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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 10th, 2009 - Part 3


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Omar87schestowitz: What is the material?Apr 10 17:21
schestowitzOmar87: Here's one way to see it (a guy from FFII taught me this): why get angry over Microsoft's crimes? The more it does, the more trouble it may get into. It also serves as a bigger lesson about corruption out there... so there is educational value.Apr 10 17:22
schestowitzOmar87: by "give" I meant did bad things that people can write aboutApr 10 17:22
schestowitzSpeaking of GNote, there's this in the news: "Now, there are many free applications out there already, like Gmote. Gmote is a cool app that turns your phone into a remote control for your computer. Is this useful? You tell me. But it sure is nifty." 10 17:23
trmancogmote?Apr 10 17:23
trmancoah thatApr 10 17:24
schestowitzDidn't even heard about itApr 10 17:25
schestowitzI wrote about GNode thoughApr 10 17:25
schestowitzSounds like a GTK port of KNode..Apr 10 17:25
trmancothat would be interestingApr 10 17:27
schestowitzBN not in front page of Linux TodayApr 10 17:27
schestowitzEpic(tm) Fail. (The Future Of UT3 On Linux Appears Uncertain)Apr 10 17:39 is misbehaving todayApr 10 17:39
schestowitz (Canonical disputes Microsoft netbook claims) Funny how Microsoft employees magically find NPD's numbers. Who paid NPD to count units?Apr 10 17:42
trmancoschestowitz, gwibber:read/8Apr 10 17:51
trmancooh crapApr 10 17:51
trmanco 10 17:51
trmancoslap them :-PApr 10 17:52
schestowitz"pingfmApr 10 17:55
schestowitzDoing various updates today. If you notice any weirdness, just slap us."Apr 10 17:55
schestowitzThanks, that explains it. I wish it said so in their Web sites. I spent time thinking I had something improperly set at my end.Apr 10 17:55
trmanco:-pApr 10 17:55
schestowitz "[PJ: The Newspaper Association of America has chosen to make audio of his comments available only to those who use Microsoft software, I see.]"Apr 10 17:59
trmanco...Apr 10 17:59
schestowitzThat's the US... got to force people to use WIndows or boot into it. Butetrs.Apr 10 17:59
schestowitzGroklaw hardly covers Linux nowApr 10 18:00
trmancothe stream worksApr 10 18:00
schestowitzJust copyright, law stuff, and some about Microsoft...Apr 10 18:00
schestowitztrmanco: I didn't tryApr 10 18:00
trmancobut it's an asxApr 10 18:00
schestowitzMaybe it requires patentsApr 10 18:00
schestowitztrmanco: see 10 18:05
schestowitzThe site that just copies all posts from BN is not being indexed, which is good. It keeps showing up in people's trackbacks, which may make it look bad.Apr 10 18:05
trmancoschestowitz, it will be indexed -> <meta name="robots" content="follow, all" />Apr 10 18:07
trmancoit's just a matter of time, the spammy site is recentApr 10 18:07
schestowitzResearchers say Conficker is all about the money < >Apr 10 18:09
schestowitztrmanco: not if no-one links to thisApr 10 18:10
schestowitzLet me give an example.Apr 10 18:10
trmancopeople might link to it in trackbacksApr 10 18:10
schestowitz If you scroll down to trackback you'll see a BN reference, but also two mirrors that don't exactly belong there.Apr 10 18:10
schestowitzOne of them if a botblog that echoes posts of mine from USENET and another is a site 'stealing' all posts from BN.Apr 10 18:11
schestowitzI don't mind the person using my posts from USENET (credit/attribution would be nice), but the latter may make it seem like I have something to do with those site, but I don't. I just do BNApr 10 18:11
schestowitzThis is just one example, but this Russian scraper that takes all posts from BN is throwing pings at blogs I link to.Apr 10 18:12
schestowitzGroklaw credits BN today :-)Apr 10 18:14
schestowitztrmanco: Portugal is the 15th country for BN readership, which is interesting because of the size of the population.Apr 10 18:17
schestowitzThe site did almost 5GB in the past 12 hours, despite Easter :-oApr 10 18:18
trmancothat's greatApr 10 18:18
schestowitzI don't use supercache yetApr 10 18:18
schestowitzI don't know what it does better. Just putting "super" in it doesn't mean muchApr 10 18:18
schestowitzIt's a marketing term like "ultimate" Apr 10 18:18
schestowitz"Retailers will come around in time. The faster ones will be the ones that will publish the good/better numbers for Linux. These will be the ones sitting pretty tomorrow." < >Apr 10 18:24
schestowitzNice Linux site/comic......... 10 18:26
schestowitz ( looks great on desktop Linux) <---"Good riddance to bad rubbish!" saysKeith Elster Apr 10 18:28
