Bonum Certa Men Certa

Why Nokia Sued Apple First (or Why Apple is Possibly the 'Bad Guy')

Nokia logo with Apple



Summary: Another angle on the Apple vs Nokia case

WE all know that Apple sued Linux/Android without any prior provocation from the side of Linux/Android. It makes Apple a patent aggressor, but some people cite Nokia as an example of Apple being the victim of a Linux-supporting company [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. In our third IRC channel (#boycottnovell-social) we have just discussed the point which came to us via Identi.ca [1, 2] (language warning, as it's IRC and microblogging).



To make a long story short, Oiaohm insisted that it was Apple's fault as it started to provoke Linux-based products (such as Palm's WebOS) using patents. He explained that Nokia's action was defensive in a proactive sense. Partial log is below.






Techrights logo

IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: June 4th, 2010

schestowitz"although nokia has been fairly good to free software, when they pull bullshit like that they deserve to be called out [..] hey where was all the stories about nokia when they brought all the litigation with apple for bullshit patents?" @eeefak I wrote about that a lot and denounced Nokia since 2008 http://www.google.com/search?q=site:techrights.org+apple+nokia&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=Jun 04 09:51
phIRCe-localTitle: site:techrights.org apple nokia - Google Search .::. Size~: 35.96 KBJun 04 09:51
oiaohmSome peopleJun 04 10:24
oiaohmApple started itJun 04 10:24
oiaohmNever mess with nokiaJun 04 10:24
oiaohmNokia is truly one of the most friendly companies out there.  If nokia used all the patents they had they could have 100 percent of the market.Jun 04 10:25
schestowitzApple started it?Jun 04 10:26
schestowitzI think Nokia didJun 04 10:26
oiaohmApple started it.Jun 04 10:34
oiaohmTrying to apply font patents on NokiaJun 04 10:34
oiaohmSometimes you should leave well enough alone.Jun 04 10:34
schestowitzI see..Jun 04 10:35
oiaohmIe apple poked nokia with small stick.Jun 04 10:36
oiaohmNokia pulled out huge cub and procedded to beat them into the ground.Jun 04 10:36
oiaohmNokia is fine as long as you are not dumb enough to poke them.Jun 04 10:37
schestowitzAny link on that?Jun 04 10:37
schestowitzI thought Nokia had struck firstJun 04 10:37
oiaohmIe apple saber rattled.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmI did have the link.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmIt was over there iphone they made a statement and nokia kinda exploded.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmBasically nokia believe in pemetive strick if they get wind of you planing to hit them.Jun 04 10:40
schestowitzShow it to me, plsJun 04 10:40
schestowitzit's /very/ importantJun 04 10:40
schestowitzI accused Nokia is being the first to strikeJun 04 10:40
schestowitzI'd love to show Apple started itJun 04 10:41
oiaohmI know what the tech was about trying to get google to play ball.Jun 04 10:43
schestowitzLet me know if you find thisJun 04 10:47
schestowitzYou're usually right about this stuffJun 04 10:47
schestowitzBut I ought to at least show evidence from Apple/NokiaJun 04 10:47
oiaohmIts two things.Jun 04 10:50
oiaohmMulti-touch and fonts.  schestowitzJun 04 10:50
oiaohmApple was saber rattling about multi-touch attacked quite a few companies.  Nokia needs multi-touch to stay competitive.Jun 04 10:51
oiaohmNokia has a lot of core patents.   Basically hit Apple hard get a good patent deal.Jun 04 10:51
schestowitzBut did Apple threaten Nokia?Jun 04 10:52
MinceRfor yourself, that isJun 04 10:52
MinceRcrApple needs to be hit harder so they won't oppress the industry any moreJun 04 10:52
oiaohmNokia don't have to threat them before they will hit you.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmIf you place your self as a tech road block.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmThey will steam roll you.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmBasically apple threating other companies over multi-touch basically put themselves in nokia target to be neturalised before they can attack nokia.Jun 04 10:55
oiaohmBe a nice company and nokia is nice to you.Jun 04 10:55
