Bonum Certa Men Certa

Guest Post: Hostile Communities and Arrogant Developers

Easter Eggs



Summary: "Don't put all your eggs in one basket, whether regarding your software or your community."

As a free speech advocate who once spent an entire decade establishing a single point about development that was hostile to a community, I've spent a long time thinking about what makes certain things so difficult to say or get acknowledged in a community -- about how communities can delude themselves and use coordinated abuse to defend their positions.



For those who feel this is a familiar problem, my advice to you is: don't put all your eggs in one basket, whether regarding your software or your community. If the people around your favourite software are toxic in some way, find a good way to create or seek an alternative.

Humility is a hard problem in computer science, and people will judge you based on their own notions of fairness. Fairness is a difficult concept for basically everyone. No matter how interested you are in finding truth, playing devil's advocate or viewing things from multiple perspectives (without succumbing to false compromise) you're ultimately going to choose between being agreeable and taking a lot of criticism.

"I like people that are outspoken, I like that Torvalds flipped off Nvidia and I like that Stallman doesn't coddle corporations and excuse their corruption and poor behaviour towards the user."If you are a critic, you will have every critique turned back on you. People say they are thick-skinned, but a lot of that is about appearances and what people tell themselves. Most people are more vulnerable than they admit.

One of the things that I try to promote as a free speech advocate is for people to be allowed to be their true selves -- but not allowed to be untrue. This means for one thing, that we aren't putting up a facade of being agreeable when we feel something is wrong. It also means people have faults, and no matter where you are in your journey as a person, that you screw up and other people screw up, and pretty much everybody has played the fool before.

Some of the most vulnerable people in the world like to project their need for perfection onto others. They don't always hold themselves to similar standards; they either feel great amounts of shame, or none at all, and they maintain this by being unfair to everyone. This doesn't actually bother everyone, because being consistently unfair has different effects on different people -- some get pissed off, others walk away, some people treat it as a learning experience, and if you make it a goal in life to treat every experience as an opportunity to grow, you probably will grow. Sometimes.

I'm not here to paint myself as a saint. I like people that are outspoken, I like that Torvalds flipped off Nvidia and I like that Stallman doesn't coddle corporations and excuse their corruption and poor behaviour towards the user. I think there are (at least) two kinds of assholes: those who are assholes for a good cause (Bill Hicks, George Carlin -- when he is maintaining the kernel, Linus Torvalds -- Spider Jerusalem) and people who are "really just assholes."

The whole concept of becoming the niceness police is a very corporate thing, which in practice allows people like Torvalds to be hypocritically stifled by people who are just as rude, but who have worse intentions. I don't support it, I don't defend it, it is a recipe for hypocrisy.

"That's part of the fairness -- if we decide to treat anything we consider offensive as yet another scarlet letter, all we have done is made the world more corporate and authoritative."Any concept of being better people has to acknowledge that many of the best people in the world are assholes sometimes. That's part of the fairness -- if we decide to treat anything we consider offensive as yet another scarlet letter, all we have done is made the world more corporate and authoritative.

Then again, if someone is being a jerk without a good reason (and who is to say? Should we make it about what the reason is, about context, or should we make it authoritative?) You still have the right to call them on it.

If you do, is the bully protected? Is the community really introspective enough to not favour their own over fairness? Will they turn against you for speaking up, and then neglect to address the bully you stood up to? Because this sort of injustice doesn't becomes less common under a Code of Conduct. It often increases. This particular sort of injustice is the same problem with or without a CoC.

Consider the Bill of Rights. These are ideals and freedoms a lot of us want every person to have; it is not just a list of privileges for citizens, in fact they are drawn from a concept of natural rights. The Bill of Rights places natural rights firmly outside the reach of (legitimate) government. If you rip up the Constitution, the rights still exist -- all that has changed is whether those rights are officially recognised by the government.

Do we extend that sort of baseline fairness to people outside our communities? Do we recognise the rights of other people we consider inalienable? I admit this question is mostly rhetorical, but all I'm really trying to say here is that I believe truth often transcends a local community take on it -- there are always areas in which a community forgets the obvious about one matter or another.

Not being a jerk is a great goal for any person, never being considered a jerk is a goal that is probably unobtainable for most or all good people. I love Dave Chappelle and what he says about Kevin Hart, and either are surely considered jerks by many now -- due to their politics or pasts. Are they wonderful comedians? I think so. Not all of us are offended, or need to be.

