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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 21st, 2008 - Part 2

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twitterNo one has anyplace they can afford to go.Nov 21 14:11
twitter"  the motorist group AAA is expecting a decline in Thanksgiving travel this year for the first time since 2002, when Americans were still reeling from the previous year's terrorist attacks. " http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/21/news/econ...Nov 21 14:12
twitterbblNov 21 14:13
schestowitzThis is sad.Nov 21 14:14
schestowitzLayoffs coming to oil companies too (except the big bosses).Nov 21 14:14
EruaranI'm glad Aaron hates popup dialoguesNov 21 14:16
Eruaran:)Nov 21 14:16
EruaranI'm the sameNov 21 14:16
EruaranI much prefer things going into the new and improved systray or something like a "devices recently plugged in" thing that only appears in the corner of your screen and doesn't get in the wayNov 21 14:17
schestowitzMandriva has them. I hate them so much that I force myself to dismiss there.Nov 21 14:18
schestowitz_doug says a lot of stuff about popupsNov 21 14:18
schestowitzHe's a CLI manNov 21 14:18
EruaranUbuntu's pop up balloons are becoming more and more like Windows... that is, annoying.Nov 21 14:18
*kentma (n=user@host86-161-71-25.range86-161.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 21 14:18
EruaranAnd the one I hate the mostNov 21 14:18
Eruaranthe one that tells the user they have to reboot... reboot !Nov 21 14:19
schestowitzWin32 users might anticipate popups though and find it "confusing" without obtrusive UIsNov 21 14:19
_dougYea, two bash screens and I get more work done in ten minutes than half an hour on WindowsNov 21 14:19
kentma_doug: best thing most people could learn would be to touch-type.  saves hours more than any gui does.Nov 21 14:19
EruaranInstall a new graphics driver on Ubuntu and it tells the user they have to rebootNov 21 14:19
_dougNag megs, I hate them, do you want to etc ... it breaks your concentration ...Nov 21 14:19
EruaranMy response to that golden little balloon is, "STFU, ctrl+alt+backspace"Nov 21 14:20
_dougNO NO NO, I do not want to 'upgrade', clean up the desktop, view my phishing settings or any of the half dozen msgs that keep popping up ...Nov 21 14:20
_doughttp://www.dilbert.com/Nov 21 14:21
schestowitzNo RSSNov 21 14:24
schestowitzOops. My bad. http://www.dilbert.com/rss/Nov 21 14:24
_dougGartner Report Exaggerates Open Source IP ConcernsNov 21 14:25
_doughttp://www.daniweb.com/blogs/...Nov 21 14:25
schestowitzThey don't do auto-discovery in the <head>ersNov 21 14:25
schestowitz_doug: they do what they get paid for.Nov 21 14:25
schestowitzStatge the obvious, add FUDNov 21 14:25
schestowitzMicrosoft's operating system is used on most (85%) of the desktop, but companies that use it need more lawyers (esp. with Vista around)Nov 21 14:26
schestowitz US warned of Microsoft WIndows < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/... >Nov 21 14:28
schestowitz Dell sees quarterly profits slip < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/... >Nov 21 14:28
schestowitzHaha. http://mafiaa.org/ "Music And Film Industry Association of Americaâ„¢ (MAFIAAâ„¢)"Nov 21 14:40
trmancohttp://awesome.naquadah.org/Nov 21 14:44
schestowitzAwesome. Is there new?Nov 21 14:45
schestowitz*sNov 21 14:45
twitterhiNov 21 14:47
MinceRlol naquadahNov 21 14:49
twitterNow, sees the *s.  Was looking for anything new in Awesome.  Citibank if up for sale.Nov 21 14:50
Eruaran"nice coffee holding panda !" - DilbertNov 21 14:50
schestowitzFor sale?Nov 21 14:51
schestowitzThey are Microsoft-pollutedNov 21 14:51
schestowitzMaybe they can merge with Microsoft... start a banking industry for the age of financial dessertsNov 21 14:52
trmancohttp://marc.info/?l=linux-kerne...Nov 21 14:53
schestowitz<gregkh () suse ! de>Nov 21 14:56
schestowitzIs Greg German? ;-)Nov 21 14:56
twitterBanks were a big M$ Partner.... their failure is bad for the M$ bottom line.  Sweaty B personally begged Congress to bail the banks out.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo...Nov 21 14:58
twitterTheir failure are already going to cost M$ billions.  http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=...Nov 21 14:59
twitterthere will be more of that.Nov 21 14:59
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/...Nov 21 15:00
schestowitzI like the comment there. "Until then, you can kindly kiss my browser stamp."Nov 21 15:00
trmancohttp://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/...Nov 21 15:01
schestowitz"jwilcox154" Who's *that*?Nov 21 15:01
schestowitzNot the Joe Wilcox from Microsoft Watch trolling... or *is* it?Nov 21 15:02
twitterthe slashdot user?Nov 21 15:02
schestowitzYesNov 21 15:02
twittersome kind of troll, I think.Nov 21 15:02
schestowitzI try to identify your 'buddies'Nov 21 15:02
schestowitzMicrosoft assigns buddies to people who write about MSNov 21 15:02
twitterit's just another nym.  They have hundreds if not thousands there.Nov 21 15:02
schestowitzWhy would the person chase down people's journals?Nov 21 15:03
twitterharassment mostlyNov 21 15:03
schestowitz"This must be the effect of ‘buddies’ from Microsoft. Mary Jo Foley once told me that they exist and that they get ‘assigned’ to people in order to influence them (or try to moderate them, so to speak)." http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09...Nov 21 15:04
