 20 19:49
schestowitzWe got some front page (Digg) publicity... 20 19:51
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schestowitz 20 19:55
schestowitzStop Baby Boomer Bashing: Protect Social Security and Medicare < >Feb 20 20:01
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schestowitzThe fraudsters from Edelman (of Vista laptops bribes) are at it again: 20 20:06
amd-linuxdid you guys read the news regarding Asus bringing a Android netbook? That would be a slap in MS face....Feb 20 20:09
amd-linux 20 20:09
schestowitzAnother set of fraudstrers is nymshifting to escape the association with what they did: Countrywide" Goes the Way of "Blackwater" < >Feb 20 20:09
schestowitzamd-linux: yes, seen itFeb 20 20:09
schestowitz 20 20:09
trmanco 20 20:09
trmanco:DFeb 20 20:10
schestowitzASUS will hopefully not accept the incentives or whatever to give it up again.Feb 20 20:10
amd-linuxloads of good news currently wr to linux.....Feb 20 20:10
amd-linuxand FOSS in general.Feb 20 20:10
schestowitztrmanco: For a moment there I was hoping for backlash against moon lie in Ubuntu 9.04Feb 20 20:10
amd-linuxthe financial crisis is giving FOSS adoption a real boost me thinks?Feb 20 20:10
schestowitzamd-linux: definitelyFeb 20 20:10
schestowitzI read something earlier about, well...Feb 20 20:11
schestowitzThe Tech bubble led to growth of Linux.Feb 20 20:11
schestowitzPeople just wanted to carry on coding something, so unemployed people gave it a boostFeb 20 20:11
schestowitzI didn't follow Linux closely at the time (just used it)Feb 20 20:11
schestowitzI can't quite recall where I read and whether I paste it in IRC this morning.Feb 20 20:11
schestowitzamd-linux: regardless of what it does the FOSS, that's the wrong QFeb 20 20:12
schestowitzIt hurts Apple (AppleWorld dies, no new products this year) and it hurts Microsoft moreFeb 20 20:12
schestowitzIt's all relative but with all in "brace" mode, the clumsy ones can't advance... Debian did well with 5.0Feb 20 20:13
amd-linuxwell, sad thing is that it needs such a desaster scenario to make people aware of FOSSFeb 20 20:13
schestowitz[H]omer will breathe more life back into BLAG Linux.Feb 20 20:13
schestowitzBLAG Linux and GNUFeb 20 20:13
MinceRblogoblagFeb 20 20:13
MinceR:)Feb 20 20:13
schestowitz:-oFeb 20 20:13
schestowitzIn the news today: (Vista 7 sabotages Linux neighbours)Feb 20 20:14
schestowitzShades of OS/2 and DR-DOS attack tacticsFeb 20 20:14
schestowitzMan Dies at Microsoft Again: 20 20:14
schestowitzMaybe Microsoft is haunted. Some time ago a man fell down the elevator shaft and a Microsoft employee committed suicide by jumping out the window (a month ago).Feb 20 20:15
schestowitzConficker Worm Gets an Evil Twin < >Feb 20 20:15
schestowitzWill Microsoft offer $250,000 for another person's head ;-)Feb 20 20:15
schestowitzAnalyst: HP Results Bad News for Microsoft < >Feb 20 20:15
schestowitz (The ugly side of Apple)Feb 20 20:15
schestowitz ( Windows 7 fast track alarms technical testers )...... schnell schnell! Never mind if the clusterfsck is filled with bugs still.Feb 20 20:16
schestowitz 20 20:19
schestowitzVista7... killed by a pack of koalas??Feb 20 20:19
amd-linuxGlyn Moody - I recently discovered that he is THE Glyn Moody who wrote "The Software Rebels"..... was not aware of this, have his book, very good read, I can only recommend itFeb 20 20:22
schestowitzBroken Windows: 20 20:23
trmancowhat is this? -> some kind of a joke?Feb 20 20:23
schestowitzamd-linux: Moody and I are very much alike in our opinions and convictions. That's why I read him,Feb 20 20:24
schestowitztrmanco: *everything* Microsoft does these days is a joke... thing like search briberyFeb 20 20:25
trmancololFeb 20 20:26
schestowitztrmanco: just seen it. Would rather not give it visibility... it's kind of viralFeb 20 20:26
amd-linuxI hope MS gets rid of Ballmer and his clique soonFeb 20 20:26
trmancoyeah, sort ofFeb 20 20:26
schestowitzI still wonder if that Release7Now campaign (can't recall exact name) is Microsoft guerrilla marketing. They do this all the time.Feb 20 20:26
