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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 25th, 2008

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schestowitztwitter: just noticed this one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l...   The thread has been hijacked by nothing but trolls. Watch how they attack the messenger (you) by saying something about comment ratings (which they typically game... they do the same thing in Digg).Aug 25 07:08
schestowitzStill 4 Munchkins in Digg modding down every single comment of mine. Most recent comments: http://digg.com/linux_unix/3_Must_H... http://digg.com/linux_unix/64_Stu... Aug 25 07:29
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack advertises in his blog: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...Aug 25 08:11
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baijumThe link to wiki page at bottom is pointing to a different page here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/24/prot...Aug 25 09:07
schestowitzYes, I realised this. Anivar sent it to me like this. It's part of the press release, apparently.Aug 25 09:07
baijumoh. actually that is another campaign conducted earlier (which you have covered before)Aug 25 09:08
schestowitzOh, wait...Aug 25 09:09
baijumThe current label is correct but not the hrefAug 25 09:09
schestowitzWhich link is *that*? Aug 25 09:09
baijumhttp://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_T...Aug 25 09:11
baijum^^^ labelAug 25 09:11
baijumand href also should be sameAug 25 09:11
baijumoh. the press release PDF link is also wrong :(Aug 25 09:11
schestowitzOh, I see... I copied that with the mistake.Aug 25 09:11
schestowitzMy guess is that they reused/used as template the previous press release from OOXML protests.Aug 25 09:13
baijumthere is every chance, the location and most of the campaigners also were sameAug 25 09:14
schestowitzThere were over 100 of them I'm told..Aug 25 09:15
*benJIman waves from suse offices.Aug 25 09:22
schestowitzGermany?Aug 25 09:23
benJImanYes.Aug 25 09:24
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schestowitzhttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5...Aug 25 10:55
trmancohttp://www.computerworlduk.com/toolb...Aug 25 11:01
schestowitzYes, the 'mafia' is still trying to change laws because it can't compete based on merit.Aug 25 11:03
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anivarschestowitz:  Thanks for the great coverageAug 25 11:25
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twitterGood morning.  The trolls have been busy?  Going to look.Aug 25 15:03
schestowitzWell, I commented above. Later I just weaved this in with the latest BN post.Aug 25 15:05
twitterThey are more active and obvious at Slashdot.  I would be lucky to only get four or five trolls per post.  It's probably audience size and gullibility that guides their effort.Aug 25 15:10
schestowitzThere's a new bunch of scum in USENET today.Aug 25 15:10
schestowitzIntimidation tactics I noticed again 10 seconds ago.Aug 25 15:10
twitterOh, that's worse.Aug 25 15:11
schestowitzThe Munchkind forge identities of regulars who are anonymous and then post compete details like full names, addresses, tel. #, etc.Aug 25 15:11
schestowitzThey unmask people in Linux advocacy forums to get them in trouble or drive them awayAug 25 15:11
twitterOr screw people they don't like who have no idea it happened.Aug 25 15:11
schestowitzThey have done this to 2 people so far today, multiple times even. In general, this has gone on for months and I think it helps them discourage participation. Aug 25 15:12
twitterYes, that's the primary intent.Aug 25 15:12
schestowitzI get E-mails from lurkers who are afraid of actually participating actively because of the thuggish behaviour.Aug 25 15:12
twitterEverything they can do to make things suck.Aug 25 15:12
schestowitzI'd rather they would just attack /me/ because at least that keeps the forum going (I don't really mind the slander much anymore)Aug 25 15:13
twitterESR warned the community of this.Aug 25 15:13
schestowitzI once googled "how to ruin a forum"Aug 25 15:13
schestowitzI tried to see if some people try to master the skills or not only trolling but also making people scared of taking part.Aug 25 15:13
schestowitzESR/Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz?Aug 25 15:13
schestowitzWhere?Aug 25 15:13
twitterThey have posted a lot of trolling literature but I don't think they get much consistent unpaid participation.Aug 25 15:14
MinceRif it was a forum, it could be moderated :>Aug 25 15:14
twitterOh, ESR, Years ago.  I'll dig up a link.Aug 25 15:14
schestowitzTaAug 25 15:14
schestowitzOh dear... now they attack Rex using some new nyms, pretty much threatening his with a libel lawsuit for not backing correct statements about Microsoft's OEM tactics.Aug 25 15:16
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twitter2004, http://www.catb.org/~esr/hallowe...Aug 25 15:29
twitter"  The outlines of the next stage in Microsoft's anti-open-source propaganda campaign are becoming clear"Aug 25 15:29
twitter" coexistence is not a stable solution for them, it cannot be for us either.  We have to assume that Microsoft's long-term aim is to crush our culture and drive us to extinction by whatever combination of technical, economic, legal, and political means they can muster"Aug 25 15:30
