IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 29th, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-10-30 10:09:52 UTC
Modified: 2008-11-09 21:43:09 UTC

jose	"As things are, if we make an "invention" (and don't patent it), we open it up to the world to use (like BSD), but if MS creates one (and patents it), we can't use theirs. In both cases, a person stood on shoulders of giants, but only one of these "inventors" allowed others to stand even higher ..and it was the nice inventors (FOSS) that ended up with the short end of the stick! That is bad way to reward innovation -- a fundamental s	Oct 29 00:01
jose	crew-up of patent law."	Oct 29 00:01
schestowitz	Not destroy the broken law and preserve sane laws?	Oct 29 00:02
*schestowitz reads.		Oct 29 00:02
schestowitz	Do you know how much a patent costs to garden?	Oct 29 00:03
jose	i'm all for destroying broken PUKE laws.. but see what i wrote	Oct 29 00:03
jose	yes, i know that is not pretty	Oct 29 00:03
schestowitz	It's a law created by the wealthy, for the wealthy.	Oct 29 00:03
jose	actually could you enlighten	Oct 29 00:03
schestowitz	We should post it in BN for some feedback maybe.	Oct 29 00:03
jose	what would costs be like	Oct 29 00:04
jose	research and write-up could be free in a sense	Oct 29 00:04
jose	and lawyers might participate	Oct 29 00:04
jose	actual filing fees and other costs?	Oct 29 00:04
*schestowitz done reading		Oct 29 00:05
jose	maybe we could do a shared partnership where nonFOSS can pay	Oct 29 00:05
schestowitz	Patents are hugely expensive and time consuming.	Oct 29 00:06
jose	and the cosponsor (covering costs) would get a good percentage of such royalties	Oct 29 00:06
jose	for regular dev, yes	Oct 29 00:06
schestowitz	FFII works to eliminate swpats and related laws, whereas OIN does a Mixican shootout type-thing.	Oct 29 00:06
jose	actually, IBM patented something along the lines of using patents to protect small businesses or FOSS	Oct 29 00:06
jose	i agree with ffii	Oct 29 00:07
jose	that is why i wanted opinions	Oct 29 00:07
jose	to lay everything on the table	Oct 29 00:07
schestowitz	Don't fire fire with fire. You'll get BURNED. :-)	Oct 29 00:07
jose	i know that	Oct 29 00:07
jose	yet we fight copyright with copyleft	Oct 29 00:07
schestowitz	Don't wrestle with a pig... you both get dirty, but only the pig enjoys it.. or the TROLL.	Oct 29 00:07
jose	i've heard that one before here.. :-)	Oct 29 00:08
schestowitz	Yes, not mine.	Oct 29 00:08
schestowitz	Tim O'Reilly used it last year (borrowed it from someone).	Oct 29 00:08
schestowitz	Is it patented? :-)	Oct 29 00:08
jose	i don't want to attempt wasting times on patents	Oct 29 00:09
schestowitz	Nobody is willing.	Oct 29 00:09
jose	but if we were going to do it.. if it could work out practically.. then you'd want to win that game if possible	Oct 29 00:09
jose	i am not	Oct 29 00:09
schestowitz	FOSS is popular because programmers love code.	Oct 29 00:09
jose	but	Oct 29 00:09
jose	some people don't mind	Oct 29 00:09
schestowitz	Filing stupid papers and hiring lawyers is a chore.	Oct 29 00:09
jose	they may want incentives though	Oct 29 00:09
schestowitz	Only Novell devs do such nonsense.	Oct 29 00:10
jose	the license would be set up so that anyone could step up and do the chore though	Oct 29 00:11
jose	and we would all benefit	Oct 29 00:11
jose	it's like the gplv3 i think	Oct 29 00:11
jose	except to add more lubrication in our favor	Oct 29 00:12
jose	like foss, anyone can pick it up and run with it	Oct 29 00:12
jose	and like gpl, we'd all be guaranteed to benefit	Oct 29 00:12
schestowitz	Who would volunteer to just file for patents?	Oct 29 00:13
schestowitz	And this still isn't protection from trolls.	Oct 29 00:13
jose	some people might volunteer. if we could play that game well.. to lead to MAD, then more would be willing to take time to lend a hand	Oct 29 00:14
jose	trolls would be unsafe if we get enough and if they ever want to use real software for anything in their lives	Oct 29 00:14
jose	personally, i would like to add that "interests" in a company filing for patents puts you at stake	Oct 29 00:15
jose	i wish the gpl had done that	Oct 29 00:15
jose	if the license is open ended enough, it would really accel MAD	Oct 29 00:16
jose	sure, we wouldn't get IBM contributions	Oct 29 00:16
jose	i think this is dealing with puke, but maybe under the right circumstances, we might get a lot of support.. users contributing would benefit .. like with FOSS, most would benefit except a small fraction (shrink-wrapped/ patent mongers)	Oct 29 00:18
schestowitz	How about a peripheral 'patent' body?	Oct 29 00:19
jose	?	Oct 29 00:19
schestowitz	Like online patent placements?	Oct 29 00:19
schestowitz	Make a farce of USPTO	Oct 29 00:20
schestowitz	Say it is an unlawful illegitimate institute.	Oct 29 00:20
jose	but what would be force	Oct 29 00:20
jose	well, "saying" would not be enough by itself	Oct 29 00:20
schestowitz	have you inventions RECOGNISED and DOCUMENTED elsewhere. That's what it's all about, no?	Oct 29 00:20
jose	if you don't file, i think you lose out on monopoly rights	Oct 29 00:21
schestowitz	Patents are a certificate symbolising some recognition mfor achieving some mental, well... fart.	Oct 29 00:21
jose	officiall file	Oct 29 00:21
schestowitz	Like emoticons, cookies, and one-click shopping.	Oct 29 00:21
jose	copyrights: auto; patents: not.. leads to the unfairness for foss	Oct 29 00:21
schestowitz	Or PgUp/PgDn (key for paging)	Oct 29 00:21
jose	no, the danger is the legal enforcement of monopolies	Oct 29 00:22
jose	we can market that foss innovates, but that is different	Oct 29 00:22
schestowitz	If you can document ideas in some Wikis as you go along (not just in source code), then maybe you can assert something in the form of a /statement/	Oct 29 00:22
jose	yes, maybe that would be a way forward, but the formality is what adds protection to fight	Oct 29 00:23
schestowitz	I think of something else.	Oct 29 00:23
jose	btw, i think the asserting is puke .. it's all puke..	Oct 29 00:23
schestowitz	Trolls aside, if you can accumulate lists of things an aggressor does but never patented, then you can slam them.. well, verbally to to speak, not with the assistance of US law.	Oct 29 00:23
jose	we may be able to get help from puke dealers if we give incentives	Oct 29 00:24
jose	like that for royalty payment cases,they get a cut	Oct 29 00:24
schestowitz	The only money in patents is bullying and litigation.	Oct 29 00:24
schestowitz	bad name for FOSS..	Oct 29 00:24
schestowitz	Like defending the GPL, but much worse cause you don't approach with violation of your own CODE.	Oct 29 00:25
schestowitz	Just IDEAS.	Oct 29 00:25
schestowitz	That said...	Oct 29 00:25
jose	copyright faces same issues except that it is free to acquire and is less broad in scope	Oct 29 00:25
schestowitz	You are on to something because..	Oct 29 00:25
schestowitz	Some guy from FFII thought about creating his own patent troll to attack Microsoft Office.	Oct 29 00:25
jose	that would help neutralize Microsoft	Oct 29 00:25
schestowitz	You could set something up.	Oct 29 00:25
jose	that cases exists today	Oct 29 00:25
jose	the issue is will those with the patents play along	Oct 29 00:26
schestowitz	Then buy patents that Office violates and attack Microsoft with them... just to make a statement.	Oct 29 00:26
schestowitz	As he puts it, "go for removal of product from market" (Microsoft Office)_	Oct 29 00:26
jose	right, i'm surprised this hasn't happened to date	Oct 29 00:26
schestowitz	Yes, I know that exists.	Oct 29 00:26
schestowitz	But if it comes from a troll-like aggressor that's targeting one of the biggest pro-swpats lobbyinst, then..	Oct 29 00:27
jose	10 patents a month focused on MSO would get the laws changed tout de suite	Oct 29 00:27
schestowitz	*lobbyist	Oct 29 00:27
jose	fighting is costly though	Oct 29 00:27
schestowitz	FFII might be able to get funding, but I'm not sure.	Oct 29 00:27
schestowitz	You need to just fish for the right patents but also hire lawyers.	Oct 29 00:28
jose	messy.	Oct 29 00:28
schestowitz	jose: you can just threaten them, no fight.	Oct 29 00:28
jose	puke is messy	Oct 29 00:28
schestowitz	LXER has a page too.. hold on.	Oct 29 00:28
jose	yeah	Oct 29 00:28
schestowitz	http://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.ph...	Oct 29 00:28
jose	so do we need anything further than what we have today?	Oct 29 00:28
schestowitz	Patents Microsoft may be infringing...	Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz	"Patent Region Patent NR Title	Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz	EP 0,689,133 Method of displaying multiple sets of information in the same area of a computer screen	Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz	EP 0,195,098 System for reproducing information in material objects at a point of sale location	Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz	US 6,167,394 Information management system with remote access and display features	Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz	EP 0,537,100 A method of implementing a preview window in an object oriented programming system"	Oct 29 00:29
jose	so, i'll repeat:	Oct 29 00:30
jose	do we need anything further than what we have today?	Oct 29 00:30
jose	anyway, that license suggestion may not hurt if done right and it could certainly help put some patents in our corner	Oct 29 00:30