amd-linuxhe is a "cold-war warrior" wr to FOSSFeb 20 20:26
schestowitzamd-linux: they'll be screwed without himFeb 20 20:27
schestowitzThey rely on being bulliesFeb 20 20:27
MinceRno need to get rid of ballmer, m$ is m$ under any leadershipFeb 20 20:27
MinceRthey simply need to dieFeb 20 20:27
schestowitzThey have PR 'fronts' like Ramji and OzzieFeb 20 20:27
amd-linuxMS is too big, to important - imagine the investments of many pension funds in MSFeb 20 20:27
schestowitzBallmer is actually good for MicrosoftFeb 20 20:27
amd-linuxthat alone will prevent that the US let them dieFeb 20 20:27
MinceRthen the US will have to die tooFeb 20 20:28
amd-linuxwhy is he good? he is running them into the ground, everybody can see this?Feb 20 20:28
schestowitzAn academic friend of mine has watched this industry for decade and he theorises that Gates stepped down after Microsoft had lost $18bn in 1998. He left Ballmer to just squeeze any penny that's left in the pyramid schemeFeb 20 20:28
schestowitzSo Ballmer cared only about quick profits, nothing else.Feb 20 20:28
amd-linuxhe is a fanatic, but on the dark side - he is maybe too proud to admit that he is wrong, dead wrongFeb 20 20:28
MinceRwhat's running them into the ground is that they haven't ever come up with a single usable product during their existenceFeb 20 20:29
amd-linuxObjection - I have a notebook mouse from MS that actually works well :-)Feb 20 20:29
MinceRnotebook mice are pointlessFeb 20 20:29
schestowitzMinceR: It's not good, eitherFeb 20 20:29
MinceRif a notebook can fit in your bag, why can't a normal mouse?Feb 20 20:29
schestowitzThe US is probably the most dangerous country in thw world, bar noneFeb 20 20:30
schestowitzNot my opinion BTWFeb 20 20:30
MinceRindeedFeb 20 20:30
schestowitzSurveys in the EU indicates that the US is the "biggest threat to world peace"Feb 20 20:30
schestowitzI kid hyou notFeb 20 20:30
schestowitzI found it hard to believe tooFeb 20 20:30
MinceRi find it easy to believeFeb 20 20:30
amd-linuxI can confirm this sentimentFeb 20 20:30
schestowitzSo as Dow Jones descends almost below 7000 now, they can get more aggressive, like MSFTFeb 20 20:30
MinceRthey're a big, trigger-happy bully with lots of "allies"Feb 20 20:30
amd-linuxthe US need to take what is going on in Mid East - sooner or later a desperate terroristFeb 20 20:31
schestowitzamd-linux: didn't they just buy a company for peripherals?Feb 20 20:31
schestowitzIt's a logo-sticking strtegyFeb 20 20:31
MinceRand they're the agent of a lot of unscrupulous businesses to enforce laws over the world that are only good for those businessesFeb 20 20:31
schestowitzLike Cisco and Google...Feb 20 20:31
trmanco"A savvy Koala knows that the best way to conserve energy is to goFeb 20 20:31
trmancoto sleep, and these days even servers can suspend and resume, so imagineFeb 20 20:31
trmancoif we could make it possible to build a cloud computing facility thatFeb 20 20:31
trmancodrops its energy use virtually to zero by napping in the midday heat,Feb 20 20:31
trmancoand waking up when there's work to be done. No need to drink at theFeb 20 20:31
trmancoenergy fountain when there's nothing going on. If we get all of thisFeb 20 20:32
trmancoright, our Koala will help take the edge off the bear market.Feb 20 20:32
trmanco"Feb 20 20:32
schestowitzGoogle too is just buying anything it can (except SE) and then slaps "G" onto thenmFeb 20 20:32
trmancoHow about this, ?Feb 20 20:32
amd-linuxMS? Dont know. I just know that they were once famous for mice and keyboards which seemed to be good quality in opposite to their softwareFeb 20 20:32
schestowitzDoes Shuttleworth call Ballmer a "bear"Feb 20 20:33
schestowitzOr is it a naked (bear) market?Feb 20 20:33
amd-linuxBTW I still wonder why Google did not buy Dropbox and Steam.... they would perfectly fitFeb 20 20:33
MinceRwhy can't people just buy logitech? :>Feb 20 20:33
amd-linuxin their portfolio, and Dropbox would make the G-Drive a reality, finallyFeb 20 20:33
schestowitzGoogle h/w?Feb 20 20:34
schestowitzThat would be odd.Feb 20 20:34
schestowitzMisfit..Feb 20 20:34
trmancoSteam? no wayFeb 20 20:34