schestowitzThanks. I'm seeing it.Aug 25 15:30
schestowitzAnything there about forums or ad hominem? (I'm still reading)Aug 25 15:31
twitterNo, just a general warning that the entire culture of free software would be attacked.Aug 25 15:31
schestowitz"Expect Microsoft to ally even more closely with the RIAA and MPAA in making yet another try at hardware-based DRM restrictions "Aug 25 15:32
twitterHe also predicted linking free software to terrorism.Aug 25 15:32
twitterCompare to this internal M$ doc from about the same time.  http://iowa.gotthefacts.org/01...Aug 25 15:33
schestowitzI also expect a serious effort, backed by several billion dollars in bribe money (oops, excuse me, campaign contributions), to get open-source software outlawed on some kind of theory that it aids terrorists. We can only defeat that by making sure that national governments become so attached to open-source code that their military men and bureaucrats will short-stop the bribed legislators, rather than let their vital infrastructureAug 25 15:34
schestowitz be outlawed.Aug 25 15:34
twitterThey know that FUD and intimidation are all they have left.Aug 25 15:34
schestowitzSo, in essence "Call 'them' the terrorists, not the monopolist that bribes and whatever."Aug 25 15:35
twitterYou see what they did to Peter Quinn.Aug 25 15:35
schestowitzYes.Aug 25 15:35
schestowitzAnd others.Aug 25 15:35
twitterWhen honest government people call for action, M$ smears them and dismantles their department.Aug 25 15:35
schestowitzOr... bribes it (Nigeria for example).Aug 25 15:36
twitterThis should cause more people to revolt.  The more horrible the enemy the more they should be fought.Aug 25 15:36
schestowitzThere's a good document about Microsoft's call for "Jihad". It's referring to merciless marketing.Aug 25 15:36
twitterThey want to intimidate, but their own studies have shown it backfires.Aug 25 15:37
schestowitzI showed this to Marc Fleury and believe it or not, he didn't buy it. He made a deal with Microsoft in the past. He has an XBox.Aug 25 15:37
schestowitzWell, they produce studies by proxy.Aug 25 15:37
schestowitzYankee, Burton, Enderle... or whatever straw man/punchbag they can pay enough to take the insult.Aug 25 15:37
schestowitzLots here: vAug 25 15:38
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdfAug 25 15:38
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twitterAh yes, the slog doc.Aug 25 15:47
twitterIt's pretty good evidence of M$ tactics.  ESR predicted these would be turned against free software.  Now we see how they have done it.Aug 25 15:48
twitterAlong the lines of the advertisement you noticed, there's also the M$ AmbASSador program at US Universities that's been going on for years now.Aug 25 15:51
twitterBesides paying people to show their products in public, they target and corrupt free software advocates.Aug 25 15:52
schestowitzAny URl about this? I covered this university corruption thing before.Aug 25 15:56
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/...Aug 25 15:57
schestowitzSome here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/30/m...Aug 25 15:57
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/19...Aug 25 15:58
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/27/m...Aug 25 15:58
schestowitzThe above have evidence of Microsoft corrupting academics.Aug 25 15:58
twitterNo url, sorry, it comes from personal observation.Aug 25 16:06
PetoKraushmm, new gNewSense...Aug 25 16:09
PetoKrausi guess i am gonna try it (as a livecd ofc)Aug 25 16:10
PetoKrausjust to see what percentage of my HW is supported by OSS driversAug 25 16:10
schestowitzGobuntu will have it as an installation to all, assuming Jono Bacon was right.Aug 25 16:11
schestowitzBut it won't be called Gobuntu I suspect.Aug 25 16:11
twitterA good distribution, like Debian, will tell if non free modules have tainted your system.  VRMS will tell you about your software.Aug 25 16:12
twitterThe only thing I ever have problems with is wifi in desktops.Aug 25 16:12
PetoKraustwitter: well, Debian is not completely free eitherAug 25 16:13
twitterSure, but it will tell you when it is not.Aug 25 16:13
PetoKrause.g. closed-sourced ucodes for wifiAug 25 16:13
PetoKrausno, it actually won'tAug 25 16:13
twitterreally?Aug 25 16:13
PetoKraushttp://www.gnewsense.org/inde...Aug 25 16:13
twitterbah, what FUD.Aug 25 16:14
PetoKrausFUD?Aug 25 16:14
twitterthe non free section is not turned on by default.Aug 25 16:14
PetoKrausyes on ubuntuAug 25 16:15
PetoKrausnot on debianAug 25 16:15
PetoKrausas stated thereAug 25 16:15
twitterbullshit.Aug 25 16:15
twitterto get non free you have to put the term "nonfree" next to main in your /etc/apt/sources.listAug 25 16:15
twitterthe binary blob issue is one I'm less familiar with.Aug 25 16:16
twitterThe kernel may be released with non free modules but they scream "taint" when you load them and I don't think they load by default.Aug 25 16:20
trmancowhat is PR?Aug 25 16:23
PetoKrausyou're falseAug 25 16:24
schestowitzI think Debian loads some non-Free s/w. Else, gNewSense would not be needed.Aug 25 16:24
PetoKrausthat's true for debianAug 25 16:24
PetoKrausbut not for ubuntuAug 25 16:24
PetoKrausubuntu enables non-free by defaultAug 25 16:24
PetoKraus(flash preinstalled is prime example)Aug 25 16:24
twitterNo, GNUSense has a place as a distribution.Aug 25 16:24