twitterIt's all part of "Mind control"Nov 21 15:04
schestowitzFor the watchlist: http://slashdot.org/~jwilcox154Nov 21 15:04
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?si...Nov 21 15:05
schestowitzWow. Obsession with posters. That's never too healthyNov 21 15:05
schestowitzDo they come to /. for news or for specific people?Nov 21 15:05
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twitterI have not taken the time to run that user down.Nov 21 15:06
schestowitzBl00dy heck, Look at this account..Nov 21 15:06
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=89...Nov 21 15:06
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=98...Nov 21 15:06
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid...Nov 21 15:06
schestowitzDoes that user do ANYTHING else than attacking you?Nov 21 15:06
twitterthere's a group of people who spend their time harassing twitter and they are not afraid of making one or two accounts that do nothing but that.Nov 21 15:07
schestowitzI had similar people in Digg. Other people voluntarily pointed out in public that they stalk my account (personal attacks, libel and modding).Nov 21 15:07
schestowitzYou should report these account to Rob Malda or whatever.Nov 21 15:07
schestowitzPressure them to start handling Slashdot. Tell them they'll use their better users if they don't take action... they already lose tons of business... watch LNUXNov 21 15:08
schestowitzWhat sane person would make it a hobby to just harass people?Nov 21 15:08
twitterI imagine they are paid to do that.Nov 21 15:09
schestowitzI mean, there are some journos I don't like, but I'm not wasting my life stalking and discrediting them..Nov 21 15:09
twitterI've documented some of it in the troll zoo.  When I say someone is a twitter attack bot, I mean it.Nov 21 15:09
schestowitzLaeMedia, W-E... they need to have some serious bust-down one day.Nov 21 15:09
twitterYes, it is a waste of their lives.Nov 21 15:10
schestowitzI reported ACT to the FTC, but that's small peanuts compared to the corruption that flushes down the whole economy ATM.Nov 21 15:10
schestowitzThey just busted Mark Cuban for possible fraud.Nov 21 15:10
schestowitzMicrosoft execs do the same crimes... the SEC is usually indifferent to such 'small' crimes (read: white-collar crime). It's all about shoplifters and so-called 'pirates'Nov 21 15:11
twitterI'm not sure how to report the abuse to Rob but I'm sure they are aware of it.Nov 21 15:11
twitterBruce Perens got the same treatment and so did Miguel.Nov 21 15:12
EruaranI think trolls have to be paid to do it... theyNov 21 15:13
schestowitzWell, they still put you in FP routinely.Nov 21 15:13
Eruaranthey'd have to be microsofties doing their astroturfingNov 21 15:13
EruaranI mean, I know Windows usersNov 21 15:13
schestowitzThe trolls try to  make other /.er not listen to you, mod you down (out of sight) and pressure editors to bin you.Nov 21 15:13
EruaranAnd most of them wouldn't know Slashdot from a pokadotNov 21 15:13
twitterYes.Nov 21 15:13
schestowitzIf you make FP they must attack the  editor, as in "next time you promote him you're in trouble"Nov 21 15:14
schestowitzIt's a very typical type of gagging.Nov 21 15:14
twitterYesNov 21 15:14
schestowitzLessig gets that too.. from the MAFIAA typeNov 21 15:14
schestowitzThey try to toss him out and keep him out of congressNov 21 15:14
schestowitzEruaran: no, they get hired by agencies.Nov 21 15:14
schestowitzNewsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacyNov 21 15:15
schestowitzFrom<: jmur...@shell.portal.com (John - Murphy)Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzDate: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 18:49:10 GMTNov 21 15:15
schestowitzLocal: Sun, Mar 20 1994 6:49 pmNov 21 15:15
schestowitzSubject: Newspaper exposes "Steve Barkto" as MS agentNov 21 15:15
schestowitzSunday, March 20, the San Jose Mercury News published a front page article on the agent provocatour, alias, Steve Barkto.  The article quotes William Zachmann as saying he tracked down Mr. "Barkto" on his Compuserve forum, after this new member made disparaging remarks about IBM, and in particular, OS/2.Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzMr. "Barkto" is not a major customer of IBM, but an employee or agent of Microsoft.  The account which this mole used, was paid for by the good old folks at MS.Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzI wrote an letter to Congressman Norm Mineta (D-San Jose) asking that the U.S. Dept. of Justice look into unfair trade practices of MS.  In particular, the relationship between computer system manufactures, and MS.Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzI wonder how many messages we get on this USENET and others, that originate from the corporate headquarters of Microsoft?Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzJohn MurphyNov 21 15:15
schestowitzCommerical Brokers InsuranceNov 21 15:15
schestowitzSan Jose, CANov 21 15:15
twitterAstroturf, they try to convince editors that everyone loves M$ and that people like me drive readers off.  They then try to make that true, all the while they do their usual crapfloods and other disruptions that really do drive people off.Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzFor ref: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2....Nov 21 15:15
