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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 26th, 2008

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schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn... "GreyGeek - Subject: Murphy? ( Nov 25, 2008, 19:33:18 ) The same guy who told us that SCO had a case? "Nov 26 00:01
schestowitzHey, tacone Nov 26 00:01
tacone? you remember me ? :)Nov 26 00:01
taconei have been very little in this channel ;-)Nov 26 00:02
PetoKrausright, i'm gonna make me a short dinner, and then GNNov 26 00:02
PetoKraus*smallNov 26 00:02
taconeschestowitz: i see you wrote about italyNov 26 00:03
taconedo you know about the universities microsoft deal ?Nov 26 00:03
schestowitzYesNov 26 00:03
schestowitzThere are some things going on there.Nov 26 00:03
schestowitztacone: yes, I remember you. Where have you been for months?Nov 26 00:03
schestowitzPetoKraus: I'll be here. I'll be done soon too... short days :-( :-(Nov 26 00:04
PetoKraus:DNov 26 00:04
taconei am not a regular reader or channel hang-outerNov 26 00:04
schestowitzSlovakia has longer datysNov 26 00:04
schestowitztacone: what about the universities?Nov 26 00:04
taconemicrosoft helped with x millions, to help italian government to open 2-3 MS research centers in some universitiesNov 26 00:04
schestowitzI wrote abou the government todayNov 26 00:04
taconethe most part will be paid by the governement, by the wayNov 26 00:05
schestowitzRoberto G also writes about the Italian universities.Nov 26 00:05
taconeguess what, the code won't be open.Nov 26 00:05
schestowitzAre there articles about it?Nov 26 00:05
schestowitzOr something that can be translated?Nov 26 00:05
taconeapparently, in Piemonte they promised to make code public (i wouldn't bet my ass though). in trento we're are still waiting for an answer, that won't come.Nov 26 00:06
schestowitzIt's the same in France, but there have serious disaster there: SarkonismNov 26 00:06
taconei can search something for you nowNov 26 00:06
schestowitztacone: it's not a matter of code availability thoygh.Nov 26 00:06
schestowitzCorporations must not taint public institutions like academiaNov 26 00:06
taconepatents, you mean ?Nov 26 00:06
schestowitzMicrosoft should butt out. It's doing this everywhere because some sellout take the moneyNov 26 00:07
schestowitzWhat are patents? :-) Pieces of useless paper. Show me the code.Nov 26 00:07
kevin_the school i went to allowed us to download windows 98-vistNov 26 00:07
kevin_the school i went to allowed us to download windows 98-vistaNov 26 00:07
schestowitzLinus Torvalds: "Talk is cheap. Show me the code."Nov 26 00:07
taconethat's the bad side. they don't only retain the copyright on the code. patents allow them to annoy you even if you re-write from scratchNov 26 00:08
schestowitzkevin_: there's probably one of these illegal licences there.Nov 26 00:08
taconeno sw patents, here, for the moment, though.Nov 26 00:08
kevin_no... it was the msdnaaNov 26 00:08
schestowitzIn Norway they fought successfully against this 'all compus' licences that are anti-compeittive.Nov 26 00:08
kevin_we were dling directly from msNov 26 00:08
schestowitzLinpro is their name, IIRCNov 26 00:08
schestowitztacone: can you get me names of universities that do this?Nov 26 00:09
kevin_but i read the TOS once and it said something about "nothing you produce with this software can be used for financial gain" at which point i said forget itNov 26 00:09
taconeUniversity of trento is one.Nov 26 00:09
schestowitzEven articles in Italian as proof would be valuable.Nov 26 00:09
taconeschestowitz: i am searching the articlesNov 26 00:09
schestowitzI can chain this to other Microsoft shenanigans in ItalyNov 26 00:09
schestowitzThanks./Nov 26 00:09
kevin_even thugh i have no intention of creating content and charging for it on the PC i disagree with that on principal and thus avoid using itNov 26 00:10
schestowitzWe have good indexed for many countries already... Portugal and Brazil for instance.Nov 26 00:10
taconeschestowitz: we shall make a map of microsoft corruption around the worldNov 26 00:11
schestowitzre: OOXML Italy: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/26/ooxm...Nov 26 00:11
schestowitzNice one, tacone Nov 26 00:11
kevin_it would look like one of those power grid things :)Nov 26 00:11
taconeone of those red/green color maps ;-)Nov 26 00:11
kevin_little blips everywhereNov 26 00:11
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Amusement/...Nov 26 00:12
schestowitzBlame Brad for that cake.. http://schestowitz.com/Amusement/images/...Nov 26 00:13
taconethis was about the deal, but i think tuscany is not right. it's trento http://punto-informatico.it/1977688/PI/News/gove...Nov 26 00:14
taconei am looking for better things anywayNov 26 00:14
taconeok, worse. 3 centers in 3 regions, and yet another one (in Trento)Nov 26 00:16
taconehttp://www.annozero.org/%C2%ABdato-che-i-soldi-sara...Nov 26 00:16
schestowitzThanks.Nov 26 00:17
taconethere are nice links departing from that articleNov 26 00:17
schestowitzI'll organise these links. Can you explain what each shows?Nov 26 00:18
taconebut i guess it's difficult for a non-italian speakerNov 26 00:18
schestowitzBN has almost 5000 posts. Later we build indexes to show abuses.Nov 26 00:18
schestowitzSomeone has already volunteered to do ths.Nov 26 00:18
schestowitzOn France: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/27/...Nov 26 00:19
schestowitzThere are many more, but they are scattered.Nov 26 00:19
schestowitzI also have lots in something like 60,000 posts and citations I've collected over the years.Nov 26 00:19
taconei am still searching for better articlesNov 26 00:22
schestowitzOT: Greed murders.... < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technol... >Nov 26 00:25
kevin_i'm sitting here playing doom 2Nov 26 00:30
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schestowitzMaritz doesn't mention Microsoft... weird... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oBZ1gdzdwTgNov 26 00:39
taconeschestowitz: http://pastebin.com/m358d353bNov 26 00:40
kevin_wasn't there a 40-50 minute video that explains the whole novell/ms thing?Nov 26 00:40
taconeit's not really a translation, just some things explained in the articleNov 26 00:40