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 29 00:31
jose	it's pukacious	Oct 29 00:31
schestowitz	We need to respond.	Oct 29 00:31
schestowitz	Microsoft is crumbling and it'll probably go aggressive directly, or by proxy (IV et al)	Oct 29 00:31
jose	minimum, we should be able to pressure a scenario where all FOSS becomes immune to patents.. though defining the scope of "FOSS" might get tricky	Oct 29 00:32
jose	we have the arguments on our side, but we might still need fire	Oct 29 00:32
schestowitz	What is FOSS?	Oct 29 00:33
jose	to get laws to change as they should	Oct 29 00:33
schestowitz	A lot of OSS is semi-proprietary	Oct 29 00:33
jose	in this case that may not hurt	Oct 29 00:33
schestowitz	I'drather limit things to Free software (GPL).	Oct 29 00:33
jose	since the result would be non patent enforcement over anything	Oct 29 00:33
schestowitz	FOSS may not deserve special treatment, but Free software has the political element that's more vengeful.	Oct 29 00:34
jose	i'd rather that gpl not be allowed on closed platforms like windows	Oct 29 00:34
schestowitz	I'll do a post about it tomorrow.	Oct 29 00:34
schestowitz	Also on that E-mail.	Oct 29 00:34
schestowitz	Microsoft is trying to devour FOSS	Oct 29 00:34
schestowitz	Blackboard tries the same thing, but that's another separate story.	Oct 29 00:34
schestowitz	Blackboard is funded (was funded) by Microsogft	Oct 29 00:35
schestowitz	Part of the same toxic waste pretty much..	Oct 29 00:35
schestowitz	The criminals still snub the EU regulators: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquire...	Oct 29 00:37
jose	the monopoly provisions of patent laws are too strong.	Oct 29 00:38
jose	this is something that could get watered down, but in a way where foss is still not off the hook	Oct 29 00:38
jose	yet we couldn't stop ms from putting out mso	Oct 29 00:38
jose	various watering down efforts could leave us weak	Oct 29 00:39
schestowitz	Public optnion matters.	Oct 29 00:39
jose	if people were "building and sharing with FOSS", we would have much more leverage	Oct 29 00:40
schestowitz	To talk about activism for a moment, I mainly read and write stuff.	Oct 29 00:40
schestowitz	I don't go out to the streets to protest physically.	Oct 29 00:40
schestowitz	But with awareness comes a wider response and it's our better change...	Oct 29 00:40
schestowitz	Remember Chris' "Sue me Fisrt" from last year?	Oct 29 00:40
jose	think so	Oct 29 00:40
jose	website got taken down right	Oct 29 00:41
schestowitz	If you show people how ugly a company has become using patent threats, they will naturally die off.	Oct 29 00:41
schestowitz	Microsoft is said to be gaming many sites to paint itself as a good company. it fools a lot of people. Gates and his bogus 'Fundation' too... joint by the press he owns.	Oct 29 00:41
jose	if people don't use foss and if we don't have weapons, i think we will have the rules changed so that we are vulnerable	Oct 29 00:42
schestowitz	If people understand who runs the company -- "criminals", depending on who you ask, including sources close to the company -- then people will avoid Microsoft.	Oct 29 00:42
jose	many elements within the foss community want to form friendship bonds with ms	Oct 29 00:42
jose	we can't even get our own house in order	Oct 29 00:43
jose	money has influence	Oct 29 00:43
schestowitz	"Sue me First" was actually about people signing up for Microsoft to sue them (for Linux violations). A way of saying Microsoft is BSing.	Oct 29 00:43
jose	yeah	Oct 29 00:43
schestowitz	The system is corrupt too.	Oct 29 00:43
jose	memory is refreshed	Oct 29 00:43
schestowitz	RMS is spending a lot of his time these days educating people about the umrella that permits abusive monopolisation and corruption.	Oct 29 00:44
schestowitz	The current economic collapse too is a result of corruption.	Oct 29 00:44
schestowitz	At the very top level.. imposed by those macro-economists who overlooked the system at a World Bank-level.	Oct 29 00:44
schestowitz	BN has had some successful impact in helping people realise and remember who Microsoft is.	Oct 29 00:45
schestowitz	That's what makes Microsofters like Miguel de Icaza so uncomfortable about the site.	Oct 29 00:45
jose	byfield wrote a "neutral" article about BN	Oct 29 00:45
schestowitz	haha.	Oct 29 00:46
schestowitz	Did you see Sam's article? It took me by surprise.	Oct 29 00:46
jose	and wrote another about rules of engagement but i didn't read it	Oct 29 00:46
jose	which	Oct 29 00:46
schestowitz	Bruce just attacked the site. Pillock.	Oct 29 00:46
schestowitz	jose: yes, he told me he would wr	Oct 29 00:46
schestowitz	jose: yes, he told me he would write that second article too.	Oct 29 00:46
schestowitz	http://www.itwire.com/content/vie...	Oct 29 00:47
schestowitz	Miguel de Icaza called Sam a "Jihadist" IIRC, so he didn't take that well.	Oct 29 00:47
schestowitz	When he saw the Linux.com he must have reacted also as defence for his own side.	Oct 29 00:48
schestowitz	Give it a year, give it two	Oct 29 00:48
schestowitz	When the trolls use Mono and other "Free" Posionware to attack GNU/Linux, then they'll try to deny that people knew in advance.	Oct 29 00:48
jose	the prob with mono isn't that i will use it. it's that it could grow to encompass too much and of decent quality (in theory). overall, it would take away resources from the safer and more strategic foss	Oct 29 00:51
schestowitz	yes, it's happening already.	Oct 29 00:52
schestowitz	Banshee, Moonlight, Tomboy...	Oct 29 00:52
schestowitz	They will sooner or later claim that all the 'cutting-edge' apps are using the 'cutting-edge' MSMONO	Oct 29 00:53
jose	schestowitz, just sent you another (short) email.	Oct 29 01:00
jose	the added reading info is not that short though.. (can skip article if want though it's kind of interesting)	Oct 29 01:00
jose	no need to read now	Oct 29 01:00
jose	the comments	Oct 29 01:01
jose	roy, the comments may not be that clear, sorry, but ask away if you want	Oct 29 01:05
schestowitz	No, it's clear.	Oct 29 01:06
schestowitz	I think that given this documented conversation and the notes, there's a good post coming.	Oct 29 01:06
schestowitz	I'll also discuss this with FFII if I get the chance.	Oct 29 01:06
jose	i sent you another link (2nd email), but i was looking over that and it isn't clear at all.. so don't worry	Oct 29 01:08
jose	it's complicated to explain that project	Oct 29 01:09
jose	without tangible material	Oct 29 01:09
schestowitz	What Free software needs is not just code.	Oct 29 01:10
schestowitz	It needs protection for the existing stuff too.	Oct 29 01:10
schestowitz	KDE development is already stifled by patents (e.g. Apple stuff)	Oct 29 01:10
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jose	schestowitz, let me add something..	Oct 29 01:55
schestowitz	OK	Oct 29 01:55
jose	the incentive to those writing up the patents can exist	Oct 29 01:55
jose	because there is a business model of selling propri licenses to third parties that pay	Oct 29 01:56
jose	where you own copyrights to say gpl code (so they'd have incentive to pay for special licenses).	Oct 29 01:56
jose	this is where the patent writers can pull in their royalties (even if tiny)	Oct 29 01:56
jose	plus, many would have as an incentive to tap into ms'	Oct 29 01:57
jose	closed source monopoly	Oct 29 01:57
jose	pricing	Oct 29 01:57
jose	as long as there is closed source	Oct 29 01:57
jose	there would be potential for royalties	Oct 29 01:57
jose	cause otherwise, you are right, there might be less than zero motivation for almost anyone to do the bulk of writing up a patent	Oct 29 01:57
jose	i can even see law and engineering students contributing	Oct 29 01:58
schestowitz	What about trolls?	Oct 29 01:58
jose	what specifically?.. you mean our protection from them?	Oct 29 01:58
jose	well, a shell corp might be safe if they don't use closed software for very much	Oct 29 01:58
jose	but we can go after those owning a stake in such companies	Oct 29 01:59
jose	we'd neutralize ms at least	Oct 29 01:59
jose	ie, if you own a stake in a company that attacks, you lose your protections for the software you use	Oct 29 01:59
jose	then trolls would be isolated	Oct 29 02:00
jose	rather than be leveraged as the loophole they represent today for getting around gpl3 or whatever	Oct 29 02:00
jose	if it is MAD for enough people laws can change	Oct 29 02:00
jose	will change	Oct 29 02:00
jose	but we want protection from what they might be changed to	Oct 29 02:01
jose	if possible	Oct 29 02:01
jose	i don't like puke, but this might simply be an extra tool	Oct 29 02:01
jose	and puke sweepers might handle the dirty work for us	Oct 29 02:01
jose	we'd benefit and they would too	Oct 29 02:01
jose	trolls could always be a problem, but by themselves, laws would change i think	Oct 29 02:02
jose	anyway, the best part is that the license would set up the framework .. it would create a lot of food for those that want to play the patent game.. but with FOSS safe in proportion to more participating to gather up that food.. i mean puke	Oct 29 02:03
jose	i think	Oct 29 02:03
schestowitz	Will you market is as P.U.K.E.?	Oct 29 02:07
jose	MAD fro PUKE	Oct 29 02:08
jose	PUKEs	Oct 29 02:08
schestowitz	I still think that trolls can only be made toothless and clawless through systenmwide changes.	Oct 29 02:08