schestowitzThat's what modpoints are for.Nov 21 15:16
schestowitzAnd metamoderationNov 21 15:16
twitterThey have gamed all of thatNov 21 15:16
schestowitzBut who moderates metamoderation?Nov 21 15:16
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archi...Nov 21 15:17
twitterIt's been ages since I bothered with metamods.  It was time consuming and pointless.Nov 21 15:17
twitterThe botnet operators always won.Nov 21 15:18
schestowitzAlmost half of the comments in BN recently qualify as anti-messenger/trolling.Nov 21 15:18
schestowitzIt's not good.Nov 21 15:18
twitterMore smear.  I'm used to everything I say getting that.Nov 21 15:18
twitterSomeone at M$ really hates me.  That's fine, they suck.Nov 21 15:19
schestowitzThe lurkers need to speak up and defend the site.Nov 21 15:19
schestowitzI got E-mails about it. People don't read the comment cause it's just heckling.Nov 21 15:19
schestowitzBTW, in the past 10 hours BN got over 10000 pageviews. No major links for that...Nov 21 15:20
twitterIt's been that way for years.  People in the BRLUG gave up on comments a long time ago.Nov 21 15:20
twitterLately, it's been worse.Nov 21 15:20
schestowitzI think the trolls just look for a podium where they can cause the most disruption and spread negative messages to an audience that they target (Novell critics in this case)Nov 21 15:20
twitterM$ "Mind control"  If they can't control the discussion, they seek to destroy it.Nov 21 15:21
schestowitz"Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!"Nov 21 15:21
twitterFor all the attack, it's amazing that Slashdot manages to cover the news as well as they do.Nov 21 15:21
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-conten... :Microsoft, internal documentNov 21 15:21
twitterThanks for the reference.Nov 21 15:22
schestowitztwitter: news?Nov 21 15:22
schestowitzLike SIlver Lie?Nov 21 15:22
schestowitzI stopped reading /. cause it was /bad/Nov 21 15:22
twitterI have not looked much.  Too much navel gazing here.  ha haNov 21 15:22
schestowitzFor science it's OK. When it comes to tech, they pick up bair and shills like Jeff GouldNov 21 15:23
MinceRJeff Goa'uldNov 21 15:23
twitterI never gave up on Slashdot and still use it as a platform to record and organize my thoughts.  M$ really hates that.Nov 21 15:23
twitterSlashdot is still a powerful tool for research.Nov 21 15:24
twitterbb in a minute.Nov 21 15:24
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to dodge the crime lawsuit that unseals many damaging docs: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft...Nov 21 15:30
schestowitz"Documents turned over in the case show Microsoft executives opposing a decision to lower the standards for the Vista Capable designation, with former Windows chief Jim Allchin saying in one e-mail that he believed the Vista Capable program would mislead consumers."Nov 21 15:30
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Who_will_be_Mi... "Microsoft acknowledged today that it has hired a key Yahoo search technology executive, Sean Suchter, to work on its Live Search engine, confirming reports by Valleywag and AllThingsD. But the Redmond company still has a key position to fill in its online division, and it has been taking quite a while to fill it."Nov 21 15:31
neighborleeok, thats weird ;)Nov 21 15:37
neighborleetalk about your aveage conflict of interest LOLNov 21 15:37
neighborleebut hey  I guess if they got the money he has the time LOLNov 21 15:37
neighborleestill weirdNov 21 15:38
schestowitzDid you see the comments?Nov 21 15:38
trmancoOpen letter to the Ministry of Education: Translated: http://translate.google.com/trans... | Original: http://conversasdobruno.blogs.sa...Nov 21 15:56
schestowitzCan you translate this into English that's not automated? I'd put it in BN FP.Nov 21 15:58
schestowitzIt applies well to other countries tooNov 21 15:58
twitterOh yes, I did look up that willcox154 troll once.  He seems to be a genuine, if minor PR person when you do a google search.  Of course, it's easy for M$ to create such people or for trolls to mis-attribute their dirty work to innocent people.Nov 21 16:01
trmancoschestowitz, yes, I can review the automated version and correct itNov 21 16:01
schestowitzThanks.Nov 21 16:01
schestowitzI'll link to other posts about PortugalNov 21 16:01
schestowitzLater we can build an indexNov 21 16:01
trmanco:)Nov 21 16:02
twitterMore interesting than trolls.  http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16...Nov 21 16:16
schestowitzThat "confirmed" bit irked me too. I see the comments agree.Nov 21 16:21
schestowitz"CONFIRMED:" What is this, Digg? Or it it nuclear physics?Nov 21 16:21
twitterit was an experimental, or calculation, confirmation of theory.  or at least I thought so.  do they have a paper some place normal people can read it?Nov 21 16:23
twitterhere's an ugly little troll nym http://slashdot.org/~dedazo/journal/217779Nov 21 16:24
neighborleethey dont have a clue yet about our universeNov 21 16:27
neighborleeexcept to say its made up mostly of dark energy and dark matter, none of which they can prove , or know anything about what it actually does IF it exists LOL..but such things are believed to be so , welll cause its the status quo that says so of course ;)Nov 21 16:28
schestowitzneighborlee: Nov 21 16:29