taconeschestowitz: can you briefly read it and see if everything is clear to you ?Nov 26 00:40
schestowitzkevin_: the press conference?Nov 26 00:45
schestowitztacone: that's brilliant. I've just looked at it.Nov 26 00:46
schestowitzGive me 1-2 days and I'll do a post.Nov 26 00:46
schestowitzDo you want attribution? Name/URL?Nov 26 00:46
taconeno hurry, it's not a recent newsNov 26 00:46
taconethey are still fighting.Nov 26 00:46
taconei don't need attribution, thx anyway :)Nov 26 00:46
schestowitzI'll add links about FOSS in Italy. I have manyNov 26 00:47
taconeannozero.org is a nice oneNov 26 00:47
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schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-101... Novell=dishonesty. This just comes to show that Novell is lying quite a lot (this is part of a pattern).Nov 26 01:13
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schestowitz*sigh* More of the Mac fanboism and dual-licensing from Alfresco... they don't comply with OSI... I think it's 'diluting' the things too much. I talked to MySQL's CEO about this at the time because it's calling for characterization of F/OSS as "freeware" or "trial-version-ware." it's not good for anyone.Nov 26 01:30
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twitterI decided to document G.Michael's off topic trolling on BN.  Here's the result, http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/25/j...Nov 26 02:14
twitterI'm sorry the guy is such a drag on the comments.  He never contributes anything and his crap gets in the way of intelligent communication.  I recommend you auto flag the loser's IP.Nov 26 02:15
schestowitzHehe. Excellent. It's out of the moderation queue now.Nov 26 02:16
twitterStuff like that is one of the reasons the Slashdot trolls really hate me.Nov 26 02:16
schestowitzI've flagged the comment for future refNov 26 02:18
schestowitzhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/...Nov 26 02:36
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levanderI'm in a flame war with an Ars Technica writer right now.  Can someone give me a link to an article detailing patent concerns with Mono so I don't have to go to the trouble of spelling it out for him myself?Nov 26 07:21
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schestowitzHi, levander. Are you still there?Nov 26 08:48
MinceRgeekingsNov 26 09:06
kentmahiNov 26 09:11
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levander schestowitz: I'm back now...Nov 26 10:38
schestowitzDid you get a URL?Nov 26 10:38
levanderNo, I just wrote around it.  But, if you have one, I'd like to see it.Nov 26 10:38
schestowitzI imagine you argues with Ryan PaulNov 26 10:38
schestowitz*arguedNov 26 10:39
levanderhaNov 26 10:39
schestowitzHe does a lot of Mono boosting.Nov 26 10:39
schestowitzToo muchNov 26 10:39
levanderI hate that guy.Nov 26 10:39
schestowitzHe's not impolite.Nov 26 10:39
levanderschestowitz: In the thread, he actually makes reference to people who don't like Mono being poorly informed conspiracy theorists.Nov 26 10:39
levanderschestowitz: Not normally.  But, I think I get under his skin.Nov 26 10:39
levanderSo, he makes exception for me ;)Nov 26 10:40
schestowitzhaha.Nov 26 10:40
schestowitz"Conspiracy theory"Nov 26 10:40
schestowitzNutters, haters, extremists, cult, loons...etc .. all words for daemonisation of opposition that needn't give any counter arguments.Nov 26 10:41
levanderdirecthex is on that thread quoting ECMA standards.  Like I want to read through some stupid standards compliance document to see if the platform I develop on top of is enumbered by patents.Nov 26 10:41
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/...Nov 26 10:42
levanderschestowitz: Yeah, I make that point exactly.  I say calling people extremists and not looking at their arguments, by making that accusation, your guilty of it.Nov 26 10:42
schestowitzMicrosoft uses the same techniques.Nov 26 10:42
levanderschestowitz: I wish boycottnovell made "statement posts" like that easier to find.  I clicked all over the web site looking for that.Nov 26 10:43
levanderLike, if on the "About page", they had links explaining their positions.Nov 26 10:43
levanderlinks to explaning**Nov 26 10:43
schestowitzWe need a Mono resource pageNov 26 10:44
schestowitzSomeone is working on index pages.... we have one for ODF now... Samba is nextNov 26 10:44
levanderAnd, each position statement article should have links to other people expressing the same opinion.  The more notable those other people the better.  Just makes it easier for people to do research and get the arguments down.  Easier to spread the word.Nov 26 10:44
levanderschestowitz: Cool, so they're already kind of doing what I'm saying?Nov 26 10:44
schestowitzAnother option is using the Google search in the right-hand-side menuNov 26 10:44
levanderschestowitz: I'm telling you.  I used Google search.  Clicked all over the damn place.  Couldn't find something that clearly stated the case.  Just references to the case here and there.Nov 26 10:45
schestowitzIt's him, not they. One of the readers volunteered to help organise the posts. There are almost 5000 of them,Nov 26 10:45
levanderschestowitz: It's not just boycottnovell.  I looked all over for Bruce Peren's definitive article on his position against Mono, nothing...Nov 26 10:45
schestowitzMaybe they managed to push it out of viewNov 26 10:46
schestowitzThere's also another one... wait..Nov 26 10:46
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/2... (out of date though)Nov 26 10:46
levanderschestowitz: I don't think it's a matter of organizing the posts.  And, I'd think this would be more important than him making new posts.  It's have a clearly visible link on the home page to a place where important positions are laid out.Nov 26 10:47
levanderschestowitz: You know, what I'm talking about.  I may be saying boycottnovell needs a wiki.  Although, you could do it without a wiki.Nov 26 10:47
levanderschestowitz: I definitely understand limited resources.Nov 26 10:47
levanderIt is a very nice web site for just one guy.Nov 26 10:47
levanderschestowitz: But, you see what I'm saying that nobody on the internet, not just Novell, seems to make their "position papers" readily available enough?Nov 26 10:48