schestowitzKDE4 is just so gorgeous (and now a lot more mature): 10 18:35
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EruaranI love polishlinux's early reviewsApr 10 18:37
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schestowitzEruaran: he just hosts it thereApr 10 18:37
schestowitzIt's not very responsive nowApr 10 18:37
schestowitzMaybe Digg effect or somethingApr 10 18:37
EruaranOne of 4.3's new desktop activity settings is "black board"... sounds interestingApr 10 18:42
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schestowitzEruaran: you should see comments on Migi's activityApr 10 18:43
schestowitzcomments in LinuxToday: 10 18:44
schestowitzHe's becoming a pR disaster to Novell and GNOME IMHOApr 10 18:44
schestowitzOops. just fell overApr 10 18:44
Eruaranyeah I read Miguel's 'Embrace and Extending.NET' crapApr 10 18:45
schestowitzWho embraces who?Apr 10 18:47
schestowitzYeah, little Migi will f*kill MSApr 10 18:47
schestowitzHe's embrace and extend themApr 10 18:47
schestowitzNever mind if they invite him to conferencesApr 10 18:47
schestowitzHere's the thingApr 10 18:47
schestowitzLinux might need samba for commsApr 10 18:47
Eruaranthose guys are more on the nose than those smelly flowers on a David Attenborough docoApr 10 18:47
schestowitzBut when it comes to PLs and framworks, Linux is independentApr 10 18:47
schestowitzJava, PHP, Apahce....Apr 10 18:48
schestowitzMiguel is trying to push people away from all that .... into MicrosoftApr 10 18:48
schestowitzWho benefits?Apr 10 18:48
schestowitzMicrosoftApr 10 18:48
schestowitzAnd the guy who went for a job interview there in 2998Apr 10 18:48
schestowitz*1998Apr 10 18:48
Eruaran"Kopete can now communicate with Skype users" - this is a nice little developmentApr 10 18:49
schestowitzPearlyG (Gates) is busy getting patents for his patent trolling firm: 10 18:50
schestowitzI thought Pearlyu hated atentsApr 10 18:54
schestowitzHe said soApr 10 18:54
schestowitzThe industry would be at a standstillApr 10 18:54
EruaranPearlyG is an opportunist without principlesApr 10 18:55
EruaranThats how he made so much moneyApr 10 18:55
amd-linuxGates is just greedy - he always was and with age it got worseApr 10 18:55
Eruaran"its no trick to make a lot of money" - Citizen KaneApr 10 18:55
amd-linuxother people get mild and benevolent when agingApr 10 18:55
amd-linuxnot gatesApr 10 18:56
schestowitzamd-linux: "and with age it got worse" Yes, because health goes awayApr 10 18:59
EruaranWhy the hell are they even talking about porting from Python to Mono ?Apr 10 19:00
schestowitzEruaran: mindshareApr 10 19:00
schestowitzMaking the Mono camp strongerApr 10 19:00
schestowitzThey have Microsoft employees helping, you know?Apr 10 19:00
Eruaranmy god these scumbags suckApr 10 19:00
schestowitzFormer onesApr 10 19:00
schestowitzWho program 'open' source with MonoApr 10 19:00
schestowitzOne guy used to lurk in this channel -- 'CJ'Apr 10 19:01
schestowitzCollier somethingApr 10 19:01
schestowitzHe works for MicrosoftApr 10 19:01
schestowitzHe helps MonoApr 10 19:01
schestowitzHe's attributed in the Mono homepageApr 10 19:01
EruaranMy prediction is that GNOME 3.0 will end up being a complete pile of shitApr 10 19:01
schestowitzEruaran: I'd rather save GNOME and defend itApr 10 19:01
EruaranAnd it will be the Mono crowd responsibleApr 10 19:01
schestowitzI'd rather see Vista7 for the POS it isApr 10 19:01
EruaransameApr 10 19:02
schestowitzWhen some women with 3 kids and a Celeron puts it onApr 10 19:02
EruaranBut these guys just seem to keep weasling in thereApr 10 19:02
schestowitzWasting $200 on buggy bloated rubbishApr 10 19:02
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schestowitz*woman (or man)Apr 10 19:02
Eruaranthis week I talked a woman out of buying a Lenovo mini desktop thingApr 10 19:02
schestowitzJust some scenario I have in mind because mothers are rarely hardcore gamers with GPUs and multi-core boardsApr 10 19:03
schestowitzYuck. LenovoApr 10 19:03
EruaranIt was a Pentium D (yikes !) and the shop they were buying from were gonna put Vista on itApr 10 19:03
schestowitzIBM gave them Thinkpd.Apr 10 19:03
schestowitzRecently they hired Microsoft executivesApr 10 19:03
schestowitzThey turn into a MS droneApr 10 19:03
schestowitzThey don't sell Red Hat in some modelsApr 10 19:03
schestowitzJust BallnuxApr 10 19:03
schestowitzNovell=good; Red Hat=what's daat??Apr 10 19:03
EruaranMicrosoft = industry wide cancerApr 10 19:04
schestowitzBTW I saw your comment in IDG sitesApr 10 19:04