schestowitzCan you find the page where dirthex talks about using Mono or programming in it?Nov 21 16:30
schestowitzWas it somone esle I remember from Ubuntu Forums?Nov 21 16:30
neighborleeschestowitz, well im pretty sure I found it somewhere  , when he posted about programming..or helping someone with programming something..Nov 21 16:31
neighborleeill try to find itNov 21 16:31
schestowitzThanks.Nov 21 16:31
twitterHmm, I see that the trolls have a new tag, "twittertroll" that they have applied to all of my submissions.Nov 21 16:37
twitterNice.Nov 21 16:37
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 21 16:40
schestowitzit's a sign of omnipotence.Nov 21 16:43
schestowitzI still think you should give up the multiple nyms. They use it against yiu.Nov 21 16:43
schestowitzBN in CIO Magazine: http://www.cio.com.au/article/2678...Nov 21 16:45
trmancohttp://www.winehq.org/?announce=1.1.9Nov 21 16:45
schestowitzTaNov 21 16:45
schestowitzI don't drink Wine.Nov 21 16:45
PetoKrausi wonder when will MS move to 64bit platformNov 21 16:46
neighborleeLOL I found something funny though regardless as its more deception, but it was caught nicely by robert here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepor...Nov 21 16:47
trmancoI don't either, but it is nice to know that a Foss project when running some Windows apps has more performance then on its native platformNov 21 16:48
PetoKrausI drink red wineNov 21 16:48
PetoKrausShiraz, Merlot.Nov 21 16:48
neighborleedittoNov 21 16:48
neighborleenot merlot, but red wine :)Nov 21 16:48
PetoKrausprefferably australian Shiraz.Nov 21 16:48
PetoKrausneighborlee: californian wines are good as well ;)Nov 21 16:49
twittereh, stick to appalation controleNov 21 16:49
schestowitzI get dizzy reading this headline: http://www.cio.in/news/viewArti... ( MS, Novell Toast Anniversary with Tools, Support Coupons )Nov 21 16:50
schestowitzToasting with patent royalties.Nov 21 16:51
schestowitzPop the wine and the champagne... let's celebrate racketeering.Nov 21 16:51
PetoKrauswho the hell is Jo Shields?Nov 21 16:51
PetoKrauskick it out of debian, FFSNov 21 16:51
schestowitzPetoKraus: someone that helps Novell, whether knowingly or not.Nov 21 16:52
schestowitzPetoKraus: I'm trying.Nov 21 16:52
schestowitzThey have 'guards'Nov 21 16:52
PetoKrausyou have my full supportNov 21 16:52
schestowitzAll kinds of Mono fans beset in projects that are important to FOSS. They protestNov 21 16:52
schestowitzThe same goes for Novell/Microsoft's fork of OOoNov 21 16:52
PetoKraus(if it doesn't mean anything now, i can assure you, i'll try my best, so it'll mean something in 20 years :P)Nov 21 16:52
schestowitzAh! turncoats.Nov 21 16:53
MinceRnow even debian has Mono munchkins?Nov 21 16:53
PetoKrausi meanNov 21 16:53
PetoKrauswhy the HELL is MONO in GNewSense?!?Nov 21 16:53
PetoKrausby defaultNov 21 16:53
schestowitzMinceR: Jo Shields is intervening there too.Nov 21 16:53
schestowitzNot munchkins, but people who push C#Nov 21 16:53
neighborleeredhat/fedora is one of the few resisting mono nicely..so of course theywant to get their customers, to make them moot and destroy one remaining holdout ;)Nov 21 16:53
schestowitzneighborlee: here's a scoopNov 21 16:54
neighborleePetoKraus, good question ;)Nov 21 16:54
MinceRPetoKraus: lolNov 21 16:54
schestowitzSomeone who is in Fedora told me that Red hat is watching the Mono saga closely.Nov 21 16:54
MinceRbetter ask the gnewsense guys about that.Nov 21 16:54
schestowitzAmong other things.Nov 21 16:54
schestowitzThey also added armament to their legal team recently.Nov 21 16:54
PetoKrausi was deeply shocked about that when i tried it out in vboxNov 21 16:54
schestowitzThere's evidence to show machines from Red Hat going beyond just reading pages about Mono.Nov 21 16:54
twitter" Toasting with patent royalties."  They might make nice coasters or toilet paper.  It would be a shame to waste the paper.Nov 21 16:55
neighborleeI still find out if dvd has mono or not..I  might have to burn it yet just to find out ;(Nov 21 16:55
schestowitzIt bothers me when Novell and Microsoft are described like a married couple: "Touting the second anniversary of their contentious partnership, Microsoft and Novell on Tuesday announced that they are all set to launch the beta version of Moonlight, a Firefox supported service that lets Silverlight content to run on Linux PCs."Nov 21 16:55
neighborleetwitter, lolNov 21 16:55
PetoKraus"I don't see how possible but unclaimed patents would make moonlight in Debian more dangerous than any software such as wine, linux, samba, OOo,ntfs-3g, etc."Nov 21 16:55
PetoKrausis she fucking serious??!?Nov 21 16:55
schestowitzShould we make cake too?Nov 21 16:55
schestowitzhttp://security.itproportal.com/articles/...Nov 21 16:56
neighborleePetoKraus, faik its a he..jo(joseph) as this persons website claims..Nov 21 16:56
twitterHas anyone actually seen one of these "coupons"?Nov 21 16:56
PetoKrausi don't believe "it"Nov 21 16:56
schestowitztwitter: there's SCO toilet paperNov 21 16:56
schestowitzI don't know if it's being sold though.Nov 21 16:56
twitterdelisted.Nov 21 16:56
schestowitzPink toilet papesNov 21 16:57
PetoKraus"[member of Debian Mono Group]"Nov 21 16:57
PetoKrausWTFNov 21 16:57
schestowitzPink slip. Wipe with it...Nov 21 16:57
PetoKrausgodnessNov 21 16:58
PetoKrausthe moment people drop few-tonne huge fridge from space station on earth just because it stinksNov 21 16:59