oiaohmbe a asshole company hope nokia has nothing on you.Jun 04 10:55
MinceRand what has Xiph done against Nokia, then?Jun 04 10:57
oiaohmhttp://industry.bnet.com/technology/10004789/apple-multi-touch-patent-on-shaky-ground/  And this is the bit that tops it all.Jun 04 10:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Multi-Touch Patent on Shaky Ground | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 57.85 KBJun 04 10:57
oiaohmApples patent might be completely worthless.Jun 04 10:57
MinceRdon't forget Nokia's attack on HTML5.Jun 04 10:58
oiaohmDefine attack.Jun 04 10:59
oiaohmLot of stuff against Xiph nokia showed was stuff they had licenced from other companies not there own stuff.Jun 04 10:59
oiaohmAlso hardware decoders are more power effective ie longer battery live.Jun 04 11:00
schestowitzhttp://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-sourceJun 04 11:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Aquaria goes open source! - Wolfire Games Blog .::. Size~: 20.09 KBJun 04 11:00
MinceRNokia along with crApple made sure that HTML5 has no default recommendation for codecsJun 04 11:00
MinceRwhen it could have been Theora/Vorbis.Jun 04 11:00
MinceRthat was an asshole moveJun 04 11:01
MinceRit was said that Nokia did it so they could force DRM-encrusted shit the throats of users.Jun 04 11:01
oiaohmYep Nokia was on of the first to support VP8Jun 04 11:01
MinceRs/hit/hit down/Jun 04 11:01
MinceRthere was no VP8 back then.Jun 04 11:01
schestowitzMaybe it would not have been necessaryJun 04 11:02
oiaohmNokia was also the first to call google to release vp8Jun 04 11:02
schestowitzYouTUbe could use OggJun 04 11:02
schestowitzGoogle bought a company insteadJun 04 11:02
oiaohmTo solve issue MinceRJun 04 11:02
MinceRit was a nonissueJun 04 11:02
schestowitzNokia support Microsoft's Silver LieJun 04 11:03
schestowitzSince early 2008Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmThere are a few issue with TheoraJun 04 11:03
MinceRalso, don't forget Nokia's whining about how the FLOSS community should just do what Nokia wants and help them put DRM everywhere.Jun 04 11:03
schestowitzAri's rantJun 04 11:03
MinceRwhat issues? slightly less efficient than the holy H.264?Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmVorbis you can build hardware decoders for quite well.Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmH264 the same.Jun 04 11:03
schestowitzLinux users "need some education"Jun 04 11:03
MinceRor perhaps VC-1? (lol)Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmTheora has issues when you try to turn it into power effective circuit.Jun 04 11:04
oiaohmVC-1 is worse than Theora in a circuit.Jun 04 11:04
MinceRso what do you recommend? i'd recommend using a CPU.Jun 04 11:04
oiaohmDecated cirucit does not take as much power and lets the cpu run slow and pull less power.Jun 04 11:05
oiaohmRemember lot of Nokia devices are about days of battery life.Jun 04 11:05
[...]
oiaohmhttp://mashable.com/2009/01/26/apple-multi-touch-patent/  << the nokia attack on apple would have started from here.  schestowitzJun 04 11:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Gets Their Multi-Touch Patent; Is Palm Screwed? .::. Size~: 89.79 KBJun 04 11:15
oiaohmA quite open patent attack against Palm over multitouch that nokia will need to implement to complete against iphone.Jun 04 11:16
oiaohmDon't go rattling sabbers sometimes you wake up a monster who is in on mood in talking.Jun 04 11:17
oiaohmhttp://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/22/tim-cook-apple-will-aggressively-protect-iphone-intellectual-property/  And these rumors would have made Nokia think offence is better than waiting around.Jun 04 11:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Tim Cook: Apple Will Aggressively Protect iPhone Intellectual Property - Mac Rumors .::. Size~: 18.34 KBJun 04 11:20
oiaohmYep don't rumor that you are going to Aggressively protect tech then be infringing on stuff.Jun 04 11:21
oiaohmI guess schestowitz is afkJun 04 11:21
[...]
oiaohmCan you see the start point now.  schestowitzJun 04 11:31
oiaohmIe apple says they going to protect the tech in the iphone.Jun 04 11:31
oiaohmNokia gets upset.Jun 04 11:31
schestowitzYes, I read thatJun 04 11:40
schestowitzI was gonna do a post about itJun 04 11:40