schestowitzPCWorld IIRCApr 10 19:04
schestowitzslamming the .NET boostersApr 10 19:04
EruaranWhich one ? :PApr 10 19:04
schestowitzCan't eememberApr 10 19:04
balzac-_^Apr 10 19:05
EruaranI just spit those out and forget about what I postedApr 10 19:05
schestowitzMy Boss, with a little help, starts the conversion to Linux < >Apr 10 19:05
schestowitz"DING DING DING Linux is gonna be installed." http://linuxfreedom-technoshaun.blogsp...Apr 10 19:06
schestowitzEruaran: I 'spat' a lot at DiggApr 10 19:07
schestowitzMany quick comments, about 14,000Apr 10 19:07
EruaranhehApr 10 19:07
schestowitzBut I hardly visit Digg anymore. Others quit it too.Apr 10 19:07
EruaranSometimes I read something and I just have to comment then and thereApr 10 19:07
EruaranDigg is worse than /.Apr 10 19:08
schestowitzMy 3000 'fans' down the drainApr 10 19:08
schestowitzThe thing is, people boast about follower in twitter, Digg, etc.Apr 10 19:08
schestowitzBut these are not portableApr 10 19:08
schestowitzSo once you leave the site you can't take your audience with you. Behold the CLOUD! Gah!Apr 10 19:09
Eruaranhmm ClamAV nabs ConfickerApr 10 19:10
EruaranI didn't know that... not that I'd actually looked into itApr 10 19:10
schestowitzAnother Reason Why FAT32 / VFAT Needs to Die < >Apr 10 19:12
Eruarancant believe some of the comments on gnome-zeitgeistApr 10 19:15
Eruaran"please port to mono"Apr 10 19:15
Eruaranthey sound like gay men getting all excited at a mardi grasApr 10 19:15
EruaranAnd those who object are ignoredApr 10 19:15
EruaranThis is why Gnome is screwed unless its forked I thinkApr 10 19:16
EruaranI really do think unless there is a concerted effort to rescue GNOME it is destined to become roadkill on highway MicrosoftApr 10 19:17
schestowitzOh cr*, I forgot to post the stats to WordPress mailing listsApr 10 19:17
schestowitzEruaran: not reallyApr 10 19:18
schestowitzIf there was a weak GNOME they would gang up on KDEApr 10 19:18
schestowitzA lecturer I know reckons that Microsoft has enough lackeys in its pouchApr 10 19:18
MinceRGnome is screwed as long as they insist on copying osx.Apr 10 19:18
schestowitzWhen companies can't compete but have resources then they invest in derailing rivalsApr 10 19:19
EruaranI think once Microsoft feel they've achived their goals with GNOME they'll work much harder on KDEApr 10 19:19
schestowitzThere are many ways to do thisApr 10 19:19
schestowitzPaying for flight tickets (Mass. to Remind) for Senor de Icaza is slush fundsApr 10 19:19
schestowitzMicrosoft may have alrwady lost $1 billion due to linux sub-notebooksApr 10 19:19
schestowitzThat's the estimateApr 10 19:19
schestowitzWas Half a billion several months agoApr 10 19:19
schestowitzIt cannibalizes Windows that actually costs somethingApr 10 19:20
EruaranLets hope they keep bleeding cashApr 10 19:20
schestowitzNow they recruit NPD to demoralise the 'enemy'Apr 10 19:20
schestowitzttp:// 2008/08/comes-3096.pdf "Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry." --MSApr 10 19:20
EruaranI'd rather see GNU/Linux have several cutting edge competitive DE's... I'm against homogenizationApr 10 19:21
EruaranEven though I'm personally a self confessed KDE fanboyApr 10 19:21
Eruaran;)Apr 10 19:21
schestowitzI'll add a comment: "[better later than never. Happy Easter/spring, everybody. Happy hacking.]"Apr 10 19:23
EruaranSome people are pleading not to port to MonoApr 10 19:25
EruaranPython or Vala but no to MonoApr 10 19:26
EruaranThese guys just keep spouting Mono and ignoring themApr 10 19:26
Eruaranthis guy disgusts meApr 10 19:27
Eruaranthe only response I've seen him give is that nobody has given him "good reasons" not to use MonoApr 10 19:27
EruaranThere's like 10 people jumping up and down giving him good reasons !Apr 10 19:28
EruaranidiotApr 10 19:28
Eruaranthis guy has his fingers shoved as deeply in his own ears with SweatyB tickling his privates just as much as senior de IcazaApr 10 19:28
EruaranokApr 10 19:32
Eruaranbecause of all the concerns and protestsApr 10 19:32
Eruaranthey've said they're staying with PythonApr 10 19:32
schestowitzYeah...Apr 10 19:32
schestowitzWell, I just lagged..Apr 10 19:32
Eruaranbut...Apr 10 19:32
schestowitzCause I sent a reponseApr 10 19:32
Eruaranhe's still mentioning mono in every postApr 10 19:33
schestowitzRelating to some things you told me about Express gateApr 10 19:33
Eruaranyes /Apr 10 19:33
Eruaran?Apr 10 19:33
schestowitzEruaran: maybe you can help with this: 10 19:33
schestowitzWe need more leaks/proofApr 10 19:33
EruaranExpress DisgraceApr 10 19:33