schestowitzMicrosoft was able to make peripherals Windows-only or favourable to Windows.Feb 20 20:34
schestowitzWhere the gain/intergration to Google?Feb 20 20:34
schestowitzVista7 is steamFeb 20 20:35
schestowitzSteamwareFeb 20 20:35
schestowitzIt really steams tooFeb 20 20:35
amd-linuxDropbox? Platform agnostic cloud storage - beautifulFeb 20 20:35
amd-linuxDropbox is a virtual drive that connects with different filemanagers (Nautilus i.e.)Feb 20 20:36
amd-linuxand syncs your files automaticallyFeb 20 20:36
amd-linuxexactly what G-Drive is expected to do....Feb 20 20:36
schestowitzI already have my two 'dropboxes' right here (for backup)... I keep my data where I live, away from the nice chaps < >Feb 20 20:36
MinceRi prefer real drives to virtual ones :>Feb 20 20:37
trmancolooolFeb 20 20:37
trmancothey are all realFeb 20 20:37
schestowitzUntil....Feb 20 20:37
schestowitzLike MS DRM...Feb 20 20:37
schestowitzIt just popsFeb 20 20:37
amd-linuxthe drives are real - just not under your desk but somewhere else :-)Feb 20 20:37
schestowitz"We are sorry to inform you....... blah blah'Feb 20 20:37
MinceRi prefer to keep mine on my deskFeb 20 20:38
trmancoyou can actually touch your data if you gain physical access to the hard drives :-PFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzWerb hosting and mail are differentFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzBecause of uptimeFeb 20 20:38
trmancoma.gnolia crapped outFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzYou need someone to handle them with care all the timeFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzBackup is less time-criticalFeb 20 20:38
MinceRi am someoneFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzWhat if you are on holiday?Feb 20 20:38
MinceRand i care more about my own data than all the companies in the world togetherFeb 20 20:38
schestowitzOr there is a power failure?Feb 20 20:39
MinceRi don't need to do backups on holidayFeb 20 20:39
schestowitzYesFeb 20 20:39
amd-linuxI also would not trust wr to my confidential data, but for the daily stuff this seems convenient, at least for meFeb 20 20:39
schestowitzMinceR: I was referring to hostingFeb 20 20:39
MinceRoh.Feb 20 20:39
schestowitzMinceR: we talked about different thingsFeb 20 20:39
schestowitzLike in satiresFeb 20 20:39
MinceRwell, i'd rather control that myself tooFeb 20 20:39
amd-linuxloolFeb 20 20:39
MinceRthat way i can solve any issues instantlyFeb 20 20:39
schestowitzMinceR: trade-offFeb 20 20:39
schestowitzYou could also grow your own foodFeb 20 20:40
MinceRi could if i had the tech to make it low-maintenanceFeb 20 20:40
schestowitzBut it's more efficient to certalise some operations like hosting and datacentres(ralisation)Feb 20 20:40
MinceRlike my storage :>Feb 20 20:40
*amd-linux has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Feb 20 20:41
MinceRin fact, with tech that's advanced enough, i wouldn't even need food at allFeb 20 20:41
MinceR:>Feb 20 20:41
*amd-linux (i=584186d9@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 20:41
trmancow00tFeb 20 20:42
trmancothat just reminded me of something funny (food)Feb 20 20:42
schestowitzNo comment: 20 20:43
schestowitzIt looks like a monitorFeb 20 20:43
trmanco -> click the start button and try ordering some foodFeb 20 20:44
amd-linuxnice :-)Feb 20 20:47
*schestowitz realises the same song has been playing in a loop for 5 hours !!Feb 20 20:48
*schestowitz changes track to prevent headacheFeb 20 20:48
trmancolooolFeb 20 20:49
*NeonFloss ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 20:49
amd-linuxvery good, good link :-)Feb 20 20:49
PetoKrauslink of the day :DFeb 20 20:50
*PetoKraus np: Pink Floyd - Echoes (Meddle)Feb 20 20:50
schestowitztrmanco: heheFeb 20 20:50
schestowitztrmanco: this is strange for the wrong reasonFeb 20 20:50
schestowitzI haven't done a Windows like GUI for yearsFeb 20 20:50
trmancoI looks like KDEFeb 20 20:51
trmanco:-PFeb 20 20:51
schestowitzNot mineFeb 20 20:51
schestowitz 20 20:51
trmancojust with a bunch of bloat and "red" lipstickFeb 20 20:51