schestowitzEven static resource pages need updatingNov 26 10:48
levanderschestowitz: I need to write something myself once I get my blog up.  It's be like my position paper on the importance of position papers.Nov 26 10:48
schestowitzThat would be useful.Nov 26 10:48
levanderschestowitz: Yeah, but it just seems like position papers would be the most useful thing on the entire web site.  Why have all this other stuff without position papers (that would need periodic updating)?Nov 26 10:49
levanderschestowitz: I'm about to start working on getting my own little bliki up and running.  First thing I'm gonna do is put a few logos up representing causes I believe in.  Stuff like FairTax, Free Software, few others...Nov 26 10:50
levanderThen you click on the logo, you get to my position paper...Nov 26 10:50
levanderAnyway, what's the guys name who runs boycottnovell?  Is he ever in here?  Maybe I'll try harassing him about re-ordering his priorities, see what he thinks.Nov 26 10:51
schestowitzlevander: most readers are on RSSNov 26 10:51
schestowitzit's a news site, not just a brochure siteNov 26 10:51
schestowitzNow... I realise that we need pages like Groklaw's... people suggested it and someone is looking into it.Nov 26 10:52
levanderI bet introducing some "brochure" aspect would help bring new people in.  New people come in and they have to click everywhere to find out what's going on.Nov 26 10:52
levanderWhat is Groklaw's?Nov 26 10:52
schestowitzboycottnovell is no "guy"... it's me and Shane... and Shane is with the family now.Nov 26 10:53
levanderOh cool.  So my job of harassing the founders of the site is already done!Nov 26 10:53
schestowitzWhen I come to sites, I arrive at posts.Nov 26 10:53
schestowitzI hardly explore laterally.Nov 26 10:53
levanderWhat do you mean laterally?Nov 26 10:53
schestowitzchecking pages other than the deep one I'm inNov 26 10:54
schestowitzMost pageviews are from subscribers.Nov 26 10:54
schestowitzLike 80%Nov 26 10:54
levanderschestowitz: Well, maybe you'd get more pageviews from people who weren't subscribers if you had a design accomodating them?  And, then maybe these more new people would become subscribers?Nov 26 10:54
levanderI'm not suggesting redesigning the site.  I'm suggesting like a page that links to a few different pages that explain positions.Nov 26 10:55
levanderschestowitz: Think of me in the middle of a debate, a debate that everyone should already know the point I'm making, but they don't.  I need a resource to go to.Nov 26 10:56
levanderAnd, to me, that's really the whole way you get the word out, you run around talking to people.  Tell them what's going on.Nov 26 10:56
levanderIf you don't have a place they can go and easily see what you're talking about, you've really lost a big opportunity.Nov 26 10:56
schestowitzWe have tag pagesNov 26 10:57
schestowitzThe issue is that new items appear firstNov 26 10:57
schestowitzThat's why we make index pagesNov 26 10:57
levanderschestowitz: As a suggestion maybe, just have a sidebar box called "Positions" or something, and it links to a few positions.Nov 26 10:58
levanderI wouldn't change from being a news site.Nov 26 10:58
levanderschestowitz: Where are these index pages?  Maybe I just missed them.Nov 26 10:58
schestowitz"ODF resources"Nov 26 10:58
levanderschestowitz: I'm not trying to tear down your site.  I think you do a great job and it's a noble cause.  I'm just making suggestions.Nov 26 10:58
levanderYeah, that ODF resources page is kind of what I'm talking about.  But, it's a list of various posts.  The only thing I'm trying to bring up is I think it'd make it a lot easier to get the word out if there were simply a list of papers that were as short as reasonable that defined what the ideas are.Nov 26 11:00
schestowitzI think that exists elsewhere.Nov 26 11:01
schestowitzWe don't (well, I don't) do whitepapers... takes too longNov 26 11:01
levanderSo, maybe the only issue I have is it isn't easy enough to find from the home page?Nov 26 11:01
levanderschestowitz: Yeah, resources are an issue.Nov 26 11:01
levanderWhat were you saying about Groklaw earlier?Nov 26 11:02
schestowitzTrue.Nov 26 11:05
schestowitzWell, homepage is viewed many times.Nov 26 11:05
schestowitzI'm not sure what people look for in there.Nov 26 11:06
schestowitzI think many people who don't use RSS just read the latest posts there.Nov 26 11:06
levanderschestowitz: They use the web site the way you've designed it.  People who it's poorly designed for probably just don't use it.Nov 26 11:07
levanderAt one point I thought I had you on this idea, but now it seems I've really lost you...Nov 26 11:07
schestowitzNo, no... I'm taking the suggestions.Nov 26 11:08
schestowitzThat's why I intend to build indexes.Nov 26 11:08
schestowitzWriting resources from scratch though is too great a task.Nov 26 11:08
schestowitzAnd it /ages/... explanations must evolve.Nov 26 11:08
levanderIt's cool.  I wouldn't throw out real life to get it done either... I'd just take my time too.Nov 26 11:08
schestowitzAlso...Nov 26 11:09
schestowitzBy linking back extensively to old posts people can find a trail that draw complete pictures.Nov 26 11:09
levanderschestowitz: Maybe just a blurb and a link pointing to where someone has said something you agree with would be plenty?Nov 26 11:09
schestowitzThat's what most posts compriseNov 26 11:10
schestowitzGosh...Nov 26 11:10
schestowitzI'm watching Charlie Rose at the same time and boy he was rude..Nov 26 11:10
levanderPersonaly, I wouldn't want to follow a trail.  I'd personally rather see it clearly defined in one article.  Then you can go looking around for more detail to disagree or whatever if you want...Nov 26 11:10
schestowitzVery unusual.... I'd unsubscribe from his channel.Nov 26 11:10
levanderCharlie Rose?Nov 26 11:11
levanderHe doesn't have a channel.Nov 26 11:11
schestowitzIn YouTube.Nov 26 11:11
schestowitzI don't use TV anymore..Nov 26 11:11
levanderlinkNov 26 11:11
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/user/CharlieRoseNov 26 11:11
levanderI wonder why Charlie Rose made his channel on UK Youtube?  He's an American.  His show is in America.Nov 26 11:12
schestowitzNo, it's localised to meNov 26 11:13