jose	this may help accel to that point while giving us strength along the way and creating something that can counter ms more effectively in the meantime	Oct 29 02:08
jose	you are right that this would have to be marketed	Oct 29 02:09
schestowitz	Who will sign up and based on what premise/promise?	Oct 29 02:09
jose	Well, today, you can't come up with a patent unless you invent.. this would open up a framework allowing you to patent what you see in exchange for immunity and maybe even giving the project a perce cut of royalties taken against closed source	Oct 29 02:10
jose	of course, most patents are bogus	Oct 29 02:10
jose	ok, maybe we can add something about retaining rights to also use the patents	Oct 29 02:11
jose	it would be co-owned so that any party could use it	Oct 29 02:11
jose	otherwise, ms would leverage this and not sue itself, etc	Oct 29 02:11
jose	no that didn't make sense	Oct 29 02:11
jose	there are details to be ironed out for sure	Oct 29 02:12
schestowitz	It sounds like OIn	Oct 29 02:12
jose	allowing offensive use would attract puke sweepers	Oct 29 02:12
schestowitz	That's of no use.	Oct 29 02:12
schestowitz	Well, as phrased above anyway	Oct 29 02:12
jose	we'd have coverage for all foss	Oct 29 02:12
jose	instead of just linux or some limited set	Oct 29 02:13
jose	but what is "all foss"?	Oct 29 02:13
jose	details details	Oct 29 02:13
jose	if it was like oin, it would be different in that contributions would projects could be used by patents created by others because of co-ownership	Oct 29 02:14
jose	or rather, the inventor would get the patent	Oct 29 02:14
jose	but with an auto license that the ones writing it up would get access to royalty fees -- that would be their incentive	Oct 29 02:15
jose	the inventors have to be the patent owners i think based on us patent law	Oct 29 02:15
jose	details	Oct 29 02:15
jose	this way	Oct 29 02:15
jose	prior art	Oct 29 02:15
jose	would not just be useful in court to refute attacking patents	Oct 29 02:15
jose	but could actually be seized ahead of time to create a patent for us	Oct 29 02:15
schestowitz	From trolls too?	Oct 29 02:16
schestowitz	Microsoft could use its proxies.	Oct 29 02:16
schestowitz	Although it becomes too transparent	Oct 29 02:16
schestowitz	If Microsoft attacked from IV, it would be too obvious.	Oct 29 02:16
schestowitz	So the proxy, much like some exposed lobbying arms, is rendered useless.	Oct 29 02:16
schestowitz	SCO comes to mind	Oct 29 02:16
jose	well, that is why i mentioned that the auto protection would extend to users that did not attack or own interests (define?) in attackers	Oct 29 02:16
jose	so all foss users would gain license unless you attacked (like existing clauses)	Oct 29 02:17
jose	this is a little confusing now hold on	Oct 29 02:17
jose	ok, you see an invention	Oct 29 02:17
jose	that falls as contribution under this license	Oct 29 02:18
jose	you write up a patent which would be filed under the inventor(s) name	Oct 29 02:18
jose	you auto get access rights to royalties	Oct 29 02:18
jose	royalties to what?	Oct 29 02:18
jose	well, all "foss" users would be immune from royalties unless they violated as just stated (eg, ownership in troll)	Oct 29 02:19
jose	also, closed source software users would not get an auto license but would have to deal with the person that has those rights	Oct 29 02:19
jose	some amount of royalties would be reserved for the project/inventor	Oct 29 02:19
jose	the writer would get the rest	Oct 29 02:20
jose	the inventor would also be able to seek royalties in case the writer didn't (eg, to neutralize ms)	Oct 29 02:20
jose	remember, foss users and devs are safe if they don't attack or own trolls	Oct 29 02:20
jose	closed source and violators would be subject to having to license (probably for royalties)	Oct 29 02:21
schestowitz	I'll need to think about it.	Oct 29 02:21
jose	this would be a direct and immediate way to combat Microsoft's closed source supported monopolies	Oct 29 02:21
schestowitz	What about Apple?	Oct 29 02:22
jose	we might have a clause to deal with the agpl effect	Oct 29 02:22
jose	apple would need licenses sure	Oct 29 02:22
jose	and the patent writer or the inventors could come after apple	Oct 29 02:22
jose	if apple does the closed source thing.. which they do today	Oct 29 02:22
jose	anyway, so this would be a direct weapon against the powerful closed source monopolies	Oct 29 02:23
jose	foss safe	Oct 29 02:23
jose	and the royalties incentive would get many patent writers quickly to our side	Oct 29 02:23
jose	building strategic patents and patents useful to bring closed source monopolies down quicker	Oct 29 02:24
jose	and the foss devs would for the most part do nothing different than what they have been doing	Oct 29 02:24
jose	coding	Oct 29 02:24
schestowitz	It's more important to kill the FUD	Oct 29 02:24
schestowitz	Microsoft won't sue quite soon, but it'll use extortion.	Oct 29 02:24
jose	and maybe helping out a bit with the patent.. since they know they might get some money	Oct 29 02:24
schestowitz	Pressure on vendors like Red Hat and fear in customers' minds.	Oct 29 02:25
jose	this gives us a larger amount of defensive FUD	Oct 29 02:25
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 29 02:25
jose	red hat could say, yeah, but ms violates 2000 patents	Oct 29 02:25
jose	that where we have a license and they don't	Oct 29 02:25
jose	the pressure would more quickly mount to use open source (defined?)	Oct 29 02:26
jose	not shared source, btw	Oct 29 02:26
jose	and this would help tackle the monopoly issue that the antitrust auth have been powerless against for so long	Oct 29 02:26
jose	ms cannot sustain their effectiveness if they go open source	Oct 29 02:27
jose	and if they will use monopoly money against us, we might as well get a cut	Oct 29 02:27
jose	:-)	Oct 29 02:27
jose	I'm getting simply MAD about this	Oct 29 02:27
schestowitz	Red Hat already has OIN	Oct 29 02:27
jose	Patents U Kan Enherit	Oct 29 02:27
jose	i know that's bad	Oct 29 02:27
schestowitz	I'm just a little tired (2:30AM)	Oct 29 02:28
jose	awful actually	Oct 29 02:28
jose	i have to go too	Oct 29 02:28
schestowitz	We should continue this tomorrow.	Oct 29 02:28
schestowitz	gn	Oct 29 02:28
jose	maybe tomorrow it will make more sense	Oct 29 02:28
jose	gn	Oct 29 02:28
jose	rh has oin.. this would be a framework that could be used to grow oin faster and larger.. it could also end up giving foss projects royalties	Oct 29 02:29
jose	i know who'd thunk i'd be talking about royalties to foss projects when we are such enemies of patents	Oct 29 02:30
jose	using patent law against them.. by leveraging numbers, we could show how useless and unfair the system is	Oct 29 02:30
jose	remember, today, patents are built separately not in collaboration	Oct 29 02:30
jose	and the inventors frequently don't participate, losing out on an opportunity for oin defense for example	Oct 29 02:31
jose	since in us law at least, the inventor must be the one to file	Oct 29 02:31
jose	it's adding lubrication to the system	Oct 29 02:31
jose	leveraging foss for patents as we already do for copyrights	Oct 29 02:32
jose	foss community that is	Oct 29 02:32
jose	the bottom line is that if we are going to be attacked by patents, and if we can leverage our numbers to give ourselves more leverage, and if a byproduct could mean that attackers like microsoft/"interop" are more quickly neutralized, and if in the process foss projects and inventors might gain some money, and we'd get patent writers on our side, then maybe we should seize the op	Oct 29 02:34
jose	roy, if we find a way to really tilt the system to our side, then all of those with ideas working on ways to marginalize foss will lose their appetite and have to agree with us or at least go back to the drawing board	Oct 29 02:38
jose	greasing the wheels of patent collaboration can help take us from a weak number (eg) 8 position right to the top of the race	Oct 29 02:39
jose	AND we can give the writers protection themselves	Oct 29 02:40
jose	this would get a bunch more patent contributions for foss, eg, from ibm and others	Oct 29 02:41
jose	they would have incentives to participate on our defense as much as possible, else someone else scoop up the opportunity and charge them a fee later on.	Oct 29 02:41
jose	ie, patent writers that participated could get some protection for their own closed source products.. ah, nevermind, this would offer strong monopolies a way to get out of this	Oct 29 02:42
jose	details details details	Oct 29 02:42
jose	???	Oct 29 02:42
jose	note that we are not penalizing commercial foss as ms is doing (eg, red hat and others). we'd be charging for those that would keep around their closed source monopolies.. which would have given them monopoly pricing power	Oct 29 02:46
jose	this is pretty much how dual licensing is used sometimes: stay foss and you are fine, or go closed but pay a fee.	Oct 29 02:47
jose	imagine if foss devs, rather than merely producing prior art, could end up in a partnership to make royalties from closed source, while someone else does the dirty work (in exchange for some rights)...	Oct 29 02:49
jose	that is a fairer deal to our devs.. less like the patent equiv of public domain that exists today and instead be more like the gpl which has teeth	Oct 29 02:50
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jose	roy, the great idea went down in flames	Oct 29 03:11