PetoKrauswell, gnewsense = gnusenseAug 25 16:25
trmancohttp://www.computerworlduk.com/toolb...Aug 25 16:25
twitterUbuntu contains free software that can't be distributed in the US due to the DMCA, so it's a good place to start.Aug 25 16:25
twitterIt's also nice to have a distribution that does not waste it's time and resources with non free software and binary blobs.Aug 25 16:26
PetoKrausso, what's your point in this discussion then?Aug 25 16:27
PetoKrausthere was no FUD on the pageAug 25 16:27
twitterThat does not make Debian some kind of Novell like sneak thief.Aug 25 16:27
trmancohttp://www.linuxinsider.com/rsst...Aug 25 16:27
twitterThe FUD is implying that debian does things without you knowing about it.Aug 25 16:27
PetoKrauswell, is it true, or is it not?Aug 25 16:28
PetoKrausyes, it does them, so?Aug 25 16:28
twitterShow me where Debian will load a binary blob by default, without warning.Aug 25 16:29
twitterIn other words, prove the FUD and I'll take it seriously.Aug 25 16:29
PetoKrausshow me, where is written such a thing on gNewSense pageAug 25 16:29
twitterIf you did not believe such a thing, why would you say you need GNUSense to find out "what percentage of my HW is supported by OSS drivers"Aug 25 16:32
twitter:)Aug 25 16:33
PetoKrausbecause it's easier way?Aug 25 16:33
PetoKrausdebian doesn't have a livecd.Aug 25 16:33
PetoKrausafaik ^^Aug 25 16:33
twitterhttp://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/Aug 25 16:35
twitterI wonder if it comes with VRMSAug 25 16:36
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TallkenArticle: Red Hat, Fedora servers infiltrated by attackers < http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/po... >Aug 25 17:10
schestowitzIs it really news by now? :-)Aug 25 17:12
schestowitzBear in mind that Microsoft's hasn't a good track record, either.Aug 25 17:12
Tallkenlol just read it nowAug 25 17:14
Tallkenmy idea was to keep things balancedAug 25 17:14
Tallkendoesn't mind the attack, Fedora isn't bundling up several bugs in a disclosure just to count the number of disclosures laterAug 25 17:14
schestowitzDid they find the cause? I haven't looked yet.Aug 25 17:15
Tallkenif they did, it isn't mentioned in that articleAug 25 17:16
Tallkenbtw schestowitz, Ballmer is coming to Portugal, are you interested in the link? He's meeting Microsoft International's boss; AFAIK no meeting with local bodies, government or otherwiseAug 25 17:20
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Tallkenschestowitz, ok, the purpose of the visit is also to "establish contacts with business leaders and Portuguese" politicians [mistranslation here, Google fails to add the politicians there] -- http://translate.google.pt/translate?u=ht...Aug 25 17:23
schestowitzThanks, I'm looking now.Aug 25 17:27
schestowitzNice photo they chose for it. Which company is he working for? :-)Aug 25 17:28
schestowitzI last wrote about Portugal in < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06... > by the wayAug 25 17:29
TallkenROFLAug 25 17:29
Tallken@ MS / Novell picAug 25 17:30
Tallkenthanks for the link, though I had already taken a quick look at it :)Aug 25 17:30
schestowitzYes, it meets criticism, doesn't it? Maybe he'll talk to the minister about those laptops they buy.Aug 25 17:31
Tallkenprobably lolAug 25 17:31
Tallkento ensure they run WindowsAug 25 17:31
schestowitzHe'll want to ensure that they run Windows, not GNU/Linux. Also, schools in Portugal have the youngsters exposed to OOo, based on what I've read.Aug 25 17:31
schestowitzI bet he'll bring a big suitcase... well, or maybe just a check book with a high level of thickness. Aug 25 17:32
Tallkenhum don't know, didn't use the school's computersAug 25 17:32
Tallkenthey had XP thoughAug 25 17:32
schestowitzOOo runs on XP too.Aug 25 17:32
schestowitzIt's the applications layer that makes a migration to GNU/Linux very smoouth.Aug 25 17:33
Tallkenya but I can't remember which Office suite they hadAug 25 17:33
Tallken*office suiteAug 25 17:33
Tallkenanyway, me awayAug 25 17:33
schestowitzIt was a plan for OOo. That's where Mcirosoft stepped in.Aug 25 17:36
schestowitzIt fought back in two ways, IIRC: (1) laptops for kids; (2) something to do with free PCs (subscription) and maybe some broadband arrangement to cover it. I'd have to look at my notes.Aug 25 17:37
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TallkenArticle: Opinion: Why Google has lost its mojo -- and why you should care -- by Preston Gralla < http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar... >Aug 25 18:18
TallkenHonest review or FUD?Aug 25 18:19
schestowitzOh no..Aug 25 18:19
schestowitzSome people say that  Preston Grall is a FUD master.Aug 25 18:19
schestowitzWell, he /did/ say he would try GNU/Linux recently and his new 'colleague' SJVN had to correct him for FUD. But he wrote a good OOo review recently, so I don't know. I did see Enderle publishing some nonsense a few moments ago.Aug 25 18:20
TallkenErnderle ? who is Enderle ?Aug 25 18:21
schestowitzJust looking now. He has a bone to pick with Google, so he finds some isolated stories to piece together FUD.Aug 25 18:21
schestowitzEnderle is a Microsoft shill of the worst kind because he attacks Linux. For years! Search BN.com for "enderle" to get a taste of that piece of work.Aug 25 18:22
schestowitzJust to assist: http://www.google.com/search?s...Aug 25 18:22