trmancohmm, your task bar is on the right side, interestingFeb 20 20:52
schestowitzAero-lipstickFeb 20 20:52
schestowitzA man walks into a bar and says to the pig, "You can put Aero on a pig.."Feb 20 20:52
MinceR...but it will still be slow, unreliable and incompatible.Feb 20 20:53
MinceR;)Feb 20 20:53
trmancopigs are too small, think biggerFeb 20 20:53
schestowitztrmanco: no taskbar there.Feb 20 20:53
trmancothey really put in a lot of lipstickFeb 20 20:53
schestowitzThe taskbar is autohidden on top and I never use itFeb 20 20:53
trmancothan what do you call that right bar?Feb 20 20:53
trmancoquick launch :-PFeb 20 20:53
schestowitzI use awn and assign apps to different desktops, then swilriling 'inside the cube with F[1-8]Feb 20 20:53
schestowitz*swirlingFeb 20 20:54
MinceR215908 <&Eiseg> did you know if you watch the Movie "Jaws" backwards, it's a movie about a shark that keeps throwing people up until they have toFeb 20 20:54
MinceR                open a beach?Feb 20 20:54
schestowitztrmanco: mixer, system monitor, menuFeb 20 20:54
*amd-linux has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Feb 20 20:54
trmancoahh, okFeb 20 20:54
schestowitzKlipper is there tooFeb 20 20:54
schestowitzMinceR: source?Feb 20 20:55
MinceROtherWorlders/#game-designFeb 20 20:55
schestowitzMinceR: Did you see the move "release of Vista"? It's about a gremlin that escapes the cell before it's ready for release and applying at immigration for a name change to "RTM"Feb 20 20:56
MinceRlolFeb 20 20:56
MinceRRTM?Feb 20 20:56
schestowitzVista was made in Puerto RicoFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzPoor working conditionsFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzCVheapFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzLong hoursFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzThat's where it was manufacturedFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzVista 7 is engineered in IndiaFeb 20 20:57
schestowitzI don't know where they'll make copies of it (other than torrent of that BetaVista7)Feb 20 20:57
schestowitzVista7... when Microsoft went so low... low enough to disribute through Pirate Bay.Feb 20 20:58
schestowitzNext thing you know they'll release Win7.0.1 that goes to the side alley for a quickieFeb 20 20:58
MinceRengineered?Feb 20 20:59
schestowitzVista 7puts the "tras"h in trash-y Vista :-DFeb 20 20:59
schestowitzWell, wrong word.Feb 20 20:59
schestowitzBarfed?Feb 20 20:59
schestowitzEmitted?Feb 20 20:59
MinceRcloserFeb 20 20:59
MinceRshatFeb 20 20:59
MinceRvomitedFeb 20 20:59
schestowitz"Microsoft India centre working on Windows 7 [...] "Designers and engineers at Microsoft R&D centre in India have a new mandate for development of Windows 7, the next generation operating system from  Microsoft Corporation, slated for release in 2009-10. " 20 21:00
schestowitzDon't worry.Feb 20 21:00
schestowitzMicrrosoft will tell us that it's because Americans are stupidFeb 20 21:00
schestowitzBilly and Abramoff will explain this to US congressFeb 20 21:01
schestowitz"As many as 5,000 employees are being shown the door at Microsoft, which uses more H1-B guest-worker visas than any other U.S. company. Some employees and politicians say Microsoft should get rid of foreigners first""Feb 20 21:01
schestowitzNovell is shafting EU-based staff. You'll see next week (again)Feb 20 21:02
schestowitzThey expand in India too... globalisation and all... more hours, less benefits, etc etc.Feb 20 21:02
schestowitzStupid Apple! "Whereas the OpenDocument standards are well-documented, xml-based, platform-independent and reasonably mature. So, I'm not sure why Apple wants to reinvent the wheel with their own proprietary document formats (though I have a theory, see below)." 20 21:07
MinceRthat's easy to tell: lock-in.Feb 20 21:07
schestowitzWhat do Ballmer and Jobs have in common (other than a first name)?Feb 20 21:10
MinceRthey're both megalomaniac sociopathsFeb 20 21:12
MinceRand worshipped by countless clueless idiotsFeb 20 21:12
schestowitzI can't find the picture of jobs and ballmer with chainsFeb 20 21:13
schestowitzIt's to do with lock-inFeb 20 21:13