PetoKrausit's time to think about the sanity of population as a wholeNov 21 16:59
schestowitzURL?Nov 21 17:00
PetoKrausi dunno, though it was trashes everywhere awhile agoNov 21 17:00
schestowitzDoesn't it dissolve in the atmosphere or something?Nov 21 17:00
PetoKraushttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07...Nov 21 17:00
schestowitzHahaNov 21 17:00
schestowitzMeh. No picture.Nov 21 17:01
schestowitzhttp://blog.nola.com/checkitout/2008/...Nov 21 17:01
PetoKrausit was actually only half a tonne.Nov 21 17:02
PetoKraus1:5000 chanceNov 21 17:03
PetoKrausthat's not that unprobableNov 21 17:03
twitterUgh, now I see the /. Silverblight advert.Nov 21 17:04
PetoKraus"OOXML is a superb standard and yet, it has been FUDed so badly by its competitors that serious people believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with it."Nov 21 17:05
PetoKrausbloody freaking hellNov 21 17:05
PetoKrausin next sentence:Nov 21 17:05
PetoKraus"Besides, it is always better to have two implementations and then standardize than trying to standardize a single implementation. "Nov 21 17:06
PetoKrausdoes he even know what he said second ago?!Nov 21 17:06
neighborleewell if it doesn't support his bottom line, then while he admits its not a good standard, and was pushed through BY M$, that he must support it...its all very transparent ;)Nov 21 17:12
neighborleehis/her , whateverNov 21 17:12
PetoKrausit's MiguelNov 21 17:13
neighborleewhom has stated , if however kinda moot based on his actions, that mono was a 'bad' idea that he tried to stop. o_0Nov 21 17:14
neighborleehmm but yeah I thought youy meant the JO comment on the website as similar things have been said there tooNov 21 17:15
neighborleeIn order to install F-Spot and Tomboy, considered the best choices in their class by the Desktop team, installed by default. < see this is what they are all hoping for..the 'best' apps bar none,  while its clear RMS says if they are 'that' important,,rewrite them in something else..I think that says alot ;)Nov 21 17:16
neighborleefrom here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showt...Nov 21 17:16
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twitterHere's something interesting http://db.tidbits.com/article/9869  too bad it's non free http://etherpad.com/ep/about/tos  is there a free software implementation of this?Nov 21 17:18
trmancoschestowitz, doneNov 21 17:22
trmancowant me to send it by email?Nov 21 17:22
schestowitzhttp://www.techworld.com.au/blog/talkingtech... "Web sites sprung up calling for Novell boycotts, developers ran and cried to Google (Note to all those who think Google manages people's information more transparently than Microsoft or Novell: go and take a very cold shower)"Nov 21 17:22
schestowitzWhat's with him?Nov 21 17:23
schestowitzGedda is defending Novell's deeds? Blech. Good to know..Nov 21 17:23
schestowitztrmanco: yes, pleaseNov 21 17:23
trmancookNov 21 17:23
twitterBashing google too.  Shame.Nov 21 17:25
schestowitzSo many hecklers in BN right now. *sigh*Nov 21 17:32
twitterAnalysts sell out, it's their business model.  http://www.businessweek.com/ap/f...Nov 21 17:32
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twitterBW, begging people to buy M$FTNov 21 17:32
schestowitz"Oppenheimer & Co."Nov 21 17:32
schestowitzMaybe he's pumping it.Nov 21 17:33
schestowitzHe and his firm bought some MSFT and they need to drive up the stockNov 21 17:33
schestowitzWall Street is a casino for people who pretend to have a clue.Nov 21 17:33
twitterAll casinos are for people who don't understand math.Nov 21 17:33
schestowitzMy dad told me years ago that analysts do just guesswork and prettify it with some reasoning. When wrong, hide under rock. When correct, tout.Nov 21 17:34
trmancoschestowitz, check your inboxNov 21 17:34
trmanco:PNov 21 17:34
twitterThere's an old boiler room scam that does this.  They phone people with guesses, half one way, half the other.  As time goes by the pool diminishes until they have a few dozen suckers who think they have predicted 9 or 10 things correctly.Nov 21 17:36
twitterOf course, no stocks are actually purchased.  The scammer takes the money and runs.Nov 21 17:37
twitterM$ likes to take advantage of a well known gambler's fallacy, where the gambler thinks the next OS has to be a winner because the last one was such a loser.Nov 21 17:38
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twitterlunch timeNov 21 17:38
schestowitztwitter: it's a pyramid schemeNov 21 17:42
schestowitzBanks make the most money (commission)Nov 21 17:42
schestowitzThat's just like a casino. There's no free/lunch moneyNov 21 17:42
schestowitzEither you lose personally or at a national level (debt), which means you'll pay later through taxNov 21 17:42
neighborleeokay I just asked in #fedora if mono is stilll on dvd and why if soNov 21 17:45
*neighborlee holds breath , hoping not to be labeled a heretic LOLNov 21 17:45
neighborlee<ivazquez> Like I told you last time, it doesn't fit. < I have no idea WHO this person is at #fedora, but ths is what is claimed as why mono isn't on livecd..if true ( why then was it on fedora 7/8?) then I suuppose it IS on dfeault install of dvdNov 21 17:49
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neighborleemakes little sense its space issues..if moonlight is deemed unsafe for fedora I dont seee how mono could be deemed 'safe'  ;))..Nov 21 17:53