jose	mad means you don't attack	Oct 29 03:11
jose	if we did, then foss would have problems	Oct 29 03:11
jose	which means no pressure against closed source	Oct 29 03:11
jose	well, it would maybe if the company didn't have patents	Oct 29 03:12
jose	without the royalty incentive (eg, from a big fish like ms), then patent writers would have few motivations i think	Oct 29 03:12
jose	whatever.. tomorrow i'm busy almost the entire day but maybe something else will come up.. the concept of collaborating on patents might still be useful.	Oct 29 03:14
jose	eg, if the costs aren't too high, people might still want to contribute for free since this would give us a concrete weapon as a hedge (stronger than simply prior art)	Oct 29 03:15
jose	gn	Oct 29 03:16
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MinceR	geekings	Oct 29 08:43
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*tessier makes a submission to /.		Oct 29 10:09
schestowitz	Which one?	Oct 29 10:09
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tessier	Which one what?	Oct 29 10:12
tessier	Which /.?	Oct 29 10:12
schestowitz	Heh. No, what story?	Oct 29 10:12
tessier	Oh....the little known story of the downfall of Linspire	Oct 29 10:12
schestowitz	Are you still in touch with Robert?	Oct 29 10:12
tessier	Michael Robertson?	Oct 29 10:12
tessier	http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2008/1...	Oct 29 10:12
schestowitz	Oops. yes.	Oct 29 10:13
schestowitz	Hehe. Let me see.	Oct 29 10:13
tessier	No, I've never really been "in touch" with him. I never liked the guy. Real asshole.	Oct 29 10:13
tessier	Although I have his email and he and I are both on an mp3-alumni mailing list where all of us former employees still chat about stuff.	Oct 29 10:13
tessier	I had a couple potential opportunities to work for him again but I've always passed, even when I was hurting for work.	Oct 29 10:14
schestowitz	What a mess.	Oct 29 10:14
tessier	Wow, past 3am. I gotta be at work in almost 5 hours. Time to sleep. night!	Oct 29 10:14
schestowitz	GN	Oct 29 10:14
schestowitz	Iceland seeks aid from ECB, Fed; hikes interest rate to 18 pct < http://afp.google.com/article/... >	Oct 29 11:03
schestowitz	How predictable... "More Election Shenanigans - Check Your Registration NOW" < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/28/52849 >	Oct 29 11:06
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schestowitz	Funny cartoon : http://vistasucks.files.wordpress.com/20...	Oct 29 11:59
MinceR	:>	Oct 29 12:04
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/20... "With just a week to go before the US presidential election, academics, politicians, and voters are voicing increased distrust of the electronic voting machines that will be used to cast ballots."	Oct 29 12:05
schestowitz	Amazing!! "Stevens faces a maximum of 35 years in prison. But he's a Senator. So nobody is actually expecting any jail time." < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/28/t... >. This system is corrupted beyond belief.	Oct 29 12:08
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schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph... "Bruce your ability to offend people and then disingenuously crying wolf does not amuse... "	Oct 29 12:11
schestowitz	'This was a common trick by Rob Enderle [...] Back in the anti-trust trial/sco trial days; put out something that is nothing more than flame-bait and then cries of "poor me" or worse "those open-source meanies".'	Oct 29 12:11
schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st...	Oct 29 12:11
schestowitz	' Ah brucy [...] He must be torqued off about the backlash from his boycott-novell article on Linux.com. Here's news for you bruce: It's not just FOSS.'	Oct 29 12:12
schestowitz	"The fact is the FOSS community is a community plagued by fears; fears about Microsoft, sellout Linux vendors, patent trolls, SCO, Apple, you name it. And when people get afraid, they get irrational, and everyone starts looking suspicious."	Oct 29 12:12
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twitter	:) see there? you did not have to write anything about BB at all.	Oct 29 14:30
twitter	The last quote gets it backward. It would be irrational to not be suspicious of unrepentant, convicted felons like M$. They are powerful, so it takes real bravery to call them out.	Oct 29 14:32
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_Doug	How to track a teenager hacker :)	Oct 29 15:18
_Doug	01. Go on social networks	Oct 29 15:18
_Doug	02. Go on Youtube	Oct 29 15:18
_Doug	03. Go to the hacker website	Oct 29 15:18
_Doug	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi...	Oct 29 15:18
_Doug	:)	Oct 29 15:18
schestowitz	Hey	Oct 29 15:21
_Doug	hey dude are u a hak0r :)	Oct 29 15:22
_Doug	shoosh .. don't tell anyone on Facebook :]	Oct 29 15:22
_Doug	what's missing from this 'report' is the computing ecosystem all these hacks run on ...	Oct 29 15:23
schestowitz	"Ecosystem" is a bad word... like "blogosphere" it should be loathed.	Oct 29 15:24
schestowitz	Ecosystem is what I call shillcosystem. It's a grouping of vested interests.	Oct 29 15:25
_Doug	hacksystem ?	Oct 29 15:25
_Doug	hackosystem ??	Oct 29 15:25
_Doug	"Bosses must stop leaving data security to the "IT boys" and other staff and take responsibility themselves"	Oct 29 15:26
_Doug	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...	Oct 29 15:26
_Doug	It's the bosses that are the source of the problem ..	Oct 29 15:26
_Doug	if they let the 'IT boys' do their job, then their wouldn't be all these data losses	Oct 29 15:27
schestowitz	Oh, I see...	Oct 29 15:27
_Doug	like leaving MI5 secret laptops on the train	Oct 29 15:27
schestowitz	So you're referring to non-technical people who have a hardon for Exchcnge?	Oct 29 15:27
_Doug	who in their right mind walks around with confidential datas on a laptop, on a USN key, or posts it through the Rayal MAil ???? !!!!!!	Oct 29 15:28
schestowitz	Or people who choose technology based on brochures and "someone to point a finger at" when things go awry?	Oct 29 15:28
schestowitz	A hacker. :-)	Oct 29 15:28
schestowitz	*cracker, sorry	Oct 29 15:28
_Doug	quote: 'Windows 2000 has X zillion of lines'	Oct 29 15:29
schestowitz	From the video?	Oct 29 15:29
_Doug	I have to sit there while some brain dead CIO reads me out loud from PC world ..	Oct 29 15:29
schestowitz	Well, it's the Beeb	Oct 29 15:29
schestowitz	From the media channel that says transistors are tiny computers	Oct 29 15:29
_Doug	no, thast quote is from real life ..	Oct 29 15:29
schestowitz	IDG?	Oct 29 15:30
schestowitz	PCWorld?	Oct 29 15:30
schestowitz	They are IDG (IDC), you know?	Oct 29 15:30
schestowitz	Wintel press, funded partly by Microsoft through studies and all...	Oct 29 15:30
_Doug	It was how they described the power of W2K, in terms of number of lines ..	Oct 29 15:30
_Doug	HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAA	Oct 29 15:30
_Doug	It was how they described the power of W2K to the pointy haired ones, in terms of number of lines	Oct 29 15:31
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/06/...	Oct 29 15:31
_Doug	that's how they vost programmers, in terms of number of lines they can bang out per hour ..	Oct 29 15:32
_Doug	'they cost'	Oct 29 15:32
schestowitz	Yes.	Oct 29 15:32
schestowitz	So if someone removes many bugs, the measurable progress is low.	Oct 29 15:33
schestowitz	http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/con...	Oct 29 15:34
benJIman	_Doug: Noone sensible does.	Oct 29 15:34
benJIman	Good programmers often have a negative line count per hour.	Oct 29 15:34
_Doug	it's just a metric they come up with thet the PHB would understand .. lines of code .. good grief ..	Oct 29 15:35
_Doug	.. LINES OF CODE ..	Oct 29 15:35
_Doug	'How to track a teenaged hacker' .. they call this hacking .. more like scribbling graffiti on a wall ..	Oct 29 15:37
twitter	W2K source code, "we are morons" http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2...	Oct 29 15:37
twitter	show that to the boss.	Oct 29 15:37
_Doug	and no mention of the root cause of the 'hacking' phishing virus infestation ..	Oct 29 15:37
_Doug	this is all so 1993 .. :)	Oct 29 15:38
_Doug	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/	Oct 29 15:38
_Doug	Clippy is having the worst day of his life ... over and over again ..	Oct 29 15:39
twitter	Poor choice of software by ill informed decisions is the only thing you should blame the user for in security problems.	Oct 29 15:39
_Doug	and who chooses the software .. not the IT 'boys' to be sure ..	Oct 29 15:39
twitter	For example, users should not have to worry about lost data on portable devices if the device is encrypted.	Oct 29 15:39
_Doug	some fucking idiot who believes the ability to read makes him qualified to make IT related decisions ..	Oct 29 15:40
twitter	Sure, M$ based decisions come from the top, like the London stock exchange fiasco.	Oct 29 15:40
schestowitz	:-)	Oct 29 15:40
schestowitz	The 'IT boys' chose Vistaserver for stock markets?	Oct 29 15:40
schestowitz	That's begging for a black screen of you-know-what	Oct 29 15:41
twitter	Begging for a Black Tuesday.	Oct 29 15:41
twitter	ahhh!	Oct 29 15:41
_Doug	I don't think so .. the management consultants choos it, most probably ..	Oct 29 15:41
schestowitz	Furse?	Oct 29 15:42