levanderYou know I've heard about people complaining about Charlie Rose being rude in the past.  You look into it further, and what people have to understand is that he's doing something like "real time editing".  He's trying to make sure people don't go on about stuff that's not the point.Nov 26 11:13
schestowitzAll the YouTube stuff is redirected to me.Nov 26 11:13
levanderOh, so it's not a UK channel then?  It's just redirected through the UK web site?Nov 26 11:14
schestowitzYes, true.Nov 26 11:14
schestowitzYesNov 26 11:14
levanderI'm going to bed.  I'm tired of trying to hit you over the head with position papers...Nov 26 11:14
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EruaranhelloNov 26 12:51
trmancohiNov 26 12:52
schestowitzHeyNov 26 12:53
schestowitzI've just redone the front page of BNNov 26 12:53
Eruaranah yes I seeNov 26 12:53
EruaranYou might want to watch this channelNov 26 12:53
Eruaranhttp://au.youtube.com/watch?v=...Nov 26 12:54
EruaranThis guy is shilling hardNov 26 12:54
EruaranI think I've seen a second person blocked by this guyNov 26 12:54
Eruaran( and the video is funny btw )Nov 26 12:55
EruaranThis audience were either very happy with their gifts from Microsoft or they are very easily impressedNov 26 12:56
EruaranI'm toying with the idea of taking the sound from this video and putting it together with video of someone doing similar things on a KDE desktop... Like that guy did ages ago with the voice over on Vista while showing a Mac desktop.Nov 26 12:58
EruaranThese people really don't realise how much they suck.Nov 26 12:58
schestowitzIt's a drone invite-onlyNov 26 13:00
schestowitzThey designed it such that it looks well received. Like the naked emperor.Nov 26 13:00
EruaranyepNov 26 13:01
schestowitzWe need KDE4 screencasts, but...Nov 26 13:05
EruaranWell, I installed kdenlive for the first time ever...Nov 26 13:06
schestowitzThere need to be noise in the background... like girls screaming and people giving ovations.  Kind of like 'yes men'... follow the flockNov 26 13:06
Eruaranhaha yesNov 26 13:06
schestowitzIt's down to marleting.Nov 26 13:07
schestowitzApple does several things:Nov 26 13:07
schestowitz1) it packages the software ONLY under high-end hardware and sharp screensNov 26 13:07
schestowitzYou can't find OS X running on some old crappy CRTNov 26 13:07
schestowitzThis controls perception.Nov 26 13:07
schestowitz2) They have special rules for presenting products. You can just do as you wish.Nov 26 13:08
schestowitz3) They choose just one well-doctored theme and make it super-hard to change, so there's visual identity and you rarely see 'ugly' Macs. The same goes for hardware. Limited, elitist selections..Nov 26 13:08
EruaranOur group was talking with Apple at one stage.Nov 26 13:11
EruaranCompany directors didn't like Apples terms.Nov 26 13:11
EruaranI'm short on details but I'm under the impression we may have lost a lot of independance.Nov 26 13:12
schestowitzUse the money more ffectively.Nov 26 13:13
schestowitzGet Apple 'level' hardware and put Mandriva or something on it.Nov 26 13:13
schestowitzYou can achieve with GNU/Linux things you can't imagine in LeopardNov 26 13:14
schestowitzBut... but... there's no marketing and leaping Jov.Nov 26 13:14
EruaranIt was quite a few months ago now that the whole thing fell through... Our directors were clearly uncomfortable with the deal and pulled out of it.Nov 26 13:15
schestowitzHarvesting dangers.. British Gover[n]ment Loses A Computer A Week, But What About The Data? < http://techdirt.com/articles/2008... >Nov 26 13:16
schestowitzApple are none to do deals with...Nov 26 13:16
schestowitzFrom the news yesterday: http://www.pcworld.com/article/1544...Nov 26 13:17
schestowitz"Apple Levels DMCA on IPodhash Project [...] The worst thing about DRM? The things it makes people do. Take the iPodhash project, a group of coders dedicated to reverse-engineering Apple’s database files on the iPod classic and iPod touch. Doing so allows for third-party utilities to access information on the iPod, which is particularly useful for those who want to use their iPods on Linux, since there’s no version of iTunes avNov 26 13:17
schestowitzailable for that platform."Nov 26 13:17
EruaranI'll be quite happy if iTunes is never available for LinuxNov 26 13:18
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com.pt/site... "Mas Roy Schestowitz, escritor freelancer e co-editor do sítio Boycott Novell (que foi criado em protesto contra a parceria), argumenta que o resultado do acordo não foi tão positivo como ambos os fabricantes defendem. “A Novell perdeu a confiança da comunidade, e a sua quota de mercado caiu consideravelmente face a concorrentes que não embarcaram em acordos do géneNov 26 13:18
schestowitzro”, afirma."Nov 26 13:18
schestowitzhttp://translate.google.com/translate?source...Nov 26 13:19
schestowitzEruaran: people should just stop buying Apple stuff.Nov 26 13:19
EruaranThat too...Nov 26 13:19
schestowitzbased not on it being a large company but based on its policies on tech (DRM and all)Nov 26 13:20
schestowitzOnly this way we can save people's control of their own devices, PCs, and... well, modern life..Nov 26 13:20
schestowitzA bigger issue is control at ISP level... http://techdirt.com/articles/20081123...Nov 26 13:21
schestowitz"Is it really so hard to allow open discussion on such a topic? If BT believes that it’s reasonable to use the technology, then why not explain why clearly, responding to the critics? The only reason to erase these discussions is if BT knows that what’s it’s doing is highly questionable, and BT would rather not have to explain itself"Nov 26 13:21
EruaranApple's tight control over iTunes and its devices is actually at odds with fair use rights under Australian law.Nov 26 13:21
Eruaran*Australian copyright lawNov 26 13:22
schestowitzSame in Scandinavia.Nov 26 13:23
schestowitzWell, that of interoperability mostly. But in non-fascistic countries Apple is already under fireNov 26 13:23
schestowitzWhat a bunch of Gartner bull from IDC (IDG): Indians See Mobile Phones as a Necessity in Economic Crisis < http://www.pcworld.com/article/154540/... >Nov 26 13:25
Eruaran"violates Apple's FairPlay DRM" - heh, FairPlay DRM violates Australian copyright law - if Apple went to court with this in Australia, they'd lose.Nov 26 13:26