neighborleeplus it all goes back to the whole 'how was mono ever introduced to fedora in the first place' arguementNov 21 17:54
neighborleeim now asking someone I know to be on qualiity assurance team..people at redhat..Nov 21 17:54
neighborleeohhhhhhh no you dontNov 21 17:56
neighborleeohhhhhhh not so fastNov 21 17:56
neighborleeposting one secNov 21 17:57
schestowitzDid you post URLs there?Nov 21 18:00
neighborlee we avoided mono for a while because of legal/patent concerns, so there aren't so many mono developers in FedoraNov 21 18:01
neighborleeno in channels if thats what yur askigNov 21 18:01
neighborleeingNov 21 18:01
neighborleewhatever 'for a while' means ;(Nov 21 18:01
neighborleejoss@debian.org clearly does not want mono in the core at all: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr... < in case you didn't know..so at least debian remains a holdout..I just wish installing debian core and getting a reasonable desktop wasn't so arduousNov 21 18:11
neighborlee * tomboy: very nice app, but controversial since it brings theNov 21 18:12
neighborlee> >         full Mono stack, so we don’t make it part ofNov 21 18:12
neighborlee> >         gnome-desktop-environment.Nov 21 18:12
neighborlee <posted 6/3/08Nov 21 18:12
neighborleeI should try latest lenny installer I guess o_0Nov 21 18:12
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/...Nov 21 18:15
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neighborleenice find, thx.Nov 21 18:23
schestowitzJo and his buddies are very active now.Nov 21 18:23
schestowitzMostly here, like a group of Monoyenas: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/2...Nov 21 18:24
neighborleelolNov 21 18:24
schestowitzMicrosoft is still having the shillnalysts write brochureports.Nov 21 18:32
schestowitzMarketing material composed by analysts? No way!!Nov 21 18:32
neighborleeyeah ic what your mean.,..the mono hounds is busy aint they ;))lolNov 21 18:32
neighborleethey dismissed groklaw as irrelevant,,how classy :)Nov 21 18:32
neighborleedismiss what does not support your view and that which you cant not argue against ..classy ;)Nov 21 18:33
neighborleeand apparnatly that which debian, the core of linux for many, does not want anythign to do with..debian must be in cahoots with all of us ? ;)./..classy ;)Nov 21 18:34
neighborleeok wait..debian wont accept mono, yet mark does...is there anythign wrong with this picture ?Nov 21 18:34
neighborleeo_0Nov 21 18:34
neighborleeI cant wait to see what their replies are to your latest posts ;)Nov 21 18:36
schestowitzGroklaw?Nov 21 18:39
schestowitzOr SFLC?Nov 21 18:39
schestowitzIn Moonlights's case it was merely brought to GL.Nov 21 18:40
schestowitzMark doesn't understand this.Nov 21 18:40
schestowitzPJ said so too.Nov 21 18:40
schestowitzHe doesn't know that trolls can be borrowed patents too.Nov 21 18:40
schestowitzneighborlee: they don't reply to that latest post.Nov 21 18:41
neighborleeI realize it was brought there, but it was commented there as well by someone highly knowledgeabley ( if not a lawyer) in legal matters/wordingNov 21 18:41
schestowitzIf there's no weakness, they keep quiet. They love nitpicking and throwing accusations, asking for apology/correction to make /me/ seem like the bad guy and them as the victim.Nov 21 18:41
neighborleeI meant groklaw yesNov 21 18:42
neighborleewho is PJ sorry I missed that one :)Nov 21 18:42
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schestowitzThe editor of the siteNov 21 18:44
neighborleeah ok gotcha, thx indeedNov 21 18:45
neighborleeI wondered yupNov 21 18:45
schestowitzI can't understand why they defend Novell... AlexH especially...and Dan.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/...Nov 21 18:46
neighborleehttp://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono < maybe we dont quote this oftenenough..I wonder if seth still feels this way??Nov 21 18:47
schestowitzThey said they'd not comment (Alex I think... not that anyone suggested it), but he just can't help bursting.Nov 21 18:47
schestowitzneighborlee: you tried contacting him, right?Nov 21 18:47
neighborleeI read this LONG ago, but found it on another thread where I had missed it before: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthre... < by arito.Nov 21 18:47
neighborleeI didNov 21 18:47
neighborleeno replyNov 21 18:47
neighborleeunless it went to spam and I missed it o_0Nov 21 18:48
neighborleeI shall resendNov 21 18:48
neighborleesentNov 21 18:49
neighborleeLOLNov 21 18:54
neighborleeIn my opinion .Net is only good to catch .Fish. >< from  viduliya at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthre... < worth a laugh..laughter matters ;)Nov 21 18:55
schestowitzSuing Over Being Called A Douchebag Might Just Get More People To Think You're A Douchebag < http://techdirt.com/articles/... >Nov 21 18:56
schestowitzHmmm.... my password for Ubuntu Forums doesn't work. Oh, well...Nov 21 18:56
neighborlee:(Nov 21 18:57
neighborleeLOLNov 21 18:57
neighborleeabout douchebag comment ;))Nov 21 18:57
schestowitzSomething's weirdNov 21 18:59
schestowitzMany people read BN today and I don't know why.Nov 21 18:59
schestowitzMaybe some mailing list message or something..Nov 21 18:59