schestowitzIt took a Hollywood and showed Ballmer chained by Job. VERY funny.Feb 20 21:13
schestowitzI can't find it, I give up. Image search is hardFeb 20 21:14
schestowitzBut this one's something too: 20 21:14
schestowitzMasnick is /brilliant/. He too found that BBC article I brought here yesterday to be utterly stupid... "Social Networking Will Kill You... Or Maybe Not" < > so using a compute = "social networking" nowFeb 20 21:16
schestowitzMAFIAA defenders see album leaked: 20 21:17
schestowitzI like his articles, but he's using bad words. I asked him put 'scare quote' around "piracy". he reinforces propaganda vocabulary of the RIAA/MPAA. This is not crime at high seas..Feb 20 21:21
schestowitzhaha. "Student Arrested For Classroom Texting Wisconsin girl, 14, nabbed after refusing to stop messaging" < >Feb 20 21:22
schestowitzPedagogic Talibans...Feb 20 21:22
schestowitzShe has a police record now.. a gal that's only 14... for texting at class :-)Feb 20 21:23
schestowitzBallmer and Microsoft bribes.. OK. No problem there with white-collar crime... because the police is busy detaining little girlsFeb 20 21:24
*Casperin ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 21:37
schestowitz..I'm trying to pressure site to stop saying "open source". It's about Free software, not Open Source. Open source means all sort of things these days, including wine, energy, even sex. When open source mixes with software patents and DRM, then it's time to remember what it's all about (not just a marketing ploy).Feb 20 21:38
schestowitzAnother issue: The proposition of fighting fire with fire has become quite commonplace. I was appalled to see the Linux Foundation, for example, paying the deceptive forces of IDC for some made-up numbers in order to promote themselves.Feb 20 21:38
schestowitzFree/open source software is partly to do with curing ills, not embracing the very same art of marketing/PR (i.e. imposed deception and spin) to our advantage. What's left is educating the public about how to interpret signals (e.g. fashionable consumption as way of life), which may prove hard because of how children are raised. If only more sites did good, not did 'busine$$'...Feb 20 21:39
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schestowitzBN just been cited in CNET Feb 20 21:47
schestowitzNovell has just acquired a proprietary asset (while sacking its Linux devs)Feb 20 21:51
schestowitzNovell advertises a lot in IDG this week... non-Free software.Feb 20 21:59
*twitter has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Feb 20 22:07
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 22:09
schestowitzI hear that Ron Hovsepian's had an internal memo really bugged someoneFeb 20 22:36
schestowitzI wonder what it said.Feb 20 22:36
schestowitzThe layoffs will come next week. And I hear that "Even if they didn't lay off 25% of their work force, they did lay off 20% of their OpenSUSE team.  What does that say about the company's priorities?" I hear the real number may be 20% (overall). I checked  my source and it's really authentic, not a forger.Feb 20 22:37
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 22:45
*Balrog ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 20 22:55
BalrogHey...they found another 'solution' for video captureFeb 20 22:55
Balrogbut it's also based on MS silverlight D:Feb 20 22:55
Balroganyways, I'll be around laterFeb 20 22:55
schestowitz:-(Feb 20 23:05
schestowitzSilver Lie..Feb 20 23:05
schestowitzI was just doing a post about it.Feb 20 23:05
schestowitzSource re: Novell's latest buyout: "That's interesting, but I _suspect_ they'll have bigger stuff to announce.  What the heck, I'll post a speculative piece [..] on what I suspect is in the works."Feb 20 23:05
schestowitzBig news coming fro   Novell soon. Can you feel it?Feb 20 23:06
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twitterVista, can also spell Stavi.  I thought it sounded cool, like fake Russian or something. 20 23:23
twitterfirst hit is visually impaired people.Feb 20 23:23
twitterBlind.  Appropriate but nothing to make fun with.Feb 20 23:24