"Not being a jerk is a great goal for any person, never being considered a jerk is a goal that is probably unobtainable for most or all good people."But there are efforts to destroy people based on holding them to an unrealistic standard. There is nothing that really makes Richard Stallman a horrible person, but there are plenty of arguments for treating him no differently than someone who is. To me, that's a fine example of arrogance -- of creating a different concept of fairness to take down a great person than one we would accept for ourselves in the same shoes.

But even if we are terrible at figuring out who deserves it, I also think we have a right to stand up to bullies, and argue with people who are being unreasonable. Being "nice" to everyone is a fine solution, if you really believe it is the answer to everything -- if you're capable of really being nice to everyone.

"There is nothing that really makes Richard Stallman a horrible person, but there are plenty of arguments for treating him no differently than someone who is."I think more people are capable of being jerks to those who deserve it, and there's a lot of room to talk about the times we turn that on the wrong people, or for the wrong reasons. But I don't believe that it's never justified. I think if we make a rule that you can never argue, never protest, never be "rude", and that doing so somehow ruins something -- that's just nonsense. It is a convenience for exactly the sort of person who needs to abuse the sort of authoritarian regime it inevitably creates.

A better rule would be to try to understand why people are being jerks -- if they have a reason to be that way, if they are being misunderstood, if there is context -- if there is no interest, then just ignore it. This is a good idea, but some people will be certain to exploit our best nature.

When I wrote a book on how the Free software movement could become twice as effective, I included a chapter on narcissism -- I think there is more of it out there than people realise or understand. It isn't just an inflated sense of self. It isn't just ambition. Narcissism is a fundamental unfairness, and if lots more people understood it better, I think communities would be able to deal with it more effectively.

So if I talk about "hostile communities" or "arrogant developers," I'm not just saying that there are jerks there. There are "jerks" everywhere. Some of them are even valuable to us.

The context of such labels, if applied fairly, is that a fundamental unfairness, a persistent injustice infects a project -- due to its community, its project leaders, or both. It's not just about what people are doing, but what reasons they have, and what they are trying to defend with their abuse.

"I don't like Torvalds because of the way he smeared the Free software community selfishly and unfairly, while stealing so much credit from them during the course of his career."And if you're one of those people who really are nice to everybody -- great, you make the world a better place. Most people aren't as good as you, but you deserve credit for setting a good example. Cheers.

I don't like Torvalds because of the way he smeared the Free software community selfishly and unfairly, while stealing so much credit from them during the course of his career. To me, that is fundamentally unjust. What I would like for him to do instead is to turn his ability to forcefully defend the kernel on such matters exclusively, and not have it spill over onto how he treats reasonable critics.

But since that will never happen, I will simply retain my opinion of him. I'm not going to stop using his kernel, because I don't think he's a monster. I just think he's a dick. If a better kernel came along, sure, that's great.

I'm not saying there is no threshold where I wouldn't boycott a piece of software over someone's attitude, I'm just saying that for me personally, the importance and quality of Torvald's kernel outweighs his smearing of the entire Free software community. It leaves me using his software and disliking him as a person, and commenting on his unfairness. If he wrote a text editor, and it wasn't the very best text editor in the history of the world, I might not use it just because he's a jerk.

But I also believe that he is a better person than the one who will take his place, that he shows great integrity when defending the quality and goals of the kernel (quality and goals I strongly agree are worthwhile) and that it's just too bad that integrity doesn't extend to his treatment of Free software, or of corporations.

Facebook is disease, hating Microsoft is a disease. How can you be so inconsistent? But as someone who gets some things very right, and other things very wrong, he's a very useful example. We are never going to get an apology from Linus. What we will get, is a worse replacement.

When I start mentioning toxic communities, I'm talking about endemics -- something that can only be solved via personal integrity from a threshold of more than one individual working together for a higher purpose. I don't think you can force toxicity out of a community -- they can only repair themselves from within, or they can be abandoned if there is a viable alternative.

If instead, we just try to purge all the jerks from every corner -- what do we get? A world with no Carlins, no Chappelles, no Stallmans, and we get a worse person than Torvalds instead of Torvalds.