twitter	The person who chose M$ for the LSE was not an IT person nor qualified to make the decision.	Oct 29 15:42
twitter	The proof is in the performance.	Oct 29 15:42
schestowitz	Furse should not resign, she should be sacked : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09...	Oct 29 15:43
schestowitz	London Stock Exchange in denial over system outage : http://www.computerworlduk.com/management/it-bu...	Oct 29 15:43
twitter	Just the same, we should not blame the user for nasty breaches of security. Decision makers and M$ are to blame for the most part.	Oct 29 15:43
schestowitz	The LSE has crashes many times since then... but not in the technical sense.	Oct 29 15:43
schestowitz	FTSE is back up today... above 4000	Oct 29 15:43
schestowitz	About those Windows Live Messenger outages… : http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1585	Oct 29 15:44
_Doug	who was it that one said the Internet was to important to be left to the propellerheads ?	Oct 29 15:45
_Doug	"To be sure, the CIO (not on the board) is ex-Accenture man David Lester"	Oct 29 15:46
schestowitz	Who said "Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey"?	Oct 29 15:46
_Doug	well that explains it ..	Oct 29 15:46
_Doug	if you want to kill an IT project hire on EDS and Accenture to run it ..	Oct 29 15:46
twitter	I'll be happy if we don't suffer a depression over a few companies that deserve to fail. I just don't see how it can be avoided with the current concentration of wealth and all the factories being in China.	Oct 29 15:46
_Doug	have EDS and Accenture bid to run Chimas IT infrastructure, :)	Oct 29 15:47
schestowitz	Moto headcount... ? "Sanjay Jha, co-CEO at Motorola, is planning another round of layoffs in the mobile division as the group struggles to reduce the range of supported platforms from the existing 15 to something a little more manageable." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/...	Oct 29 15:47
schestowitz	At least they are joining Android.	Oct 29 15:47
schestowitz	Convergence at last. They can bring their stack parts to OHA.	Oct 29 15:48
schestowitz	There was an article in El Reg about the NHS failure the other day.	Oct 29 15:48
schestowitz	Their wasting of like 12 billion pounds could save some banks, no?	Oct 29 15:48
schestowitz	Privacy bomb: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1...	Oct 29 15:49
_Doug	luckly most perscription medicines has no effect ..	Oct 29 15:50
_Doug	:)	Oct 29 15:50
schestowitz	Links dump for old news.. http://www.internetling.com/2008/10/28/50-resour... ... any use for just that, unless it's all news?	Oct 29 15:53
schestowitz	HOWTOs too.... who actually looks for very specific HOWTOs among the news, just because they are newly-published?	Oct 29 15:53
twitter	Here's an ongoing troll fest. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010345 Dedazo and Macthorpe are the same person. It's funny to watch him try to outbid himself as the biggest troll.	Oct 29 15:55
schestowitz	BN is going to surpass 100 GB of traffic tomorrow... for October.	Oct 29 15:55
twitter	:)	Oct 29 15:55
schestowitz	Why do they bother.	Oct 29 15:56
schestowitz	Shills4shils	Oct 29 15:56
schestowitz	Defend the other dunces uv' the emporer.	Oct 29 15:56
_Doug	"If you change tabs To spaces, you will be killed doing so fucks the build process!"	Oct 29 15:56
schestowitz	*emperor	Oct 29 15:56
_Doug	"ACHTUNG!!! this is a special hack for IBM antivirus software"	Oct 29 15:57
twitter	They are the same person, obviously. I wonder if AlexGr is the same person too. Maybe BB. Who knows?	Oct 29 15:57
_Doug	'CallProc32W is insane. It's a variadic function that uses the pascal calling convention. (It probably makes more sense when you're stoned.)'	Oct 29 15:58
MinceR	windows?	Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz	Microsoft Response to Zsulik's Comments : http://slashdot.org/comme...	Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz	What is he like, a spokesman for Redmond now?	Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz	LOL http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2... "By Peter galli"	Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz	Galli is now a Microsoft employee	Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz	He used to do their dirty jobs in the press (Ziff/Gates)	Oct 29 16:00
schestowitz	Controversy Swirls Around Changes in GPLv3 [...] By Peter Galli	Oct 29 16:00
schestowitz	It would be nice to see a nice list of eWeek articles from (now) Microsoft employee Peyte Galli	Oct 29 16:01
schestowitz	He threw a lot of FUD.	Oct 29 16:01
schestowitz	http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Sou... "But ACT (the Association for Competitive Technology), which has previously been accused of being an association founded and cultivated solely to protect Microsofts interests in Washington, views the issue differently."	Oct 29 16:03
twitter	Nasty little trolls don't like being exposed.	Oct 29 16:03
twitter	ha ha	Oct 29 16:03
schestowitz	Nice one, Pete. Quoting a Microsoft shill arm/pressure group... < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/08/ass... >. If you have time, it's worth studying these 'moles' http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09... http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/04/...	Oct 29 16:04
_Doug	"UBERSOFT. We Patent, So You Can't"	Oct 29 16:16
_Doug	http://www.groklaw.net/article...	Oct 29 16:16
schestowitz	UK's €£12.7 billion NHS scheme in trouble : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui...	Oct 29 16:16
schestowitz	This is the third one in recent days... http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/... http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/200...	Oct 29 16:18
schestowitz	"Currently the only thing saving the project is the high cost of cancelling contracts with IT suppliers. In other words, the government has wasted so much dosh already, it might as well try to plug in the lemon."	Oct 29 16:19
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_Doug	only a geek would understand this 'void initRand();' as a random link ..	Oct 29 16:19
_Doug	http://www.ubersoft.net/void-initrand	Oct 29 16:19
_Doug	only it isn't :o	Oct 29 16:19
_Doug	"the only thing saving the project" .. the Titanic defense .. if we keep going fast enough, we won't hit an iceberg	Oct 29 16:20
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_Doug	Android flaw due to use of Open Source components say security researchers ..	Oct 29 16:56
_Doug	"The vulnerability is due to the fact Google did not use the most up-to-date versions of all these packages,"	Oct 29 16:56
_Doug	http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22291...	Oct 29 16:56
_Doug	"Because Android relies on some 80 different open-source components, keeping track of security disclosures and bug fixes could prove difficult, potentially leaving the platform open to future attacks"	Oct 29 16:56
twitter	12.7 billion pounds? does it really cost that much to sftp dicom files?	Oct 29 16:57
schestowitz	It's more than that.	Oct 29 16:57
twitter	Because M$ depends on hundreds of different secret source components, keeping track of anything has proved difficult.	Oct 29 16:58
twitter	"In other words, this particular security vulnerability that affects the G1 phone was known and fixed in the relevant software package, but Google used an older, still vulnerable version." ick, if true.	Oct 29 17:00
twitter	I'm having a hard time getting through the clueless parts.	Oct 29 17:00
MinceR	i wonder how distros manage to keep track of security disclosures and bug fixes then	Oct 29 17:00
MinceR	oh wait, they do it better than microsoft ever has.	Oct 29 17:00
_Doug	'12.7 billion' ? wha ?	Oct 29 17:01
schestowitz	Boycott Novell...Big in Japan... http://sourceforge.jp/magazine/0...	Oct 29 17:01
twitter	It's funny how M$ uses the poor security record to tar other companies.	Oct 29 17:01
twitter	cool, but I have no idea what they are saying.	Oct 29 17:02
twitter	Doug, see Roy's NHS link. http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...	Oct 29 17:03
schestowitz	The number has been out for like a year.	Oct 29 17:03
schestowitz	twitter: I have no idea even what /I/ am said to be saying. I don't really speak Japanese.	Oct 29 17:04
schestowitz	I installed Skype this morning. it's embarrassing.	Oct 29 17:05
MinceR	seems to be signed by Byfield though	Oct 29 17:05
twitter	http://babelfish.yahoo.com/transla...	Oct 29 17:06
twitter	Sorry to hear about skype problems.	Oct 29 17:06
MinceR	looks like a translation of an article someone has already linked here.	Oct 29 17:07
twitter	Gnome netmeeting became Ekigia (sp). KDE's chat has web cam stuff but not for all protocols.	Oct 29 17:07
_Doug	"Quite, like whether you do not know the fatigue of, Schestowitz "	Oct 29 17:07
_Doug	:)	Oct 29 17:07
schestowitz	twitter: no, there's no problem. But I've avoided Skype cause it's proprietary. This time I have no choice cause the phone system is dysfunctional.	Oct 29 17:08
schestowitz	twitter: I checked Ekiga the other day. The Windows client (for peers) is still in Beta, so...	Oct 29 17:08
MinceR	skype isn't merely proprietary	Oct 29 17:08
MinceR	it's a black box	Oct 29 17:09
schestowitz	_Doug: is that the translation?	Oct 29 17:09
MinceR	i'd go as far as to call it spyware	Oct 29 17:09