neighborleehttp://www.microsoft.com/inte... < and this is what he noted in defense of his 'things you didn't know were covered by M$ paTENTSNov 21 19:02
neighborleeschestowitz, good news..more innocent people need to know about this mono m ess , as ubuntu rises in popularity ,so its more mandatory everyone is aware of risks associated and who feels what and whyNov 21 19:03
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schestowitzhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200...Nov 21 19:10
neighborleeand btw..even the debian developer is 'fine' with : Btw, an independent analisys of that covenant is available:Nov 21 19:10
neighborlee  http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?...Nov 21 19:10
neighborleeso much for the groklaw arguement ;)Nov 21 19:10
schestowitzBuy patents for sudo make me a sandwich?/Nov 21 19:10
schestowitzUSPTO should be sent to exile.Nov 21 19:10
neighborleelolNov 21 19:10
schestowitzSuch a disgraceNov 21 19:10
schestowitzWhat's next? Patents on wiping one's arse?Nov 21 19:11
neighborleehaaaNov 21 19:11
neighborleewell thats just crap ;)Nov 21 19:11
schestowitzYes, it stinksNov 21 19:12
schestowitz"The PDF document holds a single paged scan of an internally distributed mail from German telecommunications company T-Systems (Deutsche Telekom), revealing over two dozen secret IP address ranges in use by the German intelligence service Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND). Independent evidence shows that the claim is almost certainly true and the document itself has been verified by a demand letter from T-systems to Wikileaks."Nov 21 19:24
schestowitzhttp://wikileaks.org/wiki/German_Secret_Intellig...) ( German Secret Intelligence Service (BND) T-Systems network assignments, 13 Nov 2008 )Nov 21 19:24
schestowitzDNS INFORMATION (as responding):Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzHost www2-1.bvoe.de (195.243.248.226)Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzHost www2-2.bvoe.de (195.243.248.228)Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzHost www1-1.bvoe.de (62.156.187.234)Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzHost www1-2.bvoe.de (62.156.187.236)Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzHost mail.prosozial.de (62.159.60.150)Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzWHOIS INFORMATION:Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzinetnum:      193.159.228.32 - 193.159.228.39Nov 21 19:25
schestowitznetname:      BVOENET12Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzdescr:        TSI fuer LVPNov 21 19:25
schestowitzinetnum:      193.159.238.168 - 193.159.238.175Nov 21 19:25
schestowitznetname:      BVOENET21Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzdescr:        TSI fuer LVPNov 21 19:25
schestowitzAnd so on...Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzSecret services IPs. Nice. via http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008...Nov 21 19:25
schestowitzSomeone should write a script that scans one's log for all of these addresses and highlights visits to one's site from the 'secret services'Nov 21 19:28
schestowitzI think Paul Thurrott  is taking the piss: http://windowsitpro.com/mobile/pda/Article.... "Roy Schestowitz, who runs a cute little Web site called Boycott Novell.." What does he mean by "cute little"?Nov 21 19:30
MinceRhe's trying to disparage it but has no arguments or factsNov 21 19:32
schestowitzPentagon Hit by Unprecedented Cyber Attack < http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11... >Nov 21 19:33
schestowitzThey saw it all coming. They considered bombing (literally) botmasters instead of addressing the issue: Windows being easy pickings.Nov 21 19:34
trmancololNov 21 19:35
trmancoa 2.6 MB .XLS spreadsheet converts into a 803 KB .ODS spreadsheetNov 21 19:36
trmancolovelyNov 21 19:36
schestowitzTypicalNov 21 19:37
schestowitzXLS has some forensic antifeaturesNov 21 19:37
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neighborleetwitter, good going about getting him to explain tireless devotion, and his unwillingness to do so  but on 'neutral ground' LOLNov 21 19:41
neighborleethat says it all ;)Nov 21 19:41
neighborleeoh , and now he is cussing...sh**,,typical stuff from mono supporters , when they have nothing left.Nov 21 19:42
neighborleeclassy.Nov 21 19:42
neighborleecredibility , lost.Nov 21 19:44
schestowitzJo made a disclosure. Nov 21 19:47
schestowitzBe sure to read itNov 21 19:47
neighborleehmNov 21 19:48
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neighborleeschestowitz, not much of one ;)Nov 21 19:50
neighborleeschestowitz, and I dont give it much thought based on his willingness to use colorful adject ives so easily..lost c redibility  especiallly in light of the now seen debia devlopers view of this whole mono encumbered mess ;)Nov 21 19:50
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PetoKrausbloody .... whateverNov 21 20:33
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MinceRhttp://news.slashdot.org/article....Nov 21 21:07
PetoKrauswheeNov 21 21:07
schestowitzWhenever I see a /. URL here, it's bad news, but this is good, except.......Nov 21 21:09
schestowitz"Without prejudice. Lovely SCO touch. If a creditors committee is suddenly formed, SCO is ready. Why now? I'm only guessing but probably they are tying off loose ends, because their time to file a reorganization plan is almost up. And despite investors being "so excited about the business prospects of working with SCO" that Stephen Norris mentioned at SCO's Tec Forum, so far nothing in writing to file with the court, so it does begNov 21 21:09