schestowitz"Stavi Ballmer.. don't press ze button..." 20 23:24
twitterSomething crawling up on you, 20 23:25
twitterspecifically, 20 23:25
schestowitzThe nice thing about MIB is that if you link to an image in IRC, then it renders an image in the Web-based IRC clientFeb 20 23:25
schestowitzXchat just displays a URL, not a thumbnail.Feb 20 23:26
twitterthat might be nice ....Feb 20 23:26
*mib_j4l3v6 has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Feb 20 23:28
twitter"I was appalled to see the Linux Foundation, for example, paying the deceptive forces of IDC for some made-up numbers in order to promote themselves."  Oh, now that's bad if they really did it.  Lies discredit, they never help.Feb 20 23:31
schestowitzSearch BN for it... I wrote a lot about it with the details. They even hire the anti-Linux henchman, Al GillenFeb 20 23:34
schestowitzIDC is about the manufacturing of 'adverts' to clients, custom-tailored based on needsFeb 20 23:36
benJImanHeh at recent linuxhaters post.Feb 20 23:38
oiaohmThat idea of drawing a eye path on the gui is a good one.Feb 20 23:42
schestowitzNot a new one..?Feb 20 23:43
oiaohmThe way he did it.Feb 20 23:43
oiaohmHand drawn on.Feb 20 23:43
oiaohmYes there is a new Linuxhater post anti SUSE.Feb 20 23:45
oiaohmSometimes the haters do come up with good thing for development by there actions.Feb 20 23:47
oiaohmOk there pure hate out wieghs it most of the time.Feb 20 23:47
benJIman <- We might actually start to be able to migrate .net hosting from windows to linux soon \o/Feb 20 23:49
oiaohmIts still why be running .net sites in the first place.Feb 20 23:50
schestowitztwitter: your picture here: 20 23:50
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, exactly.Feb 20 23:51
oiaohmIts not like php is a poor releation.   It the most dominate web platform.Feb 20 23:51
Balrogyeah, SL sucks.Feb 20 23:52
oiaohmAlso php does not suffer from Windows updates to .net stuffing up browser compadiblity.Feb 20 23:52
Balrogdoesn't even do x-platform a lotFeb 20 23:52
oiaohmSecound life internally does not run .netFeb 20 23:53
oiaohmOnly the clone of it does.Feb 20 23:53
Balrogwell, unfortunately, it sucks to rewrite all that .net code into PHP or one of the alternativesFeb 20 23:53
oiaohmSo days of asp2php is needed again.Feb 20 23:53
oiaohmMajor reason why hosters like php over .net is they can audit it themself simply.Feb 20 23:54
Balrogyeah. Someone I know said ....Feb 20 23:55
Balrog"again, try code maintenance with .net first..... its a developer's dream man"Feb 20 23:55
oiaohmAuditFeb 20 23:55
oiaohmNot code maintenance.Feb 20 23:55
Balrogand "try web development in both php and and then get back to me on what's easier or better for interoperability"Feb 20 23:56
Balrogit was a facebook convo so don't worry about that linkFeb 20 23:56
Balrogin any case, the better sites I see use php or some other open platformFeb 20 23:56
schestowitz*LOL* "Subject: my letter to suse community [...] Dear Suse Community,Feb 20 23:56
schestowitzPlease get out of there as soon as possible.Feb 20 23:56
schestowitzThank you very much,Feb 20 23:56
schestowitzA Linux user. "Feb 20 23:56
Balrogschestowitz: where?Feb 20 23:57
schestowitzSource: 20 23:57
oiaohmProblem is I have used ASP.netFeb 20 23:57
schestowitzHere is the LunuxHaters post, "Just let it die, please" < >Feb 20 23:57
oiaohmI am back on PHP becuase its simpler.Feb 20 23:58
Balrogoiaohm: is better for interoperability or easierFeb 20 23:58
oiaohmAmmount of prebuilt code of PHP is insane.Feb 20 23:58
Balrog?Feb 20 23:58
BalrogI don't think so....?Feb 20 23:58
oiaohminteroperablity with what.Feb 20 23:58
oiaohmAgain.Feb 20 23:58
Balrogbrowsers, I guess.Feb 20 23:59
oiaohmIf you want interoperablity with every web browser out there.Feb 20 23:59
oiaohmYou need direct control of what is sent to the browser from time to time.Feb 20 23:59
Balrogthough I'd dispute that.Feb 20 23:59
oiaohmPHP provides that.Feb 20 23:59
oiaohmWith out it new browser released something broken you cannot fix.Feb 20 23:59

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