Recent Techrights' Posts

Finland Needs to Dump Microsoft (Microslop) for National Security Reasons and the Same is True for Hundreds of Countries
"I don't see why Ryssäs would want Finns to use microslop products..."
Fight Til the End
This comes to show that persistence pays off
SLAPP Censorship - Part 79 Out of 200: They Will Soon Reach the 100 KG (Kilograms) Milestone; Wheelbarrows, Not Justice (Quantity of Legal Papers Sent to Us)
It's about the quality, not quantity (unless your sole aim is to drown out or "flood the zone")
 
"The Society of Media Lawyers" (UK) is a Truly Malicious Anti-Media Lobby Which Helps Rich/Abusive Americans and Hostile Countries Attack Actual Media Workers in the UK
They typically source their money from aboard to besiege domestic actors (like honest journalists or independent outlets that document suppressed beats/topics)
Slop Still Waning, Its Momentum is Driven by Companies That Stand to Lose a Lot (or Everything) When the Bubble Pops
When it comes to LLM slop disguised as news, it's just not working out
Gemini Links 17/05/2026: arXiv Brings Down the Hammer, UnderPOWERed, and Slopping With Tcl/Tk
Links for the day
Links 17/05/2026: Amazon Employees Herded Into Slop, Taiwan Sold Down the River by Cheeto
Links for the day
Links 17/05/2026: Society of Media Lawyers (Brett Wilson LLP et al) Lobby for More SLAPPs in the UK, “Courage in Journalism Award” Given in Oppressive Country
Links for the day
Cyber Show UK is Already Available Over Gemini Protocol
This past week the total number of active Gemini capsules hit all-time records several times
The Corrupt Lecture the Non-Corrupt - Part XXV - Not Bringing Intelligence to the EPO, Not 'Artificial Intelligence' Either (But Intelligence-Eroding Drugs)
The EPO was meant to be about science and law. In practice, however, it's about breaking the law and being stoned.
The Cyber Show on Why Coding is Important and Slop Cannot Change or Replace That
Hand-crafting one's site has plenty of advantages
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, May 16, 2026
IRC logs for Saturday, May 16, 2026
Gemini Links 17/05/2026: Music Theory, Reticulum Git Repos, and Releasing Kiln
Links for the day
Links 16/05/2026: Cuba Plunges Into Darkness (Energy Wasted by Nonsense), Googlebooks as Slop Nonsense (Energy Waste and Time Wasted)
Links for the day
Links 16/05/2026: Climate Issues, Free Speech, and Monopolies/Monopsonies
Links for the day
Gemini Links 16/05/2026: Retreat and Devuan Manuals
Links for the day
SLAPP Censorship - Part 78 Out of 200: Slandering Me for Saying the Truth About Graveley and Garrett's Abuse of Processes, Stacking Dockets
These are the sorts of things British taxpayers ought to talk about
"AI" Became a New Name or Placeholder for Debt
Because they will only ever lose money for this thing with "tokens" or "potential"
"Microsoft Goodwill and Intangible Assets" Down Two Years in a Row, According to Microsoft
Microsoft cannot sell these, so what is their real relevance?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, May 15, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, May 15, 2026
IBM: Shares Down 30%, Mass Layoffs, IBM Says "Goodwill" Grew by 10% to Over a Third of the Company's Total "Worth"
According to IBM
Microsoft LinkedIn Layoffs "Very Likely Higher" Than 1,000 People
Microsoft is bleeding
The Corrupt Lecture the Non-Corrupt - Part XXIV - Luis Berenguer Giménez at the EPO (European Patent Office) Became the Punchline of EPO Staff