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/articl...  Tell Nancy Gohring that Android will not support cassette tapes, either. I don't see what the big deal is. Wi-Fi has leapfrogged Bluetooth, never mind the effect of radiation.Aug 25 18:25
schestowitzI see some other Google FUD today, especially ones to do with intrusion of those vehicle-mounted  cameras. I'm not defending it, but I just see a surge in Google-critical content.Aug 25 18:27
twitterfair and balanced security incident reporting.  GNU/Linux 1.  Winblows billion and billions failed.Aug 25 18:52
twitterIt's like the number under the golden arches.Aug 25 18:52
schestowitzI wrote a post this morning about Microsoft's systematic lack of disclosure. It seemed like good timing.Aug 25 18:53
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/25/...Aug 25 18:54
schestowitzI published this one when the Debian/OpenSSL incidents was first reported:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/1...Aug 25 18:54
twitterDoes anyone still think they can run Windows and not get owned?  In SLOG terms, how many years do people have to sleep with a toot under their pillow before they face reality?Aug 25 18:59
schestowitzWell, Geer and others were gagged and the press still rarely talks about it. I might incite panic. It always amuses me when headlines say that the FBI shut down a botnet of 100,000 machines (recent example). That's peanuts. It's like 0.3% of them.Aug 25 19:06
twitterPanic or decisions based on correct information?Aug 25 19:08
twitterIt's not amusing.Aug 25 19:08
schestowitzThe latter. It means Windows Quarantine (C). Some people would lose their jobs.Aug 25 19:09
twitterThe other day, I installed DOS 6 on an P1 for kicks.  The splash screen talked about file security and AV.  That was from 1993.Aug 25 19:10
twitterMost people would not lose their jobs, except for gross incompetence, if the real M$ security picture were well known.  Someone would have to fix all of those broken computers.Aug 25 19:11
schestowitzI remember the Exchange server next door becoming a zombie. Also see: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/...Aug 25 19:11
schestowitzWell, they wants to fix it with TC now. You know, exclude FOSS at the same time...Aug 25 19:12
twitterIt's rather common and it's been the same old story the whole time.  People using Winblows for work routinely face weeks of outage and lost work.Aug 25 19:12
twitterTC?Aug 25 19:13
schestowitzPJ has just put up a lot of the link I had sent her this morning. She also picked the one about the broken update, where Microsoft spins the situation where it left machines remotely compromisable (bad patch).Aug 25 19:13
schestowitzTC = Trusted computing. TPM/Aug 25 19:14
twitterOh, that TC.  Good for you and PJ.Aug 25 19:19
schestowitzIt'll be interesting to see if BN.com can get more visits then GL some time in the future. It might raise tensions.Aug 25 19:20
schestowitzThis article < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.ph... > calls it 'social engineering', but a case of _visiting_ a site to become a zombie (classic IE) is o social engineering. It's ActiveX maybe. It's bad engineering.Aug 25 19:26
Tallkenwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooAug 25 19:26
TallkenwthAug 25 19:26
Tallkencan anyone confirm me that MSN Messenger 9 has compatibility with Google Talk ????Aug 25 19:27
[H]omerGreetings Comrades :)Aug 25 19:34
[H]omerBeen a whileAug 25 19:34
[H]omerWhat's new?Aug 25 19:34
Tallkenthe usualAug 25 19:35
schestowitzHey, how is it in ɹʌʃə Aug 25 19:35
[H]omerDunno, I'm in Scotland :)Aug 25 19:35
schestowitzWhere are the packets coming from?Aug 25 19:36
[H]omerVPN proxy to MoscowAug 25 19:36
schestowitzVPN?Aug 25 19:36
schestowitzOh, yup.Aug 25 19:36
[H]omerVirtual Private NetworkAug 25 19:36
schestowitzAbout time.Aug 25 19:36
[H]omerYes, and I'm stayin' here tooAug 25 19:36
schestowitzAny boy should be given a proxy for the th birthday. It's a sign of manhood.Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer:)Aug 25 19:36
[H]omerI see your sence of humour has improvedAug 25 19:36
[H]omer*senseAug 25 19:37
schestowitzDoes Dubya user VPN to surf tah Google?Aug 25 19:37
[H]omerNo, he just gets the NSA to delete his EmailsAug 25 19:37
schestowitzOr Excahnge.Aug 25 19:37
[H]omerTalking about the no-such-agency, and their pals at the MAFIAA€® ... screw them - I'm proxied. Sniff my encrypted packets now, ya b'stards ;)Aug 25 19:38
schestowitzA$$ociated Press: "Expert: White House Negligent on E-Mail [...] Rhe White House e-mail troubles began in 2002 with a decision to upgrade electronic message capabilities and move from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Exchange. "Aug 25 19:38
schestowitzAlan is being hit by Mono boosters right now: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/08...Aug 25 19:39
[H]omerHe's definitely one of the good guysAug 25 19:39
[H]omerI just noticed ... you quoted 30 words from the AP ... you owe them $600. Get yet wallet out.Aug 25 19:43
schestowitzI know, I know.Aug 25 19:43
schestowitzThe invoice will come in the mail.Aug 25 19:43
[H]omerI printed this page and distributed it around the town, for those who probably don't read the geek news, or *any* news, or don't even have a PC:Aug 25 19:45
[H]omerhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/19...Aug 25 19:45