schestowitzThat Microsoft manipulated OEMs,w hcih it obviously doesApr 10 19:33
schestowitzBut I need strong proof here.Apr 10 19:33
schestowitzSomething to go under the banner of Microsoft muscles OEMs to drop Windows competitoonApr 10 19:34
EruaranI could have a chat with the Asus repApr 10 19:34
schestowitzWords from Microsoft would be ideaApr 10 19:34
schestowitzWords from Microsoft would be idealApr 10 19:34
schestowitzBut I only have ASUS' wordsApr 10 19:34
schestowitzThey wrapped up Acer's CEO tooApr 10 19:34
schestowitzAfter he slammed VIsta on behalf of the industryApr 10 19:34
schestowitzThey bribes IDC et al to praise Vista7Apr 10 19:35
schestowitzAnd now they give free XP with promises of Vista7 heavenApr 10 19:35
schestowitzAnd they also use IDG and NPD to deliiver lies: 96% thing...Apr 10 19:35
schestowitz"The market 'chose' Windows'Apr 10 19:35
schestowitz[because we gave buyers no choice... SHEESH]Apr 10 19:35
EruaranyesApr 10 19:36
schestowitzWell, you can't fight cartels gentlyApr 10 19:37
EruaranThe only direct correspondance I ever have with Microsoft usually has obscene words in itApr 10 19:37
schestowitzSome people may call BN 'abrasive'Apr 10 19:37
schestowitzBut what would they expect when companies that are convicted as CRIMINALS in Germany right now are involved?Apr 10 19:37
EruaranI could share stuffApr 10 19:37
schestowitzOoh Ooh :-) :-) Let's be gentle on MicrosoftApr 10 19:37
EruaranBut it means exposing what is sent in emailsApr 10 19:37
schestowitzAfter all, it's just suing LinuxApr 10 19:37
schestowitzWhile smailingApr 10 19:37
schestowitz*smiilingApr 10 19:38
schestowitzIt tried to kill ODFApr 10 19:38
schestowitzWhile smilingApr 10 19:38
EruaranI don't think the information itself is a problem, I have to get permission from the recipient firstApr 10 19:38
schestowitzit says Linux has 4% share in sub-notebooks...Apr 10 19:38
schestowitzWhile smiilingApr 10 19:38
schestowitz"We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger." --Jim Allchin, Microsoft's Platform Group Vice PresidentApr 10 19:38
schestowitzRemember they have taskforcesApr 10 19:39
schestowitzIf a shop sells Linux, Microsoft pays it a visitApr 10 19:39
EruaranI think my best chance of getting interesting info is from AsusApr 10 19:39
schestowitzThis comes from its own (leaked) communicationApr 10 19:39
EruaranThey are usually very helpful ;)Apr 10 19:39
schestowitzThey can probably even send the BSA to terrify the companyApr 10 19:39
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schestowitzOr cause it troubleApr 10 19:40
EruaranindeedApr 10 19:40
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schestowitzOr send some patent troll to ISVs who competeApr 10 19:40
EruaranWe are a small groupApr 10 19:40
EruaranThere is a palpable sense that if we say too much there will be retributionApr 10 19:40
schestowitz"How dare they not sell Windows?"Apr 10 19:40
schestowitz"Those bastards" (hypothetical)Apr 10 19:40
schestowitz"How dare they not support the  Windows platform?"Apr 10 19:41
schestowitzSue themApr 10 19:41
schestowitzTrue story BTWApr 10 19:41
EruaranyesApr 10 19:41
schestowitz 10 19:41
schestowitz"“look what znix is doing! cut those fuckers off.” Within three weeks, Microsoft demanded an audit of Z-Nix’s entire business and then commenced a copyright and trademark infringement action. Z-Nix was forced to file for bankruptcy in or around 1995″"Apr 10 19:41
schestowitzMicrosoft is such a nice bunch :-DApr 10 19:42
schestowitzCuddlyApr 10 19:42
EruaranindeedApr 10 19:42
schestowitzI can see what Miguel loves themApr 10 19:42
schestowitzAwwwwwwwwwwwww :-)Apr 10 19:42
schestowitzKDE developments: 10 19:43
EruaranWe promote, sell, and service systems with GNU/Linux without advertising precisely because we know what will happen if we expose ourselvesApr 10 19:43
schestowitzI'm still trying to find a blog enry where Mark Shuttleworth writes "cut those fuckers off" (or something like that...)Apr 10 19:44
EruaranSo you have a situation where we have some Vista poster on the wall for the Microsoft guy and a demo with Linux on it for the real peopleApr 10 19:44
schestowitzMicrosoft #1 bug/motto:  "cut those fuckers off"Apr 10 19:44
schestowitzIOW: destroy competition so that no matter how crappy our OS is, people will have to use it.Apr 10 19:44
EruaranThe general public has no understanding of what is really going onApr 10 19:45
EruaranI like to educate peopleApr 10 19:45
schestowitzLike Omar87 wrote, "people just don't understand"Apr 10 19:46
schestowitzMicrosoft paid a lot of money to keep its crime in a dark boxApr 10 19:46