schestowitzBTW, if your bosses mention Gartner, show them this new one: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/... (bottom part)Nov 26 13:27
EruaranIts 'fair use' under Australian law for the owner to make backup copies of music for personal useNov 26 13:27
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505...Nov 26 13:27
schestowitz"For example, the summary of Microsoft’s meeting with several Gartner analysts in October of 2006 is fascinating, and made more so by Jamin Spitzer, group manager of Worldwide Analyst Relations at Microsoft, who suggests that two objectives of the meeting with Gartner were to create “confidence in the Vista product, OEM/Retail channel, and device/app compatibility,” as well as “provide Gartner ‘wiggle room’.”Nov 26 13:27
schestowitzNew: EFF Berates Apple Over Open-source ITunes Project < http://www.pcworld.com/article/15453... >Nov 26 13:28
schestowitzApple can get away with evil things because they brainwash people (market also) to the point of being oblivious to rights.Nov 26 13:28
schestowitz"Apple's attempt to quash an effort to help the latest iPods and iPhones work with non-Apple software such as the Linux operating system is out of line, the Electronic Frontier Foundation said Tuesday."Nov 26 13:29
schestowitz"Because iTunes does not run on Linux, the iPodhash project is important to the Linux community, Odio said." Apple should be ashamed of themselves. Someone should inform Neelie KroesNov 26 13:30
schestowitzOr Vivian Reding rather.Nov 26 13:30
EruaranCircumvention is permissable under Australian law if restrictions enforced by the manufacturer of a product block the purchaser of that product from using it in a way that is lawful in Australia.Nov 26 13:31
EruaranApple doesn't have a right to restrict the user from doing what is lawful.Nov 26 13:32
schestowitzWell, but they can suppress projects outside AustraliaNov 26 13:32
EruaranThere is a catchNov 26 13:32
MinceRit isn't lawful where there's WIPONov 26 13:32
EruaranIf you agree to Apples licensing termsNov 26 13:32
EruaranIf you purchase the product and agree to Apples terms, thats a contract.Nov 26 13:33
EruaranSame as agreeing to Microsoft's EULANov 26 13:34
schestowitzNobody reads that/Nov 26 13:35
schestowitzSome people receive the junk as 'part' of the PC or a present (e.g. iPod)Nov 26 13:35
EruaranIt is possible to argue that they are not binding as Australian law takes precedence, and probably you will win... but you'll probably still have to duke it out in court.Nov 26 13:35
schestowitzApple and Microsoft should be trialed for abuse through predatory licensing, esp. where choice is being limited illegally (esp. Microsoft)Nov 26 13:36
schestowitzIT Job Growth Slows -- Hiring on Hold < http://www.pcworld.com/article/154499/it_job... >Nov 26 13:36
schestowitzGoogle's layoff RUMOUR continues to spread.Nov 26 13:36
schestowitzI hear that Microsoft is the same..Nov 26 13:36
schestowitzQuiet small layoffs, but no major announcement, just denials and all........Nov 26 13:36
EruaranWe're upgrading a clients ClarkConnect server tomorrowNov 26 13:37
EruaranThey have encryption up to the eyeballs there... I think even their toilet paper is encrypted ;)Nov 26 13:38
schestowitzSawfish?Nov 26 13:44
Eruaranits mostly windows stuffNov 26 13:45
EruaranI dunno what they're using... I'm just installing ClarkConnect tommorrow and having a play around with their serverNov 26 13:46
Eruaranthe rest will all be onsiteNov 26 13:46
EruaranI'll find out thoughNov 26 13:47
MinceRperhaps at least the ones directly screwed by crApple will decide not to buy crApple products anymore and to spread the wordNov 26 13:56
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schestowitzSome already doNov 26 14:06
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schestowitzBANNED Pres. Bush Interview < http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Fze2J2Ve9i... >Nov 26 14:18
schestowitzRude and insane... interrupting the interviewer, talking about his God...Nov 26 14:22
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schestowitzWTF? "comment - oppose patent reform - it undermines the industrial & technical leadership of the US & encourages off-shoring & patent piracy" http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F...Nov 26 14:25
schestowitzPro-patents propaganda is thrown onto YouTube... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c7h6Z4MlqIc# Who makes this stuff?Nov 26 14:30
EruaranI commented on itNov 26 14:41
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/... "Quantum parks 180 staff"Nov 26 14:53
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schestowitzApple forced to pull misleading UK iPhone ad < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/26... >Nov 26 14:53
schestowitzCisco could use some toppling too: Cisco shares dip after reports of holiday shutdown < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/25... >Nov 26 14:57
schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2... "Seems that the BNP database wasn't hacked from the outside, but that someone on the inside leaked the list."Nov 26 15:00
schestowitzMore pro-patents zealot (fences, fences, fences!): http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?...Nov 26 15:10
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EruaranThis comment from El Reg says it nice and concisely: "MS absolutely cannot grasp that the market wants less OS, not more"Nov 26 15:28
Eruaranhttp://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/10/28/...Nov 26 15:28
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/mobility/busine... "In preparation, Nokia said it would port its Qt cross-application framework to Symbian in a move to attract developers of other platforms."Nov 26 15:28
schestowitzNow we know for a fact what they plan for Qt... SymbiDRM.Nov 26 15:29
EruaranNow that is interesting newsNov 26 15:29
schestowitzOh no..Nov 26 15:29
schestowitzThe Reg review?Nov 26 15:29
schestowitzIs that from Tim?Nov 26 15:29
MinceRi wonder how much money nokia will waste on symbian before admitting defeat.Nov 26 15:30
Eruaranah dunno, I didn't bother reading the reviewNov 26 15:30
EruaranJust the commentsNov 26 15:30