[H]omerThe reactions have been pretty shockingAug 25 19:45
[H]omerI don't think many people realise just how much of a Police State the UK really has becomeAug 25 19:46
schestowitzHow many pounds per person would that be?Aug 25 19:46
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[H]omerGod knowsAug 25 19:46
[H]omerI'm not so much worried about how they pay for it, as the fact that it exists at *all*.Aug 25 19:47
schestowitzI thought about SSLing my connection. I mean, I correspond with my family using Wikis (not what you have in mind) and telephone is now a shared conversation. Not only that... it's stored indefinitely.Aug 25 19:47
[H]omerI haven't made or accepted a voice call in nearly three years. Yes really.Aug 25 19:48
[H]omerIn fact the ringer is turned off, so I can't even hear it.Aug 25 19:48
schestowitzBritish Government: 0.5 million snoop requests in the past year alone, IIRC. That's a lot of 'terrorist suspects,' no?Aug 25 19:48
schestowitz*LOL* Well, that sort of makes sense. I'm like that with television, although I still watch it at the gym and friend's house... kind of like I use Windows.Aug 25 19:49
schestowitz*friends'Aug 25 19:49
[H]omerI strongly suspect that the "terrorist" bullshit is not only a government lie, but was in fact *manufactured* by them to begin with.Aug 25 19:49
schestowitzI think it's a bit of oth.Aug 25 19:50
[H]omerJust as a means of introducing this Surveillance CultureAug 25 19:50
moparxhey allAug 25 19:50
[H]omerheyAug 25 19:50
schestowitz*both. Accentuation of the problems is the key. Opportunistic situation.Aug 25 19:51
schestowitzIt doesn't bother me much, but that too is an interlude to exclusion of 'unwanted' technology. Earlier we discussed 'Trusted' Computing.Aug 25 19:51
[H]omerAlex Jones had a good analogy for the "terrorist threat". He compared it to a wasp's nest being deliberately stirred up to aggravate people. And it's the government doing the stirring.Aug 25 19:52
schestowitzIs it s video? Text? URL?Aug 25 19:53
schestowitzI've seen smear campaigns against those folks. Nasty stuff what they get...Aug 25 19:53
[H]omerGoogle Video "911: Rise of the Police State"Aug 25 19:53
schestowitzGoogle Video "911: Rise of the Police StatAug 25 19:54
[H]omeryupAug 25 19:54
schestowitzhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Aug 25 19:54
schestowitzThough I don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracy, mind you.Aug 25 19:54
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[H]omerWatch that video, it might change your mindAug 25 19:54
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXMAug 25 19:55
schestowitzJones et al have something to gain from making it look so.Aug 25 19:55
[H]omerYeah well, that's just one guy's opinion. There's far too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies about 911 for the "official stories" to be believable.Aug 25 19:59
schestowitzThat may be true that many opinions exist. Still, unless there's a massive precedence of this kind (taking the dive at that scale), it seems more like wishful thinking to some.Aug 25 20:00
[H]omerNonetheless, the governments' wet dream of a Surveillance Society is coming true, under the pretext of "terrorism".Aug 25 20:02
[H]omerAnd nobody seems to have the power to stop it.Aug 25 20:02
schestowitzWell...Aug 25 20:02
[H]omerHence the need for VPNAug 25 20:03
schestowitzThat's one thing. To think they needed such a catalyst for PATRIOT is far fetched.Aug 25 20:03
[H]omerI mean one can't even take a bloody photo in public now, for God's sake.Aug 25 20:03
schestowitzThey'll ruin that dream is it's popularised.Aug 25 20:03
schestowitzSeen my post in COLA about ESR?Aug 25 20:03
[H]omerNo, I've been away from COLA for a whileAug 25 20:04
schestowitztwitter showed that to me. Halloween Document on calling FOSS communism and terrorism in order to ban or change it.Aug 25 20:04
[H]omerBeen busy with various other Civil Rights stuffAug 25 20:04
[H]omerReally?Aug 25 20:04
[H]omerLink?Aug 25 20:04
schestowitzWait.Aug 25 20:05
schestowitzSurely, the trolls attacked without minutes (the messenger).Aug 25 20:05
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os...Aug 25 20:05
schestowitzJones take the piss out of Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrnie.... *LMAO*Aug 25 20:07
[H]omerBeen watching various videos of Noam Chomsky ... interesting perspectivesAug 25 20:15
schestowitzI trust him more than I trust Jones because he's a senior and been out there investigating since the 60s, IIRC. He has seen a lot.Aug 25 20:17
schestowitzIt's a good lesson in how to tell the truth without losing credibility (strong language, exaggeration, improper analogies). Rest assured, he too is smeared like nobody's business. He's like RMS in a sense... American media keeps its distance from it, but people overseas love him.Aug 25 20:19
[H]omerIn particular I like his analogy of modern capitalism to slavery here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxYyXGMfZM&NR=1Aug 25 20:22
schestowitzI'll take a look. He uses slavery/feminism/sexism/apartheid analogies. It gets past the filter only if Murdock/Gates and other media minions are on vacation or something. Even then, the investments and obedient cronies remain. Just watch how Perens struggled to publish the truth about Microsoft and SCO, even when he presents testimonies under oath.Aug 25 20:22