schestowitzSee Caldera caseApr 10 19:46
schestowitzMicrosoft paid them to destory criminal evidenceApr 10 19:46
schestowitzSome of it might still be out there.Apr 10 19:46
schestowitzEruaran: it's hard to educareApr 10 19:46
schestowitz*educateApr 10 19:46
schestowitzNot just in computersApr 10 19:47
schestowitzPolitics tooApr 10 19:47
EruaranIts not that hard really when people trust you for adviceApr 10 19:47
schestowitzPeople spend too much passively watching TV (getting indoctrinated)Apr 10 19:47
EruaranAnd people like intrigueApr 10 19:47
schestowitzSo even if you change your mind, they get reprorgrammed later ('rtebrainwashed')Apr 10 19:47
EruaranPeople are generally very interested to find out just how Microsoft maintains its monopoly when they didn't know beforeApr 10 19:48
EruaranAnd to hear that there is no free and fair competitionApr 10 19:48
EruaranA few conversations like that and people get itApr 10 19:49
EruaranOne guy said to me one day, "So Microsoft is the Standard Oil of computers then ?"Apr 10 19:49
schestowitz"I’ll talk more about distributions, GNU and some of the other things I’ve referred to in future. For now just try to remember that the word Linux technically means the kernel at the core of the system. However a lot of people use it to refer to their operating system. There’s nothing wrong with that in my eyes but it’s really just a blanket term." 10 19:50
schestowitzAt least some people attribute GNUApr 10 19:50
schestowitzIt's importantApr 10 19:50
EruaranHis reference to Standard Oil showed that he gets itApr 10 19:50
schestowitzLinux Foundation represents businessApr 10 19:50
schestowitzLinux is like a P/L-only geekApr 10 19:50
schestowitzESR does some politics but he's gun nutter and still only business orientedApr 10 19:50
schestowitzSo it's important to correlate GNU and the system people sueApr 10 19:51
schestowitz*useApr 10 19:51
schestowitzEruaran: why insult Standard Oil?Apr 10 19:51
EruaranhehApr 10 19:52
schestowitzGates invests in BPApr 10 19:52
schestowitzHe helps the killing of Nigerian kids: 10 19:52
schestowitzThen, he tells government that he puts money in to buy from the pharmaceuticals he owns shares inApr 10 19:52
EruaranThe Standard Oil monopoly that was broken up in the 1920's (or 30's I cant remember)Apr 10 19:52
schestowitzThe same old scam, one century laterApr 10 19:53
schestowitz 10 19:53
schestowitz 10 19:53
schestowitzYou are allowed to tell peoplwe what the Gates Foundation is about tooApr 10 19:53
schestowitzMicrosoft owns a lot of the press, so it seeds PR, which the smaller (local) pres then echoesApr 10 19:53
schestowitzIt's a revolting thingApr 10 19:53
schestowitzSame with NYT for exampleApr 10 19:53
schestowitzThe known trend to press experts is that big papers set the toneApr 10 19:54
schestowitzThose with relationships int he Pentagon and White HouseApr 10 19:54
schestowitzSo your editors will only agree to accept consensus, where it's defined by Fox, CNN, and NYTApr 10 19:54
Eruaranmmm KDE 4.3 is going to be niceApr 10 19:55
schestowitzThey are asssumed to know better. But anyway, that's another story... I digress nowApr 10 19:55
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schestowitzEruaran: evolutionaryApr 10 19:55
schestowitzHey, Detective GoblinRFD Apr 10 19:55
GoblinRFDHello all!Apr 10 19:55
GoblinRFDlolApr 10 19:55
EruaranhiApr 10 19:55
GoblinRFD:)Apr 10 19:55
schestowitzYou should do more like thatApr 10 19:55
schestowitzIt helps the communal investigationApr 10 19:56
GoblinRFDIve got a few on the books.....Apr 10 19:56
schestowitzThere are too many examples to coverApr 10 19:56
schestowitzMicrosoft would be afraid of many eyeballs on its corrupt activitiesApr 10 19:56
schestowitzLike Comes vs MSApr 10 19:56
schestowitzAnd OEM strngleholdApr 10 19:56
schestowitzThe Internet is empoweringApr 10 19:56
schestowitzIt used to be just DOJ with posession of information and computer magazines Microsoft controlled to disseminate informationApr 10 19:57
schestowitzWhich the advertisers might now like. Hehe.Apr 10 19:57
GoblinRFDIve got a further SUSE/MS reporter connection Im working on at the moment....been quite enlighteningApr 10 19:59
GoblinRFDlook out for the article "Only fools and SUSEs"Apr 10 19:59
schestowitzCheck out the Calc Easter egg: 10 20:03
schestowitzHehe. it works on my computerApr 10 20:04
schestowitzThey hide the fifth guyApr 10 20:04
schestowitzPaul W. Frields  (of Fedora) commented on itApr 10 20:05
GoblinRFDLOLApr 10 20:05
GoblinRFDOn an unrelated note, I hope everyone is looking forward to the new series of Red Dwarf on tonight at 9pmApr 10 20:06