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/...Nov 26 15:30
schestowitzMinceR: it's like Sun with MySQLNov 26 15:30
schestowitzPeople still use MySQL.. on GNU/LinuxNov 26 15:30
MinceRwell, mysql did have _some_ value before sun took over it, didn't it?Nov 26 15:30
schestowitzSymbian bleeds market share... to Apple, Google, LiMo...Nov 26 15:31
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schestowitzFormer Microsoft employees + Mono + Apple = {heart} http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/perm...Nov 26 16:02
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twittergood morning, just catching up with the Apple DMCA story.Nov 26 16:14
twitterit really pisses me off.Nov 26 16:15
twitterEvery time I look for a music player, I'm confronted with an ugly reality of M$ and Apple DRM barbs.Nov 26 16:16
twitterWant to know why there are no Vorbis players?  M$ OEM lock http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10...Nov 26 16:17
twitterI have an older Trekstor that works with ogg and is nice and small but it's random play is just another ordered list and the controls are somewhat clumsy.Nov 26 16:20
twitteriPod, of course, is out of the question for stunts like thisNov 26 16:20
twitterI'll only consider RockBox compatible units and buy one used.Nov 26 16:21
twitterhttp://www.rockbox.org/Nov 26 16:21
twittercool, a recent article http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/25/ro...Nov 26 16:22
twitterby Cory no less.Nov 26 16:22
schestowitzFor a while some years ago I thought Rockbox was Linux-basedNov 26 16:25
_doug"The complaining company is not identified in the report"Nov 26 16:30
_dougwho is the complaning company ?Nov 26 16:30
twitterI don't know the guts of it, I just know that it would be better for what I want that iPod's firmware.Nov 26 16:30
_doughttp://www.pcworld.com/article/123146/mi...Nov 26 16:30
twitterIf you believe that, anything is possible.Nov 26 16:33
twitterM$ made it's will more clear in that case than they did in the EEEPC case.Nov 26 16:34
twitterThe world was flooded with poor selling "plays for sure" devices and nary an ogg could be found.  They also crammed the inferior music transfer protocol (MTP) instead of USB mass storage transfer onto many devices, which did not work with GNU/Linux at the time.Nov 26 16:36
twitterWhat's funnier than all of that is that their "Plays for Sure" program was a failure and they created a whole new and incompatible DRM scam for the Zune, which also cratered.Nov 26 16:37
twitterAt the time, iRiver and several other companies were using ogg, then M$ comes out with the exclusive license and everything dried up.Nov 26 16:38
twitterEveryone, including M$, was harmed.Nov 26 16:38
MinceRtwitter: iirc cowon offers players that support ogg vorbis and flacNov 26 16:39
schestowitzYes, they ruined Creative too.Nov 26 16:39
schestowitzI remember iRiver.Nov 26 16:39
schestowitzit's their fault for falling for Fails4SureNov 26 16:40
twitterYes, it was a classic M$ extortion.Nov 26 16:40
twitterI'd expect a lot of companies would be getting out of the M$ rut by now, but M$ still has a desktop threat for them.Nov 26 16:40
twitterApple proved you can do better without M$ in the way, but even they are sabotaged.  iTunes is periodically broken on Vista.Nov 26 16:41
twitterIt's one of the many reasons people don't use Vista at home.Nov 26 16:42
twitterSadly, Apple too is a DRM sellout.Nov 26 16:42
schestowitzApple pretends to resist, Microsoft takes pride in DRMNov 26 16:46
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Omar87schestowitz: HiNov 26 17:02
schestowitzHeyNov 26 17:02
_dougHP hides pricing from open-source competitors ..Nov 26 17:06
_doughttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10107677-...Nov 26 17:06
_dougTiVo announces profits of $100.6 million for third quarter ..Nov 26 17:07
_doughttp://news.cnet.com/8300-1001_3-92.htmlNov 26 17:07
schestowitzClarification in Google workforce: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10...Nov 26 17:09
schestowitzI hear it's the same with Microsoft... contracts and temps make it possible to reduce headcount without layoffs per seNov 26 17:10
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schestowitzAbuse in Wired of the word  "Open"/"Source": Open Source Wi-Fi Service Claims Ten Million Hotspots In Network < http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/20... >Nothing to do with FOSS!!Nov 26 17:12
schestowitzI think I'm gonna have me some open source dinner, get some open source nap and then check my E-mail on an open source network with an open source-ish E-mail accounts...Nov 26 17:12
PetoKrausopensource is just a fkn buzzwordNov 26 17:13
schestowitzWhere can I download the source code to the Wi-Fi access Wired speaks of?Nov 26 17:14
schestowitzPython Shows Continual Growth in Open Source Projects < http://www.zeapartners.org/Members/netsig... >Nov 26 17:15
PetoKraus"As a measure to prevent automated posting by robots, JavaScript is required. Please enable it in your browser's settings and resubmit your comment."Nov 26 17:16
PetoKrausWTF?!?Nov 26 17:16
PetoKrausoh man, that page has even poorer coding practices than mineNov 26 17:17
schestowitzLots of sites do this.Nov 26 17:18
MinceRlolNov 26 17:19
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schestowitzI notice many sites where I could readily and easily leave/read comments.. they move to some JS-based comment syste,m.Nov 26 17:19
MinceRi didn't know browsers could pass the Turing testNov 26 17:19
schestowitzIn some case I thought they had dropped comments, which was weird. Then I enabled JS and voila!Nov 26 17:19
schestowitzMicrosoft's open source shillstrers  (Aras) buy a place under the stars (it's not open source, it's monopolysoft): http://www.mbtmag.com/article/CA661731...Nov 26 17:21
schestowitzOpen source new will gradually be contaminated by Microsoft lockin in disguise (e.g. dotnetnuke) and all sorts of fakers and off-topics...Nov 26 17:22
schestowitzMac apps for F/OSS wannabes:  http://news.softpedia.com/news/Seven-Free...Nov 26 17:24
trmancoSun promoting Exchange http://pt.sun.com/practice/solutions/sm...Nov 26 17:28