schestowitz*MurdoCHAug 25 20:22
schestowitzhttp://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082... They should really stop approaching Gartner for opinions. They let those Gates-sponsors people in suits run the industry with words, instructions, and FUD.Aug 25 20:44
schestowitzhttp://tinyurl.com/65mzvsAug 25 20:54
schestowitzhttp://beranger.org/index.php?p...Aug 25 20:54
*_Doug (i=c17a2faa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-475a36e4df1d6091) has joined #boycottnovellAug 25 21:32
trmancohttp://www.goodgearguide.com.au/i...Aug 25 21:32
trmancothe second page me seem interestingAug 25 21:33
trmancomay*Aug 25 21:33
schestowitzHey, _Doug. Hey, trmanco.Aug 25 21:33
trmancoHiAug 25 21:34
schestowitzYes, I saw this some days ago and talked here about possibilities. Maybe Oracle even... although it's allergic to Free software development.Aug 25 21:34
trmancosorry I haven't been participating in the chat lately these days, been a little busy :PAug 25 21:35
schestowitzAshlee Vance, who is now moving from The Reg to NYT, said that Fujitsu would be a good suitor.Aug 25 21:35
trmancothe second page mentions Microsoft on buying SunAug 25 21:35
schestowitzWhat has happened to Sun over the years began happening to Microsoft some years ago. Microsoft may be the next Sun, or SCO...Aug 25 21:36
_DougHey there ..Aug 25 21:36
trmanco"Microsoft might want to get more involved in open source. Alternatively, "Microsoft may also view a Sun acquisition as a way to tilt the scales to Windows by phasing out Sun support for Linux," the 451 Group report says. "Aug 25 21:36
schestowitzSun doesn't even own UNIX and it has OOo. I don't see why Microsoft would need it.Aug 25 21:36
trmancoto destroy Ooo and the odf format :|Aug 25 21:37
trmancojust like what they did, and are doind to NovellAug 25 21:37
schestowitzMicrosoft is running low on cash in the bank ($26bn left and ~$20 buybacks to be depleted).Aug 25 21:37
trmancodoing*Aug 25 21:37
trmancoyesAug 25 21:37
trmancodidn't have enough money to buy out yahoo :PAug 25 21:37
schestowitzThey have possibilities, but I don't even think the FTC would permit this... unless it was corrupted (which it typically is)Aug 25 21:38
schestowitzThey needed to borrow over $20bn for Yahoo. I think Sun was worth $13bn the last time I checked.Aug 25 21:38
schestowitzNovell's market cap is around $2bnAug 25 21:38
schestowitzBTW, ODF and Sun are not Microsoft's main problem.Aug 25 21:39
schestowitzSaaS is a greater threat to them.Aug 25 21:39
trmancoSun has MYSQL Virtualbox Solaris and SparcAug 25 21:39
trmancoSaaS?Aug 25 21:39
schestowitzGoogle, Zoho...Aug 25 21:39
schestowitztrmanco: true, but what would Microsoft do with MySQL? Make it work only under Windows? It would be forked immediately. Waste of money for MS...Aug 25 21:40
trmanco-> Software as a service?Aug 25 21:40
schestowitzYes.Aug 25 21:40
trmancowell, Microsoft would simply fork it and then destroy mysqlAug 25 21:40
schestowitzIt can't. It's not like Zimbra. It's GPL.Aug 25 21:41
trmancoyou are maybe right it probably would be a waste of moneyAug 25 21:41
twitterYeah, but they can disrupt and FUD.Aug 25 21:42
trmancooh yeah I forgot about GPL :|Aug 25 21:42
schestowitzMicrosoft could even fork MySQL now and improve/rebrand it, for what for? The margins of SQL Servers are orders of magnitude higher.Aug 25 21:42
schestowitzAlso, MySQL is good for Web apps. Microsoft /hates/ those. And they hate Microsoft. : - ) That's why they would fork.Aug 25 21:42
twitterThe M$ people have claimed all along that Sun and IBM not free software or their obsolete business model are the cause of their problems.Aug 25 21:43
schestowitzReally?Aug 25 21:43
trmancoyep you are rightAug 25 21:43
schestowitzWell, Ballmer said Linux is the #1 threat.Aug 25 21:43
twitterTheir disruptive activities on websites tell a different story.Aug 25 21:43
schestowitzIBM is no longer enemy numero uno.Aug 25 21:44
twitterYes, but they pretend they can defeat it if they nail a few companies.Aug 25 21:44
trmancohe also said that Linux was like a cancerAug 25 21:44
schestowitzOzzie later said that FOSS is a greater threat than Google.Aug 25 21:44
schestowitztrmanco: the world would be a better place if Ballmer got a little Linux.Aug 25 21:44
trmancoI little, Give him a full doseAug 25 21:45
twitterTheir whole business model is based on big dumb company being a better programmer than the community.  They have to pretend the success of GNU/Linux is due to IBM, Sun and others.Aug 25 21:45
twitterThey said it at the SCO trial.Aug 25 21:45
trmancomaybe the little penguin would start putting some good sense into his brainAug 25 21:45
twitterThey say it when they attack OOAug 25 21:45
schestowitzThey brainwashd some people with this.Aug 25 21:45
schestowitzAsay tells me that too...Aug 25 21:46
twitterAsay?Aug 25 21:46
schestowitzThat without the big corps, Linux would be nowhere. I guess he never heard of Debian.Aug 25 21:46
schestowitzAsay, yes... the man who hates Linux and loves Mac and 'open source'Aug 25 21:46
twitterOr wikipediaAug 25 21:46
twitteror internet archiveAug 25 21:46
schestowitzWikipedia has elites, just like Debian. They are like a virtual volunteer corpAug 25 21:47
twitterWhen does Asay tell you these things?Aug 25 21:47
twitterWikipedia, Debian and other projects are self organizing and use no force.Aug 25 21:47