schestowitz 10 20:09
GoblinRFDNot as good as: 10 20:18
schestowitz 10 20:18
schestowitzWhy Legalised Bribery (Which Microsoft Tops) Should be Banned < >Apr 10 20:24
GoblinRFDRight, im off for a Red Dwarf viewing..toodle pip!Apr 10 20:39
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Balrog_interesting. MS is heavily attacking Apple even though there's not too much basis in their attacks ... 10 21:13
Balrog_(mostly based on price)Apr 10 21:13
schestowitzAnything in the news?Apr 10 21:13
schestowitzCNET hardly counts :-)Apr 10 21:13
Balrog_that's a 'critical review'Apr 10 21:13
schestowitzThis is from MS PR departmentApr 10 21:14
schestowitzIna ShielsApr 10 21:14
Balrog_ 10 21:14
Balrog_there's a PDF from MSApr 10 21:14
Balrog_this is clearly coming out of MSApr 10 21:14
Balrog_ 10 21:14
Balrog_this should be on arsApr 10 21:15
Balrog_hmm, not yet :/Apr 10 21:15
Balrog_in any case, take a look at the PDF from MSApr 10 21:15
schestowitzWho did MS pay?Apr 10 21:16
Balrog_they're doing some weird things, like including Apple's MobileMe service for the Mac while not providing an equivalent for PCApr 10 21:16
Balrog_one sec.Apr 10 21:16
schestowitzCause they sought to bribe Apple bloggersApr 10 21:16
schestowitzThey always pretend not to attacj with FUDApr 10 21:16
Balrog_Endpoint Technologies and Roger KayApr 10 21:16
schestowitzThey hire a shillApr 10 21:16
schestowitzDo a Google to see if there is MS backgroundApr 10 21:16
Balrog_the mac people see the is fudApr 10 21:16
schestowitzEither way, they pay for thisApr 10 21:16
schestowitzI care less about the messageApr 10 21:17
schestowitzSee if there is a bribe to generate thisApr 10 21:17
Balrog_well, they make money from Apple, indirectlyApr 10 21:17
schestowitz 10 21:17
Balrog_this is the same guy that said 'Microsoft and Intel are winning a market using an old OS and its smallest chip'Apr 10 21:17
Balrog_the 96% netbook windows mkt share report last weekApr 10 21:18
Balrog_ 10 21:18
schestowitzReally?Apr 10 21:18
schestowitzSame IDC|IDG puppets?Apr 10 21:19
schestowitzMaybe it's time to flag himApr 10 21:19
Balrog_well, they do seem relatedApr 10 21:19
Balrog_maybe.Apr 10 21:19
Balrog_read the articles firstApr 10 21:19
Balrog_"Unusually, Kay and Microsoft also choose to sidestep Apple's higher-end iMacs altogether and try to equate a Mac Pro with a HP Pavilion desktop; according to the paper, a modern Xeon workstation is feature-equivalent to a mid-range home system with a previous-generation Core 2 Quad processor and slower graphics."Apr 10 21:19
schestowitzOh waitApr 10 21:20
Balrog_come on, that's just so stupid and clearly is fudApr 10 21:20
schestowitzYou're showing me Ballmer's buddy articleApr 10 21:20
schestowitzShill ONeillApr 10 21:20
Balrog_hehApr 10 21:20
schestowitzThat's not the same guyApr 10 21:20
schestowitzThis one is revoltingApr 10 21:20
schestowitzShould be sacked immediatelyApr 10 21:20
schestowitzBut it won't happenApr 10 21:20
schestowitzIDG fired the FOSS writersApr 10 21:20
Balrog_it mentions Roger Kay, from Endpoint Technologies, who's the guy behind this 'Apple Tax' reportApr 10 21:20
schestowitzThat's the type of thugs they areApr 10 21:20
Balrog_I see. That 'windows is not designed for security' is still missingApr 10 21:21
schestowitzMaybe we linked to it too much ;-)Apr 10 21:21
schestowitzj/kApr 10 21:21
schestowitzThat's what I was once toldApr 10 21:21
Balrog_this may be a good starting point for a blog post. "MS is desparate, attacking Apple"Apr 10 21:21
schestowitzThat if it gets attention again, then it can be buriedApr 10 21:21
schestowitzSounds ludicrous to me, but well...Apr 10 21:21
Balrog_yeah :/Apr 10 21:22
schestowitzBalrog: I don't want to spend time defending APpleApr 10 21:22
schestowitzThey already spend $300,000,000/annum on imposed illusionsApr 10 21:22
Balrog_I know, but it's showing how desperate they are becomingApr 10 21:22
schestowitzBalrog: leave it to Daniel Eran et alApr 10 21:22
Balrog_OK.Apr 10 21:22
Balrog_maybe slip it into a larger article, or for that matter put it into those long external link news snippets you haveApr 10 21:23
schestowitzI don't know enough about it thoughApr 10 21:24
schestowitzIt's obvious that Apple is atttacked by MirosoftApr 10 21:24
schestowitzBut the same goes the other waApr 10 21:24
schestowitz*wayApr 10 21:24
Balrog_ok. I feel it helps show how desperate ms is becomingApr 10 21:24
schestowitzAt a corporate levelApr 10 21:24
schestowitzNot grassroots levelApr 10 21:24
schestowitzOK, I'll mention itApr 10 21:25