schestowitz	Yes, I know.	Oct 29 17:09
schestowitz	Surveillance on phones is the same though... it's a black box too.	Oct 29 17:09
_Doug	translation, yes	Oct 29 17:09
schestowitz	Top-priority projects list from the FSF includes a Skype substitute.	Oct 29 17:10
twitter	The translation is just as verbose as BB native, but it makes a little more sense that way.	Oct 29 17:10
schestowitz	Govts. /LOVE/ Skype	Oct 29 17:10
schestowitz	They must be getting back doors to it.	Oct 29 17:10
schestowitz	There\s evidence abound.	Oct 29 17:10
twitter	Boycott Novell has expressed “great crack is borne”	Oct 29 17:10
schestowitz	And in China the Govt. stalks the textual chats, based on word triggers.	Oct 29 17:10
twitter	China has that cute little cartoon cop to make sure people don't use dirty words like freedom.	Oct 29 17:11
schestowitz	Haha.	Oct 29 17:12
schestowitz	Yes, I know that one.	Oct 29 17:12
schestowitz	http://images.google.com/images?um=1&am...	Oct 29 17:13
schestowitz	Novell boosted with its OOo fork.. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/...	Oct 29 17:15
twitter	a little too real for me http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/i...	Oct 29 17:19
schestowitz	Articles like this < http://www.convergedigest.com/standards... > absolutely FLOOOOODED the news. Why is it so newsworthy? We didn't hear when the other companies joined. Did /. push this agenda too? 'Open' Microsoft?	Oct 29 17:21
_Doug	Other members of the AMQP Working Group include Cisco, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Boerse Systems, Envoy Technologies Inc., The Goldman Sachs Group, iMatix, IONA Technologies, J.P. Morgan, Novell, Rabbit Technologies Ltd., Red Hat Inc., TWIST Process Innovations Ltd., WSO2 and 29West Inc ..	Oct 29 17:22
schestowitz	Has RMS ever traveled to China? I know he was afraid of Russia,	Oct 29 17:22
_Doug	Look who isn't there .. about two only software companies ..	Oct 29 17:22
twitter	EWeek Articles by Peter Golly Golly 4/24 of this year. http://www.eweek.com/cp/bio/Peter-Galli/	Oct 29 17:22
schestowitz	_Doug: yes, not a word about it. Then Microsoft joins and the news is FLOODED by praises for the Vole.	Oct 29 17:22
_Doug	IONA .. used to be big in online commerce solutions ..	Oct 29 17:23
_Doug	sorry, three software companies, MS, Novell and Red Hat ..	Oct 29 17:24
schestowitz	twitter: lots of Microsoft stuff. Hardly ever critical at all.	Oct 29 17:24
twitter	Yeah, but they end on 4/24. Missed the word end above, my bad.	Oct 29 17:25
schestowitz	MS agenda-pushing: portuno_diamo: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/corpor...	Oct 29 17:26
schestowitz	Someone warned me about that " portuno_diamo" character the other day	Oct 29 17:26
schestowitz	http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/I... ... Just like OLPC... shoot first, then pretend to have apologised. Intel's gangster-like behaviour is still being concealed being logos and images.	Oct 29 17:31
_Doug	notice how being rebuffed by Yahoo was another good stratigic decision on behalf of MS .. they're right even when they're wrong :)	Oct 29 17:32
_Doug	"Matters would be different had Microsoft bought Yahoo during late first quarter .. Instead, Microsoft is flush with cash	Oct 29 17:33
_Doug	"	Oct 29 17:33
_Doug	but they had to borrow to finance the3 Yahoo takeover .. and the bid still isn't over ..	Oct 29 17:34
_Doug	"perhaps ironically, the economy will do for Microsoft what it couldn't competitively: Eliminate troublesome Web 2.0 platform companies"	Oct 29 17:34
twitter	portuno_diamo is that guy for real? Is Joe Wilcox for real? Clueless.	Oct 29 17:34
twitter	M$, ignoring the internet since 1995.	Oct 29 17:35
twitter	That's a competitive advantage.	Oct 29 17:35
_Doug	explain what magic sauce MS lives on that it is immune to the economic downturn ..	Oct 29 17:35
twitter	WORD.DOC, ha ha	Oct 29 17:35
_Doug	"The economic blight will kill many trees in the forest. Microsoft will replace them."	Oct 29 17:35
twitter	Google and ODF sail along.	Oct 29 17:35
twitter	Windows market share must be falling by now.	Oct 29 17:36
twitter	I visited LSU's Student Union yesterday. Every other laptop was a Mac.	Oct 29 17:36
twitter	Zero Vista seen.	Oct 29 17:37
schestowitz	twitter: it does (market share falls)	Oct 29 17:37
_Doug	Microsoft slugs aged care centres ..	Oct 29 17:38
_Doug	http://www.australianit.news.com.au/s...	Oct 29 17:38
twitter	Wilcox sez, " Microsoft couldn't be bringing its cloud services to market at a better time. For many cash-strapped businesses, hosted versions of Exchange, SharePoint and other Microsoft server software will be hugely appealing, particularly when reducing staff and management costs. "	Oct 29 17:39
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twitter	What a moron. There are plenty of email providers, including google.	Oct 29 17:39
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 29 17:39
schestowitz	The site is biased though.	Oct 29 17:39
_Doug	why will 'the cloud' be more sucessfull than Google Apps ?	Oct 29 17:40
twitter	It's also a huge FU to MSCEs	Oct 29 17:40
schestowitz	Because the Slog sez so	Oct 29 17:40
twitter	fail	Oct 29 17:40
_Doug	"tried, true and supported commercial software matters more when times are tough"	Oct 29 17:40
schestowitz	LOL	Oct 29 17:40
schestowitz	And rain is good... well, for the garden	Oct 29 17:40
twitter	then he suggests moving to new untried commercial software	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	Clouds are dangerous	Oct 29 17:41
_Doug	"Microsoft Releases Emergency Critical Patch" http://www.crn.com/security/211600229	Oct 29 17:41
_Doug	:)	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	Remember DRM/MSN shop for music?	Oct 29 17:41
twitter	half his success companies are web 1.0 survivors.	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	Shut down	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	Music dead	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	The Register had something... wait	Oct 29 17:41
schestowitz	"When you hit the quota...it's possible we will block access to your site," Microsoft's Manuvir Das told PDC after a session, Lap Around Windows Azure. Das did try to reassure potential developers blocking was not guaranteed, but noted: "We have the capability to do that and may have to do that." < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... >	Oct 29 17:42
PetoKraus	haha beranger :D	Oct 29 17:42
schestowitz	What did he do this time?	Oct 29 17:43
PetoKraus	it happened to me once; we didn't mention a guy for about a half a year	Oct 29 17:43
PetoKraus	and it turned out he read the logs of the channel	Oct 29 17:43
PetoKraus	but was afraid to come in	Oct 29 17:43
PetoKraus	and the day he was mentioned, he actually came in to defend himself	Oct 29 17:43
schestowitz	Who's that?	Oct 29 17:44
PetoKraus	poor old sod, reading trough heaps of rubbish	Oct 29 17:44
schestowitz	Novell employees sometimes come here.	Oct 29 17:44
PetoKraus	Beranger reminded me of this	Oct 29 17:44
PetoKraus	Beranger: come in, don't worry, you may as well say something useful!	Oct 29 17:44
_Doug	benJIman .. wassup ?	Oct 29 17:44
PetoKraus	(http://beranger.org/index.php?page=dia...)	Oct 29 17:44
schestowitz	LOL	Oct 29 17:45
PetoKraus	touche, i say	Oct 29 17:46
_Doug	ot: see 'Joe the Plumber' work his brain ..	Oct 29 17:52
_Doug	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA	Oct 29 17:52
_Doug	and 'Joe the Plumber' isn't really a plumber :)	Oct 29 17:52
PetoKraus	it's a fake.	Oct 29 17:53
PetoKraus	obviously	Oct 29 17:53
PetoKraus	from the first glimpse.	Oct 29 17:54
PetoKraus	i just don't know whether McCain or Obama hired him	Oct 29 17:54
_Doug	I suspected that as well .. Joes is just too primed .. it's just he has no real come-back to Obama ..	Oct 29 17:54
PetoKraus	i ain't suspecting. I am sure. the moment you see high school girl students posting pro-obama posts on facebook	Oct 29 17:55
PetoKraus	you pretty much don't believe anything is real.	Oct 29 17:55
_Doug	"Joe the Plumber is now Joe the foreign policy advisor?"	Oct 29 17:57
_Doug	http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/...	Oct 29 17:57
_Doug	IS this a spoof ?	Oct 29 17:57
schestowitz	Still a few days left for dirty tricks.	Oct 29 17:57
schestowitz	The McCain video I posted made it into FSDaily's front page,	Oct 29 17:58
schestowitz	Here's something I don't get. Microsoft unveiled Web-based Office years ago (almost 2)... and it failed to attract user by its own admission.. they they remake old news... http://www.pcworld.com/articl...	Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz	Sun too did this with OpenSolaris... 'announcing' it a zillion times saying "This is IT! This is THE release." After some powwow in the press, which thought it was really news, there was nothing.	Oct 29 18:01
schestowitz	And same with Vista 7.	Oct 29 18:01
schestowitz	Microsoft showed some 'leaked' (fake 'leaks'.. like viral blogs) of Vista 7 before.	Oct 29 18:01
schestowitz	It's a Vista with some selective screen captures of new buttons, wallpapers and slapstick.	Oct 29 18:02
schestowitz	Vista 7 IS Mojave. It's Vista under another name.	Oct 29 18:02
_Doug	'THE Labor Party has removed all speeches from the lead-up to the last election from its website amid claims of plagiarism in politics .. "We are just trying to keep the website as up to date as possible," Mr Bitar said. '	Oct 29 18:06