schestowitzWhen he says shit about GNU/Linux and I mail him. He drinks the Kool-Aid. He thinks everything from Forbes is words to be carved in stone.Aug 25 21:48
twitterThe reward comes from the task and the collective results.Aug 25 21:48
twitterGot a link to this Asay person?Aug 25 21:48
twitterForbes, ha ha.Aug 25 21:48
twitterIt's kind of like Playboy.Aug 25 21:49
schestowitzBut... butt... Microsoft is 'king of computing'Aug 25 21:49
schestowitzOver 90% of all computers (*cough cough* Desktop? What source? Net Apps?)Aug 25 21:49
twitterWhere does this joker write that you run into it and feel compelled to ask him his opinions?Aug 25 21:50
schestowitzForbes is like Hustler, only for 'adulter' adults with more money than potence.Aug 25 21:50
schestowitzHe writes for CNET that's the thing.Aug 25 21:50
schestowitzIt's a Microsoft media portal, owned by Paul Allen (Micfrosoft co-founder). They do some Mac too and it reaches news feeds, so it annoys me when Asay repeats the Big Lie he reads..Aug 25 21:51
twitterBroadcast has been very bad for democracy.  The internet is starting to restore balance and decentralize power built up over a century.  That is why we are headed to a police state.Aug 25 21:51
twitterCNET should just be another web site.Aug 25 21:52
schestowitzYes, they sufferAug 25 21:53
schestowitzSacked 10% of the staff recently.Aug 25 21:53
twitterYet there's more internet news than ever.Aug 25 21:53
schestowitzZiff Davis? Gone. Bankrupt. Some popular magazine quit paper and now prostitute themselves with Microsoft ads on Linux content.Aug 25 21:53
schestowitzI used to write for Jupitermedia, but not anymore because of those Microsoft ads I can't stand.Aug 25 21:54
twitterIt's taking time for people to find new sources of news and entertainment but they are doing it.Aug 25 21:55
twitterTelco and broadcasters are doing everything they can to stop it.Aug 25 21:55
schestowitzDemocratization and decommoditisation of knowledge and information. Reports are shared among peers/commons, not producers (few elites) and 'consumers)Aug 25 21:55
schestowitzRMS said years ago that people should drop media as a source and just subscribe to blobs they can trust.Aug 25 21:56
twitterHe's right.Aug 25 21:56
twitteragain.Aug 25 21:56
schestowitzWell, he said this in 2005 at the latest.Aug 25 21:56
schestowitzRight not I just write a lot in my own blogs. I can't stand working for editors who chop off bits that are 'too' critical of a monopoly abusers, DESPITE court evidence supporting what I write.Aug 25 21:57
twitterEditors that don't provide truth ruin their credibility.Aug 25 21:58
schestowitzHere's how it works. At the top you have some Murdoch or investor like Gates and below you have some obedient editors ('yes men') shooting down things they don't like. That's mainstream media for ya! Walla!Aug 25 21:59
twitterThey don't give you enough time or the tools to research either, do they?Aug 25 22:00
schestowitzWhat do you mean? Please elaborate.Aug 25 22:00
schestowitzTravel and all?Aug 25 22:01
twitterThis was my general impression back when I took a journalism class.Aug 25 22:01
twitterthe motto was "desperate for type"Aug 25 22:01
schestowitzThese days, journalists sit on an armchair  and read what other journalists write, then repeat them (and the corporate-funded PR people, e.g. Gartner).Aug 25 22:01
_DougWell yea .. tel me something I don't know ..Aug 25 22:02
twitterEditors want column inches.  That gives the reporter time only for the most superficial of research.Aug 25 22:02
twitterThey also thought that the average person only had 15 minutes a day for news.Aug 25 22:03
_DougThe 'news' is written by some PR department and then distributed .. editors like this, as it saves them from having to type .. :)Aug 25 22:03
schestowitzYes, "just send me E-mails" attitude.Aug 25 22:03
_DougBit it's the same 'news' all day, on al lthe channels, the exact same news, only spoken by different heads .. :)Aug 25 22:04
twitterHigher quality blogs prove that average was only there due to the poor quality "news" that was offered.Aug 25 22:04
schestowitzThe smart ones read many blogs.Aug 25 22:04
twitterYes, things are changing.Aug 25 22:04
schestowitzKatherine Noyes.Aug 25 22:04
schestowitzECTAug 25 22:04
schestowitzShe published some good article about Linux yesterday.Aug 25 22:04
_DougTrouble the Media is producing its own pretend blogs ..Aug 25 22:05
schestowitzThat said, I was warned that ECT stole Linux Insider from someone else. That's when it started with the Enderle and Didiot FUD.Aug 25 22:05
schestowitzThey also give room for Gartenberg (Microsoft shills and former formal evangelist for Microsoft), Murphy and other such stooges)Aug 25 22:06
schestowitz_Doug: they don't have the capacity to drown out the rest.Aug 25 22:06
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack is hardly noticed.Aug 25 22:06
_DougBut it does serve to pollute the record and yes there are groups of bloggers hired to keep forums on msg ..Aug 25 22:07
twitterIt also screws up search engines.Aug 25 22:07
schestowitzWell, Jack /does/ make a front pages with an attack on Slashdot and those who read it.Aug 25 22:07
twitterLook for "Vista failure" and you find a bunch of Wintel crap.Aug 25 22:08
schestowitztwitter: yes, to an extent. As long as Microsoft is not the gateway (Google is), its known mischiefs of manipulating search results, i.e. information, won't last.Aug 25 22:08