"Hostile communities also have a certain level of unfairness towards outsiders; they claim one principle, but that principle doesn't hold up once you go outside the innermost community."I don't recommend being that superficial. The only way for humanity to reach perfection is if it takes forever, or takes shortcuts to damn itself. We are so attached to the latter these days -- I would rather it take forever. But I would still like for communities to at least try to maintain a good overall direction. There are too many places right now, that we don't even have that.

Maybe you don't know what I'm talking about, and that's alright. One thing I've noticed from years of talking about the politics of communities, is that most people are constantly told (and to some degree, believe) that there is no problem. Others think it is irrelevant unless there is a proven solution. Others thing it is irrelevant even if there is a proven solution.

When it comes to a community or government that stifles people, the people who believe there is stifling are always the minority -- often a small one.

There are lots of people who love to play a victim too, and there is no simple way to ever be sure who is whom. But where there is stifling, the people to notice and say something are often the first to experience the full brunt of it. If you ask around -- "Are people being stifled? What about this guy? What about her? How about these people over here?" You are typically going to have to be an investigative reporter to find the stifling going on. If it were obvious, more people wouldn't support it.

You have to care really deeply about a community to change this, and you also have to be respected in the community enough to stand up to it and not become another victim.

"You have to care really deeply about a community to change this, and you also have to be respected in the community enough to stand up to it and not become another victim."There are no easy answers, but that doesn't mean these problems don't exist. It is the very worst when the arrogance and hostility protects things that don't deserve protection -- things like corporate takeovers, slacking about security, and protecting the dishonest. Hostile communities also have a certain level of unfairness towards outsiders; they claim one principle, but that principle doesn't hold up once you go outside the innermost community.

It is passe to refer to these hostile communities as cults, but not entirely without point to make the comparison. Sometimes, non-cults circle the wagons and become gradually more cult-like with time.

It's important to point out that you can have a highly toxic community for an otherwise good project, even if the developer is a decent person. Ideally, the developer would fix this -- unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. Sometimes in the Free software world, the lead developer is the real problem. Sometimes it has nothing to do with them, and they are sort of a victim of their own supporters; it's not that the supporters don't appreciate the developer, its just that they are incapable of not being toxic. Realising they didn't get into software to raise and babysit a community, the developer throws their hands up and lets the community be a mix of friendly people, narcissistic co-leaders, and their many victims.

"For Debian, it was systemd -- for Puppy Linux, it will likely be the use of GitHub."There is often some singular political truth being propped up by such a community -- that the community is protecting a single lie (such as an exaggeration of the effectiveness of their effort or their ability to keep a core promise to users, once abandoned) and most of the abuse towards the unguarded centres around tripping over that one lie with a simple truth.

In other words, the narcissistic defense of a single false promise to users (I can think of several examples among several different communities) rather than admitting limitations is often at the core of these quiet feuds, disputes and endemic abuse.

Eventually these disputes become controversy, and later on they become a project's downfall. For Debian, it was systemd -- for Puppy Linux, it will likely be the use of GitHub. These are not even the worst examples, which I have neglected to mention at this time. There are also many lesser examples. Of course, it may not matter to you. If you have never experienced this sort of thing first hand, it may never matter to you.

If you have witnessed it in more than one community, you might feel obliged to comment on it. But it is seldom easy to do so, even for good people. To gain respect in a community often takes more than being a good person -- if your contributions aren't among the top concerns, you may find that silence amidst corruption is your only saving grace.

Is that a privilege you really even want?

License: Creative Commons CC0 1.0 (Public Domain)

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

Not Just Slow News But Also Late News (Julian Assange Landing in Thailand)
Why did AP take so long (nearly a week) to release these?
[Meme] Smart Alec Poettering
How many Microsofters can the Debian Project withstand?
Getting Rid of Microsoft Does Not Go Far Enough
Microsoft already has many problems. One day Microsoft won't exist anymore. But that does not guarantee users' freedom.
Alyssa Rosenzweig's LibrePlanet Talk About Freeing the Apple GPU
Alyssa Rosenzweig is the graphics witch behind the reverse-engineered drivers for the Apple GPU. She previously led Panfrost, the free drivers for Arm Mali GPUs powering devices like the Pinebook Pro. She graduated in 2023 with a Computer Science degree from the University of Toronto and now writes free software full-time.
Links 30/06/2024: LLMs Under Fire and Dictatorship of the Old
Links for the day
[Meme] Walking Outside the Guardrails of the Walled Gardens Built by Monopolies
So-called "advertiser-unfriendly" material was never a problem for Wikileaks
This War Crime Footage, Nothing Political Per Se, Is What They Made Julian Assange Plead Guilty To (War Criminals Not Convicted, Only Those Who Expose Them)
Wikileaks' Julian Assange: Exposing the US Military Crimes
20 Years Passed, Let's Go Even Faster Now
We are hoping to bring more original stories
 