_Doug	http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0...	Oct 29 18:06
schestowitz	Linux-based smartphone now just $179.99 : http://www.pcworld.com/article/152... (take that, Apple)	Oct 29 18:08
schestowitz	But Google's Android is faux-source	Oct 29 18:08
schestowitz	You can't build the s/w for other phones. Same with Chrome, AKAIK.	Oct 29 18:08
schestowitz	*AFAIK	Oct 29 18:08
schestowitz	Apple and Microsoft hand in glove: http://www.pcworld.com/article/15... ( iTunes 8 to Vista: Give Me a B, an S, an OD )	Oct 29 18:10
schestowitz	Fujitsu Cuts Financial Outlook on Tough Market, Strong Yen < http://www.pcworld.com/article/15297... >	Oct 29 18:11
_Doug	keeping the campaign clean: tying Obama to middel-eastern terrorists ..	Oct 29 18:11
_Doug	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9LxOMX57kOc	Oct 29 18:11
schestowitz	The US needs someone more respected. As someone said to me, this year's candidates are both iffy. Palin and McCain are much worse.	Oct 29 18:14
_Doug	McCain called Obama too intellectual ?	Oct 29 18:17
schestowitz	It's weird that David M Williams covers a story like this: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21410/1054/ He's very pro-Linux. Weird...	Oct 29 18:18
_Doug	"MYOB .. is being re-engineered using leading edge Microsoft technologies"	Oct 29 18:22
_Doug	wha ?	Oct 29 18:22
_Doug	"MYOB makes the move to SQL Server, .NET "	Oct 29 18:23
_Doug	is this the same leading edge technologies that powers the NHS and the LSE ?	Oct 29 18:24
schestowitz	iSoft outsources NHS work to India: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/e...	Oct 29 18:25
schestowitz	"But despite having placed its offices close to Manchester's three main higher education institutions, iSoft's chief executive, Patrick Cryne, admitted yesterday that much of the software manufacturing work will be done at its new facility in Chennai (Madras), India. "	Oct 29 18:25
schestowitz	NHS Scotland pools budget for Microsoft savings < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >	Oct 29 18:26
_Doug	I wonder what they gave MYOB to 'invest' in SQL.NET	Oct 29 18:26
schestowitz	http://radar.oreilly.com/20... "We can not afford to take the risk of a Vice-President (especially for a candidate as old as McCain) who is scornful of science, denies human involvement in creating climate change, and is completely unprepared to tackle this most urgent of problems."	Oct 29 18:28
_Doug	MYOB, only on Mac or longVista 7	Oct 29 18:28
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schestowitz	LongVista. I like that. They tried to dodge the LH name around 2005 when it collapsed and got direputed.	Oct 29 18:37
trmanco	http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/technology/b...	Oct 29 18:53
schestowitz	Brilliant post from Adam Williams about Ubuntu: http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/...	Oct 29 18:53
schestowitz	trmanco: I don't bother mentioning Vista 7. That, too, will go the way of the dodo	Oct 29 18:54
trmanco	for sure it will	Oct 29 18:54
schestowitz	If it appears some time in 2010 (maybe), then it'll soon turn out to be just another Vista, despite the ads.	Oct 29 18:54
schestowitz	Same Vista DRM prison.	Oct 29 18:54
schestowitz	Same underlying codebase that's a mess.. too much for Microsoft's engineers to manage.	Oct 29 18:55
schestowitz	They promised to make it modular. Did they do it? No, not this time. So it's still goo.	Oct 29 18:55
MinceR	i wouldn't call them engineers	Oct 29 18:55
schestowitz	They said it would boot fast... well, they soon forgot all about that promise and ran away to hide under a rock.	Oct 29 18:55
schestowitz	MS-Certified Sandwich engineers (MCSE)?	Oct 29 18:56
schestowitz	;-)	Oct 29 18:56
schestowitz	Either way, all their code slingers seem to be leaving.	Oct 29 18:56
schestowitz	hb-1 without any familiarity with the code take over and probably break a lot of stuff.	Oct 29 18:56
schestowitz	iTunes 8 to Vista: Give Me a B, an S, an OD < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152967/i... >	Oct 29 18:57
schestowitz	http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/... "There are currently over 46000 open Ubuntu bug reports in Launchpad."	Oct 29 19:03
MinceR	Minesweeper Consultants and Solitaire Experts	Oct 29 19:03
schestowitz	Interesting. http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/re... "I'm sure Asus has their reasons for not allowing a download of the restore ISO. Perhaps they are under some legal obligation to keep it off the digital shelves."	Oct 29 19:09
schestowitz	"As it stands now, I can't put Xandros back onto my EeePC. Thankfully, there are alternatives."	Oct 29 19:10
MinceR	who misses xandros anyway? :>	Oct 29 19:10
schestowitz	Do the Dellbuntu laptops come with a recovery CD?	Oct 29 19:10
schestowitz	The point I'm looking at in Shawn's article is to do with codec licences and all... and Xandros.	Oct 29 19:11
schestowitz	KDE gets the attention of researchers: New KTorrent version plugs security vulnerabilities ( http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/Ne... )	Oct 29 19:13
trmanco	http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/o...	Oct 29 19:22
schestowitz	Google Attacks The Messenger Over Android Vulnerability < http://techdirt.com/articles/20081027/19... >	Oct 29 19:24
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schestowitz	They can optimise the installation/build, trmanco. It's also possible to slim down Vista and to show something moving on 500 MB of RAM.	Oct 29 19:27
trmanco	slim down vista	Oct 29 19:28
trmanco	better slim down XP then	Oct 29 19:28
trmanco	even more	Oct 29 19:28
trmanco	BRB	Oct 29 19:28
schestowitz	Vista ran on netbooks too, if you tired /hard/.	Oct 29 19:29
schestowitz	Trying hard for demo purposes isn't enough. http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_b...	Oct 29 19:29
MinceR	does novell receive payment for suse on the MSI Wind and the HP 2133 Mini-Note PC?	Oct 29 19:30
schestowitz	I don't know.	Oct 29 19:31
schestowitz	Microsoft probably gets paid though. They take a portion from Novell.	Oct 29 19:31
trmanco	http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/10/29...	Oct 29 19:55
schestowitz	"Apache once again shows the largest growth, gaining 463 thousand sites this month."	Oct 29 19:56
schestowitz	"What's a Lynus?" http://gizmodo.com/5070019/walmart...	Oct 29 19:59
schestowitz	IBM is feeding the Yankee Group. Bad IBM. http://elibrary.line56.com/detail/RES/12249...	Oct 29 20:00
schestowitz	And later Microsoft pays these shills as well and they produce something against Linux. Same with the Linux Foundation and IDC (Al Gillen and other sellouts)	Oct 29 20:01
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schestowitz	We ought to mention FOSS projects more. Just got this mail from a reader: "I can't remember which article I was going to comment on. It was more than afew hours ago and I got interrupted. But my comment was to make a reminder to always name at least one real technology in each article, per MS imitation."	Oct 29 20:03
schestowitz	"Look at it this way: if they can keep you complaining about their product, at least your preoccupied with theirs and not the real ones. Might keep a mapping table handy. If product X gets mentioned by MSFTers, respond with Red Hat and Ubuntu. if Y, then Apache and Lighttpd. If Z then thunderbird with lightning. If W then OOo, etc."	Oct 29 20:04
schestowitz	"sponsored by IBM" http://elibrary.line56.com/detail/RES... Yankee Lie(C). Next, please. $20,000 per 'study'?	Oct 29 20:04
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schestowitz	http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/... " His warning follows an admission yesterday by Jacqui Smith that the technical work on creating a giant centralised database of all email, text, phone and web traffic will go ahead, despite the fact that ministers have decided to delay the legislation needed to set it up and instead put the proposal out to consultation."	Oct 29 20:32
schestowitz	http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Schne... "Schneier: Enjoy surveillance while it is still visible. Measures such as ID cards are a temporary measure before biometric technology becomes ubiquitous; That was the warning from security guru Bruce Schneier this week who claims that surveillance technology will get more sophisticated and, more importantly, smaller and harder to dete	Oct 29 20:34
schestowitz	ct"	Oct 29 20:34
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trmanco	http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/28/...	Oct 29 21:04
schestowitz	Leave Vista 7 alone. Seen that H-P thing yet? :-)	Oct 29 21:04
trmanco	nop	Oct 29 21:04
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938... http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10613	Oct 29 21:04
schestowitz	http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...	Oct 29 21:04
*trmanco looks		Oct 29 21:05
schestowitz	They tried to deny the BusinessWeek article from last month about H-P dodging Vista and Microsoft to build a custom GNU/Linux... they were right.	Oct 29 21:05
schestowitz	Big news	Oct 29 21:05
schestowitz	No SIGNS of SUSE (H-P used to stock SLED)!	Oct 29 21:05