_DougI can't be bothered even mentioning <nul>Aug 25 22:08
twitterAll they had to do was publish a few articles with the term in it and boom, those articles took over.Aug 25 22:09
twitterThis can be done for any term.Aug 25 22:09
twitterBefore they did that the Vista Failure Log was one of the top results.Aug 25 22:10
schestowitzBN.com has strong presence, but the problem is that things on Google News take precedence, I think.Aug 25 22:10
schestowitzGoogle is also said to be gaming the SERPs a bit. I once (or twice) wrote about how they allegedly used it against ODF. One who reported this to me said it could be former Microsoft employees gaming Google from inside or outside.Aug 25 22:11
schestowitzI can find this if you are interested.Aug 25 22:12
twitterhey, it's been a while "Vista failure log" digs up this http://www.microsplot.com/blog/2008...Aug 25 22:12
twitterHe he, the dude found the "Oh the monopoly" picture.  :)Aug 25 22:13
twitterI think I've seen something you wrote about that, a M$ mole or two at Google.Aug 25 22:15
schestowitzI;ve just subscribed to that blog.Aug 25 22:15
schestowitzNice Firefox pic in the front page BTW.Aug 25 22:15
twitterIt's hard to believe algorithmic tuning could be as effective as the simple crap flood that the Wintel people and old media unleashes every day.Aug 25 22:16
schestowitzWell, the 'Microsoft' feed on Google News is very busy.Aug 25 22:17
_DougSo people try and game Google results .. ?Aug 25 22:29
*moparx_ (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellAug 25 22:30
schestowitzCompanies.Aug 25 22:30
_DougYea, takes time and effort ..Aug 25 22:33
*moparx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 25 22:42
_Dougbyeee ..Aug 25 22:46
*_Doug has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Aug 25 22:46
twitterHmmm, this may be a primary benefit of Munchkin activity.  They can fill up blogs with links back to Wintel press.  That will game Google.Aug 25 22:46
twitterAdded that list of 100 reactions to the Vista Failure Log http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo...Aug 25 22:47
schestowitzYes, I'm going to link to it tomorrow. Never seen it before. :-SAug 25 22:47
twitterand the Vista Consensus opinion article http://slashdot.org/~twitt...Aug 25 22:47
twitterIt's very good.  Hundreds of articles all arranged by Vista reaction.Aug 25 22:48
twitterHaving them all in one place shows the magnitude of Vista's rejection.Aug 25 22:48
schestowitzHey. It rhymed.Aug 25 22:49
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleepAug 25 22:52
twitter911 and Chomsky.  Good bedtime movies.Aug 25 22:54
schestowitzYeah, but not suitable for BN. I'll just stick to DTPAug 25 22:55
twitterthat's trueAug 25 23:01
schestowitzIt's also unavailable in a free format like Ogg. Some readers don't like it.Aug 25 23:02
twitterI saw a video of Chomsky denying Republican 911 conspiracy theories on the basis of plausibility.  He did not think it was possible to coordinate without being caught.Aug 25 23:03
twitterI prefer theora myself.  I think there is free software available for mp4, it just can't be distributed in crazy places like the US.Aug 25 23:06
schestowitzI just posted a Helois video. :-) Latest links, posted seconds agoAug 25 23:07
twitterIf you come across media in a crappy format, try ffmpeg2theoraAug 25 23:08
schestowitzYes, I know, but it takes me time.Aug 25 23:09
schestowitzCopytights are sometimes an issue as well.Aug 25 23:09
twitteryeah, but then you can't host it in any format.Aug 25 23:09
schestowitzLike this one at the bottom (it has a nice song attached to it).. [wait... can't get to it]Aug 25 23:11
twitterHmmm, that Chompsky video.  Does it have more than a still frame and audio or does my player suck?Aug 25 23:12
twitterRise of the police state works.Aug 25 23:13
schestowitzI'm not sure which URL. Post it here.Aug 25 23:14
schestowitzI'll post this one later: http://www.linux-foundation.org/we...  )(might be good for failurelog)Aug 25 23:15
schestowitzHere's the video I was going to mention. I have many promotional ones on BNAug 25 23:15
schestowitz[H]omer made it BTWAug 25 23:16
twittermight me, going to lookAug 25 23:17
twitterSteve Ballmer says they should have used Chris Farley instead of Jerry.Aug 25 23:27
twitterHe's got the hots for Dana Plato too.Aug 25 23:27
twitterI can imagine a few really funny not used Mojave clips.  Bad flashbacks to lost data and BSoD from previous M$ OS.  Putting your life into Vista is probably worse than drinking crap coffeeAug 25 23:29
schestowitzPutting you life in it is one thing. Getting it outta there is another.Aug 25 23:32
twitterexactlyAug 25 23:32
schestowitzIt's not /versions/ that made Windows more profitable. It's the lock-in. Just watch what they did to WP (WordPerfect, not WordPress). Lockin, lockin, lockin, at all costs. Bribe, bribe, bribe, no matter the consequences. Slime, slime, slime; when accused of a smear campaign, call them "paranoids".Aug 25 23:34
twitterthat's the SLOGAug 25 23:35
*Tallken (i=f2f93bf5@78.130.65.193.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellAug 25 23:37
schestowitzSlime, not slog!! :-)Aug 25 23:40
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 25 23:55
*libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellAug 25 23:58

Comments

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