In the First 6 Months of 2024 Thailand Moved to GNU/Linux, Not to Windows Vista 11
maybe users moved from Vista 10 and 11 to GNU/Linux, seeing where Microsoft was heading with forced hardware "upgrades"
Eko K. A. Owen, New Outreach and Communications Coordinator for the FSF
Nice to see many new additions to the FSF's team
Microsoft Has Slaves and Enablers, Not Partners
Obligatory meme too
Windows in Åland Islands: From 100% to Less Than Half
Åland Islands lost the sense of urgency to move to GNU/Linux
Tobias Platen Covered Freedom-To-Play Games in LibrePlanet 2024
Freedom-To-Play games using Taler
[Meme] Opening a 'Webapp' With 'Only' 4 GB of RAM
Until 2020 none of my PCs ever had more than 2 GB of RAM
Destination 'Five Percent'
We reckon GNU/Linux can break the 5% barrier some time by the end of this year, even without counting Chromebooks
A Crisis of Online Journalism
Almost a week ago a journalist was forced to plead guilty for an act of journalism
Germany One of Many Countries Where Microsoft's Bing Lost Market Share After All That LLM Nonsense (Bing Chat and Further Rebrands/Renames)
openai.com traffic plunged 60% last month
Microsoft’s Latest Antitrust Scrutiny
4 new stories
Microsoft Layoffs, Mass Plagiarism, and More
outrage included
GNU/Linux Climbed 0.25% This Month (in statCounter)
Around midday on Tuesday we'll start seeing preliminary data for July
Ilya Gulko Introduces Pollyanna
"Pollyanna is a web framework that makes it easy to create your own libre social space, such as a social network or blog."
'FSFE': Underage Labour, GAFAM Fronting, and Identity Theft to Undermine the FSF's Current Fundraiser
looking to raise funds at the same time as the FSF
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, June 29, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, June 29, 2024
Links 29/06/2024: Astronauts at Risk, Ukraine Updates
Links for the day
Fedora and Red Hat Leftovers
mostly redhat.com
Microsoft is Now Googlebombing or Spamming 'Open Source' and 'Linux' to Promote Proprietary Surveillance, Azure
Notice the title and the image, what's being promoted etc.
Seychelles: GNU/Linux Doing OK
Seychelles cannot be considered poor
Gemini Protocol Isn't Even Remotely "Dead"
"Lupa knows of 505,000 (half a million!) working Gemini URLs at present, up from about 425,000 this time last year"
About 10 New Free Software Foundation (FSF) Members Per Day
The total changed from 46 to 47 while typing the article
Vista 11 Adoption Unusually Low in Germany and It's Going Down, Not Up
This is not happening only in Germany
Kevin Korte on Computers Being Allowed to Make Decisions Based on Cryptic Algorithms and Proprietary/Secret Data
It uses buzzwords where none are needed
[Meme] Garbage In, Garbage Out (linuxsecurity.com)
It is neither Linux nor security, just chatbot-generated slop
Microsoft-Invaded CISA Spreads Anti-Free Software FUD (as If Proprietary Software Has No Memory Safety Issues), Brittany Day Uses Chatbots to Amplify and Permutate the Microsoft FUD
linuxsecurity.com became an anti-Linux spam site
Microsoft Laying Off Staff in an Act of Retaliation and Union-Busting
retaliatory layoffs at Microsoft
Gemini Links 29/06/2024: Content Drowning in 'Goo' and LLM Slop
Links for the day
Windows Lost Almost 92% Market Share in Egypt
From over 99% to just over 7%
In Ecuador, GNU/Linux Adoption Surged From Under 1% to Over 4% in About 3 Years
Not even counting Chromebooks
LibrePlanet: Cultivating Backups (of Recordings)
an appeal to recover some of these talks
Microsoft/Windows Machines Are Turned Off (or Windows Deleted/Decommissioned) in Web Servers, as the "Market Share" Collapse Continues
Taking full history into account, this is a decrease of over 90% in some cases
Corwin Brust Hosting Freedom: A Behind-the-scenes Tour With the GNU Savannah Hackers
"the "smiling faces" behind it."
Android at 90% or More in Chad
Windows below 2%
David Wilson: Cultivating a Welcoming Free Software Community That Lasts
"a feeling of shared ownership for all users."