schestowitz	benJIman will be thrilled that H-P canned SUSE.	Oct 29 21:06
schestowitz	http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-1053... "The real news here is that HP DROPPED SUSE FOR UBUNTU!!! :D "	Oct 29 21:06
trmanco	haha	Oct 29 21:08
trmanco	now going back to the one I mentioned	Oct 29 21:10
trmanco	"We've always known Microsoft intends Windows 7 to run on netbooks, and we got a small taste during the PDC keynote: Windows SVP Steve Sinofsky held up his "personal" laptop running Windows 7, an unnamed 1GHz netbook with 1GB of RAM that looked a lot like an Eee PC, and said that it still had about half its memory free after boot. (We're guessing it was running a VIA Nano, given the announcement this morning and since most Atoms run a	Oct 29 21:10
trmanco	t 1.6GHz.)"	Oct 29 21:10
trmanco	hmmm	Oct 29 21:10
trmanco	half is good	Oct 29 21:10
trmanco	I wonder how bloated and cluttered It will become after installing all those proprietary drivers	Oct 29 21:11
trmanco	512MB a, Linux can do a lot better, Windows has a lot to catch	Oct 29 21:12
trmanco	"At the other end of the scale, Windows 7 supports machines with up to 256 CPUs."	Oct 29 21:12
trmanco	I wonder how many cpu's Linux supports ?	Oct 29 21:12
schestowitz	It's all vapourware.	Oct 29 21:12
schestowitz	It's a demo. Wait until the hocus pocus show ends	Oct 29 21:12
*trmanco is waiting		Oct 29 21:13
schestowitz	They do this to freeze the market... give home to naive companies.	Oct 29 21:13
schestowitz	PC makers move closer to a post-Windows world < http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/... >. Savour another victory.	Oct 29 21:26
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_Doug	when Cray ruled the world ..	Oct 29 21:31
_Doug	http://www.theregister.co.uk/...	Oct 29 21:31
twitter	Heh, even the Wintel press is getting tired of waiting http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215739	Oct 29 21:31
trmanco	hmm	Oct 29 21:31
trmanco	U just came up with something	Oct 29 21:31
trmanco	I*	Oct 29 21:31
schestowitz	Ta for the link!	Oct 29 21:32
twitter	Windows 7 is Vista with a new coat of paint, Azure is Hailstone 2.0, ouch.	Oct 29 21:32
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 29 21:32
schestowitz	Joel Spolsky said so too.	Oct 29 21:32
schestowitz	Hailstone I mean...	Oct 29 21:32
trmanco	http://blog.somekool.net/files/kde... \| http://media.arstechnica.com/images/wind... == Looks like we have twins	Oct 29 21:32
schestowitz	He said that several months ago though.	Oct 29 21:32
trmanco	I' mostly referring to the start menu	Oct 29 21:33
schestowitz	Vista 7 Fisher Price Edition. :-0	Oct 29 21:33
trmanco	lol	Oct 29 21:33
twitter	meanwhile compiz fusion runs on first generation eeepc.	Oct 29 21:34
schestowitz	"Just as slow as Vista. In fact, Windows 7's performance is virtually identical to that of Vista SP1 on the same hardware. If you were unhappy with Vista's CPU-hogging, memory-sucking ways, Windows 7 will provide little relief."	Oct 29 21:34
schestowitz	See, trmanco, I told you.	Oct 29 21:34
schestowitz	Yes, KDE4 runs on Netbooks with eye candy too.	Oct 29 21:34
trmanco	Aaggr	Oct 29 21:35
schestowitz	We have a winner. Vista 7 is another loser, so the winners are Apple and GNU	Oct 29 21:35
trmanco	Microsoft sure does innovate	Oct 29 21:35
schestowitz	Marketing innovations	Oct 29 21:35
schestowitz	How to 'leak' screenshots	Oct 29 21:35
schestowitz	How to 'demo' for performance and rename products.	Oct 29 21:36
trmanco	better KDE screenshot -> http://www.ngohq.com/attachments/general-softwa...	Oct 29 21:36
schestowitz	As I said earlier, Vista 7 is the Real Slim Sha... eerrr... the Real Mojave.	Oct 29 21:36
trmanco	lol	Oct 29 21:36
trmanco	ooo Mojaveeeéé	Oct 29 21:36
trmanco	crap	Oct 29 21:38
trmanco	I don't remember what was the name of one of M$ services that ripped off Canonical's logo	Oct 29 21:38
trmanco	Alumni	Oct 29 21:39
trmanco	http://msanet.org/	Oct 29 21:40
trmanco	haha	Oct 29 21:40
twitter	Interesting, coming from this source http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/mi...	Oct 29 21:41
schestowitz	I remember that.	Oct 29 21:41
schestowitz	But it's a generic logo	Oct 29 21:41
schestowitz	No-one stole anything.	Oct 29 21:41
MinceR	looks a lot like the edubuntu logo	Oct 29 21:41
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schestowitz	twitter: the big news is about H-P	Oct 29 21:41
twitter	oh?	Oct 29 21:41
twitter	Oh! "non-Windows PC in stores."	Oct 29 21:43
twitter	nice	Oct 29 21:43
schestowitz	twitter: Your slalkers bark again. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/29/mso...	Oct 29 21:44
twitter	woof woof. Nothing of value was added.	Oct 29 21:52
twitter	" None of this should suggest that Microsoft is in some death spiral." No, not at all. Just 8 years without a successful main product launch and declining revenue.	Oct 29 21:54
twitter	It's like they read my Death Watch journal.	Oct 29 21:54
schestowitz	"I’d be glad to help tilt lotus into into the death spiral. I could do it Friday afternoon but not Saturday. I could do it pretty much any time the following week." --Brad Silverberg, Microsoft	Oct 29 21:55
twitter	Here's a couple of older HP articles announcing their intentions and reasoning. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?... http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl...	Oct 29 21:57
twitter	Gotta love the Vista Failure Log.	Oct 29 21:57
twitter	:)	Oct 29 21:57
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schestowitz	Quickie: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/29/h...	Oct 29 22:05
schestowitz	This is old... HP CEO: Vista Never Had Its Moment in 2007 < http://advice.cio.com/laurianne_... >	Oct 29 22:06
twitter	Yeah, I told you it was old.	Oct 29 22:09
twitter	But they planned on doing something and now it's here. What other HP news was there?	Oct 29 22:10
twitter	ahhh, Ubuntu	Oct 29 22:10
twitter	that's nice.	Oct 29 22:10
twitter	I broke my Konqueror. :'( need to start article submission again.	Oct 29 22:12
twitter	but all of the links are right here.	Oct 29 22:12
schestowitz	http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/2334... ZOMG. With /open source/ tool? What does that have to do with the flaw?	Oct 29 22:13
twitter	You have to be careful with oyster knives. They look dull but will go right through your thumb muscle if you slip.	Oct 29 22:14
schestowitz	Swiss Army knives too. I was unfortunate to find out.	Oct 29 22:16
schestowitz	No BlackBerry Open Source OS Confirmed by RIM < http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/10/29/... >	Oct 29 22:17
schestowitz	Eating Microsoft's lunch: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/200... "Meanwhile, although enterprise, license-based learning management platforms continue to dominate the higher education landscape (56.8 percent use Blackboard, down from 66.3 percent last year), the potential for increasing open source adoption remains. "	Oct 29 22:18
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clonebot	:)	Oct 29 22:24
clonebot	gtg ..	Oct 29 22:24
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schestowitz	Microsoft warns of financial crisis email scams < http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-244756.html >	Oct 29 22:40
schestowitz	Those scams arrive from Microsoft Windows botnets.	Oct 29 22:41
twitter	HP news is off to the races http://slashdot.org/firehose.p...	Oct 29 22:44
twitter	Botnets, M$'s unique contribution to distributed computing.	Oct 29 22:45
twitter	Here's something funny. http://uk.youtube.com/watch...	Oct 29 22:50
twitter	I think I'll make it the theme song of the M$ Death Watch.	Oct 29 22:50
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schestowitz	LOL	Oct 29 22:51
schestowitz	Troling: Will the Motorola gamble hurt open source < http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3039 >	Oct 29 22:56
schestowitz	Trolling with a provocative headline	Oct 29 22:57
*pombat42 has quit ("Leaving")		Oct 29 23:01
*libervisco has quit ("Remember, remember the fifth of november...")		Oct 29 23:16
schestowitz	Mandelson's dept mulls UK internet power grab < http://www.theregister.co.u... >; DHS cybersecurity boss fights back against critics < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... >	Oct 29 23:18
*libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 29 23:18
schestowitz	Nice oh him...: "I can make. Roy is a good guy, he’s actually taking out the meat and lay it on the table." < http://standardsandfreedom.net/in... >	Oct 29 23:33
MinceR	gn	Oct 29 23:34
schestowitz	Cheap Apple... Psystar planning Mac OS X notebook < http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2460 >	Oct 29 23:41
schestowitz	Fedora for OLPC being sold... Fedora 10 on SD Card for the OLPC Laptop < http://on-disk.com/product_info.ph... >	Oct 29 23:42
schestowitz	Teenage cyber-criminals run riot < http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/28/teenag... <>	Oct 29 23:45
schestowitz	http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/28... "With all eyes on turbulent global financial markets, Britain's Prince Charles has issued a stark warning about climate change."	Oct 29 23:57

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 29th, 2008

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