schestowitzMore abuse of the term "open source": http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/11/23/zoy...Nov 26 17:32
schestowitztrmanco: what dos it say? Is it new?Nov 26 17:32
trmancoI received an email from Sun, and it pointed me to that linkNov 26 17:33
trmancoIn a nutshell, it says you can implement Exchange 2007 on Sun super fast serversNov 26 17:33
trmancoSun'sNov 26 17:34
schestowitzNice story: http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/23...Nov 26 17:35
schestowitzAsay et al: Mac users, OSI ignorers, fork-hostile (yet self proclaimed open source fans and on OSI Board):  http://ask.slashdot.org/ask... Blech. I won't recommend Alfresco anymor.eNov 26 17:36
schestowitztrmanco: Sun does Windows servers too. It's not news. It's ugly, but not new. :-)Nov 26 17:37
trmancowell, they could at least promote other software then Monopolysoft's softwareNov 26 17:38
schestowitzYes.Nov 26 17:38
trmancobblNov 26 17:51
*trmanco is going to study mathNov 26 17:51
twitterDell sucks down the Azure KoolAid, http://www.on-demandenterprise.com/offthewire/D...Nov 26 18:02
twitterI would not base anything on a Slashdot slam like that.  Alfresco has GPL'd code.  I don't like the "Enterprise version" business model because it's really a non free model with a give away version.  The question to ask is what direction the company is moving.Nov 26 18:07
twitterIf they are moving from free to non free, they should be ignored, but encouraged to go the other way.Nov 26 18:08
schestowitzYes, I didn't see a rebuttal.Nov 26 18:10
twitterIf Alfresco has a company policy of GPLing all of their code in time, I don't see a big problem with them doing what they do.Nov 26 18:12
twitterOf course, I don't really know what they do.  Sadly, I don't expect to find out in Slashdot's comments.Nov 26 18:13
PetoKrausschestowitz: you are pretty quiet todayNov 26 18:16
PetoKraus3 posts...Nov 26 18:16
schestowitzYes, I know.Nov 26 18:33
schestowitzI'll catch up in a momentNov 26 18:33
schestowitzhttp://www.daniweb.com/blogs/ent... "> He says so many negative, nasty, and acrid things about Linux that there is only one possible answer: Steve Ballmer Loves Linux."Nov 26 18:35
schestowitzVery weird post from Ken Hess ("Steve Ballmer Loves Linux"). He recently wrote some kind of "hire me, Microsoft" article.Nov 26 18:36
_dougschest: reset packets and ISPS ..Nov 26 18:48
_doughttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200711...Nov 26 18:49
_dougI have noticed a lot of dropped packets (Wireshark)Nov 26 18:49
_dougThis directly at the router ..Nov 26 18:50
schestowitzThis is from last yearNov 26 18:51
schestowitzIs the site being 'managed'?Nov 26 18:51
_doug?Nov 26 18:52
schestowitzIs BN 'paced' by routers?Nov 26 18:52
_dougI don't think so I was refering to peer-to-peer services ..Nov 26 18:53
schestowitzPetoKraus: I'm doing some posts now.Nov 26 19:00
PetoKraus:) goodNov 26 19:00
schestowitz_doug: peer is a scary word to the MAFIAANov 26 19:01
schestowitzThey love consumer-producer, not "peer"Nov 26 19:01
schestowitz1 person delivers to one millionNov 26 19:01
schestowitzNot 1000-to-1000Nov 26 19:01
*PetoKraus np: Alex Brandon - Deus Ex Main Title (Deus Ex Soundtrack)Nov 26 19:03
PetoKrausone of the games which actually got it right.Nov 26 19:03
PetoKrausi mean, how does the world work like, and everythingNov 26 19:03
PetoKrausfkn illuminati :PNov 26 19:04
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yuhongBTW, on the Windows parts of Boycott Novell.Nov 26 20:17
twitterYou asked me about Slashdot user Ed Avis a couple of days ago.  He's subtle, but I just added him to the troll zoo, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/204737Nov 26 20:18
twitteryuhong, what Windows parts?Nov 26 20:18
yuhongThe amount of processes running and memory used on both Windows and Linux depends on what components are installed.Nov 26 20:18
yuhongFor example, a command-line only system will take less memory than a GUI system.Nov 26 20:19
yuhongAnd that is true on both Windows and Linux.Nov 26 20:19
twitterA non free system wastes effort with duplicate libraries and DRM that is not found on free software.Nov 26 20:19
schestowitzAvis... needs evidenceNov 26 20:19
schestowitzAssume tyhe reader saw nothing.Nov 26 20:20
twitterEvidence has been collected, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/218245Nov 26 20:20
twitterIt took an hour or two.Nov 26 20:20
twitterNasty workNov 26 20:20
*schestowitz looksNov 26 20:20
yuhongI read blog posts on Windows 7 on your blog, and I just wanted to say this.Nov 26 20:21
twitteryuhong, for any given task, free software is usually more efficient.Nov 26 20:21
schestowitz*LOL* priceless.Nov 26 20:21
twitterKennedy did some good benchmarking of Windows 7.Nov 26 20:22
schestowitzyuhong: I already know you're a Microsoft apologist. That's fine.Nov 26 20:22
twitterIt's basically Vista and it sucks.Nov 26 20:22
yuhongThe amount of processes running and memory used on both Windows and Linux depends on what components are installed.Nov 26 20:22
yuhongFor example, a command-line only system will take less memory than a GUI system.Nov 26 20:22
yuhongAnd that is true on both Windows and Linux.Nov 26 20:22
schestowitzFine, yuhong. Are you paid for this?Nov 26 20:22
yuhongNo, and in fact I admit that free software provide more freedom.Nov 26 20:23
twitterSee here for how Windows 7 sucks, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/j...Nov 26 20:23
schestowitztwitter: I'm suspicious about yuhong Nov 26 20:23
schestowitzHe comes to BN and also Roughly Drafted only to defend Microsoft. He lives in Seattle.Nov 26 20:23
twitterI remember the name.Nov 26 20:24
yuhongI once saw a demo of Windows 7 on a netbook, and I suspect that it was trimmed down.Nov 26 20:24
twitterWhy are you interested when you could just use free software and have a better result?Nov 26 20:24
yuhongBecause the issue at hand here is technical, not related to freedom.Nov 26 20:25
twitterWhat issue?  Windows 7 and Vista fail both freedom and performance.Nov 26 20:26
yuhongThe issue of trimming it down.Nov 26 20:26
yuhongI admit that all versions of Windows certainly fails freedom.Nov 26 20:26
twitterThey can trim it all the way back to XP and it still sucks.Nov 26 20:26
yuhongIn freedom.Nov 26 20:27
twitterIn performance and features too.Nov 26 20:27