schestowitzBut..Apr 10 21:25
schestowitzTry to find out the writers historyApr 10 21:25
Balrog_true. But fud-filled advertising is going pretty far (they're using this stuff in ads too)Apr 10 21:25
schestowitzNot the same paper/attackApr 10 21:25
schestowitzSee if he met gates or somethingApr 10 21:25
schestowitzYou'd be surprised... some of them have lunch and are part of the familyApr 10 21:25
Balrog_you mean the guy behind the report?Apr 10 21:25
schestowitzThe Internet is vast enough to find out such stuffApr 10 21:25
schestowitzAnd they end up with an egg in the the factApr 10 21:26
schestowitzGoogle "Jonathan Zuck"Apr 10 21:26
schestowitzBalrog: yesApr 10 21:26
Balrog_put '"roger kay" microsoft' into google and a lot comes outApr 10 21:30
Balrog_he labeled microsoft's XPS as 'a PDF killer'Apr 10 21:30
Balrog_back in 05Apr 10 21:30
Balrog_PDL, not XPSApr 10 21:31
Balrog_ 10 21:31
Balrog_that's a mary jo foley article, btwApr 10 21:31
Balrog_"Officially unveiled as part of Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' kick-off keynote, the new Microsoft document workflow format, code-named "Metro," sounds from initial explanations like a page-description language meant to compete with Adobe's PostScript and PDF technologies."Apr 10 21:31
Balrog_...Apr 10 21:31
Balrog_"But now it appears that Microsoft is equating Metro with its Longhorn document-management technology.Apr 10 21:32
Balrog_"It sure sounds like it's meant as a PDF killer to me," said Roger Kay, an analyst with International Data Corp., who was at this week's WinHEC conference."Apr 10 21:32
Balrog_<< quoteApr 10 21:32
Balrog_ 10 21:33
Balrog_Kay, for his part, is hardly a disinterested observer. He’s been consulting for Microsoft since 2006, offering among other services, according to his webpage, “message tuning, spin management, press release support [and] high quality writing.”Apr 10 21:33
Balrog_schestowitz: getting interesting.Apr 10 21:34
schestowitzWait, wait.......Apr 10 21:35
schestowitzIDC?????/Apr 10 21:35
schestowitzInternational Data Corp.?Apr 10 21:35
schestowitzWhere is he now?Apr 10 21:35
Balrog_he has his own company nowApr 10 21:35
schestowitzI see..Apr 10 21:36
Balrog_he's president of Endpoint Technology AssociatesApr 10 21:36
schestowitzI know another one who worked in IDCApr 10 21:36
schestowitzNow his ownApr 10 21:36
schestowitzAttacks LinuxApr 10 21:36
schestowitzDennis ByronApr 10 21:36
schestowitzAlso attacked ODFApr 10 21:36
schestowitzThings he doesn't understandApr 10 21:36
Balrog_he was writing nonsense about mac and iphone viruses / 'security' beforeApr 10 21:36
Balrog_"Apple's Icarus Effect"Apr 10 21:37
Balrog_ 10 21:37
*deetah ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 21:41
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schestowitzBalrog: I see.....Apr 10 21:58
Balrog_yeah. So it seems they're getting more and more desperateApr 10 22:00
schestowitzYesApr 10 22:05
schestowitzI'll merge this with another IDC postApr 10 22:05
schestowitzmananaApr 10 22:05
Balrog_k.Apr 10 22:05
taconepftApr 10 22:06
taconeidc does transcription services for microsoftApr 10 22:06
taconewhen microsoft gives a conference the idc guys get paied to write down what they say for microsoft's own reference.Apr 10 22:07
Balrog_I see.Apr 10 22:07
taconei've got a friend who works for idc italy.Apr 10 22:08
Balrog_interestingApr 10 22:08
taconesadly he's not really IT/tech savyApr 10 22:09
Balrog_ah.Apr 10 22:09
taconebut some pearl come out anywayApr 10 22:09
taconelolApr 10 22:09
schestowitzSo much money spent on useless weapons.....*sigh* 10 22:14
schestowitz5 trillion spent in recent years on nukes?!? 10 22:21
Balrog_wow.Apr 10 22:23
*_Hicham_ (i=c40cf589@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 22:23
schestowitzObama is afraid of showing the world (outwardly) an approach towards bankruptcy. It would leave them fragile and unable to get more loans, I think.Apr 10 22:28
_Hicham_schestowitz is planning to kill obamaApr 10 22:33
_Hicham_schestowitz is a confirmed racistApr 10 22:33
schestowitzNo, I like ObamaApr 10 22:33
schestowitzStop saying crap, _Hicham_ Apr 10 22:33
schestowitzIt's more silly than funnyApr 10 22:34
schestowitzWatch 10 22:34
_Hicham_Hi Roy!Apr 10 22:34
schestowitzVery interesting.Apr 10 22:34
_Hicham_r u in a bad mood or what schestowitz?Apr 10 22:34
Balrog_schestowitz: I don't like either party.Apr 10 22:34
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, no bad newsApr 10 22:38
schestowitzBut don't post stuff like "schestowitz is planning to kill obama"Apr 10 22:39