schestowitzin to look like the clock may run out first. What a surprise. "Nov 21 21:09
schestowitzFrom http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?st... (earlier)Nov 21 21:10
MinceRalso, they said that they have to pay much less than they got from m$Nov 21 21:11
MinceRstill, m$ is bleeding moneyNov 21 21:11
PetoKrauswell, as one /.ter said, this is just the tipNov 21 21:14
PetoKraushttp://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10...Nov 21 21:14
MinceRBK?Nov 21 21:20
trmancocool -> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/21/portugal...Nov 21 21:22
schestowitzIt was written well.Nov 21 21:23
schestowitzI don't think I changed anything.Nov 21 21:23
trmancookNov 21 21:23
trmancogod to knowNov 21 21:23
trmancogood*Nov 21 21:23
trmancowe both went trough it a couple of timesNov 21 21:24
trmancohttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ostatic/~3/BQK...Nov 21 21:33
schestowitzThey link to junk 'stats'Nov 21 21:43
schestowitzWorthless dataNov 21 21:43
trmancowhat do you meanNov 21 21:43
schestowitzWow! Look. They have charts. It must be true... not.Nov 21 21:44
schestowitzThey use advertising garbage as raw data for these graphs.Nov 21 21:44
trmancooh thatNov 21 21:44
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07...Nov 21 21:45
PetoKrausMinceR: i think it means bankruptNov 21 21:47
schestowitzme 2Nov 21 22:05
MinceRicNov 21 22:05
neighborleeboy, really going after poor twitter aren't they ;)Nov 21 22:06
neighborleetwitter, your infamous now ;)(Nov 21 22:06
neighborleeI care..I dont care how many accounts you  may have, its the quality of what you say that matters, that is all.Nov 21 22:06
schestowitzThey witch-hunt him. Very desperate of them...Nov 21 22:07
neighborleeand now roy is a dictator..although all he and some of us have tried to do is show that things aren't as some may seem to indicate, and we usually do it without   colorful adjecrives (sh** types), because foss and its users deserve to know about such things..if we're so bad , they must also include seth@gnome.org for his lunacy in finding all of this a nightmare,,and they must also pesecute RMS for his views, and apparantly debianNov 21 22:09
neighborleedeveloers who see right past all of this as welll ;)Nov 21 22:09
neighborleebtw I did sent seth a email,,ill let you know if he replies.Nov 21 22:10
schestowitzCool, thank you.Nov 21 22:16
neighborleeim asking on #foresight, why mono is there..so far well, not geting very far :)Nov 21 22:33
MinceRforesight sucksNov 21 22:34
MinceRbecause it uses conary, which sucksNov 21 22:34
schestowitzForesight is very heavy on the Momo sideNov 21 22:37
schestowitzAlways been that wayNov 21 22:37
schestowitzSabayon is another hard one.Nov 21 22:37
PetoKraussabayon is ummNov 21 22:38
PetoKrausummm!Nov 21 22:38
MinceRgentoo for lamers? :>Nov 21 22:39
PetoKrausnahNov 21 22:39
PetoKrauslinux for ....Nov 21 22:39
PetoKrausi'm not swearing todayNov 21 22:39
PetoKrausgentoo is like minefieldNov 21 22:40
PetoKrausyesterday I was talking with my friend about their e2fstools messupNov 21 22:40
PetoKrausthat was a funny one :)Nov 21 22:40
PetoKrausbasically, e2fstools was depending on com_err and ss in stable... then they stabilized next version of e2fstools, which needed e2fstools-utils, which conflicted with com_err and ssNov 21 22:42
PetoKrauswhich is alright, if only they did check depencenciesNov 21 22:42
PetoKrausthey didn't update kerberos dependencies, that means, for users with kerberos useflag enabled kerberos didn't workNov 21 22:42
PetoKrausthat means openssl didn't workNov 21 22:42
PetoKrausthat means wget didn't workNov 21 22:42
PetoKrausthat means there was no way portage could fetch new sources ...Nov 21 22:43
PetoKrausboom.Nov 21 22:43
schestowitzCheers!Nov 21 22:44
PetoKrausfunny thing was, unstable wasn't touched by this at allNov 21 22:44
neighborleewhile http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.html?forumID=1&a... < got them to agree something is amiss with novel,,my #foresight conversation was VERY civil, and not once did it descend into colorful adjectives on any levelNov 21 22:45
neighborleeI asked not just for h ere, but for a good friend consdiering foresight..friends matter alot to me ;)Nov 21 22:45
neighborleewe didnt agree,,but it always remained professinal discource,,right on !Nov 21 22:46
neighborlee:)Nov 21 22:46
schestowitzHa! Well, imagine someone asks you to take off a limb one dayNov 21 22:47
schestowitzMono information is well overdue.Nov 21 22:47
neighborlee:)Nov 21 22:47
neighborleebbl , tiny amoutn of work to do..oh the labor of it all <grins>Nov 21 22:48
*ZiggyFish1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 21 22:50
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Mi0Bw75GINov 21 23:09
schestowitz"This video or group may contain content that is inappropriate for some users, as flagged by YouTube's user community."Nov 21 23:23
schestowitzWhat is this, NSFW?Nov 21 23:23
schestowitzIt looks like that man called "ZuneNov 21 23:24
schestowitzWhat a crap filmNov 21 23:24
MinceRgnNov 21 23:26

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