yuhongI don't think so.Nov 26 20:27
yuhongFeatures, well, you always lose features when you trimmed it down.Nov 26 20:27
twitterThe first EEE PC is a good example.  It required an extra 4GB SD card just to fit the OS and some basic programs that did not match the Xandros feature set.Nov 26 20:28
twitterPerformance also lagged.Nov 26 20:28
twitterSpeed, security, UI comfort all sucked.Nov 26 20:28
yuhongWindows XP was not componented very well.Nov 26 20:29
twitterWindows never is.Nov 26 20:29
yuhongWindows 7 will be better componented than XP, I think.Nov 26 20:29
yuhongAnyway, bye.Nov 26 20:30
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yuhongBTW, I actually live in Shoreline, Washington.Nov 26 20:40
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schestowitztwitter: let's not feed him. I got his spiel after a while. He's here to advertise Windows. He does it in other sites too.Nov 26 20:42
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schestowitzMySociety puts e-democracy up for sale < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... >Nov 26 21:33
schestowitz"Happy Thanksgiving holiday, United States. Here's your first helping of holiday terrorist panic."< http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/2... >Nov 26 21:34
trmancoanybody have a cool quote for an email sig?Nov 26 21:37
schestowitzRumors Swirl About Google CEO Exit < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20... >Nov 26 21:38
schestowitztrmanco: I have manyNov 26 21:38
trmancoschestowitz, do you mind posting your best one here? I'll put it in my email signature :-PNov 26 21:40
schestowitzNew Microsoft layoffs.Nov 26 21:40
schestowitzHold on while I blog it.Nov 26 21:40
trmancothanksNov 26 21:43
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/20...Nov 26 21:53
schestowitzMy Skype footprint at the moment is this (because of the situation in the world): "Strive not to be a man of success, but rather strive to be a man of value.” --Albert EinsteinNov 26 21:54
trmancohttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3...Nov 26 21:59
schestowitz*LOL*Nov 26 22:01
schestowitzPut Windows on a separate poster.Nov 26 22:01
trmancoUbuntu and MAC are the sameNov 26 22:01
MinceR:)Nov 26 22:01
MinceRubuntu has more optionsNov 26 22:01
trmancothe Ubuntu Windows is just bigger that is all :-PNov 26 22:01
schestowitzFun buttonsNov 26 22:01
trmancowindow*Nov 26 22:01
trmancoyeahNov 26 22:01
schestowitzThe 'make you feel like you're in control' dropdownNov 26 22:01
MinceRisn't that 802.11x?Nov 26 22:02
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schestowitzIn a matter of hours, PC World posted 3 items of the same news about Apple (ban): http://www.pcworld.com/article/... http://www.pcworld.com/article/154563/.html?tk=rss_news http://www.pcworld.com/article/154566/.html?tk=rss_newsNov 26 22:28
schestowitzMidori is cool (not Microsoft's vapourware): http://fosswire.com/2008/11/24/midori-a-l... (Midori - a Lightweight WebKit Browser for Linux)Nov 26 23:09
GoblinRFDHello all.....Nov 26 23:22
schestowitzHey, GoblinRFD Nov 26 23:22
schestowitzLots of good news recently.Nov 26 23:22
GoblinRFDYeah Ive been reading (although Ive been distracted with a nasty little BT project Im working on)I dont suppose anyone has any experience of bittorrent coding?Nov 26 23:23
schestowitzThrottling?Nov 26 23:24
schestowitzOne of the regulars in this channel is a BT execNov 26 23:24
GoblinRFDnah, the problem I have is that I have connected to a swarm, the code keeps hanging the system.Nov 26 23:26
GoblinRFDI cant understand whyNov 26 23:26
GoblinRFDoh hang on.Nov 26 23:27
schestowitzHaha. This is good: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary...Nov 26 23:27
GoblinRFDUnknown host?Nov 26 23:27
GoblinRFDah it worksNov 26 23:28
GoblinRFDA similar thought occurred to me when our 3month old had to go for a scan.  We could not feed him three hours prior, which I couldnt understand since they were looking at his heart with ultrasound....Nov 26 23:30
GoblinRFDYeah....problem solved....Nov 26 23:32
schestowitzAsking people to fast is 'cheap'Nov 26 23:32
schestowitzIt's like asking people to fill out forms on health issues before using a gym, even it's a one-time thing (hotel)Nov 26 23:32
GoblinRFDyep.  Tragically enough (speaking as an unfit person) all the people I have known that have dropped down dead suddenly were all healthy gym users.Nov 26 23:33
GoblinRFDthe chunkies like me seem to go on for ever.Nov 26 23:34
*kapipi (n=chatzill@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 23:34
schestowitzPeople? You knew not just one to whom this happened?Nov 26 23:37
schestowitzHeh. This guy just added me to his blogroll. :-)) http://steamingopencup.blogspot.com/2008...Nov 26 23:38
GoblinRFDYeah. Three.Nov 26 23:39
GoblinRFDOne had a heart attack cyclingNov 26 23:39
GoblinRFDone was driving to work.Nov 26 23:39
GoblinRFDand the other was a runner (who I didnt know) who collapsed in front of me on the street.Nov 26 23:40
schestowitz*gasp*Nov 26 23:40
GoblinRFDI hope you are not a gym user Roy....otherwise you probably shouldnt be talking to me.Nov 26 23:40
schestowitzWel...Nov 26 23:40
GoblinRFDIm probably jinxedNov 26 23:40
schestowitzI only heard of one incident... a friend attended but he worked in an ambulance, so...Nov 26 23:41
GoblinRFDIronically enough, Ive had a defib course, and am trained to use the machines, unfortunately unlike the US, the machines are not as readilly available here.Nov 26 23:42
GoblinRFDapparently they are everywhere in the USNov 26 23:42
schestowitzI need to update the shilldex over the weekend. Too many turncoat pseudo-journos are appearing again.Nov 26 23:50
MinceRgnNov 26 23:51
schestowitzHeh. They've restored normal desktop without folderview: http://kde.org/announcements/announ...Nov 26 23:53
schestowitz*sigh* People are still saying that security is just a  matter of market share. That assumption about makert share is not correct. GNU/Linux power many of the world's servers, yet they don't suffer much, do they?Nov 26 23:56

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

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Over at Tux Machines...
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