"the fact that Luis was caught with cocaine causes laughter. The use of cocaine in itself is not the real shocking bit."
IBM Keeps Culling Essential Linux, Fedora, GNOME, and GTK Staff
Over a month ago IBM laid off over 400 Red Hat engineers
Cisco Cuts Nearly 4,000 Jobs Because of Debt, Nothing to Do With Slop
The media keeps talking about revenue, not profits
Gemini Links 15/05/2026: UDP Game Forwarding Over SSH, Avoiding LLMs, and Alhena 5.5.9
Links for the day
Links 15/05/2026: Electric Company Shuns Entire Town to Prioritise Only Data Centres, Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. Carried Out Secret Attacks in Iran
Links for the day
LLM Slop is Not Reliable, Constitutes No Process of 'Thinking'; There's No Thought Process at All, No Grasp or Understanding, Let Alone Context
Lies have become the "business model" [...] More people ought to talk about it and explain to other people what LLMs really are
Not a Security Expert If You Cannot Manage to Keep Online a Simple Two-User Mastodon Instance Somebody Else Built
From uptime of ~99% to maybe 80%
Microsoft Has All the Symptoms of a Dying Company (Mass Layoffs of the People Who Built the Company)
the company's debt is going through the ceiling
Focus is Important, Focus is Everything
We are still running 6 multi-part series in tandem
For Effective 'Finlandisation' (Not Digital Sovereignty) to Be Replaced by Autonomy Finland Needs to Think Like GNU (Software Freedom), Not Linux (Openwashing Source, Plus LLM Slop and Killswitches)
What is 'Finlandisation'?
Guest Post on False Marketing and PR Blitzes by Anthropic
A lot of people my age are just tired of the nonsense
Links 15/05/2026: UK antitrust regulator is officially investigating Microsoft Office, Anthropic’s Fraudulent Lies About Mythoslop Don't Withstand Scrutiny
Links for the day
IBM's Kyndryl in Trouble: Mass Layoffs, Payroll Problems, Buybacks (in Company Whose Debt is Almost Twice Its Total Value), and Soon $9 Per Share (Down Over 80%)
Kyndryl is done. Stick a fork in it.
ICYMI: GNU/Linux Did Not Start in Finland
If we're honest/true to ourselves, we need to recognise history for what it is, not what some corporations (like GAFAM) want it to be
IBM is Googlebombing the Media With Fake Numbers to Promote Fake Technology
a classic example of why much of today's media cannot be trusted (anymore)
Up to 10,000 Microsoft Layoffs in a Couple of Months
Many ways to skin a cat
Truth Hurts. People Hurt by Truth Aren't Entitled to Compensation.
Family members aren't exempt
SLAPP Censorship - Part 77 Out of 200: They Never Knew How to Handle Women (Except to Attack Them)
The case against us was really quite simple
Update on Sirius Open Source in 2026 (When Your Former Employer Commits Crimes and Nobody is Held Accountable)
I did not envision myself spending several years (even 4 years after leaving that company) challenging the system for tolerating and even covering up corruption
Codecs and Software Patents - Part VII - Entering Phase II, the Battle Against Companies That Normalise Taxed (by Patents on Mathematics) Codecs
In the next few part we'll deal with the impact on Free software, including the GNU Project
The Corrupt Lecture the Non-Corrupt - Part XXIII - Cocaine Use at the EPO's Top-Level Management "Adds Up" and Worsens Things "Over Time"
"cocaine use knocks the IQ down permanently a tiny bit with each use. Over time that adds up."
Gemini Links 15/05/2026: Slop Fatigue and Banning LLM Use
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, May 14, 2026
IRC logs for Thursday, May 14, 2026