schestowitzIt's sillyApr 10 22:39
schestowitzhe's the guy's talk about his book: 10 22:39
schestowitzI didn't know that US military bases in the UK were secretApr 10 22:39
*_Hicham_ has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Apr 10 22:39
schestowitzIt's an excellent talk. RecommendedApr 10 22:42
*mib_ngh30u (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 22:47
taconezomg 10 22:50
taconehe can't disclose the full name yet. the first name is miguel :DApr 10 22:50
*trmanco has quit ("ERROR: crap-talking overflow - Aborting")Apr 10 22:51
schestowitzMicrosoft is not hiringApr 10 22:52
schestowitzIt's firingApr 10 22:52
schestowitzBad luck, eh?Apr 10 22:52
schestowitzNovell too is firingApr 10 22:52
taconewell that's a novell laid of i guess.Apr 10 22:52
schestowitzThat's the two companies that play (fling around) monokey businessApr 10 22:52
taconewhen novell goes downApr 10 22:53
schestowitztacone: so you think Novell sacked some more people?Apr 10 22:53
tacone"A good friend of mine that has extensive experience with C# and has written significant portions of the Banshee media player, has contributed to our C# 3.0 and C# 4.0 support and to our runtime is looking for a programming job."Apr 10 22:53
schestowitzWell, I know layoffs are coming, but not just yetApr 10 22:53
schestowitztacone: you could get his name by looking at the projectApr 10 22:54
schestowitzMono people live in secrecApr 10 22:54
schestowitz*secrecyApr 10 22:54
taconewhen novell goes down, who will take the burden to develop mono ?Apr 10 22:54
schestowitzIt's a prerequisite of a turncoatApr 10 22:54
taconegiven the exclusionary deal for novell ?Apr 10 22:54
schestowitztacone: /dev/null/ mightApr 10 22:54
taconewhen gnome gets finally poisoned enoughApr 10 22:54
taconeand then novell goes downApr 10 22:55
*mib_ngh30u has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Apr 10 22:55
taconewhat then ?Apr 10 22:55
taconegoogle is busy speeding up python, they won't care about mono.Apr 10 22:55
taconethey're probably speeding up python to avoid mono to take over.Apr 10 22:55
taconewhen python get's 5x faster then what will mono be useful for ?Apr 10 22:56
schestowitzWhat about Java?Apr 10 22:59
taconewhat ?Apr 10 22:59
taconejava is for big business apps.Apr 10 23:00
taconenow it's gpl okApr 10 23:00
taconebut it's enourmous.Apr 10 23:00
*mememe (n=gfds@ has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 23:02
schestowitzmemem: ..Apr 10 23:04
Balrog_novell owns unixApr 10 23:04
Balrog_do you think that could cause issues?Apr 10 23:04
memememememe is imamilkydrunkApr 10 23:04
schestowitzI see... :-)Apr 10 23:04
mememeyou see.. you can't see datApr 10 23:04
mememeevery info is changeApr 10 23:05
schestowitzBalrog: yes, but ond newsApr 10 23:05
mememedApr 10 23:05
schestowitz2007Apr 10 23:05
schestowitzWe wrote lots about itApr 10 23:05
schestowitzThere's no legal promise from NovellApr 10 23:05
schestowitzJust verbal promise, no contractApr 10 23:05
schestowitzFrom Bruce PowryApr 10 23:05
schestowitzHe quite Novell laterApr 10 23:05
mememewhat kind of promice?Apr 10 23:05
schestowitz*LoeryApr 10 23:05
schestowitz*owryApr 10 23:05
schestowitzI can't type cause I eat Apr 10 23:05
mememeand i'm smoking and drinkingApr 10 23:06
Balrog_schestowitz: also about that thingApr 10 23:06
mememelike bender in futuramaApr 10 23:06
schestowitzDrinking to sober upApr 10 23:06
schestowitzNot good educationApr 10 23:06
schestowitzThe show glorifies drinkingApr 10 23:07
mememeyou better told about promise that novell should've givenApr 10 23:07
schestowitzRMS has just published: (The Zeitgeist Movement)Apr 10 23:11
schestowitz"copyright (c) 2009 Richard Stallman "Apr 10 23:12
schestowitzHehe. CopyrightApr 10 23:12
mememewow.. there's stallman.orgApr 10 23:12
mememei should search his site for the references of comicsApr 10 23:14
MinceRthe unix novell owns is deadApr 10 23:21
MinceRunix is dead, long live the gnu ;)Apr 10 23:22
mememeunix is dead by linuxApr 10 23:23
mememesun realised it only this yearApr 10 23:23
MinceRindeedApr 10 23:25
MinceRthey didn't act on this realization other than trying to sell themselves, thoughApr 10 23:25
mememenoo, they are switching to some linuxApr 10 23:28
*NeonFloss has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 10 23:48
schestowitzBalrog: I summarise our discussiobApr 10 23:55
schestowitzmememe: it's mostly a political siteApr 10 23:55
schestowitzRMS is a politics buffApr 10 23:55
taconethis was fun: 10 23:58

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