Julian Assange Might Continue Wikileaks, But Certainly Not Yet (Recovery Time Needed)
And probably at a symbolic capacity only
Bringing in 12 Santas and Taking 13 Out (Old Interview With Julian Assange)
Julian Assange's life inside the Ecuadorian embassy
Neil Plotnick on GNU/Linux in the High School Classroom
uploaded to the LibrePlanet instance of MediaGoblin
Asia Appears to be Fastest to Adopt GNU/Linux
the home of a considerable majority of the world's population
Alexandre Oliva's LibrePlanet 2024 Talk About "Software Enshittification"
in spite of technical difficulties encountered while recording
What They Used to Do With Mono They Now Do With Systemd (Lower and Deeper Down Than Userspace)
Now we have a project started primarily by Red Hat (and managed by Microsoft GitHub, which is proprietary) being managed by Microsoft and primarily serving Microsoft and IBM
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, June 28, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, June 28, 2024
Links 28/06/2024: Kangaroo Courts and Patents Spam, EFF Still Fighting for CPC's TikTok (a Digital Weapon)
Links for the day
Links 28/06/2024: Overton window and Polarization
Links for the day
[Meme] In 50 Years...
Microsoft's Vista 11 will take 50 years to be fully adopted
Only About 1 in 8 Russian Windows Users is Using Vista 11
it looks like over the past 12 months Vista 11 hardly grew and it remains very low at around 12% of Windows usage in Russia
Links 28/06/2024: More Attacks on the Press, More Censorship in Russia
Links for the day
Gemini Links 28/06/2024: Christmas Prematurely, Self-hosting
Links for the day
IBM: So Long, Suckers. Your Free OS is Now Proprietary. Pay IBM or Else.
almost exactly a year after turning RHEL into proprietary software
Vista 11 is Doomed and Despite Lack of Adoption Microsoft Already Speaks of Vapourware ("12")
"Microsoft has pulled a Windows 11 update after users reported boot loops and startup failures."
ChromeOS Reaches Highest Share in Years at the World's Most Populous Nation, Windows Now at All-Time Low of 13%
We're talking about India today
[Video] "It Is Incredible That Julian Assange Survives"
There was a positive and mutual relationship between Wikileaks and Dr Jill Stein
Never Assume That Because the Law Exists the Powerful Will Follow the Law
Who's going to hold them accountable now?
Nearly a Month Has Passed and Nobody at the Debian Project Even Attempted to Explain What Seems Like Back-dooring of Debian (and Hundreds of Distros That Are Debian-Derived)
I can cynically guess that only matters when a user with a Chinese name does it
[Video] Julian Assange Explains Wikileaks' Logistics
predating indefinite detention
IBM Was Never the "Good Guy", Just a Self-Serving and Opportunistic Money- and Power-Hungry Monopolist, Living Off of Taxpayers' Money (Government Contracts)
The Nazi Party of Germany was its second-biggest client at one point and now it's looking to profit from the work of slaves
"I Hated Working at IBM. They Were the Most Unfriendly People."
Don't forget what Watson the son did to a poor woman on a plane
State of the News (and Depletion of Journalism Online, Not Just Offline)
Newspapers are not coming back and the Web is not coming back either
GNU/Linux Consolidates in North America
Android rising a lot this year, too
[Meme] More Monopolies Granted While Patent Examiners Die (Overworking for Less Compensation)
Work more; Get less
Staff Union of the EPO (SUEPO) is Taking the New Pension Scheme (NPS) to an International Tribunal (ILOAT)
SUEPO wants more EPO staff to participate in collective action
Stella Assange and the Legal Team Speak to the Media a Day After WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Arrives in Australia
Published yesterday by a number of mainstream publishers
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, June 27, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, June 27, 2024
RIP Daniel Bristot de Oliveira, Red Hat death
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock